Internal Security Watch

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Rahul Mehta
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rahul Mehta » 20 Apr 2009 09:08

Viv Sreenivasan wrote:With regard to naxals India has to take a composite approach. Fighting them will not be enough. We have to deal with the underlying cause of the symptoms of naxalism. This include things like poverty, discrimination and ignorance by government machinery. Many of these naxals are adavasis or tribals and we have to aknowledge the fact that they have been given very short thrift by the indian state. This is to no way excuse their actions but if India wants to be rid of this problem it needs to address underlying concerns.


Sreenivasan,

IYO, one reason for naxalism is poverty. But most people here believe that poverty has decreased throughout rank and file of Indian population since 1991. So why has naxalism increased since 1991? Or do you actually believe that poverty has increased in some part of Indian population since 1991?

Also, why do you think state ( state = neta, babu, judges, IPS) is giving raw drift to tribals? The Supreme Court judges seems to be very determined to reduce atrocities and all Ministers, IAS, IPS and junior judges come under SCjs, and SCjs have powers to expel any IAS, IPS, Minister, judge who is committing atrocities on tribals. So why is Indian "state" IYO committing atrocities on tribals?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Dilbu » 20 Apr 2009 14:14

Militants 'ban' private hospitals in Manipur
Imphal , April 18 Private hospitals and clinics at Manipur capital complex here have stopped functioning following a militant"ban".

The outlawed militant outfit Kangleipak Communist Party-Military Council (KCP-MC) in a statement yesterday said they have"banned"private hospitals and clinics from functioning since April 12 as they were taking"exorbitant"amounts from patients.

Meanwhile, the private hospitals have stopped admitting new patients. Patients who were undergoing treatment there had either been shifted to government hospitals or they themselves had voluntarily left the place.

Government doctors were working at private hospitals and private clinics for more money and poor people were getting inadequate treatment at government hospitals, it said.

However, police said, KCP-MC has imposed the restriction as the hospitals had refused to pay the money demanded by the outfit. (what does that mean?)

WTF?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 20 Apr 2009 16:55

However, police said, KCP-MC has imposed the restriction as the hospitals had refused to pay the money demanded by the outfit.

In Manipur, even the bureaucrats pay "tax" to the militants to ensure no attacks on them...

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Apr 2009 18:06

COngress upto dirty tricks, Notice how this information has been blacked out by certain News Channels in India. We also still Dont who planned and carried out the Godhra train Carnage and why?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Salman-in-dock-for-damaging-idol/articleshow/4425206.cms


Complaint against Salman for damaging Krishna idol


the Congress candidate Satyajjt Gaekwad, leader of the opposition Congress in Vadodara Municipal Corporation Chirag Zaveri and others for damaging the idol of Lord Krishna during the road show conducted by them in the Uma Char Rasta and Waghodiya road area in the city on Sunday.

Talati, in his identical applications submitted to the Election Commission nodal officer and police, alleged that it was their intention to create communal riot.


What is the defination of secularism in this country, seems to me like to be secular in this country like the party which voted for the UPA in the no confdence vote, your manifesto should state that no computers, no machinery, the whole of india must be one grand slum where many slumdog millionares genre films can be made to be truly secular

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vsudhir » 22 Apr 2009 06:39

Delhi court orders attaching property of 2 terrorists

A city court on Tuesday ordered the attachment of property of two suspected Indian Mujahideen (IM) terrorists who managed to escape after the Batla House shootout in the aftermath of the serial bombings here last year.

"Let the process under section 83 (attachment of property of person absconding) of the Criminal Procedure Code be issued against both accused Ariz Khan and Shahjad Ahmed," Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate Navin Arora said.

Ariz Khan and Shahjad Khan, both from Azamgarh in Uttar Pradesh, first engaged a Delhi Police team in a gun battle September 19 and later gave them a slip, police alleged.


Now, now, the court shouldn't be giving the likes of INC and SP an excuse to launch dharnas against the judiciary for referring to the two gents as 'terrorists' onlee....esp during election time..../sarc off.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Satya_anveshi » 22 Apr 2009 11:06

We may need a separate thread on this. People should have seen this coming. What do this $hits want?

Naxals strike again, take passenger train hostage

Naxals struck once again ahead of the second phase of Lok Sabha polls by taking a passenger train with 700-800 people on board, hostage on Wednesday

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby negi » 22 Apr 2009 12:04

Chalo bhai accha hai; while we all make fun of Pakistan being overrun by Talibaan; our counterparts on the other side will be ROTFL after reading about the recent attacks by Naxalites and Maoists. And all this while MMS and PC Chidambaram must be watching IPL :evil: .

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby derkonig » 22 Apr 2009 13:23

Nu Nu dahling, MMS is sleeping like a baby....

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Virupaksha » 22 Apr 2009 13:32

may not be PC, but well!

We all know when his sleep is disturbed right! :evil:

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gerard » 24 Apr 2009 01:50


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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Keshav » 24 Apr 2009 11:15

Rahul Mehta wrote:IYO, one reason for naxalism is poverty. But most people here believe that poverty has decreased throughout rank and file of Indian population since 1991. So why has naxalism increased since 1991? Or do you actually believe that poverty has increased in some part of Indian population since 1991?


"Most people believe", unfortunately, is not a source and not the proper way to determine the growth or dearth of poverty in any given Indian state. Here is the way to understand the growth of Naxalism:

1) Identify which areas have seen Naxal recruitment
2) Identify the poverty levels in these areas
3) Identify the violence levels in these areas
4) Identify the political leadership in these areas.
5) Identify what group (political, cultural, religious, NGO) has been operating in this area

It will probably be a combination of all these.

Image
According to Wikipedia, the sources for this map are University of Texas, Census of India, US Army, CNN-IBN,

- I didn't realize AP had such a big problem with this. Can those who live there corroborate these findings?
- Bihar seems like an obvious one for several reasons - obvious poverty, proximity to WB, proximity to Nepal
- Jharkand same thing
- Orissa seems to be creating grievances.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 25 Apr 2009 01:30

Keshav take a look at this report from Nightwatch 4/22/09

India: Naxalite (Maoist) rebels captured a passenger train carrying some 700 passengers in Jharkhand State on 22 April, the day before the second round of voting in India’s general elections. News services reported about 200 Naxalites boarded the Gomo-Mogulsarai train early in the day in Jharkhand’s Latehar District.

The hostages were eventually released unharmed as authorities negotiated with the rebels by phone, the Times of India reported. The attack was among several blamed on Maoist rebels, who called a 24-hour bandh (commercial and industrial strike) at midnight to protest the elections.

Other incidents during the day included a blast on the rail tracks at Uttari, in Palamau District, that diverted a train, and a massive attack -- involving more than 100 armed reels -- against trucks in Barachatti. Gunmen reportedly stopped trucks along the Grand Trunk Road and set nine vehicles ablaze. A truck driver was killed while trying to escape. All of these locations are in eastern India.

Indian Home Affairs officials have decided to commit thousands of additional paramilitary police forces to election security in eastern India, where all of these incidents have taken place. The elections are proceeding on schedule. India has coped with Maoist attacks during every election period.

Voting on 23 April represents the second of the five phase voting period in the world’s most populous democracy. The five phases provides time for redeploying the hundreds of thousands, literally, of paramilitary police constables who ensure election security.

Historically, increased activism by the Naxalites was always traced to increased support encouragement and guidance by the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate base in Dhaka, Bangladesh. ISI provided the tactical guidance and the finances for the Maoist Naxalites to disrupt Indian elections. It is not clear that this is still the case, but no press sources indicate a change in the behavioral pattern.

Readers should know that the Chinese do not support the Maoists insurgents in eastern India – or in Nepal for that matter -- and that the Naxalites operate in a land-locked region of eastern India. The only source of arms support is from entities that operate in Bangladesh. Bangladesh has no interest in supporting Maoists and Burma seeks Indian investment. That leaves only the Pakistanis, who retain strong ties to the security services of Bangladesh and a free pass from the former East Pakistan government to annoy the Indians.



Need to lean on the BD govt to shut down the ISI ops in BD. How difficult is it to disrupt them in BD? I would have RAW go on a shooting war in BD with these dregs.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RamaY » 25 Apr 2009 01:44

Keshav wrote:
I didn't realize AP had such a big problem with this. Can those who live there corroborate these findings?


AFAIK - Naxalism took roots in AP during Nizam rule. And most of the educated supported Naxal movement in those days.

Current Maoist central committee is filled with Telugus. AP leaders provide ideological and technical leadership to current Maoist organization. Naxals still have decent support in some areas in AP mostly agency areas in Telangana and Orissa border. AP is in the middle of the Dandakaranya corridor connecting rest of the southern states.

However naxalism lost most of its cadre and support from general public in the recent past (10 years). The credit goes to AP Special Police (Greyhounds) and political leadership which handled the naxalism issue as the law-and-order issue, which is what it has become lately.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby yvijay » 25 Apr 2009 02:00

Keshav wrote: - I didn't realize AP had such a big problem with this. Can those who live there corroborate these findings?

That map looks like 3-4 years old. They took a lot of beating in last couple of years. Most of the top leadership was eliminated and they had to evacuate from their base in Nallamalla forests. The remaining leadership as Ramay explained above has moved to dandakarunya forests and they are core of the central committee. They may be still a threat in north coastal Andhra bordering Orissa, but they are more or less wiped out from most of AP.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Gaurav_S » 25 Apr 2009 09:02

Reliance refinery, Wipro, Infy first to get CISF cover

NEW DELHI: The Reliance refinery at Jamnagar in Gujarat, IT giants Infosys and Wipro and Electronic City, a software complex, in Bangalore are among
the first which will get CISF cover. These were in the list 47 private establishments which had applied for the paramilitary cover.

After processing all the requests, the home ministry has finally given its go ahead for these four establishments which come under the high-risk category in the wake of security audit done by CISF and other security and intelligence agencies.

Sources in the home ministry said that though other companies would also get similar security cover in due course, priority has been given to these four by taking into account various aspects, including the threat perceptions. The next lot will cover ports and power sector, they added.

The decision was taken in the wake of amendments in the CISF Act which allows the paramilitary force to provide security to private companies and cooperative societies on cost reimbursement basis. Earlier, only public sector undertakings (PSUs) were eligible to get such security cover.

The necessary amendments in the Act were brought in the wake of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attack when the government felt the need to include private companies within the ambit of CISF security considering intelligence inputs which suggested major threats to vital private establishments.

The Taj and Oberoi hotels in Mumbai, which witnessed the attacks on 26/11, have also requested for CISF cover. "A decision is, however, awaited in these cases," said an official.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 445717.cms

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rahul Mehta » 25 Apr 2009 09:21

Reliance refinery, Wipro, Infy first to get CISF cover

NEW DELHI: The Reliance refinery at Jamnagar in Gujarat, IT giants Infosys and Wipro and Electronic City, a software complex, in Bangalore are among
the first which will get CISF cover. These were in the list 47 private establishments which had applied for the paramilitary cover.


These companies seldom pay taxes by citing various exemption sections of Income Tax. eg Wirpo's export income is tax exempt. And these companies' run for police protection. Its time we get rid of all exemption sections from income tax act to improve Military and Police

-----

Rahul Mehta: IYO, one reason for naxalism is poverty. But most people here believe that poverty has decreased throughout rank and file of Indian population since 1991. So why has naxalism increased since 1991? Or do you actually believe that poverty has increased in some part of Indian population since 1991?

Keshav: "Most people believe", unfortunately, is not a source and not the proper way to determine the growth or dearth of poverty in any given Indian state.


Keshav,

By most people I mean : whole Govt, all economists, and also over 95% BRites.

The Govt statistics say that poverty has reduced by over 12% in past 18 years. And all economists agree with this, a few % here or there. And most BRites also say that poverty has decreased in past 17 years. And they all also say that poverty is decreasing as we speak.

So if poverty has decreased and is decreasing, why is naxal strength increasing?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 25 Apr 2009 11:18

Channels and papers reporting that Ambani's chopper was tampered with (Fuel tank filled with explosive material) and was luckily detected....Wonder who would do that?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vipul » 25 Apr 2009 20:01

RM you are talking %'s. Think about absolute numbers.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rahul M » 25 Apr 2009 20:50

AP is in the middle of the Dandakaranya corridor connecting rest of the southern states.

incidentally, dandakaranya was one of the areas outside WB chosen for settlement of a section of the uprooted populace from erstwhile east pakistan after partition who came into India as refugees.
I wonder if those people still live there and what is their stand on the naxalite issue. or even if they had served as links between the local naxalites and the bengal naxalites.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rangudu » 25 Apr 2009 22:17

Okay folks, sounds like we are unfortunately headed for a likely major terror strike again either in Delhi or in the South before the last round of elections. Too much chatter is going on.

My take is that we will see a return of pigLeTs using bomb blasts rather than a Mumbai recurrence. Specifically:

1. ISI and pigLeTs can use Indian SIMI low level cadres for bomb blasts, with perhaps only the bomb designer being exposed. So even if people are caught, there will be deniability for TSP

2. They likely have lost of bomb making material and couriers to tap from the last 5 years of infrastructure build up.

3. The increasing chatter about Babbar Khalsa and old Khalistani hands suggests that pigLeTs might use them for even more deniability. If Delhi is targeted, then look for Congress rallies in East Delhi or outer Delhi districts to project the "Sikhs taking revenge for Tytler/Sajjan Kumar" angle.

4. In the South, especially in Tamil Nadu, the LTTE angle may be used to deflect blame i.e. "Indians have betrayed Tamil Eelam cause etc."

But do not be fooled, this is still all an ISI/pigLeT/HuM/JeM play.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Keshav » 26 Apr 2009 02:06

Rahul Mehta wrote:Keshav,

By most people I mean : whole Govt, all economists, and also over 95% BRites.

The Govt statistics say that poverty has reduced by over 12% in past 18 years. And all economists agree with this, a few % here or there. And most BRites also say that poverty has decreased in past 17 years. And they all also say that poverty is decreasing as we speak.

So if poverty has decreased and is decreasing, why is naxal strength increasing?


I don't know. I just can't agree with you until you have a source.

Also, I think we're talking past each other a bit. When you say "Poverty has reduced 12% in 18 years", are you referring to each state, or 35% in Gujarat, 2 % in Bihar, so it averages out? Thats what we need to find - absolute numbers for all of the individual states. Averages don't mean much when people are dying of starvation and such, the individual does.

I'll try and look for one. Just keep in mind though, even if 400% of BRFites believe that Canada is the new threat to India, it would still not be correct. :wink:

EDIT:
Rahul, Wikipedia has a surprisingly good article with numerous sources for its claims. Your number of a 12% reduction in poverty is correct. All the hard sources are available in the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

The World Bank estimates that 456 million Indians (42% of the total Indian population) now live under the global poverty line of $1.25 per day (PPP). This means that a third of the global poor now reside in India. However, this also represents a significant decline in poverty from 60 percent in 1981 to 42 percent in 2005.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

Income inequality in India (Gini coefficient: 32.5 in year 1999- 2000)[8] is increasing. On the other hand, the Planning Commission of India uses its own criteria and has estimated that 27.5% of the population was living below the poverty line in 2004–2005, down from 51.3% in 1977–1978, and 36% in 1993-1994[9].

The source for this was the 61st round of the National Sample Survey (NSS) and the criterion used was monthly per capita consumption expenditure below Rs. 356.35 for rural areas and Rs. 538.60 for urban areas. 75% of the poor are in rural areas, most of them are daily wagers, self-employed householders and landless labourers.It is estimated that about 42.5% of the children in India suffer from malnutrition in India according to the Report give by the New York Times [10]

Although Indian economy has grown steadily over the last two decades, its growth has been uneven when comparing different social groups, economic groups, geographic regions, and rural and urban areas.[11] Between 1999 and 2008, the annualized growth rates for Gujarat (8.8%), Haryana (8.7%), or Delhi (7.4%) were much higher than for Bihar (5.1%), Uttar Pradesh (4.4%), or Madhya Pradesh (3.5%).[12] Poverty rates in rural Orissa (43%) and rural Bihar (41%) are among the world's most extreme.[13] 80% of Indians live on less then half a dollar a day.


The India State Hunger Index 2008 by the International Food Policy Research Institute. Punjab has the best nutritional situation, whereas malnutrition in Madhya Pradesh is worse than in Ethiopia or Sudan.

India has a higher rate of malnutrition among children under the age of three (46% in year 2007) than any other country in the world.[11][14]

Despite significant economic progress, 1/4 of the nation's population earns less than the government-specified poverty threshold of $0.40/day. Official figures estimate that 27.5%[15] of Indians lived below the national poverty line in 2004-2005.[16] A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees per day[17] with most working in "informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty."[18]

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 26 Apr 2009 02:19

So if poverty has decreased and is decreasing, why is naxal strength increasing?


Because you are trying to form a link where none exists. Poverty has nothing to do with naxalism, at least not since the Purulia air drop. There are other reasons external to India for the rise of Naxals and Maoists.

"Naxalism is rising as a reaction to rural poverty or increasing chasm in living standard between haves and have-nots" is nothing but a clever spin of Western psyop masters propagated through Indian English media. Don't fall for it.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Ananth » 26 Apr 2009 05:24

Rahul M wrote:
AP is in the middle of the Dandakaranya corridor connecting rest of the southern states.

incidentally, dandakaranya was one of the areas outside WB chosen for settlement of a section of the uprooted populace from erstwhile east pakistan after partition who came into India as refugees.
I wonder if those people still live there and what is their stand on the naxalite issue. or even if they had served as links between the local naxalites and the bengal naxalites.


Babu Moshai, you have proven your antecedants. Now I really believe that your forefathers were from BD. Yep, there are several "Bengali Camps" in Bastar, Dantewada, and other dists in southern Chattisgarh. These were specially made up by BD refugees of 71 war. IIRC there is also a strong concentration of Bengalis in Bhilai, Durg, Raipur area, which I "heard" were also settlers from BD.

Unlike our esteemed friends in Naxalbari, the Bengalis in "Bengali Camps" are staunch establishmentwadis. At least that is my subjective first hand experience. Rest assured, most of the naxals in southern chattisgarh is manned upto the foot soldier level by Annas only. Dadas are busy earning livelihood mostly. Exceptions might exist, but I have not seen any evidence that links Bengali settlers predominantly as cadres of naxals in those areas.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby putnanja » 27 Apr 2009 02:20

CBI chief gave Tytler a clean chit, his officers had said prosecute him

...
According to records obtained by The Sunday Express, the JD and DIG clearly recommended, in writing, that there was a strong case against Jagdish Tytler in the Bara Hindu Rao anti-Sikh riots case under a string of charges including murder, rioting and damage to property. Despite this, the agency’s director Ashwani Kumar signed on the clean chit to Tytler.
...
However, records also show that the CBI clean chit came after its Director of Prosecutions S K Sharma, who reports to the Law Ministry, also opined that the evidence against Tytler was too weak.

...
When The Sunday Express contacted Jasbir Singh in San Francisco, he said he was shocked to learn about the CBI’s attempt to close the case. Although he said he was not given a copy of his statement, he said he had told CBI investigators how on November 3, 1984, he had heard the Congress leader telling an assembled crowd near Teg Bahadur Hospital that, “I had assured you that you kill Sikhs and nothing will happen to you. I had given a promise to the Centre. Despite this, by killing least number of Sikhs you have lowered my prestige.”

“The CBI officers before whom I deposed told me nothing will come out of the case and I was wasting everyone’s time,” claimed Jasbir Singh. “I gave clear evidence against Tytler. Should my evidence be disregarded because of the inefficiency of the CBI?”
...

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby putnanja » 27 Apr 2009 02:22

President Patil dissents, wants Cabinet’s call on Gujarat terror Bill

In a rare intervention, President Pratibha Patil has returned the recommendation of the Union Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) to send the Gujarat Control of Organised Crime (GUJCOC) Bill, 2003, back to the state Assembly. Sources told The Sunday Express that the President has directed the MHA to seek the concurrence of the Union Cabinet on the course of action suggested by it.

...


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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 27 Apr 2009 16:37

Babu Moshai, you have proven your antecedants. Now I really believe that your forefathers were from BD. Yep, there are several "Bengali Camps" in Bastar, Dantewada, and other dists in southern Chattisgarh. These were specially made up by BD refugees of 71 war. IIRC there is also a strong concentration of Bengalis in Bhilai, Durg, Raipur area, which I "heard" were also settlers from BD.

Unlike our esteemed friends in Naxalbari, the Bengalis in "Bengali Camps" are staunch establishmentwadis. At least that is my subjective first hand experience. Rest assured, most of the naxals in southern chattisgarh is manned upto the foot soldier level by Annas only. Dadas are busy earning livelihood mostly. Exceptions might exist, but I have not seen any evidence that links Bengali settlers predominantly as cadres of naxals in those areas.



Ananth, Excellent sense of humor, u hv

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 27 Apr 2009 16:44

Taken from TOI Kolkata Edition epaper of 27th April, 2009


TOI l Exclusive
Maoists Gear Up For Post-Poll Battle


Through treacherous terrain and a trail that can’t be named or remembered, Saugata Roy & Subhro Niyogi trudged with contacts in Jangalkhand — bordering Bengal, Bihar and Orissa — to reach one of India’s most wanted Maoist leaders, Koteswar Rao alias Kishanji

They got the ammunition from the ruling CPM to combat Trinamool-BJP’s armed motorbike gangs that raided villages at Keshpur in West Midnapore. That was in May 2000. Nine years later, Maoist guerrillas are leading the resistance against police and armed CPM cadres in Lalgarh and Nandigram.
In Nandigram, Trinamool Congress supplied them arms. Trained Maoists put up a resistance with Trinamool ranks for months after the Nandigram carnage on March 14, 2007, until last November, when they ran out of ammo and had to beat a retreat.
All this, from the man who was in the thick of it — Koteswar Rao alias Kishanji, CPI (Maoist) politburo member in charge of Bengal, Jharkhand and Orissa and head of the party’s central military commission. An hour-long trek into the forests of Jangalkhand, ‘guides’ showing the way up to a certain point, and then accompanied by an SLR-flaunting group of Maoist commandos, led us to Kishanji and his squad in the “liberated zone”.
Unlike mainstream political parties, Rao is not bothered about the outcome of the Lok Sabha elections. This 51-yearold master strategist is busy training Maoist squads spread over the forests in the Bengal-Jharkhand-Orissa belt to face “state repression” once the polls are over.
Rao’s strategy is to expand the “base areas” in the entire West Midnapore-Bankura-Purulia belt bordering Jharkhand. And this, he wants to do with support of local villagers and not just with firepower. The dream is to set up “revolutionary squads” that would “create pressure on the powers that be and align against the tormentors of the poor”.
“It varies from place to place. We fought the feudal lords in Andhra Pradesh. What I found unique in Bengal when I first came to this state in 1998 is the hegemony of political parties. Most of the time it is CPM and at times Trinamool,” he said.

“As I said, in 2000, the Trinamool-BJP brigades were setting huts of poor villagers on fire in Keshpur. We joined the CPM ranks to fight the offensive. I distinctly remember that I collected 5,000 cartridges from the CPM party office. CPM leader and minister Susanta Ghosh would have been nowhere if we were not there. But the CPM atrocities in Suchpur, Nanoor in Birbhum and Chhoto Angaria and Garbeta in West Midnapore did not escape our attention. We started working among the poor, raised our voice against corruption in the panchayats and started mobilizing the poor on social issues. We did not kill any CPM activist till 2000,” the Maoist general said.
When asked about the role reversal followed by recent killings of CPM men in this belt, Kishanji went on the offensive. “The media has been highlighting CPM killings only, as though we are out to kill people. How do you reconcile the fact that the CPM brigade treated our men as slaves after a war in Nandigram? Is it democracy? But believe me, we check many times in our committees, trying to gauge the people’s pulse before taking any such final action,” he said.
“CPM leaders such as Dipak Sarkar (West Midnapore CPM district secretary), Lakshman Seth, MP from Tamluk, and Anuj Pandey, CPM zonal secretary, have turned tormentors. They want to have the area under their control. People are scared of them. Men like these and their henchmen down the ranks are our targets. Worse, they have lost the political courage to win hearts. Instead, they come with the police and torture villagers in the dead of night. They have recently formed a Ganatantra Suraksha Samiti, and the police distribute their posters,” the Maoist leader said.
The protracted struggle against the “deviated Marxists” will continue, Rao said. “We will oppose Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee’s dream project in Nayachar, the steel project in Salboni, and if villagers want we will forcibly occupy the acquired land in Singur and give it back to the tillers. Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee was never our target before the Nandigram carnage in 2007. But if the government chooses to usurp the rights of the poor and forest dwellers, we can’t but resist the move.”




‘Fought Opp then, battling CPM now’
A diminutive man, barely 5 feet 4 inches tall, emerges from the jungle, flashing a disarming smile. Dressed in creased fullsleeve cotton shirt and trousers, shabby cap and worn-out chappals, there’s no way you can understand who he really is. The AK-56 rifle slung across his shoulder offers a hint, though. But what settles the introduction is the steely vice-like grip with which he greets these correspondents and the closed-fist lal salaam that follows.
Meet Koteswar Rao, alias Kishanji, the most-wanted CPI(Maoist) politburo member in charge of Bengal, Jharkhand and Orissa and head of the party’s central military commission. The first impression of this encounter is one of incredulity. Could this really be the dreaded man who has left the Centre and three states in the region on their toes?
The second of three surviving sons of Venkataiah — former district president of Congress Socialist Party from Karimnagar in Andhra Pradesh’s north Telangana belt — Kishanji was born at Peddapalli village in 1957. He joined the movement for a separate Telangana state and became a full-time Naxalite in 1971. His first and last public appearance was at a peasant rally in Andhra Pradesh, in August 1978.
Since then, he has been operating from underground, finetuning the political line of the Maoists and leading the people’s militia from the front.
Here are excerpts from a free-wheeling interview that SAUGATA ROY and SUBHRO NIYOGI had with Kishanji in the depths of Jangalkhand.

Q.

You are one of the most wanted
persons of the country. Even Left Front
chairman Biman Bose announced months ago that you have entered Bengal from
Jharkhand. What made you come here?

A:

(Smiles) I am not new to this terrain. I first came to Bengal from Dandakaranya in 1995. I have been to the villages in Lalgarh in West Midnapore in 1998. The Bengal-Jharkhand-Orissa (BJO) border zone, as well as North Bengal, have been our priority. North Bengal would give us access to the North-east, Bangladesh and Bhutan. But we chose the BJO because that is part of a contiguous forest cover spread over Andhra Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Bengal and Bihar. I joined politics in my student days in Karimnagar College, North Telangana, from where I did my graduation in mathematics. Kondapelli Sitaramaiah was our political guru. We took military training from the LTTE in 1981. Today, our party has an uninterrupted presence in this 800-km corridor up to Bangriposi in Orissa, except a short patch of 30 km.

Q.

West Bengal has been a traditional
Left bastion for decades. What made you concentrate on this state?


A:

Bankura, Purulia and West Midnapore are three of the most backward districts of the state. Our organizers have been working in these areas since long. We have some organizers in Mayurbhanj and East Singhbhum as well. What I find unique in Bengal is the hegemony of political parties. True, there are no big landlords here as there were in Andhra Pradesh. But here political leaders have turned oppressors. Earlier, it was the Congress, and now it is the CPM. Powerhungry CPM leaders — some of them even coming from Dalit or poverty-striken families — are now disowning their roots. They have become lackeys of the state machinery and are controlling everything from business to social institutions. They
are social fascists. Asim Mondal, who was killed in Bhulabheda, was a CPM leadercum-timber trader. He used to decide prices of kendu leaf and was also raising a force against us. It’s the same with others. The villages and villagers’ lives are under their control. We warn them to mend their ways and only after extreme provocation do we pull the trigger. Unfortunately, their daily misdeeds and acts of repression are not reported by the media. It is only when they are killed that the news get highlighted. How else do you expect us to challenge CPM leaders who are armed to the teeth? They are a counter-revolutionary force and have to be politically exposed.
Corruption is rampant in the panchayats. Both the CPM and Jharkhand Party are involved in corrupt practises. Trinamool Congress, too, is not an exception. Some of their leaders in Nandigram have made huge money by selling spares of the abandoned Jellingham project. We started taking up these social issues to organize the poor.

Q:

While creating your bases in these
areas, your party had come to the aid of the CPM in 2000 and then went with the Opposition. How do you reconcile this
role reversal?


A:

Yes, we joined the CPM ranks to fight the Trinamool-BJP offensive in Keshpur. That was in May 2000, when the Trinamool chief announced that Keshpur would be CPM’s graveyard. Armed men were setting the huts of the poor villagers on fire. We sided with the poor. I distinctly remember that I collected 5,000 cartridges from the CPM party office. CPM leader and minister Susanta Ghosh would have been nowhere today, had we not been with them. But the CPM atrocities in Chhoto Angaria, Suchpur, Nanoor did not go unnoticed by us. It was only when CPM came to grips with the situation in 2001 and began targeting our men that we struck back. Finally, when Nandigram villagers rose against the state’s land grab move, we took on the CPM’s armed brigade. This time, Trinamool supplied us the ammunition. We kept up the resistance along with Trinamool ranks for months after the Nandigram carnage. During the final assault in November, we ran out of stocks and had
to beat a retreat. The CPM men captured 300 of the local militia, and literally treated them as slaves like war prisoners with their hands tied behind.

Q:

Even if one were to accept your logic of summary punishment, how do you
justify the killings of low-rung partymen who come from poor families?

A:

In most cases, killings have happened after all means of persuasion and reasoning failed. What may appear to you as a simple low-rung CPM leader is actually his mask that outsiders get to see. But yes, there have been mistakes. In 20% of the cases, there could have been more persuasive attempts. In 50% cases, we could have campaigned better, politically. The blast that killed the medical team was clearly a mistake. A rectification process is currently on in the party and we hope to emerge as an outfit that takes more judicious decisions.

Q:

What about the landmine blast that
targeted the CM’s convoy in November?
A:


Till the Nandigram carnage, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee was not on our hit list. The villagers of Nandigram were fighting CPM politically when the massacre was ordered by the CM. That changed everything. Now, he is our target. So are CPM strongman and MP Lakshman Seth, West Midnapore district secretary Dipak Sarkar, zonal party leader Anuj Pandey...

Q:

The Maoists are also seen as anti industry. The perception about the outfit, particularly in cities, is that it will not
allow industrialization. How can class
struggle happen sans the working class?

A:

We are not against industry. But we are opposed to the neo-liberal policies pursued by the Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee government. The neo-liberal bubble has burst. The deviated Marxists (CPM) are only paying lip service to it and at the same time are looking at options to come to a post-poll adjustment with the Congress. The CPM government is pursuing industrial projects dumped by advanced capitalist countries. People all over the world are rising against polluting sponge iron units, construction of big dams and chemical hubs that affect the environment. Even the proposed car factory in Singur is to create an assembly line and has low direct employment potential. Tell me, how do these projects help the sons of the soil? These are projects advocated by the IMF and the World Bank and the CPM government is trying to implement them. We will oppose Nayachar because a chemical hub will destroy the livelihood of 2.5 lakh fishermen. No developed country sets up chemical hubs now. Why should we? As
for Singur, industry will not happen there. The land was forcibly acquired from farmers. We will take over the acquired land, if the locals want it and return it to the tillers. We are waiting for the response from the Opposition — Trinamool and Congress. Instead, we want a sustainable development path and inclusive growth trajectory that won’t divest the poor from their fruits of labour.

Q:

But how can you distribute
government-acquired land when the law says to the contrary?

A:

I don’t care what the law says. Has the law come of any help in booking the culprits who burnt men alive in Chhoto Angaria? Let law take its course, we will have our own if people want it.

Q:

There are allegations that your party has been extorting businessmen and
salaried persons and terrorising villagers.

A:

This is far from truth. Our leaders lead a simple life. On the contrary, we have been resisting efforts by contractors to plunder the forest wealth. Why should we fleece common people? If we need money, we will loot banks and collect the ammunition from the state armoury. This is no secret. Our party has a written resolution on this. At times, some of the government officers have tried to lure some of our supporters with contracts. In such cases, we have pointed it out to them in presence of their guardians, who are also our supporters and asked them to fall in line.

DEATHS IN MAOIST BELT
2008

NOV 1: CPM local committee leader Indrajeet Mura, resident of Kashmar under Belpahari PS, killed
NOV 15: Ration dealer Ashok Haldar, resident of Bhulabheda in Belpahari, executed
DEC 11: Jharkhand Party panchayat samity member Sudhir Mandi, resident of Belpahari’s Bhulabheda, killed

2009
JAN 25: PCPA member Nirmal Sardar killed near Bhulabheda*
FEB 1: CPM Binpur zonal committee member Nandalal Pal, resident of Murar under Lalgarh PS, killed
FEB 2: PCPA supporters Lakhindar Mandi, Rajaram Mandi and Gopinath Soren killed at Khashjangal, Lalgarh*
FEB 13: DYFI zonal leader Sujit Panda killed at Dharampur
MAR 13: CPM local committee member Chandi Karan of Lachhipur injured in landmine blast at Belatikri
MAR 18: CPM local committee member Durgapada Deswali killed at Banspahari
MAR 18: CPM supporter Santosh Mahato killed at Bhulabheda, Belpahari
MAR 26: Bodies of PCPA supporters Manoranjan Singh and Bishnu Singh, residents of Shyamnagar under Belpahari PS, found in jungles of Bankura*
MAR 28: PCPA supporter Indrajit Sahis killed at Boita, Lalgarh*
APRIL 10: Former Banshpahari CPM local committee member Asim Mondal killed
APRIL 21: CPM leaders Hambir Mandi and Shaktipada Sen abducted and killed in Nadaria, Salboni
APRIL 22: CPM supporter Gopinath Murmu killed at Dubrajpur, Lalgarh *Maoist supporters

[Please Note: Its not possible to post the exact link, as its taken 4m TOI epaper. But you can navigate to http://epaper.timesofindia.com/ then select Kolkata edition, then chk 27th Apr 2009 edition ]

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 27 Apr 2009 16:56

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
So if poverty has decreased and is decreasing, why is naxal strength increasing?


Because you are trying to form a link where none exists. Poverty has nothing to do with naxalism, at least not since the Purulia air drop. There are other reasons external to India for the rise of Naxals and Maoists.

"Naxalism is rising as a reaction to rural poverty or increasing chasm in living standard between haves and have-nots" is nothing but a clever spin of Western psyop masters propagated through Indian English media. Don't fall for it.


cause/ideology and rise are 2 diff thngs.
Western ???? :-? :eek:

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 28 Apr 2009 10:59

Keshav wrote:
Rahul Mehta wrote:Keshav,

By most people I mean : whole Govt, all economists, and also over 95% BRites.

The Govt statistics say that poverty has reduced by over 12% in past 18 years. And all economists agree with this, a few % here or there. And most BRites also say that poverty has decreased in past 17 years. And they all also say that poverty is decreasing as we speak.

So if poverty has decreased and is decreasing, why is naxal strength increasing?


I don't know. I just can't agree with you until you have a source.

Also, I think we're talking past each other a bit. When you say "Poverty has reduced 12% in 18 years", are you referring to each state, or 35% in Gujarat, 2 % in Bihar, so it averages out? Thats what we need to find - absolute numbers for all of the individual states. Averages don't mean much when people are dying of starvation and such, the individual does.

I'll try and look for one. Just keep in mind though, even if 400% of BRFites believe that Canada is the new threat to India, it would still not be correct. :wink:

EDIT:
Rahul, Wikipedia has a surprisingly good article with numerous sources for its claims. Your number of a 12% reduction in poverty is correct. All the hard sources are available in the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

The World Bank estimates that 456 million Indians (42% of the total Indian population) now live under the global poverty line of $1.25 per day (PPP). This means that a third of the global poor now reside in India. However, this also represents a significant decline in poverty from 60 percent in 1981 to 42 percent in 2005.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

Income inequality in India (Gini coefficient: 32.5 in year 1999- 2000)[8] is increasing. On the other hand, the Planning Commission of India uses its own criteria and has estimated that 27.5% of the population was living below the poverty line in 2004–2005, down from 51.3% in 1977–1978, and 36% in 1993-1994[9].

The source for this was the 61st round of the National Sample Survey (NSS) and the criterion used was monthly per capita consumption expenditure below Rs. 356.35 for rural areas and Rs. 538.60 for urban areas. 75% of the poor are in rural areas, most of them are daily wagers, self-employed householders and landless labourers.It is estimated that about 42.5% of the children in India suffer from malnutrition in India according to the Report give by the New York Times [10]

Although Indian economy has grown steadily over the last two decades, its growth has been uneven when comparing different social groups, economic groups, geographic regions, and rural and urban areas.[11] Between 1999 and 2008, the annualized growth rates for Gujarat (8.8%), Haryana (8.7%), or Delhi (7.4%) were much higher than for Bihar (5.1%), Uttar Pradesh (4.4%), or Madhya Pradesh (3.5%).[12] Poverty rates in rural Orissa (43%) and rural Bihar (41%) are among the world's most extreme.[13] 80% of Indians live on less then half a dollar a day.


The India State Hunger Index 2008 by the International Food Policy Research Institute. Punjab has the best nutritional situation, whereas malnutrition in Madhya Pradesh is worse than in Ethiopia or Sudan.

India has a higher rate of malnutrition among children under the age of three (46% in year 2007) than any other country in the world.[11][14]

Despite significant economic progress, 1/4 of the nation's population earns less than the government-specified poverty threshold of $0.40/day. Official figures estimate that 27.5%[15] of Indians lived below the national poverty line in 2004-2005.[16] A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees per day[17] with most working in "informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty."[18]



Keshav your stats and words sound like that of typical commies. Its a very complex calculation. But irrespective of the numbers , that if BPL level has decreased 4m 45% to 42% or something else. Its still a fact that even after 50 years still almost 50% or more people live in extreme or moderate poverty. THIS IS S FACT that do not need ny stats to support.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 28 Apr 2009 11:01

American & European visitors to be screened for swine flu

LINK

Alarmed that the deadly swine flu, which has already taken over 100 lives in Mexico, could reach India, the authorities on Monday decided
to screen all travellers coming from the US, UK, Canada, Mexico, France and New Zealand, while advising to avoid ``non-essential travel'' to these flu-affected countries.

The scare of a pandemic that could affect millions across the globe, spurred the Indian authorities to put together a containment plan by deploying doctors at nine airports and ports and making it mandatory for all those arriving from the flu-hit countries to undergo checks for fever and throat infection.


This seems to be a more imminent and present danger to internal security

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby archan » 28 Apr 2009 16:10

A good read.
The Maoists and our democratic joke
RSN Singh is a former military intelligence officer who later served in the Research and Analysis Wing, or R&AW. The author of two books: Asian Strategic and Military Perspective and Military Factor in Pakistan, he is also Associate Editor, Indian Defence Review.

ore than anything else, the 2009 Elections will be remembered for the subversion of the democratic process by the Maoists by the unprecedented use of armed force.

Through their violent ways, The Maoists have robbed the election process of its sanctity and legitimacy. The State and its people are the targets, and terror is their tool.

It is therefore anyone's conjecture, how many voters must have been dissuaded from exercising their franchise. If the Maoists had the audacity to strike at the camps of the security forces, imagine the amount of intimidation and atrocities they would have perpetrated on hapless people in the Maoists-influence areas.

Second, many candidates including our former foreign minister and finance minister Mr Yashwant Sinha --in some 40 parliamentary constituencies in the 'red corridor' could not venture into the remote areas due to the Maoists threat. Was this electoral exercise, therefore, a triumph of democracy in the real sense?

Third, what about the security of the people who defied the Maoists and exercised their franchise after the security forces had been withdrawn?

Fourth, can it be ruled out that the some candidates did not have the truck with the Maoists to scare away voters in the areas where their appeal was weak? In one instance, a candidate and his workers were kidnapped and their vehicle was burnt allegedly by the Maoists. The candidate was soon released, something which the Maoists are not known for.

This could well be a case of a unholy liaison between the so-called Maoists and some politicians to subvert the electoral process by terrorizing the voters. In certain areas, the Maoists are not averse to taking 'protection money' from candidates.

In this regard, the example of a village 'Sabdo' in Bihar is revealing. A young couple had transformed it into a model village by facilitating education for all children and brought about changes in the pattern of agriculture by involving the local people in creating irrigational facilities, as a result of which the agricultural produce and consequently the income of the farmers trebled. Their social and developmental crusade had to a very great extent broken the cast barriers existing in the village. Their contribution was hailed by the media.
But the Maoists, who felt that their constituency was being weaned away by the development activities, eventually murdered the couple.

There are a lot of powerful people in India who do not want the caste and religion divides to diminish. It will force them to close their shops and actually work hard for honest living. It is sad that the common man cannot see past this.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Apr 2009 16:23

Waah what bravery by Maoists

http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories/2009042854050400.htm


http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories/2009042854050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vsudhir » 28 Apr 2009 16:31

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons


Which is why when the tribals are armed for a change (as Salwa Judum seeks to do) the maoists brown their pants and their overground apologists go overboard demanding an end to salwa judum 'abuses'.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sanjay M » 29 Apr 2009 16:15

Major security breach in Parliament

April 29, 2009 15:40 IST


LTTE or Jihadis? It's hard to know which might be the culprit. Both seem to have experience in using remote-control drones. Both might gain from another parliamentary attack.

Right now I'm leaning towards the jihadis. And this is because Pak is squirming badly under the US grip in being forced into another major military clash with Taliban. Just as with Mumbai, they could really use another terrorist stunt right now to force Indian troops to the border, so that Pak Army would have an excuse for abandoning the latest operation against their Taliban brothers.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 May 2009 17:48

Aditya_V wrote:Waah what bravery by Maoists

http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories/2009042854050400.htm


http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories/2009042854050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons



He must have been a Police spy. We see these frequently in western part of WB.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rahul M » 01 May 2009 17:55

"must have" ?? indeed !!
may I ask how you know ? proof please.
else delete that irrelevant post. and even if true, that justifies killing him in your eyes ? :roll:

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 01 May 2009 18:00

nsa_tanay wrote Aditya_V wrote:
Waah what bravery by Maoists


Quote:
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm


http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons



He must have been a Police spy. We see these frequently in western part of WB.




What a convienient excuse he must have been a police spy, no basis for such a allegation and even if the poor tribal was helping the police( it is the duty of every citizen of this country to report criminals), what gives a particular group to murder a poor tribal here, murder a truck driver here...........

and please explain how do these maoists obtain satellitte phones, a satellitte phone Thuraya connection which a poor person like me can't afford but is still comfortbly feed my family.. What gives a group to kill people as they like and terrorise others. I dont like many people in my country and NSA_Tanay I don't agree with your views. Does it mean I have a right to murder you????????

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 May 2009 18:06

Rahul M wrote:"must have" ?? indeed !!
may I ask how you know ? proof please.
else delete that irrelevant post. and even if true, that justifies killing him in your eyes ? :roll:



please delete ur above post unless you can justify, people joining politics as 'fakir' and becoming 'aamir' in few years. unless you can justify the fact that every single rupee that the central govt spends for the dev of the poor and just Rs.0.43 of that amount reaches grass root level.

please justify yourself when you surf computer(may be pricy hing end one) in a AC( may not be) room and edit BR forum. and 50% of people live under poverty line. When you eat in a costly restaurant and pay hefty bills and people beg out side the glass window of the restaurant.

Its a struggle of oppressed unprivileged against the oppressor.

[the 'you' is only symbolic. Nothing personal. Its a generalization]

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 May 2009 18:17

nsa_tanay wrote:
Rahul M wrote:"must have" ?? indeed !!
may I ask how you know ? proof please.
else delete that irrelevant post. and even if true, that justifies killing him in your eyes ? :roll:



please delete ur above post unless you can justify, people joining politics as 'fakir' and becoming 'aamir' in few years. unless you can justify the fact that every single rupee that the central govt spends for the dev of the poor and just Rs.0.43 of that amount reaches grass root level.

please justify yourself when you surf computer(may be pricy hing end one) in a AC( may not be) room and edit BR forum. and 50% of people live under poverty line. When you eat in a costly restaurant and pay hefty bills and people beg out side the glass window of the restaurant.

Its a struggle of oppressed unprivileged against the oppressor.

[the 'you' is only symbolic. Nothing personal. Its a generalization]



[Note:]
I stated the 'police spy' theory because it has been seen that people who make it to the Naxal list are mainly the oppressor or having allegiance with the govt machinery. You also know it (perhaps)
My intention was not to justify the killing. I only stated a probable reason. thats it.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nsa_tanay » 01 May 2009 18:21

Aditya_V wrote:
nsa_tanay wrote Aditya_V wrote:
Waah what bravery by Maoists


Quote:
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm


http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons



He must have been a Police spy. We see these frequently in western part of WB.




What a convienient excuse he must have been a police spy, no basis for such a allegation and even if the poor tribal was helping the police( it is the duty of every citizen of this country to report criminals), what gives a particular group to murder a poor tribal here, murder a truck driver here...........

and please explain how do these maoists obtain satellitte phones, a satellitte phone Thuraya connection which a poor person like me can't afford but is still comfortbly feed my family.. What gives a group to kill people as they like and terrorise others. I dont like many people in my country and NSA_Tanay I don't agree with your views. Does it mean I have a right to murder you????????



please read the above post.......


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