Artillery Discussion Thread

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Dec 2011 18:04

The number of Pinaka Regiments in the IA, current and immediate induction, is really a heart-warming news. Along with older Grads, we now have 5+5+3 - GRAD/Pinaka/Smerch. We've added more rocket firepower in last couple of years than over last two decades. IIRC, the plan calls for inducting 2xPinaka Regiments per annum under the 12th Plan. I hope it comes true. Time to ensure that the Rocket Brigade of each Arty Division has 3/4xPinaka+2/1xSmerch. I would prefer 3+2 combination.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 09 Dec 2011 18:35

For the numbers challenged (and lazy

) what are the number of launchers per regiment rohit?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Dec 2011 18:37

18 in case of Pinaka and 12 in case of Smerch. 6 and 4 to a battery, respectively.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 09 Dec 2011 20:29

Thanks

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 09 Dec 2011 23:56

rohitvats wrote:The number of Pinaka Regiments in the IA, current and immediate induction, is really a heart-warming news. Along with older Grads, we now have 5+5+3 - GRAD/Pinaka/Smerch. We've added more rocket firepower in last couple of years than over last two decades. IIRC, the plan calls for inducting 2xPinaka Regiments per annum under the 12th Plan. I hope it comes true. Time to ensure that the Rocket Brigade of each Arty Division has 3/4xPinaka+2/1xSmerch. I would prefer 3+2 combination.

The original Plan was to induct 1 Pinaka regiment every year since 2000. this never happened due to unending tests and slow production rates, sometime back, OFB doubled the production and is now aiming for 5K rockets a year. Hence the target to induct 2 Regiments a year going forward. we still have not given up on our older Grads. an interesting development would be to mount rocket pods on tracked vehicles which can accompany the armoured columns!!!

In a couple of years we should start inducting Pinaka II with longer range and heavier destruction!!!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Dec 2011 00:20

Pinaka design looks quite modular compared to the monolithic tube of Smerch , with Pinaka the reload will be much faster specially if you have ready rounds available just load and fire, while for Smerch you will have to load each round in the tube again making it time consuming affair , Good Job there by DRDO.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 10 Dec 2011 00:46

Still its disheartening to see an exercise withOUT SPH or an array of modern howitzers

almost as much as watching lorried troops

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Dec 2011 01:55

Surya wrote:Still its disheartening to see an exercise withOUT SPH or an array of modern howitzers

almost as much as watching lorried troops

PS: By the way, aer you following the routine to atone for your sins or not?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Dec 2011 04:23

Any news on 6 Bofors units to be made by OFB for testing?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Dec 2011 06:54

There will not be any. I don't think there will be any duplication in the work of developing a 155 mm gun. Already DRDO and private players are developing the gun. The news items about bofors can be produced by OFB is all propaganda stuff to scuttle this indigenous effort.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Dec 2011 08:11

The OFB effort was at the tender stages as was posted on this thread it self. They were looking at companies with expertise in fabricating carriages for the 155MM sets.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Dec 2011 08:32

May be an attempt to revive those guns that are rendered useless after the Bofors scandal in need of spare parts, but surely not an attempt to make new guns. The DRDO+private players+OFB gun to be ready for trials in 2013 and hope it can be inducted by 2014. Also this need to be mass produced with 2000 or so guns in 5 years time with private players making around 200 guns and OFB another 200 per year to meet the target. Hope the 150 or so Grad launchers will all be replaced with the Pinaka and it's longer range rockets (whatever is the range above 40kms, be it 70 or 100. It must not be an issue that must halt the Pinaka. For it's small size and ease of use even 70km range if achieved by the new rockets is too much) and all the Smerch systems be replaced with Prahaar.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Dec 2011 16:05

Austin wrote:Pinaka design looks quite modular compared to the monolithic tube of Smerch , with Pinaka the reload will be much faster specially if you have ready rounds available just load and fire, while for Smerch you will have to load each round in the tube again making it time consuming affair , Good Job there by DRDO.

How are the Pinaka loaded? One rocket at a time or is the whole module of 6 changed. The system that the American MLRS system have is probably the best around.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2011 17:08

I like the way mlrs has a inbuilt telescoping arm and pulley system to pickup reload packs without depending on a special loader vehicle which pinaka or others need
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... s2-176.jpg

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 10 Dec 2011 17:23

rohitvats wrote:The number of Pinaka Regiments in the IA, current and immediate induction, is really a heart-warming news. Along with older Grads, we now have 5+5+3 - GRAD/Pinaka/Smerch. We've added more rocket firepower in last couple of years than over last two decades. IIRC, the plan calls for inducting 2xPinaka Regiments per annum under the 12th Plan. I hope it comes true. Time to ensure that the Rocket Brigade of each Arty Division has 3/4xPinaka+2/1xSmerch. I would prefer 3+2 combination.

Rohit,

IIRC, The original plan for Arty Divs called for one Bde each of Towed, SP and Rocket Regiments. In the current absence of SP Arty do we have one Bde less per Div? Are there as many as 4/5 Regiments in a Rocket Arty Bde?

PS: You can mail me!!

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 10 Dec 2011 18:23

IIRC, the whole module is changed, allowing for rapid turnarounds.

vic · Post by **vic** » 10 Dec 2011 18:32

I woould like to see Pinaka in Single Pod i.e. 6 rocket launcher (alongwith 12 rocket launchers) on 4x4 for mountain/rough regions to increase the availiblity of Pinaka for these difficult to access areas. Something like US - HIMARS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIMARS

vic · Post by **vic** » 10 Dec 2011 18:40

rohitvats wrote:The number of Pinaka Regiments in the IA, current and immediate induction, is really a heart-warming news. Along with older Grads, we now have 5+5+3 - GRAD/Pinaka/Smerch. We've added more rocket firepower in last couple of years than over last two decades. IIRC, the plan calls for inducting 2xPinaka Regiments per annum under the 12th Plan. I hope it comes true. Time to ensure that the Rocket Brigade of each Arty Division has 3/4xPinaka+2/1xSmerch. I would prefer 3+2 combination.

I thought that we had ordered 38 smerch launchers followed by 24 (or was it 36+18?)??

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2011 18:48

it is 38+24 = 62 launchers per this link
http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3038

ie. 5 'batteries' of 12 each.

obviously we need to speed up pinaka induction and make sure every division has its share, with some central gorilla units like indep arty brigades and arty divisions having a massive concentration for intimidation ops.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Dec 2011 19:20

vaibhav.n wrote:
Rohit,

IIRC, The original plan for Arty Divs called for one Bde each of Towed, SP and Rocket Regiments. In the current absence of SP Arty do we have one Bde less per Div? Are there as many as 4/5 Regiments in a Rocket Arty Bde?

PS: You can mail me!!

You have mail.

Leo.Davidson · Post by **Leo.Davidson** » 10 Dec 2011 21:35

The Pinaka 's calibre is similar to the BM-27. Why is the Pinaka 2x6 instead of 2x8?

vic · Post by **vic** » 11 Dec 2011 09:36

from DFI forum:-

No shortage of artillery guns: Antony

New Delhi, Nov 28 (IANS) Defence Minister A.K. Antony Monday informed the Lok Sabha that ..................

The defence minister said India had obtained the technologies for the Bofors guns transferred to the ordnance factories.

‘Though further dealing with AB Bofors was suspended, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has been manufacturing the major components of the gun, such as barrel, breach mechanism, muzzle break, loading trough, recoil system along with the elevating and traversing cylinders, and supplying to the army as spares,’ he said.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Dec 2011 10:07

Deleted comment.

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 11 Dec 2011 13:32

uddu wrote:Beware of DFI. Seem to be a Pakistani website utilizing Indian name. The Admin is same as that of indiandefence

Lol!! Who fed you that?

You may want to ask Brig Ray who has met one of the admins in person TWICE!!
I use his name as there is no better name to prove credibility and also Ray sir is a moderator on that forum as well.

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 11 Dec 2011 13:49

rohitvats wrote:
vaibhav.n wrote:
Rohit,

IIRC, The original plan for Arty Divs called for one Bde each of Towed, SP and Rocket Regiments. In the current absence of SP Arty do we have one Bde less per Div? Are there as many as 4/5 Regiments in a Rocket Arty Bde?

PS: You can mail me!!
You have mail.

Thanks!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Dec 2011 13:50

^^^

There was a discussion on the forum about the Indianness of the said forum. It will still be around, please look at it.

James B · Post by **James B** » 11 Dec 2011 14:59

Pratyush wrote:^^^

There was a discussion on the forum about the Indianness of the said forum. It will still be around, please look at it.

sorry for OT. DFI (www.defenceforumindia.com) is different from fake indian forum (indiandefence.com). Please don't confuse yourselves and others. Last post from me on this.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Dec 2011 15:31

ok Sorry there was a confusion. Thanks James.
It was http://ww.indiandefence.com/forums/ that was the fake forum.

The discussion of which was held here http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... &start=440

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Dec 2011 07:29

^^Delete the link. Only serves to improve their page rank and increase hits.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 14 Dec 2011 23:33

Defence ministry probing leakage of field trials report on ultra-light howitzers.

An inquiry has been ordered by the ministry of defence into the reported leakage of a report that concerns the field trials of M-777 ultra-light howitzers, government told the Lok Sabha today.

Through a written response, defence minister AK Antony said, "four pages of draft field trial report were received in an anonymous envelope by the army headquarters. An inquiry in the matter is underway." Noting that the field evaluation trial report of the guns was a confidential document, he said "detailed instructions exist about the security of classified documents. Aberrations, if any, are dealt with as per the relevant rules."

Ultra-light Howitzer is amongst the equipment that is included in the Artillery Profile 2027 prepared by the artillery directorate of the Indian Army, he said.

Replying to a question on procurement of these guns on single source basis, he said "the procurement on single vendor basis from ST Kinetics, Singapore is sub-judice. The option of procuring the equipment through US government (FMS route) is also being pursued."

On field evaluation of M-777 guns, he said "the field evaluation of ultra-light howitzer comprises three parts i.e. user trials, DGQA trials and maintainability trials." Out of these, only user trials of the gun proposed to be procured through US government have been completed, he said.The performance of the gun can be ascertained only after evaluation of all three trial reports, Antony said.

vic · Post by **vic** » 17 Dec 2011 12:55

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/9a52_4.htm
9A52-4 Tornado

It is lighter version of Smerch, I think that we should modify our Pinaka also to get something like this!

vic · Post by **vic** » 30 Dec 2011 10:09

Indigenous 155 gun, so quicckly??

http://business.bhaskar.com/article/ind ... tml?HF-12=

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Dec 2011 14:09

^^ Is this for real??

रक्षा मंत्रालय और आयुध निर्माण बोर्ड के बीत तमाम रिसर्च और प्रोयग के बाद ऐसी 414 तोप बनाने को लेकर सहमति हो गई है।

The article says that MoD has agreed to purchase 414 pieces of this arty from OFB Kanpur!!! Some one pinch me since this seems to be one of my wet dreams

इस देसी बोफोर्स तोप का नाम पी-1(55) रखा गया है।

Says it has been named P-1(55)

यह गन एक मिनट में आठ राउंड फायर कर सकती है इसे किसी भी मोर्चे पर आसानी से तैनात किया जा सकता है। इसका 155 एमएम का गोला तीस किलोमीटर तक निशाना लगाने में सक्षम है जिसकी रेंज 40 किलोमीटर तक बढ़ाई जा सकती है।

Says 8 rounds/min firing rate and range of 30 K.M which can be upgunned to 40.

इस तोप की खास बात यह है कि इसका एक भी पुर्जा आयात नहीं किया गया है सारे पुर्जे देश में ही बनाए गए हैं।

Every nut and bolt of this gun is local and nothing imported!!

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Dec 2011 15:51

Chacko sir,
Could you please try and confirm the above news article???
It

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2011 16:17

Mashallah what a new year gift. a member has a comment in the thread link you posted
you know how the quest for making every spare for bofor by ourselves begin?
the drawings of the spares provided to ofb for making spares at home were faulty, they were distorted, it lead to huge losses and trouble operating bofor gun. spares for it were imported even though it was breach of contract.
all fault lies on bofors.
then only ofb was ordered to analyse and make each and every spare on their own.
this comes from former director of ofb i met

the uber-tfta archer has these specs:
The howitzer has a continuous fire rate of 75 rounds an hour, an intensive fire rate of 20 rounds (i.e. a full magazine) in 2.5 minutes, and a salvo fire rate of three rounds in 15 seconds. The MRSI capability, multiple round simultaneous impact, is up to six rounds. Direct-sighting can be used for target ranges up to 2,000m.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2011 16:24

looks like we finally cloned the bofors and it will look like this (45 cal)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/at ... 1156932453

should atleast take care of our towed needs.

the endless trials could even have been a GOI ploy to learn as much as possible and prepare the ground for entry of this wildcard later

hopefully we will soon hear of a version mounted on a Tatra chassis clicked by a tbhp member holidaying near jodhpur

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 Dec 2011 16:27

Is this the 155 mm Gun from OFB

METAMORPHOSIS 155 mm GUN
http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wlc/4.htm

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Dec 2011 16:29

the one I posted is a fh77b but barrel changed to 45cal - the 39cal has a different tip...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Dec 2011 17:45

Austin wrote:Is this the 155 mm Gun from OFB

METAMORPHOSIS 155 mm GUN
http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wlc/4.htm

That is the upgunned M-46 with 155/39 Caliber. Kits and tech from Soltam.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 30 Dec 2011 18:05

Austin, the Metamorphosis is the Soltam upgrade for the 130mm M46 to 155/45cal standard. 180 already converted and further 250 supposed to be upgunned as well.

Singha, the 45 cal conversion of the fh77b/39cal was always on the cards but it is not known how many have actually been converted since it ran into rough weather in 2009.

Regarding the new indigenous 155mm gun for OFB Kanpur. There isn't much info from the DB article to have an informed opinion on this. Aroor, Shukla or TSS or maybe even Vishnu - journos who know the defence stuff better than the regular DDM - should cover this story. We might get a more clarity on this gun. Till then I will hold on to my lungi tightly!

Some food for thought, the dainik bhaskar hindi edition was the first one to report the existence of aridaman