The Trash Thread in the Trash Can (Use 4545 to Merge Posts)

AnantD · Post by **AnantD** » 25 Dec 2009 20:14

Just because there are a few posts regarding IMs in a M thread dosen't mean a new thread. Its all related IMO. Would you want to post in an IM thread which would only be a flame thread!?

Next thing will be IBTL or some other nonsense because you disagree with a post. Jara khul ke bolo yaar!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Dec 2009 20:28

This fact seems to escape many people who live part time or full time in wonderland instead of the shit pit that India actually is for 80% of Indians. Hence the sekoolarism of BR, because shit is fully secular. But cognitive dissonance does not want us RAPE equivalent Indians to admit that India is actually a shit pit in terms of life for 80% of Indians. Don't let NDTV, Zee and Star fool you into thinking that India is wonderland. Just like RAPE we insist that all is hunky dory in India and that these bloody Mohammad worshipping Mooslims are the biggest threat. That is cloud cuckoo land.

Rhetorically excessive perhaps, but the point is well taken.

Fact remains that in Yindia wages measured in real (i.e. inflation adjusted terms) have continued to rise even for the semi-skilled and the unskilled class of workers. Kindly ponder on the ramifications before implying that 'us RAPE equivalent in India' are out to siphon away somebody else's hard earned wealth in a classic zero sum game using our system-rigging birthrights.

As a point of comparison, the lot of TSPian feudal victims has not improved in decades - in terms of most common socio-economic indicators.

Another, trickier, point of comparison is that the average real wages of blue collar workers in the US has declined y-o-y since the early 70s. The less said about the great destiny of UK-stani or ozzie yobs in the same time-frame, the better.

Its all well to grandly proclaim that we RAPE eqvt on BRF lack social conscience, touch with reality or intellectual honesty. But would be nicer if the numbers on the ground also supported the same sob-story in toto. But hey, what would I know - I am a member of the desi-RAPE exploitative class onlee.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 25 Dec 2009 20:36

shiv wrote:No water No food. No money. No health. No justice. No education. No opportunity. No nothing for 600 to 700 million Indians - of whom 300 million are children and suddenly Allah is worshipped here as the biggest threat. Allah is a pipsqueak as problems go.

This sounds more like a description of Bakstan that India. True, India has its share of problems but the situation is not this bad. While the posters are concerned about the intentions of the IMs & rightfully so, let us not forget the other sekoolaar communities. All in all, Bharat faces grave risk from non-Indics.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Dec 2009 20:46

AnantD wrote:Just because there are a few posts regarding IMs in a M thread dosen't mean a new thread. Its all related IMO. Would you want to post in an IM thread which would only be a flame thread!? Next thing will be IBTL or some other nonsense because you disagree with a post. Jara khul ke bolo yaar!

One OT post leads to another OT post and pretty soon the original message of the thread get lost in the noise. I am not saying we should not discuss IM related issues but let us maintain the main thrust of this thread!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Dec 2009 21:03

This is my last post on subject on this thread
Yes 80% of Indias population does live in shot shape. And no situation is not great for all those who think all is well. The naxal problem is a direct fall out of the hell that tribals went through at the hands of the state.
However, problems brought on by a particular ideology contribute a significant share of the shite
- We have poured god knows how much of our resources into J&K. That whole state is subsidized and richest state in India.
- Overpopulation is a big problem in India and population of a group is increasing at galloping speed (compare share in 50's and now). Overpopulation is a big cause of poverty
- Illiteracy: Madrassah education and reluctance to educate female members
- Health; Child marriage; Opposition to vaccince (Polio still survives in India and Nigeria due to reluctance of a particular religious group)
- Others (child prostitution in the name of temp marriages, constant opposition to state, special doles and subsidies, involvement with mafia)

Without a radical reform this community will be a millstone around the necks of other communities in India and a threat to the sovereignity of the country. Reform in this community will create a significant dent in the problems of India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 21:11

derkonig wrote: This sounds more like a description of Bakstan that India. True, India has its share of problems but the situation is not this bad. While the posters are concerned about the intentions of the IMs & rightfully so, let us not forget the other sekoolaar communities. All in all, Bharat faces grave risk from non-Indics.

That "Indic" word - the word that means whatever I want it to mean <wink wink nudge nudge>

hasmukh · Post by **hasmukh** » 25 Dec 2009 21:20

Shiv,The current situation is because of all the wealth snatched from Indians first by Islamic barbarians and then by Britishers and later by durbari politicians. You are writing like a fool having not read single book by ancient Indian travellers, If u want to know about India under exactly Hindu rule , you will be see that not only financially but also morally India was way ahead of everyone else. Guru nanak jee mentions this in his poem babarvani phir gayee about pre islamic India and bemoans what has happened since babar attacked.
For more info read koenraad elst books which are backed by references and citations and stop acting like hindu self hater. As for Western country I work in a Hospital where everyday there is a long queue of 14 year old girls waiting for abortions, 11 year old kids with drug problems , macdonald "angus" burgers for cuisine, drugs and needles found in toilets and around me are all broken families(staff included), have seen kids using slangs, and whatnot . So stop being Hindu hater, the problems you have mentioned is because holy land was raped over centuries while self haters like you (run into millions, act like brotherhood) stood aside and mentioned "deserve it" whereas true flower of hindu race perished fighting not only external enemies but also internal traitors.
As for poverty,Hindu India is rising despite no shortage of internal as well as external enemies, but it will take time to recover, After all thousand years of plunder cannot be undone in few 60 years.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 21:32

Hari Seldon wrote: Its all well to grandly proclaim that we RAPE eqvt on BRF lack social conscience, touch with reality or intellectual honesty. But would be nicer if the numbers on the ground also supported the same sob-story in toto. But hey, what would I know - I am a member of the desi-RAPE exploitative class onlee.

The numbers on the ground are there for anyone who wants to keep his eyes open. Every time those numbers are posted on BRF they are pooh poohed and dismissed and those numbers and facts are as unwelcome on BRF as derogatory references to Indian Muslims. India is a shit pit and I say that as I claim to be a fully patriotic Hindu Indian living in India.

The only interesting question to me is whether the same people who see Muslims as the biggest threat also tend to pooh pooh the horrifying non Islamic realities of India, some of which don't even make it to the statistics tables. One can call this pseudo secularism and sweeping the Muslim threat under the carpet. But I insist on doing exactly that as long a I perceive that a whole lot of other problems are equally being swept under the carpet by nationalist patriotic Indic bharatiya bhoomiputras of BRF.

If BRF is going to sanitize one kind of info why not keep it sanitized of other types of info? And if BRF is going to discuss the islam threat let us see if BRF is bold enough to discuss other threats. Experience tells me that BRF is only bold enough to discuss Islam but not other threats. That is an exact mirror image of Pakistan where every threat other than the Islam threat is noticed. There should be absolutely no taqleef with the comparison.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 21:44

hasmukh wrote:Shiv,The current situation is because of all the wealth snatched from Indians first by Islamic barbarians and then by Britishers and later by durbari politicians.

Indians are losers no? Which other country has such a long history of continuous defeats? Are you asking me to love this pathetic history lesson you are giving me? Do you think I am mad to feel proud of the history of losers? India is a shit pit. You only need to live a life in India to see that. All this pride etc can come only when you are well fed and secure living in some far away land somewhere.

How about spending some time improving the lot of some Indians rather than telling them that their main problem is Mohammad.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Dec 2009 21:45

^^^ It is the exact opposite of what you are stating.
My exp on BR has been that we will discuss all problems in India other than Jihadism. Check out the red menace thread. PPle are quite vociferous abt opposing viewpoints.
However, even on the J&K thread pple will pussyfoot around the jihad issue. We are exactly that Pakistan in that every issue should be examined etc that of Jihad

I don't deny that India is a shit pit for many. Infact J&K is one of the wealthiests state, no. It's non shit pit status has not dissuaded pple from booting out, killing or converting minorities. Infact the pple who demanded pakistan were the non shit pit varieties too. It works for them to keep a number of folks in that shit pit but evolution out of it does not stop threat of disintegration.

Anyways, we were discussing the issue of national sovereignity. Evolving the community that espouses this ideology out of the "shit pit" will not resolve the sovereignity issue.

Damn, I promised myself that I had spoken my word

I shall stop becos Shivs persona number 6 has emerged and I know the sequence it will take

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 21:52

Jarita wrote:^^^ It is the exact opposite of what you are stating.
My exp on BR has been that we will discuss all problems in India other than Jihadism. Check out the red menace thread. PPle are quite vociferous abt opposing viewpoints.
However, even on the J&K thread pple will pussyfoot around the jihad issue. We are exactly that Pakistan in that every issue should be examined etc that of Jihad

You just don't know do you?

Do you want me to email you thousands of archived posts on a detailed dissection of Islam? Read through them and they say that we haven't discussed it. I started many of those threads and I guided BR through discussions about Islam when such discussions were unwelcome. I suspect I can teach a few people some lessons about the dirtiest aspects of islam. The only problem is that I am equally capable of pointing out the weaknesses of Hindus and that causes taqleef on BRF.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Dec 2009 21:55

^^^^
Damn and damn again. Don't email me those posts pls. I know what they will say.
Also, don't bother talking abt Hinduism. I learnt that in school and read/watch that in media everyday. Am well aware of real and imagined faults of Hindu Dharma

Tata

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 22:00

Jarita wrote:^^^^
Damn and damn again. Don't email me those posts pls. I know what they will say.

But you want to discuss it again? You said:

My exp on BR has been that we will discuss all problems in India other than Jihadism

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Dec 2009 22:00

Allah may try his best to be the biggest threat but he just can't compete with what India throws back at him and at everyone else. It's just one more problem - one more fracture in a body full of crushed bones. No water No food. No money. No health. No justice. No education. No opportunity. No nothing for 600 to 700 million Indians - of whom 300 million are children and suddenly Allah is worshipped here as the biggest threat. Allah is a pipsqueak as problems go.

It follows that the best thing any desi can do, however little, is to open the door of opportunity for other desis.

satya · Post by **satya** » 25 Dec 2009 22:06

Got stuck in middle of a traffic jam and as a follower of Dilli Billi , i did what was required to do , dialled 666 no and it was of my ex who happened to be a Muslim and used some of the very fine Haryanavi words( if ever wana slang it out use Haryanavi ), she listened and listened and said some ghalib shalib stuff but what Ghalib can do in front of Haryanvi ,he lost i won and yes it worked , traffic started moving , i felt nice till it was time again to call again !

On another instance , one of the buffaloes stopped giving milk , since we don't have RoP community from where i come from , it must been the evil eye of a SC/ST and again Haryanvi & its fine vocabulary came to rescue , u see language always comes to rescue but now i have learnt and a 666 number is there on fone 24/7 and its a single window /outlet for everything wrong with me err btw heaven and earth and below and it helps me to sleep

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Dec 2009 22:19

^^^ Good one

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 25 Dec 2009 22:21

shiv wrote:
sum wrote: Conclusion: Things on IM front are not as hunky dory as BR would want to have
Correct. But things are not as hunky dory on the rest of India front either. One needs to live in India along with these traitorous Pakistani-brain Muslims living among us in India to see that these Muslim traitors and us nationalist bhoomi putra patriots are all getting screwed by the same bunch of people and things in India.
.

Shiv a small feedback -- knock of the Rahul Mehta like "I am for commons, you guys are anti commons" rhetoric which seems to have become your touchstone to handle all debate to Nuclear to Jihadism, please pretty please. (and before maulna N cube goes postal, this is based on info YOU have posted on publicly visible threads)

I dare say many of us with views different from yours are more common than some one who play golf with retired and serving generals in Bangalore golf course.

Pretty please.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Dec 2009 22:40

IB4TL time?

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 25 Dec 2009 22:43

shiv wrote:
sum wrote: Conclusion: Things on IM front are not as hunky dory as BR would want to have
Correct. But things are not as hunky dory on the rest of India front either. One needs to live in India along with these traitorous Pakistani-brain Muslims living among us in India to see that these Muslim traitors and us nationalist bhoomi putra patriots are all getting screwed by the same bunch of people and things in India.

You spend some years living continuously in India without moving off to western wonderland and realise that even Islam is not going to get you a good life, and certainly not belonging to any other religion. But if you have the right birth and the right connections your life is made.

This fact seems to escape many people who live part time or full time in wonderland instead of the shit pit that India actually is for 80% of Indians. Hence the sekoolarism of BR, because shit is fully secular. But cognitive dissonance does not want us RAPE equivalent Indians to admit that India is actually a shit pit in terms of life for 80% of Indians. Don't let NDTV, Zee and Star fool you into thinking that India is wonderland. Just like RAPE we insist that all is hunky dory in India and that these bloody Mohammad worshipping Mooslims are the biggest threat. That is cloud cuckoo land.

Indian Muslims may be a problem community but the threat they represent is hardly the biggest or the most severe. Allah may try his best to be the biggest threat but he just can't compete with what India throws back at him and at everyone else. It's just one more problem - one more fracture in a body full of crushed bones. No water No food. No money. No health. No justice. No education. No opportunity. No nothing for 600 to 700 million Indians - of whom 300 million are children and suddenly Allah is worshipped here as the biggest threat. Allah is a pipsqueak as problems go.

Shiv, it is true that millions of Indians live in a 'shit pit', as you call it. The difference here lies in what do these millions of Indians see as a solution to their problems.Some of the Muslims who lie in this 'shit pit' credit all their problems to certain causes which have been discussed here many times before. It is this extra dimension to these 'shit pit' people that makes all the difference & thats where the threat comes from.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 25 Dec 2009 23:15

derkonig wrote:
shiv wrote:No water No food. No money. No health. No justice. No education. No opportunity. No nothing for 600 to 700 million Indians - of whom 300 million are children and suddenly Allah is worshipped here as the biggest threat. Allah is a pipsqueak as problems go.
This sounds more like a description of Bakstan that India. True, India has its share of problems but the situation is not this bad. While the posters are concerned about the intentions of the IMs & rightfully so, let us not forget the other sekoolaar communities. All in all, Bharat faces grave risk from non-Indics.

The chances of me kicking the bucket due to
-unsafe sanitary water
-unsafe hosptals
-crossing the unsafe road
is higher than actually being on the receiving end of an baki IED.

Infact, the callousness of gobar-mund(state and central) has caused more deaths than the so called followers of ROP. NRI rakshaks need to start smelling the urine-heavy, fecal-induced heavy desi air to get some perspective check of what exactly the common yindoo feels on the ground. TOI/CNN IBN is not India.

Thanks to Shiv for putting it across so eloquently.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 25 Dec 2009 23:25

Nayak wrote:The chances of me kicking the bucket due to
-unsafe sanitary water
-unsafe hosptals
-crossing the unsafe road
is higher than actually being on the receiving end of an baki IED.

Infact, the callousness of gobar-mund(state and central) has caused more deaths than the so called followers of ROP. NRI rakshaks need to start smelling the urine-heavy, fecal-induced heavy desi air to get some perspective check of what exactly the common yindoo feels on the ground. TOI/CNN IBN is not India.

Thanks to Shiv for putting it across so eloquently.

At least in its defence the gobarmand can claim apathy/callousness for the civilians loosing their lives, is the same true for RoP? Besides, lets not denigrate those who lost their lives in attacks by Muslim terrorists in India.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 25 Dec 2009 23:38

Nayak wrote:
derkonig wrote:
This sounds more like a description of Bakstan that India. True, India has its share of problems but the situation is not this bad. While the posters are concerned about the intentions of the IMs & rightfully so, let us not forget the other sekoolaar communities. All in all, Bharat faces grave risk from non-Indics.
The chances of me kicking the bucket due to
-unsafe sanitary water
-unsafe hosptals
-crossing the unsafe road
is higher than actually being on the receiving end of an baki IED.

Infact, the callousness of gobar-mund(state and central) has caused more deaths than the so called followers of ROP. NRI rakshaks need to start smelling the urine-heavy, fecal-induced heavy desi air to get some perspective check of what exactly the common yindoo feels on the ground. TOI/CNN IBN is not India.

Thanks to Shiv for putting it across so eloquently.

And all of the problems you mentioned can be solved and they are not people specific either. Neither are these problems big enough to threaten the unity of the nation. Jihadism, however, threatens to rip off the social fabric of the country if left unchecked. IMs are not the villains here, they are the possible victims who need saving but is anyone listening?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Dec 2009 00:05

Nayak wrote:NRI rakshaks need to start smelling the urine-heavy, fecal-induced heavy desi air to get some perspective check of what exactly the common yindoo feels on the ground.

Ahha...one quick look at the references to defecation and faeces over the last few posts and I knew that the paw-prints of the good Doc Shiv could not be far behind! Like identifying a tiger by its spoor... Thank you Doc, for your exemplary dedication in keeping us NRI Rakshaks all firmly grounded with feet and eyes on the sh*tty reality of India.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Dec 2009 01:36

While not denying what Nayak or Shiv say, I submit that at least the Goberment in all its twisted, inefficient way is trying to improve things sincerely.

Now while Indian citizens can bear with the gobernment, and understand the efforts being made, for that is the only way things will improve, I fail to see why Indian citizens should tolerate any external force who seek to murder and maim indian citizens?

Why should we let pakistan have it easy? That country has failed to develop itself, and now its only aim in whatever life that its got left is to damage India and its development. Its military officers still dream of revenge, its civic society and islamists dream of an islamic revolution with the aim of essentially destroying our way of life.

Back to bashing the pookis.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 26 Dec 2009 04:56

Archan
You need to judge Shiv by the same yardstick. He made some random statements and deliberately provoked pple. After that the guy scuttled away. It's duplicitous to say the least.
If others can get warnings, bans and deletions, than one needs to examine the agent provocateur as well.

Shiv,
Much as I admire your posts on several subjects this is nasty

archan · Post by **archan** » 26 Dec 2009 04:59

Jarita, please take your comments/suggestions/complaints to feedback thread. I will soon be cleaning this thread of everything I find that is OT. We know what shiv does, what he means, and why he does it.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 26 Dec 2009 06:07

shiv wrote:Indians are losers no? Which other country has such a long history of continuous defeats? Are you asking me to love this pathetic history lesson you are giving me? Do you think I am mad to feel proud of the history of losers? India is a shit pit. You only need to live a life in India to see that. All this pride etc can come only when you are well fed and secure living in some far away land somewhere.

How about spending some time improving the lot of some Indians rather than telling them that their main problem is Mohammad.

Thank you so much for your eloquent writings Shiv saar. I couldn't have put it in better words. I got myself in trouble in some events describing Indians as India's biggest problem.

archan · Post by **archan** » 26 Dec 2009 06:30

Shankk wrote: Thank you so much for your eloquent writings Shiv saar. I couldn't have put it in better words. I got myself in trouble in some events describing Indians as India's biggest problem.

Which part of my post stating to not post any more OT posts did you not understand?

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 26 Dec 2009 06:56

[quote="archan"Which part of my post stating to not post any more OT posts did you not understand?[/quote]

I started reading from page 66 where I left off and came across Shiv's post and responded. Now I can't delete my post. Feel free to delete it.

archan · Post by **archan** » 26 Dec 2009 07:00

Shankk wrote: I started reading from page 66 where I left off and came across Shiv's post and responded. Now I can't delete my post. Feel free to delete it.

..and my post in question is a long post on page 67.

yes I will delete all the OT posts soon. There is just so many of them that I have to go re read everything all over again and pick each post.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Dec 2009 18:54

To all Breapers

Requesting permission to jump in.

sanjeevs · Post by **sanjeevs** » 30 Dec 2009 19:19

Any chance we can keep this thread accessible only to logged in members? Right now its public and INMVHO there is really no need to allow any passer-by an inside look into this very internal affair.

Just my 2C.

Thanks

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 30 Dec 2009 19:30

My 2 cents, but just like RayC feels for secularism, the other posters like Brihaspati & co. (me included) feel strongly about Hinduism. RayC may have his instances of non-Indics showing patriotism towards Bharat, but so are there umpteen instances wherein Bharat has been let down by these non-Indics. Therefore it bodes ill for this forum if voices are stifled or opinions are dismissed as being "dangerous to India's secular fabric". Let there be no censorship of opinions.

We may not have served in the Indian armed forces or for that matter had the opportunity to defend our motherland in the battlefields, but that does not mean that our concerns & opinions can be dismissed. As honest & equal citizens of Bharat, it is our right to raise concerns about other citizens and communities that reside here.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Dec 2009 20:25

RayC-ji

As one of the persons who often disagreed with you, I would like to say this –

Every Indian is proud of Indian Armed Forces. These million plus men and women are the shoulders of Bharat Mata, who are expected to protect this nation and look out for external enemies. To do that job, this nation is allocating >2.4% of GDP for 0.001% population. This is nearly 2400 times the national average wealth distribution.

Most of other members of this forum are the workforce that creates the wealth required to support Indian Armed Forces. No one can say who is contributing more, because it depends on the geopolitical environment. The Javan becomes the hero in times of war, and the Kisan will be the hero in times of peace. Claiming superiority by virtue of your IA history is dishonorable and is like abusing the mother that gave birth to you and raised you when you cannot care for yourself.

The so-called Hindutva-vadis of this forum represent ~80% population in India. In a democracy the majority rules. Denying the majority sentiments the just place in the nation building is undemocratic and unsustainable. Till 1947 India was fighting two different wars at the same time. It has won the war against foreign rule and colonialism. It lost the war against religious-intolerance.

Unless India becomes truly independent in its psyche and intellect, it will not be able to determine what values it is trying to protect and what believes it is fighting against. Without that clarity India will never achieve victory, internally or externally. Like someone said, all our enemies have to do to reset India’s economic growth is to repeat a 11/26 every so-often.

The lack-of toilets and civic infrastructure have nothing to do with religion or political inclination. This logic is very Paki by definition. I do not even think it is government's responsibility to teach its citizens personal and social hygiene. This fact remained so during the 54 years of secular leadership and 6+ years of Hindutva leadership. Poverty, lack of civic infrastructure pervades all regions and political parties – whether it is JK/NE/Andhra/Mumbai/WB/Kerala, OR it is TDP/BJP/INC/NC/CPI/AGP.

In an debate the logic and facts rule. You have won against many arguments when you have truth and reasoning on your side. You will win this time too, if you have these on your side.

Warm regards,

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 30 Dec 2009 21:02

RamaY wrote:.............
Most of other members of this forum are the workforce that creates the wealth required to support Indian Armed Forces. No one can say who is contributing more, because it depends on the geopolitical environment. The Javan becomes the hero in times of war, and the Kisan will be the hero in times of peace. Claiming superiority by virtue of your IA history is dishonorable and is like abusing the mother that gave birth to you and raised you when you cannot care for yourself.
.................

You are twisting his words.
His comments were:

RayC wrote: I have fought wars against Pakistan with SC troops and minorities who braved their lives for you and me.

RayC wrote: Bahpti and his ilk have done nothing compared to my friend and my soldiers who have saved what is India from 1947. They have been Muslims and Christians apart from Hindus. Are they do be demeaned and insulted?

Where does he claim his superiority because he has served in IA? He merely states that he has served with soldiers (belonging to minorities) who have served in IA with as much devotion as any other and deserve our respect.
I do not support or oppose the opinion in your post. I just urge you not to twist someone's words to make your point. If you do so, it would only give take away strength and credibility from your point.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 30 Dec 2009 21:13

Gaur wrote: Where does he claim his superiority because he has served in IA?

Not on this particular post maybe, but the claim of being a superior nationalist on account of having served in the armed forces, has been made on innumerable previous posts

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Dec 2009 21:16

Gaur wrote:
RamaY wrote:.............
Most of other members of this forum are the workforce that creates the wealth required to support Indian Armed Forces. No one can say who is contributing more, because it depends on the geopolitical environment. The Javan becomes the hero in times of war, and the Kisan will be the hero in times of peace. Claiming superiority by virtue of your IA history is dishonorable and is like abusing the mother that gave birth to you and raised you when you cannot care for yourself.
.................
You are twisting his words.

I could be wrong Gaur-ji!

But I thought he said this, here

RayC wrote: Bahpti and his ilk have done nothing compared to my friend and my soldiers who have saved what is India from 1947. They have been Muslims and Christians apart from Hindus. Are they do be demeaned and insulted?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Dec 2009 21:30

Another point I would like to make:

Indian Armed Forces are not an alien organization. It is build and supported by this great nation. It is one of many successful organizations modern India built. While I am proud of IA, I am equally proud of our police forces, administration etc who maintained their secular credentials in testing times, such as riots, even when they have higher stakes involved.

Take any Govt or Private organization and you will see Indian secularism at work. It is not an unique property of IA. Even RSS has non-hindu members. Do we have any Hindu members in abrahamic-religious organizations? I will be glad to be proved wrong!

Like Ajim Prem-ji said in his Charlie Rose interview, it is the Hindu majority that is protecting Indian secularism. Not the otherway round.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 30 Dec 2009 21:31

RayC wrote:
derkonig wrote:My 2 cents, but just like RayC feels for secularism, the other posters like Brihaspati & co. (me included) feel strongly about Hinduism. RayC may have his instances of non-Indics showing patriotism towards Bharat, but so are there umpteen instances wherein Bharat has been let down by these non-Indics. Therefore it bodes ill for this forum if voices are stifled or opinions are dismissed as being "dangerous to India's secular fabric". Let there be no censorship of opinions.

We may not have served in the Indian armed forces or for that matter had the opportunity to defend our motherland in the battlefields, but that does not mean that our concerns & opinions can be dismissed. As honest & equal citizens of Bharat, it is our right to raise concerns about other citizens and communities that reside here.
I don't really bother of who let down who down history, but I can sure say in modern times, while Hindus have done well, the minorities have not let down India in war. Jai Chand comes to mind, and I daresay he is a minority!

Muslims cannot fight Muslims as per their religious code, but I can stand by them to say that they have not let India down.

Therefore, when they are tar and feathered across the board, one's sensibilities are unnerved.

Albert Ekka a PVC was a Christian soldier and he won a PVC.

Of course, where it is wrong, there is no hassle if given with facts!

RamaY,

One may create wealth for the country supporting soldiers and war fighting, but what if they did not do so? Would your create the wealth be any use?

Unless of course you would stand post, which you have not!

Munna,

I would be the last one to support Khalistanis or terrorists in J&K. If they have troubled you, I will say the system has failed you. I was a part of the system and so I can only say, sorry for our failure!

So, let us not take credit without any reason!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 30 Dec 2009 21:34

RamaY wrote:Another point I would like to make:

Indian Armed Forces are not an alien organization. It is build and supported by this great nation. It is one of many successful organizations modern India built. While I am proud of IA, I am equally proud of our police forces, administration etc who maintained their secular credentials in testing times, such as riots, even when they have higher stakes involved.

Take any Govt or Private organization and you will see Indian secularism at work. It is not an unique property of IA. Even RSS has non-hindu members. Do we have any Hindu members in abrahamic-religious organizations? I will be glad to be proved wrong!

Like Ajim Prem-ji said in his Charlie Rose interview, it is the Hindu majority that is protecting Indian secularism. Not the otherway round.

I am totally with you.

This is what I was saying all along.

Every society has its divide and for good reasons too. Sane people like you should overlook them as far as feasible and try to stitch society so that we not only survive but become strong!

Tilting at windmills like Don Quixote does not help!

Let me tell you. In Kolkata the rule is that you can use a loudspeaker with decibel levels only from 0600 to 2200h. Yet, early morning, you have the muezzins blaring away before the stipulated time. I have complained to the SHO, but nothing has happened. What can one do?