RamaY wrote:Thank you RayC-ji. I agree with the important part of your post. The rest is how each one of us wants to address the problem. Some wants to offer more accommodation, others self-flagging, and the rest to show tough-love.
My apologies if I attributed something to you that you did not say. Please read your own posts to see the tone/language you use to criticize Hindu leaders and the tone/language you use to criticize the others. You will get the picture.
I am proud of Indian armed forces. But you are wrong in that it is army that is keeping India ONE. It goes against the point you made in another thread, that army will obey the GOI decision. For example if the political leadership of India decides to give up a part of India, either to become an independent entity or to be part of another nation, army has to accept that decision.
In India the paramount authority is PM and his counsel of ministers. That is why they are made responsible (good or bad) for everything that happens in this nation. Every other group or stakeholder including Indian armed forces play a supportive role at best.
It is natural for a group to think too much about its own contributions. To be honest, with all due respect, IMVHO the police force deserves more kudos than the armed forces. They are ill trained, under equipped, are exposed to all the influences of civil society, yet fight equally dangerous, if not more dangerous, enemies such as Maoists, terrorists, and mafia.
Neither of us know Baba Ramdev’s strategy or preferences behind attending the meeting. Imagine what would you think/say if he rejects the invitation of Darul, prior to their fartwa against Vandemataram?
I am a Hindu and am proud of being a Hindu. I believe that India owes its secular democracy to its Hindu majority. My personal beliefs and preferences do not matter when I discuss about India’s strategic future and leadership.
Hinduism cannot be treated as a religion as defined in western-construct. Hinduism is a way of life in its true sense and form. In that aspect, Hinduism must be and will be part of Indian strategic landscape, whether one likes it or not. A RSS, a Baba Ramdev, a Satya Saibaba, an Amritanandamai are part of this nation building. Any ideology that is not from this land will run the risk of being loyal to non-indian interests. If someone doesn’t see it, that is their opinion.
P.S: I am not a member of RSS or any other religious/political/social group/organization. I just have a different POV from that of yours. You are a moderator and are most welcome to delete any of my posts if they are not related to the thread or (ask me to) move them to the right thread.
Why should I quit BRF, just because I do not like your/others perspective?
I have nothing against any religion or any religious individual/ icon.
You claim that I should observe my tone and language when I wonder loudly about the Indic laurels. I presume the same analogy could be applied to the posts that allude to the alleged shenanigans committed by the so called Abrahamic faiths. It takes two to tango as they say.
Any act that destabilises India, I will confess, upsets me. Religion has become a flashpoint in our country and is being cashed on to create greater societal schisms. Evangelism and more so through fraud and allurement is hard to accept since that is not being true to oneself. But then, one should not take law into one’s hand.
While I do not have the first hand knowledge of the Kandhamal incident, I am left bewildered as to how BJP lost in Orissa is such a dismal manner. Yet, why was the Sant killed in the first place and why did the State machinery not ensure that there was harmony so that the Sant was not killed that unleashed the mayhem? Why did the nun who claims to have been raped not ordered to depose (which she did as if doing a favour)? The mess we are in is not the fault of any Abrahamic skulduggery. It is our own making.
I find the escapism of blaming everyone and every other faith for our own fault very frustrating. If the laws were firm and it was firmly implemented then such skulduggery would not have occurred! Even if one takes that the Missionaries of Charity are doing great work as correct, one should see that behind the great work there lies the harvesting of souls too! Nothing wrong. Good work. Why the Dickens can the Hindus not also harvest the souls instead of talking of the glorious Indic past? If the past was glorious, let us keep the present glorious too. Why lament and fret and fume here on this forum. All talk and little action! I have many a time spoken of the Bharat Seva Ashram’s work. Take a leaf off their book and those who feel that they must get their act together must get cracking rather than lamenting or indulging in their glorious past!
The IA obeys the GOI directive. But the internal ethos and traditions are not ordered by the GOI. It is totally an Indian Army prerogative. If one were to emulate the general societal precedence, then things would be different. It is already affecting. Because of old traditions none questions orders and hence obeys them. If the IA is not holding the country as One, why call them in when the walls crumble? Be it a natural calamity, riots, law and order or public services collapsing, the Army is called in! In Calcutta when the garbage chaps went on strike, it was the Army which was called in! So, please, will all due regards, I cannot accept your contention that we are trumpeting our deeds. They are there for all to see. Policing or bringing order is not the Army’s job. It is that of the Police and the paramilitary. So, what have you to say of that?
If the GOI wants to sell the country, unlike Pakistani Army, the Army will have to accept it. However, we have faith in the GOI that nothing as foolish as that would be done. When Siachen was to be demilitarised as per the Govt’s indicating after the Havana Meet, the IA prevailed upon the Govt that it would be catastrophic and the GOI recanted! Let us not think that the Govt is staffed in the Cabinet by stupid people!
Of course the police force requires kudos. They are ill trained, ill equipped etc etc and yet they function! Who is responsible for their training and equipment? Is training not a command responsibility? Is being ill trained and ill equipped a badge of great efficiency? The IA is ill equipped but not ill trained. Who is responsible? The IA hierarchy right from the Havildar upwards. Is it a crime to be well trained even if deprived of good equipment? Indian Army is also exposed to societal changes and pressures.
I respect your love for Baba Ramdev, but yesterday in We the People, a Muslim youth won my heart when he said that he would sing Vande Mataram without any qualms since it was a part of India, his country’s heritage. He was a brave boy and Bukhari pounced on him but was stopped in his track. There are many like this Muslim youth, let us not scare them back into their shell. Baba Ramdev was also on this show and he came out as a damp squib! I am not aware of Ramdev’s strategy, but this much I know, one should have no truck with forces than spawn organisations like SIMI. I wonder if you have heard of the Tablighi Jamaat, which follows the Deoband instructions. They have penetrated Europe and the US. Check the Hadley case!
No one has asked you to quit BRF. I have only indicated most politely to Pullikeshi that none has coerced us to join BRF and we are free to quit. Have I told you so? As I have no time to wade through all the posts, do indicate where I asked you to quit!
