J & K news and discussion

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sum » 07 Sep 2008 15:58

In the ensuing exchange of fire, Al-badr chief commander Haider was killed on Sunday morning, the spokesman added.

I was under the impression that the Al-Badr was decimated and ceased to exist?? :-?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby SSridhar » 08 Sep 2008 08:50

sum wrote:
In the ensuing exchange of fire, Al-badr chief commander Haider was killed on Sunday morning, the spokesman added.

I was under the impression that the Al-Badr was decimated and ceased to exist?? :-?


No, it wasn't decimated nor did it cease to exist. Here is a brief on Al Badr

Al-Badr Mujahideen

Has fought in East Pakistan (1970) and under Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami in Afghanistan.Named after the historic Battle of Badr (near Mecca) fought and won by Prophet Mohammed.

Amir - Bakht Zameen

Normally the cadres are highly educated.
Considered close to ISI
Dominated by Pushtun. Recruits not only subcontinental Muslims but also Afghans & Arabs.
Headquarters at Manshera, NWFP.
Al-Badr was responsible for the genocide in East Pakistan in 1971.
Disbanded by the ISI after 1971 and again resurrected in the 80s to fight in Afghanistan.
Morphed into Al Suffa in 2006

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sum » 08 Sep 2008 09:10

Hi SSridhar, i meant ceased to exist in J&K,esp after their entire top leadership was wiped out in a G-Branch/IB intel operation?

Sad to see that they are still around... :x

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby archan » 08 Sep 2008 17:39

I wonder if this hat trick and the one wicket down before that was related to the of NSG approval after which the GoI gave a free-er hand to the security forces to deal with the scum. If yes, these 'commanders' probably know that their TFTA lives are at the whims of some dhoti wearing weak-kneed netas and the ticket to houristan can be cut anytime. Now I haven't been hearing much noise out of their big leaders after the rally. Where is Mr. Pakistani Geelani?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Bharati » 09 Sep 2008 01:54

Atleast some people seem to be saying the right things.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=EDITS&file_name=edit3%2Etxt&counter_img=3

Treachery must be punished


A Surya Prakash

A bunch of US and Europe-based India-baiters, many of whom are possibly our fellow citizens, have done signal disservice to our Constitution, secular order and territorial integrity by putting their weight behind the arguments of Kashmiri separatists and shooting off a petition full of factual inaccuracies and patent lies to the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. The signatories to this petition, mostly academics in leading US universities, have called for UN intervention to deal with what they claim is a "humanitarian crisis" in Jammu & Kashmir.

Unfortunately, the UNCHR fell into the trap and criticised India for violation of human rights. The Union Government promptly rebuked it for making statements which were "uncalled for and irresponsible". This ugly episode has been triggered by a petition which has suppressio veri, suggestio falsi as its leitmotif. Though most of the signatories are university teachers, their commitment to truth is so abysmal that it will set you wondering on the quality of education they impart in their classrooms. For example, the whole world is aware that four lakh Kashmiri Pandits were hounded out of their homes in the Kashmir Valley in 1989-90 in the most ruthlessly executed ethnic cleansing operation in recent times in this part of the world. However, the petition makes no reference to this ugly episode but sheds copious tears for some imaginary attack last month on the Muslims in the Jammu region of the State. The Jammu agitation was so disciplined and organised that it would have made Mahatma Gandhi proud. Also, just as Gandhi would have wanted it, this movement was backed by Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims, all of whom were upset over the selfish, insular attitude of the Muslims in the Valley. Yet, this petition makes the outrageous claim that there was "ethnic cleansing" of Muslims in the Jammu region.

What is even more invidious is that the petitioners say, rather approvingly, that since 1989 "there has been an armed pro-independence struggle in Kashmir, together with other non-violent movements for self-determination" and that Indian counter-insurgency operations "have resulted in grave abuses of human rights" with social, economic, psychological, political, and environmental consequences, "which meet the definition under international law of crimes against humanity".

There are two glaring omissions in the petition, which raise doubts about the intellectual integrity, intentions and affiliations of the signatories. The first of these is their reluctance to acknowledge the ethnic cleaning of Kashmiri Pandits in the Kashmir Valley. The second omission is the deafening silence of the petitioners about the complete absence of even rudimentary human rights in so-called 'Azad Kashmir' and specially in Shia-dominated Gilgit-Baltistan, which is under the illegal occupation of Pakistan. If the academics did not have the know-how to ascertain facts, they could have sought the help of primary school children, who would have done a simple Google search and given them tonnes of material on the horrendous human rights record of Pakistan in Gilgit-Baltistan. This material would most certainly include the opinion of Ms Asma Jehangir, the special UN rapporteur on Human Rights, who has said that successive Pakistani Governments have ignored these rights in the case of the Northern Areas and 'Azad Kashmir'. The kids would also have fished out the report of Baroness Emma Nicholson of Winterbourne, Member of the European Parliament and Vice-Chairperson of the European Union Committee on Foreign Affairs, which was adopted by the European Parliament in May 2007. This report said that the people of Gilgit-Baltistan "are under direct rule of the military and enjoy no democracy" and are subjected to "frequent incidents of terror and violence perpetrated by armed militant groups".

Many of the signatories to this petition have Indian surnames like Chatterji, Seshadri, Mathur, Bose, Basu, Khan and Nagarajan. If any of them are citizens of India and if the Government stands committed to protecting India's unity and integrity, then the following course of action may be considered: Impounding the passports of all these worthies at the port of entry whenever they return to India; arrest on arrival; and framing of charges under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967. Section 2(1)(o) of the Act describes 'unlawful activity' as any action taken by an individual or an association (whether by committing an act or by words, either spoken or written...) : (i) which is intended, or supports any claim, to bring about, on any ground whatsoever, the cession of a part of the territory of India or the secession of a part of the territory of India from the Union, or which incites any individual or group of individuals to bring about such cession or secession; or (ii) which disclaims, questions, disrupts or is intended to disrupt the sovereignty and territorial integrity of India; or (iii) which causes or is intended to cause disaffection against India. Section 2(1)(i) of the Act further explains that "cessation of a part of the territory of India from the Union includes the assertion of any claim to determine whether such part will remain a part of the territory of India".

It is quite clear from a reading of this law that all citizens of India who have signed this petition which approves of the "armed pro-independence struggle in Kashmir, together with other and non-violent movements for self-determination", fall foul of Section 2.

Further, the claim that the Indian Government's response to the demand for self-determination by the Kashmiris "have resulted in grave abuses of human rights", attracts Section 2(1)(o)(iii) which prohibits Indian citizens from saying or doing anything which causes or is intended to cause "disaffection against India". Indian signatories must therefore be brought to book. As regards the foreigners who have lent their names to this petition, they will have to be blacklisted and denied visa, so long as they do not publicly disavow this petition. Those who drafted this law have truly given it a long arm because Section 5(a) says it applies to "citizens of India outside India" and Section 1(4) says the law applies to offences committed outside India "in the same manner as if such act had been committed in India". So, there can be no dispute about the applicability of this law on many of these signatories, who belong to what may be called the 'Arundhati Brigade'. India's unity, integrity and the basic structure of the Constitution will be in great peril if the state does not firmly shut out these discordant and treacherous voices.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby kumarn » 09 Sep 2008 16:17

Good news on Kashmir issue soon, says Zardari

He further said contacts were underway on Kashmir issue and soon people would hear good news before Indian polls.
Zardari said he was also aware of back door contacts on Kashmir issue and announced to form a Kashmir committee soon.


Looks like something might be in the offing from the UPA sarkar.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby CRamS » 09 Sep 2008 18:21

kumarn wrote:Good news on Kashmir issue soon, says Zardari

He further said contacts were underway on Kashmir issue and soon people would hear good news before Indian polls.
Zardari said he was also aware of back door contacts on Kashmir issue and announced to form a Kashmir committee soon.


Looks like something might be in the offing from the UPA sarkar.


It will be some complicated sell out by India. And with the details buried, like the nuke deal', it will split Indian polity endlessly arguing, MMS/Sonia & their DDM supporters saying its not secession or appeasement, while BJP will impotently kick and scream to no avail. Meanwhile, Unkil and his lackeys will laud this as India's arrival on the global scene (which DDM will celebrate) as they and TSP go luaghing to the bank. Mark my word on this.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sum » 09 Sep 2008 18:52

He further said contacts were underway on Kashmir issue and soon people would hear good news before Indian polls.
Zardari said he was also aware of back door contacts on Kashmir issue and announced to form a Kashmir committee soon.

If there is one statement which scared the daylights out of me, this must be it....

I actually think that the gloom-doom scenarios of BR regarding a UPA sellout relating to the J-K for the nuke-deal is coming true... :eek: :cry:

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 09 Sep 2008 19:41

:D , some people still believe the utterances of a medically certified lunatic.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby RajeshA » 09 Sep 2008 19:41

Making the LoC the international border may not be the ideal solution right now.

Pakistan is in the doldrums and in free fall to meet a non-existent bottom at top speed.

The chances look good, that Pakistan would just break up in a decade or two. The Taliban War in Pushtoon areas of Pakistan, the Baluchi insurgency, a possible Sindhi insurrection if the establishment or Taliban succeed in knocking off Zardari, the Shia dissatisfaction in Gilgit, are all indicators of retreat of Pakistani state.

The economy is in doldrums.

PA is in a swamp in almost all theaters, with no chance of being able to take on India anymore.

So agreeing to a peace settlement, where we leave the Northern Areas in Pakistani hands will be the next strategic loss.

This whole exercise could also be again part of some grand plan hatched in Washington, where a Kashmir Agreement, should allow Pakistan to be denuked, as then the civilians could claim, that India is no more a threat. India is up for general elections in about 6-7 months. After that all the understandings which Washington may have helped in facilitating between MMS and Musharraf would fall apart. Zardari basically only has to take out the folder already prepared by Musharraf and try to strike a deal with Delhi, on what is already agreed.

The whole turmoil in J&K lately could have been part of some script, to push Indians to accept MMS's proposal for a Grand Peace.

That is probably another reason, why Zardari keeps on imploring Nawaz Sharif to rejoin his Govt. as some sort of insurance against the big outcry that is going to go up in Pakistan. Another question is whether besides begging for some alms, whether Zardari would also be talking about a Kashmir solution on his visit to China.

If Denuking of Pakistan is part and parcel of this solution, then and only then, can this idea be worth pursuing.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 09 Sep 2008 20:15

Body of one more ultra recovered from encounter sight near LoC
9/9/2008 8:24:55 PM

Body of one more militant was recovered near the Line of Control (LoC) in Karnah sector of Jammu and Kashmir, raising the death toll in last week's gunbattle between Pakistani infiltrators and army in the area to four, a police spokesman said today (Sep 9).

Elsewhere in the state, an unidentified militant and a civilian were killed and a militant of Lashker-e-Toiba outfit was arrested since last night, the spokesman said.

He said body of an unidentified militant was recovered near the tony post, the scene of Friday's gunbattle between infiltrators and the army, in Karnah sector of Kupwara district during the ongoing search operation.

An AK assault rifle, a magazine, nine rounds, an IED circuit and some edibles were recovered from the possession of the slain militant, who was part of a group of militants who were killed while trying to sneak into the valley from across the border, the spokesman said.

Three militants were killed when the troops foiled the infiltration attempt on September 5th. The bodies of the trio along with a huge cache of arms and ammunition were recovered by the troops the following morning.

In an encounter during search operations at Maidanpora-Tekipora in Kupwara district today (Sep 9), security forces shot dead an unidentified militant, the spokesman said adding some arms and ammunition were recovered from him.

In another incident, militants shot dead a 30-year-old person identified as Mohammad Iqbal inside his house at Dedni Khabarni in Goha sector of Doda district yesterday.

Police arrested a militant of LET outfit from Dudoo-Marhama in Anantnag district today and recovered a pistol, two grenades and some ammunition from him, the spokesman said.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 09 Sep 2008 21:02

RajeshA, I agree with you assessment of the J&K and the TSP situation. However I dont agree that denuking TSP is worth giving up the claim on the Northern Areas and access to Central Asia. The nuke threat from TSP is already accounted for and would be a qauntitaive increase and not qualitative. Access to Central Asia is worth more than the denuking TSP for they can be rearmed as easily by PRC and who knows who else if it suits their purposes.

In fact I wonder if its the old game of "we will call of the nuke armed pit bull why dont you hand over J&K as a sop" game that was played in the 90s.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby RajeshA » 09 Sep 2008 21:29

Ramana Ji,
Denuking of Pakistan is the Pakistan-specific Nuclear Arrangement of the whole of the civilised world (except China, West Asian countries don't really count). The question arises, what is the mechanism that Washington may have thought of. Does this mechanism necessarily include a Kashmir Arrangement between India and Pakistan, and whether MMS would fall for it, in his missionary zeal of solving India's perennial problems using some strategic concessions?

I do agree, a better solution would be to keep Pakistan's balls firmly in our hands, and squeeze them appropriately in case they misbehave, i.e. keep a lid on the Kashmir boil and terrorism in India until a time comes, when Northern Areas fall like a ripe fruit into India's lap.

Question is: could missionary zeal or loss of control short-circuit our strategic patience?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 09 Sep 2008 22:22

Mughal Road connecting Jammu and Srinagar nears end

Rajouri, September 9 (ANI): A land route used by the Mughals when they invaded Kashmir is now being reborn as a modern engineering marvel connecting two sides of the Himalayan region. The long awaited Mughal Road- an alternative highway between the summer capital Srinagar and winter capital Jammu -is just three months away from completion.

Residents say the road, once completed would slice off a huge distance.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby RamaY » 09 Sep 2008 22:38

If there is ever a dream that some piece of land falls on someone's lap, that is not going to happen. It is too much a value for NA to fall in India's lap just like that... All the world powers, in one way or other, want and force that piece to be an independent this or that, instead of falling in India's lap.

Once India has claims POK+NA, that move itself achieves three strategic objectives...

1 - De-linking the taller-than-mountains friends, pak and prc with India in between
2 - Access to CAR energy resources
3 - Access to Afghanistan thru which India can influence Paki strategic depth...

So claims on POK and NA are many times worth of a de-nuked pakibannis... infact, the nukes in these mad asses can usher peril to them from the superpowers themselves... thus leaving india alone...

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 10 Sep 2008 02:56

From Deccan Chronicle, 10 Sept., 2008

Zardari has news on J&K


Islamabad, Sept. 9: Pakistan’s new President Asif Ali Zardari on Tuesday said that backdoor negotiations were on with India and the nation would “hear good news about Kashmir” soon, possibly “within a month” and definitely before India’s general elections, due next year.

Shortly after being sworn-in, Mr Zardari thanked the people of Pakistan for “their trust”. Mr Zardari said he accepted the presidency in the name of his slain wife Benazir Bhutto and the “martyrs of democracy”. He said his Pakistan People’s Party does not believe in the politics of vendetta, and would not victimise anybody, including Pervez Musharraf. “Parliament will decide about the fate of the former President. My party does not believe in victimising anybody. I have been a victim myself, so would not try it on anybody.”



Disturbing.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Rahul M » 10 Sep 2008 03:01

Avinash R wrote:Mughal Road connecting Jammu and Srinagar nears end

Rajouri, September 9 (ANI): A land route used by the Mughals when they invaded Kashmir is now being reborn as a modern engineering marvel connecting two sides of the Himalayan region. The long awaited Mughal Road- an alternative highway between the summer capital Srinagar and winter capital Jammu -is just three months away from completion.

Residents say the road, once completed would slice off a huge distance.

vast quantities of real forest land was destroyed in this project, unlike the AY land which is barren.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby fanne » 10 Sep 2008 03:05

If what is happening in JK is right based on what people are suspecting, what does that make Arundhati Roy (The first person to make the call for India's balkanization, duly picked by other traitors and idiots)- A paid agent of the west? A running bitc* of the emperialists? Well she was not a great writer to begin with but one always wondered how come she won enough money from western based awards at regular intervals to live a comfy life. If there was any case of an agent of a foreign country paid in broad day light, this would take the cake. So she did it for few 100 thousad pounds? Huh
rgds,
fanne

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sum » 10 Sep 2008 09:00

Praveen Swami uvacha:
Link
An Islamist’s resurrection in Kashmir

Praveen Swami

Tehreek-i-Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani has emerged as the principal secessionist voice in Jammu and Kashmir. What does it portend?

Syed Ali Shah Geelani woke up shortly after four in the morning and turned on the radio — the sole news source in the beautiful but sparse mountain cottage which briefly served as his prison last month. Half an hour later, an attendant who brought tea heard Kashmir’s Islamist patriarch sobbing quietly. News was coming in about an encounter near Jammu, which had claimed the lives of three terrorists, three soldiers and five civilians. “So many people have given their lives for the movement I lead,” Mr. Geelani said, “I will have no answers to give them in the hereafter should I falter now.” :-?

Four years ago, when he was released from prison and flown on a government jet to the Tata Memorial Hospital in Mumbai :x :x , Mr. Geelani’s autumn appeared to be upon him. He faced an uphill battle against cancer — and what appeared an even more certain defeat at the hands of his political adversaries.

On his return to Kashmir, Mr. Geelani found himself sidelined by the Jamaat-e-Islami, the party he had led for years. Worse, in 2005, the Mirwaiz Umar Farooq-led All Parties Hurriyat Conference opened negotiations with New Delhi, breaking with its historic rejection of a dialogue that did not include Pakistan. Less than three years later, though, Mr. Geelani has become the principal voice of the Islamist movement against India. How did this come about?

In the build-up to the Assembly elections, which were scheduled to have been held in October, the APHC’s doves began pushing for a dialogue with New Delhi. Part of the reason lay in a successful campaign by the People’s Democratic Party to recruit influential secessionists. The former Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front supreme council member, Pir Mansoor Husain, became party president Mehbooba Mufti’s political advisor; the former Jamaat-e-Islami chief Ghulam Mohammad Bhat’s brother, Abdul Khaliq Bhat, was lined up to contest from Sopore; Mirwaiz Farooq’s trusted lieutenant, Mohammad Yakub Vakil, too, joined the PDP in search of a seat.

APHC leaders could see the writing on the wall. As things stood, the secessionist formation would see its ranks slowly eroded by unionist parties or be forced to join in the dialogue with New Delhi after accepting that it was not the sole voice of the people of Jammu and Kashmir. If the secessionist cause was to survive, leaders like Mirwaiz Farooq argued, its leaders had to open a dialogue with India — and consider terms short of independence.

Mr. Geelani charged the realists with treachery. Speaking at a religious conference in Baramulla on May 26, he warned his audience that the stakes were too high for their defeatism. India was seeking to change “the Muslim majority into a minority by settling down troops along with their families here permanently.” “After turning Kashmiri Muslims into a minority,” he continued, “it will either massacre Muslims as it did in Jammu in 1947 or carry out a genocide as was done in Gujarat.”

Ever since 2006, Mr. Geelani has used similar polemic to build a new mass constituency. He welded together elements of the pious petty bourgeoisie, and angry, lumpenised young people from the middle and lower-middle classes who felt that they were denied a share of prosperity and power. Similar class alliances, the work of French scholar Oliver Roy has shown, propelled Islamists to prominence across much of West Asia and north Africa. In Kashmir, Mr. Geelani built his campaign on the twin pillars of piety and paranoia, arguing that Islam and Kashmiri identity were being threatened.{usual Islam Khatre mein hai slogan}

When the Amarnath Shrine Board protests began in June 2008, a configuration of circumstances helped Mr. Geelani turn the tables on his tormentors. He, for one, was the sole politician with the tools needed to build a credible mass movement. More important, as the former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf’s fortunes waned, Mr. Geelani’s allies in Pakistan — particularly the Lashkar-e-Taiba and hardliners in the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate — became increasingly powerful. During a visit to Dubai in February, Mirwaiz Farooq is believed to have been bluntly told to accept Mr. Geelani’s leadership. Fearing for his life should he refuse, the cleric agreed. The shrine board protests provided him the perfect pretext for pushing the proposal past anti-Geelani moderates in the APHC.

In the secret June 19 unification declaration that brought the Mirwaiz and Mr. Geelani together, a copy of which has been obtained by The Hindu, the APHC dropped the option of direct talks with the Indian government — thus addressing the Islamist leader’s long-standing grievance.

“Both sides,” the document states, “after considerable argument and discussion, reached the conclusion that the Hurriyat Conference will continue its political struggle for self-determination, which can be achieved through tri-partite talks against the backdrop of the historic struggle of the Kashmiris and their numerous sacrifices.” “It was decided,” the document continues, “that both the Hurriyat groups will, on an interim basis, maintain their respective identities but strengthen [the] mechanism to achieve the right to self-determination by appointing a six-member team made up of three representatives from each side. The committee will go into the 1993 Hurriyat constitution and make any necessary amendments.”

Ironically, the document contained just two words about the issue which leaders of both factions said that they had united to pursue. “Shrine Board,” read the third clause — followed by a blank space. Just two days later, the Mirwaiz flew to Pakistan.

“We have not yet decided who is to lead us. Do you accept me as your leader,” Mr. Geelani asked the mass of protesters who had gathered at Srinagar’s Tourism Reception Centre on August 18. Tens of thousands of hands waved back, signalling their assent.

Reinvented in Mr. Geelani’s image, how would the secessionist movement look like? Few doubt that the United Jihad Council and the Lashkar will have a renewed influence on the contours and content of secessionist politics. It was the UJC that called for a march to Muzaffarabad on August 6, a day before fruit growers set a date for the fateful effort. Mr. Geelani has also ensured the deepening of the Lashkar’s integration with Kashmir’s secessionist politics. He discussed the Muzaffarabad march with the Lashkar’s spiritual and political head, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, on August 11 — and followed it up with addressing a convention organised by the proscribed terror group on Pakistan’s independence day. Two weeks ago, the Lashkar and the Hizb staged joint rallies in Muzaffarabad.

But the staff at Mr. Geelani’s prison-cottage in Gulmarg had a firsthand view of the most important consequence of all. Mirwaiz Farooq, imprisoned along with Mr. Geelani last month, was given the sole cottage in Gulmarg which had a television set.{Yindoos playing off each other?} Even as Mr. Geelani spent the morning of August 27 listening to the news from Jammu, the young Srinagar cleric watched cricket. Where Mr. Geelani complained to the staff about what he described as a growing culture of aggressive materialism in Kashmir, the Mirwaiz joked about cricket star Mahendra Singh Dhoni’s new hair colour.

Above all, Mr. Geelani’s rise marks the triumph of a vision of Kashmir which rejects its integration into modern high capitalism. His Islam articulates the concerns of social classes angered by the inequity in the wake of economic growth; for a social order threatened by a pluralist, commodity-based culture; and, perhaps ironically given his age, for the rage of young people who stand at the gates of the earthly paradise that a fast-growing India has promised them, only to find they are denied entry by communal prejudice.{Cant believe Swami spouts this BS in every article :roll: }
Islamic nizamiat

In his pronouncements in recent weeks, the Islamist patriarch himself has left the world in little doubt of his ideological agenda. Speaking to the New Delhi-based journalist Aasha Khosa, Mr. Geelani called for the creation of an Islamic nizamiat, or state, in which the “creed of socialism and secularism should not touch our lives and we must be totally governed by the Koran and the Sunnat [precedents from Prophet Muhammad’s life].”

For long, Mr. Geelani has argued that Hinduism and Islam are locked in an irreducible civilisational opposition. At an October 26, 2007 rally in Srinagar, he demanded that “the people of the State should, as their religious duty, raise their voice against India’s aggression [emphasis added].” This duty stemmed from the fact that “practising Islam completely under the subjugation of India is impossible because human beings practically worship those whose rules they abide by.”

For those familiar with the work of Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian Islamist whose work deeply inspired the global jihadist movement in general and Osama bin-Laden in particular, this argument will be familiar. Qutb argued for a radical reorganisation of “relations between the Islamic community and other camps, whether idolaters or people of earlier revelations.” He asserted that it had proved “impossible to achieve coexistence between two diametrically opposed ways of life.”

“Osama has come only during the last few years,” rasped Mr. Geelani in a recent interview. “People like me have been fighting for this all our lives.” He is right. Everyone who cares for the future of democratic rights in Jammu and Kashmir ought to be paying close attention.

The GoI provides the turd a special plane for his treatment and he repays in kind!!!!!

If Mirwaiz farooq is called a unionist/pro-Indian, god help India hold onto Kashmir...

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 10 Sep 2008 09:12

Its good that he is providing the leadership role for the Partitionists. Cant think of a better person for the job - pious and parochial!

Only thing is parochial doesn't aling with his TSP merging desire. So there is a built-in dichotomy in him.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby G Subramaniam » 10 Sep 2008 09:28

Jyoti Thottam wants independence for kashmir

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 86,00.html


Valley of Tears
Thursday, Sep. 04, 2008 By JYOTI THOTTAM
Enlarge Photo
CRY FREEDOM: Separatists protest in Kashmir's capital, Srinagar, on Aug. 23
DAR YASIN / AP
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When I left New York City for New Delhi earlier this year, I thought Kashmir would be a "good news" story. The valley had been relatively quiet for years, and in April and May Kashmir was celebrating record numbers of tourists. By August, however, normalcy had been replaced by strife, death, curfews and checkpoints. The immediate cause of the conflict this time was a dispute between Muslims and Hindus over 100 acres (40 hectares) of land near the Amarnath shrine in the Kashmir valley, which Indian authorities had granted to a Hindu pilgrim group. A compromise now gives the group exclusive use, but not permanent title, to the land — which they will use to build temporary shelters during their annual trek — and the protests have subsided. But the prospect of losing any territory has brought back to the surface the decades of unresolved anger Kashmiris have bottled up against the Indian government.
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India and Pakistan fought over Kashmir after partition, and a Kashmiri separatist movement has been fighting to eject Indian troops from the region since 1989. The separatists' trump card has always been the threat to join Pakistan, which supported them with guns and guerrillas. India eventually silenced the separatists with force, but Amarnath has reignited their movement. The cries of "Azadi" (Freedom) and the Pakistani flags waving above the crowd of 500,000 people at one particularly fierce protest on Aug. 18 made the point that Kashmiris were once again ready to leave India.

This time, many Indians seem willing to let them go. "Why are we still hanging on to Kashmir if the Kashmiris don't want to have anything to do with us?" wrote columnist Vir Sanghvi in the Hindustan Times. "Is it time the K-word got out of India, and India out of the K-word?" asked political satirist Jug Suraiya in the Times of India. Novelist Arundhati Roy argued that "India needs azadi from Kashmir just as much — if not more — than Kashmir needs azadi from India."

These are words that, in India, one rarely says aloud. Through military force, acts of Parliament and two wars with Pakistan, India has held on tightly to Kashmir, and its attachment has always been a bit romantic. It isn't just the beauty of its lush valleys and jewel-like lakes. Kashmir is a test of the Indian national idea. Insisting that Muslim-majority Kashmir should and can be a part of Hindu-majority India speaks to the notion, admirable but perhaps naive, that a coherent, secular democracy can be fashioned out of dozens of different languages and faiths. To hold on to Kashmir, even by force, was to pledge, implicitly, that the people of Kashmir would be better off as a part of India than as a part of Pakistan.

What does it say about India that people are losing faith, or losing interest, in Kashmir? It is a sign of frustration, first of all, with India's political failure to live up to that promise of unity in diversity. Over the years, the Indian government has poured millions of dollars of aid into Kashmir and spent millions more putting down the separatist insurgency. But it fails to understand that peace isn't just the absence of fighting. It's in the political details: withdrawing the half-million Indian troops who still occupy Kashmir, developing the local economy and, most importantly, accounting for what human-rights groups say are widespread abuses committed against Kashmiri civilians by the military.

The Indian government hasn't addressed these tough issues, leaving Kashmir angry and restive. And so all it took to shatter Kashmir's fragile peace was one blunder — the tone-deaf move this summer to transfer those 100 acres of land near Amarnath. It set off not one but two ferocious protest movements — by Hindu nationalists and by Kashmiri separatists — who have fueled each other's frenzy.

Indians seem to have come to terms with the idea that the separatists really are Kashmiri — not some proxy force sent in from the shadows of Pakistan. But that only makes it easier to see Kashmir as yet another one of India's secessionist struggles, to be subdued and eventually co-opted. Today, the possibility of losing Kashmir to Pakistan seems remote: Pakistan has its own insurgencies to worry about, and if the people of Kashmir ever get their long-promised plebiscite, it's unlikely that they would choose to trade India's occupation for Pakistan's instability.

Of course, it's equally unlikely that any Indian government would actually let go of Kashmir. But if India loses its quixotic attachment to Kashmir, the state could become just like any other place in India where millions of grievances go unheard as a busy nation turns its attention elsewhere. And the romance would end, as romances usually do, in indifference.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 10 Sep 2008 09:32

ramana wrote:Its good that he is providing the leadership role for the Partitionists. Cant think of a better person for the job - pious and parochial!

Only thing is parochial doesn't aling with his TSP merging desire. So there is a built-in dichotomy in him.

What he is behind is that Islamic state is no longer viable and will not work in the 21st century.

He has to abondon it. This is a fantasy for KM who do not control things outside the valley.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby vishwakarmaa » 10 Sep 2008 09:43

Cross posting from X-?-forum.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... cleId=2319

Future Map of ME,Pak,POk.
http://www.payvand.com/news/06/dec/MEmapTHEN-s.jpg

I found someone posting this in an online forum, with no word on source.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Prem » 10 Sep 2008 09:44

We can only hope and pray Gillani die fighting for his never fulfilling dream!! Nothing wrong in curing him from disease ,revenge better served cold. Noe he dies everyday looking at kaffir yindoos spitting on his face every moment and his mentor across the borders can do nothing. Let him and his friends enjoy their impotancy .

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby G Subramaniam » 10 Sep 2008 09:44

More seculars oppose Amarnath agreement

http://www.khabrein.info/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=88

he Land Deal in Kashmir: A Dangerous Surrender to the Jammu Agitators PDF Print E-mail
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Page 1 of 2

PRESS STATEMENT

We the undersigned academics, and others express grave concern at how the dispute over grant of land to the Amarnath Board in Kashmir is being handled by our political authorities. Over four weeks the agitators in Jammu were allowed by the administration to impose a blockade of Kashmir, which, despite official denials practically continued till the end of August. Those whom Mr LK Advani and others call "nationalists" , committed crime, arson and mayhem in Jammu, while waving the national flag. They have themselves proved to the most effective separatists since they entirely separated Kashmir from the rest of the country, and tried to starve out the people of the very area they are never tired of pronouncing an integral part of India. By allowing them to do so and by making concession after concession to them the Government of India cannot escape the stigma of colluding with them.

When on the other hand, driven to desperation, the people of Kashmir valley protested against the blockade, as many as forty persons were shot dead by the military, para-military and police forces. In the talks with the Jammu agitators through an all-party delegation headed by the Home Minister, the agitators secured the exclusion of the representatives of the Kashmir parties (PDP and NC) despite an invitation issued to them. No compensation for those killed and injured by army and police firings in the Kashmir valley has been so far announced, in contrast to what was done swiftly in Jammu. And now the final act of collusion with the Jammu agitators has taken place, by the revocation of the Governor's own order of 29 June and the re-allotment of the 800 kanals of land "exclusively" to the Amarnath Shrine Board. The agreement was announced at a "joint" press conference of the Governor's representative and the Jammu agitators on 31 August.

The deal's details made it clear that limitation to "the duration of yatra" is a mere formality, since no power is given to the Government of Jammu and Kashmir over how the Shrine Board deals with the land "from time to time". It is also clear that the special concessions, under paras 9 and 10 of the agreement, about withdrawal of cases and compensation to agitators are confined to Jammu and not made applicable to the Kashmir Division.

Page 2 of 2


No persons sincerely interested in opposing the movement for Kashmir's secession can support this deal, which is naturally seen in Kashmir as an unjust and provocative act. If we wish to retain Kashmir as part of our country we should stop treating the Kashmiri people as aliens and let them decide what to do with their land. We therefore call upon all fellow-citizens to join us in demanding a revocation of the deal and the establishment of a proper rule of law in the whole State of Jammu and Kashmir.

Professor R.S. Sharma (Patna)

Professor Suvira Jaiswal (Hyderabad)

Professor Keshavan Veluthat (Mangalore)

Professor R.L. Shukla (Delhi)

Professor Irfan Habib (Aligarh)

Professor H.C. Satyarthi (Muzaffarpur)

Professor Shireen Moo svi (Aligarh)

Professor D.N. Jha (Delhi)

Professor Pradeep Saxena (Aligarh)

Professor Iqtidar Alam Khan (Aligarh)

Dr Ramesh Rawat (Aligarh)

Professor Sayera I. Habib (Aligarh)

Dr Prabhat Shukla (New Delhi)

Dr S. Ali Nadeem Rezavi (Aligarh)

Professor Rajan Gurukkal (Mangalore)

Dr Shamim Akhtar (Aligarh)

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby jamwal » 10 Sep 2008 15:26

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/08sep09/index.html
Divergent views in all party meet
NEW DELHI, Sept 8: Political parties today voiced divergent views at their separate meetings with the Election Commission over the timing of holding Assembly elections in Jammu and Kashmir which are due this year.

While the main regional party, National Conference choose not to give any recommendation about holding polls and demanded that the Government must first take corrective steps to restore normalcy in the Kashmir valley, the Congress party steered clear of the issue leaving it to the Election Commission to decide the timing.

However, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Left Parties demanded that elections should be held on schedule by November end. The People’s Democratic Party (PDP) stoutly opposed holding of elections at the present juncture while Jammu and Kashmir National Panthers Party (JKNPP) and Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) wanted delimitation be done first before finalising the date.

Talking to reporters after attending a meeting with the Chief Election Commissioner N Gopalaswami, National Conference president, Omar Abdullah said that any election in Jammu and Kashmir with "less than expected turnout" will not solve any purpose, adding "we told the Election Commission that for holding election, ground situation must be conducive. The atmosphere must be peaceful so that all sections of people can take part in the polls".

He said that EC has called the National Conference to give its view on the ground situation prevailing in the State, especially in the wake of recent violent incidents following the Amarnath land row.

"EC did not ask regarding elections. So we did not give any recommendation to EC on holding polls. We have given our views on the current prevailing situation in the State. We said the need of the hour is to take corrective steps in Kashmir," he said.

Asked whether the NC would boycott the polls if the EC announces the election dates now, Mr Abdullah evaded a direct reply saying the party working committee will take a decision on it at the appropriate time.

Congress, which sent a big delegation including Union Minister of State in the PMO Prithviraj Chavan, PCC chief Saifuddin Soz and former Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad left it to the EC to decide the date.

"We will cooperate whatever the dates the EC decides," Chavan and Soz said after the meeting with the Election Commission.

Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) delegation comprising party’s vice president Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, R P Singh and R Ramakrishna of the party’s election cell, told the EC that they were in favour of State polls between October and November, before expiry of the term of the current Assembly in November.

"We asserted that the situation in Jammu and Kashmir was even worse in 2002, when the polls were held in the State. There had been ‘‘open threats and calls for boycott of elections’’ but the Commission held them peacefully to strengthen the democratic set up in the country", Mr Naqvi told the reporters after the meeting.

The law and order situation in the State was "near to normalcy" today and there should be no reason for the delay in elections, he added although conceding there could be some stray incidents which should not deter "determination to hold free and fair polls."

"We are against holding the elections now. We have requested the EC not to hold the polls as situation in the State is not conducive," PDP general secretary Nizamuddin Bhat told reporters after meeting Chief Election Commissioner N Gopalaswami.

Bhat said there was "no rule of law" and the feeling of alienation in the minds of the people was very high.

"The Government’s authority has been weakened. People’s anger is very high. Election is now a non-issue. Any fiddling with the current situation will further dent the system," he said, adding "unfortunate" land row incident had polarised the two regions on communal lines.

CPI national secretary D Raja and CPI(M) politburo member Ramachandran Pillai echoed views that elections should be held on time. "But the EC should ensure free and fair polls," Raja said.

NCP and Panthers Party, however, demanded that delimitation of the constituencies should be done first before finalising the dates. The JKNPP delegation comprised party chief Prof Bhim Singh, former legislators Harsh Dev Singh and Yashpal Kundal and president Delhi Pradesh NPP Sanjoy Sachdev.

The decision to call leaders of seven national parties and three State parties was taken last week by the Commission as the Governor’s rule in the State ends on January 10.

The Election Commission decided to meet political parties to assess the situation in the State after doubts were expressed over the possibility of holding Assembly polls in the wake of the recent violence over the Amarnath land row.

In the normal course, the tenure of the Assembly was to expire on November 20. However, the Assembly was dissolved on July 10 and Governor’s rule imposed following a political crisis in the wake of the Amarnath land row which triggered violence in Jammu region and the Kashmir valley resulting in imposition of curfew in both parts for prolonged periods.

A sense of normalcy has returned to Jammu following the agreement with the Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti but the Valley continues to be tense with separatists raking up issues beyond the land controversy.

Also, if elections are to be held, then it has to be done by November because the weather conditions in the Valley are not conducive after the onset of winter.

After receiving inputs from political parties, the EC is expected to meet the Union Home Secretary to take Government’s view on elections.




PDP has lost support in every section except some hardcore paki/azadi agents. That explains the turn about on elections after they brought down the govt.
Congress is demoralized after people in Jammu poured their fury on senior politicians including former Deputy CM.
NC is in two minds, but IMHO it has an advantage over PDP right now.
Only BJP looks ready for elections this year.

IMHO, any election in state are useless unless delimitation of seats is carried out. Most of Jammu division except Jammu, Kathua, Samba and Udhampur districst has a sizeable presence of pro-paki Islamists. Without delimitation things are unlikely to change for better.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby CRamS » 10 Sep 2008 18:46

Jyothi Thotam is a SAJA dorkette. I know her.

Lets wait till we hear the 'good news' that Zardari promised. Only that will confirm if MMS has surrendered to Isalmic fasicts and these demented elite, or he has a strain of nationalism in him.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby VickersB » 10 Sep 2008 19:02

Why wait for what Zardari has to say - is there any way one can find out what's on his agenda before something is inked and is too late? any newspaper reports, articles, his press reports hinting to this?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Gerard » 10 Sep 2008 19:14

vishwakarmaa wrote:Cross posting from X-?-forum.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... cleId=2319
Future Map of ME,Pak,POk.
http://www.payvand.com/news/06/dec/MEmapTHEN-s.jpg
I found someone posting this in an online forum, with no word on source.



This is from Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters' article in Armed Forces Journal, June 2006,

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby satya » 10 Sep 2008 19:21

Zardari's statement regarding ' good news on Kashmir' implies a continuation of TSP-establishment policy initiated under ABV-MMS carried on to MMS-MMS and now MMS-Zardari thereby all those 'out of box' solutions are very much in place.

It also implies tht TSPA's crore commanders are backing Zardari to carry on where Mushy left . From Indian PoV , it clearly implies inspite of all talks being poles apart by BJP and Congress, they are on same boat regarding J&K and TSP . If there's a sellout as many forum members are fearing then BJP is in hand in gloves with Congress and if there's a breakthrough ( something on line of Nuclear deal ) with BJP making all sorts of noises and nothing more then it also means they have an agreement . Either way , there's consensus .

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby VickersB » 10 Sep 2008 19:51

Unfortunately this is still all speculation - who's hand-in-glove with whom, who's in bed with whom is still all just that - speculation. There seems to some kind of consensus, but what that is, is still anyone's guess - my guess would be the conversion of yellowsea to redsea, permanent boarders - now would that mean that we give up on Northern Areas and POK is the question.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby CRamS » 10 Sep 2008 20:45

Lets not skirt the issue and be deluded. In the absence of any pressure that India can bring to bear on TSP, why would TSP accept an yellow sea == ibee settlement? In purely military terms, India has physical possesion of the valley which is what TSP covets; but TSP has got its LetPiglets and KMs who can thwart any political move by India in a heartbeat and also control the ground situation. Furthermore, in politcal/diplomatic terms, KMs want to seceede from India and at least until they get their dreams of 'azzadi' its a moot point whether they want to join TSP or not; they are pro-TSP until that point. Finally, by and large the entire west (and India's elite both NRI and RNIs) are sympathetic to the secssionist argument and India is the bad guy argument. Under such overhwlemingly favorable circumstances to TSP, in any 'peace' or 'negotiated' settlement talks, they can throw the yellow sea == ibee suggestion out of the window, because the LoC is the 'dispute' as Mush has said many times, and India has done nothing to disabuse TSP of that notion.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby VickersB » 10 Sep 2008 21:06

We'll wait and see what Mr. Zumzamadari has up his sleeve and what has been negotiated and until then all the :(( about NRI/RNI/BNI/KM arguments will have to wait. BTW yellow see == ibee solution isn't the best of deals for India wrt TSP

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby G Subramaniam » 11 Sep 2008 09:50

http://www.kmsnews.org/news/indian-civi ... -kashmiris

Indian civil society supports the right of self-determination of Kashmiris

New Delhi, September 10 (KMS): In New Delhi, Indian Civil Society has urged the New Delhi government to respect the right of self-determination which was the only way forward for the resolution of Kashmir issue.

The meeting was organized by the PUCL, PUDR and Janahastakshep in New Delhi.

The speakers said that the agreement reached between the Jammu based organisation and the Indian government, through its Governor in Jammu and Kashmir is an appeasement of the Hindutva forces and singularly fails to follow the recommendations of the Nitish Sengupta Committee (1996) which had proposed curtailment of the Amarnath Yatra to 30 days and restricting the number of yatris to one lakh. This appeasement was compounded by the bloodletting in Kashmir valley resulting in death of 50 and injury to more than 2000 persons.

The speakers said that repression is back in vogue with Indian troops singling out local leaders with arrests, beating, booking some under draconian Public Safety Act, and filing of more than 250 cases. In contrast, as part of the agreement with the agitators in Jammu, persons charged with various violent acts have been allowed to go scot-free and may in fact, as part of the deal struck, be provided with compensation.

Massive and peaceful outpouring on the streets of Srinagar and elsewhere in Kashmir Valley ought to be met with meaningful political dialogue, which ought to revolve around the right of self-determination of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

The prominent speakers who spoke in the meeting were Arundhati Roy, Prem Shankar Jha, Javeed Naqvi, Sanjay Kak, Dr. Aparna CPI (ML) New Democracy, G.N. Saibaba Revolutionary Democratic Front, Retd. Justice Rajinder Sachar People’s Union for Civil Liberties, Gautam Navlakha People's Union for Democratic Rights, S.A.R. Gilani Committee for Release of Political Prisoners.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Airavat » 12 Sep 2008 08:19

Settle POJ refugees before cross-LOC trade

The Government should go in for the comprehensive settlement of refugees before starting trade with Pakistan through Pak occupied Jammu (PoJ).

Talking to reporters here today, chairman of the SOS-International, Rajiv Chuni, strongly criticised the Central Government for its failure to ensure permanent settlement of the cases of the PoK refugees. He said the Government of India should have demonstrated its constitutional claim over J&K’s territory occupied by Pakistan.

Otherwise such moves may weaken the claim of the Government of India on the PoJ.

"We are not being given the status of refugees by the Central Government because the PoJ is being considered an integral part of the State as well as country despite illegal occupation of Pak and no Government would seek permission from others for visit of its citizens to its own land," Mr Chuni maintained.

Dr Gurmeet Singh general secretary said if the Government of India wants trade ties with Pakistan through PoJ, it should first settle over sixty years long pending issue of the refugees. Opposing opening of trade routes, he said this move would further give rise to terrorism in J&K. Moreover, it would jeopardize India’s claim over State area under Pakistan’s occupation.

Others present in the conference included D V Gupta, R K Kohli, Suchwant Singh, Mohinder Singh, J S Mangal, Lalit Kumar, Kulwant Singh, Sohan Singh and Mohinder Singh.


Which political parties in J&k are supporting this just demand? These Hindu and Sikh refugees have been disfranchised by the Kashmir-based politicians, who have absolutely no stake in recovering either POJ or Gilgit-Baltistan.

The BJP is so gung-ho about sweeping the polls that it has even dropped its earlier demand for delimitation of seats in Jammu. They should at least make a promise in their manifesto to give voting rights, and the reserved 24 seats in the J&K assembly, to these suffering millions scattered across North India.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 12 Sep 2008 11:58

3 Huji militants killed in gunbattle in JK

Jammu, Sept 12 (PTI) Three Huji militants, including a self-style commander, were today killed in a fierce gunbattle with the security forces in Jammu and Kashmir's Kishtwar district.

Acting on a tip-off, troops of 11 Rashtriya Rifles launched an operation in Chigam area of the district and in subsequent encounter killed three militants and recovered arms and ammunition from the spot, sources said.

They said two of the slain militants have been identified as Saifulla (area commander) and Mohammad Akbar, while the identity of the third person is yet to be ascertained.

Rifles, grenades and other explosive materials were recovered from the spot, they said. PTI


Same news with more info
Top HuJI militant killed in encounter
9/12/2008 8:10:06 AM

Top HuJI Commander Akbar Chechi and two more militants were killed in an overnight encounter with the security forces in Chatroo of the Kishtwar district in Jammu and Kashmir. Akbar Chechi is said to be behind the killing of Border Roads Officer (BRO) officer Lieutenant Colonel Ajay Verma.

The encounter with the 11 Rashtriya Rifles began late Thursday (September 11) night and lasted for four hours. However, no casualties have been reported.

Acting on a tip-off, the troops launched an operation and in subsequent encounter killed three militants and recovered rifles, grenades and other explosive materials from the spot.

On September 7, two top ultras, one each of Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), and a soldier were killed and seven jawans injured in three separate encounters in the state. (Read more)

The number of encounters has escalated with the increase in infiltration bids along the Line of Control (LoC) and the International Border. With the Jammu and Kashmir state elections around the corner, the army has upped their vigil to ensure peace is maintained in the state.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 12 Sep 2008 11:59

another encounter with LeT terrorists is going on.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Avinash R » 12 Sep 2008 16:57

3 HuJi terrorists + 2 LeT terrorists killed today.
2 LeT militants killed
Srinagar, Sept 12: Two militants of Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) were killed in a joint operation by the police and CRPF in Kupwara district.

The two were gunned down in an encounter last night at village Choti Marg in Kupwara after information was received about militants hiding in the village,a police spokesman said on Friday.

Two AK assault rifles, five magazines and 90 rounds of ammunition were recovered from the possession of the militants, whose identity was being ascertained.

Preliminary investigations have revealed that the slain militants were affiliated with LeT outfit, the spokesman added.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sum » 12 Sep 2008 20:08

The security apparatus seems to have got the go-ahead for full scale ops after the Valley based turds showing their true colors with Paki flag waving sessions...

Looks like spring cleaning in session... :twisted:

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby G Subramaniam » 13 Sep 2008 07:40

Dilip D Souza wants to give referendum

http://tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?fil ... oscons.asp

Democracy's Promise

Eights steps to a Kashmir referendum that India can win

DILIP D’SOUZA
procons

Illustration: Anand Naorem

WHAT CAN we do about Kashmir? Start by looking back less than two decades. By the early 1990s, it was clear. Call it socialism, hypocrisy, whatever — but 45 years of it had left India mired in poverty, its economy a mess, its foreign exchange hoard a pittance. India was floundering, a country desperate for change, desperate to find a way to unlock its vast potential.

What happened? Fresh thinking, circa ‘91. Words like “liberalisation”, “reform” and “privatisation” entered our vocabulary; India has gone through changes that now have a momentum of their own. There remain serious concerns, but some of what prompted the reforms has at least been addressed.

Today, there’s plenty of foreign exchange. Despite hiccups, the economy is, we hear, “booming”. Keen Indian companies are taking on the world. Our communications revolution is breathtaking. This is no longer the country of our first 40 years. Given how many Indians are filled with new confidence, this is the new frontier of opportunity. All because we thought beyond old certainties. Here’s my feeling: in the same way, Kashmir needs fresh thinking.

Consider where we are with Kashmir. For 60 years, we have fought over it with Pakistan. Starting in 1989, 300,000 of its residents were driven out, because of their religion. Terrorists killed many; others have spent years in squalid camps in Jammu and Delhi. In the state, more are killed every day even though Indian security forces are everywhere. This is a state desperate for change, desperate to find a way to unlock its great potential. How will that happen?

Fresh thinking, that’s how. Time for what Sting once sang: If you love someone, set them free. With Kashmir, say: “If you want to keep Kashmir, set it free.” And that's the true test of our new confidence: do we believe in India enough to let people decide for themselves their future in this country?

I believe in India enough to make my life here, a choice I consciously made. Since I made it, I believe others will, for similar reasons. I believe that if my India can sincerely, transparently and fairly offer Kashmiris their future, they will willingly choose India. As I did. So here’s what I propose.

One, announce today — today — that in exactly two years, India will hold a referendum to let Kashmir’s people decide their future. Two, announce that all of Jammu and Kashmir will vote, meaning also what Indians call POK, also the 300,000 who were driven out.

Three, remind the world about the UN resolution that first urged such a referendum (No. 47 of 1948). Clause 1 could hardly be a more explicit precondition: “The Government of Pakistan should undertake ... : a) To secure the withdrawal from the state of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the state for the purposes of fighting ...”.

Four, begin sincere, transparent and fair preparations for the referendum: publicise it in every language; offer people the choice to vote wherever they like, freedom and safety guaranteed. Withdraw Indian forces leaving only the police. Make arrangements for displaced Kashmiris to vote, even to return home to vote and live in dignity.

Five, make the world pay attention. Bring in international observers, allow journalists free access. Six, hold the referendum under the same gaze. Seven, report the result fairly and fully. Then, whatever it is, respect it.

The weak links? Points three and four. What is the guarantee that Pakistan will withdraw its forces, or allow POK to vote? Of course there are no guarantees. Yet if the process is fair and clean, public opinion will force Pakistan to go along. The weight of public opinion will verify that they hold up their end. Public opinion will be our skillfullywielded weapon to win hearts in Kashmir and around the world.

And then the choice is clear. In that corner, a fractious country that lapses regularly into military rule, poster-boy for the hoax of religious nationalism. Over here, a confident country that understands the promise of democracy. Which would you choose? Well, that’s why I believe Kashmir would choose India.


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