India Nuclear News And Discussion

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Jun 2011 03:31

^^^Yes, the article has been posted twice before the last time.
Meanwhile from ibnlive...
Come invest in India as N-Liability Bill safe regime: Jaitley

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 24 Jun 2011 06:57

In the meanwhile, India plays hardball on the ENR issue...

http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/24/stories ... 101600.htm

“It is for the U.S. companies now to proceed with commercial negotiations... and we would hope that the companies would move forward quickly in this regard.” Ms. Shankar added that the nuclear companies “have been in touch” and had held discussions and workshops with India's nuclear power apparatus.

The U.S. may, nevertheless, wish to tread carefully as it is increasingly clear its nuclear competitors such as Russia and France are sparing no effort to move forward with their engagements with the Indian establishment.

Mr. Sharma said here that these countries might soon even be able to conclude commercial negotiations. “When I was in France, the French nuclear people, including the CEO of Areva, met with me. It is very clear that [similarly Russia] is very enthusiastic to move forward.”

Its not even subtle - a clear, direct - "if you mess with us, we have other options" message...All the naysayers of the nuke deal should note...

Amber G. wrote: Come invest in India as N-Liability Bill safe regime: Jaitley

Its ironic...The "opponents" of the deal going ahead and selling the benefits of the deal in the US!

Noora kushti, was it!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Jun 2011 13:44

Published on Jun 18, 2011
By Rajiv Nayan
India’s NSG Membership: IDSA

The Nuclear Suppliers Group is, apparently, meeting in the Netherlands on June 20, 2011. A section of the media and the think tank community suggests that India’s membership in the NSG will be discussed at this meeting. The meeting has generated interest in the global policy community because it will greatly determine India’s membership of the other three multilateral export control regimes. The meeting, in fact, will be an important step towards the implementation of the November 2010 joint statement signed between India and the United States.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 24 Jun 2011 21:48

BC tweets

Indo-US nuke deal: NSG's new ban on enrichment and reprocessing technology abandons all pretense of having granted India a "clean" exemption

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 24 Jun 2011 23:47

X-posted from MMRCA thread...

M K Bhadrakumar: US-India ties in primary colours

India could well be paying the price for its dogged refusal to become part of the US’ containment strategy toward China. To ‘insiders’ and perceptive outside observers alike in Delhi, many recent developments were unmistakably suggesting for a while already that contrary to the soap operas of the US state department singing songs of glory about the US’ partnership with India, things were not exactly going well - and were getting to be more and more problematic. Delhi was getting to be wiser and wiser about the US strategies toward India but indeed wouldn’t feel the urge to contradict the US’ public diplomacy, which, therefore, misled the public perceptions. Indian diplomacy works in strange ways - and has quietly done an extraordinary amount of ‘new thinking’ as to how to steer the country ahead in a complicated regional and international milieu.

But to begin with, let us draw the balance sheet. One, India has refused to join a new avaatr of the US’ 6-year old fanciful idea of an alliance of Asian democracies against China (which South Block mandarins almost signed up for in 2005). Two, in the past couple of years, India began steadily distancing itself from the US and started working on the normalisation of relations with China on a bilateral track (against stiff opposition bordering on sabotage by sections within the Indian establishment - often hand in glove with the media - which are hopelessly, crudely wedded to the past and simply lack the intellectual capacity or the sophistication to comprehend the spirit of our times.)

Three, in the more recent past, India point blank refused to play ball with the US to pile pressure on Pakistan. Four, Indian policymakers instead opened the track of dialogue with Pakistan with primacy, again, placed on bilateralism. Five, Indian rhetoric against Pakistan (and China) has become ‘nil. (Refer to the proceedings of the recent Shangri-La conference in Singapore.)

Six, India finally took a measured step toward seeking membership of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation whose main agenda is to check the expansion and consolidation of US/Nato military presence int he region. Seven, India reworked its Afghan policies and has all but delinked from the US strategies. Eight, India bluntly refused to be drawn into the propagandistic exercises of the Rana trial at Chicago despite US urgings, directly or indirectly, to have an old-fashioned bash at the Pakistani security establishment. (Sections of our media fell into the trap.)

Nine, India has distanced itself from the US game plan to corner the regime of Mahinda Rajapaksa in Sri Lanka. Ten, Indian policy in Nepal is shifting gear with greater accent on regional stability rather than the ‘new great game’.

Eleven, India overlooked the bids by Boeing and Lockheed in the MMRCA tender. Twelve, India has kept an independent stance in the UN Security Council on the issues of LIbya and Syria. Thirteen, India abstained at the IAEA vote on Syria. Fourteen, India turned down the US proposal to have a new format of strategic dialogue known as ‘two-plus-two’ (involving defence ministers in addition to foreign ministers). Fifteen, India finds it difficult to accede the request of the US companies exporting nuclear reactors to amend its Nuclear Liability law to suit exactly their business needs.

But in reality, both Delhi and Washington know - as WikiLeaks cables reveal - that it is just not in India’s DNA (to borrow a memorable phrase from the People’s Daily) to be a poodle. The rupture that threatens to break out next week could well throw the entire US-India nuclear deal into a spin, but it has also brought out into the open the real alchemy of the US-India relationship as a hard-nosed, selective partnership based on mutual advantage. It stands out in primary colours. Sans misleading euphoria, sans false pretensions, sans unrealistic expectations.

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 25 Jun 2011 06:36

NSG ends India's ‘clean' waiver
http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/25/stories ... 430100.htm

I don't know why we spent so much time from 2005 to 2008 for the nuclear deal if they had to deny us the ENR technologies.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 25 Jun 2011 09:25

sukhish wrote:NSG ends India's ‘clean' waiver
http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/25/stories ... 430100.htm

I don't know why we spent so much time from 2005 to 2008 for the nuclear deal if they had to deny us the ENR technologies.

ENR is only one of the entire gamut of nuclear technologies that India can trade in post the NSG waiver...Not to forget fuel, something whose effect is already being felt in NPCIL...

On ENR, to start with, apparently our guys arent all that keen on imported stuff (refer to SRikumar Bannerjee's interview posted above)..Second, the last word has not been said on this yet...Refer to the State Dept's statement here..
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/06/166878.htm

The NSG’s NPT references, including those in the ENR guidelines, in no way detract from the exception granted to India by NSG members in 2008

Refer back also to explicit statements from Russia and France that they are ready to export ENR tech to India, should we want to import...

India will of course take this badly, and expect hardball playing with the US...

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 25 Jun 2011 10:15

agreed that the last word is still not out yet. since India got a clean waiver back in 2008, can the NSG still impose ban on india ?
I mean tomorrow they can put a ban on sale of uranium itself let alone ENR tech, which will nullyfy the whole nuclear deal.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 25 Jun 2011 10:24

sukhish wrote:agreed that the last word is still not out yet. since India got a clean waiver back in 2008, can the NSG still impose ban on india ?
I mean tomorrow they can put a ban on sale of uranium itself let alone ENR tech, which will nullyfy the whole nuclear deal.

Technically, yes..but NSG works on consensus, so they have to convince every single country of the merits of a "ban" on India - a little difficult in today's scenario...

The ENR business, despite what Sidharth Vardarajan would have us believe, is not "India targeted"...Discussion on this has been on for years, I think predating the start of Indo-US nuke deal talks even...The issue is really with some member countries (Brazil, South Africa, Turkey and some others) not having signed an "Adiitional Protocol" with IAEA - refer to the link posted above on the story...India's "clean waiver" seems to have been a "probable" collateral damage to that...

Even now, the story doesnt end here, India's "clean waiver" from NSG stands, and there is sure to be enough "prisoner's dilemma" games played by us to circumvent any negative impact...

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Jun 2011 11:42

There will be no 'ban' on India as long as we play nice. But that is the rub.

The NSG is stocked with countries that don't like our Nuclear program, as structured and can be anal about it. Canada & Australia spring to mind.

And yes they can withdraw our access to material and technology at any point. Lets see how this one is spun as another victory only.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2011 17:21

Theo_Fidel wrote:There will be no 'ban' on India as long as we play nice. But that is the rub.

The NSG is stocked with countries that don't like our Nuclear program, as structured and can be anal about it. Canada & Australia spring to mind.

And yes they can withdraw our access to material and technology at any point. Lets see how this one is spun as another victory only.

The not so subtle hand of the US is also there with some not so subtle strong arm tactics.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 25 Jun 2011 17:28

chetak wrote:he not so subtle hand of the US is also there with some not so subtle strong arm tactics.

Chetak-ji, nothing is stronger than the dollar (or the lamented Euro!)...Do you think Russia or France are going to play cheerleaders for a "ban" against India once Jaitapur construction starts, or Kudunkulum 3/4? That is the beauty of the nuke deal...

The bigger "beauty" is on the cards - India's membership to NSG..There was further progress on it this time....It might take a year or so, but that is going to be the other game changer for India...

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 26 Jun 2011 03:50

somnath wrote:
sukhish wrote:NSG ends India's ‘clean' waiver
http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/25/stories ... 430100.htm

I don't know why we spent so much time from 2005 to 2008 for the nuclear deal if they had to deny us the ENR technologies.
ENR is only one of the entire gamut of nuclear technologies that India can trade in post the NSG waiver...Not to forget fuel, something whose effect is already being felt in NPCIL...

The spin starts...what part of the word "clean" exemption, do we not understand?

sraj · Post by **sraj** » 26 Jun 2011 06:30

somnath wrote: The bigger "beauty" is on the cards - India's membership to NSG..There was further progress on it this time....It might take a year or so, but that is going to be the other game changer for India...

Could you elaborate on how this is a 'game changer for India'? What are the relative benefits of India's NSG membership: to the NSG cartel, and to India -- in these changed circumstances?

The cartel strengthens India's adherence to all their export control regulations while explicitly denying India specific technologies in violation of the 2008 clean waiver.

India will need to reciprocate with equal creativity in interpreting its obligations.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Jun 2011 23:13

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nucle ... a/809953/0

Nuclear suppliers tighten trade rules, may irk India

The NSG's revision of its voluntary guidelines -- under discussion for years and adopted at a June 23-24 meeting in the Dutch town of Noordwijk -- does not apply to trade in reactors or in the uranium needed to fuel them, experts say.

But an added condition stipulates that only parties to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) can get uranium enrichment or spent fuel reprocessing equipment and technology.

Well people are still going to claim that they were right and giving up our well performing policy for peanuts is great trade.

Paah.....

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 29 Jun 2011 01:10

Goldschmidt and Dalton have also highlighted another faulty proposition when they write ‘…in the case of India, the state first in the queue for membership…’ This gives the impression that there is a long queue. There is no so queue. At present, there is only one case before the NSG, that of India.

Here, it is also important to emphasise that disagreement does not amount to ‘name-calling’. Moreover, the issue is not about being pro-India or anti-Pakistan, but about focusing upon the disturbing, informal and latent advocacy of a leading proliferator whose links with, and sponsorship of, terrorism are being exposed to the world every day, including in US courts.

Their strong advocacy of the CTBT is not sufficient, for it is not likely to enter into force any time soon. Whether you call it dead or not, the fact remains that it is not working. True, the Indian government has declared a voluntary moratorium on nuclear tests. It is well within the right of scholars and experts outside the government to question the relevance and logic of reiterating this moratorium when the test ban treaty has become meaningless.

http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/IndiasN ... yan_180611

The authors should also ensure that the commitment made by the US government in the November 2010 joint statement for India’s membership of the NSG is fulfilled. The non-fulfilment of this commitment will seriously erode the credibility of the system.

Implicitly China is playing backdoor game by putting Pakistan against India all the time so that India's case can be blocked. I do not know what our Govt is doing when they Visit Beijing everything they sign an agreement with China which favours only china while China is playing all out game with India.

On the other US should have done this well before if there should be a business with India in this nuclear energy. Not only cleared up these things to make way to invest in this area but also by this time the nuclear reactors should have been set up. But any way at present Solar energy is a better hope than the expensive nuclear one.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jun 2011 09:41

NSG shifts goal posts

The sudden move to amend the guidelines, therefore, raises the question: Is there a hidden motive? The NSG says the proposed amendments are meant to rein in rogue states like Pakistan, North Korea and Iran, but that is not entirely convincing. For, the NSG could only twiddle its thumbs when China decided to set up new nuclear power plants in Pakistan and supply fuel for them, cocking a snook at the suppliers’ group and the US. Nor has the non-proliferation regime prevented Pakistan from adding bombs to its arsenal. Therefore, it is unlikely that tightening of guidelines will impose curbs on either transfer of technology or supply of fuel. Are we then to believe that all this amounts to pressure tactics to force India into watering down its nuclear liability law? Or will we be asked to accept full scope safeguards for all nuclear facilities and subject them to international inspection? The coming days will provide answers to these and related questions. Meanwhile, the Government would be well advised not to make tall claims like the proposed amendments will not impact us adversely as we have a watertight ‘clean waiver’.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Jun 2011 12:45

Trust BC to say the entire story in few pithy well expressed words. Now thats talking....

India’s tangled web of public deception on the nuclear deal with the U.S. unravels: My op-ed on myth of a "clean" waiver

http://t.co/ofl2V1w

More fundamentally, the deal has come to symbolize the travails of the Singh government—scandals, broken promises, malfeasance, poor public accountability, and the resort to casuistry to camouflage reality. The cash-for-votes scandal in Parliament set the stage for the other scams that have followed.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 29 Jun 2011 14:46

^^
Where are the four year old loose canons that were cheering this "deal" and loud mouthing rest of us?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Jun 2011 14:50

SRoy wrote:^^
Where are the four year old loose canons that were cheering this "deal" and loud mouthing rest of us?

They will soon come about asking for the thread to be locked, since nonsense is being discussed here.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 29 Jun 2011 16:31

Sanku wrote:
SRoy wrote:^^
Where are the four year old loose canons that were cheering this "deal" and loud mouthing rest of us?
They will soon come about asking for the thread to be locked, since nonsense is being discussed here.

Well eating Banana while Japan is getting into internal radiation business and India into "un"clean exemptions.
Anyway I will restrain myself.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 29 Jun 2011 19:01

I don't follow as to why the government is hankering after NSG membership. Being a part of the NSG seems advantageous to the exporter only if the exporting nation intends to proliferate to other non-NPT nations (e.g. Russian deal over Kudankulam or China's exports to Pakistan). Now since India doesn't have any signed deals with Pak, North Korea or Israel that could get grandfathered in, what is the utility of this membership?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jun 2011 20:08

The problem with the waiver has always been that it provides access, no more. There is no requirement for the exporting companies/countries to supply India with the fuel and Equipment needed. Compared to say oil there are only a handful of truly nuclear countries in the world. It is very easy for them to force others who want the technology to do their bidding.

The NSG is not a club to crash into. We hold none of the cards. You might get in but then what. These are the same games Massa played with TSP for instance, contributing to the present disarray there.

Note that China continues to proliferate to TSP of all places and the NSG does not open its mouth or even mention cutting of Chinese access to fuel.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 29 Jun 2011 21:35

Since the NSG operates by "consesus" cannot India veto any proposal not to its liking once its inside the tent? This would be worth the price of admission.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 29 Jun 2011 23:04

tejas wrote:Since the NSG operates by "consesus" cannot India veto any proposal not to its liking once its inside the tent? This would be worth the price of admission.

Exactly. Membership is better than any waiver, clean or dirty.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 29 Jun 2011 23:37

GuruPrabhu wrote:
tejas wrote:Since the NSG operates by "consesus" cannot India veto any proposal not to its liking once its inside the tent? This would be worth the price of admission.
Exactly. Membership is better than any waiver, clean or dirty.

Not in a club which has two tier membership. If they said P 6 it would be worthwhile. Everything else is pulling wool over our eyes.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jun 2011 23:45

Not to mention that it is we who need the rules changed. So anyone else can easily veto such a rule change or indefinitely delay it.

Also just a reminder we don't have membership yet. Only hints that sometime in the future we may get in. No one has yet mentioned the price for that one yet also. All the rule will be jigged before that happens anyway.

Another victory onlee... ..AOA and all that...

Meanwhile....

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 036460.cms

Director of Center for Environmental Studies, GITAM University here, Prof Shivji Rao has opposed former president Dr Abdul Kalam's view on nuclear power that it not be abandoned for the risks it poses to man.

Prof Rao argued that the nuclear technology in India faces higher levels of failures and risks,"since even advanced economies like USA, Japan and Germany have failed to master the nuclear safety problems".

On Sunday, while interacting with the students of an engineering college at Sivakasi in Tamil Nadu Dr Kalam had said that nuclear power could not be abandoned for the risks it poses to man just "as aircrafts and automobiles have not been abandoned following accidents."

However, in a statement Prof Rao said, "This statement is highly improper in view of the Indian ethos. While automobile and aircraft accidents kill individuals and harm the interests of only one generation, the damaging impacts of nuclear power can ruin interests of several generations of human beings and other forms of life, on which man depends for his survival."

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 30 Jun 2011 07:11

There is a huge amount of confusion and lack of understanding on the isue of nuclear commerce in general, NSG/waivers et al in particular...That is expected, but then it means that the debate in "popular" fora on the issue becomes polemical rather than topical and rational..

First what is NSG? NSG is a group of countires who have voluntarily come together to set out standards of nucelar commerce and curb non-proliferation...

Second, what are these NSG "guidelines", of the sort that the recent meeting of NSG passed w.r.t ENR tech? These are "voluntary" guidelines that members are expected to follow while trading with other countries..

Ergo, each member nation is really "free" to carry on as they jolly well wish, technically speaking..We have had numerous instances of that...Russia supplying fuel for Tarapur in 2001, when 32 out of 34 members of NSG then publicly commented that the action would circumvent Russia's NSG commitments...Or indeed, Kudunkulum 1/2, which technically could be argued were outside NSG guidelines...More recently, China's supply of Chashma 1/2 (and now 2 more) to Pak could be described similarly...

The question therefore is, if everything is "voluntary", why bother? What is the big deal about the NSG "waiver"? the answer, simply is, "institutional shame", if I may use that word..While NSG is a voluntary group, its members have sworn collectively to implement a set of non-proliferation guidelines...Therefore, every time a member of group chooses to do a trade that clearly "violates" the guidelines, it marks itself out as an 'exception"....Given the optics, no country wants to be known publicly as a serial "violator", not on an issue as touchy as nuke proliferation in the international context. (mind you, one is not talking of AQ Khan style proliferation, which is anyway outside the "system")...

Hence, each trade of that sort becomes a political battle to be fought...And diplomatic credits encashed....Russia's fuel supplies to Tarapur, or Kudumkulum, or indeed Chashma by China - each deal involved enormous amounts of public posturing, diplomatic battles...Net net, its not a scalable model if people are interested in scaling up trade...

Now that is exactly what India's objectives were...We were looking to scale up - on fuel supplies, on new power plant tech, and of course, on ENR as well (along with tons of other nuke related tech)....The only way to do that would have been to get a "waiver" from NSG, ie, an institutional recognition that we are "kosher"...Which would simply enable all member countries to enter into formal nuke supply agreements with us (123 style), and carry on trade in "normal, scalable" fashion..Which is precisely what has happened..We have concluded 123-style agreement with a host of countres - Russia, France, Kazakhstan, Canada and some more..With a few more in the pipeline - Japan, NZ etc...(The voluntary nature of the arrangement is also visible on the flip side as well - even though we are now kosher, Australia has demurred on entering into an agreement, on account of purely dometic issues)...

Importantly, trade has started - most conspicuously of fuel, but baby steps on LWR from Russia and France as well...

Where does this ENR thing fit in the narrative? At the margin, its problematic...(It was always problematic, as there was little support for this aspect of the deal in the US legislature, even when there was widescale support for the deal itself - and private commitments were said to be given by the Bush administration to select legislators on that)...But at the same time, the voluntary aspect of NSG now comes into play...India is a "kosher" member of the "club" (trading gorup, not NSG, yet)...So France can sell us the reactor, the technology, the fuel...And through the same bilateral contract, ENR tech as well (something that they have publicly confirmed in the recent past)...It would still create a bit of noise, but given that its India, and given that the rest of the deal is fully "compliant" - the dollars to France (Euros rather!) will likely speak louder than that noise...

In practical terms, India is actually more worried about the "optics" of the new guidelines than the real impact - we had an interview of Srikuma rBannerjee (posted here earlier) where he clearly says that he isnt really interested in ENR tech...And the way to deal with the optics would be to hasten bileteral trade - which is what the whole deal was entered for! Unfortunately, the last few months have been lost on account of the various corruption related noise, as also Fukushima...

Last bit, on our membership of NSG...Why is it a "game changer"? Simple..All rules/guidelines of NSG are set by consensus...Once we are a member, efectively there cant be a guideline implemented that goes against our interests!

There is a nice article by Harsh Pant on this today - its a bit incomplete, but still..
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/core-concern/810673/0

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 30 Jun 2011 07:54

somnath wrote:There is a huge amount of confusion and lack of understanding on the isue of nuclear commerce in general, NSG/waivers et al in particular...That is expected, but then it means that the debate in "popular" fora on the issue becomes polemical rather than topical and rational..

Just chill and go with the flow and have a banana. Geniacs have it all figured out - why ruin your banana?

wig · Post by **wig** » 30 Jun 2011 09:03

Japan indicates commitment to N-deal with India

Japan today set at rest India’s apprehension about the fate of a bilateral civil nuclear deal, saying the Fukushima atomic disaster would not hamper the ongoing negotiations between the two countries for such a pact.

Japanese Ambassador to India Akitaka Saiki said the nuclear disaster following a tsunami had sent a “very very serious message” but the countries would go back to talks to firm up the agreement. “It is not that because of the tsunami, we are going to cancel the talks or postpone it,” he said. Japan and India had started talks for a civil nuclear cooperation agreement last year, aiming at allowing Japanese companies to export atomic power technology and equipment to India. There were fears in India that these negotiations could now be cancelled by Tokyo following the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

The two countries have already held two rounds of talks on the civil nuclear pact. There were indications that the deal could be announced during the Japanese Prime Minister’s visit to New Delhi towards the end of this year. Noting that both India and Japan were currently in the process of strengthening the safety mechanism in nuclear power plants, Saiki said it might take som time to resume the negotiations on the nuclear pact.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110630/nation.htm#17

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Jun 2011 11:33

somnath wrote:There is a huge amount of confusion and lack of understanding on the isue of nuclear commerce in general, NSG/waivers et al in particular...

No despite the best effort of Mainovadis and their leader Man mohan to spread FUD. The people who follow this are crystal clear on what is the real deal here.

No one is getting fooled.

amit · Post by **amit** » 30 Jun 2011 11:37

I've always felt that the amount of gas generated on this thread renders the nuclear deal superfluous. If only we could harness it and set up mega power plants, India would become power surplus (and perhaps supply some power to Germany?) and BRF could become a Gas corporation.

We are seeing another instance of a thermal blast of gas escaping from the netherworld. I second GP's point about having a banana. But heck even banana has become a four-letter word on this gaseous thread!

And please, please do not lock this thread and deprive us of such new knawledge hot off the tawa as it is being created by adults. For four-year-olds this is priceless entertainment.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 30 Jun 2011 19:02

Just to exemplify the slightly ambiguous, "voluntary" nature of the whole NSG business, especially w.r.t ENR...

People might not remember, but the NSG "waiver" does not specifically include ENR, but India purported to have included it in the general terms of "advanced technology" et al...The obfuscation was not oversight, but deliberate...There were key members in NSG, and key senators in the US, who had strong reservations about the whole ENR business...India (and NSG and the US) therefore took the practical way out - just omitted including it specifically in the "waiver"...India was confident that once the waiver came through, India's money and influence would tilt the issue on ENR if it came to that...

The 123-style agreements signed with Russia and France thereafter too did not mention ENR specifically, but was purported to be included in the general terms of "advanced nuclear tech" and some such...

Refer to this statement thereafter..

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... r-reactors

We plan to set up joint facilities for enrichment and reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel in India and some European countries. In China we already have such facility," Sergei Kiriyenko, the chief of Rosatom State Nuclear Energy Corporation, said at the 3-day Atomexpo-2010 international forum.

At the margin, the new guideline is a bit of a setback..But then, its a "voluntary" guideline...Who's going to object if Russia were to set up an ENR plant in India? France? Not after Jaitapur...US? Not if they want those 10 billion dollars worth of contracts....In fact if they want that option on C130Js to be exercised!

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 30 Jun 2011 23:46

a very authentic source about indian nuclear power including enrichment and reprocessing capability.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf53.html

the deal has been good for india. atleast no dis adv. besides we can keep buying reactors.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Jul 2011 00:13

amit wrote:I've always felt that the amount of gas generated on this thread renders the nuclear deal superfluous.

I am sure you felt that, every time you contributed to the process, as one of the main participants in that exercise.

However the rest of us can have a meaningful discussion. I suppose it depends on the capacity of the individual to take (and give) and thus shapes his/her perception.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 01 Jul 2011 00:25

since india already has decent reproc capability enrt bs will not create any trouble. Besides france and ruskies have committed to sharing

India's nuclear energy self-sufficiency extended from uranium exploration and mining through fuel fabrication, heavy water production, reactor design and construction, to reprocessing and waste management. It has a small fast breeder reactor and is building a much larger one. It is also developing technology to utilise its abundant resources of thorium as a nuclear fuel.

What oz says hardly matters. They dont even have a single reactor. nothing to gain from tech front from them .they ll start selling uranium once they realise how much business they are losing . the whole point of the deal was opening Indian market for US companies. US knew that lack of the deal was not depriving India of nuke energy. US offered the so called dual use tech only after realising that India got the stuff in any case. nost nay sayers are commies or mis guided zealots. Unkil is neither good nor bad. Its just a business. Besides the deal did not harm us in any way.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 01 Jul 2011 05:58

C Raja Mohan on the NSG saga on ENR today...Did he read my BRF post?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mantr ... g/811175/0

It has a reasonable chance to redress the ENR problem if it acts bilaterally with the nuclear big three — United States, Russia and France.

Delhi must put across a simple proposition to Washington, Moscow and Paris — “No ENR, No Reactor Deals.” India must remind all three that if they can’t keep their word, they should not expect a share in India’s nuclear pie.

The Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation agreement, it has been reported, has a provision for the transfer of ENR technologies. (For some strange reason, the nuclear agreements with Russia remain secrets while those with America are public.)
Similarly, French President Nicolas Sarkozy has reportedly assured Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that France will offer ENR technologies to India.

India must also consider cross-sector linkages by linking major arms purchases from the big three to their position on ENR transfers

amit · Post by **amit** » 01 Jul 2011 08:06

Sanku wrote:However the rest of us can have a meaningful discussion.

Your capacity for meaningful discussion is legendary. You have managed to bring in Maniovadis into the discussion on ENR. Just waiting for you to "meaningfully" link up the Nuclear deal/ENR ruling by NSG et al with the 2G scam and the LokPal discussion. You certainly have the generation capacity to do so.

But please let me be of no hindrance to your MW output. From now on I shall keep mum and stick a clothes peg on my nose and enjoy the fruits of such generation. (OK, to be polite I'll say of ideas and not of...)

amit · Post by **amit** » 01 Jul 2011 08:12

somnath wrote:C Raja Mohan on the NSG saga on ENR today...Did he read my BRF post?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mantr ... g/811175/0

It has a reasonable chance to redress the ENR problem if it acts bilaterally with the nuclear big three — United States, Russia and France.

Delhi must put across a simple proposition to Washington, Moscow and Paris — “No ENR, No Reactor Deals.” India must remind all three that if they can’t keep their word, they should not expect a share in India’s nuclear pie.

The Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation agreement, it has been reported, has a provision for the transfer of ENR technologies. (For some strange reason, the nuclear agreements with Russia remain secrets while those with America are public.)
Similarly, French President Nicolas Sarkozy has reportedly assured Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that France will offer ENR technologies to India.

India must also consider cross-sector linkages by linking major arms purchases from the big three to their position on ENR transfers

Somnath,

As S Bannerjee said, ENR is not something that India is desperate for. Free access to uranium (and the difference that makes is already evident) and fast ramp up of generation capacity and free access to global nuclear trade (both import as well as export) were IMO far more important factors behind the deal.

However, having said that, it must also be said that this recent ENR ruling is a shifting of goalpost and so in a way backtracking by the US which was either unwilling or incapable of stopping this being pushed by those haughty mid tier NSG members.

Which is why Raja Mohan is absolutely right, India should play hardball bilaterally. The global nuclear equipment industry needs India more than India needs them.

I think the time to be worried is if - and this is a big if - France and Russia turn cagey in sharing ENR tech. I haven't seen any indication of this yet. One needs to remember that NSG guidelines are voluntary.

JMT

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 01 Jul 2011 08:23

If NSG is so strict with their rules, why did they allow China-Paki deal to come into existance? IMO, this deal 9China-Paki) has done more good to our nuclear interests with NSG and other players in the field - so much so that we can point at China - Paki deal, every time some NSG member like NZ cry foul when India negotiates something with nuklear dalals of the world. Reality may be somewhat different with unkeel around, but at least we have something to argue about.