X-poting from China Military Watch thread:
Reporting from latest edition of India Today:
IAF paradropped 96 paratroopers on October 30th from 3 AN-32 belonging to 48 Sqn. in Nyoma Ladakh as part of joint training.
India-China News and Discussion
Re: India-China News and Discussions
It is a pity we live in a country where newspapers are either rapist goons/mass murderers' propaganda yellow ones or useless money bag controlled toilet papers whose articles are not worth reading and whose comments are about as useful as a drunk town idiot's ramblings. Even Bangkok Today is far better than any Indian daily..
Over in PRC at least in HK there is at least SCMP with a lot of independent and intelligent reports appearing everyday practically. Unfortunately, its website is pay only. Some nuggets
There was a very nice article by a gora correspondent about how PRC is spending future generations money away in unnecessary infra and how too much infra relative to economic growth can actually be bad for rest of economy.
It was also reported that the national number reported for economic growth was actually exceeded by all but 2 remote provinces - that too by considerable margins! Which means someone is cooking books and guess who...
A leading newly listed company has actually ordered an audit of its own prospectus filings after analysts discovered serious mis-statements!
A gangster woman who had 16 gigolos to service her, and got merely 18 years for more than two decades of running gambling, vice dens and violence against anyone that opposed her. This is in a country where you get shot for upsetting the wrong person.
More and more..if you keep reading..no doubt there is lots of good news too. such as PRC going to have 16,000 km of high speed 250kmph+ railway in another two years time...Beijing-Shanghai in 4 hrs...while we are still taking 28 hours to get from Chennai to Delhi.
Businessmen have even worse stories to narrate, in private. Everyone agrees that a big one (9+ on Richter scale) is coming, just dont know when.
While I wish our PRC people well, and there are lots of them that are nice and good, the commie state that is trying to put down or control India through its agents and mass murderers and traitors will never let good relationship bloom between us..it should be interesting to watch the scene to say the least...
Over in PRC at least in HK there is at least SCMP with a lot of independent and intelligent reports appearing everyday practically. Unfortunately, its website is pay only. Some nuggets
There was a very nice article by a gora correspondent about how PRC is spending future generations money away in unnecessary infra and how too much infra relative to economic growth can actually be bad for rest of economy.
It was also reported that the national number reported for economic growth was actually exceeded by all but 2 remote provinces - that too by considerable margins! Which means someone is cooking books and guess who...
A leading newly listed company has actually ordered an audit of its own prospectus filings after analysts discovered serious mis-statements!
A gangster woman who had 16 gigolos to service her, and got merely 18 years for more than two decades of running gambling, vice dens and violence against anyone that opposed her. This is in a country where you get shot for upsetting the wrong person.
More and more..if you keep reading..no doubt there is lots of good news too. such as PRC going to have 16,000 km of high speed 250kmph+ railway in another two years time...Beijing-Shanghai in 4 hrs...while we are still taking 28 hours to get from Chennai to Delhi.
Businessmen have even worse stories to narrate, in private. Everyone agrees that a big one (9+ on Richter scale) is coming, just dont know when.
While I wish our PRC people well, and there are lots of them that are nice and good, the commie state that is trying to put down or control India through its agents and mass murderers and traitors will never let good relationship bloom between us..it should be interesting to watch the scene to say the least...
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Sorry, but I have been hearing this line ever since China's boom began. It is a cottage industry, and while i agree with the second para above, wishful thinking will get us nowhere. What are the hard stats - economy - 3 times as big, infra-God knows how much, roads encircling central asia and linking up with Europe, pipelines all over the place, girding us on both sides and reaching the warm waters on both sides, heartland resources -all tied up - Russia - neutral; everyone else - scared; where does the list end?Plus, they are perceived to be playing a constructive role in autocracy loving ASEAN and in confused Africa. And they have in the latter when you set them against the colonials.Suppiah wrote:Businessmen have even worse stories to narrate, in private. Everyone agrees that a big one (9+ on Richter scale) is coming, just dont know when.
While I wish our PRC people well, and there are lots of them that are nice and good, the commie state that is trying to put down or control India through its agents and mass murderers and traitors will never let good relationship bloom between us..it should be interesting to watch the scene to say the least...
The chinks if any (I mean in terms of faultlines) have been masterfully analysed by Prem Shankar Jha in his "Managed Chaos", but his theory of inneficient and wasteful growth - while adequately documented -does not fully stand up to other stats regarding productivity increase and export growth. One main caveat - no one is comfortable with this rise, and Central Asians wistfully wonder why India is asleep while Chinese flags sprout all over their territory - they want us there. How does one explain to them the Kodas and the massive drain of resources going on here while S & T, R & D, education and helath, all fly out of the window.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
While this new and surprising display of spine is going on, it is high time India borrowed a page from the chinese book of tactics and inserted some official and visible question marks on Tibet and East Turkestan (xinjiang). We MUST correct Vajpayee's idiotic mistake. The chinese are showing us how to do it daily.
Tibet is India's legitimate ticket to claim Arunachal
Tibet is India's legitimate ticket to claim Arunachal
As a responsible law abiding nation, India...has a moral responsibility to tell the truth that Tibet...is an occupied country, says Tashi Phuntsok.
At the 11th round of Sino-India border negotiations in 2008 in Harbin, China, then Indian foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee ...used the language of mutual understanding, mutual accommodation, and mutual adjustment, but...
..The Chinese envoy firmly emphasised that India must make a substantial adjustment in the eastern sector including returning Tawang to China as a precondition to reach any settlement. It is important to notice the words 'eastern sector' which indicates that acquiring Tawang is not the end of the dispute.
..India is an emerging world power economically, militarily, and politically. Unlike the People's Republic of China, India is a democratic and morally sensible nation. The new powerful India has no reason to bend to Chinese aggression.
For her own interest, India has to resurrect the Tibet issue on the international platform and eventually bring it into the United Nations General Assembly. Several Western countries are waiting for India to take that initiative.
Last edited by Victor on 11 Nov 2009 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Kailash Mansarovar is the most important Shakthi Sthala. Before the Mahabharata war Arjuna went to important areas "within" Bharata and Kailash was one of them. Why have we not claimed it?
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
NDTV debate on HH Dalai Lama's visit to Tawang
Commie Dog Raja can barely hide where his loyalties lie
Commie Dog Raja can barely hide where his loyalties lie
Re: India-China News and Discussions
X-posted...
Any thoughts on the subject?
Thanks, ramana
Belated welcome. Hope we can hear more from you in future.rajeswari wrote:It shoud be understood as to what is driving China in this direction now. Constraining India’s growth aspirations and limiting its potential to the South Asian region continue to be underlying objectives in Chinese policies. It might also be in its interests to see much India can be pressured so as to extract the maximum in border negotiations with India. However, there has been so far no studies (am not aware of) that have looked into what is acceptable to the Chinese on the border question. What is the best possible, and the worst possible bargain that they are able to the public which they are willing to settle vis a vis India.
Any thoughts on the subject?
Thanks, ramana
Re: India-China News and Discussions
This is a nation with massive territorial ambitions that will never really stall. They seized Aksai Chin in 62' but that has just whetted their appetite. Based upon heresay it seems that that CHina wants the locus of Buddhism to be well within their borders. This is part of their strategy.
In the meantime we should not neglect their other border disputes. Keep in mind that this guy is sitting in China and speaking for the party. Some of the statements are ridiculous.
Resolving China's border disputes
By Zhang Quanyi
Beijing, China — On Dec. 31 China and Vietnam completed the demarcation of their land border, erecting the last of the markers that now run along the entire length of the border. This event signified that China has settled its land borders with 12 of its neighbors, leaving only Bhutan – which has no diplomatic relations with China – and India, the last and most important border to be demarcated.
The Sino-Vietnam border settlement followed a complicated history of relations between the two countries. Vietnam was once a tributary state under Chinese protection. This relationship lasted until 1885 when Vietnam came under French control following the Sino-French War.
During the Vietnam War of the 1960s, while the United States backed South Vietnam, for ideological and geopolitical reasons China supported North Vietnam, offering considerable support in terms of food, military supplies and personnel. After the war and the unification of Vietnam in 1976, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was formed.
Ridiculously, the two socialist countries went to war in 1979. The newly unified Vietnam allied with the Soviet Union, which was seeking domination in the region. China regarded this as a thorn in its side, and went to war with Vietnam both to send a warning to the Soviet Union and to punish Vietnam. China argued that its purpose was defensive.
When China and the Soviet Union reconciled with one another at the end of 1989, Sino-Vietnamese relations gradually followed suit. However, the relationship did not really warm up until the end of the 1990s, when the two decided to settle their border issues.
How could small Vietnam reach a compromise with the mighty China?
According to the theory of international relations known as offensive realism, military superiority will always propel a country to strive for greater gains in territorial negotiations. The U.S. political scholar Robert Gilpin also argued in his famous book, “War and Change in World Politics,” that rapid internal growth would propel states to redefine and expand their foreign interests.
China’s increasing national power and growth would surely make Vietnam suspicious as to Chinese motives in seeking to resolve the border issue with Vietnam.
In reality, China did not intentionally take advantage of its economic and military superiority. Instead, it has become less belligerent in bargaining with its neighbors.
China even offered some concessions over territorial issues, particularly in the case of Russia. When the two countries concluded their border demarcation along the Heilongjiang River, China agreed that the border should run through Heixiazi Island, giving China only half of the island when it could have claimed the whole. 
Professor M. Taylor Fravel, a Sinologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has evaluated China’s approach to the resolution of territorial disputes. He concluded that China has had 23 territorial conflicts with other states, but has used force in only a few, while in 17 of these conflicts China has compromised or offered concessions.
In essence, China’s willingness to compromise in settling territorial issues derives from Chinese philosophy on governance. It can be attributed to the “good neighbor policy,” which regards relations with a close neighbor as more important than those with a distant relative.
Of course there are also geopolitical considerations behind China’s policy. But behind these lies the Chinese philosophical understanding of the relationship between powerful and small states, and the fact that a whole is composed of different parts.
Early Chinese thinking has lent wisdom to the country’s system of governance. The Chinese regarded the universe as functioning in a way similar to a clock; in order to run well its various parts must be coordinated. Good governance would make the universe, or the international system, run well, like a properly functioning clock. Hence whole-hearted submission to a ruler would keep the universe, or society, in order.
Therefore, Chinese rulers have never preferred coercion or war as a means of resolving conflict. Rather, these have been viewed as a means of last resort. Wars, regardless of their purpose, would result in hatred and endless confrontation, and were thus to be avoided.
In modern times, when the Chinese did engage in skirmishes with other countries, such as the Soviet Union or India, they never called these “wars.”
Instead they referred to them as defensive or punishing actions. When China did take aggressive action it never pushed it to the point of full occupation. This was shown in its border wars with India in 1962, with the Soviet Union in 1969 and with Vietnam in 1979. China did not go so far as to occupy the Indian or Vietnamese capitals in order to save face for those countries.
Worth mentioning is that modern Chinese leaders have inherited this ancient thinking and integrated it with their “new security concept,” a term that originates with the Copenhagen School of security studies, which holds that the security of each actor in a region is interrelated with the security of other actors.
This new security concept also goes along with the interdependence theory in the era of globalization. Chinese leaders have increasingly become aware that sovereignty cannot be constrained to regaining or seizing their lost territories. To some extent, the capability of exercising force is needed for multinational engagement and participation in regional and global security.
Although most of its land border disputes have been resolved, China still has a number of unresolved sea border issues. The question is whether China will take the same approach to settling these disputes, which involve huge potential resources including fish, oil and gas.
China’s attitude is likely to depend on the flexibility of the countries concerned, as well as its own internal concerns. Too much compromise or concession could spark a backlash of nationalistic fervor among Chinese citizens. Therefore Chinese policymakers have to be cautious and take this into consideration.
--
(Dr. Zhang Quanyi is associate professor at Zhejiang Wanli University in Ningbo, China, and a guest researcher at the Center for the Study of Non-traditional Security and Peaceful Development at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou. His research interest revolves around the creation of a world state. He can be contacted at qyzhangupi@gmail.com. ©Copyright Zhang Quanyi.)
In the meantime we should not neglect their other border disputes. Keep in mind that this guy is sitting in China and speaking for the party. Some of the statements are ridiculous.
Resolving China's border disputes
By Zhang Quanyi
Beijing, China — On Dec. 31 China and Vietnam completed the demarcation of their land border, erecting the last of the markers that now run along the entire length of the border. This event signified that China has settled its land borders with 12 of its neighbors, leaving only Bhutan – which has no diplomatic relations with China – and India, the last and most important border to be demarcated.
The Sino-Vietnam border settlement followed a complicated history of relations between the two countries. Vietnam was once a tributary state under Chinese protection. This relationship lasted until 1885 when Vietnam came under French control following the Sino-French War.
During the Vietnam War of the 1960s, while the United States backed South Vietnam, for ideological and geopolitical reasons China supported North Vietnam, offering considerable support in terms of food, military supplies and personnel. After the war and the unification of Vietnam in 1976, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was formed.
Ridiculously, the two socialist countries went to war in 1979. The newly unified Vietnam allied with the Soviet Union, which was seeking domination in the region. China regarded this as a thorn in its side, and went to war with Vietnam both to send a warning to the Soviet Union and to punish Vietnam. China argued that its purpose was defensive.
When China and the Soviet Union reconciled with one another at the end of 1989, Sino-Vietnamese relations gradually followed suit. However, the relationship did not really warm up until the end of the 1990s, when the two decided to settle their border issues.
How could small Vietnam reach a compromise with the mighty China?
According to the theory of international relations known as offensive realism, military superiority will always propel a country to strive for greater gains in territorial negotiations. The U.S. political scholar Robert Gilpin also argued in his famous book, “War and Change in World Politics,” that rapid internal growth would propel states to redefine and expand their foreign interests.
China’s increasing national power and growth would surely make Vietnam suspicious as to Chinese motives in seeking to resolve the border issue with Vietnam.
In reality, China did not intentionally take advantage of its economic and military superiority. Instead, it has become less belligerent in bargaining with its neighbors.
China even offered some concessions over territorial issues, particularly in the case of Russia. When the two countries concluded their border demarcation along the Heilongjiang River, China agreed that the border should run through Heixiazi Island, giving China only half of the island when it could have claimed the whole. Professor M. Taylor Fravel, a Sinologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has evaluated China’s approach to the resolution of territorial disputes. He concluded that China has had 23 territorial conflicts with other states, but has used force in only a few, while in 17 of these conflicts China has compromised or offered concessions.
In essence, China’s willingness to compromise in settling territorial issues derives from Chinese philosophy on governance. It can be attributed to the “good neighbor policy,” which regards relations with a close neighbor as more important than those with a distant relative.
Of course there are also geopolitical considerations behind China’s policy. But behind these lies the Chinese philosophical understanding of the relationship between powerful and small states, and the fact that a whole is composed of different parts.
Early Chinese thinking has lent wisdom to the country’s system of governance. The Chinese regarded the universe as functioning in a way similar to a clock; in order to run well its various parts must be coordinated. Good governance would make the universe, or the international system, run well, like a properly functioning clock. Hence whole-hearted submission to a ruler would keep the universe, or society, in order.
Therefore, Chinese rulers have never preferred coercion or war as a means of resolving conflict. Rather, these have been viewed as a means of last resort. Wars, regardless of their purpose, would result in hatred and endless confrontation, and were thus to be avoided.
In modern times, when the Chinese did engage in skirmishes with other countries, such as the Soviet Union or India, they never called these “wars.”
Instead they referred to them as defensive or punishing actions. When China did take aggressive action it never pushed it to the point of full occupation. This was shown in its border wars with India in 1962, with the Soviet Union in 1969 and with Vietnam in 1979. China did not go so far as to occupy the Indian or Vietnamese capitals in order to save face for those countries.Worth mentioning is that modern Chinese leaders have inherited this ancient thinking and integrated it with their “new security concept,” a term that originates with the Copenhagen School of security studies, which holds that the security of each actor in a region is interrelated with the security of other actors.
This new security concept also goes along with the interdependence theory in the era of globalization. Chinese leaders have increasingly become aware that sovereignty cannot be constrained to regaining or seizing their lost territories. To some extent, the capability of exercising force is needed for multinational engagement and participation in regional and global security.
Although most of its land border disputes have been resolved, China still has a number of unresolved sea border issues. The question is whether China will take the same approach to settling these disputes, which involve huge potential resources including fish, oil and gas.
China’s attitude is likely to depend on the flexibility of the countries concerned, as well as its own internal concerns. Too much compromise or concession could spark a backlash of nationalistic fervor among Chinese citizens. Therefore Chinese policymakers have to be cautious and take this into consideration.
--
(Dr. Zhang Quanyi is associate professor at Zhejiang Wanli University in Ningbo, China, and a guest researcher at the Center for the Study of Non-traditional Security and Peaceful Development at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou. His research interest revolves around the creation of a world state. He can be contacted at qyzhangupi@gmail.com. ©Copyright Zhang Quanyi.)
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Older article on how China has settled border disputes with it's 12 disputees. This was in 2005. Chinas so called border disputes you will see are settled based upon the power equation with the country in question. The more powerful the country the more China concedes. We have no choice but to accelerate our military and nuclear program
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/map ... tween.html
According to newly published map in China, the border between Xinjiang AR and the Central Asian Stans have been quietly changed, reflecting results of recent negotiation to settle borders.
If the negotiation with India goes well as expected, China would be able settle all land border disputes with its neighbors. This would serve to prove that China has no intention of aggression, today or in the future, and dispel the myth of "China threat". Because if China plans to be aggressive, it would rather save some of the disputed areas as future excuses. It would also be silly to settle them in such haste because as we see below, in almost every case, China conceded most the territories it has claimed.
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/map ... tween.html
According to newly published map in China, the border between Xinjiang AR and the Central Asian Stans have been quietly changed, reflecting results of recent negotiation to settle borders.
If the negotiation with India goes well as expected, China would be able settle all land border disputes with its neighbors. This would serve to prove that China has no intention of aggression, today or in the future, and dispel the myth of "China threat". Because if China plans to be aggressive, it would rather save some of the disputed areas as future excuses. It would also be silly to settle them in such haste because as we see below, in almost every case, China conceded most the territories it has claimed.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Does anyone know this analyst? He is good
http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers26/paper2556.html
China’s border dispute with India is not just about the realignment of the border here and there. Its magnitude and extent is colossal. In the North in India’s Ladakh region, China is in illegal occupation of Indian territory of the size of Switzerland. In India’s North-East periphery, China is rigidly claiming the whole of India’s Arunachal Pradesh – a territory which in terms of size approximates the size of Austria.
Hence any discussion of China’s border dispute is not about mere border realignments along the Himalayan frontiers. China’s border disputes with India pertain to illegal occupation of Indian Territory of the size of Switzerland and a persistent claim to Indian Territory of the size of Austria.
The strategically naive Indian political leadership aided by an equally strategically naïve Indian media imbued with romanticizing about China has not realistically projected to the Indian public the colossal magnitude of the Sino-Indian border dispute.
Implicit in the magnitude of the Sino-Indian border dispute is an equally colossal magnitude of the insurmountability of the resolution of the Sino-Indian border dispute. This is evident that even before a dialogue can take place, China has so far not taken the preliminary steps to exchange border alignment maps with India. This is a strategic reality about China which the Indian political leadership must educate the Indian public if they wish to avoid nemesis catching up with them as it caught up with Nehru in 1962.
http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers26/paper2556.html
China’s border dispute with India is not just about the realignment of the border here and there. Its magnitude and extent is colossal. In the North in India’s Ladakh region, China is in illegal occupation of Indian territory of the size of Switzerland. In India’s North-East periphery, China is rigidly claiming the whole of India’s Arunachal Pradesh – a territory which in terms of size approximates the size of Austria.
Hence any discussion of China’s border dispute is not about mere border realignments along the Himalayan frontiers. China’s border disputes with India pertain to illegal occupation of Indian Territory of the size of Switzerland and a persistent claim to Indian Territory of the size of Austria.
The strategically naive Indian political leadership aided by an equally strategically naïve Indian media imbued with romanticizing about China has not realistically projected to the Indian public the colossal magnitude of the Sino-Indian border dispute.
Implicit in the magnitude of the Sino-Indian border dispute is an equally colossal magnitude of the insurmountability of the resolution of the Sino-Indian border dispute. This is evident that even before a dialogue can take place, China has so far not taken the preliminary steps to exchange border alignment maps with India. This is a strategic reality about China which the Indian political leadership must educate the Indian public if they wish to avoid nemesis catching up with them as it caught up with Nehru in 1962.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
See. We come back to mega ton bomb.Jarita wrote:Older article on how China has settled border disputes with it's 12 disputees. This was in 2005. Chinas so called border disputes you will see are settled based upon the power equation with the country in question. The more powerful the country the more China concedes. We have no choice but to accelerate our military and nuclear program
What is in the eyes of Chinese elite is important
Re: India-China News and Discussions
He was Ray sir's teacher in Staff College. Here more about himJarita wrote:Does anyone know this analyst? He is good
http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers26/paper2556.html
Dr Subhash Kapila is a graduate of the Royal British Army Staff College, with a Masters in Defence Science (Madras University) and a PhD in Strategic Studies (Allahabad University) Combines a rich experience of Army (Brigadier) and diplomatic assignments in major countries. He writes extensively on foreign policy issues and strategic affairs for think-tanks and professional journals. He has participated in many national seminars and interviews by CNN, BBC etc. He is also the author of a book "India's Defence Policies and Strategic Thought: A Comparative Analysis".
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Acharya wrote:See. We come back to mega ton bomb.Jarita wrote:Older article on how China has settled border disputes with it's 12 disputees. This was in 2005. Chinas so called border disputes you will see are settled based upon the power equation with the country in question. The more powerful the country the more China concedes. We have no choice but to accelerate our military and nuclear program
What is in the eyes of Chinese elite is important
Brings to mind the whole guns vs butter argument. Our netas are in the butter camp especially when the butter is in swiss banks.
But it is not just about a megaton bomb. Somehow in the minds of the Indian Elite, China is still not an enemy which is a dangerous notion given past betrayal and massive territory they have grabbed. Additionally some of them still have the fear of 1962 in their minds - we need to know about the victories we have had against China.
We truly need a multipronged approach with this country. Realize that based on past precedent their very existance is a threat to us. What they promise us is irrelevant. In their tradition promises mean nothing.
- Perception: This is a culture where perception is 50% of the war. Right now they perceive us as weaker than them. Multiple factors are driving that - a dual center (remember the invite to Sonia that was an insult), the way our senior leadership behaves, our movement etc. We have not threatened their perception in the world. Losing face is a big deal for them. Our strategy does not address that
- International Presence: They have stepped on many toes and have many enemies. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. What are we doing?
-Military and nuclear capability: This has been much discussed but it is a lacuna for sure. It also drives perception and international play
Till we have our buffer states back between India and China there will be no peace. China will keep needling us. The saying 'death from a thousand cuts" comes from them. This was Mao and his consorts favorite saying.
We not only have to defend ourselves but also fracture China. There is no coexistence. As soon as they see weaknss they will ask for something else.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Indian Army to deploy more troops along Arunachal border
India is quietly beefing up its defences along the China border in Arunachal Pradesh, even as it publicly downplays the growing diplomatic spat with Beijing over the Dalai Lama’s visit to the state.
The Indian Army will deploy its new 15,000-strong 56 Division in Arunachal, which China claims as its own, within four weeks, a senior defence official told HT, requesting anonymity.
Simultaneously, it has put out a Request for Information (RFI) for acquiring 300 lightweight tanks that can be deployed in the North East and Jammu & Kashmir.
The purpose is to leave nothing to chance, notwithstanding the show of bonhomie between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao at their October 25 meeting in Thailand.
A second division will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months, the official added.
The army’s RFI states the light tanks should be capable of destroying bunkers and soft-skin vehicles up to 3,000m away and should have armour-piercing anti-tank guided missiles and anti-aircraft machine guns.
The RFI, which is in HT’s possession, also stipulates these tanks should “have protection against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare”.
In recent months, India activated three airfields along the 646 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, last used during the 1962 war with China. The army and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police have also stepped up patrolling along the
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-Ar ... 75434.aspx
India is quietly beefing up its defences along the China border in Arunachal Pradesh, even as it publicly downplays the growing diplomatic spat with Beijing over the Dalai Lama’s visit to the state.
The Indian Army will deploy its new 15,000-strong 56 Division in Arunachal, which China claims as its own, within four weeks, a senior defence official told HT, requesting anonymity.
Simultaneously, it has put out a Request for Information (RFI) for acquiring 300 lightweight tanks that can be deployed in the North East and Jammu & Kashmir.
The purpose is to leave nothing to chance, notwithstanding the show of bonhomie between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao at their October 25 meeting in Thailand.
A second division will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months, the official added.
The army’s RFI states the light tanks should be capable of destroying bunkers and soft-skin vehicles up to 3,000m away and should have armour-piercing anti-tank guided missiles and anti-aircraft machine guns.
The RFI, which is in HT’s possession, also stipulates these tanks should “have protection against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare”.
In recent months, India activated three airfields along the 646 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, last used during the 1962 war with China. The army and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police have also stepped up patrolling along the
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-Ar ... 75434.aspx
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Thanks Jarita for collating articles about PRC and its border issues. The article by the Professor is propoganda. He paints abengin picture of the PRC shenanigans.
Crazy to claim that PRC did not occupy the neighbors capitals also called aggression. That went out with the UN Charter for goodness. Being a Prof of Intl relations he should know that.
In all cases seems like the Chinese claimed a lot and the others were relieved when they took only a small part which was crucial for them, but still took it right?
In Chinese and bordering countries there is a saying, "If you want a window ask them to remove the roof!"
I think that summarizes their negotiating strategy.
Crazy to claim that PRC did not occupy the neighbors capitals also called aggression. That went out with the UN Charter for goodness. Being a Prof of Intl relations he should know that.
In all cases seems like the Chinese claimed a lot and the others were relieved when they took only a small part which was crucial for them, but still took it right?
In Chinese and bordering countries there is a saying, "If you want a window ask them to remove the roof!"
I think that summarizes their negotiating strategy.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
They already have the roof - Aksai Chin.
They did not really get anything from Russia if you look at it. They got bits and pieces of territory back - 174 sq km (a lot of territory which had original han names etc and Chinese heritage stayed with Mother Russia).
To your point though we need to claim all the territories under the Kushans. It will go a long way too. These guys claim any piece of land a Han may have spat on. By that logic they will be claiming california tomorrow. Same should be applied to them. But of that the Indian public needs to own the land.
Key is the power equation. Then there is the China Japan border dispute.
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Asi ... lands.html
The islands, which are located roughly midway between Taiwan and Okinawa, Japan, are known as Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyutai in Chinese and are currently under Japanese control. They were given to Tokyo in 1972 after being administered by the United States after World War II. But China claims that the islands have been part of its territory since ancient times.
They did not really get anything from Russia if you look at it. They got bits and pieces of territory back - 174 sq km (a lot of territory which had original han names etc and Chinese heritage stayed with Mother Russia).
To your point though we need to claim all the territories under the Kushans. It will go a long way too. These guys claim any piece of land a Han may have spat on. By that logic they will be claiming california tomorrow. Same should be applied to them. But of that the Indian public needs to own the land.
Key is the power equation. Then there is the China Japan border dispute.
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Asi ... lands.html
The islands, which are located roughly midway between Taiwan and Okinawa, Japan, are known as Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyutai in Chinese and are currently under Japanese control. They were given to Tokyo in 1972 after being administered by the United States after World War II. But China claims that the islands have been part of its territory since ancient times.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
so thoughtful of them. of course, the fact that the border areas inside the PRC were turned into lunar surface by the russian artillery the one time they faced off has nothing to do with it.Instead, it has become less belligerent in bargaining with its neighbors.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
I wonder if we can start the Bakistan type thread for China? We don't understand their psychology that well as we do with the Pakistanis.
It will go a long way in understanding their culture. Any strategy has to be driven by that.
It will go a long way in understanding their culture. Any strategy has to be driven by that.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
We do have one. Its called "Lets understand the Chinese"
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 92&start=0
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 92&start=0
Re: India-China News and Discussions
I could't agree with you more. The only reason China conceded to the Russians was due to Russian military superiority. And even this concession was to China's gain, they got half an island that was originally under Russian control. I have a feeling, they are buying time to become strong and reconquer Siberia slowly, demographically, not necessary a military occupation.Rahul M wrote:so thoughtful of them. of course, the fact that the border areas inside the PRC were turned into lunar surface by the russian artillery the one time they faced off has nothing to do with it.Instead, it has become less belligerent in bargaining with its neighbors.
As for the other border 'concessions', all the weaker countries shared the disputed areas 40:60 or 50:50. Seems fair right? But those areas were not under their control initially and they gained half of each disputed area. So, by this logic, I can just claim Calcutta as a disputed area, negotiate, and share half the territory.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
The ocassion is a book launch about 'dravidian history' and the message is pro-China propaganda...
http://www.hindu.com/2009/11/12/stories ... 561000.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2009/11/12/stories ... 561000.htm
Re: India-China News and Discussions
http://www.zeenews.com/news578258.html
The government is speeding up the process to deploy Indian Army’s 15,000 troops strong 56th division in Arunachal Pradesh within a month.
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Indian Army will also deploy its second division in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months.
The government is speeding up the process to deploy Indian Army’s 15,000 troops strong 56th division in Arunachal Pradesh within a month.
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Indian Army will also deploy its second division in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months.
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derkonig
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
Here comes the sellout..............
Just when one might have entertained thoughts of GoI & MMS standing up to China, true to his style MMS bends over.....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 221054.cms
Just when one might have entertained thoughts of GoI & MMS standing up to China, true to his style MMS bends over.....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 221054.cms
Re: India-China News and Discussions
from ibnderkonig wrote:Here comes the sellout..............
Just when one might have entertained thoughts of GoI & MMS standing up to China, true to his style MMS bends over.....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 221054.cms
Meanwhile, the state government on its part is also denying imposing any restrictions.
Arunachal Pradesh Chief Secretary has said, "All media reports are baseless. We have not suggested anything to the Dalai Lama. He is free to move anywhere in the state. The state government is not doing any rescheduling. His itinerary remains the same."
The restrictions though did not prevent thousands of his followers from gathering at Tawang. For the fourth consecutive day, the town remained closed for about six hours as almost all its residents went to attend the Tibetan leader's discourse.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Its because of Chinese rabble rousing and aggressiveness that many sections in India today are informally debating whether India should reconsider its passive stance on Tibet. They will pretty much end up forcing India to intervene in Tibet if they continue with all the recent rabble rousing and poking around. If that happens they (and also us) will have a bigger problem that what exists right now and rest assured their dreams to dislodge western hegemony will be shot. The Chinese are shooting themselves in the foot with this game. My advice to them: grow a brain, shut up, and go back to sleep. Some problems are worth keeping in order to prevent the problems from turning into an outright disaster.Victor wrote:While this new and surprising display of spine is going on, it is high time India borrowed a page from the chinese book of tactics and inserted some official and visible question marks on Tibet and East Turkestan (xinjiang). We MUST correct Vajpayee's idiotic mistake. The chinese are showing us how to do it daily.
Tibet is India's legitimate ticket to claim Arunachal
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Chindits: Army's first mountain division for China in north east kicks off!
After there have been reports of increased Chinese PLA patrolling and of incursions at the Finger Area, the decision to replace the lighter armoured vehicles with T-72 tanks was taken earlier this year. Soon BMPs and light tanks too would be mobilised in the area, which is at an altitude of 10,000-11,000 feet.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
India declares Chinese stapled visas invalid
NEW DELHI: India on Thursday declared as "invalid" the standalone paper visas given by the Chinese embassy and consulates for Indians from Jammu and
Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh, and issued a travel advisory asking those going to China to ensure their visas are pasted on their passports.
"Such paper visas stapled to the passport are not considered valid for travel out of the country," the external affairs ministry said here in an "important travel advisory on Chinese visas".
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Did anyone watch the CNN-IBN program on Dalai Lama's visit to AP ? N, Ram was openly supporting the Chinese position. The anchors were giving enough full tosses to ht them for sixes.. His body language was quite strange though as he was shivering ..
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Hari Seldon
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
Wonder what the chinis have on Sri NRam....mraghu wrote:Did anyone watch the CNN-IBN program on Dalai Lama's visit to AP ? N, Ram was openly supporting the Chinese position. The anchors were giving enough full tosses to ht them for sixes.. His body language was quite strange though as he was shivering ..
Its not unknown for phoren spy agencies to have real smelly dirt on some of these pimtellectuals in high positions. {High on what though? And compromising positions, no doubt}. No, don't get me wrong, am not suggesting the gent in question has any raunchy tapes or closet skeletons or anything.... but one has to wonder sometimes no....
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Aren't we only hurting our people by doing this? IMO a better option is to start issuing stapled visas to Chinese people wanting to visit India. Better yet start stamping visas saying "National of XXX" on Chinese passports.Rupesh wrote:India declares Chinese stapled visas invalid
Re: India-China News and Discussions
According to Maran, N Ram is a communist party member. That should explain his POV all by itself without any other conspiracy theory.Hari Seldon wrote:Wonder what the chinis have on Sri NRam....
Its not unknown for phoren spy agencies to have real smelly dirt on some of these pimtellectuals in high positions. {High on what though? And compromising positions, no doubt}. No, don't get me wrong, am not suggesting the gent in question has any raunchy tapes or closet skeletons or anything.... but one has to wonder sometimes no....
Re: India-China News and Discussions
Apparently from this link http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Narasimhan-Ram he was a member of SFI,the training ground for future Chinese sympathisers
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putnanja
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
While it may hurt our people in the short term, it will also turn those people against the chinese govt. Also, it is deliberately insulting the chinese.vera_k wrote:Aren't we only hurting our people by doing this? IMO a better option is to start issuing stapled visas to Chinese people wanting to visit India. Better yet start stamping visas saying "National of XXX" on Chinese passports.Rupesh wrote:India declares Chinese stapled visas invalid
If India retaliates by doing same thing to Tibetians, then the Chinese will just ban Tibetians from coming here, as it suits the chinese too. The best thing India can do is to open a consular office in Taiwan, that will get Chinese goat!!
Re: India-China News and Discussions
These will help support our ongoing special operations troops in PRC. Chances of a conflict are very high at present.gandharva wrote:Indian Army to deploy more troops along Arunachal border
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-Ar ... 75434.aspx
Re: India-China News and Discussions
shyamd, what are the objectives of the special force operations that are going on?
Re: India-China News and Discussions
We have Special Ops Troops in PRC ? ( or did u mean near Tibet Border in AP )shyamd wrote:
These will help support our ongoing special operations troops in PRC. Chances of a conflict are very high at present.
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putnanja
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
In visit season, China desists- Hu’s aide puts off India trip amid duel over Dalai Lama
New Delhi, Nov. 12: Beijing has postponed the November 16-20 tour of India by President Hu Jintao’s key troubleshooter, Zhou Yongkang, amid the verbal duels over the Dalai Lama’s trip to Arunachal Pradesh, sources said.
No fresh dates have been mentioned so far for Zhou’s visit.
Indian officials said the “rescheduling” of the visit was a “routine affair” and cited the “mutually convenient date” excuse, but Beijing’s decision follows a Chinese allegation that the Dalai Lama was visiting Tawang under pressure from New Delhi.
Zhou, a member of the Chinese Communist Party’s politburo, has a role in shaping Beijing’s legal, legislative and security agendas. He oversaw security for the Beijing Olympics and was sent to Xinjiang last July by Hu to deal with the ethnic violence there.
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Re: India-China News and Discussions
Reconnaissance and any other intelligence missions/objectives. But Chinese units are also operating inside India... So, both may one day end up in a clash inside India or PRC. The chances are extremely high at present.csharma wrote:shyamd, what are the objectives of the special force operations that are going on?
Rupesh, Yes in AP border areas. The whole point of current deployment of 15-30k men is to support the special forces mission.
NTRO is stepping up interceptions of PRC comms from AP. I think this is the first time NTRO is being used in this area. RAW Chini desk is in dis-array with no leader. The chap who should have become head is now under investigation for corruption for the past month. Its a total mess in Raaw perspective.
Re: India-China News and Discussions
I do not think this is a sell off from GOI. This is a fcuking TOI's irresponsible reporting and they should not have reported this news as main news. The reason I am saying it is not a selloff is because there are troop movements and logistics movement that is happening in AP including Tawang ( read the other links) and hence GOI wanted to curtail the hangama around Dalai Lama. The message of Dalai visiting Tawang and purpose has been served. Obviously they don't want the media to know Army's plans and postures.derkonig wrote:Here comes the sellout..............
Just when one might have entertained thoughts of GoI & MMS standing up to China, true to his style MMS bends over.....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 221054.cms