India Nuclear News And Discussion

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India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby arun » 15 Jun 2009 14:09

Last page of previous thread

Please continue posting here.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion - June 15, 2009

Postby arun » 15 Jun 2009 14:10

Excerpt of portion dealing with the Nuclear related aspects of Indo-US relations from CNN-IBN’s (Devil’s Advocate / Karan Thapar) interview of our Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna:

Published on Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 22:48 ………………..


Karan Thapar: A third area of concern is that America has made it clear that they would like India to sign NPT and if America itself ratifies CTBT then you will be under pressure to sign that as well. Do you think President Obama understands India's special nuclear status in the same way as George Bush understood it?

SM Krishna: Well, we presume that President Obama understands India's special status. Without reason President Bush would not have given us that kind of a status so I am sure the new administration in the US will understand the compulsions of India to not sign.

Karan Thapar: You used a very interesting phrase. You said we presume he understands India's special nuclear status. There is a certain element of doubt in that presumption, isn't there?

SM Krishna: Well, we will have to wait and see.


The complete interview transcript is here:

CNN-IBN

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 16 Jun 2009 17:40

Kalpakkam FBR nears second milestone

The prototype fast breeder reactor (PFBR) will see a major achievement when its main vessel is lowered into the safety vessel. This is expected shortly.

Outermost is the stainless steel safety vessel, which was lowered into the reactor vault last June - the first milestone.


The Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) has accorded its sanction for Rs.250 crore to carry out pre-project activities for setting up two more fast reactors at the Kalpakkam nuclear enclave.

"Now the union cabinet will have to accord its sanction," Mr. Kumar said.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 17 Jun 2009 02:34


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 17 Jun 2009 02:35

New Skin Cancer Patch: Possible Alternative To Surgery
"While basal cell carcinoma is rarely fatal, it can be a painful and disfiguring disease," said Priyanka Gupta, a nuclear medicine technologist in the Department of Nuclear Medicine at All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi, and lead author of the study. "It's exciting to think that this patch can deliver treatment on an outpatient basis with little risk of the scarring or other complications that surgery or radiotherapy present. This study opens a new dimension not only for treating skin malignancies, but also for nuclear medicine therapy in general."

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby putnanja » 17 Jun 2009 03:06

India's fast breeder reactor nears second milestone

...
The breeder reactor - which breeds more material for a nuclear fission reaction than it consumes - is being built by the Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Limited (Bhavini) at the Kalpakkam nuclear enclave, 80 km from here. The prototype fast breeder reactor (PFBR) will see a major achievement when its main vessel is lowered into the safety vessel. This is expected shortly.
...
Tasked to build fast breeder reactors in India, Bhavini is awaiting clearance from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB). Kumar said around 46 percent of the PFBR project work is complete and by the end of the year it will be 60 percent.

The sodium cooled fast reactor designed by the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) has three vessels - a safety vessel, a main vessel and an inner vessel.

Outermost is the stainless steel safety vessel, which was lowered into the reactor vault last June - the first milestone.

The main vessel made of stainless steel measures 13 metres in diameter, 13 metres in height, weighs 200 tonnes and will go inside the safety vessel to hold the coolant liquid sodium, reactor fuel, grid plates and others.

The third and smaller of the three vessels is the inner vessel - 11 metres tall - and supports equipments like pumps, heat exchangers and others.
...
...
The Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) has accorded its sanction for Rs.250 crore to carry out pre-project activities for setting up two more fast reactors at the Kalpakkam nuclear enclave.

"Now the union cabinet will have to accord its sanction," Kumar said.
...

The Indian fast reactors will be fuelled by a blend of plutonium and uranium oxide. The surplus plutonium from each fast reactor can be used to set up more such reactors and grow the nuclear capacity in tune with India's needs.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 18 Jun 2009 05:27


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 18 Jun 2009 05:29

Sign of times: anti-nuclear Ireland’s red carpet for Missile Man
Ireland, a founder-member of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT), was a strident critic of India’s 1998 nuclear test and the radical change in attitude was noted by officials on both sides.

“Our objections to the Indian nuclear test is a closed chapter. There are a small number of international commitments that remain to be fulfilled by India, but essentially we are looking forward now to starting a new phase in our relationship,” a senior Irish foreign office official said.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 18 Jun 2009 05:51


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby chetak » 18 Jun 2009 22:50

Gerard Post subject: Re: India nuclear news and discussion
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A large project, very much bigger than BARC, is fast coming up in coastal AP. This will have among other things, facilities similar to CIRRUS but with a much improved design, better efficiency and greater output and will be used " for the production of medical isotopes"



Will this be a pool type reactor like DHRUVA?



Sorry, I missed this post.

No, it will not be like DHRUVA but of a different design.

Even the familiar lingam shaped containment building will be changed to a new and unique shape for this reactor

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 19 Jun 2009 01:20

Obama-backed nuclear fuel bank plan stalls at IAEA
Diplomats in the boardroom said India led the objections. "A large number of delegations do not want to proceed," the Indian chief delegate said.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby arun » 19 Jun 2009 13:16

Michael Krepon on Gen. Sundarji's views on Nuclear Weapons over at Arms Control Wonk :

K Sundarji and India’s Bomb

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2009 20:30

arun wrote:Michael Krepon on Gen. Sundarji's views on Nuclear Weapons over at Arms Control Wonk :

K Sundarji and India’s Bomb


I hate ba*turds who attack Indians who cant defend themselves due to double whammy- OAS and they are dead. That blog is full of inappropriate matters. Anyone who claims to be in charge at home is either a liar or a does not have SHQ.

And the genius again commits Madeline Halfbright's faux pas- Hindus dont bury their dead they cremate them.

The Draft was not by NGO as the moron likes to think. Its an update of the ND authored in mid 1980s with inputs from KS, then Lt Gen KS, AVM Johnny Green and VADM KK Nayyar, R. Chidamabaram and AP Kalam. Crapon should read his own buddy Perkovich.

No its US insitigating the TSP on nuclear adventures that caused the destabilization.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 19 Jun 2009 21:13

And look at the very last sentence from Krapon - but this guy was always under the impression that he knows whats best for India better than Indians do. Ignore the bugger :twisted:

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby svinayak » 19 Jun 2009 21:52

The last sentence gave the game away.

The notion that a covert nuke program will give stability when at the same time large scale proliferation is going on is a fallacy they are trying to sell. This is even when they knew for 18 years that AQ Khan was proliferating in the neighborhood.

Now they are working on to make sure that "stabilizing consequences of taking the Bomb out of the basement." does not happen at all. What a brilliant idea.

They are trying to probe the mind of the person with an article written more than 10 years ago and who is no more and is not preview to events which happened after 2000. Laughable

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2009 22:01

If Shekar Gupta or C Rajamohan have any integrity they should rebut this turd.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2009 22:16

Why not simply post an unemotional factual statement about the draft in the comments of that blog post ? Simply show that the emperor has no clothes, for everyone who reads the post.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 19 Jun 2009 22:21

The question is , why now?

Is this a first shot at manipulating the conferences ahead?

I suspect this has to do with FMCT, NPT and MOST (not an acronym) of all GNEP. FMCT, CTBT and NPT are the nails to get GNEP into place.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 19 Jun 2009 22:35

The Indian led slapdown of the International Fuel Bank proposal must have the NPAs smarting.

As Roberta Wohlstetter wrote 3 decades ago
...any attempt to define Indian behavior as in violation of any agreement, American, Canadain, or IAEA, met with the same legalisms and fuzzy talk that have characterized the history of our relations with that country. Indian bickering and redefinitions have left their mark on many negotiations and institutions involving atomic energy, including those, like the NPT, to which India is not a party.


The NPAs really resent India for this. It is the legacy of Homi Bhabha, not the Pokhran PNE, that annoys them.

Albert Wohlstetter wrote
Using the eighteenth century language of natural law from our Declaration of Independence, the NPT asserts the ‘inalienable right’ of all countries to peaceful nuclear energy – which includes, some exporters apparently feel, reprocessing. We have a new natural right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Plutonium.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 19 Jun 2009 22:38

G,

"International Fuel Bank" IS GNEP.

Not just the NPAs, even GOTUS must be seething.

My guess was, and is, that the "state-of-the-art" reproc facility that Bush "promised" was just a part of GNEP. I suspect IF India agrees to the fuel bank, India will get reproc facility within a day.

Not that India will be allowed to do anything, for that reproc facility will be under GNEP.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 19 Jun 2009 22:44

BTW, GNEP necessarily mean NO 3 stage in India.

Because? Because Indian FBRs will be breeding (fuel) outside this "International Fuel Bank".

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2009 23:39

JE Menon wrote:And look at the very last sentence from Krapon - but this guy was always under the impression that he knows whats best for India better than Indians do. Ignore the bugger :twisted:


After the Ghauri test in April 1998 the situation was unstable. The Ghauri test signalled that TSP was on an escalatory ladder with missile delivery vehicles. They already had tested PRC delivered weapons. India by then had Agni Technology Demonstrators and no tested weapons. And was thus at a lower situation. The answer to the Ghauri test had to be a nuke test and not another agony test as the West was expecting. It wasn't a missile vs missile gap. It was deterrence vs non deterrence gap. Total misreading by the US and hence the surprise.
Krapon is spinning the story to fool some deluded WKKs in New Delhi.

There is a plethora of books by former US govt officials which show that TSP had tested in PRC. In fact the Bush Admin invoked Pressler but did not reveal the real reasons for it. There was a steady proliferation going on between RPC and TSP with Clinton Admin wringing their hands and pretending to be world leaders while they were doing their best to restrain India.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 20 Jun 2009 23:17


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 20 Jun 2009 23:19

IAEA Board Splits on Nuclear Fuel Bank Proposal
The International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation governing board yesterday blocked a request by the organization's chief to move forward on planning a multilateral civilian nuclear fuel supply for use in power plants,
"A large number of delegations do not want to proceed," said the ambassador to the organization from India, which led opposition to the proposal.
delegations kept saying they felt this plan would hamper their inalienable and sovereign right under the [Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty] to develop their own nuclear fuel cycle," said one diplomat who attended the closed IAEA board session.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 21 Jun 2009 00:56


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 21 Jun 2009 01:54



"We should keep in mind that the purpose of these proposals is to expand, not to restrict, access to the peaceful use of nuclear energy," Geoffrey Pyatt, U.S. deputy chief of mission, said at the meeting


That, as usual, is the partial truth. One has to wonder where the Pakistanis got their habit from.

Another concern:

Russia, meanwhile, has offered to establish an international fuel enrichment station in Siberia. The U.N. nuclear watchdog would oversee sales of fuel produced by the site, ensuring that distribution took place on an apolitical basis.


How is that possible?

Bet Obama will have to muscle his way through this one. Creating a bigger rift with India.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 21 Jun 2009 07:50

Gerard wrote: It is the legacy of Homi Bhabha, not the Pokhran PNE, that annoys them.

You hit the nail on the head.

I did not know much of Dr. Homi Bhabha beyond the usual superficial knowledge of an Indian collage graduate, but as I studied the nu-clear domain, I salute this great Indian every time his name crosses my mind.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby arun » 21 Jun 2009 10:39

It would be great if the deal with Kazakhstan for supply of a nuclear reactor by NPCIL goes through:

NPCIL embarks on marketing drive for reactors

Kazakhstan, South East Asian, African nations are on radar.

Our Bureau

New Delhi, June 20 Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd (NPCIL) has embarked on a marketing blitz to hard-sell its mainstay 220 MWe and 540 MWe reactors.

Heralding the coming of age of the ‘nuclear company with alive technology for small and medium reactors”, the State-owned firm has even put out design aspects of its two Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor (PHWR) models on its Web site to commercially market it. Kazakhstan, South-East Asian countries and African nations are on the nuclear major’s radar.

A proposal for reactor sales to Kazakhstan is already on the anvil, with discussions between NPCIL and the central Asian nation’s nuclear utility Kazatomprom at an advanced stage. ……………………

“Currently, India is perhaps the only country to have an actively working technology, design and infrastructure for manufacture of small reactors with a unit capacity of 220 MWe. These units have a great potential for exports, particularly to nations with small grids that are planning nuclear forays with relatively lower investment levels,” an official said. ………………………..

Officials said small size nuclear reactors are apt for countries that have small grids of around 10,000 MW. Use of large reactor units in case of countries having small grids could potentially lead to grid failures if even a single large unit shuts down at any point in time. …………………….

Hindu Business Line

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Sanatanan » 21 Jun 2009 13:37

Here's an update on U contamination found in Punjab

Uranium contamination in Bathinda’s groundwater by Dr G.S. Dhillon
(The Tribune, Online Edition, June 19, 2009, Chandigarh, India)

. . .

A team of experts has carried out investigations on this issue and tested 90 samples of groundwater taken from tubewells and hand pumps from 22 villages of Bathinda district. These samples were tested jointly with experts from BARC and Kota Research Centre of the Kota Atomic Research Station. For testing two modes were used — Fission Track mode and Laser Flourimeter technique. This dual mode was adopted to be doubly sure of the results obtained.

. . .

The question that needs probing is how uranium has contaminated Bathinda district’s groundwater. Experts at GNDU say the uranium could have come from the Tosam Hills of Bhiwani area of Haryana, where granite rocks having high radioactivity are found. The concentration of uranium in groundwater of that area is about 60 mg/litre. But it is difficult to understand how this contamination occurred in the absence of any major geological shift.The likely possibility is that it may be on account of environmental changes caused by wastes produced by the Thermal Plants of 1360 MW operating in Bathinda district since the 1970’s. These power plants burn 24,000 tons of coal daily to produce electricity, and produce flue gases, flyash and pond ash which is stored in Ash Ponds in the form of slurry (Ten parts water to one part ash). The Ash Ponds have not been provided with “Lining Material” so as to prevent seeping water to mix with the groundwater and cause contamination.

. . .

Coal contains low levels of uranium, thorium and other ‘naturally occurring radioactive materials’ (NORMs) whose release into the environment leads to radio-active contamination. While these NORMs are present only as trace impurities in the coal, these tend to get concentrated in the residues once the coal is burnt in thermal plants. A significant amount of these NORMs get released into the environment through the flue gases, fly-ash and the furnace bottom ash which keep accumulating in the ash-ponds from where they tend to leach into the groundwater sources.

. . .

Close testing needs to be carried out by the PPCB and BARC to find out whether ash ponds are the source of contamination and, if so, what measures need be taken to rectify the position and make available “clean water” for human consumption. Also, coal needs to be analysed to determine the concentration of NORMs so as to select the ‘cleanest available’ and to minimise the quantity of these radioelements getting released in the air and seeping into the groundwater from the ash-ponds. With several Ultra Mega Thermal Plants for Punjab in the pipeline, this issue is of utmost importance. Additionally, the possibility of extracting precious uranium for the thermal plant ash ponds not only in Punjab but from all over India needs to be considered seriously.


Radon release from ash-storatge areas in coal-fired thermal power plants is a known issue. Radon activity, if it exists in this loaction, does not seem to have been highlighted in this report.

May be this is a prelude to justify locating an npp near abouts Bathinda?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby geeth » 22 Jun 2009 10:23

I had been trying to find out the progress on the Thorium reactor. From available information, nothing much had happened for the past 3-4 years though Anil Kakodkar keeps on repeating that 3-stage programme is important for India. They were supposed to start construction of the reactor long back. Why the delay?

Is there any attempt by interested parties to sabotage the programme? Why can't the opposition parties raise these issues (including diminishing allocation of funds to AEC etc) in parliament and take the Govt to task (IF they are at fault)?

Looks like the focus has now been shifted to imported reactors and achieving the target figure for Nuclear energy. I wish some of the funds allocation goes for development of home grown technologies also.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 22 Jun 2009 10:41

Geeth: What else did you expect after MMS got past the nuclear deal in Parliament by corruption and deciet?
    "Bhains tou tab hi paani main gayee!"

Why are we not able to see what is the reality when it is happening?

Reduction in allocation to DAE is the biggest data that no one can argue against. DAE/Kakodkar bravado of 3rd stage nuclear reactor is empty hot air (they can't deliver).

It is onlee walking on stellar footsteps of R Chidmabram's hot air bravado after fizzled Thermonuclear test.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby geeth » 22 Jun 2009 11:45

If it is indeed true, then why these issues of national importance are not raised by the opposition, particularly BJP - since it is their pet theme and is important for energy security ??

Everyone seems to be lethargic and don't want to move their a$$ on such important issues.

Chalta Hai!!

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jun 2009 22:58

Is this it?

2008 :: Progress on India's Thorium Nuclear Reactor and South Africa's Pebble Bed

In April, 2008, India started a test reactor for its Thorium design, which has a flexible configuration and allows use of a range of fuel materials; we can even physically shift the distance between fuel rods. Here we are able to simulate the reactor almost 100 percent.


2008 :: Q&A: Thorium Reactor Designer Ratan Kumar Sinha

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 23 Jun 2009 00:33

Yep - I thought too that the AHWR has made decent progress. I had read this interview before (this is as late as 2008). So, why do folks seem to think that we cant deliver on the 3 stage goal?

Note: I am not a big fan of Kakodkar, especially after his volte face regarding the nuclear deal. And, the DAE budget cuts if true, are a serious concern.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Jun 2009 04:23

geeth wrote:If it is indeed true, then why these issues of national importance are not raised by the opposition, particularly BJP - since it is their pet theme and is important for energy security ??

Will it get them votes? or money?
Is BJP the only party to bear the nation's burden of issues of national importance?

Everyone seems to be lethargic and don't want to move their a$$ on such important issues.

Chalta Hai!!

Again politics is about power and money. The nature of modern Indian politics is not issue based, it is vote (power) and/or money based.

Kalawati and Leelawati get electricity in their huts is immaterial,
to been seen as caring for Kalawati and Leelawati gets votes and that is material.

Welcome to new India.

But why complain? India gets what it deserves.

Unless India get thousands of Rahul Mehta (BRF memeber) who will stand in elections to provide a chance for people to vote for what really matters fro India.

Prem Kumar wrote:And, the DAE budget cuts if true, are a serious concern.

Why speculate?
What will it take for you to use Google and get the last 3 years DAE budget numbers and report on this thread how much it been slashed in the last 2 years?
--------Added later: Corrected name of Rahul Mehta.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby sum » 23 Jun 2009 08:44

Unless India get thousands of Rahul Shukla (BRF memeber) who will stand in elections to provide a chance for people to vote for what really matters fro India.

Errr, i think you meant Rahul Mehta, Arun-ji.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby geeth » 23 Jun 2009 09:36

>>>Yep - I thought too that the AHWR has made decent progress. I had read this interview before (this is as late as 2008). So, why do folks seem to think that we cant deliver on the 3 stage goal?

I was more interested in knowing whether construction activities have started for the Thorium reactor. These information about design is available for the past 3-4 years. The reason for raising this issue is because of an article I read more than a year back (which I can't locate now) about the talk about construction activities to begin soon. Then came the nuclear deal and the news about budgetary cuts and no allocation of funds for construction of Thorium reactor. Hence the skepticism.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 23 Jun 2009 09:43

sum wrote:
Unless India get thousands of Rahul Shukla (BRF memeber) who will stand in elections to provide a chance for people to vote for what really matters fro India.

Errr, i think you meant Rahul Mehta, Arun-ji.

Thanks. My bad for mixing up the name. I stand corrected.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby somnath » 23 Jun 2009 14:11

Reduction in allocation to DAE is the biggest data that no one can argue against. DAE/Kakodkar bravado of 3rd stage nuclear reactor is empty hot air (they can't deliver).


The numbers as per

http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2009-10(I)/eb/stat02.pdf

The aggregate numbers seems to have only gone up in the last few years, including 2009-10 projections. There is a reduction in the latest "budgeted" numbers for 2009-10 on the Plan Capital expenditure head, but that could be because of a variety of factors other than a conspiracy to reduce the budgets:

1. The last budget was really a "half budget" on account of the elections. The real budget is going to be presented now.
2. The broad brush numbers for the budget looked (even now look) very bad on account of the crisis. The govt has to make headroom for the stimulus packages while maintianing a semblence of "balance" in the budget.

Taking into account both the above, the heads that are most easily cut are the ones with least immediate visibility, and capex budgets generally have the greatest "fuzziness" (as opposed to revenue expenditures like salary, consumables etc that have a straight line projection typically)....Therefore the bean counters framing the documents would have used the scissors, the ministor in charge (the PM in this case) otherwise engaged, and everyone knew that the3 real Mccoy would be presented a few months down the line.

Fail to see any systemic attempt to downsize here...

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 18:18

At an even more granular level:

DAE :: The Budget allocations, net of recoveries 2007-2008, 2008-2009

2007-2008: 3796.85 (Crores of Rs)
2007-2008 revised: 3503.00
2008-2009: 3908.00


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