India-China News and Discussion

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 31 Aug 2009 22:11

BijuShet wrote: Stop believing & spreading the lies dude and open your mind.

Wiki Link on : List of countries by life expectancy

Code: Select all

Rank by UN ==| Rank by =| ==============| Overall life ========| Male life ===========| Female life 
member state | Entity ==| Country ======| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth   
-------------|----------|---------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------
78 ==========| 105 =====| PRC(mainland)=| 73.47 ===============| 71.61 ===============| 75.52 
115 =========| 145 =====| India ========| 69.89 ===============| 67.46 ===============| 72.61

also wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 31 Aug 2009 22:25

What good is communism when majority can not get medical treatment...communism is for keeping only CCP in good health..

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 31 Aug 2009 22:34

durgesh wrote:What good is communism when majority can not get medical treatment...communism is for keeping only CCP in good health..

" expensive education fees of Kids, unaffordable houses and expensive medical care" are the 3 heaviest economy burden of ordinary Chinese now.

chinese call them " the new 3 heavy mountains".

In 1949,Mao called "Imperialism,Feudalism and Capitalsim" are the "3 heavy mountains" that suppress Chinese people.

For example.

the average salary in my city is only about 2000 RMB( about 14000 rupees)/month.

However, the the price of houses here is about 3000-4000 RMB(about 21000-28000 rupees)/per square meters. one 120-Squaremeter-large appartment here cost about 400,000 RMB(about 2.8 million rupees).
if one odinary chinese couple here buy such one appartment, then 50% of the couple's income has to pay the bank loan. the couple will have to live on only about the rest of their salary,,that is , about 2000 RMB( about 14000 rupees)/month.... with it, their life will be very hard.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Sep 2009 00:50

Liu wrote:
BijuShet wrote: Stop believing & spreading the lies dude and open your mind.
Wiki Link on : List of countries by life expectancy
Code: Select all
Rank by UN ==| Rank by =| ==============| Overall life ========| Male life ===========| Female life 
member state | Entity ==| Country ======| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth   
-------------|----------|---------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------
78 ==========| 105 =====| PRC(mainland)=| 73.47 ===============| 71.61 ===============| 75.52 
115 =========| 145 =====| India ========| 69.89 ===============| 67.46 ===============| 72.61
also wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy
http://i3.6.cn/cvbnm/73/52/99/4f094dfc4 ... bfcea2.jpg
http://i3.6.cn/cvbnm/77/c6/10/ae66ce960 ... faa64c.jpg

Note that the data you posted is a 5-year average starting 2005, whereas what BijuShet posted is 2009 data, and therefore more relevant.

Since you're referring to the same website, in other words, you're telling us that:
* India's average life expectancy is close to 70 years now.
* It is within 3.5 years of that of China's data, as opposed to the 10 years you quoted.
* India's data increased significantly in the last half a decade, using 2009 data vs older 5 year average.
* Chinese 2009 life expectancy data shows a mere 0.5 year improvement over their 2005-10 average, effectively no progress.

Ok, thanks

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 01 Sep 2009 00:56

Suraj wrote: Note that the data you posted is a 5-year average starting 2005, whereas what BijuShet posted is 2009 data, and therefore more relevant.

Since you're referring to the same website, in other words, you're telling us that:
* India's average life expectancy is close to 70 years now.
* It is within 3.5 years of that of China's data, as opposed to the 10 years you quoted.
* India's data increased significantly in the last half a decade, using 2009 data vs older 5 year average.
* Chinese 2009 life expectancy data shows a mere 0.5 year improvement over their 2005-10 average, effectively no progress.

Ok, thanks

Thank you Surajsaar for putting the message across in a succint and eloquent manner.

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 01 Sep 2009 02:27

Liu,

Good info from your side.
Can you let me know how popular Amitabha is in China or your city/province. As per my discussions with expat mainland Chinese, Amitabha is even more popular than Buddha in China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit%C4%81bha
And also why aren't more Chinese visiting the birth place of Buddhism in India?
If influence of Amitabha increases in China and that of Godlessness decreases, wouldn't it become more friendly towards India?
It's quite interesting that Amitabh is considered a Movie God in India and Amitabha is considered an actual God in China.

Liu wrote:
" expensive education fees of Kids, unaffordable houses and expensive medical care" are the 3 heaviest economy burden of ordinary Chinese now.

chinese call them " the new 3 heavy mountains".

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 01 Sep 2009 02:55

Liu wrote:
vaman wrote: many indians have been imaging that China were a huge Gulags since PRC was founded in 1949.

I can raise my voice against Gandhi or the current PM. heck, everyone in this forum does it regularly and that too in not so nice terms. Can you do that even if you want to?

after 2000,some wise Indians started to rethink why "democratic India" lag far behind "Gulag-like CHina", but guys like seem to still refuse any rethinking .....

Democracy can have muiltiple threads of thoughts. Thoughts about democracy is not "rethinking" in the chinese politburo sense. If that thought you liked was strong enough to influence voters, it would have been nearly a rethink. But sadly, China politics of fear is no role model for anyone and anything associated with it got decimated in the last Indian elections. Ask Prakash Karat. So looks like the wise men you mentioned were not that cool. But then they are happy because they are still free!!

I mean, I would love to believe Zhao Zhiyang was jailed because he was found having sex with Deng's lucky cricket. China had one guy who talked like a wise broad-based politician and he gets carted away till his death.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 01 Sep 2009 03:41

Relax Nair Saar

Liuddin will take a few days to digest the information he/she got today, another few days of patriotic denial re-education and then he/she will be back rejuvinated, making the same arguments and continue the same cycle until he/she is enrolled in one of those internet addiction rehab camps. What is a bit dissappointing is that Liuddin has ignored my requests to visit EVM dhaaga and have a debate with RMji

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Sep 2009 15:16

DIFFIDENT DIPLOMACY - China continues to outmanoeuvre India - Kanwal Sibal

suneels · Post by **suneels** » 01 Sep 2009 16:14

One flew over the cuckoo's Nest ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8219768.stm

Tough cure for China web addicts ...

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 01 Sep 2009 17:23

China Tells Schoolchildren to Love Country:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8231324.stm

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 17:40

Karna_A wrote:Liu,

Good info from your side.
Can you let me know how popular Amitabha is in China or your city/province. As per my discussions with expat mainland Chinese, Amitabha is even more popular than Buddha in China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit%C4%81bha
And also why aren't more Chinese visiting the birth place of Buddhism in India?
If influence of Amitabha increases in China and that of Godlessness decreases, wouldn't it become more friendly towards India?
It's quite interesting that Amitabh is considered a Movie God in India and Amitabha is considered an actual God in China.
Liu wrote:
" expensive education fees of Kids, unaffordable houses and expensive medical care" are the 3 heaviest economy burden of ordinary Chinese now.

chinese call them " the new 3 heavy mountains".

deeply influenced by confucians, most of chinese are strange atheists .

one hand, most chinese don't really accept any religions ,including Bhudism; on the other hand, CHinese will not resist any religion.

if there are a church,a mosque and a Bhudism temple in one town, chinese can visit all the 3 and pray to God, Allah and Buddha at the same time.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 17:43

Liu wrote: one hand, most chinese don't really accept any religions ,including Bhudism; on the other hand, CHinese will not resist any religion.
.

Is that modern day chinese or before the cleansing under the CPC?

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 18:32

Sanku wrote:
Liu wrote: one hand, most chinese don't really accept any religions ,including Bhudism; on the other hand, CHinese will not resist any religion.
.
Is that modern day chinese or before the cleansing under the CPC?

it has nothing to do with communism.

chinese have been so since Chinese accepted Confucians.
Confucian said:" people should respect any God but had better stay away from them".

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 18:35

Liu wrote:
Sanku wrote: one hand, most chinese don't really accept any religions ,including Bhudism; on the other hand, CHinese will not resist any religion.

Is that modern day chinese or before the cleansing under the CPC?
it has nothing to do with communism.

chinese have been so since Chinese accepted Confucians.
Confucian said:" people should respect any God but had better stay away from them".

That does not answer my question, do you have trouble understanding it?
You made a statement about Chinese I want to know which period of China do you say that claim is true for. (please use a translation tool if you dont understand)

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 18:49

Sanku wrote:That does not answer my question, do you have trouble understanding it?
You made a statement about Chinese I want to know which period of China do you say that claim is true for. (please use a translation tool if you dont understand)

it is you that have trouble in understanding my word..
maybe I should tell it in a simple way.

chinese have been atheists mainly because confucians told them to stay away from any God or ghost.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 18:58

Liu wrote:
chinese have been atheists mainly because confucians told them to stay away from any God or ghost.

Well obviously the Chinese have not been listening then (BTW Buddhism does not believe in GOD -- try and behave at least a little educated and not come across as a total frog in the well)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_China

The Tang capital of Chang'an (today's Xi'an) became an important center for Buddhist thought. From there Buddhism spread to Korea, and Japanese embassies of Kentoshi helped gain footholds in Japan.

The popularization of Buddhism in this period is evident in the many scripture-filled caves and structures surviving from this period. The Mogao Caves near Dunhuang in Gansu province, the Longmen Grottoes near Luoyang in Henan and the Yungang Grottoes near Datong in Shanxi are the most renowned examples from the Northern, Sui and Tang Dynasties. The Leshan Giant Buddha, carved out of a hillside in the 8th century during the Tang Dynasty and looking down on the confluence of three rivers, is still the largest stone Buddha statue in the world.

Today the most popular form of Buddhism in both mainland China and Taiwan is a mix of the Pure Land and Chán schools. More recent surveys put the total number of Chinese Buddhists between 660 million (50%) and over 1 billion (80%)[13], thus making China the country with the most Buddhist adherents in the world, followed by Japan. However, it was difficult to estimate accurately the number of Buddhists because they did not have congregational memberships and often did not participate in public ceremonies. Many lay people practice Buddhism and Taoism at the same time.

Its a pity that I have to teach a Chinese their own history, talks about the total destruction of culture and morality that exists in China after CPC

A truly bankrupt society.

suneels · Post by **suneels** » 01 Sep 2009 19:05

China web addicts 'beaten' at camp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8209422.stm

This is awful!

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 01 Sep 2009 19:12

A truly bankrupt society.

Does that matter?
They drop food stuff in Indian territory. India does nothing.
They refuse to recognize a part of India as Indian and India can do no more than protest.
They enter Indian territory whenever they want and India merely "confirms" those reports.

And we're happy to think they are a morally degenerate society!

All over the world they have the upper hand versus India. India should be this morally corrupt.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 19:22

Sanku wrote:
Liu wrote:
chinese have been atheists mainly because confucians told them to stay away from any God or ghost.
Well obviously the Chinese have not been listening then (BTW Buddhism does not believe in GOD -- try and behave at least a little educated and not come across as a total frog in the well)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_China

The Tang capital of Chang'an (today's Xi'an) became an important center for Buddhist thought. From there Buddhism spread to Korea, and Japanese embassies of Kentoshi helped gain footholds in Japan.

The popularization of Buddhism in this period is evident in the many scripture-filled caves and structures surviving from this period. The Mogao Caves near Dunhuang in Gansu province, the Longmen Grottoes near Luoyang in Henan and the Yungang Grottoes near Datong in Shanxi are the most renowned examples from the Northern, Sui and Tang Dynasties. The Leshan Giant Buddha, carved out of a hillside in the 8th century during the Tang Dynasty and looking down on the confluence of three rivers, is still the largest stone Buddha statue in the world.

Today the most popular form of Buddhism in both mainland China and Taiwan is a mix of the Pure Land and Chán schools. More recent surveys put the total number of Chinese Buddhists between 660 million (50%) and over 1 billion (80%)[13], thus making China the country with the most Buddhist adherents in the world, followed by Japan. However, it was difficult to estimate accurately the number of Buddhists because they did not have congregational memberships and often did not participate in public ceremonies. Many lay people practice Buddhism and Taoism at the same time.

Its a pity that I have to teach a Chinese their own history, talks about the total destruction of culture and morality that exists in China after CPC

A truly bankrupt society.

well, have you seen my post?

chinese don't really accept any religions,but doesn't resist any religion either.
they might practice Bhddism , Taoism ,Chrismas, Islam and even Hindism at the same time, although they don't really accept any of them .

For example,

if I meet one church, I will enter it and pray to God.
if I meet one Mosque, I may enter it and pray to "allah".
If I meet the tomb of Marx, I will pary to Marx.

but it shows that i respect them , and doesn't mean that i accept any of them.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 19:26

Liu wrote:chinese don't really accept any religions,but doesn't resist any religion either.
they might practice Bhddism , Taoism ,Chrismas, Islam and even Hindism at the same time, although they don't really accept any of them .

So if dont accept it how can they practice it? (Did you help Shri Singh explain S e S BTW) and more importantly why?

Are they frauds (yes I know they are to others as rule, but are frauds to themselves since religion is a personal matter)

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 19:28

Jaspreet wrote:
A truly bankrupt society.
Does that matter?.

Yes it does. Power comes and goes, once morality goes nothing remains.

China is a dead end, its requiem waits to be sung.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 01 Sep 2009 19:30

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 01 Sep 2009 19:38

Liu wrote:
BijuShet wrote: Stop believing & spreading the lies dude and open your mind.

Wiki Link on : [img=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy]List of countries by life expectancy[/img]
Code: Select all
Rank by UN ==| Rank by =| ==============| Overall life ========| Male life ===========| Female life 
member state | Entity ==| Country ======| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth =| expectancy at birth   
-------------|----------|---------------|----------------------|----------------------|----------------------
78 ==========| 105 =====| PRC(mainland)=| 73.47 ===============| 71.61 ===============| 75.52 
115 =========| 145 =====| India ========| 69.89 ===============| 67.46 ===============| 72.61
also wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

http://i3.6.cn/cvbnm/73/52/99/4f094dfc4 ... bfcea2.jpg

http://i3.6.cn/cvbnm/77/c6/10/ae66ce960 ... faa64c.jpg

IOW china will be a country of old people...... demography not on the side of chinese.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 19:43

Sanku wrote:
Liu wrote:chinese don't really accept any religions,but doesn't resist any religion either.
they might practice Bhddism , Taoism ,Chrismas, Islam and even Hindism at the same time, although they don't really accept any of them .
So if dont accept it how can they practice it? (Did you help Shri Singh explain S e S BTW) and more importantly why?

Are they frauds (yes I know they are to others as rule, but are frauds to themselves since religion is a personal matter)

that is why you don't understand chinese.

to chinese ,to practise one is not equal to accept one.

the doubt of religions roots in the heart and soul of CHinese .

munna · Post by **munna** » 01 Sep 2009 19:45

Liu wrote:that is why you don't understand chinese.

to chinese ,to practise one is not equal to accept one.

I agree with Liuddin on that one, "Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" anyone. In other words do not trust Chicoms and their agents.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 19:59

IOW china will be a country of old people...... demography not on the side of chinese.

why always one-way metality?

why can't china carry out " two kids policy" or "3 kids policy" ,when China feels that it needs more babies?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 01 Sep 2009 20:29

Liu wrote:
IOW china will be a country of old people...... demography not on the side of chinese.
why always one-way metality?

why can't china carry out " two kids policy" or "3 kids policy" ,when CPC feels that it needs more babies?

There you go fixed it for you.

amardeep_s · Post by **amardeep_s** » 01 Sep 2009 20:34

vaman sahab, gives a whole new meaning to 'Chinese forced labor camps'

edit - deleted the comment?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 01 Sep 2009 20:38

amardeep_s wrote:
vaman sahab, gives a whole new meaning to 'Chinese forced labor camps'

edit - deleted the comment?

Predator just flew over my head

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 Sep 2009 20:40

vaman wrote:Predator just flew over my head

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 21:52

Liu wrote: that is why you don't understand chinese.

to chinese ,to practise one is not equal to accept one.

the doubt of religions roots in the heart and soul of CHinese .

So basically not only are you frauds outside but frauds inside too...

total frauds...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 Sep 2009 23:04

self-deleted.

Chini-incursions are discussed in Mil thread.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 01 Sep 2009 23:07

Sanku wrote:
Liu wrote: that is why you don't understand chinese.

to chinese ,to practise one is not equal to accept one.

the doubt of religions roots in the heart and soul of CHinese .
So basically not only are you frauds outside but frauds inside too...

total frauds...

Liu, so Confucius gave warning about blind belief in gods without conviction and you are using it for propaganda against spirituality? rather comical.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 01 Sep 2009 23:18

hnair wrote:

Liu, so Confucius gave warning about blind belief in gods without conviction and you are using it for propaganda against spirituality? rather comical.

Confucious told people not ot take part in the quarrel among gods like God and Allah and stay cautioulsy away from them.
he said a famous saying : "敬鬼神而远之" .that is "Be cautious to gods and keep yourself away from them"

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 01 Sep 2009 23:37

Liu wrote:
Confucious told people not ot take part in the quarrel among gods like God and Allah and stay cautioulsy away from them.
he said a famous saying : "敬鬼神而远之" .that is "Be cautious to gods and keep yourself away from them"

Liu,

Does the following quote from Confucious also apply to neighboring countries?

Love thy neighbor as thyself: Do not to others what thou wouldn't not wish be done to thyself: Forgive injuries. Forgive thy enemy, be reconciled to him, give him assistance, invoke God in his behalf.
Confucious

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 01 Sep 2009 23:42

Liu wrote: Confucious told people not ot take part in the quarrel among gods like God and Allah and stay cautioulsy away from them.
he said a famous saying : "敬鬼神而远之" .that is "Be cautious to gods and keep yourself away from them"

Liu you are confused as was Confucious probably, for ones if you dont believe in gods how can you take part in their quarrels. If you are worried about taking part in the quarrels clearly you believe in their presence.

I dont know if can feel sorrier for you, I would have to be Avoltikeshasvara for that.

And dear Liu, Buddhists dont believe in Gods either.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Sep 2009 01:59

Interestingly the comment by Liu that Chinese do not believe in religion got me looking some more with very intresting results

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_rebellion

The Taiping Rebellion was a large-scale revolt in China from 1850 to 1864 -- and the replacement of Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion by a form of Christianity, holding that Hong Xiuquan was the younger brother of Jesus.
Early in the Taiping rebellion, the Taiping rebels targeted Buddhism. In the Battle of Nanjing (1853), the Taiping army butchered thousands of monks in Nanjing

Also

As mentioned earlier, persecution came during the reign of Emperor Wuzong in the Tang Dynasty. Wuzong was said to hate the sight of Buddhist monks, whom he thought were tax-evaders. In 845, he ordered the destruction of 4,600 Buddhist monasteries and 40,000 temples. About 250,000 Buddhist monks and nuns had to give up their monastery lives. Wuzong cited that Buddhism was an alien religion, which is the reason he also persecuted the Christians in China. Ancient Chinese Buddhism never fully recovered from the persecution.

So we see two clear examples of religious wars in China based on solid religious fanaticism. Also shows the hold of religion in China if not repressed by state. No wonder they are afraid of Falun Gong.

I also noted the following

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanjing

The Nanking Massacre or Nanjing Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, refers to a six-week period following the Japanese capture of Nanking, then capital of the Republic of China, on December 9, 1937

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_dynasty

In addition to natural calamities and jiedushi amassing autonomous control, the Huang Chao Rebellion (874-884) resulted in the sacking of both Chang'an and Luoyang, and took an entire decade to suppress.[160] Although the rebellion was defeated by the Tang, it never recovered from that crucial blow, weakening it for the future military powers to take over.

So not only did religious wars and prosecution of Buddhists happen, shortly after wards within 50 years there was a massive revolt or external invasion completely destroying China.

Also the scales of destruction in China is massive -- a cursory reading of the history shows up numbers like 20 Million dead in nearly any random revolt war. The major ones are even more bloody, up to 1/4 of the entire population perishing. A rather ruthless bunch of people if not civilized by Buddhism clearly.

Based on the above the next crucial cycle of Buddhist repression and the following destruction cycle of China is scheduled around 2008-2012 time frame (destruction of Tibet and war on India) -- lets wait and see.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Sep 2009 05:54

Jaspreet wrote: But sometimes what we know to be morality is turned upside down by events.
Recall the lecture an ancestor of mine got in a battlefield hundreds of years ago when he had doubts over whether he should use his weapons against his cousins, uncles and friends.

what a way to put it !
jaspreet ji, I must say I miss your way of putting things.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 02 Sep 2009 09:56

http://prudentinvestor.blogspot.com/200 ... ubble.html

Overcapacity in China is a big issue. And that spans everything from shopping malls, to office buildings, to factories and of course labor.

The solvency of banks is going to be questionable but that does not matter since the regulators and the bankers are the same.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... -yuan.html

Article about how China is stuck in a hard place with its huge hoard of USD denominated assets and the need for a weak Yuan to drive exports.

There is going to be more social chaos in China and India has to by on its guard to prevent any Chinese misadventure. War is the time-tested way of ending recessions and depressions.