Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RamaY » 24 Aug 2009 03:02

The question is who bells the cat? Political leadership? Islamic religious leadership? Or Indic religious leadership?

The problem persists as long as faith based religion exists on the face of earth. The long-term goal must be to remove faith-based religion. Once this is achieved, all that remains would be Indic-spirituality.

How to build that Indic-spirituality at field level, while the macro environment is fighting overt wars?

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Atri » 24 Aug 2009 03:24

RamaY wrote:The question is who bells the cat? Political leadership? Islamic religious leadership? Or Indic religious leadership?


X-posting from partition thread..

Chiron wrote:Savarkar, in his book "Six glorious epochs of Indian history" which in turn takes reference from Prof. K P Jayaswal's Hindu Polity states this fact.

The Qazi-Mullah social structure which was cemented during the rule of Aurangzeb in Central, South-Central and North India suffered the most during Maratha expansion. As the expansion bubble of Marathas was growing and Maratha cavalry was entering new villages, the local Qazis used to flee. The dismemberment of deeply entrenched social power structure was the single greatest achievement of Marathas in their 170 years of stay.

Incidently, today's partitioned India is mostly that region of subcontinent which was under Maratha control or at least on the path of their repetitive virulent raids. Ahoms in Assam did the same thing. Sikhs unfortunately could not displace this social power-structure in Punjab and they did not get much time either. Even during the infamous raids of Bengal in 1740's by Marathas, west-Bengal was their maximum reach. They did not cross Hooghly river. In spite of their atrocities, they ensured the displacement of Muslim peasants in eastern Bengal owing to similar destruction of Qazi-Mullah social structure in western Bengal.

Why could Sikhs not replicate similar results in Punjab. Why Indian Punjab the region which was also under stable Maratha occupation for quite some time and not the western Punjab? The reason, IMHO, is that Sikhs did not rule as long as Marathas did. And secondly, Ranjit Singh ji tolerated the existence of this local power-structure in his empire. Whatever was remaining was destroyed during Partition riots.

Brihaspati ji has put forth that the tendency of Muslims, especially in India, to revert to jihadi mentality in space and times of Islamic dominance has lot to do with the ideological base of Islam. Taking this point ahead, what executes this ideological base is the Qazi-Mullah social power structure which is entrenched in few regions of India (West Punjab, Sindh, Lucknow, Some parts of UP, Bihar, Assam and West-Bengal, East Bengal, Gaandhar).

The reason I am putting forward this point is that, eventually, Indian army and civilization will have to make a choice about the nature of expansion. The method which destroys this power-structure entrenched in each and every village of above-mentioned parts of India should be prioritized over the tolerant approach of Ekaksha-Pingali Ranjit Singh ji.


ShauryaT wrote: The political leadership, I hope. How did the British manage to change and influence Hindu society? Not through guns alone. But through all the accumulated power vested in the state by its peoples. Reliance on the army to do this job would be highly inefficient and likely not have a long term success. Long term meaning, inter generational change. As this is the change we seek.


Chiron wrote:There is fundamental difference between Indic and Abrahamic memes, that is the monolithic framework. The heavily centralized system is like a Rakshasa in mythology whose life was in eye of a parrot in a heavily guarded cave. If one destroys the eye of the parrot, the Raakshasa dies. Only thing required is to overcome the heavy guard either by force or trick. Abrahamic memes rely on very strong centre. When the centre falls, everything else falls with it.

Indic memes are totally decentralized. But for few core aspects, everything else changes with space and time in Indic meme-system. This system requires a lot more extra-focus on soft-power. Of course, as Acharya ji pointed out, it also requires a strong back-up in form of prolonged application of brutal force.

The increased energy level of the society is the perfect timing to strike down such heavily guarded and entrenched social system. As things cool down, it gets exponentially difficult and expensive in terms of energy to achieve similar results. This "Loha garam hain, maar do hathauda" attitude is essential and is particularly useful in case of tackling such efficient and tremendously centralized system. At high energy levels, elimination of certain few individuals/networks/institutions/buildings/organizations and everybody associated with those entities per village will solve the problem to large extent. This has to be done by army or some special unit of army and/or intelligence during the available window-period. Later, as things cool down, politics, sociology and soft-power backed up with efficient police and strong laws can take over, just like British did and just like you are implying.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 24 Aug 2009 04:37

The time-slot in which the British did their social engineering had no real representation of Indic interests in the administrative policy of the British. They were not accountable to any segment of the Indian populations. They had complete control over all military and rashtryia coercive machinery. Such a system is like a virtual dictatorship that does not need popular election. Such a dictaorship can bring in enormous changes. Over the long run of course things will get back to real power - in terms of popular reassertion. There is the alternative hypothesis to the British leaving in 47 that it was prompted by the fear in the British of having lost essential control over the Indian portion of the BIA.

Army and administrative coercive power was a key in British social engineering success.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 25 Aug 2009 19:23

I have been repeatedly worrying on this thread about fallout of a possible strategy of first stabilization, then withdrawal that does not not look like an ignominious retreat, by the USA. In the AFG military situation, anyone who goes for stabilization of military fronts, actually loses all initiative, become static in the towns lower in the valleys - and become vulnerable and gradually are forced to retreat.

There appears to be indications in the recent statements by US commanders on the field about the apparent increases in the strength and success of the Talebs. The elections show signs of manipulation, at least in the same territories in the south where Karazai and Taleb share the same space. The PA may not be gaining any real success, as the temporary retreat of the Talebs could just indicate Tale preoccupation with the AFG elections, and the ISI+PA need to keep the Talebs supplied. What better way than to go in "hot pursuit" to provide backup resources? But the apparent retreat of the Talebs could also cover for anotherspeculation I had made long ago - that this will be a good cover to allow the Jihadis to spread back into NA and the Valley.

At the point of intrusion initiatives, PRC will increase its presence and pressures on the eastern borders. PRc could be holding more regular military exercises so that the actual aggressive gestures or actions could be covered up as one of those annual or regular military "exercises".

TSP "civilian" gov's excessive "cooperative" attitude makes me quite uncomfortable. Such acts almost always comes when they are planning longer term campiagns.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Atri » 25 Aug 2009 19:25

Three events... or rather, the way they were publicized in popular media.. I feel like looking at them in one glance..

1. India signing EULA with USA.
2. S-e-S statement of MMS where Gilani (hence TSP) apparently emerged as vindicated..
3. Jaswant Singh's and K. Sudarshan's statements exonerating Jinnah and incriminating JLN and other INC leaders where again Jinnah's struggle and existence of TSP is justified (in the eyes of Pakis, at least). This is the ultimate attestation to existence of TSP in the eyes of pakis. RSS praising Jinnah and incriminating JLN.

These three events are sort of land-mark in history, IMO.. History is not always about hard facts and records and chronology of events that occurred. It is also about how ordinary people remember or choose to remember their own past. The TSP govt and hence general populace, chose to remember Jinnah as an Islamic Hero, a Messiah who fought and earned TSP for Muslims defeating the infidels. They remember MKG, JLN as evil demons who opposed their messiah and ended up defeated.

Thus, just like their identity, their history too relies on a strong opponent of infidel Hindus who were hell-bent on destroying them. The attestation to their claim about Jinnah from RSS and BJP takes away the wind in their sails.

So does the S-e-S statement about Balochistan where the smoke-screen has perhaps eased the nerves of TSP. Simply because they are used to look into smoke-screen. The clearer picture will cause a nervous-breakdown among the TSP leadership.

Remembered the climax of the movie "the Matrix-Revolutions". The very identity of agent smith is that of an entity which is anti-Neo. Smith's aim is to overcome and convert everything including his anti-self to self. Neo's quest and struggle only bolster's smith's identity. The moment Neo accepts the identity of Smith, Smith explodes and is deleted from system in no time and entire system returns to normal.

Could the acceptance of Jinnah from their purest form of anti-self in their eyes (the Hindu Right) snowball into destruction of this fake identity?

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 25 Aug 2009 20:07

I am more inclined to accept the pattern in Islamic theology, especially the literal version represnted by the Deobandis in TSP, and the trend put on dominant position by Zia and the Saudis - that will interpret this as a sign that "Allah" has finally stirred in the hearts of the Kufr to make them voluntarily slaves to Islamic masters - just as had been promised to them.

The Deobandi line of "anti-Partition" is also something that has to be carefully suppressed - as this anti-Partition theology has been devised with a similar motive to that I have in calling for re-incorporation of TSP in India. The Deobandis correctly realize that the Partition creates also problems for Jihadization and Islamization of the entire subcontinent by the Deobandis even if the dhimmification of the elite non-muslim has proved to be a easy task. At the Partition stage, the Partition was necessary for the Islamic and the British to build up the Jihadi infrastructure and Islamic hardlining to build the strength for future Ghazwas. But now Partition and an independent existence where the non-Muslim can build up his strength is a problem. So a section of Deobandis will want de-partitioning but strictly on Islamic terms.

We want de-partitioning, but not on Islamic terms. We cannot make the mistake by which the Islamic can actually mobilize the Jihad more by adding anything to their vanity and claims of Islamic superiority.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RamaY » 25 Aug 2009 20:21

^^^

If Indian-leadership plans to fight Islamic ideology and fundamentalism in hinterland the same way it is fighting it in the heartland then it is a lose-lose scenario for India, its society and its civilization. De-partition must start only after Indian leadership implements the same strategies that it adopted against Khalistani terrorism, to erase JK and NE terrorism. Any talks of de-partition before that happens will not be in Indian interests.

JMT.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby harbans » 25 Aug 2009 20:40

Best way to fight radical Islam: Make Unkil Dharmic. After seeing some video responses to Molly's U Tube video i think it's happening. :mrgreen:

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2009 20:58

I agree with RamaY.

Before trying to 'reform' our West, we need to 'reform' the Indian heartland.

Force is just one of the weapons in the armory of missionaries. Deceit, Bribery, Propaganda, Flattery, Division, Coercion, Wheels of 'Justice', there are many other weapons in the armory. The Indics have to learn how to use all of these tools, combine all of them in a syncretic way, and make effective use of them.

One has to remember that the Islamics are also humans, and they all have human weaknesses, human drives, and often similar aspirations. If they are humans, they are fallible.

In India the Indics have the majority. What is needed is a new moral framework for administering the medicine. I believe it is possible to both have this moral framework and to realize it while remaining within the confines of a democratic setup in India. What we need is determination. Even this determination can be achieved from within the present political situation. What we need is a huge dose of financing. With Indics getting richer, the agenda becomes all the more feasible.

Indics work best when they know that Dharma is on their side, their actions are sanctioned by the moral framework. The current moral framework of 'secularism' is less than satisfactory for the purpose. Therefore one needs a more active moral framework.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2009 21:05

harbans wrote:Best way to fight radical Islam: Make Unkil Dharmic. After seeing some video responses to Molly's U Tube video i think it's happening. :mrgreen:


Harbans ji,
Perhaps you should think on the lines of making one of the Free Churches in USA halaal. It is an experiment that has not been attempted before - to create a hybrid of Dharma and Christianity; where the preacher uses just as much arguments from the Bible as he does from the Vedas.

Back it up with money, and it could become the fastest spreading Krishtianity Missions in USA. Then make this Church destroy the Evanjehadi infrastructure in India, taking over their followers, before bringing them again into the Indic fold.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RamaY » 25 Aug 2009 22:59

Thankyou RajeshA-ji,

Like dear-RM says AWMTA :D

Khalistan-terrorism was uprooted with a single-minded determination; terrorism and lawlessness were not tolerated in the name of religion - Indic or otherwise. No discussion was allowed in public/media/political space. All anti-national ideologies and tendencies were destroyed physically. Only such approach will keep this nation united. Somehow the political and military leadership show unwarranted lenience toward JK and NE terrorism for various reasons, and it is dangerous.

De-partition will not be worthwhile without removing this permissive approach toward religious intolerance in heartland.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2009 23:12

Have we considered if the real Hindutva party is the INC which has left-liberal image for the West? I mean what progress have the IM made with the INC at the helm? In fact they get more Islam.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2009 23:12

The Determination needed may be similar to that in the case of Khalistan, however there is a difference.

Khalistanis were secessionists. Islamists, except in the case of J&K, are not secessionists, even though they are subverting the system to expand a counter-Indic ideological space, using the freedoms accorded by the system itself. This attrition and erosion needs to stop. However, I do not believe violence has to be the tool of choice or preference.

Bribery and flattery for the willing munafiqs and coercion against the aggressive protesters should be used. Those Islamists who try to use violence and intimidation to stop the buy-out of the munafiqs should be threatened with the loss of land and their control over their mosques and madrassas.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 25 Aug 2009 23:26

ramana wrote
Have we considered if the real Hindutva party is the INC which has left-liberal image for the West? I mean what progress have the IM made with the INC at the helm? In fact they get more Islam.


Left-wing hindutva perhaps? Driven by frustration in the failure to mobilize the "Muslim" and deep fear of "Muslim" as an alien?

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RamaY » 25 Aug 2009 23:46

RajeshA wrote:...

Islamists, except in the case of J&K, are not secessionists, even though they are subverting the system to expand a counter-Indic ideological space, using the freedoms accorded by the system itself. This attrition and erosion needs to stop. However, I do not believe violence has to be the tool of choice or preference.

Bribery and flattery for the willing munafiqs and coercion against the aggressive protesters should be used. Those Islamists who try to use violence and intimidation to stop the buy-out of the munafiqs should be threatened with the loss of land and their control over their mosques and madrassas.


Agreed. But clearing the rot in JK solves many problems and dilemmas in IM-consciousness. Same goes with NE and EJs to maximum extent.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2009 00:00

RajeshA wrote:Bribery and flattery for the willing munafiqs and coercion against the aggressive protesters should be used. Those Islamists who try to use violence and intimidation to stop the buy-out of the munafiqs should be threatened with the loss of land and their control over their mosques and madrassas.


One must not forget, that a Muslim cleric in a Indian-Ethos-compatible-legal-system would have only two choices - either to abide by all the restrictive laws on
  • ban on foreign donations
  • ban on violence and intimidation of those who want to explore 'reform' and 'freedom of spiritual quest'.
  • ban on preaching of violence
  • ban on violent protests following allegations of blasphemy and 'disrespect'
  • ithyadi....

or to pay the price of flouting such laws and
  • getting strict sentencing for preaching violence, with no access to 'alleged source material' (Qu'ran, etc....)
  • hefty fines
  • loss of property
  • loss of control over mosques and madrassas which can be transferred to some other group preaching Islam in consonance with Indian Ethos

or in case of taking up armed struggle against the State
  • violent death +
  • ostracization of family
  • loss of property

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2009 00:02

RamaY wrote:Agreed. But clearing the rot in JK solves many problems and dilemmas in IM-consciousness. Same goes with NE and EJs to maximum extent.


The rot in J&K can only be changed through a complete break up of Pakistan plus a demographic change in the Valley. The IM-consciousness, IMHO, is a different problem and can only be changed by a change in India's formal ethical posture.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Prem » 26 Aug 2009 00:57

Aint ethical dilemma discussion against BR Policy?
Its the same ethical dimention to my anger against 47 generation Muslims who laid the foundation of Pakistan as well created the infrastructure of hatred in what is now in Land of Pure that gets me or Sanjay a warning. Gandhi also gave the similar advise to Bengali Hindus men and women to die or get raped without protest as such deeds are natural to Muslims. And gentle Pt Nehru telling Hindus and Sikhs of Punjab to live or rather survive under Islamic rule. How do u reconcile ethics and survival ( forget about flourishing) when facing medieval, inuman ideology with history of babarbarity?

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2009 02:46

Prem ji,
I think on BRF, it is considered inappropriate to 'go at' Muslims, i.e. call them names, ridicule them, mock them, threaten them or spread hatred against them, however it is deemed acceptable to criticize Muslims, Islamists, Islamics, Islamofascists, Islam-adherents, Mullahs, Ummahites, etc. if the criticism is packaged as 'objective' criticism or observations be it about their ideology, behavior, behavioral patterns, etc. as individuals or as collective.

Using some term other than Muslim also helps get away with using more severe words. :) . Many Indian idols (Presidents, Singers, Musicians, Sportspeople, Actors, Scientists) are simply referred as Muslims, while all those who get into ideological or political or religious discussions are called Islamists, etc... That is why it is better not to use 'Muslim' when one wants to bring out the big vocal guns.

Just some compromises one has to take for the political correctness in Internet.

JMVHO

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2009 03:13

Muslim = One who adheres to the religious tenets of Islam aka five pillars of Islam etc.
Islamist = One who adheres to the political tenets of Islam aka Shariat, Dhimmi status for people of book, Dar ul Islam and Dar ul harab.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Prem » 26 Aug 2009 03:42

So who partitioned India ,Islamists or Muslamans? AFAIK Islamist Deobandis were against the movement for islamist reasons. And and i was talking not about present Indian Muslims but the 47 generation active Jinnite Muslims who not only ditched India but made Pakistan a base to work on various mechanism for the destruction of India . How is this so bad or wrong in identifying the mortal enemy and wish to do same to them which they did and still dream to do to us.No war can be fought or battle won unless clear lines are drawn lest we want live or say just survive Ram Bharose. Jinnites escaped unscathed without paying the price while others in Sindh, bengal, Punjab etc became casualtiies of these schemers,loosing almost all. We still paying the price in form of terrorism from Bakistan, the very terrorism whose intellectual foundation is/was laid by these Jinnites who moved to Pakistan from Bihar and UP in 47.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 26 Aug 2009 04:35

People are born into Muslim families and are forced to learn the hatred of the non-Muslim by the special situation of the educational and ideological networks that binds the community. "Muslim" as identifier of a person born into an Islamic family should better be treated as neutral. When he or she displays the signs of his/her brainwashing at the hands of the Mullah that sees the only aim as conquest of all non-Muslims and Ghazwa and Jihad as "God's work", then it becomes a case of a pest - a dangerous pest to be hunted down and destroyed just as agricultural or domestic pests are controlled. Well modern bilogical control methods are also used in pest control, especially those that target multiplication capabilities - but human analogues would obviously be devious and decried by modern concepts of humanitarian "conflict".

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2009 04:42

Looks like neither. Its the British that partitioned the country!

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Prem » 26 Aug 2009 04:59

Ramana Sir,
British did what was in their interest and they cant escape the responsibility but no one can make sons to stab their own mother with joy unless something seriously, murderously wrong with the sons . Hundreds of years are enought to change even dumb animal, but take a look at the prognies of Jinnites , they remain same . 47 was a mistake on the scale of Prthviraj Chauhan.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby shaardula » 26 Aug 2009 08:52

not read all the posts and cannot reply at this moment. but i register my disapproval of some of the ideas here. my basic point is this. its a fool's task to try to reform islam. time and effort is better spent in restarting(already done), in sustaining the evolution within our sphere that had previously stalled. islam wants a binary solution. and a binary solution is what it will get. B, Rajesh, you are not going to teach multivalued algebra to islam. forget about it.

for us to survive in this situation, we have to ensure is that we dont develop a distaste for reality under the weight of all the easy on the ears, aka chaaruvaaka theories. chaaruvaaka theories of nehru, for example, had a place and a context.

acharya, i think it is futile and dishonest to search for some pure indic strain. what we are are what we are. product of our evolution. not even the shankaracharya of shringeri is indic. i assure you of that. go ahead not back. this searching for purity of past is itself a variant of what-would-jesus-do type of one-book thinking/world view.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby samuel » 26 Aug 2009 09:07

It is not possible to persist without knowing the past, for persistence by definition requires something to live on. But persistence is necessary for there to be some continuity in time. I am sorry Shardula, while there is immense merit in the argument that we need to pick up and move on, by what means do you suppose that is sufficient to persist as a civilization?

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2009 09:20

shaardula wrote:
acharya, i think it is futile and dishonest to search for some pure indic strain. what we are are what we are. product of our evolution. not even the shankaracharya of shringeri is indic. i assure you of that. go ahead not back. this searching for purity of past is itself a variant of what-would-jesus-do type of one-book thinking/world view.

I am not talking about pure at all. All the Vedic Scripture are the same from the past. Nothing new and what is present is also for the future.

There is a sense in your post that Hindus are trying to go back, are trying to purify etc. These terms are not relevant since India has kept the traditions. There are some people who are afraid to look the religion later in their life. They may feel uncomfortable.
Last edited by svinayak on 26 Aug 2009 21:05, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Prem » 26 Aug 2009 09:39

Samuel said Sikhs has shown the way .Blessed Gurus were able to gauge the threat and reinterpretated the Dharma in the context of Kalyugi adversary while keeping its essence. Every Yug has its Dharma and it cant be applied with same/one blind standard in all ages. The rules of warfare were applied bit differently in Mahabharta of Dwapar than in the Ramayan of Treta . Its Kalyug now, requiring kalyugi solution to age old problems. Basically , if its a game of survival then In India Indian ethos in various walk of society must survive , event at the cost Non indic imported doctrines. First , we have to be clear about the premise of threat/ apprehensions.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2009 09:59

Prem, Have you heard of Dr. Ernest Trumpp and the Adi Granth? After the Anglo-Sikh wars of the 1800s the British created a new dogma for the Sikhs to create situations where the Sikhs and Hindus don't get together. Thanks to Jinnah et. al. the Hindus and Muslims don't get together. Until we can erase all this fissures and understand the greater good of the Sub-continent is to not allow the others to define us there wont be ant future strategic or tactical.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby Prem » 26 Aug 2009 10:05

British perfidy is known . One of my friends grandfather was founder of Singh Sabha.British were even able to side line Baba Khem Singh Bedi, descendent of Guru Nanak. Indics need to get together, Non Indics will always work for the glory of all that is Non Indics.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2009 12:34

shaardula wrote:my basic point is this. its a fool's task to try to reform islam. time and effort is better spent in restarting(already done), in sustaining the evolution within our sphere that had previously stalled. islam wants a binary solution. and a binary solution is what it will get. B, Rajesh, you are not going to teach multivalued algebra to islam. forget about it.


Shaardula ji,

When I say, to 'reform Islam', it is meant as something different for the different constituencies. I am interested in a transitional stage of 'Islam' from where it becomes far easier to shift to Indic.

Islam has also used such a strategy. First the various 'sufis' are sent out to soften the Indic, and then come the Wahabbis to harden the former-Indic's Islam.

In an earlier post, I mentioned what I meant by the concept.

RajeshA wrote:My suggestion of a 'reformed Islam', an Indic Islam refers more to 'reformed something', an 'Indic something' called 'Islam' for marketing. It is a project for taking a square Islam Tile and chopping it to fit a round hole/space in the floor. All that does not fit will be chopped off. You hire an Indic 'Ulema'. They can be from some theater group, for all I care. And we start calling it Indic Islam. You pump the project with money, and try to get the munafiqs to cross over under State protection.

I am going into the mechanics of solving the Islam problem on the Indian Subcontinent, beyond just stating the problem. Any solution short of genocide would involve this step.

brihaspati
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 26 Aug 2009 16:13

shaardulaji,
where did I suggest reforming Islam? I had only speculated that "if" the Islamic dropped the two items of "proselytizing" and Jihadi extermination of all other cultures, then they could perhaps be allowed within a Bharatyia framework. I have been consistent critic of the theology of Islam itself, an have always urged focusing on destroying the theology, and the netowrks of theologians rather than targeting Muslim populations en-masse. And you have seen also perhaps that I equate Islamists with pests, to be hunted down and exterminated.

svinayak
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2009 21:00

Bji,
Can this be done on a mass scale


And again, without trying, someone leaves islamania for a Natural Tradition. Bauddha Dharma:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502170552 ... onies9.htm
QUOTE
Date:
31 Jan 2003
Time:
16:34:19
Comments

I was raised a Pakistani Muslim. Two things seemed to be around me while growing up: 1) We hated India and Hindus. 2) We loved cricket. My grandparents had immigrated to Pakistan from India in 1947, when Pakistan got it's freedom, but often spoke fondly of their life in India. This puzzled me me since in India they had to live with the devious hindus. I did my share of prayers without understanding a word and believing that we were the best and they were all evil and the worst. After college I came to graduate school in the United States and meet several Indian Hindus. I was shocked to find how nice they were and the fact that they accepted me as a person from their own part of the world. I did a lot of what the others on this site have mentioned; read modern philosophy, the Koran in english etc. etc. I realized that Islam was a mad man's creation to fulfil his own greed and lust. I have gave up Islam and decided not to follow any religion. I read Hindu philosophy and found it interesting but somewhat overwhelming and confusing. A few years ago I read Siddharta which lead me to examine Buddhism further. Two years ago I acknowledged to myself that I was a Buddhist. I feel more complete in myself and peaceful. No longer do I have any hatred for any living creature let alone a human being. RJ


RajeshA
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2009 21:30

Acharya wrote:Bji,
Can this be done on a mass scale
After college I came to graduate school in the United States and meet several Indian Hindus. I was shocked to find how nice they were and the fact that they accepted me as a person from their own part of the world.


I don't think one can get that many Pakis through College and that too in United States. :mrgreen:

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby svinayak » 26 Aug 2009 21:35

RajeshA wrote:
I don't think one can get that many Pakis through College and that too in United States. :mrgreen:

But we can get mass people of India inside Pakistan and show love to Pakis

brihaspati
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 27 Aug 2009 00:46

Very much possible - the hint is in the conditions existing in US - a state machinery that will not intevene in favour of fanatical Jihadis demanding decapitation of the "heretic", and in fact protect the "heretic". :mrgreen:

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 27 Aug 2009 01:16

The only way to make Pakis start loving Indians is if they all become gay. We need to invest some money and find out the "Gay Gene". Then we develop an anti-Polio vaccine tainted with the "Gay-Gene-Activation" mechanism. Then we send anti-Polio injections through the UN Anti-Polio Program to Pakistan and inject the vaccine to all nanha munha Pakistanis.

In 15 years all Pakistani lose their appetite for Jihad.

ramana
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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby ramana » 27 Aug 2009 02:06

There was this Chinese fantasy article that created a ministorm. Here is an IPCS article on that theme to analyse.

Beyond the Chinese fantasy: Will India Disintegrate?

And concludes no.

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby brihaspati » 27 Aug 2009 02:07

RajeshAji,
why the sudden turn? I thought you were even more stitha-pragnya than I ever could be? :)

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Re: Future strategic scenario for the Indian Subcontinent

Postby RajeshA » 27 Aug 2009 02:18

brihaspati ji,
BRF-Prowling has resulted in a Turbo-Chanakyan Syndrome in me. As I was already suffering from Science-Fiction-Buff Syndrome, there was some cross-pollination in the two parts of the brain, and the whole stitha-pragnya flew away like a butterfly!
Sir, please be careful. Don't let it get you! :wink:


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