India-US News and Discussion

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Aug 2009 11:50

Well, nothing stops India from creating it's own pressure groups using religious leaders drafted from VHP and Jamaat-e-Islami-Hind. GoI's secular pretensions are handicapping it when dealing with communal USG agencies.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Aug 2009 12:21

Vera_K-> the problem today is the US with is 13.5 trillion dollar economy and India's being 1.3 trillion is calling the shots. we need to atleast a 40% of US GDP size to start taking them on.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Aug 2009 12:54

I don't think so. China went through this about 10 years ago when their economy was where ours is today. IIRC, they started putting out their own list of bad things done by the US like this report.

If nothing else, we can score some points with the votebanks by asking questions like why US does not allow 5 AM azaan for the faithful.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 14 Aug 2009 13:41

RaviBg wrote:Sources: Cheney uncloaks Bush frustration

I strongly believe that it was Cheney's resolve to keep islamists on the run that US has been safer than ever post 9/11. Nobody in the world bloody cares who their friends are because today's world is dynamic and security threats are ever changing so every country plays the game suited to its interest, even tiny mauritius does it. So the notion of what Arab's will feel if we wage a war was cut down to its trunk by Cheney and not Bush. Iraq war was Bush's war and not Cheney's. He merely had to agreed to it. Guantanamo may be Cheney's legacy but I dont mind that rats have to see hell on earth because they will do the same to Americans or any other foreigners if they(Al-Quida/Talibs) are caught in Af-Pak area. So treating them like dogs is justified. If Cheney with hardcore stand was president, islamist rats would have been burned to hell. I will vote for him if he ever stands for presidential election.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Aug 2009 13:54

CIA's secret concentration camp details revealed by former CIA #3,now in jail for corruption!

Details of secret CIA prisons released
Details of three secret prisons, built by the CIA after the 9/11 attacks, have been released.

By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Published: 14 Aug 2009

Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, a senior CIA officer who is currently in jail for corruption has told The New York Times how he oversaw the construction of three identical prisons from his base in Frankfurt where he ran the spy agency's main European supply base.

Mr Foggo rose to become number three in the CIA, but pleaded guilty to fraud last year and now is serving time in a Kentucky jail.

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CIA ignored warnings from US soldiers that torture and extreme stress would not work

9/11 'mastermind' in Guantanamo courtThe detention centres he built for "high value" terrorist detainees were in three different countries. They were virtually identical in order to disorientate senior al Qa'eda members and get them to talk.

The prisons were designed to facilitate harsh interrogation and torture and sometimes held as few as four detainees.

One prison was in a renovated building on a busy street in Bucharest, Romania. Another was in Morocco. A third was on the outskirts of another former Eastern bloc city.

The prisoners were moved back and forth and they were kept in isolated cells, often in freezing conditions, he said.

There were non slip floors and wooden walls which detainees were slammed against. They also used the waterboarding torture technique.

Mr Foggo claimed his prisons became so busy that he used a small private company owned by a friend to supply toilets, plumbing, music centres, bedding, night vision goggles, earplugs and the CIA's trademark wraparound sunglasses. Mr Foggo was rewarded with expensive holidays.

The Agency eventually had access to eight detention centres, including one in the Middle-East, Iraq and Afghanistan as well as Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eased.html

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Aug 2009 14:52

I don't think so. China went through this about 10 years ago when their economy was where ours is today.

Once again..China's economy in 2002 was where our economy is today.

This loose talk on 'unbridgable, increasing' gap has got through even to many of our Chief of Staffs. Let us really comprehend where we stand. While we're not that good, we're not that bad either. No hard feelings but i meet a lot of people who've been bough in on the propaganda that the 'gap' is unbridgeable and we are 2 decades or 15 years behind China..we're not.

PS: It was Vera K Ji last month who verified the above..in the tech forum.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 14 Aug 2009 17:53

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8200863.stm

A US body's decision to put India on a list of states which failed to protect religious minoritie is "regrettable", India's foreign ministry says.

The US Commission on International Religious Freedom says India was added to the list because of a "disturbing increase" in religious violence.

My Comment: Its time to admit the failure of India's secularism and openly declare India is not a secular country. Why maintain this facade? The only way India can be in their good books is, if India allows unconditial access for evangelical organizations complete control to ethnically cleanse India village by village like they have done in South Korea.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 14 Aug 2009 18:07

No, it's time to admit that Kaangress is not a secular party practicing or promoting secularism, but a power-hungry Left-wing mafia with Politically Correct Thought Police organized around a dynastic Personality Cult. These people are dedicated to preserving their power by hook and by crook.

To claim that the Kaangress party's left-wing PC political platform is secular, would be laughable if it weren't so outrageous.

Likewise, the US isn't secular or ethnically unbiased in its foreign policy outlook. Foggy Bottom is an Atlanticist bastion, completely saturated with Euro-firsters. They don't care if Hindus get persecuted in Pakistan or Afghanistan. They only care about European interests.

They don't have credibility in this regard, nor should we acknowledge them as having any.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 14 Aug 2009 23:25

The US state Department has put India under the watch list of countries where Minorities are treated badly, India figures in a list of countries starting with Afganistan and ending with Somalia!

Which thread are we discussing this. I knew Obama was up to no good.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Aug 2009 23:36

It is time India starts criticizing USA because of their anti-Muslim policies all over the world. It is time that Indian filmmakers go all over Afghanistan and bring to light the horrors of the families who have lost their loved ones to American bombing raids. The world needs to know how innocent SHOs, Presidents, Prime Ministers in Pakistan have been raped and humiliated by Americans.

America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew {Just added that because it sounds good.}. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black {Has anybody seen how many blacks are rotting in American prisons? In India there are very few Africans in our prisons. Shame on America.}. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American. America is anti-Muslim. America is anti-Hindu. America is anti-Jew. America is anti-Buddhist. America is anti-Catholic. America is anti-Mormon. America is anti-Black. America is anti-Sikh. America is anti-Native.American.

Shame on America!

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 14 Aug 2009 23:44

There's no need to get worked up about it.

Just ignore it.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Aug 2009 23:47

Who is getting worked up?

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 14 Aug 2009 23:48

It is a tragedy that in India the minorities are running havoc by building 100 churches in one street and some small pockets of the majority act out of sheer frustration caused by the inaction of the Government at the center to protect their social fabric from being torn by outside influences.! This is comparing apples with oranges.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Aug 2009 23:52

If I remember well, there were attacks against Sikhs as well post 9/11, the Whites thinking they were Muslims. Now isn't that a reason to put America on a watchlist or something?

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 15 Aug 2009 00:13

I am sure there should be more if we start to dig up the filth there, there was a murder of an abortion doctor and i have heard of undocumented attacks on Mexicans and Africans, we need to start to dig all the filth on Uncle sam so he can smell his own ugly crack.

Lets not forget our favorite western country Australia, attack on students, minorities, muslims etc.,and they dont have half the problems we have here.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Aug 2009 00:17

New Threads:

Oppression of Minorities in United States of America?
Civilian Casualties from American Interventions abroad?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 15 Aug 2009 00:24

RajeshA wrote: It is time that Indian filmmakers go all over Afghanistan and bring to light the horrors of the families who have lost their loved ones to American bombing raids.

Many people have tried that in Iraq but it was of no use.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 15 Aug 2009 00:26

Good idea,may be we need to start documenting the causalities of the so called American precession guided weapons falling on civilians! Just like we have a thread to keep log of Terrorist attacks against India, we could have one to log all the indiscriminate killings USA does abroad. If the Admins approve we could go ahead.

Its a sickening thought that the Secretary of State,Hillary Clinton who is Pro India, was just here a few weeks back and now this, wonder if she is aware of it or i doubt if she has any real say over Obamas master plan.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 15 Aug 2009 00:28

^^ Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation

Also check the Archive of the above site.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Aug 2009 01:56

Holbrooke's India visit put off for second time

...
Holbrooke, special envoy to those two South Asian countries, is to visit both from Saturday, but will not come to India, as he did in April, because of "scheduling" problems.
...
Many Indian analysts and officials believe Washington is biased toward helping Pakistan -- an old US ally and a key partner in stabilising Afghanistan -- rather than India, which only in recent years moved closer to the United States.

Holbrooke has said he is not trying to mediate between India and Pakistan and that his visits to India were only to update New Delhi on regional policy developments.

"From that perspective India should be happy that it is being kept in the loop by the United States about what it is doing in Pakistan and Afghanistan," said former Indian Foreign Secretary Lalit Mansingh.
...

Satish Chandra, former Indian high commissioner (ambassador) to Pakistan said it was understandable that the United States needed to comfort Pakistan - its main partner in fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda.
...
He said the ice-breaking summit between the two countries last month in Egypt -- after formal talks were halted in the aftermath of the mass attack on Mumbai -- was staged at the prodding of Washington.

"Now he could have come to sell ideas on Kashmir -- how to move troops, reduce tension, giving satisfaction to Pakistan."
...

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 15 Aug 2009 06:10

Bravo India: Henry Kissinger

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 15 Aug 2009 11:12

American Hindus slam US report on India's secularism

A group of American Hindus in Washington has slammed a US panel on global religious freedom for placing India on its "watch list" for religious intolerance, saying that it shows the body's "innate bias, lack of insight".

Putting a question mark on the credibility of US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), the Hindu American Foundation (HAF) in a statement said, a closer look at the India designation shows the Commission's absence of understanding and loss of credibility.

Reacting to the HAF statement, USCIRF Chair Leonard Leo, said, "If people want a detached and balanced assessment of the facts, they should read the report for themselves and draw their own conclusions."

HAF charged USCIRF of indulging in personal vendetta as its members were denied visa by India early in 2009.

"Hindu Americans are wondering today if there is quid pro quo at work. The USCIRF was denied a visa this month to travel to India for a "fact-finding" trip," HAF said.

"But the Commission was clear that it would not visit Kashmir (because of threats by Muslim terrorists) nor the Northeast of India where militant Christian terrorists are displacing Hindus and fighting for separatism. It would not look into Hindu temple desecrations in Goa and other attacks," HAF charged.

"It only wanted to visit Gujarat and Orissa. The government of India said, "thanks, but no thanks." The USCIRF was outraged at the denial, and we can only ponder whether this was payback," HAF said.

Questioning its composition, HAF said, "Examine the makeup of the USCIRF, six members are Christian, one is Jewish and one Muslim. Not a single non-Abrahamic faith is represented. The chair is Vice President of the far-right Federalist Society, and another commissioner is an executive at the evangelical Southern Baptist Convention, which publishes material, which calls Hinduism's grand festival of Diwali "devil worship."

"Putting India on the watch list will be perceived as a self-defeating and egregious act that needlessly complicates relations between two diverse, pluralistic and secular democracies," it said.

HAF charged that in its 11 pages, USCIRF details two specific episodes to justify slamming India, riots between Hindus and Muslims in the state of Gujarat that broke out in 2002 and between Hindus and Christians that left 40 dead in the state of Orissa in 2008 after a Hindu priest was murdered.

"These episodes in a country of a billion condemn an entire nation. Incredibly, the Commission's India chapter paints a portrait of minority religions on the run in India, pursued by a rabid Hindu majority!" HAF said.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 15 Aug 2009 11:14

Orissa Christians reject US report on India's secularism

Orissa Christian leaders have rejected the report of the United States Commission for International Religious Freedom for questioning India's secular credentials and putting India in its 'watch list'.

In a statement, the president of the Orissa Minority Forum has called the report as most unfortunate, and one that lacks a proper understanding of the secular character of the country.

On Thursday, an American government body had snubbed India saying it doesn't take care of its minorities. The Indian government immediately shot back, saying American opinion doesn't matter.

The US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) placed India on its 'Watch List' for New Delhi's largely inadequate response in protecting its religious minorities.

In a statement, USCIRF said India earned the 'Watch List' designation due to the 'disturbing increase' in communal violence against religious minorities - specifically Christians in Orissa in 2008 and Muslims in Gujarat in 2002 - and the largely inadequate response from the Indian government to protect the rights of religious minorities.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 15 Aug 2009 11:48

Meanwhile in Secular America:

Shah Rukh Khan detained for 2 hours at Newark Airport in US

Actor Shah Rukh Khan detained for two hours at Newark Airport, New Jersey. He was in the US to celebrate India's Independence Day. He was released after Indian Embassy officials vouched for him.

Lets see what does Mahesh Bhatt types will do now.
Muslim/Non Muslim organizations in India should make an issue and lodge protest against this action with American Embassy.
CC a report to USCIRF.

SRK held at Newark-NJ airport, questioned

New Delhi: Superstar Shah Rukh Khan was reportedly detained at the Newark-New Jersey airport on Friday night when he was in transit to Chicago.

According to CNN-IBN Entertainment Editor Rajeev Masand, Khan – who was on his way to Chicago to attend the Indian Independence Day celebrations there – was detained by the airport officials for questioning.

It is, however, not clear why SRK was put under detention but Masand reported that he was allowed only one phone call during the period and was let off only after the intervention by Indian embassy officials.

Incidentally, Shah Rukh Khan’s upcoming releases include Karan Johar’s My Name is Khan which has jehad as its theme.

Fox STAR Studios will finance and distribute the film, reportedly spending Rs 100 crore (Rs 1 billion/$20 million) in the process.

Shah Rukh Khan is one the biggest and the most-recognised Indian stars and has been conferred a number of international honours and accolades.

In October 2008, Khan was conferred the Darjah Mulia Seri Melaka, the highest honour conferred in Malaysia, equivalent to "Sir" in British knighthood

He was also honoured with an honorary doctorate in arts and culture from Britain's University of Bedfordshire in 2009.

But its not the first time an Indian actor has been detained.

CELEB DETAINEES

Irrfan Khan was stopped for questioning not once but twice. The first time at Los Angeles airport. He was there to receive an Independent Spirit Award for The Namesake. The actor claims he was detained because he is a Muslim.

Neil Nitin Mukesh were also detained in a similar fashion but at New York airport, where he was scheduled to shoot for Yashraj film New York. Immigration Authorities allegedly stopped Neil because they couldn't believe he was from India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Aug 2009 12:39

he and the koffee karan gang will return to NYC yet again for their next film I would expect. he will return even if he gets mugged and then thrown in jail for a couple days on false charges.

such is the love for great khan among our 'elites'. there is no cure for their mental dhimmitude.

now if a buddhist or shinto police officer stops any khan in virar for speeding,
he will be all over the media next day alleging victimization because he is a muslim!

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 15 Aug 2009 13:48

The one word for rest of the world when its comes to describing US human rights abuses is pussycat. Everybody fears wrath of US believe it or not it is a fact.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Aug 2009 13:49

zeenews - lets see if he keeps his promises...

New Jersey: Bollywood superstar Shah Rukh Khan, who was detained for as long as two hours early on Saturday at the Newark airport in the US, thanks to his surname ‘Khan’, has reacted strongly to the episode calling it ‘uncalled for’.

Speaking exclusively to Zee News about the incident that has left him deeply saddened, Shah Rukh said, “I am devoid; it hurts your self respect. I don’t want to make an ego issue out of it but I think I would avoid coming to this place now.”

Further elaborating on the episode, Shah Rukh said, “I was made to answer silly questions which had no relation with a legal and a general interrogation. They didn’t let me use my phone for an hour. I was travelling alone as the US consulate hadn’t allowed a visa to my bodyguard who coincidentally has the same name. As it is I am quite reluctant in coming to the US and I would make sure that I avoid it in the future.”

When asked what he had to say about Ambika Soni’s statement on the issue where she had called for frisking laws to be made stringent for foreigners in India, “the way they are in US”, the actor said in a lighter vein, “Yes, perhaps that way you can frisk and grill Angelina Jolie too.”

“This has happened with me before and that’s why it concerns me all the more. As it is I shy away from coming to the US because I don’t want to participate in their paranoia about religion and everything that the US has developed into over the years. I don’t want to say that it happened because I am a Muslim as it may lead to something else, but I think it had something to do with that only. We can only avoid this by not coming to the US,” added Shah Rukh.

Suggesting what can be done to avoid such embarrassments, the actor said, “I guess they need to modify the system. I am sure they can do much better than this, being the advanced country America is.”

The actor ended up by saying, “This particular episode makes me appreciate our independence one million times more. I need an incident like this to strengthen my faith in God further. I am looking forward to coming back to my country.” (mine: now he says it)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Aug 2009 13:52

not all are afraid - brazil for instance under Lula sir had made the experience for US citizens as rough as the US makes it for brazilians. they take a while to grant business visas to US people and sometimes refuse for unknown reasons just as the US consulates do.

my wife's co has business in brazil and faces this issue often when sending people from HQ on business trips. they even asked if its feasible to fly her from india to brazil via europe instead - I nuked that idea ...let them deal with consequences of their govt policy

another thing which probably angers the brazilians is the next door comatose meltdown Munna's - chile and argentina both get tourist visa free entry.

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 15 Aug 2009 18:52

Another reason to use Bing over Goog. They have I-Day featured and Google couldn't even throw up a doodle.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 15 Aug 2009 20:56

Singha wrote:another thing which probably angers the brazilians is the next door comatose meltdown Munna's - chile and argentina both get tourist visa free entry.

probably because both Chile and Argentina have a white majority. US and other anglo-sax 'owned' states are just racist with some HR/70s pop/liberty facade.

In India if anyone wants to immigrate to US the most important set of papers is what relates to their bank balance. So basically a brown man needs to show his bank balance and a white guy or an honorary white (Jap) can get in by just proving their nationality.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Aug 2009 23:27

yes when the Indians have an economy equivalent to Japan's, Indians will become tanned whites in a jiffy. And I can't say I blame the whites or the Japanese. This is a big sore spot for East Asians in general-the potential whitity of Injuns.

Duniya mein sab se achchhi cheeze hai paisa.

(There is one exception, no matter how wealthy Muslims get, they will not be honourary whites, much as Pakistanis would like to flatter themselves. If you are reading this Ajaz Haider, flash your Green Passport at a pub in Englaand next time you visit).

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 16 Aug 2009 03:07

bahdada wrote:Another reason to use Bing over Goog. They have I-Day featured and Google couldn't even throw up a doodle.

To add to that, google also avoided Diwali while did not mind bending over for chini new year. I wonder if Indian heritage workers at google do anything if at all in matters like this.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Aug 2009 03:19

try typing in Patel etc in iPhone and it will fill in for you!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 16 Aug 2009 03:46

darshan wrote:[
To add to that, google also avoided Diwali while did not mind bending over for chini new year. I wonder if Indian heritage workers at google do anything if at all in matters like this.

Indian heritage workers in all likelihood would not even want to acknowledge the presence of other Indians in a massa work environment. They are very neutral onlee, unlike the harmonious Chinese genteel and educated, who openly converse in Mandarin even during sidebar chats during US government meetings.

Tell me which SDRE or even the TFTA variety from India would even dare do that. I have never heard anyone speak Hindi or Tamil loudly within ear-shot of Americans in the last 20 years of my experience in the US.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Aug 2009 04:04

I speak in desi with a Commander.

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 16 Aug 2009 05:14

Bade wrote:
darshan wrote:[
To add to that, google also avoided Diwali while did not mind bending over for chini new year. I wonder if Indian heritage workers at google do anything if at all in matters like this.
Indian heritage workers in all likelihood would not even want to acknowledge the presence of other Indians in a massa work environment. They are very neutral onlee, unlike the harmonious Chinese genteel and educated, who openly converse in Mandarin even during sidebar chats during US government meetings. Tell me which SDRE or even the TFTA variety from India would even dare do that. I have never heard anyone speak Hindi or Tamil loudly within ear-shot of Americans in the last 20 years of my experience in the US.

Bitter much? Heck, I remember we put up Telugu hallway signs in jest back when I was co-op'ing for Cisco because virtually everyone in our product group was from Andhra. It was lighthearted gesture of course since every desi there probably had a better understanding of English grammar than the 'natives'. Besides, being loud and obliviously obnoxious out in public isn't a desi trait anyways....

Bing's internals were developed primarily out of MS R&D India so this isn't surpring. Google too has a significant Indian headcount which is why I find their indifference to Indian festivals/holidays surprising.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 16 Aug 2009 07:26

USCIRF has something to say about India's treatment of religious minorities, but what does it have to say about US treatment?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 897426.cms

So after frisking respected former president Abdul Kalam, they are detaining bollywood star SRK.

Meanwhile, they are putting India on special religious persecution watchlists, while exempting Pakistan from such designations.

Where does that put US credibility on these issues? In the toilet, I'd say.

Does anybody have more info on the Brazilian measures taken in response to US behavior?
What has been done there?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Aug 2009 08:01

king khan did appear at the show. seemed to be a indo paki affair because one of
the sponsors names in the back panel was "sajid mir" .....

muscle khan stuck his knife in saying it was needed and thats why no terror attacks
in khanate since 911.

the third and final khan thankfully has better sense and offered no reaction.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 16 Aug 2009 11:41

It is always like that there will always be a Paki operator, ( I closely follow these tamashas in fliers and India Abroad, etc local desi papers) who is the conduit to Dawood Bhai via canada,Londonistan Dubai.....

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 16 Aug 2009 14:22

I think it was a deliberate action by the FBI Thugs. There are a lot of desi immigration afsars in EWR, and also desis working as interpreters etc, and all it would take is to just utter his name.

OR, maybe he was not wearing makeup