Indian Army Discussion

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 19 Mar 2009 03:50

Old Thread here.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 33#p637733

please, this is for current events, happenings and discussions.

if anyone wishes to write papers on "what is wrong with the Indian Army" - then I invite them to do just that for SRR / BRM and get it reviewed - but not here.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 19 Mar 2009 04:55

Nod for creation of Major General's post in RVC

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2009 05:10

JaiS wrote:Nod for creation of Major General's post in RVC

Looks odd that the Home Minster is announcing the decision. And is IA going back to horses that it needs a new Maj Gen? Or is it to support the mtn corps?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 19 Mar 2009 05:28

ramana wrote:
JaiS wrote:Nod for creation of Major General's post in RVC
And is IA going back to horses that it needs a new Maj Gen? Or is it to support the mtn corps?

Horses for sports. Dogs for Ops, Mule transport for the Mtn Div Units at the very least.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Mar 2009 07:35

Horses are required for the PBG, NDA, IMA and OTA for equestrian training for Cadets.

Mules for the ferrying of loads in the mountains, both in the West and the East frontiers.

Dogs are for patrolling, IED sniffing, tracking, guard etc

It appears that there could be a larger requirement for the latter two categories.

Though it is odd that the Home Minister should announce this!

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 19 Mar 2009 07:44

Are Camels used by only BSF?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 19 Mar 2009 10:04

The BSF's camel corps is famous! I dont think the army uses them at all.

Meanwhile, the Home Minister making the announcement is no big deal. Government updates are often announced by cabinet members, such as PC, and Pranob Mukerjee. Just announcements from the Appointments Committee, Cabinet Decisions, etc.

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 19 Mar 2009 15:13

Horses are not only used for sports and training of cadets and officers (at the ACC&S, ASC Centre and College and RVC College and Centre) but also for operational roles in controlling animal transport and pack artillery and carrying messages. Mules are used also to carry pack artillery which is a specialised task and requires a different kind of animal from the normal GS mule. Earlier they were with the Regt of Arty but in 1974 this job devolved on the ASC.

At varying periods of time the IA had 2-3 camel mounted infantry battalions and one camel mounted light mortar (120mm) battery. Camel troops performed well during both 1965 and 1971. However the camels never had a lobby in the sense that the horses did. I mean what can one do with a camel ? Horses can be used for riding, sports and above all polo. Therefore horses always had a strong lobby of Generals and other officers backing them up.

The lack of corporate support meant that the camels were phased out in 1975 after the Govt refused to extend the organisation of the units.Later in the beginning of this century the need for troops based on camels was felt again for holding gaps, operating in soft sandy areas, recce and stay-behind parties. Consequently 13 Grenadiers (the original camel unit descended from the Bikaner State Forces) and 25 Rajput were put to train on camels in anticipation of govt sanction. That was not forthcoming however and the idea was dropped.

PC probably made the announcement in the capacity of spokesman for the Cabinet.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Mar 2009 20:06

To add to what Mandeep said: The 13th Grenadier was known as Ganga Jaisalmer Risala. It was formed by amalgamation of Ganga Risala (Bikaner Camel Corps;raised by Maharaja Ganga Singh) and Jaisalmer Risala.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Mar 2009 23:24

13 GRENADIERS is now an infantry unit!

However, they have a Brass Band, a legacy of the past, while Infantry units have Pipes and Drums.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 19 Mar 2009 23:33

X-posting from Psy ops and Media watch thread
Indian Army = Immoral, fake encountering, lying, ransacking, violative, convicted, torturous, massacring, killer, notorious, faulty and occupationary force

No i did not write that...Soumitro Das did. I only quoted the words he uses.

RayC (& Others):
If you have any opinion on the article & have some thing to say, then please do so, but not just here. Send it to HT and please ask your other army brethren to do the same. This kind of propaganda must not be allowed to go unanswered.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Mar 2009 23:48

AdityaM wrote:X-posting from Psy ops and Media watch thread
Indian Army = Immoral, fake encountering, lying, ransacking, violative, convicted, torturous, massacring, killer, notorious, faulty and occupationary force

No i did not write that...Soumitro Das did. I only quoted the words he uses.

RayC (& Others):
If you have any opinion on the article & have some thing to say, then please do so, but not just here. Send it to HT and please ask your other army brethren to do the same. This kind of propaganda must not be allowed to go unanswered.

I would have. But it would be only a gift to the Govt Treasury of Rs 5 for the postage!!

I have tried to kick that idiot Ashok Mitra or whatever that ass' name, but it is never published.

Here, I can rectify the wrongs as I see it and many read the BR beyond the membership!

I am aware that you did not write the piece, but some Commie called Soumitra Das!

Can one stop if someone has diarrhoea, by waving a Guard's red flag? It can stop a mighty train, but not diarrhoea. The Communists and their camp followers are but that!

I regret to have been so illustrative, but I have a pathological dislike for those who disrupt society and plain living through goon power!

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 20 Mar 2009 00:58

Correct, 13 Grenadiers are indeed a plains infantry battalion now. All infantry battalions had brass bands earlier till it became too expensive to maintain them. However 13 Grenadiers which had a major ceremonial role till 1975 have still been able to maintain their's.

The Bikaner Ganga Risala had a distinguished war record serving in both World Wars and many of the colonial battles that the British fought. The Jaisalmer Risala contrary to common belief was not a unit of the State Forces but was a part of what were called Defence Battalions raised in 1948 to defend the border with Pakistan against raids by irregulars and tribals.

17 Grenadiers also served as a camel mounted infantry battalion from its raising in 1966 till 1975. Other units which had stints in the same role were 7 (ex-Kutch State Forces) and 8 Grenadiers.

The amalgamated Ganga Jaisalmer Risala was initially, logically offered to the Armoured Corps.The cavalrymen turned up their noses at the thought of camels. The Grenadiers who had a shortage of units and recruiting heavily from Rajasthan were then allotted the battalion.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 20 Mar 2009 01:14

RayC wrote:
AdityaM wrote:X-posting from Psy ops and Media watch thread
Indian Army = Immoral, fake encountering, lying, ransacking, violative, convicted, torturous, massacring, killer, notorious, faulty and occupationary force

No i did not write that...Soumitro Das did. I only quoted the words he uses.

RayC (& Others):
If you have any opinion on the article & have some thing to say, then please do so, but not just here. Send it to HT and please ask your other army brethren to do the same. This kind of propaganda must not be allowed to go unanswered.
Can one stop if someone has diarrhoea, by waving a Guard's red flag? It can stop a mighty train, but not diarrhoea. The Communists and their camp followers are but that!

I regret to have been so illustrative, but I have a pathological dislike for those who disrupt society and plain living through goon power!

HT doesn't allow comments on its articles but it does ask people to 'rate' them. Let's start by giving Soumitra Das lowest rating (1/5), it just takes a click.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 20 Mar 2009 02:52

Did that already. Darn the lowest is one!!

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 20 Mar 2009 05:06

Army trying to 'meet requirements' of expanded NSG

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 20 Mar 2009 08:31

NSG command tiff

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090320/j ... 697251.jsp

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 20 Mar 2009 11:59

There are very few police officers who are qualified or experienced enough to command the NSG.Those that are have never been posted to the force.There's also a reluctance on the part of junior IPS officers of say the rank of SP to be posted there. They'd much rather serve in the districts. Its only much later at higher ranks where there are fewer opportunities to get charge of Zones or States given that all IPS officers without exception rise to these heights, that they prefer to go on deputation to the NSG.

Unfortunately in the past the NSG became the dumping ground for all the failures as Police Commissioner of Delhi with the possible exception of Ved Marwah. What contribution these gentlemen made to the force can be gauged by the extent of failures to equip and train the NSG. Failures that became glaringly obvious in the wake of 26/11. We also had as DG, Jyoti Dutt who spent a lifetime as investigator with the CBI. He had to be compensated for not being appointed as that body's Director after his posting was announced. Hey presto ! a parking slot was found for him in the best traditions of the IPS.Never mind that he was unable to understand the needs of the job and the force he commanded throughout his tenure.But then thats the way of our dearly beloved thoroughly generalist IPS for whom specialisation and indeed competence are not qualities worth attaining.

One wishes the best of luck to the new incumbent.For experience he's had two tenures in the BSF and therefore we presume that he's familiar in some rudimentary way with tactics and weapons. One also hopes that he's able to win the confidence of the cutting-edge his force, the Army element.He was after all involved heavily in the whitewash and even justification of the infamous Colonel-bashing episode of October 1992 in Chandigarh which nearly led to an Army-Police confrontation.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Mar 2009 13:46

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Mar 2009 21:07

The CO chuckled and told my pal,"that he truly felt sorry for those poor PLA boys",as large numbers of them who innocently strayed across the line and in some cases were even brought over the line,"under protest" ,had to indulge in some "rogering"...you know,"social intercourse" ,which kept our boys and their personal equipment in fine fettle! Ever since then,Chinese patrols have been of platoon strength!

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 20 Mar 2009 21:31

Phillip,
Reminds me of this Star Trek Episode title!

"Where No One Has Gone Before"

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 21 Mar 2009 00:07

Philip wrote:I heard this glorious tale recently,and was assured that it came from the horses' mouth,namely the CO at the time.The Chinese would be loath to admit it for obvious reasons.It was somewhere on the Indo-Chinese border,after '62,nearer to '71 I'm told,probably one reason why the Chinese are so wary of our boys these days! ... The Chinese soldiers used to patrol the border in pairs. The CO chuckled and told my pal,"that he truly felt sorry for those poor PLA boys",as large numbers of them who innocently strayed across the line and in some cases were even brought over the line,"under protest" ,had to indulge in some "rogering"...you know,"social intercourse" ,which kept our boys and their personal equipment in fine fettle! Ever since then,Chinese patrols have been of platoon strength!

I have heard the same story, except this time it was in Kashmir. I am not sure what to make of your post from its nudge-nudge-wink-wink attitude. The story I heard was homosexual rape, and as far as I can understand, that's what your post talks about too.

Whats 'glorious' about it? Please enlighten..

If I remember correctly, you were howling about the Abuses in Abu Gahreib, how is this different from that?

How is it different from what Nachiketa had to go through?

IMO, it just shows poor discipline, frustrated sexuality and lack of knowledge about rules of war.

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 21 Mar 2009 01:23

An apocryphal story at best !

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2009 01:55

Mandeep are there any estimates of how many troops did TSP shift from the Wstern borders after Mumbai attack?

Philip, please delete the useless story. Its repgunant. All those who replied, please self delete.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 21 Mar 2009 03:30

sudeepj wrote:How is it different from what Nachiketa had to go through?

What did nachiketa undergo in captivity? I thought he was under ICRC care

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2009 04:33

soldiers, and other overtly masculine groups frequently joke about homosexual rape or other sexual humiliation, but given that (outside of pakistan and arabia) less than 1% of men actually tend to be homosexual, the chances of chinese soldiers being kidnapped to be butt-raped is somewhat far fetched

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 21 Mar 2009 05:35

Army to undertake Blue Waters Expedition in Lakshadweep Islands

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 21 Mar 2009 11:42

My information is that only 14 Div was moved from the Dir-Bajaur area back to their KLP. There they were held in readiness for an offensive to take back the Swat valley from TTP control which never came. We know the reasons for that. This was posted on Orbat.Com at the time.
Earlier 23 and 17 Divs moved back from Swat to their KLPs from Swat before 26/11 to be replaced by 37 Div.

IMHO one of the main aims of the Mumbai attacks was to create a situation whereby the PA was forced to pull out troops from the Western border to counter projected Indian moves. Just shows how little the PA knows about Indian planning and strategic aims.

Mandeep · Post by **Mandeep** » 21 Mar 2009 11:47

The ICRC doesn't take charge of PsOW. In any case the Pakis boasted to the world how he was 'enjoying Islamic hospitality' !

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 21 Mar 2009 17:15

(unsure if this is the right thread for this news):

Pak troops fire at Indian posts in Uri; soldier injured

Pakistani troops fired throughout the night at Indian posts in Uri sector of Jammu and Kashmir, leaving a soldier injured.

A defence spokesman said on Saturday that Pakistani troops fired between 1500 to 2000 rounds at the Indian posts in Kamalkote area of Uri sector between 10 pm on Friday night and 3 am on Saturday morning. Lance Naik Prakash Singh of 10 JAK rifles was injured in the firing.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 21 Mar 2009 20:15

SAF, Indian army exercise

Indian Army set for ‘mission conservation’ in Lakshadweep

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Mar 2009 21:39

AdityaM wrote:(unsure if this is the right thread for this news):

Pak troops fire at Indian posts in Uri; soldier injured
Pakistani troops fired throughout the night at Indian posts in Uri sector of Jammu and Kashmir, leaving a soldier injured.

A defence spokesman said on Saturday that Pakistani troops fired between 1500 to 2000 rounds at the Indian posts in Kamalkote area of Uri sector between 10 pm on Friday night and 3 am on Saturday morning. Lance Naik Prakash Singh of 10 JAK rifles was injured in the firing.

Thankfully, the IA replied in kind this time around unlike earleir where the spokesperson used to "proudly" talk about the restraint shown...

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Mar 2009 21:41

Armymen indicted in J&K firing

Srinagar: A Junior Commissioned Officer and two soldiers were on Friday indicted for “various lapses” in connection with a firing incident at Bomai in Sopore on February 21, in which two youths were killed. An Army court of inquiry headed by a brigadier held the three belonging to 22 Rashtriya Rifles accountable for “various lapses,” a defence spokesman said. Disciplinary action had been ordered.

Mohammad Amin Tantray and Javid Ahmad were killed and Firdous Ahmed was injured in the firing, sparking massive protests demanding the shifting of the Army camp from the town.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Mar 2009 23:27

Will admins please delete this nonsense triggered off by Philips post

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 Mar 2009 22:00

Army's first expedition in Lakshadweep launched

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 22 Mar 2009 23:02

JaiS wrote:SAF, Indian army exercise..........

don't ask me for source or link,

it should be known that singapore military is "thouroghly" infiltrated by the chinese, i have met the chinese ex-military electronics engineers working in singapore research institute and they have clearly boasted about it after having a good dose of high quality rice wine.

the mainland chinese "engineers" were working here

that particular group was working on "image processing" algorithms and were in the process of deciding which FPGA to use, and were picking my brains for pointers on chips and algorithms to meet an "urgent' deadline.

so the singaporeans coming to india for "joint" military excersice will surely teach the chinese about doctrines, tactics, equipment, etc

remember, singapore is even paying for such military excersices.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 Mar 2009 23:10

Army looks within for terror

The army has widened and deepened an internal investigation to find out if Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Srikant Purohit, the officer arrested on a terror charge in the Malegaon blast case, was linked to a network that was tapping more recruits from a particular linguistic and suspected casteist group within the soldiery.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Mar 2009 01:13

Indian Women Army Cadets celebrate at passing-out parade at Officers Training Academy in Chennai on Saturday. (PTI)

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 23 Mar 2009 04:38

Major, 4 jawans killed

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 23 Mar 2009 09:02

It seems counter insurgency forces need a massive firepower and tech upgrade. The new breed of rats coming from pukistan are lot better trained and equipped than before. At least a couple of highly trained and properly equipped 'ghatak' platoon per battalion for actual hunt while rest would provide security perimeter, indirect fire support and logistics type of system may work and be affordable.