India Nuclear News And Discussion

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 05 Aug 2009 17:43

India plans to set up 20 units of indigenous PHWR


All these plant designs are export models and India has the Equipment Supply Chain for this kind of reactors in place with robust infrastructure. Several countries have already evinced interest to buy PHWRs from India.





Talking about international cooperation, he said we are expecting import of 40GWe between 2012 to 2020 as 'additionality' -- that is in addition to the indigenous three stage programme to reduce the power deficit of 7 GWe by 2050 (according to a study by the department in 2004).

But all these are possible only if India is able to get a chance for full recycle option of the spent fuel from the imported plants.

Currently, the US from whom India will be importing reactors upto 10,000 MW, has no full recycle option. Although France and Japan have that option, "we are trying hard to achieve this with the US. I am sure US will come around for a full recycle option soon", Kakodkar said.

India and US began talks on reprocessing of the spent fuel from imported US N-plants on Indian soil last month as per the requirement of 123 agreement and expected to complete the talks within three months to enable the import of US N-power plants to India.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Sanatanan » 05 Aug 2009 19:16


From the above news report:

India has already developed 220MW and 540MW PHWR type nuclear reactors which are operating successfully and "it is possible to have 20 units of 700 MW plants which can run with indigenous natural uranium as well as imported low enriched uranium," Kakodkar said.

Since the uranium available in India could supply upto 10,000 MW of electricity, the ambitious 700MW PHWRs are part of the evolutionary development of indigenous design, Kakodkar said at a function here.


This is the first time I am hearing of a proposal to design and construct indigenous PHWRs with low entiched U. I think the Canadian ACR (~ 1000 MWe) design uses LEU.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 05 Aug 2009 20:27

Are we going to stick only 700MW? Are we not going to upgrade to bigger capacities like 1000MW and so on?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 05 Aug 2009 22:11

Raj Malhotra wrote:Are we going to stick only 700MW? Are we not going to upgrade to bigger capacities like 1000MW and so on?


700 is where India is right now.

Since the uranium available in India could supply upto 10,000 MW of electricity, the ambitious 700MW PHWRs are part of the evolutionary development of indigenous design, Kakodkar said at a function here.


Unless, of course, one gets into multiplication: 2 x 500 = 1000 (as in here)

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 07 Aug 2009 00:03

Top Article: Balance The Two
As India has conducted only six nuclear tests so far, its nuclear warhead designs are based on a small database. Hence, despite the availability of sophisticated computer modelling and simulation for improving warhead designs, India must retain the option to carry out further nuclear tests as and when it is considered technically necessary by scientists of the Atomic Energy Commission and is politically feasible to do so.
India must step up efforts to acquire intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) for long-range deterrence against possible future adversaries.
It is not in India's interest to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. It is important to keep the option for further nuclear testing open for political and technological reasons. However, India should consider joining the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty after sufficient fissile material has been stockpiled to produce the number of warheads considered adequate for credible minimum deterrence. Meanwhile, India should participate in negotiations that are likely to go on for five to 10 years.

The writer is director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies, New Delhi.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 09 Aug 2009 05:57


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Aug 2009 07:43



In a way this is good. This would either expose current Indian stand of a lot more U production within India or force Indian hand to buck up.

The US stand (on ENR) combined with a Japanese about turn could actually play into Indian stand to "test". Perhaps in 2020 or so?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby arun » 09 Aug 2009 11:06



That the Japanese firms (Hitachi and Toshiba) are closely tied with the only two US firms manufacturing nuclear power reactors (GE and Westinghouse) should be of no Indian concern.

Should the US wish to partake of a slice of India’s nuclear power generation market then reining in the Japanese Government is completely their responsibility.

There is always Atomstroyexport and Areva :wink: .

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Sanatanan » 09 Aug 2009 21:12

ramana wrote:
Sanatanan wrote:From Hindustan Times, 04 Aug 2009:
Russian atomic engineer robbed in Tamil Nadu


Cant rule out covert action to harrass and dissuade these folks. Please try to post follow-up.


Here is an update from PTI:

Nine held for robbing Russian girl of camera
STAFF WRITER 18:4 HRS IST

Tirunelveli (TN), Aug 9 (PTI) Nine persons, who had allegedly snatched a camera from the daughter of a Russian scientist working at the under-construction Koodankulam Nuclear Power Plant, have been arrested, police said here.

The incident occurred when the girl was taking pictures of the sea off Anuvijaynagar Beach at Koodankulam in the district on August 2. {Based on the notices that one often sees in airports in India, I would imagine that photography in and around sensitive installations - I suppose a npp qualifies to be a 'sensitive installation' - is prohibited, unless clicked by an 'official photographer' or one who has taken the requisite permissions.}

The nine, who were arrested yesterday, belonged to Chidambarapuram near Koodankulam, police said, adding that the camera and a couple of two-wheelers used by them to escape from the scene were also seized from them.

DIG P Kannappan had formed a special team, led by Superintendent of Police Azra Garg, to nab the gang of nine.

The girl, who identified the gang members, told the DIG that she liked India and would come back again later, police said.


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 09 Aug 2009 21:50


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 10 Aug 2009 03:15

nuclear energy: compensation: Writing Out An Anticipatory Bail: The Spill Bill Is Here. The nuclear liability bill rests only on a clear bias towards foreign suppliers

Pranay Sharma

What’s the proposed Civilian Nuclear Liability Bill about?

It seeks to cap the level of compensation (likely at $450 million) in the event of an accident and makes the operator, not the supplier, liable for it.

Are the operator and the supplier different?

Yes, the Nuclear Power Corporation of India will be the operator; the suppliers are big foreign companies like America’s GE and Westinghouse and France’s Areva.

Is the supplier liable to pay compensation?

No, it’s exclusively the operator’s liability, though it can enter into an agreement with the supplier to share the burden of compensation.

Why a cap on compensation?

Insurance companies don’t provide cover for unlimited liability



“A nuclear accident could occur due to faulty equipment or design, so the supplier should be made liable.”



. Compensation over and above the fixed amount will be the Indian government’s responsibility.

Why do critics feel the bill favours American companies?

Unlike the French and Russian firms, which are either fully or partly owned by the government, the US companies are all privately owned. Had the supplier been made liable, these companies would have found it difficult to get an insurance cover—even for a compensation of $450 million. In contrast, French and Russian companies have their governments to bail them out. Without this legislation, American companies would have been muscled out.

What is the government’s stand?

Unless there’s a domestic liability regime, no foreign company will invest in the civil nuclear field. Without it, India is unlikely to be eligible for other funds from foreign bodies if a nuclear meltdown or a major accident takes place.

Is a compensation of $450 million adequate?
Certainly not. For instance, the compensation paid by Union Carbide to the
victims of the 1984 Bhopal Gas Tragedy was just $470 million, according to one estimate, it amounted to nine cents per day per person over the 19 years since the incident occurred. Initial official death toll was 3,000; subsequent deaths were nearly 15,000; people disabled permanently totalled 50,000. A nuclear disaster will have much wider and far-reaching negative consequences than what happened in Bhopal.

The worst nuclear accident:

Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, 1986. Over 50 people died at the plant. An estimated 65,000 died from Chernobyl over the years; 400,000 people from neighbouring areas of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia were evacuated and an “exclusion zone” of 3,000 sq km was created and deemed off limits for human habitation for an indefinite period.

***

The Indo-US nuclear deal simply refuses to go away, goading activists to engage in a furious debate over a contemplated legislation. Called the Civil Nuclear Liability Bill, it’s considered imperative to lure foreign players into the lucrative civil nuclear energy sector. But its provisions have raised serious questions over the government providing access to foreign nuclear companies, particularly those of the United States, to the Indian market without holding them responsible for the severe repercussions of any accident. This debate also has the echo of that familiar question: is nuclear energy a viable option for India?

There are two contentious aspects of the proposed bill. One, it proposes to cap the level of compensation at $450 million in the event of an accident at a nuclear facility. Two, the responsibility for paying this compensation will rest on the operator (likely to be the Nuclear Power Corporation) and not the supplier or foreign companies building and installing reactors in India. “Even from the free market point of view, such a proposal is totally flawed,” says writer-activist Nityanand Jairaman. His argument: since an accident in a nuclear plant could take place because of faulty design or substandard equipment, the supplier too should be held liable.

But the Indian industry thinks otherwise. A recent FICCI working group report on civil nuclear energy, chaired by Nuclear Power Corporation chairman S.K. Jain said, “It’s advisable that the liability for nuclear damages in India be solely attached to the operator of the nuclear installation. The rationale is further augmented by the fact that any activity, whether in respect of supply or services, is being utilised for the operator and not otherwise.”

In a nutshell, this means the supplier—foreign companies like France’s Areva SA, Russia’s Rosatom Corp and US giants GE and Westinghouse—will reap huge profits by setting up nuclear reactors and selling their technologies, but will not be required to pay compensation in case of a nuclear accident at their plants. It will also be the operator’s liability to seek insurance cover for a maximum limit of $450 million. Compensation over and above this amount would be borne by the Indian government. The FICCI report, however, adds a caveat—the operator and supplier could enter into a private contract to share the compensation burden.

Says Praful Bidwai, writer and a member of the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace, told Outlook, “This is being done under the combined pressure of the US and Indian industry, both of which are keen to get a share of the Indian civil nuclear energy pie.” However, the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), responsible for formulating the proposed legislation, says putting a cap on compensation is an international practice. The reason, say DAE officials, is simple—a nuclear accident can cause colossal damages and raise demands for inconceivable compensation amounts. Typically, insurance companies are not willing to underwrite unlimited compensation. Consequently the cap.

But why absolve the supplier from liability? Activists allege this proviso has been introduced to enable the American companies to enter the Indian market. It’s easy for the French and Russian companies, which are either completely or partially owned by their governments, to buy an insurance cover for the earmarked $450-million. Since the two US companies are privately owned (though Japanese firms now have major stakes in them), finding an insurance cover would have been a gargantuan task. Without the bill absolving the supplier of liability, the Americans run the risk of being edged out of the Indian market, estimated to be worth over $200 billion.

“We’re only trying to create a level playing field,” justifies a South Block official, saying the legislation will help attract investment in the civil nuclear energy sector. Critics, however, accuse the UPA government of favouring the Americans who, during US secretary of state Hillary Clinton’s recent visit, managed to secure a site each in Andhra and Gujarat for nuclear plants (worth $10 billion) based on US technology.

Interestingly, three international conventions—the Paris Convention (1960), the Vienna Convention (revised in 1997) and the Convention on Supplementary Compensation for Nuclear Damage (CSC)—also attempt to provide such indemnity to the global nuclear industry. The CSC, however, hasn’t yet come to force as it has been ratified by only three countries. Arguing that it is essential to have a CNL (Civil Nuclear Liability) framework to attract foreign investment and technologies in the civil nuclear energy field, DAE officials also hold out the imminent possibility of India signing and ratifying the Vienna Convention and the CSC. They feel this could help India access larger and “multi-layered” compensation from international sources.

But critics say the funds generated through these measures would hardly suffice, pointing to the scale of damage wrought by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster to bolster their point. Closer home, activists point to the experience of the 1984 Bhopal gas tragedy and say the $470 million as compensation was grossly insufficient (see infographic). “It’s unfortunate that a negative lesson is being learnt from the Bhopal gas tragedy,” says Satinath Sarangi of the International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal. He feels the $450-million cap and transfer of liability to the operator has been done because American companies, after their experience in Bhopal, are wary of entering the Indian civil nuclear market unless they receive guarantees of not being held culpable in an accident.

The resistance to the bill, the draft of which is ready, has set the stage for the Opposition to accuse the UPA of succumbing to “US pressure” yet again.

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261236

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 10 Aug 2009 03:37

Talking of liabelity versus investment and profits.

Imported LWR for 1,000 Mega Watt will cost India ~US$ 3 to 4 Billion (very unlike the US$2.5 Million/MWe that is internaltional norm that is bandies about), and Indian park IIRC will be for 2,000 MW each. So Indian investment of $6-8 Billion.

And yes the $0.45 billion liabelity cap is very adequate and fair liabelity coverage for $7 billion investment.

You got it right, Yes Indian are very dense !

Will GE/Halliburton be allowed to erect one nuclear palnt in US with $450 million libelity cap on reactors that GE/Halliburton does not even make themselves (they are just general contractors that is re-selling Toshiba's reactors) ?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Aryavarta » 10 Aug 2009 07:30

After reading Arun's post, I did some search on liability Caps on running nuclear reactors in US. The amount is $10 billion in some form of layered structure, guided by "Price Anderson" law originally drafted in 1957, and was extended for another 20 years in 2005. Google did throw up quite a few pages, I will provide one link below
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf67.html
Last edited by Aryavarta on 10 Aug 2009 07:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Aryavarta » 10 Aug 2009 07:39

For a reactor built in US versus India, if profits are the same then why not the same cap on liability. The argument about value of $10 billion in USA being lower than what will be in India will also not hold good as the population that would be affected will unfortunately and most likely be higher on account of larger population density in the event of a mishap. Also, it seems the liability cap $10billion itself is hotly debated in US and considered inadequate.

What about if the reason in case of the accident turns out to be negligence or using components of substandard quality, will the CEO of the entity be extradited and tried in India? Does the law have any such options?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 10 Aug 2009 10:10

Cross posting from North Korean Nuclear test thread:
-----------------------------------------------------------
ramana wrote:SanjayM, Look at it from Indian interests point of view. Whats happening in Noko?

_ Early reports circa 1998 said noo folks were there at May 30 Chagai test.
- Some Noko official disappeared in TSp around that timeframe.
- NoKo does its first test. Called small yield etc by US. However it was still a test.
- Noko does second test. This time aain US says small yield. But others say its 15-20kt.
- Noko still has relationship with TSP.
- Noko ship snooping in Indian waters of Car Nicobar.

PRC is protector of both TSP and NoKo.

What if all these are related? What black swan event could explain all these?

Pakistan first tested its nuclear weapon in Lop Nor, where Chinese allowed them to use their range to test Pakistan assembled (Enriched Uranium) nuclear weapon, based on Chinese design. This is now public information reported by many open source publications.

The first North-Korean test was unboosted fission primary based on Plutonium outsourced by Pakistani as part of JV with No-Korea.

The second North-Korean test was also outsourced by Pakistanis, it was Boosted primary (of what will be the Pakistani Thermonuclear bomb based on Chinese bomb){ See the Thieves (Pakistan and No Korea) also have to policy of trust (China) BUT verify} of 15-20 Kt yield. That is the yield a new newbie with lesser technological know-how will use to ensure second stage burn using a Chinese TN design of 80's vintage.

So India is back on the same box of pre-1998 era, when Indian neighbors (China and Pakistan) have nuclear weapons (warhead mated with missiles) "Leady too go" (Sic. Uncle Jiang Chinese Fast Food) thanks to active collaboration of China and USA, while India is beholden to Panch-Sheel and a credible PNE device (sic) to protect its hide.

India is Buddhi-chutyh (Sanskrit word meaning "Bereft of Intellect") nation whose is tied and bound by self-contradictions of babudom and GoI lead by "the fearless leader" MM Singh.

India must now declare publicly its REDLINE that any nuclear test by ANY nation on earth will result in India resuming testing of nuclear weapons.


Time for fiddling is over, US and Chinese have to control and shut seal their MUNNAs.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Raja Ram » 10 Aug 2009 10:48

Arun_S,

Our distinguished economist, pacifist, strong leader PM is a "Devanampriyah" (Beloved of the Gods), a word used in Buddhist literature commonly to refer to the Great Dharama Ashoka. It is another matter that the word is also used commonly in sanskrit classics to depict someone, who is not overburdened with intelligence. Our MMS sir is certainly "Devanampriyah". Of which variety, will let you be the judge.

The Nehru without the rose, Shri ABV gave unto ourseleves a unilateral moratorium as a shackle and his admirer statesman PM, Shri MMS is likely to ensure that we do not step out of that shackle anytime soon.

The nation waits for a real "Sardar" of the Vallabhai variety.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 10 Aug 2009 12:34

The nation waits for a real "Sardar" of the Vallabhai variety.


The modern day sardar though is currently facing motivated vilification sans substance, unending court cases from the likes of the special investigative tribunal and a massive conspiracy of silence around his very real and very visible achievements in the socioeconomic and development arena.

Our greatest stars - from HJ Bhabha to LB Shastri have been snatched away. I don't want the powers that be to treat this upcoming neta of promise with a similar evil eye.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Kailash » 10 Aug 2009 13:14

If we consider ourselves self-sufficient in building reactors, what is the need to buy foreign maal?

- Is the western technologically more effective/efficient than our own?
- Is there a connection between getting uranium and providing contracts to these countries?
- Totally a political decision? Our way of saying "Thank You" for 123?
- Does this mean the death of any further indigenous R&D in nuclear arena?

A level playing field that doesn't serve our national interest? I don't get the rationale behind the operator assuming all the liability.

btw, is this the Nuclear news only thread? or does it have actual discussions?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2009 13:39

If we consider ourselves self-sufficient in building reactors, what is the need to buy foreign maal?If we consider ourselves self-sufficient in building reactors, what is the need to buy foreign maal?


Because an economist said so.

Which is why I am delighted that the potential for the Japanese to elect a anti-Indian-civilian deal is rather high.

Such a government will expose Indian stand and position (WRT say Uranium within India, etc). There is the 123 to fall back on and then of course there are the Russians and French that can be bought out.

But, whatever happens there is an urgency WRT time. Japan, I am hoping, will make 123 null and void by the end of this quarter.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 10 Aug 2009 14:18

India must now declare publicly its REDLINE that any nuclear test by ANY nation on earth will result in India resuming testing of nuclear weapons.[/size]


Or, do what they do and get them tested in another country -- Vietnam?

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramdas » 10 Aug 2009 15:08

Arun_S,

What would be the price that we would have to pay for a nuclear test ? At worst cancellation of all the nuclear power and fuel deals with other countries, no ? In the next ten years, nuclear power shall still constitute at most 10% of our generating capacity... most probably much less than that. So, losing that power generation capacity will be only a temporary economic setback that can be compensated for by coal etc in say, two years.

What I want to point out is that if we are willing to pay the price, we can stil test. Moreover, the price is not as steep as "economists" would say. The price is approximately equal to a recession lasting 3 years .... certainly not more than that. So the only thing needed for testing is political will.

Preferably, they should move fast on Agni III and Agni V.... Looks like because of Chinese moves, Agni III will indeed end up getting deployed in 2 more years...(though even this speed is not as good as it should be)....They should test Agni V as well...The nuclear test itself should ideally happen in the 2012-2014 time frame (when delivery systems are ready).

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramdas » 10 Aug 2009 15:36

The "at most 10%" should probably be corrected to "at most 5%"...they are talking of 400000MW total generating capacity by 2020 of which nuclear would be 20000MW...so, the actual cost is less than I first thought....of course, some vested interests would have burnt their hands..

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Prabu » 10 Aug 2009 15:39


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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 10 Aug 2009 16:27

Is it possible to conduct n-weapon tests without being noticed by non-P5 countries? It is hard to believe that the P5 countries aren't secretly conducting any n-weapon tests.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Tanaji » 10 Aug 2009 16:37

This thread is classic ground hog day.

Every few pages, testing comes up using the same debated issues. Maybe we should have a separate thread for testing....

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Sanku » 10 Aug 2009 16:46

Thats what happens where drastic actions are taken when real live issues remain unaddressed and open. We would like nice closure but the undead keep coming back.
:(

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 10 Aug 2009 20:55

a_bharat wrote:
India must now declare publicly its REDLINE that any nuclear test by ANY nation on earth will result in India resuming testing of nuclear weapons.[/size]


Or, do what they do and get them tested in another country -- Vietnam?

After toilet one has to clean his own act. What was the last time another nation cleaned Indian bottom?

Since when has Vietnam become a Indian poodle against China?
or India formulated consortium of Thugs with Vietnam as side kick?

My rustic summation:
India ki Gan* main dum nahin, par mardaan-gi ki baatain bhaati hain.

IMVHO Talk is cheap.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 10 Aug 2009 21:34

Arun_S ji,

It is not a question, of Vietnam cleaning Indian arse, but rather one of India and Vietnam entering a nuclear partnership, which allows Vietnam to have its own nuclear deterrent against PRC.

There is a history of animosity between Vietnam and China. Vietnam has also had good relations with India, and have always wanted to enhance them but our leadership as always been our own worst enemy and done nothing on this score.

India should countenance China's Pakistan Doctrine with a similar response, with the only difference that Vietnam becomes a full-fledged partner. India should offer not only military supplies to Vietnam but also full nuclear cooperation, with the military angle remaining overt. If Vietnam is getting its own nuclear deterrent, then conducting nuclear tests for India would be a small price to pay, especially as their own deterrent would benefit from this testing also.

Any day, this overt help comes to light, we can always respond with our necessity in view of PRC's help to Pakistan. There is only one and only one country in the Pacific that can stand up to China, and that is Vietnam. Taiwan would soon be devoured by PRC. Japan will turn even more appeasist to PRC under the Democratic Party. South Korea will enjoy the economic ride. USA is indebted and not really in Asia with heart and soul.

Besides Vietnam has always shown that it has more balls than anybody can dream of in India! The time to act is now, not when Taiwan is being digested in the belly of the lizard.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2009 21:36

Can we make our points without getting to colorful language?

Thanks, ramana

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 10 Aug 2009 21:48

If Vietnam is getting its own nuclear deterrent, then conducting nuclear tests for India would be a small price to pay, especially as their own deterrent would benefit from this testing also.


Vietnam is not going to withdraw from the NPT and test weapons, for itself or anyone. If the international environment is hostile towards tests and India reluctant, Vietnam the NPT signatory will certainly not go down that road.

Best that can be hoped for is a Vietnamese move towards breakout capability i.e. Vietnam building up its nuclear industry with PHWRs, reprocessing and enrichment facilities, coupled with covert cold tests and simulations.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 10 Aug 2009 22:04

Gerard wrote:
If Vietnam is getting its own nuclear deterrent, then conducting nuclear tests for India would be a small price to pay, especially as their own deterrent would benefit from this testing also.


Vietnam is not going to withdraw from the NPT and test weapons, for itself or anyone. If the international environment is hostile towards tests and India reluctant, Vietnam the NPT signatory will certainly not go down that road.

Best that can be hoped for is a Vietnamese move towards breakout capability i.e. Vietnam building up its nuclear industry with PHWRs, reprocessing and enrichment facilities, coupled with covert cold tests and simulations.


Gerard garu,

It was a suggestion over the long term.

There are several variables regarding NPT's sustainability. Iran may break out in the next 5-10 years. North Korea can continue to do further tests for itself, for PRC or for Pakistan. There are other variables like PRC's stance viz-a-viz Vietnam, as well as how US-China relations develop. USA has tried earlier to draft Vietnam into its list of allies. USA may privately be not so averse to having a nuclear Vietnam on friendly terms with USA. It would give the Americans some of the similar clout which China exerts over American allies Japan and South Korea through North Korean nuclear assertiveness. NPT's ability to hold is unknown.

In the mid-term Vietnam ought to build up its nuclear technical capacity with Indian help, mostly on the civilian side of course.

As said earlier, this is too much on the lines of "wishes were horses". Indian Govt. would be too timid to pursue this avenue anyway.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 11 Aug 2009 01:45

RajeshA wrote:Arun_S ji,

It is not a question, of Vietnam cleaning Indian arse, but rather one of India and Vietnam entering a nuclear partnership, which allows Vietnam to have its own nuclear deterrent against PRC.

RajeshA ji: But I was not responding to that, I was responding to the idea of Vietnam testing Indian nuclear devices. Yes Real partnership w/Vietnam is good thing to strive, even in nuclear domain.

But to expect a country that has signed the NPT, to test Indian TN bumb because India is not boy enough to test on it own, does prove whatever I and my enemies think of India. A "tuccha" no-body waiter waiting on the high table, yet who tells his wife at home (Sansad) that he has reached the High table. :rotfl:

Now on non-nuclear matters, if Indians had any sense, they'd give the Vietnamese half a regiment of 300 Km Prithvi's ASAP, some of it as outright "cultural" aid (read, gift). These are in any case redundant in the Indian arsenal. This should be followed up with sales of BrahMos CM's. Naturally, a full compliment of "advisers" should also be posted. Even giving Vietnam FAE warheads for the Prithvi's would not be a bad idea.

Selling some BrahMos to Philippines and Indonesia will put the fear of "Lenin" in the hearts of Communist PLA/Navy.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 11 Aug 2009 08:36

Arun_S wrote:My rustic summation:
India ki Gan* main dum nahin, par mardaan-gi ki baatain bhaati hain.

IMVHO Talk is cheap.


Of course Talk is cheap -- but that's what people do on forums such as this.

The current leadership may be timid, but there have been times where the Indian leadership showed the courage and stood up to the world and I do hope we will have better people at the top in the future.

If there is any truth to the allegations about Chinese hand in the nuclearization of Pakistan, North Korea and Myanmar(?), the logical step for India is to find ways to pay back in kind. That it may be too much to expect from the current leadership which could not even respond to 26/11 -- out of timidity as it seems and not out of wisdom, is another matter.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby negi » 11 Aug 2009 09:18

Of course Talk is cheap -- but that's what people do on forums such as this.
Yes at times it happens on this fora too ..for its human to err . But then there must be definitely something different or positive about this fora which attracts erudite lurkers/readers.

If there is any truth to the allegations about Chinese hand in the nuclearization of Pakistan, North Korea and Myanmar(?)
There is no question of 'if' here ; the Chinese role in Nuke Proliferation is a known fact.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 11 Aug 2009 22:07

Nuclear arm
With the launch of INS Arihant, India, which already can fire nuclear missiles from the ground and the air, completes its nuclear triad

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Gerard » 11 Aug 2009 22:22

a_bharat wrote:If there is any truth to the allegations about Chinese hand in the nuclearization of Pakistan, North Korea and Myanmar(?)


Libyan Arms Designs Traced Back to China

Author: Joby Warrick and Peter Slevin
Publication: Washington Post
Date: February 15, 2004
URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Feb14.html

The bomb designs and other papers turned over by Libya have yielded dramatic evidence of China's long- suspected role in transferring nuclear know-how to Pakistan in the early 1980s, they said. The Chinese designs were later resold to Libya by a Pakistani-led trading network that is now the focus of an expanding international probe, added the officials and experts, who are based in the United States and Europe.

The packet of documents, some of which included text in Chinese, contained detailed, step-by-step instructions for assembling an implosion-type nuclear bomb that could fit atop a large ballistic missile. They also included technical instructions for manufacturing components for the device, the officials and experts said.

"It was just what you'd have on the factory floor. It tells you what torque to use on the bolts and what glue to use on the parts," one weapons expert who had reviewed the blueprints said in an interview. He described the designs as "very, very old" but "very well engineered."

U.S. intelligence officials concluded years ago that China provided early assistance to Pakistan in building its first nuclear weapon -- assistance that appeared to have ended in the 1980s. Still, weapons experts familiar with the blueprints expressed surprise at what they described as a wholesale transfer of sensitive nuclear technology to another country. Notes included in the package of documents suggest that China continued to mentor Pakistani scientists on the finer points of bomb-building over a period of several years, the officials said.


Transcript: Interview of A.Q.Khan

This thing was done 30, 40 years ago in the West. It's a miracle in Pakistan, where we can't even make a bicycle chain, where we can't even make a sewing needle. In this country, where there is no infrastructure. Nothing. It is a big achievement, to get this (nuclear) capacity within seven years.

AjitK
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby AjitK » 14 Aug 2009 18:02

The Bombay HC has lifted its stay on land acquisition for a nuclear power plant in Konkan.Apparently NPCIL plans to expand it into a nuclear power park producing 10000 MW.

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby Vipul » 14 Aug 2009 21:32

Yes the Power plant proposed at Jaitapur (awarded to Areva) is proposed with 6 units of 1600 MW

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Postby AjitK » 14 Aug 2009 22:06

Vipul wrote:Yes the Power plant proposed at Jaitapur (awarded to Areva) is proposed with 6 units of 1600 MW


The IE report says that NPCIL has contracted Areva for the reactors,each estimated to cost between $5.2 and $7.8billion.Is the cost estimate correct?


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