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Raveen
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Raveen » 15 Oct 2009 01:30

veerav wrote:Chill down Karthik! You do not have to take the high seat of calling someones comments as garbage and 'XXXXing'.

The point here is that can we push the IOC and FOC dates with an expectation that LCA initally runs on Ge 404? If the uncertainitiy of engine is taken out of the equation, what else is preventing to expand the testign envelop at higher pace and acheive the IOC early.

Admins - I requst you to take note of this bad language and issue warnings.....


The issue that had Kartik riled up has been raised and discussed to death repeatedly and would drive a regular reader/follower of this thread insane. I would suggest you let constructive members like Kartik who have been regulars at BR and have contributed to the wealth of knowledge have some lattitude when it comes to old issues being rehashed. Eventually, ppl need to start searching before posting or asking; it is counter productive to go back to square one every so many pages with the same flawed logic only to reach the same conclusion. I would recommend reading before posting to prevent a repeat performance, Kartik is not to be blamed for being frustrated at this.
Considering your post count, I would suggest you contribute constructively rather than run to the headmaster at the drop of a hat without knowing the background. BRAdmins are fairly proactive in anycase.

Moreover, as an answer to your question...would you trust a car I build in my backyard using a M800 engine just because millions of ppl have tested the engine?

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No separate visas, India tells China

Postby Krishna_V » 28 Oct 2009 03:46

[url]No separate visas, India tells China[/url]

RayC
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 11:14

RamaY wrote:Thank you RayC-ji. I agree with the important part of your post. The rest is how each one of us wants to address the problem. Some wants to offer more accommodation, others self-flagging, and the rest to show tough-love.

My apologies if I attributed something to you that you did not say. Please read your own posts to see the tone/language you use to criticize Hindu leaders and the tone/language you use to criticize the others. You will get the picture.

I am proud of Indian armed forces. But you are wrong in that it is army that is keeping India ONE. It goes against the point you made in another thread, that army will obey the GOI decision. For example if the political leadership of India decides to give up a part of India, either to become an independent entity or to be part of another nation, army has to accept that decision.

In India the paramount authority is PM and his counsel of ministers. That is why they are made responsible (good or bad) for everything that happens in this nation. Every other group or stakeholder including Indian armed forces play a supportive role at best.

It is natural for a group to think too much about its own contributions. To be honest, with all due respect, IMVHO the police force deserves more kudos than the armed forces. They are ill trained, under equipped, are exposed to all the influences of civil society, yet fight equally dangerous, if not more dangerous, enemies such as Maoists, terrorists, and mafia.

Neither of us know Baba Ramdev’s strategy or preferences behind attending the meeting. Imagine what would you think/say if he rejects the invitation of Darul, prior to their fartwa against Vandemataram?

I am a Hindu and am proud of being a Hindu. I believe that India owes its secular democracy to its Hindu majority. My personal beliefs and preferences do not matter when I discuss about India’s strategic future and leadership.

Hinduism cannot be treated as a religion as defined in western-construct. Hinduism is a way of life in its true sense and form. In that aspect, Hinduism must be and will be part of Indian strategic landscape, whether one likes it or not. A RSS, a Baba Ramdev, a Satya Saibaba, an Amritanandamai are part of this nation building. Any ideology that is not from this land will run the risk of being loyal to non-indian interests. If someone doesn’t see it, that is their opinion.

P.S: I am not a member of RSS or any other religious/political/social group/organization. I just have a different POV from that of yours. You are a moderator and are most welcome to delete any of my posts if they are not related to the thread or (ask me to) move them to the right thread.

Why should I quit BRF, just because I do not like your/others perspective?



I have nothing against any religion or any religious individual/ icon.

You claim that I should observe my tone and language when I wonder loudly about the Indic laurels. I presume the same analogy could be applied to the posts that allude to the alleged shenanigans committed by the so called Abrahamic faiths. It takes two to tango as they say.

Any act that destabilises India, I will confess, upsets me. Religion has become a flashpoint in our country and is being cashed on to create greater societal schisms. Evangelism and more so through fraud and allurement is hard to accept since that is not being true to oneself. But then, one should not take law into one’s hand.

While I do not have the first hand knowledge of the Kandhamal incident, I am left bewildered as to how BJP lost in Orissa is such a dismal manner. Yet, why was the Sant killed in the first place and why did the State machinery not ensure that there was harmony so that the Sant was not killed that unleashed the mayhem? Why did the nun who claims to have been raped not ordered to depose (which she did as if doing a favour)? The mess we are in is not the fault of any Abrahamic skulduggery. It is our own making.

I find the escapism of blaming everyone and every other faith for our own fault very frustrating. If the laws were firm and it was firmly implemented then such skulduggery would not have occurred! Even if one takes that the Missionaries of Charity are doing great work as correct, one should see that behind the great work there lies the harvesting of souls too! Nothing wrong. Good work. Why the Dickens can the Hindus not also harvest the souls instead of talking of the glorious Indic past? If the past was glorious, let us keep the present glorious too. Why lament and fret and fume here on this forum. All talk and little action! I have many a time spoken of the Bharat Seva Ashram’s work. Take a leaf off their book and those who feel that they must get their act together must get cracking rather than lamenting or indulging in their glorious past!

The IA obeys the GOI directive. But the internal ethos and traditions are not ordered by the GOI. It is totally an Indian Army prerogative. If one were to emulate the general societal precedence, then things would be different. It is already affecting. Because of old traditions none questions orders and hence obeys them. If the IA is not holding the country as One, why call them in when the walls crumble? Be it a natural calamity, riots, law and order or public services collapsing, the Army is called in! In Calcutta when the garbage chaps went on strike, it was the Army which was called in! So, please, will all due regards, I cannot accept your contention that we are trumpeting our deeds. They are there for all to see. Policing or bringing order is not the Army’s job. It is that of the Police and the paramilitary. So, what have you to say of that?

If the GOI wants to sell the country, unlike Pakistani Army, the Army will have to accept it. However, we have faith in the GOI that nothing as foolish as that would be done. When Siachen was to be demilitarised as per the Govt’s indicating after the Havana Meet, the IA prevailed upon the Govt that it would be catastrophic and the GOI recanted! Let us not think that the Govt is staffed in the Cabinet by stupid people!

Of course the police force requires kudos. They are ill trained, ill equipped etc etc and yet they function! Who is responsible for their training and equipment? Is training not a command responsibility? Is being ill trained and ill equipped a badge of great efficiency? The IA is ill equipped but not ill trained. Who is responsible? The IA hierarchy right from the Havildar upwards. Is it a crime to be well trained even if deprived of good equipment? Indian Army is also exposed to societal changes and pressures.

I respect your love for Baba Ramdev, but yesterday in We the People, a Muslim youth won my heart when he said that he would sing Vande Mataram without any qualms since it was a part of India, his country’s heritage. He was a brave boy and Bukhari pounced on him but was stopped in his track. There are many like this Muslim youth, let us not scare them back into their shell. Baba Ramdev was also on this show and he came out as a damp squib! I am not aware of Ramdev’s strategy, but this much I know, one should have no truck with forces than spawn organisations like SIMI. I wonder if you have heard of the Tablighi Jamaat, which follows the Deoband instructions. They have penetrated Europe and the US. Check the Hadley case!

No one has asked you to quit BRF. I have only indicated most politely to Pullikeshi that none has coerced us to join BRF and we are free to quit. Have I told you so? As I have no time to wade through all the posts, do indicate where I asked you to quit!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 11:33

Pulikeshi wrote:
RayC wrote:Check your posts!

As far as the BRF is concerned, we have no religious or political agenda or so I understand.


RayC - this is directed at you.

Being proud of ones religious and cultural tradition in itself cannot be accused of
inciting divisions. If you don't understand this distinction - than shame on you for
accusing me falsely and shame on me if I do not stand up to false accusations.

RayC wrote:May this refresh your memories!
Don't weasel out!


Grow up! - this is not a competition.
I accept that you have the best intentions for India in mind.
As far as your response, I cannot characterize if to deserve one from me.
Don't deny my care for the notion of Bharat aka India.

Bharat Rakshak Forum -

This is general feedback to BRF - RayC it got nothing to do with you
You are merely the business end of the stick on this one:

Some of us care for a Bharat, an ancient civilization, that preexisted the current secular Indian state.
This forum requires that members such as me who care about Bharat
conform to the contours of a sanitized, unnatural and bland version of the diversity
exhibited by Bharat even today - that some how this is the only way, a new way.
Realize that the Forum is not a state to remain secular - it is a social network! :roll:
Military folks may love following orders - civilians do not :mrgreen:

The admins here seem keen to impose on us mere posters the same sanitized, unnatural
and bland version of their belief in what Bharat, nay India, is to them.
Faced with opposition, we are asked to go elsewhere, as this forum's distorted version of
Bharat must be maintained for whatever reason - which is irrelevant to me.

In the face of relentless pressure to maintain such artificial contours,
what I have seen (having been here since the start) is that intelligent opinion is
slowly giving way to conspiracy theories, collective group thinks, etc.

PS: Here is a hypothetical experiment for you - shut down the Strategy and Economic
Forum and see how many folks remain or for that matter come back.

Bharat is not anyone's bap ka jaydad, if someone cares to represent it in a way
that does not conform with the truth or the diversity in thought it exhibits
and if they claim to be Rakshak's of such a concept -
expect to be challenged - Simple enough! :twisted:

As always, admins and owners you are free to ignore my feedback - :mrgreen:
It is an agenda to have no religious or political agenda and yet allow it to exist. :rotfl:
The joke is on all of us posters that we have been pre-judged to not know the difference
between normative and non-normative arguments.

This is where the strategic leadership for the future of India is to emerge! :shock: :eek: :roll:


My good friend none asked you to leave BRF.

But if you accuse it of being undemocratic, and you are entitled to feel so, then I merely suggested find a democratic niche for yourself. Is that very unfair?

Be proud of your religion, but don’t wear it on your sleeve and abuse other religions allowed to exist shoulder to shoulder by the Constitution! If Indic or Hinduism is superb, well and good! No quibbles on that. However, if one has to debunk other religions, do add the facts as to why and not a general statement! Nowhere have I seen that BRF is a Hindu forum and when B Raman feels it is so, it does hurt since B Raman is taken as an authority!

I have accused you of nothing. Who am I? Your posts stand as witness!

Please feel free to debunk what I have stated. Why rant and rave with generalities?

No one has asked you to go elsewhere. You have yourself stated that unlike India which is a democracy, BRF is not.

Indeed, if BRF is not democratic, then why waste time out here?

I am not a business end of BRF. None pays me, none asks me to give a ‘plug’.

I daresay I did not care for Bharat and I want it to crumble!


Too bad the Constitution speak that it is a secular country.

Change it.

I will toe your line!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Pulikeshi » 09 Nov 2009 19:49

RayC wrote:Nowhere have I seen that BRF is a Hindu forum and when B Raman feels it is so, it does hurt since B Raman is taken as an authority!


That is one person's opinion, just as I have expressed mine.
If B Raman wants to come to BRF to express such an opinion he is free to do so - right?
I for one missed that post!

RayC wrote:However, if one has to debunk other religions, do add the facts as to why and not a general statement!


Yes, I have and they were done under special circumstances when questions were raised.
You cannot translate conversations held in an intellectual plane and apply them directly to the social.
Of course if any of my facts were incorrect, I have rightly been challenged by others here.

RayC wrote:Indeed, if BRF is not democratic, then why waste time out here?

Too bad the Constitution speak that it is a secular country.


I am glad the Constitution guarantees secularism and hope it stays that way.
What you do not seem to get is that people need not practice secularism.
We have to learn to agree to disagree in a peaceful way.
My time is mine and I am pretty good a managing it :mrgreen:

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 20:58

Yes, I have and they were done under special circumstances when questions were raised.
You cannot translate conversations held in an intellectual plane and apply them directly to the social.
Of course if any of my facts were incorrect, I have rightly been challenged by others here.


Same is applicable to my posts!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:01

Muppalla wrote:RayC,

Just an FYI

B.Raman was/is a member of BRF and he used to post here. The comment he made during kandhahar/(or some other terror attack) - The armed forces men and women are paid to die and he implied as though we don't need to care that much about them. Whatever the context it was and I am not the judge of whether it is correct or not. It did look very insensitive on an Indian Mil forum.

He was here even before you joined this forum ( unless if you are a lurker/ with other handle during those days).

BRF is a massively read forum by many folks from all strata of society. The MODs are doing a great job in keeping it fair and balanced of whatever the percieved right and left of India. There are times when a certain difficult topics were allowed to be discussed. We all hope the tradition continues. However, it does not look good if you imply that the new policy of moderation is due to comment from one B.Raman. I hope whatever you guys are doing is based on a greater judgement and not a knee-jerk reaction just due to B.Raman's noise.


B Raman is no Tom, Dick and Harry!

He is heard unlike you and me!

Or maybe me, and you maybe heard, I don't know!

When he writes, it matters!

Is the BRF a Hindu forum?

There maybe a huge number of posters who are Hiduvta aligned, but I don't think the management is!

My issue is that if I defend other religions, it is sacrilege, but when other laud Hinduism or covered glibly as Indic, that is purer than the snow of Mount Etna.

I am totally against conversion by coercion or allurement. fraud or magic or not singing Vande Mataram on silly grounds. Yet, I am against if one feels Hinduism is alone the stellar contribution to India.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:09

Brihaspati's posts, I will honestly state, is the type I cannot understand even if profound!

It has depth, but beyond mortals as me!

The posts which I understand are total delight since it has so much to say and so much to think about!

All I say let us narrow the divides and not make them wider!

If such a thought is wrong, then I am wrong!

It was a delight to see the Muslim boy taking on Buhari in We the People that he will sing Vande Mataram with all the passion that is there in the song!

Many who have studied in Christian schools have said the Lord's Prayer. Did it make us Christians or change the religion?

Goodness of life is not the sole preserve of anyone! Or any religion!

God Bless the boy!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Pulikeshi » 09 Nov 2009 21:15

RayC wrote:There maybe a huge number of posters who are Hiduvta aligned, but I don't think the management is!


Where do you get off on this?
There is no need to label folks for having opinions. Half of whose opinion you scarcely understand.
Is it not similar to someone accusing the Management and you of being "Godless Communists!"

RayC wrote:It was a delight to see the Muslim boy taking on Buhari in We the People that he will sing Vande Mataram with all the passion that is there in the song!

God Bless the boy!


Also, condescending and patronizing! He is a citizen and has the right to do so.
Nothing to be happy or sad about. If someone does not want to sing a song, let him not!

Brihaspati wrote:Is this a sign of convergence towards a stronger "centre" or basically a step towards increasing political leadership vacuum? I am inclined towards the latter position.


Yep! Indeed seems so!

I'd suggest we heed B's advice and take a break on this...

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:20

Pulikeshi wrote:
RayC wrote:There maybe a huge number of posters who are Hiduvta aligned, but I don't think the management is!


Where do you get off on this?
There is no need to label folks for having opinions. Half of whose opinion you scarcely understand.


Does one have to go far? ;)


RayC wrote:
It was a delight to see the Muslim boy taking on Buhari in We the People that he will sing Vande Mataram with all the passion that is there in the song!

God Bless the boy!


Also, condescending and patronizing! He is a citizen and has the right to do so.
Nothing to be happy or sad about. If someone does not want to sing a song, let him not!


It is good to act so coy.

However, the posts here does not even acknowledge that there are those who are above religion!

Is it not similar to someone accusing the Management and you of being "Godless Communists!"
I'd suggest we heed B's advice and take a break on this...


Indeed.

since you are so good a person, start it!

I shall be indebted!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Muppalla » 09 Nov 2009 21:23

RayC wrote:B Raman is no Tom, Dick and Harry!
He is heard unlike you and me!
Or maybe me, and you maybe heard, I don't know!
When he writes, it matters!
Is the BRF a Hindu forum?
There maybe a huge number of posters who are Hiduvta aligned, but I don't think the management is!


That is where the problem is. It is his perception and is it the perception of several such NON-Tom-Dicks? We do not know. If you change the life style because of ONE-NON-Tom-Dick then I am afraid to call it as a knee-jerk reaction. I still hope it is not the case.

Regarding BRF a Hindu forum - It was never a Hindu forum. Several generations of Mods tried really hard to keep it centristic even at the cost of extremely knowleded members. Well if a substantial majority of the current active posters are so called "Hindutvawadi" types, then what can you do unless an advertisement is published to enrol the other types? Ultimately a post is a thought and how can you police a thought beyond a certain limit? Everything in the contemporary world is about religion as Samuel Huntington rightly wrote we are going through a "Clash of Civilizations". The war in Iraq, Eastern Europe, around Russia or AfPak are all in reality a big chunk of stuff is due to religion/ethnicity. How can you totally ignore such an aspect when we discuss leadership of India?

Out of several threads in the non-hidden forums a couple of them go in that route. Is that also a huge problem for those NON-Tom-Dicks? Can't they not ignore such threads instead of making a broad-brushed statements.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:36

Muppalla wrote:
RayC wrote:B Raman is no Tom, Dick and Harry!
He is heard unlike you and me!
Or maybe me, and you maybe heard, I don't know!
When he writes, it matters!
Is the BRF a Hindu forum?
There maybe a huge number of posters who are Hiduvta aligned, but I don't think the management is!


That is where the problem is. It is his perception and is it the perception of several such NON-Tom-Dicks? We do not know. If you change the life style because of ONE-NON-Tom-Dick then I am afraid to call it as a knee-jerk reaction. I still hope it is not the case.

Regarding BRF a Hindu forum - It was never a Hindu forum. Several generations of Mods tried really hard to keep it centristic even at the cost of extremely knowleded members. Well if a substantial majority of the current active posters are so called "Hindutvawadi" types, then what can you do unless an advertisement is published to enrol the other types? Ultimately a post is a thought and how can you police a thought beyond a certain limit? Everything in the contemporary world is about religion as Samuel Huntington rightly wrote we are going through a "Clash of Civilizations". The war in Iraq, Eastern Europe, around Russia or AfPak are all in reality a big chunk of stuff is due to religion/ethnicity. How can you totally ignore such an aspect when we discuss leadership of India?

Out of several threads in the non-hidden forums a couple of them go in that route. Is that also a huge problem for those NON-Tom-Dicks? Can't they not ignore such threads instead of making a broad-brushed statements.


If B Raman was a bum as you wish us to understand, then that is a different issue.

Since I have no idea of your background or your closeness to the powers that be I cannot comment. B Raman, as far as I know, is reckonable for those who lay down policies of governance of this country. You can think he is a bum, but I would like to analyse every word he writes!

BRF is not a Hinduvta forum, but some do go hell for leather on the issue. Please check all the posts on Indic and all that which debunks history and which terms everything unpalatable as Thaparite et al. Huntington I have read and his book is right next to me. One should read, but not swallow it like a gasping and landed fish!

The so called war that the US is waging is not a clash of civilisation. It is a war of global domination and the US is a mixed population with an Afro American as it head with no civilisation problems. Or has he?

I have no idea as to what is hidden forum and what is not! Because I could not care less!

I hate complications!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby manju » 09 Nov 2009 21:53

RayC wrote:
D Roy wrote:RayC,

..........
At the same time, what I find uncomfortable is that one (Ramu) says things and yet not upfront. Smug and coy!

Roy, wasn't there a Babaji who kicked you on the head to bless? I would be damned to be kicked for a blessing! I believe Advani visited him in Mathura to be kicked on the head!

Yoga is to give perfect health. How come one of Ramu's eye is small compared to the other eye?


This is disgusting! I wonder how someone who has'nt got the decency to adress another person respectfully gets to be a moderator.

Ray C, not that you care, you have lost my respect for you with such indecent attitude.

What has Baba Ramdev done to dererve so much of your attention!?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:58

manju wrote:
This is disgusting! I wonder how someone who has'nt got the decency to adress another person respectfully gets to be a moderator.

Ray C, not that you care, you have lost my respect for you with such indecent attitude.

What has Baba Ramdev done to dererve so much of your attention!?


Your Hinduvta has been tickled?

what has being a Moderator and Ramdev any connection?

Tell me how he is God or something fabulous?

He maybe super to you, but if I don't accept it, that is wrong?

Have a heart!

If I criticise Mamata Banerjee and her wayward ways with strikes that upset my life, I am a Communist?

I have no qualms in stating that Ramdev is overdoing his brief!

And between you and me, I am a mere poster and I neither expect or demand any privileges and so I care not what your opinion is about me. My troops still have a good opinion about me and that is what matters, even though many have not served under me! They are my life!

Baba Ramdev played politics. The Muslim boy on We the People told all who wanted to play politics that they be damned and he will sing Vande Mataram since it was the ethos the the Nation!

That is the difference.

He (the Muslim boy) is my hero and not the man Ramdev!

I find supporting a person because of religion affiliation reprehensible and more than disgusting (to quote you!).

Got that.

I post as a poster and not a Moderator!

Tell me is this man God?

Is the Muslim boy who has such guts greater than the namby pamby politics that your Ramdev was doing on the show to be ignored as less than your Ramuman?

I salute the Muslim boy since he had the guts to take on the religious firmans! What a boy and what a true Indian!!

And Ramdev goes crawling to an organisation that fosters SIMI!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby svinayak » 09 Nov 2009 22:09

manju wrote:
What has Baba Ramdev done to dererve so much of your attention!?

I am watching Baba Ramdev now. Just ignore comments in this thread but increase your reading and watching of Baba Ramdev
Do not loose heart and focus your attention to the right things.
Last edited by svinayak on 09 Nov 2009 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 22:11

I am watching the chaos in Karnataka and the money power that rules those who claim to be so pure!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 22:23

I don't understand why people like RayC batter Hinduism for Indians rejecting and refusing to accept their leadership and opting for Gandhi Nehru indeed. These kind have that Brahmo Samaji streak i.e. Brahmos wanted to defend Hinduism against Christian and Islamic aggression, but started by attacking the elements in Hinduism which contrasted most with Christianity and Islam (polytheism, idol-worship), and promoted their Christian-Islamic counterparts instead.
Last edited by gandharva on 09 Nov 2009 23:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 22:33

gandharva wrote:I don't understand why Bengalis like RayC batter Hinduism for Indians rejecting and refusing to accept their leadership. These kind have that Brahmo Samaji streak i.e. Brahmos wanted to defend Hinduism against Christian and Islamic aggression, but started by attacking the elements in Hinduism which contrasted most with Christianity and Islam (polytheism, idol-worship), and promoted their Christian-Islamic counterparts instead.



It is because we Bengalis have rationalism as our credo and not narrow thoughts.

I will defend Hinduism since it has a vast repertoire of goodness, but I find narrow chauvinism as silly. Embrace and change that should be the credo. My own family is such a mix of intercaste (including my immediate own) and inter religion and inter national, that I find it so horrifying and scary when the divides are discussed so passionately! I agree many things are wrong. Address them and not communities or religions! I personally kicked a priest for fraudulent chicanery to convert the illiterate!

What is wrong in Hinduism should change. Is that an incorrect desire? Is Çasteism worth the problem? It is only surfacing freak and corrupt leaders as Mayawati and Lalloo. Have they helped the people?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 22:40

gandharva wrote:I don't understand why Bengalis like RayC batter Hinduism for Indians rejecting and refusing to accept their leadership and opting for Gandhi Nehru indeed. These kind have that Brahmo Samaji streak i.e. Brahmos wanted to defend Hinduism against Christian and Islamic aggression, but started by attacking the elements in Hinduism which contrasted most with Christianity and Islam (polytheism, idol-worship), and promoted their Christian-Islamic counterparts instead.

hello there, how is your comment about a particular community any different in essence from RayC's comment about another community ? :wink:
anyway, never mind.

in any case, would someone kindly tell me what was supposed to be the topic for this thread ?
at the moment it seems like the nukkad thread's evil cousin.
someone please post the objective behind this thread.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Abhi_G » 09 Nov 2009 22:41

gandharva wrote:I don't understand why Bengalis like RayC batter Hinduism for Indians rejecting and refusing to accept their leadership and opting for Gandhi Nehru indeed. These kind have that Brahmo Samaji streak i.e. Brahmos wanted to defend Hinduism against Christian and Islamic aggression, but started by attacking the elements in Hinduism which contrasted most with Christianity and Islam (polytheism, idol-worship), and promoted their Christian-Islamic counterparts instead.


Do Brahmo Samaji types speak for ALL? Err... regarding idol worship...was Arya Samaj's founder a Bengali?
Last edited by Abhi_G on 09 Nov 2009 22:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby BijuShet » 09 Nov 2009 22:42

RayC, Swami Ramdev was born as Ramkishan Yadav. Any private citizen of India (and Baba Ramdev is one) should be afforded decency and respect by all who claim to love and serve India. He should not be addressed as Ramu or Charlatan or Cow Manure by you without proof and/or based on your personal opionon.

Otherwise allow all posters on BRF to refer to personalities in GoI by names they think befit the deeds of said personalities. BRF needs to either have one rule for all or clearly specify some posters have special previleges of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 22:48

Before you hang me watch my words carefully. I used "Bengalis like...". And facts are facts. Kind of contempt displayed towards UP & Bihar for sponsoring Gandhi Nehru is beyond any limit.It is worst than a racist north Indian's contempt for every thing south Indian. It was the same contempt when Jyoti Basu called BJP "uncivilized".
Last edited by gandharva on 09 Nov 2009 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 22:49

BijuShet wrote:RayC, Swami Ramdev was born as Ramkishan Yadav. Any private citizen of India (and Baba Ramdev is one) should be afforded decency and respect by all who claim to love and serve India. He should not be addressed as Ramu or Charlatan or Cow Manure by you without proof and/or based on your personal opionon.

Otherwise allow all posters on BRF to refer to personalities in GoI by names they think befit the deeds of said personalities. BRF needs to either have one rule for all or clearly specify some posters have special previleges of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.


And why not?

Please call me a Bhagwan Ray ( I am also a private citizen as your Ramu). I conceded that would be idiotic as is Baba to a person that OK a SIMI sponsoring organisation!

I have not called him Cow manure. You can call him so! Maybe you are right!

I don't and wont deify anyone who kowtows to an organisation that has spawned SIMI and has no regrets.

If SIMI is OK by you and your God Ramudevji Maharaj bhagwan, then so be it.

Not for me!

I am neither an Indic or Hindu fanatic. I am merely an Indian.

But I will be damned if I attend any organisational meet that spawns anti national organisations as SIMI.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 22:56

It is only surfacing freak and corrupt leaders as Mayawati and Lalloo. Have they helped the people?


Are they more corrupt than Nehru family?. In a way yes. Otherwise why people will elect them multiple times?.

I would not know.

I never worked in the IT dept!

If you have, let us know!


Please don't misuse your privileges as moderator and insert your replies in mine.
Last edited by gandharva on 09 Nov 2009 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:01

gandharva wrote:Before you hang me watch my words carefully. I used "Bengalis like...". And facts are facts. Kind of contempt displayed towards UP & Bihar for sponsoring Gandhi Nehru is beyond any limit.It is worst than a racist north Indian's contempt for every thing south Indian. It was the same contempt when Jyoti Basu called BJP "uncivilized".

yes, funny thing is, I CAN read "carefully" !! :eek: :eek:
and after reading your post (carefully, of course !) I find that it is not quite acceptable. question is will you see the error of your ways in bringing in the name of a community while discussing an individual (which basically means that their being bengali is somehow responsible which is of course, not acceptable). if their belonging to a certain community is not the reason then you should have no problem deleting that post ?

now, if you continue to insist that the community angle is germane to this discussion I'll have to edit that post and then warn you if you persist. your choice ! :)

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 23:04

yes, funny thing is, I CAN read "carefully" !!
and after reading your post (carefully, of course !) I find that it is not quite acceptable. question is will you see the error of your ways in bringing in the name of a community while discussing an individual (which basically means that their being bengali is somehow responsible which is of course, not acceptable). if their belonging to a certain community is not the reason then you should have no problem deleting that post ?

now, if you continue to insist that the community angle is germane to this discussion I'll have to edit that post and then warn you if you persist. your choice !


Yes Anna. I can see it. Thanks

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby BijuShet » 09 Nov 2009 23:05

RayC wrote:
BijuShet wrote:RayC, Swami Ramdev was born as Ramkishan Yadav. Any private citizen of India (and Baba Ramdev is one) should be afforded decency and respect by all who claim to love and serve India. He should not be addressed as Ramu or Charlatan or Cow Manure by you without proof and/or based on your personal opionon.

Otherwise allow all posters on BRF to refer to personalities in GoI by names they think befit the deeds of said personalities. BRF needs to either have one rule for all or clearly specify some posters have special previleges of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.


And why not?

Please call me a Bhagwan Ray ( I am also a private citizen as your Ramu). I conceded that would be idiotic as is Baba to a person that OK a SIMI sponsoring organisation!

I have not called him Cow manure. You can call him so! Maybe you are right!

I don't and wont deify anyone who kowtows to an organisation that has spawned SIMI and has no regrets.

If SIMI is OK by you, then so be it.

Not for me!

Just refresh your memory I quote your post (Posted: 05 Nov 2009 06:13 pm from page 46) of this thread.
RayC wrote:Forget about being a Hindu or a Hindu icon, I will be damned if I went to an organisation that has father institutions against India like SIMI! But if I had political aspirations, I would! Did the RSS head Bhagwat or whatever is his name go there? One must stick to one’s principles!
...
Ramdev is a charlatan in my opinion. He is entering the political arena!
...


And your posts (Posted: 05 Nov 2009 07:12 pm from page 47) of this thread.
RayC wrote:Ramdev is bullshit.
...

The above 2 posts were made by you. Just to clarify Bullshit is referred to as Cow Manure in a polite tongue. In the eyes of his followers, Baba Ramdev has earned his honorific titles of "Baba Ramdev" and "Swami Ramdev" by his yogic teachings. If you dont want to address him with these titles then you are free to refer to him by his legal name of Ramkishan Yadav. He may be Ramu to his mother but you are not his mother or a close associate so please dont keep referring to him as Ramu. If you want to be addressed as Bhagwan Ray then earn that honorific in the eyes of people who admire you. If you keep addressing Baba Ramdev as Ramu then I will assume you have been granted special previleges on this forum of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:14

Ramdev is a charlatan in my opinion.

is quite acceptable for people are free to hold opinions.
there's no law which says mods don't enjoy that right.
Ramdev is bullshit.

is not remotely acceptable. Ray sir, please do not use such terms.
if mods use un-parliamentary language, we will have no stand to admonish other members for the same.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:19

RayC wrote:
gandharva wrote:I don't understand why Bengalis like RayC batter Hinduism for Indians rejecting and refusing to accept their leadership. These kind have that Brahmo Samaji streak i.e. Brahmos wanted to defend Hinduism against Christian and Islamic aggression, but started by attacking the elements in Hinduism which contrasted most with Christianity and Islam (polytheism, idol-worship), and promoted their Christian-Islamic counterparts instead.



It is because we Bengalis have rationalism as our credo and not narrow thoughts.
..........

errr.... what about biman bose ? or buddhadeb bhattacharya ? and sundry other leaders who utter slogans with a bigoted religious fervour and 'believe' that marxism is a science (whatever that means).
paragon of rationalism, are they ? :rotfl: :rotfl:

chiner chairman amader chairman ??

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:19

gandharva wrote:
yes, funny thing is, I CAN read "carefully" !!
and after reading your post (carefully, of course !) I find that it is not quite acceptable. question is will you see the error of your ways in bringing in the name of a community while discussing an individual (which basically means that their being bengali is somehow responsible which is of course, not acceptable). if their belonging to a certain community is not the reason then you should have no problem deleting that post ?

now, if you continue to insist that the community angle is germane to this discussion I'll have to edit that post and then warn you if you persist. your choice !


Yes Anna. I can see it. Thanks

and ? are you going to delete that post or not ?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 23:21

BijuShet wrote:
BijuShet wrote:RayC, Swami Ramdev was born as Ramkishan Yadav. Any private citizen of India (and Baba Ramdev is one) should be afforded decency and respect by all who claim to love and serve India. He should not be addressed as Ramu or Charlatan or Cow Manure by you without proof and/or based on your personal opionon.

Otherwise allow all posters on BRF to refer to personalities in GoI by names they think befit the deeds of said personalities. BRF needs to either have one rule for all or clearly specify some posters have special previleges of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.


And why not?

Please call me a Bhagwan Ray ( I am also a private citizen as your Ramu). I conceded that would be idiotic as is Baba to a person that OK a SIMI sponsoring organisation!

I have not called him Cow manure. You can call him so! Maybe you are right!

I don't and wont deify anyone who kowtows to an organisation that has spawned SIMI and has no regrets.

If SIMI is OK by you, then so be it.

Not for me!

Just refresh your memory I quote your post (Posted: 05 Nov 2009 06:13 pm from page 46) of this thread.
RayC wrote:Forget about being a Hindu or a Hindu icon, I will be damned if I went to an organisation that has father institutions against India like SIMI! But if I had political aspirations, I would! Did the RSS head Bhagwat or whatever is his name go there? One must stick to one’s principles!
...
Ramdev is a charlatan in my opinion. He is entering the political arena!
...


And your posts (Posted: 05 Nov 2009 07:12 pm from page 47) of this thread.
RayC wrote:Ramdev is bullshit.
...

The above 2 posts were made by you. Just to clarify Bullshit is referred to as Cow Manure in a polite tongue. In the eyes of his followers, Baba Ramdev has earned his honorific titles of "Baba Ramdev" and "Swami Ramdev" by his yogic teachings. If you dont want to address him with these titles then you are free to refer to him by his legal name of Ramkishan Yadav. He may be Ramu to his mother but you are not his mother or a close associate so please dont keep referring to him as Ramu. If you want to be addressed as Bhagwan Ray then earn that honorific in the eyes of people who admire you. If you keep addressing Baba Ramdev as Ramu then I will assume you have been granted special previleges on this forum of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.[/quote]

You suggest that one should dance a tango with organisations which spawns SIMI?

Your quotes are out of place. Your anger that your Hinduvta is so apparent.

Indeed Bhagwat the RSS bossman did not go! Is that news? If your man, Ramdev did do and then kowtow is that my fault?

It is time you learnt English. Bullshit is not Cow manure. Bullshit has may connotation. Learn the language and then come back.

Ramu maybe your hero. Not mine. So who cares if he is an Yadav or whatever? He ius just a Yogamaster as is the Karate master! What is so special about him ? Tell me that and I will agree! Just a damned yoga master!

You may admire him. I don't. As you don't want to call me Bhagwan Ray, I wont call him what you want. He is Ramu to me and I don't have to be his Mother to call him so. He is cute child and he is worthy of adulation that a child deserve!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 23:22

It is because we Bengalis have rationalism as our credo and not narrow thoughts.
..........

errr.... what about biman bose ? or buddhadeb bhattacharya ? and sundry other leaders who utter slogans with a bigoted religious fervour and 'believe' that marxism is a science (whatever that means).
paragon of rationalism, are they ?

chiner chairman amader chairman ??


Does this include east of the border non-Indic :) ones too?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Manish_Sharma » 09 Nov 2009 23:22

BijuShet wrote:RayC, Swami Ramdev was born as Ramkishan Yadav. Any private citizen of India (and Baba Ramdev is one) should be afforded decency and respect by all who claim to love and serve India. He should not be addressed as Ramu or Charlatan or Cow Manure by you without proof and/or based on your personal opionon.

Otherwise allow all posters on BRF to refer to personalities in GoI by names they think befit the deeds of said personalities. BRF needs to either have one rule for all or clearly specify some posters have special previleges of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

I am sure being such a liberal and self admitted non Hindu, Ray would be equally tolerant of somebody criticizing his respected Shri Arvind who took limited part in freedom struggle but just after little torture from british ran away to Pondicherry to hide in a ashram. Rest of his life he claimed that he has found the secret to eternal life and he will teach everyone that secret. Lots of disciples were fooled until Shri Arvind died. Even then the Ma who was second in hierarchy refused to believe it, so did many disciples. Until the body started stinking and they had to hurriedly bury it. Then same circle was repeated with Ma until she died too. So we can call names and criticize Arvind too and Ray would generously be very very tolerant.
I did note when he mentioned three great men Ramkrishan, Vivekanand and Arvind all were from Bengal, no mention of Mahrishi Raman, JKrishnamurty etc.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 23:23

Rahul M wrote:
Ramdev is a charlatan in my opinion.

is quite acceptable for people are free to hold opinions.
there's no law which says mods don't enjoy that right.
Ramdev is bullshit.

is not remotely acceptable. Ray sir, please do not use such terms.
if mods use un-parliamentary language, we will have no stand to admonish other members for the same.


Check the American dictionary!

And please don't hector me!

Playing to the gallery is Mamta Bannerjee's business!

Bullshit? It means utter nonsense.

How come you have not checked this word before and you are supposed to be a Sharpe cookie!

1. Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
2. Something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.
3. Insolent talk or behavior.

http://www.answers.com/topic/bullshit

Mainiush,

It is Arobindo and not Arvind!

Learn to not make everything Hindi!

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 23:26

and ? are you going to delete that post or not ?


I edited objectionable part but it has been quoted so many times you may have delete or edit it on other places.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby BijuShet » 09 Nov 2009 23:27

Rahul M wrote:
Ramdev is a charlatan in my opinion.

is quite acceptable for people are free to hold opinions.
there's no law which says mods are exempt to that.

Ramdev is bullshit.

is not remotely acceptable. Ray sir, please do not use such terms.
if mods use un-parliamentary language, we will have no stand to admonish other members for the same.

I have no issue with the opinion of RayC. Like everyone else he is entitled to his and it does not have to coincide with mine. My issue is with his choice of words in expressing these opinions and using slurs while referring to Baba Ramdev. RayC used Baba Ramdev's physical shortcomings for eg his squint to poke fun of Baba Ramdev. All these, in my view are contrary to BR forum policies on posting. Any one else continually making such kinds of posts would have earned more than one warning.

If in my opinion Mr. B Raman and/or Mr. Manmohan Singh are assholes and I post such words then would that be an acceptable post? Would I not be required to furnish proof before expressing any such opinion. I ask again if all posters have to subscribe to a same set of rules or do mods get a free pass on account of Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 09 Nov 2009 23:29

Rahul M wrote:in any case, would someone kindly tell me what was supposed to be the topic for this thread ?
at the moment it seems like the nukkad thread's evil cousin.
someone please post the objective behind this thread

It is only the last few pages that has gone awry. Hopefully things will get back to normalcy.

BTW, here is Shiv's great post in the very first page:
Shiv wrote:Going into "scratched record" mode - here is my take

Two words there

1) Strategic
2) Leadership

I will leave out "leadership" as self explanatory.

"Strategic" is the ability to think strategy. This cannot be explained simply but I will try.

A man with a shotgun aiming at a flying bird needs to quickly imagine in his mind's eye where the bird will be in the air at some future point in time and aim for that point.

Aiming for a desired effect at a future date, taking as many variables into consideration is "strategy". So one definition of strategy would be the ability to accurately aim at a moving target to be reached at a future date.

What would the "target" be for India, and at what date would be two pertinent questions to define strategy for India.

A target for India would have to be a national goal. Such goals clearly exist for civil India, but I do not see a concomitant urgency in backing up those civil goals with the necessary military power and robust (honest, just) governance required. This is due to both abject ignorance and condemnable corruption among our leadership.

In addition, my personal "punga" with strategy in India is not the lack of national goals, but a degree of "naivete" - perhaps even stupidity in my view, shown by the leadership with regard to known culprits like Pakistan, China and KSA. India has shown wariness with regard to the US, but has been terribly naive about Pakistan.

I believe that the "naivete" about Pakistan has certain psychological roots, including Indian suspicion of its own Muslims and a political inability to address Indian Muslims without thinking that they want bribery, sops and a misplaced feeling that all Muslims will be happiest (and not riot or run to Pakistan) if they are compelled to be 400% Islamic, pray 5x times daily and go to Madrassas. I think these are active mistakes that have been made in India. Indian politics has attempted to make Islamic poster-boys of Indian Muslims rather than citizens by dealing kindly but firmly.

Just my view.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby gandharva » 09 Nov 2009 23:29

Check the American dictionary!


May be we all can quote http://www.urbandictionary.com and get away with anything.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... Shit%20her

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 09 Nov 2009 23:31

BhijuShet, Gandharva, Manish et al: Just let it go. There comes a point when discussions become meaningless meanderings. We are fast approaching that point (if not already). It is my guess that almost everyone can see what is happening to this thread.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Sanku » 09 Nov 2009 23:32

RayC wrote:Ramu maybe your hero. Not mine. So who cares if he is an Yadav or whatever? He ius just a Yogamaster as is the Karate master! What is so special about him ? Tell me that and I will agree! Just a damned yoga master!

You may admire him. I don't. As you don't want to call me Bhagwan Ray, I wont call him what you want. He is Ramu to me and I don't have to be his Mother to call him so. He is cute child and he is worthy of adulation that a child deserve!


Ok so now no complaints on the title of constable singh either and no banning and no editing of posts etc fine?

Arun_S was hounded for allegedly misspelling Chidambarams name -- and this is ok?

-----------------------

RayC, please stay in control as it is GoI has made it a habit of pushing away all nationalist by being mean to their view and propagating a culture of meekness (and why shortage of officers one wonders)

Dont do it on the forum by misbehaving repeatedly with Nationalists and pushing them away.

You will have a poster shortage just like officer shortage in the IA.

And please spare us the predicatble -- "I am the God Mod and I know my job and those who want to go soak their head do that" -- despite all the respect we have for you, please do understand that it gives you no right to behave nastily and puts MORE RESPONSIBILITY rather than less on your shoulders.

---------------------

And Rahul_M yes, Mods have to be holier than thou, thats why they are mods. If they want to behave like regular posters, they are welcome to do so after dropping their mod tags.


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