J & K news and discussion

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Gerard » 25 Aug 2008 23:43

Monumental folly
This disoriented silence is understandable. The Nehruvian project rested on the assumption that the emotional foundations of India would become unshakeable if the Muslim minority were allowed a generous measure of separateness and firewalled from the intrusions of both the secular state and civil society. Nehru believed that "temporary provisions" giving a special status to J&K in the form of Article 370 would reconcile Kashmiri sub-nationalism with Indian nationhood. A common civil code was also put on hold because he felt that in time Muslims would voluntarily accept the idea of non-religious personal laws.

While Nehru viewed separateness as a temporary balm on the scars of Partition, his successors elevated it to a non-negotiable tenet of Indian secularism. The results have been hideous. Far from nurturing a Amar-Akbar-Anthony form of multi-culturalism, separateness nurtured both ghettoisation and separatism. The perverse mindset of SIMI and IM activists, for example, is almost entirely a creation of the ghetto and centred on an abstract ummah that takes precedence over actual neighbours. The similarities between the IM mindset and the radical Islamism of the Pakistani ghettos in Britain are striking. And the problem in both countries has been encouraged by an intelligentsia that equates liberty with licence and turns every complaint into victimhood.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby jamwal » 25 Aug 2008 23:54

Image




Anybody knows urdu? Does it say Mosque at ‘Amarnath’- Baltal Land ?
http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby SBajwa » 26 Aug 2008 00:35

they eat and drink well up there and then
spit on the hand feeding them.
Last edited by Jagan on 26 Aug 2008 06:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Cool down.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby jamwal » 26 Aug 2008 00:37

G Subramaniam wrote:
jamwal wrote:
Supratik wrote:Questions for Jamwal.

2nd, KAshmiri Hindus will need massive financial aid in form of loans to start business or govt. jobs. Do you think fanatics in valley will allow that kind of help to Hindus without demanding their pound of flesh.


Would you agree that the average Kashmiri muslim is complicit in this
not just ISI or jihadis

IMHO, the only way that hindus can return to the valley is with israeli type settlements, meaning create exclusive hindu townships

The valley is simply an oil droplet like old city hyderabad

Return of hindus to the valley can be done only when hindus figure out the art of settling hindus in islamic oil droplets like Hyderabad or Mallapuram


Only way to get any answer is by talking to KAshmiri Muslims. But I'm stumped by their duplicity. I personaly know many Kashmiris. Most of the times they act liberal, disgusted with Muftis and Hurriyat. But some how most of them show aversion to accepting India as their nation. Some Kashmiris who have been outside the valley for studies, work etc. are reasonable, but born and bred are not. Even then, hatred for army is universal. Kashmiri pandits are thier "blood brothers" but approving thier return is not halaal till larger issue is solved. If you get the hint, Islam rules.

I'll tell you one incident. It occurred when Musharaf was in India for talks with Vajpayee. One close relative of mine is in Civil Sect. He got transferred and was alloted a new official car. That car was in Islamic green colour. By tradition, official cars are usually white.
Driver said, " Purane sahib ne bolaa, India Pakistan mein baat chal rahee hai. Kashmir to ab azaad hogaa hee. Abhee se hee teyaari kar lete hain".
This coming from an officer of State Administrative Service. :roll:
These people and 10 of their neighbours feed on crumbs tossed by India and they still have wet dreams of azadi.
Why not capture PoK, send this kind of scum to that territory and then grant azadi to that nwly liberated area.
That'll keep everybody happy



One good article

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1. ... iter=surya

For several days now, leaders of the Kashmiri separatist movement like Sajjad Lone have been repeatedly declaring that they will not give "even an inch of land" to the Sri Amarnath Shrine Board to provide facilities to Hindu pilgrims going to the holy cave in Kashmir. Alongside the uncouth behaviour and verbal threats of these so-called leaders of separatist outfits during television studio discussions, millions of Indians have also got to see demonstrators flaunting the Pakistan flag and raising pro-Pakistan slogans.


Many Indians who, thanks to the media boom, are exposed to this bigoted, intimidatory posture of Kashmiri separatists for the first time, are shocked. Till now they never knew that despite six decades of engagement with the world's largest and most vibrant democracy, people in the Kashmir Valley could be so far-removed from the liberal, democratic and secular framework within which the rest of India operates.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Raicharan » 26 Aug 2008 00:40

I am posting this questions again. Is their any reliable source to believe that there are 12 lakh POK refugees living in J & K without any voting right?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2008 00:42

Thank you Sbajwa for the fulminating post. It will cause further aleination of the rest of the folks.

Edit you post or if admins edit you will get onthe three strikes list.
I dont want that.
Its easy for everyone to get mad and post like above. It takes effort to come up with a win-win strategy.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby jamwal » 26 Aug 2008 00:48

Raicharan wrote:I am posting this questions again. Is their any reliable source to believe that there are 12 lakh POK refugees living in J & K without any voting right?


http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/a ... 0310d.html

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/51852

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2005/12/19/st ... 851300.htm

http://news.oneindia.in/2007/10/07/pok- ... 49615.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 926295.cms

Only doubt that I have about these refugees is where are they staying. They certainly don't have any voting rights. A large percentage lives in areas near Jammu, but I don't know exactly how many live in Jammu and in KAshmir.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2008 00:59

Raicharan, Since jamawal has posted those links maybe you can summarise the answer for the rest of the folks?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Tanaji » 26 Aug 2008 01:03

Well if SBajwa is wrong then we can always read this

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/25sd1.htm

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Rahul M » 26 Aug 2008 01:17

do rediff pages survive over time ? reason I'm asking is I may need to refer to these pages for an article on kashmir.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2008 01:28

ramana wrote:I think Geelani is acting under US controls.He claims to be a a Paki but it is rhetorical Paki like JFK was a Berliner. He can be under the TSP/ISI control as they are still trying to regroup after the Mushy out of office caper. Things were under control in J&K and then they simmer and then boil. Its a pattern in J&K from day one. Geelani is operating a false flag/red herring ruse. Don't know why but he is.


What if I am wrong and his real maters are the UK? Its only the UK that has long association with the Kashmiris.

What is the UK Kashmir supporters stand? Any squeaks from Lord Avebury?

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Mahendra » 26 Aug 2008 01:28

Kind Rahul Sirji

Rediff pages exist over time, just search phor them
On second thoughts, I am not sure, the comments exist though, thankfully I am not posting with there with own name
Last edited by Mahendra on 26 Aug 2008 01:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby sunilUpa » 26 Aug 2008 01:29

Rahul M wrote:do rediff pages survive over time ? reason I'm asking is I may need to refer to these pages for an article on kashmir.


I believe so, when I did a search for articles on DRDO, I could retrive 4-5 year old rediff articles .

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Rony » 26 Aug 2008 01:37

For peace with Pak, India has to be strong
The oddest fallacy within Delhi's current establishment is the conviction that Pakistan's India policy is leader-centric rather than a projection of national interest, which those in power might tinker with here, or twist there, but cannot shift from a fundamental axis: the belief that the Kashmir valley should be a part of Pakistan. Definitions of national interest take much longer to change than leaders.

If it is the prevailing view in the Manmohan Singh government that Islamabad's promotion of violence in Kashmir, either through directly sponsored terrorism, or encouragement of mass displays of disaffection, varies with the inclinations of individuals, then it is time to outsource Pakistan policy to less naive professionals.

A model often proposed at Washington-encouraged conferences has been a Kashmir delinked from Jammu and Ladakh, over which India might enjoy at best a face-saving, limited sovereignty. Trifurcation is the first step towards an "autonomous" or "quasi-independent" Kashmir, while Jammu and Ladakh, unleashed from Article 370, integrate fully with India.

To create the psychological conditions for such an option, we need the same mindset that persuaded enough Indian Hindus to agree to partition in 1947. On one margin today is the radical-soft, human rights view that Kashmiris should be given their "azadi" because they want it. (It would be equivalent to the CPI position before 1947.) This argument is indifferent to two potential consequences. Indian Muslims, who have already paid a heavy price for the "guilt" of 1947, would be condemned to generations of discrimination for a second betrayal of the motherland by some of their co-religionists; and there would be a collateral rise in other "independence" movements in Punjab, Gorkhaland, the North-East and the South. Welcome to Balkan India. Kosovo could seem a large country compared with Gorkhaland.

On the obverse, this scenario needs a growing "enough-is-enough, to-hell-with-Kashmiris" attitude among Hindus, aggravated by anger against ingratitude - after all secular India provided Kashmiris not only the chance to join a rising economy, but also a modern education and the freedom of a multicultural society, and they rejected it. The two points of view would coalesce from different directions. Impossible? This is precisely what happened in 1947, leaving Gandhi and Maulana Azad distraught but utterly helpless. Sixty one years later, some opinion-builders in English newspapers have begun to articulate the "enough-is-enough" argument.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2008 01:56

Rony post in full please.

It looks like the separatist demands of the KM leadership has shook the secular core of the elite that they are allowing MJ Akbar back in the mainstream press. If anyone recalls he was persona non grata in the Asian Age and Deccan Chronicle as he was agains the Nuke deal and its implied ramifications on IM. To please the Govt, the owners threw him out even thoguh he was the founder of the later paper.

BTW 1947 was not the first sellout. The earlier one was in 1934 when Burma was separated from mainland India. A fact not understood is that Indian popualtion in Burma was mostly from South India - Andhra and Tamilandu. This breakup was agreed to to get the provincial governements represenation by the Indian elite which was done in 1937. Having sacrificed Burma the elite resgined on a whim in 1939 as they were not consulted when the Viceroy declared war on Germany.They were already aleniated from Burma. Even now I meet overseas Burmese who talk wistfully of the Indian merchants that use to do business before the Japanese invaded and cleansed them away from Burma.

Sri Lanka was already separated even though historically and ethinically they are linked to mainland India. A second one was agreeing to the Brits to not return the sterling reserve that got transferred during WWII to pay for war debt of the Great Britain. True later India got some surplus naval ships and WPA aircraft to keep UK factories in work.


So the pattern is to convince themsleves that the land and people are not important or do not matter and then agree for the partition for some paltry gains which are of benefit to their group in an ephemeral sense.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby SBajwa » 26 Aug 2008 02:16

I cannot edit my post anymore!! option is gone.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2008 02:22

ramana wrote:

So the pattern is to convince themsleves that the land and people are not important or do not matter and then agree for the partition for some paltry gains which are of benefit to their group in an ephemeral sense.

There is something else is going here now. The intellectual group is silent and discussing among themselves in hushed tone.
There is one small group which wants to break India if there is any break by any region in India. That group is still influential in the policy circles and academic world. This group has been flouting this idea for the last 10 years and A Roy is part of this group

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby RamaY » 26 Aug 2008 02:24

The Gilaani interview is a keeper so the posters here understand what the true problem is... posting in full with few pics...
Hurriyat Conference Chairman Syed Ali Shah Geelani tells Aasha Khosa.

We all know the history of Kashmiri separatism but what was the immediate provocation for the ongoing massive protests?
The upsurge has not happened suddenly. The sentiment for azadi was always there. However, the transfer of 50 acres of forest land to the Amarnath shrine board made Kashmiris realise once again how insecure they feel. This acted as a trigger. Suddenly, people have started thinking about the 100,000 acres of land that is with the army.
Under the guise of "Operation Sadhbhavana," the army has usurped huge parcels of land and seems to be expanding its network. I have information that the army has seized 23 acres of land for opening a school in Pahalgam.

The schools being opened by the army are for Kashmiri children. Why object to this?
I know the schools are meant for Kashmiris. But they are also meant to make them sing Vande Mataram and not offer namaz. The aim of these schools is to turn Kashmiri children into pure Indians. This is cultural aggression on our Islamic values and is not acceptable to us. In fact, apart from fighting for the right to self-determination for 62 years, we have also been fighting against the cultural aggression by India.

So the transfer of land is not the real issue as many have been saying.
Yes, they are right. Land is not an issue for us. It has just acted as a catalyst to shape peoples' sentiments into an upsurge.

Image

There are differences even among the separatists -- some raise the slogan of azadi while people like you want Kashmir to go with Pakistan. How do you resolve this dilemma among yourself, beyond your occasional shows of unity?

Our unity is based on a single point -- implementation of the United Nations resolutions on Kashmir (which ask India and Pakistan to hold a plebiscite in undivided Jammu & Kashmir to find out if the people of the state want to be with India or Pakistan). However, I do agree that there are differences among us.

While I am for Kashmir going to Pakistan, there are voices that seek independence from both India and Pakistan. I also agree that there are people in Kashmir who would like to go with India. They argue that India has done so much for Kashmir. Others are fascinated by its secularism and democracy. But then we must not forget that there were discordant notes even when Indians fought the British.

Your party, the Tehreek-e-Hurriyat, has expanded its network. What precisely do you stand for?
Ever since my release from prison on August 7, 2004, I have been spreading my message across Kashmir. I have a three-point target. First is to impose an Islamic nizam (jurisprudence) in Kashmir. Islam should govern our lives, be it in our political thought, socio-economic plans, culture or the ongoing movement.

The creed of socialism and secularism should not touch our lives and we must be totally governed by the Koran and the Sunnat (precedents from Prophet Mohammad's life).

Secondly, I have been propagating that we must fight against anti-Islamic forces. These forces come in our way under the garb of nationalists, secularists, racists, linguistic chauvinists, and so on.
Thirdly, I have been telling the youth to work for the right to self-determination which is granted to them by the United Nations. I have been drawing huge support from the youth for this as a result of which you see lakhs of people on the roads today.

Image

In essence, Osama bin Laden's crusade to establish Islamic rule across the globe seems no different from yours.
Osama has come only during the last few years. People like me have been fighting for this all our lives. I do not want to be compared with Osama.

Your differences with the All Parties Hurriyat Conference came to the fore recently when you tried to project yourself as the sole leader of the (separatist) movement. What made you issue a public apology later?
During the last four years, I have been holding public rallies all over Kashmir. I have a routine -- first I explain my three-point programme to the audience, then I ask them if they agree to the idea of the movement having a single leader, and finally, people raise slogans favouring me as their sole leader.
This is what happened at the public rally with the Hurriyat leaders. Some of the Hurriyat leaders did not like my being endorsed as a leader by the crowd and walked out. It was my moral duty to apologise to them and I did.

Are you talking about Kashmir alone or the entire state, which includes Hindus and Buddhists, both of whom would not like to live in an Islamic dispensation of your dreams?
I want the right to self-determination for the entire territory of Jammu & Kashmir, including the areas under Pakistan. Let people decide once and for all which country they want to be with. The question of imposing an Islamic rule is different. Why do people object to it? If America and India can have democratic rule, others can have Communism, why object to the Islamic rule?

How bothered are you about the agitation in Jammu, where leaders are angry precisely about this point: Kashmiri leaders' hidden agenda behind the Amarnath land controversy?
Jammu's people are working on communal lines. {but it is ok for this ba$tard to profess islamic rule on hindu population of JK} But it is a fact that the transfer of land is not the core issue for us.
But India and Pakistan are working on solutions other than giving Kashmir the right to self-determination. What are your objections?
Pakistan has extended all support to us so far. The India-Pakistan dialogue is nothing new. In fact, the two have held 130 rounds of peace talks since 1952. What have they achieved so far? India is just biding its time in Kashmir by prolonging the dialogue with Pakistan. It won't achieve anything.

If the recent protests led by you and the Hurriyat leaders are true indicators of your popular support, why not contest elections and prove it?
Elections were never on our agenda and our stand has not changed on this. We believe in boycotting of the elections.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby prahaar » 26 Aug 2008 02:32

Guys in desh, could you please comment if the pictures shown in the posted rediff article with myriad of Jihadi leader's posters ( are they hizbollah leader's and ayatollah's pictures?) printed on newspapers? (both english and vernacular).

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby RamaY » 26 Aug 2008 02:37

Looking into the future, my conspiracy theory is…

A call for valley independence have sinister motives for the EJ clan…

For now it appears as if everybody wins…
• The rightist population that dislikes Islamic fundamentalism. Their perceived gain is the Jammu and Ladakh regions
• The Islamic fundoos gain their sought after prize of Kashmir valley. This validates their call for other causes around the world, with Kosovo being another recent win.
• The centrists will gain perceived peace. Of course they will wake up for another serial bomb blasts within few months and the story repeats…

But the true prize for EJs is….

The precedence and right to intervene whenever such situation arises. Think Manipur, Nagaland etc… soon Hindu India will be left with few portions of Hindu patches with so many Islamic and Christian Statelets.

What Pakistan is not able to do (remember thousand cuts???) with a nuclear weapon is being done by these pseudo secularists in India :cry:

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby enqyoob » 26 Aug 2008 02:39

So many beards, it's like a lice convention.

My eyes don't work so good - pls tell me if u see photos of vamanullah, archanullah, mullah mahdi-e-dra etc. there.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby fanne » 26 Aug 2008 02:41

One dream that remains in certain quarter is, between Europe and Philipins there are no Christaian state. Nagaland was a huge focus then. East Timor of course happenned, but neverthe less, the dream lives on. Dhat Teri ke Roy is selling it only for price of Booker (is it half million pounds) and when that money was running out after a decade almost, she won another not so famous but high priced award.
regards,
fanne

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2008 02:44

RamaY wrote:Looking into the future, my conspiracy theory is…

A call for valley independence have sinister motives for the EJ clan…

For now it appears as if everybody wins…
• The rightist population that dislikes Islamic fundamentalism. Their perceived gain is the Jammu and Ladakh regions
• The Islamic fundoos gain their sought after prize of Kashmir valley. This validates their call for other causes around the world, with Kosovo being another recent win.
• The centrists will gain perceived peace. Of course they will wake up for another serial bomb blasts within few months and the story repeats…

But the true prize for EJs is….

The precedence and right to intervene whenever such situation arises. Think Manipur, Nagaland etc… soon Hindu India will be left with few portions of Hindu patches with so many Islamic and Christian Statelets.


What Pakistan is not able to do (remember thousand cuts???) with a nuclear weapon is being done by these pseudo secularists in India :cry:

SOme Indian EJ have started talking this way.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby JE Menon » 26 Aug 2008 02:57

Nothing is going to happen. People should not worry that those of Arundhati's ilk, or for that matter Karan Thapar's, will have any noticeable influence on what is in store for J&K. The media is the media. There will be zero compromise on the issue of territorial integrity. In fact, what is about to happen is a gradual hardening of posture on and in J&K (IMHO of course :)). The Kashmiris are having it as good or as bad as any other Indian. Once the violence ends, there will be no need for obtrusive presence of military/paramilitary. But it has to end, and to be judged to have ended. That's it.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2008 03:00

This separatist agitation will complete the process of cutting India from Central Asia started with the TSP invasion of J&K in 1947. And the only ones who understand the game are the Brits. I see they are very silent and maybe watching.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Gerard » 26 Aug 2008 03:08

That Indian built road from Chabbar port to Kabul can also go further north

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby fanne » 26 Aug 2008 03:19

Menon Sir, I believe too that nothing will happen (so says my bro from Brahmulla as well). But that does not mean we do not counter what AKR and his ilk have to say. We must do our part. The bigger danger is, someday, it will cross the level of tolerance, today people think they can get justice by vote, the law will starighten out these traitors, but when that fails (or looks like falling), people will start taking law in their hand. That would be terrible, it would be a lose-lose situation. We, sitting here can not do much but should do whatever we can. And yes, the attitude has hardened, the willingness to take all the BS from newspapers and TV is ebbing. I hope it will not reach a point of no return.
rgds,
fanne

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Gerard » 26 Aug 2008 04:42


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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby G Subramaniam » 26 Aug 2008 05:33

http://www.dailyshadow.in/theshadow/artdet.aspx?q=877

Mosque being constructed at controversial Baltal site
JKPM lambastes NC, PDP for Amarnath yatra
King C Bharati 8/17/2008 7:17:36 PM

Jammu, Aug 16: The controversy regarding the construction of concrete structures at Baltal by Shri Amarnath Shrine Board is all set to deepen further with the revelations that Muslim community of the area is constructing a huge Jamia Masjid exactly inside the camp site at Baltal prompting Hindus to ask whether only Hindu structures were a threat to ecology.
In a press release Jammu and Kahsmir Peace Movement (JKPM) has expressed grave concern that while on the one hand Kashmiri Muslims say that construction of any kind at the place would be a biggest threat to ecology on the other hand they are in the process of constructing a huge Mosque exactly inside the Baltal Camp site where pilgrims stay.
The place which has put the entire state on boil with twin regions burning for the past more than a month this new revelation is likely to add fuel to the already burning fire.
The press note issued by Krishan Koul, Chairman of J&K Peace Movement has expressed his grave concern over the recent statements by some political forces of the state, adding that the construction of Jamia Masjid inside the camping site with the help of local contractor Shajan and his brother at Baltal was a ploy to create another controversy to damage the secular fabric of the state.
Supporting his argument with recent photographs of the site Koul said that while interacting with the locals of the area one Mr. Bashir Ahmed told them that the construction of the Jamia Masjid would start once the yatra was over and lakhs of rupees have already been collected for the said construction

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2008 05:36


Americans abandoned Afghanistan after the withdrawal of the Soviet forces and it led to the supremacy of the Taliban. If India abandons Kashmir just because a section of its citizens want azadi, the result would be similar.


S.N. Balakrishnan,

Mumbai

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Sumeet » 26 Aug 2008 05:50

Acharya,

Think you are pulling out someones comment on some article and posting it here. Can I have the link to original article ? thanks in advance.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Sumeet » 26 Aug 2008 05:52

Gerard wrote:Monumental folly
This disoriented silence is understandable. The Nehruvian project rested on the assumption that the emotional foundations of India would become unshakeable if the Muslim minority were allowed a generous measure of separateness and firewalled from the intrusions of both the secular state and civil society. Nehru believed that "temporary provisions" giving a special status to J&K in the form of Article 370 would reconcile Kashmiri sub-nationalism with Indian nationhood. A common civil code was also put on hold because he felt that in time Muslims would voluntarily accept the idea of non-religious personal laws.

While Nehru viewed separateness as a temporary balm on the scars of Partition, his successors elevated it to a non-negotiable tenet of Indian secularism. The results have been hideous. Far from nurturing a Amar-Akbar-Anthony form of multi-culturalism, separateness nurtured both ghettoisation and separatism. The perverse mindset of SIMI and IM activists, for example, is almost entirely a creation of the ghetto and centred on an abstract ummah that takes precedence over actual neighbours. The similarities between the IM mindset and the radical Islamism of the Pakistani ghettos in Britain are striking. And the problem in both countries has been encouraged by an intelligentsia that equates liberty with licence and turns every complaint into victimhood.





Jaitley revives BJP’s old stand against Article 370



BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley on Monday questioned the futility of the separate constitutional status for Jammu and Kashmir, saying it had only served to fuel separatism and not “deeper integration” as envisaged by Jawaharlal Nehru.

Addressing a meeting organised by the Delhi Study Group on the Amarnath land row issue, Jaitley said Nehru envisaged Article 370 as an instrument that would initially allow “looser” integration of the state with the rest of India to be followed by a “deeper” merger.

“That has not obviously happened. Instead, it has given way to the demand for dual currency and eventually to seek dual sovereignty too,” he said.

Virtually reviving the BJP’s old plank of opposition to the separate status, Jaitely said: “History will pass a cruel judgement on the Nehruvian approach.”

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby shiv » 26 Aug 2008 06:32

JE Menon wrote:Nothing is going to happen. People should not worry that those of Arundhati's ilk, or for that matter Karan Thapar's, will have any noticeable influence on what is in store for J&K. The media is the media. There will be zero compromise on the issue of territorial integrity. In fact, what is about to happen is a gradual hardening of posture on and in J&K (IMHO of course :)). The Kashmiris are having it as good or as bad as any other Indian. Once the violence ends, there will be no need for obtrusive presence of military/paramilitary. But it has to end, and to be judged to have ended. That's it.


A lamenting message on my alumni website forum drew the following response from me: :D

Cheer up folks. When things look bad - the only way is up.

The Indian media selectively show sound bites that are bound to scare and depress - but may I suggest that when you are really unhappy - watch Doordarshan.

I recall a period in the 1980s when I was in the UK. I would switch on the 6 o'clock news on the BBC and watch news of India burning. At 6-55 I would turn on All India Radio on my brand new digital shortwave radio to hear the soothing tweety whine of AIR's call sign. My ears would prick up for the pips that came at 7 PM and I would wait with bated breath to hear of the demise of my motherland sitting in a cold and dark country. And i would hear:

"Theezziz all India radio.

"The News, read by Shurajit Shen. First, the headlines."

"India and Boputhaswana have signed a trade and technology agreement in the fields of electronics and space exploration"

"The nation celebrated Dussera and Ramzan with piety and fervor"

"The test match between India and the West Indies has ended in a draw"


And the news would drone on, to be followed by filmi songs and a classical piece by someone or the other.

And this gave me tremendous comfort. Of course there were areas of India that people chose to highlight and show as "burning". But the vast mass of the nation remained as ever.

Chill out folks. Have a triple X, or a Laphroaig. Whichever is available.



svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2008 06:39

Sumeet wrote:Acharya,

Think you are pulling out someones comment on some article and posting it here. Can I have the link to original article ? thanks in advance.

It is a letter to editor. Not an article

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby shiv » 26 Aug 2008 06:52

Gerard wrote:Monumental follyThis disoriented silence is understandable. The Nehruvian project rested on the assumption that the emotional foundations of India would become unshakeable if the Muslim minority were allowed a generous measure of separateness and firewalled from the intrusions of both the secular state and civil society.


The Indian state has put no pressure or very little pressure on Indian Muslims to join the world in the type of education and work required to build an advanced nation. Muslims have been allowed to live "poster boy" Islamic lives in a strange clone of la la land in india just to show that Muslims could be more Islamic in India than in Pakistan.

And Jammu and Kashmir has had the most extreme of this kid glove treatment. We have tens of millions of poor and landless people who migrate from places like Bihar to anywhere for jobs and we keep a whole Indian state, Kashmir insulated from Indians so that Pakistan and other extremist can thrive. Shame on the Indian state. Let other Indians in.

Let 25 milliion Indian resettle in Kashmir and then start talking separatism. Pah! :twisted:

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2008 09:30

Give peace a chance: Indian intellectuals
KT NEWS SERVICE
NEW DELHI, Aug 24: Eminent personalities, intellectuals and NGO activists of the
country have appealed to the Indian government to restrain itself from the use
of force against the people of Kashmir.
In a joint appeal here today, they have urged the government to lift the curfew
and instead give peace a chance.
“We have news from Kashmir that curfew has been clamped in all the districts of
Kashmir valley as a prelude to cracking down with force on what is today
undisputedly a non-violent movement ,” the statement said, adding that to open
fire on unarmed civilians would send “a very grave and damaging message.”
It would be particularly disturbing given that militants have announced their
decision to silence their guns, the appeal added.
“We appeal to the Indian government to restrain itself from the use of force
against the people of Kashmir. We urge the government to lift the curfew and
give peace a chance,” the joint statement said.
Signatories to the appeal included Mahashweta Devi, Aruna Roy, Anand
Chakravarti, Arundhati Roy, Gautam Navlakha, Medha Patkar, Nikhil Dey, Prashant
Bhushan, Sanjay Kak and Uma Chakravarti.


Safdar Nagori thesis on 'Kashmir' under scanner

23 Aug 2008, 0806 hrs IST, Prashant Dayal,TNN


AHMEDABAD: It is not just Arundhati Roy, Safdar Nagori too had recommended that Kashmir be given a separate country status! Nagori has a master's degree in journalism with a dissertation on the Kashmir issue.

Nagori, the general secretary of SIMI, is now in the custody of the Ahmedabad crime branch officials. The Gujarat police hope to get a lot out of Nagori and other SIMI members who have been taken into custody from the Rewa central jail in Madhya Pradesh.

Nagori's dissertation titled 'Barf Ki Aag Bujhe Kaise?' is now drawing the attention of Gujarat police, as they are ready to get him to the city and grill him on the serial bomb blasts of July 26.

"Between 1998 and 2000, Nagori was enrolled in the Vikram University in Ujjain. He had taken up master's degree in journalism and proved to be a good student. He was a gold medalist," said a senior police official of Gujarat.

"In his course there was a dissertation of 50 marks. He had chosen to write on Kashmir and scored 48 marks," said a police investigator.

In his dissertation, Nagori had concluded that Kashmir should be given a separate country status. This document, which is close to 10 years old, reveals Nagori's leanings and mental status clearly.

Though there is no mention of violence in his 88-page thesis, he has said a lot. In Nagori's opinion, the Kashmiri Muslims have been tortured much in the last 60 years.

"On the other hand, rumours to defame Muslims like Kashmiri pandits being abducted and Hindu girls being raped were spread. But, not one case was ever proved," he has said.

"Nagori makes clear that his heart lies with separatist forces. He has aired an opinion that Kashmiri Muslims' opinion has time and again been ignored. And that to quell kashmir's fire, the government had relied upon guns and violence . Nagori claims that elections were held forcibly and that the problem is far from being resolved," said the police officials.

Nagori, in his dissertation, has also added that Kashmir wants independence and that the problem can be resolved only when it gets the status of a separate country.

"In Kashmir, the residents are not given government jobs according to their ratio in population. They get second class treatment," Nagori had said.



http://www.supportamarnath.org/

Kashmir: a history of revolt
Muzamil Jaleel
Posted online: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 at 2253 hrs Print Email
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/352549._.html

Srinagar, August 20: The latest wave of mass protests in Kashmir was
triggered by the Amarnath land row and a subsequent ``economic
blockade'' of Kashmir – snipping the only road link to the valley –
but its contours have already shifted. Since August 11, there were
five major protest rallies – march along the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad
road, the burial congregation of Hurriyat leader Sheikh Abdul Aziz and
other protestors – killed in security force firing – in Srinagar's
Eidgah grounds, the massive public assembly at Sheikh's native town
Pampore to pay homage to the Hurriyat leader, the massive public rally
in the heart of Srinagar city where lakhs of people gathered to
present a memorandum for `azadi' before the UN offices and a mass
Friday prayer at Eidgah. There has been a visible shift from the
demand for a free cross-LoC movement of people and goods, turning it
an outright separatist revolt.
In fact, both the Amarnath land row and the subsequent ``economic
blockade'' seems only to have played a trigger. And contrary to the
popular understanding that peace had finally returned, Kashmir had
been all along on a tipping point, silently simmering to explode.
This latest separatist revolt, however, is not new in Kashmir and its
origins can be traced to 16th century, when Mughal Emperor Akbar sent
his troops to conquer. In fact, Kashmiri separatists have always
framed their ideology behind the demand of ``azadi'' with this 423
year long history. Even the tallest leader of Kashmir, Sheikh Mohammad
Abdullah launched a movement for freedom from Dogra autocratic rule in
1931 based his demand on historical injustice and foreign rule, making
the Mughal army's toppling of the Chak dynasty rule as its beginning.
The memory of loss and pain by the Mughal invasion has, in fact, been
imortalised by the poetry of Kashmir's last queen Habba Khatoon, which
still is alive in every Kashmir home.
It's a historical fact that the first rebellion in Kashmir began
through a subtle verbal resistance soon after Kashmir's last king
Yousuf Shah Chak was tricked by Mughal's to come for negotiations to
Delhi, only to be imprisoned and exiled to Patna in Bihar. Chak later
died there. Chak's painful exile and then the poetry of loss written
by his peasant queen, wandering the beautiful landscape of the valley,
have always sowed the seeds of revolt here. Habba's songs, lamenting
the pain and loss of Kashmir during Mughal rule has framed almost
every separatist discourse including the successful peasant rebellion
against Dogra autocratic rule led by Sheikh Mohamamd Abdullah and his
National Conference party in 1930's and 40's. Kashmir's response to
Mughal rule was to use contemptuous terms like ``pogi Mughal –
shinay-e- Mughal (ominous/ inauspicious Mughal) and ridicule their
rule.
Mughals first tried to conquer Kashmir in 1561 but were defeated by
Sultan Gazi Shah Chak. In 1585, Mughal invasion was led by Raja
Bhagwan Das and it succeeded after Kashmir's king Yousuf Shah Chak was
tricked to come for negotiations, captured and exiled. Chak's resisted
the Mughal rule for another two years but surrendered in 1588 when
Mughal Emperor Akbar finally entered Kashmir in 1589.
The first organized revolt, however, took place during Sikh rule of
Kashmir (between 1783-85), when the local population led by Malook
Khan rose against Governor Azad Khan. The rebellion was, however,
crushed.
In 1846, another revolt took place when Imam-ud-din, the then governor
under Sikh rule in Kashmir rebelled with the help of Kashmir's hill
tribes and resisted and refused to surrender the territory to Dogras
after the notorious Treaty of Amritsar, through which Kashmir was sold
to Maharaja Gulab Singh and Dogra rule established. The people who
were killed in this resistance were buried in a Srinagar locality
which is now named as Shaheed Gunj (The locality of the martyrs).
On April, 29, 1865, Shawl weavers rebelled against Dagh Shawl
department of the Dogras rulers. The reason behind this revolt was
their extremely difficult working conditions, meager wages, excessive
taxation and a ban to leave Kashmir valley. The weavers staged a
protest outside the house of Pandit Raj Kak Dhar, the top Dogra
official incharge of the department, in city's Zaldagar locality. The
Dogra army charged at the protesting weavers and drowned 28 of them.
This led to an uprising which was, however, crushed by the Dogra army.
In 1924, the next round of revolt took place when the employees of
Silk factory launched an agitation. This agitation triggered by the
unhygienic conditions in the factory but soon expanded to the demand
to pressure Dogra rulers to grant political concessions to Kashmiris.
July, 13, 1931 – This resistance was spread across Jammu and Kashmir
and began from Jammu against the sacrilege of Quran by the soldiers of
Dogra ruler Hari Singh. There were massive protests in Kashmir. The
struggle began as a movement against this act of sacrilege but soon
turned into a struggle for the ouster of the Dogra autocratic rule.
Thirty one protestors were killed when Dogra army opened fire at them
during the trial of the leader of this agitation, Abdul Qadeer. Sheikh
Mohammad Abdullah came to limelight soon after this incident, who
later framed the discourse of Kashmir's freedom from autocratic Dogra
rule. Although Muslim Conference led by Sheikh was at the fore front
of this struggle, Sheikh renamed it as National Conference on secular
principles to include the minorities, especially Kashmiri pandits in
its fold on June 11, 1939. This led to the first fissures in Kashmir's
revolt for freedom, dividing it along idealogical lines. While Sheikh
professed a secular and socialist agenda, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq's grand
uncle Mirwaiz Yousuf Shah and Choudhary Ghulam Abbas stuck to Muslim
Conference, making the religious identity of Kashmiri Muslims the
focus of their struggle against the Dogra rule.
This internal chasm, in fact, played an important role in 1947 when
Sheikh rejected the two nation theory and decided to go with India,
rather than siding with the newly born state of Pakistan on the basis
of Jammu Kashmir being a Muslim dominated princely state. The Muslim
Conference, however, sought Kashmir's accession with Pakistan.
On August, 9, 1953, Sheikh was arrested for allegedly espousing the
cause of an independent Kashmir. While Sheikh was in jail, New Delhi
consistently changed the dynamics of the very principle of Kashmir's
autonomy within Indian state and took a series of measures to destroy
its special character. A plebiscite front was launched to revolt
against New Delhi's rule in Kashmir and Sheikh had returned to the
demand of a referendum. This rebellion continued till 1975 when Prime
Minister Indira Gandhi singed an accord with Sheikh. This accord too
was controversial and although National Conference returned to power,
the seeds of separatism in Kashmir didn't die. Infact, this further
strengthened the separatist sentiment.
In 1967 – the first underground militant group Alfatah was launched to
rebel against New Delhi's rule in Kashmir. This group, however,
fizzled out when it was finally crushed in 1971.
In 1989 – Kashmir erupted again. And this time, massive public
protests lead to a militant movement which continues. The Hurriyat
Conference – which was launched in 1993 to spearhead the political
campaign for separatism – too has been divided along the same
idealogical lines which witnessed the split when Sheikh Mohamamd
Abdullah created secular National Coference but couldn't entirely
replace the Muslim Conference.
Today, the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front is seeking an independent
secular and united Jammu and Kashmir while Syed Ali Shah Geelani led
Hurriyat staunchly supports Kashmir's accession with Pakistan.
The discourse might have substantially changed since the Mughal
invasion of Kashmir 423 years ago, the songs of Habba Khatoon still
frame the separatist yearning for self rule.



http://kashmirforumorg.blogspot.com/200 ... shmir.html

BELATED NEWS AND VIEWS FROM FRAUDULENTLY OCCUPIED GILGIT BALTISTAN PORTION OF BOLOR

1. Since 28 April 2008, when a befitting public gathering was organized at Garhi Bagh, Gilgit city to condemn and reject infamous Karachi Agreement of 28 April 1949; an overlapping, accelerating, momentous and significant public political gatherings and activities were organized by Gilgit Baltistan Democratic Alliance (GBDA) throughout the length and breadth of Gilgit Baltistan. Salients are given out as under:-


1. An impressive and big jalsa (public congregation) was held in Gakuch i.e. district head quarter of Ghizr in the month of May 2008. The jalsa was enthusiastically attended by thousands. It proved to be a very charged and inspiring gathering.



2. A historic, unique and very well attended to the tune of thousands was held during the month of June 2008, in the heart of Skardu, which is the capital of Baltistan. Despite; full negative tactics of the colonial administration, the jalsa laid political foundations for future. People from all places of Gilgit Baltistan went to attend the gathering. This gathering enhanced the moral courage and political will of the people of Gilgit Baltistan.




3. In the former State of Hunza, at Aliabad, an unprecedented Jalsa was superbly organized in the month of July 2008. The number of participants crossed the bench mark of thousands. The numbers of participants was multiplying. Mir Ghazanfar Ali Khan of Hunza and the non local establishment was lamented.



4. GBDA and its component parties organized seminars, corner meetings, conferences, organizational expanding activities and peace ensuring meetings in Gilgit and surrounding areas and Baltistan in the month of July 2008. Emphasis were also laid to pin point those very elements, who are trying to penetrate GBDA on behest of intelligence agencies in the garb of fake nationalism and pseudo revolutionary disguise. Many of such people were earmarked so as to be punished in future.




5. In beginning August 2008, Balawaristan National Front (BNF), a component party of GBDA, organized an enthralling and captivating “Balawaristan Melaa” in the former State of Yasin, bordeing Chitral, Pamir, Badakhshan and Tajikistan. Various outdoor and indoor physical and cultural activities were held. Only in the foot ball tournament 48 teams from all nooks and corners of Yasin participated. The numbers ran into hundreds and thousands.



6. On 14th August 2008, i.e. the independence day of Pakistan, a historic breakthrough in the shape of a big public gathering was organized right on the Karakoram Highway (KKH) in the suburban Danyore town of Gilgi city. The aim was to give a clear message and show a red flag to the colonial Pakistani double layered military and civilian rulers that this is a day of your rejoicing and not ours. It is difficult to count the number of participants as it definitely exceeded the limits. Many thousands participated in a close to five hour long gathering, which was addressed by over 25 speakers. People and delegates from Hunza, Nagir, Gilgit, Ghizr, Rondu, Haramosh, Baltistan, Jaglot and Chilas participated with a zeal and enthusiasm to make the programme - voicing their sentiments and demands! A success. This event has an everlasting multidimensional bearing in short and long future term. The topic was, “14 August 1947 to 14 August 2008 – A painful reappraisal”?


2. In view of the abovementioned, the World, human rights organizations, neighboring countries, UNPO, EU Parliament, UN and all concerned organizations are requested to keep a close watch on the developments in the strategic and internationally problematic Gilgit Baltistan. It is worth mentioning that the national assembly of Pakistan recently rejected a tabled motion in its assembly that Gilgit Baltistan problem has international dimensions and ramifications.



For latest development in Kashmir Visit official website of JKLF, Hindi version is also available. http://www.jklfkashmir.org/

Police on look out for pro-freedom leaders

GK NEWS NETWORK

Srinagar, Aug 24: Few hours before Lal Chowk Chalo march, police arrested chairmen of both the factions of Hurriyat Conference, Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq from their respective residences on Sunday night.
Media Advisor Hurriyat (M), Advocate Shahid-ul- Islam told Greater Kashmir , “ A police team led by two Superintendents of Police raided Mirwiaz’s Nageen residence around 1’o clock in the night and asked him to accompany them.”
Islam said that Mirwiaz was taken to an unknown destination.
Few hours before arrest, Mirwiaz told Greater Kashmir, “New Delhi and State Government have got unnerved due to the unprecedented turn out of people in recently held rallies.”
Mirwiaz had said that there will be no change in Monday's program and he along with other pro-freedom leaders will march to Lal Chowk .
Another police party raided the house of Hurriyat (G) Chairman Syed Ali Shah Geelani late in the night and arrested him, a senior Hurriyat (G) leader said.
Inspector General of Police Kashmir Range S M Sahai earlier in te day had told a new Delhi based private news channel that Police have received intelligence inputs about Geelani and Mirwaiz may be targeted in the Lal Chowk on Monday and that is why curfew has been imposed.
Earlier in the morning authorities launched massive crackdown against the pro-freedom leaders who are spearheading the present movement in Kashmir.
Two middle rung leaders of Hurriyat (M) Salim Geelani and Hakeem Rashid, Hurriyat (G) spokesman Ayaz Akbar and another middle rung leader of Hurriyat (G) Mehrajudin Kalwal were arrested from their respective residences. Policemen also raided the houses of senior Hurriyat (M) leaders Nayeem Ahmed Khan and Shabir Shah, and senior JKLF leaders Bashir Ahmed Bhat and Showkat Ahmed Bakshi but none of them were present in their houses and they evaded the arrest.



http://www.jklfkashmir.org/yasin%20Mali ... ampura.JPG

Decide the Kashmir Sovereignty issue First




Kashmir Watch, August 25

By Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal


Kashmiris have been struggling for their sovereignty back from the occupying India since 1947, but India responds to their demand by using excessive state terrorism and economic terrorism. Leaders n New Delhi have found no time so far to decide about the fate of Kashmiris, but Kashmiris are being targeted every where, they are tortured in India jails. No one bothers. But when the Hindus brought about the illegal Amarnath land row, the governments, both central and state under governor Vohra, are spending sleepless nights to find a solution to appease Indian Hindus in Kashmir by some allotting forest land to Hindus and play mischief on Kashmiris. This is both funny and immoral.

Why should India consider the Hindu vote bank concerns alone are supreme to Indian governments and not those of genuine concerns of patriotic Kashmiri Muslims?

Why Indian leaders don't think debating the issue sovereignty to Kashmiris extremely essential at this point of time?

It seems the Hindu leaders including Vohra are keen to find a solution to the festering illegal Amarnath land row with the Indian president ruled Jammu and Kashmir government proposing that the shrine board use the controversial (40plus) hectares of land for three months during the pilgrimage season.

It is disastrous indeed. First of Indian leaders should consider surrendering sovereignty back to the struggling patriotic Kashmiris without killing them mercilessly. This should be the first condition even to think of discussing the illegal land deal in the name of a Hindu god, when the grand Babri Mosque has not yet bee re-built by Indian government as pledged by it before the nation and world at large. Fate of Kashmiri Mohammad Afzal has been hanging between the parliament, Rashtrapati Bhavan and Apex Court for quite some time and no one bother about his life and tortures that he has been enduring in terror packed jails.

Now Kashmir is under virtual siege with economic terrorism unleashed on innocent Kashmiris and undergoing severest turmoil because of India which uses this stalemate to secretly find a quick-fix solution to Hindutva issue in the Kashmir forest. Several Kashmiri freedom fighting leaders, including senior patriot Geelani, have been under arrest too. A few leaders have been murdered by Indian terror forces.

India is too quick and fast in finding favorable solutions to Hindu problems, while neglecting the lingering freedom issue of Kashmir for decades. Why don't the Hindu leaders now discuss the rationale behind the secret grave-yards discovered in Kashmir? Is blood running in the veins of Muslims in Kashmir unworthy of any consideration at all?

Yes, Mr. Governor, the illegal land deal should be thrown into cold storage until Kashmir sovereignty issue is decided in favor of patriotic Kashmiris. Indian terror forces have already murdered thousands of innocent Kashmiris seeking freedom and this issue merit more urgency than the " land" one you have chosen now to focus on.

Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal Research Scholar,School of International Studies,Jawaharlal Nehru University,New Delhi can be contacted at

abdulruff_jnu@...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-elc3s14_Og

The new assault is underway in the name of Islam and Pakistan in Kashmir.


The latest wave of protest and agitation that was unleashed in the name of first Amaranth Yatra by the political parties of Valley’s Muslim dominated leadership against the decision of congress government Guam Nabi Azad’s to transfer land to the yatra shrine Board, which he reversed under the public pressure, and lost his government, because of betrayal by its junior partner PDP leadership. As a result of the revocation of land, has sparked political protest in the Jammu region by the Hindu population who viewed this act as question to their equal right to be Kashmiri. Because all valley Muslims protest against this allotment reflects some communal approach when land for Hindu shrine is challenged unanimously by all mainstream and pro-Pakistan political leadership. Their reaction was not unusual when they demanded the restoration of the land to the Shrine Board without going into the nitty-gritty of legal implications or justification that valley Muslim dominated leaders had pleaded. But one has to be mindful of the fact that state Jammu and Kashmir doesn’t belong to the Muslims only, when every Muslim valley leader claims during the elections time that it is multi-religious and multi-cultural state but resort to the extreme politics of confrontation without taking into consideration sentiments people ofJammu. Had they reacted in same manner if Jammu Land had been transferred to Muslim shrine to accommodate the pilgrims there, perhaps not? and this communal approach probably rightly or wrongly was perceived by the Jammu people, which was duty of the mainstream Kahsmiri leaders to avoid?
Second, it was New Delhi’s duty to protect by acting in time to contain it from further escalation by taking the all sides into confidence. but again some delays and mistakes governments make, which doesn’t grant the right to advocate the extremist politics to divide the state along communal lines or recite mantra of another country which is done by pro-Pakistan leaders. But question is that why Jammu Hindu didn’t adopt this extreme posture to carry flags of Pakistan to show their anger against the New Delhi, which is alleged to be involved in the revocation of decision. But despite their serious reservations on the issue, Jammu’s Hindu Kashmiri didn’t advocate the extreme views. But so-called pro-Pakistani fanatic Ali Gilani and so-called moderate Umar Farooq including pro-independence leaders didn’t miss the opportunity to turn this occasion anti- India and pro-Pakistan where pro-Islamic,pro-Pakistan slogans flags and banners were raised and chanted to which all Kashmiri’s never supportedbut appear to be the greater conspiracy to which these leaders are part to divide state among communal lines.
One may have very legitimate reasons to question over chanting such objectionable slogans, not only by India, but also for Kashmiri, s and rest, despite serious reservations with India, to the politics of these so-called leaders have tried to advance in the disguise of communal division in Kashmir. The communal harmony Which, has been unique character of state polity to which 20 years proxy militancy, violence and persistent attempts to undermine had failed in the past. But new plan to assault to bleed the communal unity of the state in the disguise of Amaranth controversy exposes their agenda of advancing divisive politics. Again, the conspiracy, valley’s mainstream leadership especially National conference has always frustrated every effort of Pakistan to divide state in the name of religion, from Sheikh to his successors, had saved the state’s unique character. Though Sheikh family has been victim of vicious campaign of Pakistan and pro-Pakistan proxy leaders and militants since the partition till today, and they suffered politically when their party cadre and leaders had been killed by these elements.
Albeit, this time it appears that pro-Pakistan leaders including PDP has succeed to put the dent on state’s communal unity when so-called leaders publicly raised and chanted the pro-Pakistan slogans. while PDP proclaims nationalism in New Delhi but separatism in the valley, brought these two on the same platform to weaken the communal harmony of state. The dispute was among two Kashmiri that never grant either side to use this opportunity to indulge in the politics of advancing another country’s political agenda to create the distance with the other Kashmiri, because of being different religion. The hardliner and so-called moderate APHC leaders in fact are promoting the cause of global Jihad in the disguise of anti-India or Hindu by chanting Islamic slogans in Kashmir to give boost to the weakning extremist forces by creating political instability in India and Pakistan both.
It may appear to be separate incident and development which showing apparently no co-relation to the other observers but its undercurrents and ultimate political motives suggest otherwise. and if India failed to control present communal pursing that grips to the valley, its losses will be irrepairable for all democratic and secular forces in the region currently fighting to rid the threat of extremism and terrorism. These pro-Islamic and pro-Pakistan leaders’ political ambitions are not to see even strong Pakistan as they posture by their slogans rather their real task is to conspire against the newly elected Pakistan government which is still embattled to strengthen the political institutions in Pakistan where in spite of Mushraf’s ouster, intelligence agencies and military enjoys the overwhelming political and economic powers. Political leadership in Pakistan can anticipate the danger these so-called Pakistan leaders present against the democratic system in Pakistan. As soon after the elections in Pakistan, its proxy leaders and militants were activated by the agencies to destabilize the newly elected government in Pakistan which endeavoring to restrict the powers of military and clip the political wings of ISI.Ali Gilani represents those who wish to seek the Islamic dominance in the region and is against every negotiation or initiatives that can bring the political order and stability in the region. Political chaos and turmoil supports such forces to involve economically marginalized people to wage war against the liberals, secular and democratic forces by using religion. Now Islamic slogans in the valley to which Gilani leads and shapes while rest follow him including so-called pro-independence pose serious threat if managed to deepen and widen this communal divide.
Though they are chanting the pro-Pakistan and pro-Islam slogans, but there are two Pakistan, one which belongs to the people of Pakistan comprised on the different nationalities involved in long drawn struggle to create just and equitable relationship among the all confederating partners where no single unit be in position to undermine the other unit or nationality’s right to progress, prosper and define its policies except some.
There is another Pakistan that belongs to the Generals and agencies, largely controlled and ruled by it since its creation and continues to use the Kashmir conflict and Kashmiri so-called pro-Pakistan, but pro-military and religious forces always working for military intervention to which these leaders always facilitated. The Gilani brand Islam and Pakistan doesn’t belong to common Pakistani, only to military ruled Pakistan, that is why he continues to seek the political destabilization, communalization and political polarization in Kashmir to create political chaos and instability to undermine the democratic process in Pakistan that will pave the way for military intervention in Pakistan. The political leadership is aware of these hawkish Kasmiri working for anti-democratic forces but unable to sideline them easily which presents still serious threat to the political system to in Pakistan.

Mumtaz Khan
Last edited by Rahul M on 26 Aug 2008 11:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to leave link only. don't post large pics inline.

Supratik
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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Supratik » 26 Aug 2008 10:58

Jamwal,

I was talking about Bangladeshi settlers in eastern India (west bengal and assam). It is an open secret that the Congress in Assam and the Communists in Bengal have settled lakhs if not millions. So what I am thinking is why not do the same in J&K. It does not have to start in Kashmir. Why not start in Jammu? Jammuites have to take the initiative. All you need to do is to get them ration cards and voter cards. And then continue to demand delimitation commensurate with population. This is a doable strategy, very Indian.

GS,

An Israeli strategy does not seem feasible at this stage. We do not have that kind of influence yet. Besides as I have outlined above a better strategy is available to us.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Rahul M » 26 Aug 2008 11:11

Acharya, why are posting articles from the fictitous character abdur ruff colachal ??
it is a well known fraud scheme and more than one "liberal" author ghost write for this entity.

FWIW, there is no such person at JNU.

here is the idiot celebrating paki victory over India in cricket. no "research scholar" in International Relations worth his salt is going to do that. just read it and the paki in him gets clearer by the minute.
http://abdulruff.wordpress.com/2008/06/ ... -colachal/

jamwal
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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby jamwal » 26 Aug 2008 11:42

Supratik wrote:Jamwal,

I was talking about Bangladeshi settlers in eastern India (west bengal and assam). It is an open secret that the Congress in Assam and the Communists in Bengal have settled lakhs if not millions. So what I am thinking is why not do the same in J&K. It does not have to start in Kashmir. Why not start in Jammu? Jammuites have to take the initiative. All you need to do is to get them ration cards and voter cards. And then continue to demand delimitation commensurate with population. This is a doable strategy, very Indian.

I don't approve of it. First thing already population in India is too much. Adding even more Bangladeshis is not a good idea. Most of Bangladeshis are muslims. How can you make sure that they'll support India not separatists.
Hindus in Muslim dominated regions of Jammu are already suffering. In Punch, 30 shops were burnt by a muslim mob who gheroed a police station later. IN Kishtwar some shops were burnt and a grenade lobbed at a procession of Hindus.
Adding more muslims is a very bad idea.

Some pro-India people should be sent to valley to settle down there.Even KAshmiri Pandits for a start.

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Re: J & K news and discussion - 19 Aug 2008

Postby Rahul M » 26 Aug 2008 11:45

supratik isn't talking about settling BD's in J&K.


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