India-US News and Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8503
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 16 Aug 2009 18:12

One of the blogs out there said that SRK had an Indian passport with a Pakistani visa, flying British Airways coming from Londonistan, then add the name Khan and its sufficient grounds to raise questioning. I don't blame the afsar for detaining SRK for questioning - if I saw a TSP visa, I'd do the same even if it was big B.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Shreeman » 16 Aug 2009 19:23

There appears to be a strong strong under current to restore things to where they stood in first bill clinton regime, perhaps with the help of our chinese friends in government here. all these little immigration things are just part of that. there are too many dots being drawn at the same time so it should not be this hard to connect. the idea is to make things progressively bad until the other side makes a mistake or does something comparably stupid.

rohiths
BRFite
Posts: 399
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 21:51

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby rohiths » 16 Aug 2009 20:15

SRK's detention is good in a way.
It will make aam admi suspicious of US and MMS will find it extra hard to get away with dhimmitude.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4127
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 16 Aug 2009 22:04

more SRK news
The allegations "happen to be incorrect," US Customs and Border Protection spokesman Elmer Camacho said, adding Khan was inspected because his baggage had not arrived.

Part of the inspection process is to examine the baggage. However his bags were not available due to the airline not
loading them on the flight he arrived on, the spokesman said.


Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 16 Aug 2009 22:21

darshan wrote:
bahdada wrote:Another reason to use Bing over Goog. They have I-Day featured and Google couldn't even throw up a doodle. :mrgreen:


To add to that, google also avoided Diwali while did not mind bending over for chini new year. I wonder if Indian heritage workers at google do anything if at all in matters like this.

google did have a diwali logo.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 16 Aug 2009 22:23

Sanjay M wrote:Does anybody have more info on the Brazilian measures taken in response to US behavior? What has been done there?


Remember this?
SAO PAULO, Brazil (Reuters) - Police at Sao Paulo's airport were deluged with calls of congratulations on Thursday for arresting an American Airlines pilot who made an obscene gesture while being photographed by immigration officials as part of a policy that has soured U.S.-Brazilian relations.

The pilot, Dale Robin Hersh, 52, who was arrested for raising his middle figure in a photograph that was splashed across Brazilian newspapers, was fined nearly $13,000 before being allowed to leave the country, officials said.

The American pilot's defiant gesture brought renewed focus to a new Brazilian policy of fingerprinting and photographing all U.S. visitors in retaliation for a similar measure introduced by the United States for many foreigners.

In Brazil's capital Brasilia, vandals had spray-painted the words, "Fingerprint the Yankees" on the side of a memorial to former president Juscelino Kubitschek.

Veronique Genevieve Claude, an official at the court where Hersh's case was heard, said the pilot had paid a $12,775 fine and was free to leave the country.

U.S. passport holders have been subjected to long lines at Brazilian ports of entry since the new controls were implemented, prompting Secretary of State Colin Powell to complain that Americans were being discriminated against.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 16 Aug 2009 22:25

If you are a US citizen, living in or visiting Buenos Aires, and you need to visit Brazil, there are some steps you’ll need to go through to get a visa. You may be aware that Brazil’s visa policies (and fees) are a retaliatory response to the Visa fees that the US imposes on Brazilian citizens who want to visit the US. On the Argentina Brazilian Consulate website, it even states that the USD $130 fee (as of October 2008) is a reciprocial fee equivalent to the US charge.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 16 Aug 2009 22:28

ramana wrote:I speak in desi with a Commander.


I concur... at work I speak in Telugu with telugu guys (ofcourse not in meetings)... during lunch hour, even if a khan is part of the group, we continue to talk in telugu. They are welcome to leave :twisted:

I also correct desis everytime they make infactual/prejudicial comments about Bharat, even if it sounds argumentative. My POV is that the group should know that an alternative nationalistic reasoning exists for everything they (think) know about desh.

The otherday, we were in a meeting and a Malayali-Xtian and Tamil-Xtian talking about numerous languages in India with some khans. And they joked that they would never accept Hindi but would rather converse in English. I pointed them that good% of their state-zins speak Hindi and all their hindu scriptures are still in Sanskrit. Their love for english is more to do with their lack of Hindi-skills. Once they learn Hindi, they would enjoy their conversations with the other Indians and they are missing lot of fun by not knowing Hindi.

The point is reasonable assertiveness.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 16 Aug 2009 22:32

Sanjay M wrote:USCIRF has something to say about India's treatment of religious minorities, but what does it have to say about US treatment?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 897426.cms

So after frisking respected former president Abdul Kalam, they are detaining bollywood star SRK.


They will learn their mistake soon.

INC might not mind Kalam-jis episode because he doesn't have victim mentality. Khan-saab has access to desi media and they will "create" the necessary victim-spin khan saab. More over Sharukh has mass following throughout India.

I hope he starts some non-cooperation movement or Quit-America movement based on this episode...

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 16 Aug 2009 22:36

Mort Walker wrote:One of the blogs out there said that SRK had an Indian passport with a Pakistani visa, flying British Airways coming from Londonistan, then add the name Khan and its sufficient grounds to raise questioning. I don't blame the afsar for detaining SRK for questioning - if I saw a TSP visa, I'd do the same even if it was big B.


My reasoning is this. If Kalam-ji was frisked for being Muslim, and G'Fernandez got frisked for being a BJP minister, SRK must be frisked for many obvious reasons, including Bollywoods alleged relationship with Dawoood. IMVHO he should be put thru atleast 3 levels of frisking one after the other.

Everything is a fair game in the name of security.

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Sanjay M » 16 Aug 2009 22:44

RamaY wrote:They will learn their mistake soon.

INC might not mind Kalam-jis episode because he doesn't have victim mentality. Khan-saab has access to desi media and they will "create" the necessary victim-spin khan saab. More over Sharukh has mass following throughout India.

I hope he starts some non-cooperation movement or Quit-America movement based on this episode...


And yet notice that it takes the detention of a Muslim Indian to raise hackles in India. If it had been a mere run-of-the-mill Hindu being detained, nobody would even care. Hindus suffer such indignities in Muslim countries all the time.

Meanwhile, read this strange bit of news - US conservative icon Newt Gingrich has converted to Catholicism:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 97,00.html

Bush's brother Jeb is also a convert to Catholicism. UK's Tony Blair recently converted. The ghost of Guy Fawkes must be laughing from beyond the grave.

Is Protestantism collapsing?
Does the future of western civilization and Christianity inexorably mean returning back to its mother sect?
Will even the Russians be absorbed back too, like the Ukrainians before them?

I'm sure the Atlanticists will be gleeful to see their influence expanding.
Last edited by Sanjay M on 16 Aug 2009 22:46, edited 1 time in total.

karthik
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 22 Sep 2000 11:31
Location: chennai

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby karthik » 16 Aug 2009 22:46

Is Sharuk Khan even a muslim name? I thought Khan was a mongol name and Sharuk sounds like central asian? not sure, but it isn't an Arabic name!

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Sanjay M » 16 Aug 2009 23:57

The nostrilled one claims to be whatever best strokes his own ego at that moment. Sometimes masquerading in an Indian Army uniform, sometimes calling himself a Pathan, sometimes a Muslim first, sometimes a wandering artiste, etc, etc.

"My Name is Khan" -- who most famously said this first?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOti_5fWE9c#t=7m37s

Ah, these detainees - so testy and irritable...




darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2186
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby darshan » 17 Aug 2009 00:59

Rahul M wrote:google did have a diwali logo.


Sorry but I disagree. Ever since I saw chini new year logo three years ago, I check google on every Hindu festival and I have not seen it once. And, I check it from US side. I do not know if it shows up differently if your IP is somewhere else.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 17 Aug 2009 01:06

could have been for the .in only. but I vaguely remember BRFites from canada speaking of a diwali logo too.

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1391
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Kati » 17 Aug 2009 02:52

darshan wrote:
Rahul M wrote:google did have a diwali logo.


Sorry but I disagree. Ever since I saw chini new year logo three years ago, I check google on every Hindu festival and I have not seen it once. And, I check it from US side. I do not know if it shows up differently if your IP is somewhere else.


I don't think Google(US) had the Diwali logo, rather yahoo(US) had it.

Google has been adding a lot of chinko staff lately to take on Baidu (which has about 60% market share in China, whereas Google(China) has about 25% only). May be this chinko staff dependence made google show Arunachal as part of China which was picked up by ToI, and later Google apologized.

How come Shabana AQzmi, Arundhati Roy aren't going ballastic over SRK's detention? Oh, they are already on unkil's payroll, I see!

I hope SRK's case is taken up by the middle-east media and gets a good coverage. Is is also
going to help in GoI's psy-op against unkil. ... The incident can be exploited for a huge mileage by the GoI if it is handled properly. ....

asprinzl
BRFite
Posts: 408
Joined: 08 Sep 2004 05:00

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby asprinzl » 17 Aug 2009 04:17

I have a motto which I put to practise all the time. If I don't like the way certain people in certain places treat me I will avoid such people and such places. Have anyone visited Russia? Seeing is believing how the Russians treat most foreigners (regardless of color, religion etc). Indians visiting Russia are no exception regardless of all-weather friend or not. All I hear is deafening silence on this account. Has anyone seen how Indian, Pakistani, B-deshi, Sri Lankan workers go through massive indignities in the hands of gulf peons, Arab police, Iraqi clerks and Egyptian engineers in Dubai, Qatar, Saudi etc? Why this is not raised by any Indian ministers? Is it because American officialdom is more sensitive to media outrage than officials from other countries? I go through situations like that too but for me....so what? If it ensures that I will land safely at my destination due to this several minutes of discomfort...I don't care.

I see all the throughness with which Israeli security officers do their job at Israel airport. It is to ensure Israeli security. If people who come to Israel are not comfortable with that then I don't want them to come to Israel. They can always visit Egypt or Syria where they may be treated like kings and queens with red carpet rolled at the airport.

It is American territory. They were hit by the terrorists and some 3000 thousand people died with an economic cost in the billions. They are doing their hap-hazard best to prevent another.

It all boils down to this plain hard fact: Does India need America more than America needs India or the other way around? Going the Brazil route may stoke the ego of the Brazillions momentarily but in the long run the Brazillians need the US more than the US needs Brazil.

I think India should implement rigid security procedures too not as riposte but to genuinely ensure Indian security to ensure last November's incident does not repeat.
Avram

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4127
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 17 Aug 2009 04:27

asprinzl wrote:I have a motto which I put to practise all the time. If I don't like the way certain people in certain places treat me I will avoid such people and such places. Have anyone visited Russia? Seeing is believing how the Russians treat most foreigners (regardless of color, religion etc). Indians visiting Russia are no exception regardless of all-weather friend or not. All I hear is deafening silence on this account. Has anyone seen how Indian, Pakistani, B-deshi, Sri Lankan workers go through massive indignities in the hands of gulf peons, Arab police, Iraqi clerks and Egyptian engineers in Dubai, Qatar, Saudi etc? Why this is not raised by any Indian ministers? Is it because American officialdom is more sensitive to media outrage than officials from other countries? I go through situations like that too but for me....so what? If it ensures that I will land safely at my destination due to this several minutes of discomfort...I don't care.
Avram


This has to be part of DIE thread IMHO. will x-post.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Shreeman » 17 Aug 2009 04:32

asprinzl wrote:I have a motto which I put to ...

Avram


Avram, this is a smokescreen. Below nuisance value things like this that they can deny/explain, a lot of people's rights are being trampled under vague rules and regulations. The wider discrimination that has nothing to do with security, goes on unnoticed. I don't know if this is the new obama plan, or if the chinese influence runs so deep, but let me repeat that things are accelerating in the direction of the early 90s.

Having said that, in today's environment, its probably for a better outcome. Your principal, in general, is quite sound.

Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 17 Aug 2009 04:46

asprinzl wrote:
I have a motto which I put to practise all the time. If I don't like the way certain people in certain places treat me I will avoid such people and such places.

Agreed .
I see all the throughness with which Israeli security officers do their job at Israel airport. It is to ensure Israeli security. If people who come to Israel are not comfortable with that then I don't want them to come to Israel.

Agreed.
It is American territory. They were hit by the terrorists and some 3000 thousand people died with an economic cost in the billions. They are doing their hap-hazard best to prevent another.

They knew it's going to happen and did zilch about it.How many lives have americans taken in the name of democracy and human rights?They din kill the Laden so far. :mrgreen: By the way, where was Al-Qaeda in Iraq? Since i took money from Laden's father, i will kill Saddam. :rotfl: War on Terror... :mrgreen:

It all boils down to this plain hard fact: Does India need America more than America needs India or the other way around? Going the Brazil route may stoke the ego of the Brazillions momentarily but in the long run the Brazillians need the US more than the US needs Brazil.

The mighty US does not need anyone, can defeat the whole world alone , then why NATO ?Why bribe pakistan ? It's supposed to do it all alone.

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1391
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Kati » 17 Aug 2009 09:56

So had it been any non-muslim guy, instead of SRK, the US amb wouldn't have waded into the matter ......

Sobriety after a day in a tizzy
K.P. NAYAR , The Telegraph, Aug 17, 2009

Washington, Aug. 16: The storm in a teacup over Shah Rukh Khan’s “secondary inspection” by immigration officials at Newark’s Liberty International Airport is an example of the constant conflict between common sense and the lack of it in enforcing rules, which frustrates people from the Orient almost every day in the US.

The refusal by immigration officials to clear Khan across the counter at Liberty Airport’s “point of entry” overwhelmed Saturday’s independence day celebrations from Washington state on America's west coast to the national capital city of Washington in the east.

On the face of it, immigration officials in Newark did nothing wrong.

In April last year, in an incident that was written about only in The Telegraph, then finance minister P. Chidambaram was frisked and searched at the airport when he was leaving Washington after attending the spring meetings of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

With quiet dignity, Chidambaram has since skipped Fund-Bank meetings and refused to come to Washington by a regular commercial flight that leaves him open to such violation of US protocol.

In the new government, he has been determinedly dragging his feet about visiting Washington for bilateral talks as union home minister.

The fact of the incident, however, as this correspondent discovered, was that protocol officials erred and sent the required papers exempting the then finance minister from routine security check to an airport in the national capital area which was different from the one Chidambaram was exiting through.

Unlike a cabinet minister, who is exempt under US protocol from the norms of air travel that applies to the public, Khan is a mere passenger and an arriving alien in the US like any other.

Yet, the new US ambassador to India, Timothy Roemer, issued a statement praising Khan and insisting that he is a “global icon... very welcome guest in the US” for two reasons.

It is extremely unusual for an ambassador or a US embassy to comment on an individual immigration matter. But this is Roemer’s first formal week on the job after presenting his credentials to Rashtrapati Bhavan five days ago and the Khan incident is a useful introductory lesson for the envoy on the ways of India.

It is equally unusual for an embassy and the state department to act with such haste on a Saturday to be able to issue any statement at all on a matter that, after all, falls far short in gravity than, say, a break in US diplomatic relations with another country.

Roemer waded into the Khan affair because, in one sweep, it nullified a carefully planned effort by the secretary of state Hillary Clinton to advertise that the Obama administration is “palling around” with Muslims in South Asia when she appeared with Bollywood actor Aamir Khan at Mumbai’s St. Xavier College on July 18 on a programme that was nationally televised in India and was watched widely in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and the Gulf states.

US President Barack Obama has been personally engaged in efforts to change the perception of the US among Muslims worldwide and the fallout of Saturday’s incident at Newark is a significant setback in publicity terms to those efforts.

Twenty four hours after the incident, reports here are that Khan is much more sanguine about it in the realisation that no rules were broken and that the only damage from the incident was to his own perception of his VIP status.

Khan told reporters in Chicago that what happened at the airport was “a procedure that needs to be followed, but an unfortunate procedure”.

Adding to his belated sobriety was perhaps a realisation that British Airways, on which Khan flew into Newark, was as much responsible for the actor's inconvenience as US immigration officials.

According to US customs spokesman Elmer Camacho, Khan would have been cleared without the 66-minute hold-up during a second inspection of his papers if the airline had not lost his baggage.

Passengers who are sent for secondary inspection are also subject to a detailed customs examination as part of the process.

In the end, it was a failure of common sense that was responsible for the brouhaha because the immigration agent could have admitted Khan into the US after several of his own colleagues vouched for his identity.

But the official stubbornly stuck to his book of instructions without realising that the only outcome of the incident is a reinforcement of the perception that the US is anti-Muslim in South Asia and the Gulf, areas where Obama desperately needs that perception to change.


AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby AnimeshP » 17 Aug 2009 10:04

Govt to Holbrooke: Can’t just walk in and out of India

The foreign office has told Holbrooke in very polite diplomatic terms that he cannot walk in and out of India at will. Holbrooke, senior officials said, had a habit of unilaterally deciding when he wanted to come to India and then demanding to see his top foreign policy interlocutors.

The MEA found it offensive, to say the least. Consequently, Holbrooke has discovered that soon after he announces to the world about his India travel plans, the relevant officials are invariably unavailable.


Looks like our MEA babuz are quite adept at cutting people down to size .... 8)

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby derkonig » 17 Aug 2009 13:43

Are people noting that SRK these days sports the keffiyeh in public appearances? Few things scream 'terrorist' as loudly as the paleostinian keffiyeh.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby harbans » 17 Aug 2009 13:47

For all those going about the SRK thing, here's a very interesting read:

How Islamist author got past US immigration
Venkatesan Vembu / DNA
Monday, August 17, 2009 3:00 IST

Hong Kong: Pakistan-born Islamist scholar and writer Ziauddin Sardar isn't, of course, half as recognisable as actor Shah Rukh Khan. And yet back in 2002, when the London-based co-author of -- among other books -- Why Do People Hate America? was asked to step away from the immigration queue at New York and subjected to an identity check, Sardar had a fairly unique experience.

Here's his account, in his own words: "The book Why do People Hate America? came out in March 2002, barely six months after the 9/11 terrorist attack. It is an exploration of the reasons for anti-American sentiments in many parts of the Islamic world, and I travelled to the US in April 2002 to promote it.

My American publisher came all the way to London to take me back with him. He was understandably nervous, given the atmosphere at that time, and told me, "While at the immigration counter, whatever you do, don't say you're the author of Why Do People Hate America?"

We got to New York, and when my passport was presented to the immigration officer, he asked me where I was born. "In Pakistan," I responded. He said, "Oh! You'll have to take a bit of a detour, I'm afraid."

The officer then called someone else, and my passport was put in a bag, and I was marched off to a small room on the side. At the head of a room there was a platform, and there was a big-built guy with a crew-cut, who looked like a caricature of the conservative right-wing nut. Things didn't look too good.

My passport was given to him, and I was told to sit down. For over an hour he tried to match my photograph against an online database -- perhaps of suspected terrorists -- but of course nothing turned up. After an hour, another man came in with a wad of photocopies with more photographs of suspected terrorists. I watched helplessly as the big-built man began matching my photos with those on each of those photocopies, one after another.

I realised this could take hours, so I went up to him, and said, "Sir, this could take very long, and you don't really need to do that. You know, I am a very famous man!" He looked at me quizzically and said, "What do you mean?" I told him that I was an author and media personality and that in London, where I appeared on TV frequently, people would recognise me wherever I went.

He mulled on this, and then asked me if I had a website. I said I didn't have a personal website, but that if he Googled my name, he would get many results. "How many hits will I get?" he asked me. I responded that depending on the day, he would get up to half a million results. He Googled my name -- and of course the first result that popped up said I was the author of Why Do People Hate America?

He asked me, "Did you write this book?" I responded that I had indeed. To which he said: "Why didn't you say so in the first place? We could have sorted it out rightaway... And as for your book, I can't believe it has taken so long for people to hate America!"
He then stamped my passport, and said, "Off you go!" and off I went.


http://www.hotklix.com/link/news/world/ ... mmigration

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3284
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Tanaji » 17 Aug 2009 14:53

I concur... at work I speak in Telugu with telugu guys (ofcourse not in meetings)... during lunch hour, even if a khan is part of the group, we continue to talk in telugu.


I will bite:

I find this irritating. I have suffered similarly on many occasions before in the US. The first 2 times (after being invited to lunch), the entire party of 7 people conversed between themselves in rapid Telugu of which I cant understand a word. Apart from occasional sentences, I pretty much ate in silence on both times. The next time the said worthies invited me again I politely declined. On other occasions I have calmly excused myself and taken my dinner tray to another table.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 17 Aug 2009 15:27

>>Looks like our MEA babuz are quite adept at cutting people down to size

Like you wouldn't believe... and there are many ways of doing this
And we never forget also... which makes matters worse... sometimes i understand a slight is paid back with interest a decade later...

Holebrooke is an OK guy. He just needs to understand the boundaries...

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9252
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 17 Aug 2009 16:25

Tanaji wrote:I find this irritating. I have suffered similarly on many occasions before in the US. The first 2 times (after being invited to lunch), the entire party of 7 people conversed between themselves in rapid Telugu of which I cant understand a word. Apart from occasional sentences, I pretty much ate in silence on both times. The next time the said worthies invited me again I politely declined. On other occasions I have calmly excused myself and taken my dinner tray to another table.


Interesting. Did you let the gult folks know that you're feeling left out or did they do it just to slight you? Just wondering. The gults I have known are polite to a fault, a tad too shy for their own good and generally gentlemen at heart. IMVVHO only.

I recall a similar situ with a group of bong friends in Calcutta in my student days. Those guys couldn't help slip into bangla. I let them know it would be nice to use hindi occasionally and they, true to form really tried to oblige. Good fun on all sides. But then bangla is actually easily discernable, so close it is to sanskrit only.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3284
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Tanaji » 17 Aug 2009 16:37

Actually, it happened to me on 4-5 occasions. Thrice it was with Telugu speaking groups and once with Mandarin speakers... I don't know believe it was on purpose, the people were really nice otherwise. I guess they cant help it, but it is very irritating to (me) at least. If you know someone doesn't speak the language after inviting him to lunch , the least you can do is to at least make an effort to speak at least 30-40% of the time in the mutual language. I accept that majority of the times you will lapse into your language, but this was too much.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20797
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 17 Aug 2009 18:02

Gentlemen,the US is a barbarian nation,a veritable "baby" having been founded only 200+ years ago.How can it possibly compare with the great Indian civilisation,where the underwater ruins of buildings at Poompuhar alone have been carbon-dated to 11,000 BC! The tsunami brought another marvellous find at Mahabalipuram,sightings (when the sea receded)hundreds of yards into the sea,structures/temples and a collapsed temple near the shore temple was also found.Underwater ruins of Dwarka also show that Indian civilisation along its coast stretched back at least 15,000 years.We have seen empires and invaders come and go,but "INDIA" has overcome all of them and survived intact.The nations of the sub-continent also share in this great history and heritage.Even Pak,if it did not try and find another identity for itself post-parttion,would be able to say "boo" to the barbarian American diplomutts.

The Americans,or rather the "White Man", massacred and banished those "noble savages",the American Indian into so-called reservations-in reality rural ghettoes,sending the buffalo also into extinction.The Indians could not hunt the buffalo-just enough to feed themselves and not for sport,and be part of nature as they had been for thousands of years.Various civilisations around the world are far older,by thousands of years than the US and rightly did the Japanese call the white men "barbarians".Even Gandhi when asked what he thought of "European civilisation" ,said that "it would be a good idea"! WW1 and WW2 bear him out.

However,we must be fair to their founding fathers,Gen.Washington and Co.,who gave us such a marvellous US Constitution,one of mankind's greatest attempts at creating a new order of governance where all men are treated equal.If Washington and his colleagues who drew up the Constitution of the US were its mid-wives at its "birth",Abraham Lincoln got the US to "stand up" for the first time when it abolished slavery.The mental block has however continued to this day,until the US took its "first step" as a child nation,electing a black man,Obama,into the White House.It however has miles and miles to go and this first step does not remove from it its deeprooted prejudices and racism.

Many years ago,during the '60s,my uncle a distinguished doctor in one of our famous hospitals,migrated to the US.At immigration he found two signs,one for "whites" and the other for blacks".He took his family into the "black" queue and was politely told by the immigration offcer that he was standing in the wrong queue.An understandable mistake as he was tall,fair and had red hair (so did the family) and a very Italian sounding European surname.My uncle relplied that "we are all Indians" and went back to the "black" queue.He never stood in a white man's queue ever.Poor Mr.Khan has just tasted the latest indignity that the American whiteman has given the world,the intolerance of anyone who carries a Muslim name,or looks like a Muslim.We know of the two Sikhs who were arrested in the aftermath of 9/11.Earlier our former pres. Abdul Kalam,was humiliated by a US airline and now our top Bollywood star.

The next time Bill Clinton,Holbrooke or "JAWS" (Robin Raphael) comes a-calling,should we should test them for AIDS?

PS:Should the Muslim world also treat as terrorists any whiteman who has a name of any of the former "Crusaders"?

Chinmayanand
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2585
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:01
Location: Mansarovar
Contact:

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 17 Aug 2009 18:26

Philip wrote:The next time Bill Clinton,Holbrooke or "JAWS" (Robin Raphael) comes a-calling,should we should test them for AIDS?


For genital warts as well... if they are coming form good old bakistan :|

tripathi
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 12:35

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby tripathi » 17 Aug 2009 18:35

RamaY wrote:INC might not mind Kalam-jis episode because he doesn't have victim mentality.


INC wont mind coz Kalamji was BJP elected president. :roll:

KaranR
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 22 Jan 2009 00:28

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby KaranR » 17 Aug 2009 22:06

karthik wrote:Is Sharuk Khan even a muslim name? I thought Khan was a mongol name and Sharuk sounds like central asian? not sure, but it isn't an Arabic name!


“Khan” means ruler of the world etc. Muslim added this name after he slaughtered most of the Isalmic world.The ancient surname Khan is a contracted form of Khagan, from the Turkish khan meaning "chief or ruler." It was originally a hereditary title born by early Mongol leaders, such as the legendary Genghis Khan, but is now widely used as a surname throughout the Muslim world. Khan is an especially common surname in South Asian Muslim families, and is also one of the most common surnames in Pakistan.
Pakistanis or the Indian Muslim like to use it; for it remind them of Mughals Empire and make them feel superior. Mughals were never related to Gengis Khan!

Shahrukh or Shah – rukh; Shah meaning king and Rukh meaning face. It’s an Afghan origin.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby harbans » 17 Aug 2009 22:25

Mughals were never related to Gengis Khan!

Genghis left his progeny in lots of parts of the world. He was a massive womanizer. Paki's are once again saying their ancestors were raped by Genghis and they are the proud progeny of rape and conquest.

atma
BRFite
Posts: 169
Joined: 04 Jun 2006 23:37
Location: Frozen Tundra

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby atma » 17 Aug 2009 23:06

Meanwhile, Newsweek talks of the hindufication of Amir Khan

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7089
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 17 Aug 2009 23:16

atma wrote:Meanwhile, Newsweek talks of the hindufication of Amir Khan

http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155


The article is helpful for evangelization of India. Excellent psyops on dhimmi hindus. However, I liked the comments and they give some hope for Hinduism's survival.

karthik
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 22 Sep 2000 11:31
Location: chennai

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby karthik » 17 Aug 2009 23:23

All this is good to read theoretically but if you go to the US, they cant even pronounce your name let alone know about your philosophy, they are really quite ignorant about other cultures. Its very far fetched to imagine that they would lean towards the east anytime soon.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16144
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 17 Aug 2009 23:49

^^^^
Learning to pronounce a name has nothing to do with understanding a particular concept - be it Western or Eastern. It is generally easy to chastise Amir Khans of not knowing other cultures. One would be surprised on the knowledge some of them about other cultures. It is easy to stereotype. For that matter, even INdians can not say names from other parts of India correctly.

Manny
BRFite
Posts: 850
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 22:16
Location: Texas

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Manny » 17 Aug 2009 23:50

karthik wrote:All this is good to read theoretically but if you go to the US, they cant even pronounce your name let alone know about your philosophy, they are really quite ignorant about other cultures. Its very far fetched to imagine that they would lean towards the east anytime soon.


I always wondered why India is India and America is America. Aren't Indians as intelligent as Americans are? Why then can't India solve its own problems. The book "Democracy in America" by Toquville pretty much explains the cultural differences which have inhibited India from taking care of itself.


Let me give you a vivid example. When I came to America I first lived in Pennsylvania. I noticed that the local news is watched more often than national or International news. (Local news = 1 hr, National news = 30min) Including in the local newspapers. There was hardly anything about national level news let alone international affairs. and I came to a logical conclusion that Americans are not worldly. They are too parochial and ignorant about others around the world. Indians on the other hand are generally more knowledgeable about the world (Atleast the ones who have been to school/colleges)

It took me two years to realize, that it is true. My initial impression was right. Americans are not worldly. But then it was an epiphany for me that what I thought was a weakness is actually the strength of America and the weakness of India, People here care more about their immediate neighborhood and local affairs first than something that may happen 15000 miles away where these folks have hardly any influence. While a BBC Radio listening Indian may argue and pontificate about the morality of What Israel is doing in Palestine and what not, is most likely clueless about the crime rate in his own neighborhood. He would not be vested in any local affirs like what is happening around his immediate locale. Then I thought, IF you cannot even take care of yourself and your immediate neighbor around you WTF are you pontificating about the immorality of conflicts around the world and taking positions on issue where you freak have no influence of any kind! WTF!

See. What we perceive as weakness of Americans may indeed be their strength. ;)

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby harbans » 18 Aug 2009 00:05

Reminds me a few years ago i had an argument with Americans on an American forum on these grounds. They were criticizing Hinduism while i was saying they are turning Hindu. Yoga, tolerance of other religions, debate on spiriual issues without fear, reincarnation..

Anyways welcome to see such an article. Comments section i could make out the Pakis instantly..vomiting Brahmin, caste cows and snakes almost in a blurr of frothy hatred..claimed he was an Indian Hindu too, so he knew what Brahmin Hindu was. :mrgreen:

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Sanku » 18 Aug 2009 00:09

Manny wrote:See. What we perceive as weakness of Americans may indeed be their strength. ;)


What you point out is actually symptomatic of a very common mistake many Indians make on going to US, when a average Indian goes to US, he goes from the elite subset to the common subset. However given the difference in material condition and the condition which equates material strength to culture and civilization fails to see that the US that he has gained entry to is the common working mens US.

This is not the US of Boston Brahmin drawing rooms, of Southern states and multimillion dollor trust funds. This is not the US of boards of Shell and Haliburton.

They care about what happens outside US. In fact as % of population I can quite easily claim that US citizens know more about cultures outside than Indians.

It is just that most Indians think they have achieved heaven when then are still actually cleaning the floors in the scheme of things in US.

To compare, actually compare the India TV watching plumber in India and then lets actually see who cares more about locality.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests