Indian Naval Discussion

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jun 2009 21:35

^^^
ok, that's enough.
------------

now back to some news.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 617955.cms

India releases $102 mn more for Gorshkov

NEW DELHI: India has given an additional $102 million to Russia for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov ahead of fresh negotiations before July
end between the two countries on the final purchase price of the warship, a senior official said on Thursday.
An Indian team was in Russia last week to break the deadlock over the cost escalation of the aircraft carrier.

"Gorshkov by far is the most problematic of the deals with Russia. But by July 15 we will work out the scope of trials and a firm cost based on which a fresh contract will be signed. We are insisting and hopeful that the platform will be delivered by the end of 2012," a senior defence ministry official said requesting anonymity.


With the latest installment of payment, India has paid nearly $602 million to Moscow so far for the refurbishment of the Gorshkov, an aircraft carrier which has not been seaworthy after 1988. According to the official, Gorshkov, currently undergoing refit at Sevmash shipyard in Russia, is floating and will be towed into the sea by the year en

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 04 Jun 2009 21:38

was this posted earlier ??

Image

http://living.oneindia.in/automobiles/a ... 40609.html

Indian Navy's fifth Landing Ship Tank (Large) 'Airavat' is on sail! Maria Teresa Mehta in Kolkata christened and launched Airavat, previously known as Yard 3016 on March 27 2006. It will now be commissioned as 'INS Airavat'.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby soutikghosh » 04 Jun 2009 22:17

rahulg wrote:INS Tipu , would be my choice.


That would be out as PNS got a ship named Tipu Sultan in their service.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Jun 2009 22:34

From Nightwatch, June 3, 09

India: Navy developments. Despite years of setbacks, India's program to design and build a nuclear submarine is finally gaining momentum. The Navy announced that 15 August is the date for beginning preliminary “in water” tests of India’s first indigenously-built nuclear submarine.

In a related development, a high-level delegation led by Defence Secretary Vijay Singh in Moscow announced that Russia has promised to deliver the AKULA-II class attack submarine 'K-152 Nerpa' to India on a 10-year lease by the end of this year. The 12,000 ton nuclear attack submarine is to be leased to the Indian Navy shortly after the commissioning this fall. India paid over $500 million for the lease.

With Russian technical assistance, India has already tested the pop-up mechanism for underwater ballistic missile launches. India also has experience operating submarine nuclear propulsion systems from an earlier lease of a Soviet CHARLIE-Class nuclear attack submarine.

Putting the pieces together, India is making substantial progress in developing an indigenously-built submarine-launched ballistic missile capability, as the third leg of a strategic nuclear triad – land, sea and air nuclear delivery systems. This is important for India, which has declared ‘no first-use’ nuclear doctrine and hence must have a ‘survivable and effective’ second-strike capability – submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missiles, aka, “boomers”.


The three Sagarika's in a tube is very advanced design. The beam of the ATV looks promising for future vehicles.

Bharat Karand turned out correct in his latest book.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Vasu » 04 Jun 2009 22:38

soutikghosh wrote:
rahulg wrote:INS Tipu , would be my choice.


That would be out as PNS got a ship named Tipu Sultan in their service.


Lets not let Tipu Sultan bear the ignominy of being trademarked by a country or concept he never heard of. His name should be rightly reclaimed by the INS/any Indian institution. let the Pakis go to town with Afghani marauders.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 04 Jun 2009 23:01

Bharat Karand turned out correct in his latest book.

What had he mentioned?

(Im currently reading his 2002 book and havent read the latest)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Jun 2009 23:12

Read the latest and give us feedback.

Thanks, ramana

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby anishns » 05 Jun 2009 04:02

How about INS Sudarshan?

After the famed 'Sudarshan Chakra'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarshana_Chakra

soutikghosh wrote:
rahulg wrote:INS Tipu , would be my choice.


That would be out as PNS got a ship named Tipu Sultan in their service.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 05 Jun 2009 05:40

Folks can get we get of this naming topic please?

India pays $102 million more for Russian aircraft carrier Gorshkov

This is called BANG for the buck.

India has given an additional $102 million to Russia for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov ahead of fresh negotiations before July end between the two countries on the final purchase price of the warship, a senior official said in New Delhi on Thursday.

An Indian team was in Russia last week to break the deadlock over the cost escalation of the aircraft carrier.

"Gorshkov by far is the most problematic of the deals with Russia. But by July 15 we will work out the scope of trials and a firm cost based on which a fresh contract will be signed. We are insisting and hopeful :?: that the platform will be delivered by the end of 2012," a senior defence ministry official said requesting anonymity.


According to the senior officials involved in the negotiations with Russia, the quoted price of the aircraft carrier has fluctuated between $2.2 billion and $2.9 billion and Moscow may come around to the lower price to accomodate New Delhi.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 05 Jun 2009 07:23

Please stop with the name choices and contribute to the discussion. Thank You.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 05 Jun 2009 13:03

Some details about the "Modular section" of the DCN SMX-24 which is being offered to the IN by France for the second line of sub production.

http://www.udt-europe.com/progsession2b.asp

2B.1 An Engineer’s Answer to an Operational Challenge: SMX-24’s Modular Section
E Regul, P Jacquelin, DCNS Ingenierie, France

In the attempt to break current standards and architectural prejudice, DCNS leads very innovative projects such as SMX-24. These projects help anticipate the future needs of navies, identify worthy architectural solutions and technologies to meet them, and improve designing methods and tools.

Unveiled in Euronaval 2008, SMX-24 is a heavy payload ocean-going SSK of 3450 tons based upon the leading concept of modularity. The missions of SMX-24 range from high capacity special operations to land attack and include of course the more classical missions for an ocean-going SSK of naval force attack and fleet protection which require heavy anti-surface and anti submarine warfare capabilities.

SMX-24 offers flexible features which make it possible to adapt the ship configuration to the mission she has to complete. According to the mission requirements, either mobility performances or combat system performances can be enhanced in the relevant fields thanks to appropriate modules.

A cross analyse of the nominal performances with regards to the missions has been undertaken in order to determine a choice of available modules which each enhance a given performance and the right combination of modules for each configuration or mission of the ship. This analyse will first be described in the paper.

Innovative architectural solutions had to be found to enable the high level of operational modularity which was requested. The modular features stand in four different regions of the ship. First, an entire section of the ship is dedicated to modularity and can hoist modules. Then modules can be bound to wing-shaped lateral structures. Finally, modular payload spaces are arranged under the casing and in the fin. A modular room within the pressure hull is dedicated to the connection and various equipments associated with the modules which require pressure storage.

The modular section in the centre of the ship is one of the most important innovation onboard SMX-24 and will be described more precisely in the paper. It was specifically designed to hoist large dimensions modules with a large panel of functions with as little physical constraints as possible and has to solve many technological challenges.

A number of modules which can be fitted into the modular section will be presented so as to illustrate how the design of the modular section and more generally of the ship meets the functional requirements of the modules and how the various architectural constraints are taken into account, hence drastically enhancing the ship operational capabilities.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby narayana » 05 Jun 2009 14:04

Found a Old Post on Problems with Groshkov

How The Admiral Gorshkov was sold

In Soviet Union money were spent generously too but all the aerocarriers of 1143 series built in Nikolaev proved to be bad. The Kiev, The Minsk and The Novorossiysk were sold abroad at the scrap metal price in the nineties. That deal looked queer, the price was too small but anyway the ships were of no good. The Gorshkov now is the headache for Sevmash and Indians. And the last ship of the series, The Admiral Kuznetzov (previously Riga, Leonid Brezhnev andTbilisi) is remaining in the Russian Navy being permanently repaired. Each event of its putting to the sea ends up with breakdown.

All the aerocarriers of the series 1143 have bad design of steam power plant that constantly breaks down. Other systems are not much better. Not without reason it is said at Sevmash that The Gorshkov must be turned inside out and then done anew. But where are they going to find in Russia good aerocarrier components?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 06 Jun 2009 18:41

Vice Admiral NK Verma designated as the next CNS

The Government has decided to appoint Vice Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma, PVSM,AVSM,ADC, presently Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief (FOC-in-C), Eastern Naval Command as the next Chief of the Naval Staff with effect from the afternoon of 31st August, 2009. The present Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, PVSM, AVSM, ADC retires from service on that day.

Born on 14 November 1950, Vice Admiral Verma was commissioned on 1 July 1970 into the Executive Branch of Indian Navy.

During his long and distinguished service spanning nearly 39 years, he has served in a variety of Command, Staff and Instructional appointments. Vice Admiral Verma’s Sea Command includes Leander class Frigate “Udaigiri”, Guided Missile Destroyer “Ranvir” and the Aircraft Carrier “Viraat”. Before taking over as FOC-in-C, Eastern Naval Command, he was Vice Chief of the Naval Staff at the Naval Headquarters.

Vice Admiral Verma is an alumnus of Royal Naval Staff College, UK and Naval War College, USA. He has instructional experience at National Defence College as Senior Directing Staff and at Defence Services Staff College, Wellington. He also commanded the Naval Academy at Goa.

Vice Admiral Verma was decorated with Param Vishist Seva Medal (PVSM) and Ati Vishist Seva Medal(AVSM). He is one of the Honorary ADCs of the Supreme Commander. He is married to Mrs. Madhulika and the couple has two sons.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 06 Jun 2009 20:14

What are the two strange housings behind ELTA radar on Beas? Additional covers for Barak? Haven't seen them on other Barak equipped ships. Or does it mean that Barak is not installed and they cover holes in superstructure?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/ ... asF371.jpg

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 07 Jun 2009 04:12

ramana wrote:From Nightwatch, June 3, 09

India: Navy developments. Despite years of setbacks, India's program to design and build a nuclear submarine is finally gaining momentum. The Navy announced that 15 August is the date for beginning preliminary “in water” tests of India’s first indigenously-built nuclear submarine.

In a related development, a high-level delegation led by Defence Secretary Vijay Singh in Moscow announced that Russia has promised to deliver the AKULA-II class attack submarine 'K-152 Nerpa' to India on a 10-year lease by the end of this year. The 12,000 ton nuclear attack submarine is to be leased to the Indian Navy shortly after the commissioning this fall. India paid over $500 million for the lease.

With Russian technical assistance, India has already tested the pop-up mechanism for underwater ballistic missile launches. India also has experience operating submarine nuclear propulsion systems from an earlier lease of a Soviet CHARLIE-Class nuclear attack submarine.

Putting the pieces together, India is making substantial progress in developing an indigenously-built submarine-launched ballistic missile capability, as the third leg of a strategic nuclear triad – land, sea and air nuclear delivery systems. This is important for India, which has declared ‘no first-use’ nuclear doctrine and hence must have a ‘survivable and effective’ second-strike capability – submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missiles, aka, “boomers”.


The three Sagarika's in a tube is very advanced design. The beam of the ATV looks promising for future vehicles.

Bharat Karand turned out correct in his latest book.

Yes I believe Bharat Karnad has been deeply involved in this aspect of Indian force development (recall was NSAB member). Also per SOP for obfuscation he also he doesn't let the cat out of the bag prematurely and lets people guess the real shape/size of Indian long range missiles.

The Aluka deal is for all practical purpose purchase by India.

A small anecdote:
    I live in an apartment that does not permit me to an assigned car park slot.

    As I go to get a sedan for my family, the car dealer gives me the option to buy outright a Honda Accord for Rs.20 Lakh, or pay 11 Lakh now on lease for next 10 years (half of design life) and after 10 years pay Rs 1 Lakh per year for another 10 years. As far as my neighbors are considered, I bought and own the Honda Accord, and my mother also thinks the same, so does my insurance agent. And I drive it aggressively on road as if there is no tomorrow. Yet as far as the housing society is concerned I do not own the car.
    As for giving my car to my son after 20 years, when petrol prices would have made this car an antique piece worth conserving in junkyard of Leningrad. I forego the option to clear the old beauty off my porch and let the car dealership haul away the junk when I am tired of driving the car after 15 years, as my son drives a more sophisticated Advanced Technology Vehicle .

Now did I hear India paid $500Million for 10 year lease of Akula?
Hummm .... .. . . . . that reminds me of Karnad's words spoken 2 years ago.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Jun 2009 05:15

SNaik wrote:What are the two strange housings behind ELTA radar on Beas? Additional covers for Barak? Haven't seen them on other Barak equipped ships. Or does it mean that Barak is not installed and they cover holes in superstructure?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/ ... asF371.jpg


Seems like recently upgrade ship.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2009 12:08

imo they are covers for the barak-1 vls hatches used perhaps in long transit cruises to reduce sea spray corrosion issues.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maz » 07 Jun 2009 21:39

ICG news

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/07/stories ... 170900.htm

12 more Do on order incl 5 for delivery before year's end. USCG also offers 12 twin engine helos on lease.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 07 Jun 2009 22:18

Singha wrote:imo they are covers for the barak-1 vls hatches used perhaps in long transit cruises to reduce sea spray corrosion issues.

is that a standard practice ? I've never heard of such a thing.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JaiS » 08 Jun 2009 05:26


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby jamwal » 09 Jun 2009 04:50

tsarkar wrote: Mayura was selected as the name for Andamans air base - given that peacocks hunt snakes. Indira Gandhi was invited to commission the base (or lay the foundation stone - cant remember). On learning the name, she wrote back that the peacock is a flightless bird that struts its feathers while mating and she will not commission a fighting base named after such a vain creature. Hence a new name was selected - INS Utkrosh


AFAIK, she vetoed the name because peacock is a flightless bird and therefore Mayur wouldn't have been suitable name for an airbase.
Tell me one specie which is not "vain" when it comes to searching for mates. Apart from that, peacock is our national bird. :)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gerard » 09 Jun 2009 05:52


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Jun 2009 06:02



Moreover, the entire project is going to be hit with a huge cost escalation, which will take total costs much beyond Rs 20,000 crore, because France is demanding virtually double the money to supply some critical equipment to MDL.


France has caught the Russian flu?

I am inclined to believe that we will see this with both the Rafale and the MiG-35.

35 for sure. India would be the ONLY bakara.

of course:

"Negotiations for these `MDL procured material packages', which include almost everything other than combat systems, have been underway for a year now. The French say costs have doubled since the contracts were inked in October 2005,'' said a source.


The India ink dries too fast.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby p_saggu » 09 Jun 2009 06:07

Somehow I am skeptical that this is really the outright loot that we think it is. Even the Russian price rises for the Gorshkov to me seem like there is more than that meets the eye.

WRT the Scorpene contract, more likely, like in the Nuke deal, one aspect of upgrading MDL's infrastructure was probably left unresolved, perhaps there were issues where aggreement was unable to have been reached - the initial negotiations on the scorpene did take a long long time.

The frenchies do take a big pound of flesh for their services they deliver, but once the contract is inked tight, they'll stick to their part of the deal. This one to me sounds like there were some loose ends left, which the frenchies are trying to capitalize on.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Jun 2009 06:16

Perhaps with ALL IN deals we can/should expect 4-6 years delays. And, of course, cost escalationS.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby viveks » 09 Jun 2009 09:33

people should consider suing. With the games...played..

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Debal » 09 Jun 2009 09:50

p_saggu wrote:Somehow I am skeptical that this is really the outright loot that we think it is. Even the Russian price rises for the Gorshkov to me seem like there is more than that meets the eye.

WRT the Scorpene contract, more likely, like in the Nuke deal, one aspect of upgrading MDL's infrastructure was probably left unresolved, perhaps there were issues where aggreement was unable to have been reached - the initial negotiations on the scorpene did take a long long time.

The frenchies do take a big pound of flesh for their services they deliver, but once the contract is inked tight, they'll stick to their part of the deal. This one to me sounds like there were some loose ends left, which the frenchies are trying to capitalize on.


Exactly, no body has caught any flu only the clever tricks done by MOD babus during contract signing for kickbacks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby pratik » 09 Jun 2009 11:22

What type of contracts MoD is preparing, which takes us in the mess?
I know there are mainly 2 types of contracts in international business. Fixed-Price & Time and Material.

Fixed price contract generally have penalty clauses, so if vendor donot deliver the agreed product within that time-frame, then they have to pay the penalty based on the length of delay. USD or EURO is generally used for the agreed price. In this type of contracts, there is no option for cost escalation.

Time and Material contract gives more flexibility to the vendor. They still have to give the indicative price +- 30%. And if at the end the cost is indicative price + 30% then they have to justify it with the reason. It gives small room for the cost escalation.

And for both the contracts, payment milestones generally are 30, 30, 30, 10.
30% on signing
30% on after vendor's internal testing completion, handing over the system to the user for testing
30% after successful testing by the user (Any bugs should be resolved by vendor without any cost)
10% successful usage during warranty period (120 days etc)(Any bugs should be resolved by vendor without any cost)


But i feel strange when i keep on reading the news that we have to pay extra cost for this hardware.
I am ready to provide my service FoC to MoD; if they wanted me to negotiate this type of contracts. I am used to perform such activities on regular basis without keeping any loophole for any kickbacks.

Jai Hind.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Jun 2009 13:38

Somehow I am skeptical that this is really the outright loot that we think it is. Even the Russian price rises for the Gorshkov to me seem like there is more than that meets the eye.

Could this be related to what one of our BR members, Jaladi was mentioning about France actually helping out with reactors fit into scorpenes in Phase II? Maybe the extra money will go towards that (similar to how a part of Gorky deal was used for the Akula "black funds")...
If thats not the case, hope that India learns its lessons on how everyone will take us for a ride and there are no permanent "friends", only national interests...

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby narayana » 09 Jun 2009 13:49

pratik wrote:What type of contracts MoD is preparing, which takes us in the mess?
I know there are mainly 2 types of contracts in international business. Fixed-Price & Time and Material.

But i feel strange when i keep on reading the news that we have to pay extra cost for this hardware.

Jai Hind.


Good Post,in any type of contract,i think they will add inflation and the conversion rates also as some buffer.


Just on lighter side
I am ready to provide my service FoC to MoD; if they wanted me to negotiate this type of contracts. I am used to perform such activities on regular basis without keeping any loophole for any kickbacks.


You have been reading a lot about Natasha's, ain't you ? :)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby parshuram » 09 Jun 2009 15:39

I would Like to add a few things here generally When contracts are signed for a long period of time , There are clauses for the cost escalation over the period say cost of steel if is $x per Ton now then of course a parity of $x + y would be added per year is always there . No good Business Counterpane will sign any project without this consideration

and both countries are experienced and mature enough to put such language on paper , read and understand it and then sign it .

what is driving me nuts is that not even then and when a single sub is made not even 10 % the cost has already doubled ... and this is our wrong doing of course ; i guess after we agreed to Kremlin demands, this was bound to happen ,, i guess this would become more common now in future expect same for C-130J's , P-8I's and the list is pretty long i am afraid :(

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2009 18:28

The IN appears to have bitten off more than it can chew as far as the conventional sub acquisition is concerned.A long time ago,Adm.Bhagwat had come out with a long term plan for th IN to acquire/build upto 24 conventional subs.He was booted out by Uncle George and what happened afterwards seems to be delay after delay in taking crucial decisons.The NDA ordered the Scorpene and then were booted out too.PC then threw his two bits in about the price being too high,the whole deal was renegotiated with further time lost and a higher price was agreed upon!

Now the very same deal is floundering.A fatal flaw which I mentioned at the time of signing was that all the subs would be built in India.This was a shock because we had hardly learnt how to "assemble" not build ,the German U-209/1500 U-boats,that too taking huge time to assemble just two,before the HDW scandal was upon us and MD and the IN lost all the hard earned expertise in sub building tech.thanks to Narasimha Rao and the "lost decade".What should've been agreed upon was for the first two to have been rapidly built in France ,while simultaneously the remaining four would be built in India,with the infrastructure set up.While the first two were being built,IN and MD teams could've observed how they were being built by DCN.The first two could've been ins ervice by now and evaluated against our other subs of German and Russian origin,giving us a better perspective of the merits and sortcomings of each type.

Now neither will the first Indian built subs arrive on time,but apart from the delay a huge extra sum is being demanded.All this time,the Russian Amur class has hit the water and the Brahmos team have along with Rubin designed a Brahmos AIP sub variant which was displayed more than two years ago.The "futuristic" stealthy AIP subs that the IN now want ,like DCN's SMX-24,are mere paper subs,concepts only.We have yet to experience a Scorpene and its capability.Russia has two Amurs in service.It would not be a bad idea to test one of them extensively so that to make up critical numbers we could acquire a few to replace the venerable Foxtrots still serving the IN manfully.A few new KIlos (with Brahmos) are another option too.If ordered immediately,with the Russian speed at sub building,we could have 3-4 commissioned by 2015.The speed with which Pak (wanting also to acquire the Greek U-214 that it is unwilling to accept from Germany)and China are building up their sub fleets will mean that very soon the IN will be outnumbered and outclassed in underwater warfare.One Akula and an ATV that will take one-two years of trials to be fully commissioned will not be enough when faced with the overwhelming numbers that we will have to deal with.Apart from pak and China,Malaysia has already got its first Scorpene from France,built there,and Indonesia is also wanting to expand its sub fleet, while Singapore has ambitious sub acquisition plans,Vietnam wants Kilos and Oz wants to acquire large ,long endurance conventional AIP subs for blue water duties.

The sooner the IN gets realistic,and augments its inventory soon,the better will our underwater warfare capabilities be.
Last edited by Philip on 09 Jun 2009 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby alexis » 09 Jun 2009 18:30

All contracts i have seen are fixed price only... No cost escalation on materials. The seller is supposed to hedge for the materials. But i dont know for very long term contracts.

What i dont understand is why dont India levy penalty for delays? Cost escalation is partly due to delays.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Jun 2009 19:34

Philip,

You are expecting too much from a country that has no strategic plan and seems to be proud of the chai-biscut as a strategy. MMS assembled a group, but these old guys hardly meet I guess. And, even if they meet what comes out of such meetings hardly filters down or has any meaning.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby p_saggu » 09 Jun 2009 19:34

Philip wrote:The sooner the IN gets realistic,and augments its inventory soon,the better will our underwater warfare capabilities be.

It was never about the IN getting realistic. It was always and still is about MOD getting more realistic. There is a cat and mouse game always on between MOD and the Finance ministry for funds, between MOD and the defense services over acquisitions for the forces, and between MOD, the services and DRDO for direct acquisition vs Indigenous production.

No one ever bothers it seems that ultimately India's security situation deteriorates. Only once the threat levels surpass a certain maximum, do the differences get resolved between these chaps.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupesh » 09 Jun 2009 21:55

Is there any shipyard other than MDL that can build submarines. Considering that we need to acquire 12-16 subs in the next 8-9 years we need some more shipyards with submarine building capability ( i assume the learning process will take atleast 3-4 years). MDL alone cannot fulfill our requirements as there is hardly any scope for expansion in MDL ( located in congested part of Mumbai ).

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby p_saggu » 09 Jun 2009 22:14

L&T is planning to come up with a BIg shipyard off chennai. There is also the Cochin shipyard which has been regularly churning out ships and India's undersea mining rigs.

There is also a 100,000 DWt capable privately owned ABG shipyards planned near Surat.
Garden REach is too small to diversify into subs. They have only space for two drydocks at a time for shipbuilding.

Goa shipyards has the potential to be enlarged. They have been building shipping trawlers and shall vessels for the navy and the coast guard for decades.

compare this with small nations like the Port of Dubai, Singapore and numerous small developed cities in our vicinity. Most of them have drydocks where ships upto 100,000DWT can be serviced / repaired / manufactured.

India still doesn't have EVEN ONE that can do this.

ramana
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jun 2009 01:55

From Pioneer, 10 June 2009

OPED | Wednesday, June 10, 2009 | Email | Print |


Modernising the Navy

Hiranmay Karlekar

It’s importance cannot be minimised

The massive exercise being conducted at the time of writing by the Indian Navy and the Coast Guard along the entire length of the western coast from Jakhau in Gujarat to Kanyakumari in Tamil Nadu, is aimed at further strengthening the country’s defences against unauthorised entry. While such exercises are held every year, the one this year has become specially significant because of the sea-borne terrorist attack on Mumbai in November last year. It might have been prevented but for chinks in the coastal defence set-up and a glaring lack of communication among the Navy, the Coast Guard, the Research & Analysis Wing, Mumbai Police and domestic intelligence agencies.

Understandably, there was sharp criticism of the country’s coastal security system and demand for prompt remedial action. Considerable progress has doubtless been made in this direction. Particularly important has been Defence Minister AK Antony’s announcement on February 28 of a new and comprehensive plan to ensure coastal security as a part of a restructuring exercise that put the Indian Navy in overall charge of the country’s maritime security and placed the Coast Guard, with all its assets, under it. The Director-General of the Coast Guard, the Minister stated, will be designated Commander Coastal Command and will be responsible for overall coordination between Central and State agencies in all matters pertaining to coastal security.

The plan envisioned the Coast Guard having its regional headquarters in Gujarat, headed by a Commander Coast Guard, to look after the surveillance of the State’s coast, a matter which has a special significance given the location of some of India’s major energy assets off its coast and the fact that it is the only State with a common maritime boundary with Pakistan. There will be nine additional Coast Guard stations at Karwar, Ratnagiri, Vadinar, Gopalpur, Minicoy, Androth, Karaikal, Hutbay and Nizampatnam.

The Navy, which will be assisted by State marine police establishments and Central and State intelligence agencies, will have a specialised force, Sagar Prahari Bal, with a personnel strength of 1,000 to protect its own installations along the eastern and western coasts and island territories like the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Eighty fast interception crafts will be procured to ensure seafront security.

Joint Operation Centres, manned by the Navy and the Coast Guard, will be set up in Mumbai, Kochi, Vishakhapatnam and Port Blair to ensure round-the-clock surveillance over India’s 7,500-km coastline. Mr Antony further said that there would be a national command, control, communications and intelligence network, linking the operations rooms of the Navy and the Coast Guard, both at the field and apex levels for real-time maritime domain awareness. It is a comprehensive scheme which includes the installation of Vessel and Air Traffic Management Systems for all offshore development areas and considerable increase in the number of ships, boats, aircraft and helicopters for surveillance and interception.

But while it is important to defend India’s coast and offshore assets, one needs to remember that there can also be terrorist attacks on the country’s merchant marine and also naval ships which, for example, could be targeted the way the US Navy’s vessel Cole was attacked. This, China’s growing presence in the Indian Ocean, and the Navy’s involvement in anti-piracy operations off the Somalian coast, once again underline the urgent need to make it a powerful blue water force capable of coping with its expanding task.

This will require both funds, political will and public support. Unfortunately, public awareness of the Navy’s importance is relatively low. This is because it has virtually no presence on land and its role in the country’s wars has been none or minimal except during the 1971 India-Bangladesh conflict. Nor does it play the kind of role the Army plays in counter-terror and counter-insurgency operations. People need to know more. In this context, one needs more publications like Baldeo Sahai’s Indian Navy: A Perspective brought out by the Publications Division. Published in 2006, it does not dwell on the more recent developments. But it gives a scholarly and comprehensive account of the history of India’s naval and maritime activities that go back to 7,000 BC, the cultural and environmental factors that conduced to these, as well as its evolution in modern times and the challenges it faces.


ramana
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jun 2009 02:09

Indian Navy Aviators' magazine

MEATBALL

JaiS
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JaiS » 10 Jun 2009 04:03



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