Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

[p_saggu]

Zardari and the Paki team to the US must have done an IED Mubarak of a litany of complaints or demands, "Give us more AIDS, give us drone tech, give us Eff Solah, give us more AMRAAMS, give us radars so that we can actually fire those AMRAAMS off the eff solahs and not hang them there and fly, don't kill the taliban, get india to negotiate with us - the water problem is begining to hurt us"

The US team must have reached for their tylenon tablets and other migrane medicines, and tried to fudge off most of the issues, but hey there is one issue they could deliver on - they had their boys and gals in delhi who could deliver on the Indo-paki talks.

The rest as we know will be history soon.

[arun]

In a shameful Darfur like rerun the Islamic Republic of Pakistan ditches its fellow Muslims and kow tows to the PRC.

Exiled head of the World Uighur Congress, Ms. Rebiya Kadeer on the behaviour of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and other Muslim majority countries:

Tuesday, July 07, 2009
10:10 Mecca time, 07:10 GMT

Muslim states 'silent' on Uighurs

……………….. "Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria and a number of other Muslim countries as well as the central Asian states like Kazakhstan Kurdistan and Uzbekistan - they all deported Uighurs who had fled Chinese persecution for peacefully opposing Chinese rule, for writing something, for speaking something," she said.

"Those sent back to China were either killed or sentenced to life in jail."

She said the lack of action from Muslim countries contrasted with support given by other governments.

"Our only friend is in the West - Western democracies are supporting us and we are very grateful," Kadeeer, who heads the World Uighur Congress, told reporters.

"We certainly hope that more Muslim countries will raise our situation."

'Propaganda'

Kadeer attributed the lack of action from Muslim countries to what she said was the success of Chinese "propaganda" to the Muslim world.

"So far the Islamic world is silent about the Uighurs' suffering because the Chinese authorities have been very successful in its propaganda to the Muslim world."

That propaganda, she said, sent a message to the Muslim world "that the Uighurs are extremely pro-west Muslims - that they are modern Muslims, not genuine Muslims."

At the same time, she said, to Western countries the Chinese government "labelled Uighur leaders as Muslims terrorists with links to al-Qaeda - so the propaganda has been pretty effective on both sides."........……….........

Al Jazeera

[arun]

An example of how the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has kow towed to the PRC and sent fellow Muslims back to the PRC for execution:

Is this act of the self styled “Land of the Pure” halal?:

Last Updated: Friday, 9 February 2007, 11:06 GMT

China 'executes' Uighur activist

An ethnic Uighur Muslim activist has been executed by China for "attempting to split the motherland", the US-backed Radio Free Asia reports. ………………

Ismail Semed was shot dead in the far western city of Urumqi, capital of the predominantly Muslim Xinjiang province. ……………………

Before his trial, Semed had been deported from Pakistan where he had fled after serving two jail terms for alleged involvement in a violent uprising in 1990. ……………….

BBC

[Duangkomon]

I do agree that security on the ground is the last ring of defence - but we are talking of plugging the hole in the front door to keep the odor out, when the gutter outside is gushing sewage.

A IED mubarak on the gutter will be a good start.

If wishes were horses..... We can all wish for India to be a hard state like Israel with enough assets inside Pakistan to id and target anyone upto Kiyani. And I have no idea to what extent if India even has any such capabilities exist inside Pakistan.

Most of the time we are grasping at straws to find any decisive intentional proactive actions from GOI to support such optimism. But the culture that permeates GOI suggests otherwise.

So hitting the supply outlets seem logical but does not seem like a realistic possibility at the moment. But what we can realistically do without dealing with this resistance to change from a soft state to a hard state is to plug our own security holes.

Regarding the supply of jihadis from Paksitan, I think the Pakjabis are finding it hard to recruit enough jihadi piglets. They harbor fantasies of being all ruthless like their arab masters but know that they are just the progeny of the first line of sdres to keel over and accept islam when push came to shove. The pakjabis are incapable of single minded hatered against the yindians. What they have is loads of jealousy and resentment which is then used by the military/ISI with a lot of relentless islamist jihadi indoctrination to persuade a few of these semi retarded criminals to commit atrocities on innocent people.

The ISI/Lashkar instigators of proxy war against India seem to be educated abroad from the english conversations in the video. They are probably b school graduates from UK or amrika. The jihadi t-shirts and all point to some kind of marketing campaign to attract more "miscreants" to their fold.

[r_subramanian]

A sane voice on how to manage Pakistan's Budget Deficit

In the most recent Pakistani budget, Petroleum Development Levy (which was under challenge in courts, I believe) was replaced by a 'Carbon Tax'. A couple of days ago, the Supreme Court stayed the introduction of Carbon Tax - the result of which would be a shortfall in revenue of Pak Rs. 122 billion (= US$ 1.5 billion). This morning Pak government has reintroduced Petroleum Development Levy via an ordinance. Please read on.

Petroleum levy ordinance could be challenged: Justice(r) Nasir
KARACHI: Justice(R) Nasir Aslam Zahid said the petroleum levy ordinance could be challenge in the court.

Talking to Geo News, he said president could impose any law on the advice of prime minister when parliament not in session but any law could be challenged.

Replying to a question, Justice(R) Nasir said government should cut defence budget to get the revenue targets of Rs.122 billion and negotiate with coalition partners including US to give relief to masses.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=82475

[AmitR]

An example of how the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has kow towed to the PRC and sent fellow Muslims back to the PRC for execution:

More than that it shows the true power of China. Everyone knows that China will take you by the balls and screw your a** if you try to help the Jihadis. Now contrast that with India and you will get the picture.

[p_saggu]

A sane voice on how to manage Pakistan's Budget Deficit

Replying to a question, Justice(R) Nasir said government should cut defence budget to get the revenue targets of Rs.122 billion and negotiate with coalition partners including US to give relief to masses.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=82475

Sounds more like "reduce the defence budget, the US is as it is willing to compensate the military."

[RajeshA]

Pakistan's silence on the question of Uyghur suppression by PRC should become a long-term stick to beat the GoP, whenever they start talking about Muslim victimhood in Palestine, Kashmir or even in Rest of India.

As far as the Islamic countries reaction to the Uighur Movement, Pakistan has an extradition treaty with China and considers all Uighur Movements as terrorist organisations. In Mar 2002 Ismail Kadir, the third highest leader of the ETIM, captured in Pakistan was returned to China. Ismail Semed, another leader captured in Pakistan and convicted in Oct 2005 was executed in Urumqi. Pakistan Army killed Hasan Mahsum, another Uighur leader in South Waziristan in Oct 2003 and Musharraf during his Nov 2003 visit to China unequivocally stated that Pakistan will not allow any anti China activity on the soil of Pakistan including those of the East Turkestan terrorists.

I also wonder how the Indian Muslims are reacting to disturbances in East Turkestan, and whether they are familiar with Pakistan's betrayal not only of the Islamic Cause, but also condoning the suppression of Muslims, not being able to freely practice their religion.

Really a cause for shame on Pakistan! They are not worth the eight letters in their country's name!

[r_subramanian]

5 security men killed in Jaccobabad mine blast

Updated at: 1525 PST, Thursday, July 09, 2009
JACCOBABAD: Five security officials have been killed when their vehicles hit a landmine near Jaccobabad on Thursday.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=82497

[RajeshA]

X-Posting from Oppression of minorities in Pakistan and Bangla Desh Thread

Pakistani Treatment of Women

A bit OT, Mods please delete if not appropriate here

I will like to share to some good news with Pakistani lurkees. There is hope for you! Now that it is clear that hard-core Islamists are going to take over Pakistan, you all need to make plans.

Here is the story of Sabatina:

Translation from the report and video:

As a young girl of 10 she came to Austria with her family. With 18 she was supposed to marry her cousin. She resisted. She gathered her courage and said, "No, I am not going to marry Salman. I don't want to. That was the first time some girl in my family had said no to marriage, arranged by the parents. Then my mother came in. My cousin sisters sat around. Then she hit me very hard. I screamed for help, but they all sat there and looked on." She managed to flee from Pakistan. Then she found refuge in a Battered Women's Shelter. Later she changed her religion to Christianity, a capital sin in Islam. That is why a friend of her father threatened her to kill her. The threat is still there. She must often change her residence and phone numbers.

That doesn't stop her from encouraging other women to do the same. Sabatina says, "I want to encourage all the women out there, that a woman does not need to hide herself behind her veil, when one goes out, and one does not need to give in to a forced marriage with one's cousin, but one can realize one's dreams." That is why she has published her experiences in a book, and founded an association Sabatina e.V., a forum for all women who like her have been victims of violence. Today she is very much in demand as a guest in political round-table discussions. A few months back, she dared to travel to Pakistan again, freed from the shackles of family as a traveler between the worlds. She is distressed from the destitution, the misery about which the women report, and the violence by the feudals there.

"The women are raped, and one told me, that, 'I was raped, in the same tent (they have no houses), in which my daughter was being raped. So, together'". For these children and women, Sabatina has started a project, in which with donations she wants to build a Women's Sanctuary.

..And she was also able to realize another dream of hers. As a young kid, she wanted to be a singer. With Singer Metaphysics from the Band Die Sönne Mannheims on her side, she is recording her first Album.

Report

Video

Interviews on YouTube

Sabatina Association

Book: Sterben sollst du für dein Glück: Gefangen zwischen zwei Welten (Die for your Happiness: Prisoner between two worlds) by Sabatina James

Book: Vom Islam zum Christentum - ein Todesurteil (From Islam to Christianity - A Death Sentence) by Sabatina James

[NRao]

India, Pakistan PMs set to meet in Egypt

[Dipanker]

5 security men killed in Jaccobabad mine blast

Updated at: 1525 PST, Thursday, July 09, 2009
JACCOBABAD: Five security officials have been killed when their vehicles hit a landmine near Jaccobabad on Thursday.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=82497

IED Mubarak Pakistan!

[SSridhar]

A Formidable Enemy - Rahimullah Yusufzai

Now, Rahimullah Yusufzai is no ordinary guy and he knows a thing or two about the Taliban. Posting in full.

The two-month old military campaign against the militants in the NWFP has now expanded to newer and more dangerous places, such as South Waziristan. This has created a real risk that neighbouring North Waziristan could become the new battlefield, and the conflict could then spill over into adjoining districts in the southern part of the province. Indications of such an eventuality are already visible.

The military operations could unwittingly engulf a much wider area than anticipated. Such a move would not only over-stretch Pakistan’s armed forces, but also prompt the Taliban groups to set aside their differences and join forces to face the challenge.

In fact, in their battle for survival, some of the Pakistani Taliban commanders, such as Hafiz Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan and Maulvi Nazeer in South Waziristan’s Wana area, have already taken the first steps towards extending cooperation to Baitullah Mehsud {vindicates my earlier assessment that Gul Bahadur & Nazeer are together in supporting Baitullah now} in resisting the latest Pakistan Army onslaught against him. Their alliance, Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahideen, or the Council of the Alliance of Mujahideen, which was dormant since its launch in February 2009, is now active and is coordinating the military activities of the three militant groups to fight their common enemy – primarily the US-led coalition forces across the border in Afghanistan, and now increasingly, the Pakistani military within the country’s borders. Attacks in the last week of June by the militants led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur on military convoys on the Miramshah-Mir Ali road and in the Madakhel area in North Waziristan – which killed over 40 soldiers {I think Pakistan admitted to the loss of only 27 soldiers} and left scores injured – and the rocketing of the FC camp in Wana by fighters loyal to Maulvi Nazeer, were clear signs that the Taliban in the three different war theatres were coming together to tackle Pakistan’s security forces.

One by one, the peace deals painstakingly negotiated by tribal jirgas are unravelling. The two peace treaties that the government concluded with Baitullah Mehsud, one in February 2005 and the other subsequently in 2008, no longer exist. In fact, these agreements have been invalid since Baitullah Mehsud first unleashed his suicide bombers to spread death and destruction in the country’s urban centres and for the first time claimed responsibility for all such attacks. The peace accords are now simply a scrap of paper, as Baitullah Mehsud was accused of assassinating Benazir Bhutto and became the most wanted man in Pakistan, with head-money placed on him by both Islamabad – offering Rs 50 million, or about $600,000 – and Washington, willing to pay a huge reward of $5 million, or Rs 410 million. The two peace deals in Swat, one directly with the Taliban, headed by Maulana Fazlullah, and the other with his father-in-law Maulana Sufi Mohammad, also predictably collapsed and, on both occasions, triggered more death and destruction than previously seen.

Only one peace treaty is still in place – in Wana, capital of South Waziristan – between Maulvi Nazeer and the government. But it is coming under strain due to the rising tension between the militants and the government elsewhere in the tribal areas. On paper, a peace accord also currently exists in Bajaur. But the militants in the region, led by Maulana Faqir Mohammad, deputy leader of the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), have been openly violating the deal, by refusing to surrender or even curb their activities.

On June 29, the Taliban militants in North Waziristan unilaterally scrapped their February 18, 2008, peace agreement with the government, after accusing the armed forces of cooperating with the US in carrying out drone attacks against them. Through their spokesman, Ahmadullah Ahmadi, they warned that there could be no peace with the government unless the missile strikes by the pilotless US planes in North Waziristan were halted. Ahmadi also asserted that there had been over 50 US drone strikes in North Waziristan since the signing of the peace agreement that have killed hundreds of people, including women and children.

Their second complaint concerned the recent military operation in the Frontier Region (FR) Bannu, which Hafiz Gul Bahadur considers part of his fiefdom. The military action in the Janikhel and Bakkakhel areas of FR Bannu was launched to punish the militants and the local tribes, under the collective responsibility clause of the infamous Frontier Crimes Regulations (FCR), for failing to prevent the kidnapping of around 100 students of Cadet College, Razmak, and some of their teachers. It was suspected that militants loyal to Hafiz Gul Bahadur may have cooperated with Baitullah Mehsud’s men in kidnapping the (mostly teenaged) cadets in the FR Bannu area. The cadets were eventually freed unharmed due to the intervention of the strong Torikhel Wazir tribal jirga, which had threatened to take action against the kidnappers as they had guaranteed the security of the college and its students because it was located in their area.

This marked the second time that the North Waziristan militants unilaterally trashed their peace accord with the government. The first such peace deal was concluded on September 5, 2006, and scrapped 10 months later, when the militants accused the security forces of re-erecting roadside checkpoints that had been dismantled under the terms of the accord. The government, on its part, charged the militants with violating the peace agreement with impunity by setting up a parallel administration, harbouring foreign fighters and carrying out the targeted killings of pro-establishment tribal elders.

The September 2006 peace deal in North Waziristan was roundly criticised by the US and its allies, including other western nations and the Afghan government. It was blamed for an increase in the cross-border infiltration of Afghan and Pakistani Taliban to attack the coalition forces in Afghanistan. In fact, this prompted the US to put its foot down and oppose any future peace arrangements by the Pakistan government with its home-grown militants. This was evident when it opposed the peace deals in Swat, Bajaur and elsewhere. The US had, by then, made it clear that the Pakistan Armed Forces – as a recipient of American aid in the shape of weapons and money – were required to undertake sustained military action against the irreconcilable militants, instead of making peace with them.

The collapse of the latest North Waziristan peace agreement, which was incidentally signed one day before the February 18, 2008, general elections and thus enabled the government to hold polls for the lone National Assembly seat from the area with the help of the militants, could have serious implications. Hafiz Gul Bahadur has reportedly linked the revival of the peace treaty to an end not only to the US drone attacks and the military operation in FR Bannu, but also to the ongoing action against Baitullah Mehsud in neighbouring South Waziristan. For the government, however, this would mean conceding too much to the militants, as the armed forces have already initiated action against Mehsud, while intelligence agencies have created divisions in his ranks by strengthening a rival faction of militants led by Misbahuddin Mehsud, who took over after the recent assassination of his brother Qari Zainuddin by a Baitullah man who had infiltrated the group. Besides, the Pakistan government may be unable or unwilling to stop the Americans from using their missile-fitted drones to target the militants.

There have been no US drone attacks in North Waziristan for two months now, a point that was raised by a jirga of tribal elders that met Hafiz Gul Bahadur to persuade him not to scrap his peace deal with the government. But the enigmatic Hafiz, who operates with utmost secrecy and hasn’t given an interview or interacted with the media, was unmoved. It seems he remains convinced that the security forces would go after him once they have dealt with Baitullah Mehsud, and is therefore ready to enter the battle now with Baitullah and Maulvi Nazeer.

Were the military to take action against Hafiz Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan and, in response to a provocation, start fighting Maulvi Nazeer in Wana and Shakai in South Waziristan as well, the concept of ‘good Taliban’ and ‘bad Taliban’ would be consigned to the dustbin, at least for the time-being. These two Pakistani Taliban commanders were, until now, regarded as the ‘good Taliban’ because they were reluctant to fight the Pakistani security forces or sponsor suicide bombings and were, instead, focusing more on assisting the Afghan Taliban in resisting the US-led foreign forces in Afghanistan. In contrast, Baitullah Mehsud and his allies in the tribal areas, Swat and elsewhere, and those affiliated to the TTP, were referred to as the ‘bad Taliban.’ Once this distinction ends, the military will be free to target all militants, wherever they exist. The battlelines will then be clearly drawn. However, this would also unify all the militants and the disparate jihadi groups, turning them into a formidable enemy.

One strong argument against taking on all the Taliban militants at one time is that this would over-stretch the security forces, threaten their supply lines and increase the risk of retaliatory bomb explosions, including suicide attacks in the country’s towns and cities. The destabilisation resulting from such a massive military action could be much greater than hitherto experienced. This would signal the failure of the classic ‘divide and rule’ tactic, that has routinely been the method of choice for the secret services to weaken and demoralise the militants.

An equally powerful counter-argument, on the other hand, points out that military action against militants operating in different tribal areas and districts would force powerful commanders like Baitullah Mehsud to commit their fighters to stay put in their native areas, to defend their own strongholds. In such a scenario, he and the other strong Taliban commanders would not be able to send their fighters to other fronts to reinforce their allies.

Whatever strategy is adopted by the army high command, it is obvious that this is going to be a long and difficult battle. Counter-insurgency operations are also different and far more comprehensive than conventional ones with political and development segments designed to isolate the militants and win hearts and minds. In addition, while using traditional military force to destroy the militants’ positions, aerial strikes and artillery shelling may help the armed forces to achieve certain objectives. These invariably cause civilian deaths and large-scale displacement, as we saw in Bajaur, Mohmand, Swat, Buner and Dir, and are now likely to witness in South Waziristan, North Waziristan, Orakzai and other districts. Some battles would be won, but far more important is winning the war. And that cannot happen without winning and retaining the support of the people, particularly those in the battlezones.

[RajeshA]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Waning power of Taliban: Editorial: Daily Times

More significantly, the Taliban “emirate” of Baitullah Mehsud is fraying at the seams. Commanders unhappy with his policies in the past are now breaking ranks and declaring open rebellion against him. There can be two reasons for their rebellion: that the military operation is having the desired psychological effect; and that more and more Taliban are convinced that Baitullah’s enterprise is not going to ripen into a full-fledged state inside Pakistan. Ever more striking is the development of a counterforce in Tank and Dera Ismail Khan — headed by the “Abdullah” and “Turkistan” groups — willing to fight the Taliban.

A feeble effort at psy-ops. Pakistani Taliban are not going anywhere. They are here to stay and breed.

Unfortunately, the scale of the “refugee crisis” that has come in the wake of the military action is casting gloom over what should normally have been welcomed as victory.

Anti-TTP groups control Tank, DI Khan by Iqbal Khattak: Daily Times

And what does the Government control?

[SSridhar]

Zardari's admission, a 'healthy' sign: Tharoor

". . .We certainly would like action that shows his (Zardari's) serious change of heart when it comes to such activities emanating from Pakistani territory against our country," Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor told reporters

That's the mistake we make by assuming things that were not said. Pakistan has certainly said nothing about India. Tharoor is imagining things and that was precisely the intention of Zardari as well, leaving his statement to be interpreted by India to its liking, knowing fully well that the Indians would fall for it. Nobody who follows Pakistan can say that it has decided to reverse its policy of using jihadis and terrorists against India. The tortuous history of admission of guilt and the subsequent process of investigating and prosecuting the masterminds, planners and handlers is still panning out. How about those two Army officers that Kasab had identified ? So far, Pakistan has not moved an inch on 26/11 leave alone the scores of other terror strikes in the past.

[Bhima]

Edited. Moved elsewhere.

[Karkala Joishy]

If wishes were horses..... We can all wish for India to be a hard state like Israel with enough assets inside Pakistan to id and target anyone upto Kiyani. And I have no idea to what extent if India even has any such capabilities exist inside Pakistan.

Just a thought, would there be a higher probability that India would be a hard state if we were all (at least 95+) Hindus in India? Or maybe even 95%+ Indic religions (Hindus + Sikhs + Buddhists + Jains etc)? The reality today is that the Government is pulled in various directions. If they do something that makes the Hindus happy, the Muslims are unhappy and the ruling party is afraid of the voting implications. If they backpedal, then the Hindus are not as happy, but might make the Christians unhappy. So the Government finds it prudent to do nothing and maintain the status quo.

If this is the real reason, then unfortunately nothing can be done about it.

[RajeshA]

SSridhar garu,

Baitullah Mehsud, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, Maulvi Nazir seem to be coming together, and would probably fight together against the Pakistani forces. Fazlullah may join them when he feels better.

Misbahuddin Mahsud in Dera Ismail Khan, Turkestani Bhittani in Tank, some Commander Amir Thesil seem to be opposing Baitullah. These seem to be aligned with the Pakistani Army.

Up till now, the Haqqani Network has mostly been active in Afghanistan.

What I am wondering is whether Sirajuddin Haqqani would be willing to side with Baitullah Mehsud as well and send his men to fight the Pakistani Army.

The Taliban are being pounded right now from all sides. Wouldn't it be worthwhile for them to concentrate on one side of the bordere, namely Pakistan. The point is, they don't really need to fight in Afghanistan, except to secure their poppy harvests. Once the Americans leave, they always have the option of going back to insurgency and power. This can happen even before they leave. South Afghanistan is anyway their territory. Americans are guests for a short time.

However if they do not come to the aid of their comrades-in-arms their progress in Pakistan, their gains may get thwarted. Wouldn't they like to profit from the Pakistani economy rather than be dependent on their Afghanistan operations? The Pakistani economy is much bigger. Secondly the Americans cannot follow them into Pakistan itself, not in the populated areas, so they will be much safer in Pakistan.

Would like to know your opinion on how the Afghan Taliban are viewing the war Pakistan is waging on their name-sakes in Pakistan!

[anupmisra]

Hubris, puki style

The vanishing mountains

Scriptures tell us of the mountains holding the earth from falling apart.

Haraam!

And luckily the place that Divinity chose to provide that needed grip and sustenance to the earth happened to be none other than Pakistan as it is home to the world’s famous mountainous triumvirate, the Himalayas, Karakoram and the Hindu Kush.

[ramana]

We need to define the groups and identify them correctly. My drafting book says "Calling things by right name is begining of wsidom!"


I name Baitullah Mehsud and is cohorts fighting for self determination as Pakiban. The others are all sarakri Taliban on both sides of the Durand Line. By sarkari Taliban I mean they are TSPA supported Army of Allah types. Now the ones operating in Afghanistan side are the ones being droned.

So Pakiban =

Baitullah Mehsud, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, Maulvi Nazir seem to be coming together, and would probably fight together against the Pakistani forces. Fazlullah may join them when he feels better.

Sarkari Taliban =

Misbahuddin Mahsud in Dera Ismail Khan, Turkestani Bhittani in Tank, some Commander Amir Thesil seem to be opposing Baitullah. These seem to be aligned with the Pakistani Army.

bad Taliban =

Up till now, the Haqqani Network has mostly been active in Afghanistan.

As all generalizations, this is also general.

[harbans]

Just a thought, would there be a higher probability that India would be a hard state if we were all (at least 95+) Hindus in India? Or maybe even 95%+ Indic religions (Hindus + Sikhs + Buddhists + Jains etc)? The reality today is that the Government is pulled in various directions. If they do something that makes the Hindus happy, the Muslims are unhappy and the ruling party is afraid of the voting implications. If they backpedal, then the Hindus are not as happy, but might make the Christians unhappy. So the Government finds it prudent to do nothing and maintain the status quo.


Yes it would be much harder. No doubts about it. The dhimmi attitude the people in power in our recen hisory have taken is primarily, because of the large Islamic influence prevalent. This attitude we translated in our relaions to China and their aggression in Tibet. If there were 95% Indic/ Dharmic faiths in the nation, the take to Chinese or Paki aggression would be very different. Though i cannot say it would be like Israels. Subject for thought indeed. Good post for analysis and thought. Would WE be different if Middle East, Abrahmic religions were not in our midst.

[harbans]

More significantly, the Taliban “emirate” of Baitullah Mehsud is fraying at the seams. Commanders unhappy with his policies in the past are now breaking ranks and declaring open rebellion against him. There can be two reasons for their rebellion: that the military operation is having the desired psychological effect; and that more and more Taliban are convinced that Baitullah’s enterprise is not going to ripen into a full-fledged state inside Pakistan. Ever more striking is the development of a counterforce in Tank and Dera Ismail Khan — headed by the “Abdullah” and “Turkistan” groups — willing to fight the Taliban.

I feel Taqiyya and the retread Hudaibya thing is quite prevalent in Islam. They'll massacre, loot if you're weak. If you're strong, they'll give allegiance and quote from Mohammeds early peaceful phases. Same like percenage population, when less than 1 %, ou'll really like the the practitioners. Ge it above a threshold and riots, and slightly more, Sharia. IF in Majority..minority is screwed.

Even Mushy in 2002, quoted Mohammeds retreat in a speech while talking peace with India under US pressure, mentioned here just a day or two back by a guru. NO treaty with Kufr is binding. It is to bide time.

Bhima: Nice video...and yes it was not communal one bi.

[RajeshA]

Sarkari Taliban

Sarkari Taliban = Sarkariban

[Anujan]

Wow.

Almost as if Langley were ghost writing Sri Zardari's WashPost farticles. Godo going, AAZ is less bad than I thought.

vsudhir-saar

Too early to celebrate. Note that
1. It is not clear if AAZ is in control at all. There is ashphuck and there is groper and then there is Nawaz with all of his eye-ass-eye and talibunnie connections. How much pull does AAZ have ?

2. This AAZ character is quite slimy. He was the one who benefited the most from the sunroof lever incident. Not long ago he went on TV and declared "Quasab is not bakistani " Where was the expression of regret or embarrassment for any of that ?

3. We should not discount the fact that he is playing along to make sure that the arms and Baksheesh from unkil keeps flowing

4. We should not discount the fact that he might be hand in glove with the establishment to play the good cop-bad cop routine (One arm of Pakistani guvrmand does the terrorist thing and the other arm expresses regret and concern)

5. I will reserve my praise after two things get done (a) Mumbai plotters are caught and jailed. (b) Deployment of Paki army on the east is thinned. The thinning the deployment part is important. It would signify that the pakis are going to go slow on the terrorism (The reason they have such heavy deployment is to deter the yindoos from going in with their guns blazing after the next terror attack. Heavy deployment in the border, brandishing nukes and not detaining or charging perpetrators are support actions for the terror strategy). Together these \actions signify (atleast in the short term) that training and support for the pigs is going to go slow.

[ramana]

Most Indian elite has a mispercieved sense of tolerance which allows problems to fester and grow. The injunction to not hurt other beings is taken to extreme and even those who will harm you are not squashed even after evidence. Am reading the three vol "Advanced History of Medieval India" by J.L. Mehta, Delhi Uty, which gives numerous instances of this trait. Indian elite never made the connection in the past and in the future, that its Islam that drives the Islamic surge and are always fooled by any one who claims religious dispensation. They always welcomed the Sufis who were path finders to the Islamised Turco-Afghans. That old tolerance of seeing God in everything prevents them from recognizing evils confronting them.

[r_subramanian]

Beijing’s interests are Islamabad’s interests

Pakistan's official point-of-view on the recent unrest in China

Some 'elements' out to harm Sino-Pak ties
Pakistan on Thursday said that some ‘elements’ wanted to harm Pak-China relations and damage the interests of old friendly nations but Islamabad and Beijing would not allow them to succeed.
Answering a query at his weekly press briefing about the ongoing unrest in northwestern Chinese city of Urumqi and Pakistan’s position on the issue, the Foreign Office Spokesman Abdul Basit said that China was the all-weather friend of Pakistan. “There are some ‘elements’ which are working against the interests of Pakistan and China and the two countries will continue to make bilateral efforts to ensure that those elements do not destabilise or damage interests of the two countries,” he said.
He said Pakistan was committed not to allow any element in the country to work against the interests of China because Beijing’s interests were Islamabad’s interests.
...

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... noPak-ties

[Prem]

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... republic/1
A mango republic?
By Dr Ass.ho. Khayal
( Dr/ Mareej Khayal Sahib, dont tell me Pakistan is not a Peach bottom nation )

Inflation is more violent in the country than the Taliban. It is flinging more and more Pakistanis below the poverty-line. The capability of the masses to buy electricity is declining at a shocking rate. If electricity keeps becoming more and more expensive, the time must soon come when a poor Pakistani would look at the skies and beg: "Please Heaven! I can't buy electricity. Can't you bless me with the owl's eyes?"
Our survival depends on our exports. We expect industrial goods and fruits. The load-shedding is playing havoc with our industries. Our fruits are a gift of nature. We export various kinds of fruits. Probably, mangoes top the list. If our industrial exports keep declining, we will have to depend largely on mangoes.
In Central America, there are some very poor countries known as Banana republics. They survive on their banana-exports and foreign aid. Let's pray that Pakistan does not become a mango republic.
( Sir "Pakistani" head Mr Zardari have already proved that Pakistan is not a mango nation but internatioanally recognized "mungo" nation )

[shaardula]

maango republic it already is.

[NRao]

Pak yesterday: We created terror; Pak today: Hmmm we didn't mean that

Pakistan is scared that this thread will end.

[Gerard]

Pakistan has lost Kashmir plank: Pakistani media

Holding that both Pakistan and India "have suffered immense losses due to terrorism", the editorial said: "They then stand to gain from coming together."

"But if this is to happen, India must accept it too has made many errors and committed many wrongs that need to be righted. Simply making demands on others while failing to correct one's own mistakes serves very little useful purpose.

"India needs to demonstrate it deserves a status as 'big brother' in the region by setting the right example and, by doing so, winning the respect of its smaller neighbours," the editorial maintained.

Dawn, too, focused on the theme of terrorism, saying the two countries should focus on the scourge that "threatens the peace and stability of South Asia".

"It is important that neither government provide any kind of sanctuary to terrorists operating against the other in the misplaced belief that this strategy promotes its political interest.

"It is time both realised that terrorism is a double-edged sword that also destroys its protector and patron

[Raj Malhotra]

Zardari admits terrorism nurtured by govt for tactical use

``Once the Soviets were defeated, the Americans took the next bus out of town, leaving behind a political vacuum that ultimately led to the Talibanization and radicalization of Afghanistan, the birth of Al-Qaeda and the current jihadi insurrection in Pakistan.''

This is rank opportunism. The US did not leave the place as abruptly as they claim. They secretly continued to supply arms and send in funds for the mujahideen. It was Pakistan which created the mess with its desire to have a Government of its liking that would serve only its interests.

By the way, the guy who really deserted that place was OBL who ran back to Saudi Arabia and with the heavy defeat of Jalalabad (the only war he fought for all his claims of being a mujahideen) hanging heavily over his head.

CORRECT


Plus Pak and USA together created Taliban to take over Afghanistan and Central Asia. Clinton brigade wanted to use Islamic fundoos in Bosnia and also against Indian in J&K and through Bangladesh. Perhaps in strategic ties with Saudis and China.

Clinton real face still has to be read. If Hillary follows same route then there are lot of tough times ahead.

[Prem]

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... tate-hs-06
Jihad and the state

Twice this week President Assof Ali Zardari has spoken about the root of Pakistan’s problems with religious extremism and militancy. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, the president said that the military’s erstwhile ‘strategic assets’ were the ones against whom military operations were now required. And in a meeting with retired senior bureaucrats in Islamabad on Tuesday, Mr Zardari was reported in this paper to have said that ‘militants and extremists had been deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives’.
The president is right, and we would add the policy was wrong then and it is wrong now. It cannot be any other way. How is it possible to rationally explain to the people of Pakistan that the heroes of yesteryear are the arch-enemies of today? The militants’ religious justifications remain the same; what’s changed is that the militants were fighting the state’s ‘enemies’ yesterday but have turned their guns on the state and its allies today

[SSridhar]

Misbahuddin Mahsud in Dera Ismail Khan, Turkestani Bhittani in Tank, some Commander Amir Thesil seem to be opposing Baitullah. These seem to be aligned with the Pakistani Army.

A little bit of history. Misbahuddin's predecessor Qari Zainuddin, whom Baitullah eliminated, was Abdullah Mehsud's cousin. The assassination of Abdullah Mehsud in Balochistan in 2006 was blamed on the complicity and joint efforts between Baitullah and the ISI. Thus, Baitullah, now an implacable enemy of the PA carrying huge rewards on his head, himself was a sarkari Taliban once upon a time. The PA is propping up Misbahuddin as the commander of the 'Abdullah Group'. The nomenclature 'Abdullah Group' is itself largely a part of PA's psy-op to invest this rebel group with some aura of Abdullah mehsud and drive a wedge among the Mehsuds. The normal tactic of the ISI has been to splinter the jihadi groups when they reach a certain large size so that they can handle them easily and pit one against the other to keep them under check. We have seen this in J&K as well. Bhittani was a former Frontier Corps soldier and it is no wonder he has been easily instigated by the PA. The Abdullah Group, the Bhittani group are thus ISI-created.

However, the fact that Qari Zainuddin was assassinated in an ISI-provided safe house in DI Khan (not even in FATA), had to be buried in a Shi'a grave in DI Khan itself and not in the Mehsud tribal area of South Waziristan clearly show who really is poweful in South Waziristan.

Up till now, the Haqqani Network has mostly been active in Afghanistan.

While it is true, they have been also tasked by Mullah Omar to ensure that the factional fight among the TTP groups does not get out of hand. Sirajuddin Haqqani is to be really credited with the success of resolving the dispute between Baitullah on the one hand and Gul/Nazeer on the other hand.

What I am wondering is whether Sirajuddin Haqqani would be willing to side with Baitullah Mehsud as well and send his men to fight the Pakistani Army.

I believe (and as Rahimullah Yusufzai has stated), there may not be a need immediately for the Afghan Taliban or Haqqani (he is not a Taliban, BTW), to send reinforcements to Baitullah. If Gul Bahadur, Maulvi Nazeer and Baitullah jointly take on the PA, across a wide front stretching from Bajaur up north to Wana down south with a few suicide blasts thrown in Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and Karachi, the PA will find it difficult to press on with its offensive.

The Taliban are being pounded right now from all sides. Wouldn't it be worthwhile for them to concentrate on one side of the bordere, namely Pakistan. The point is, they don't really need to fight in Afghanistan, except to secure their poppy harvests. Once the Americans leave, they always have the option of going back to insurgency and power. This can happen even before they leave. South Afghanistan is anyway their territory. Americans are guests for a short time.

In fact, I do not think that much fighting is going on in Afghanistan. No doubt that the NATO-ISAF forces have suffered their worst casualties this year. Up until June 2009, there have been 400 attacks on them which is a new low in the 7-year period. The surge of US troops have been sweeping through Helmand without much resistance from the Taliban and the Talibani commander has stated that they do not want to engage them now. Sooner, Taliban will engage them in the classic guerrilla warfare. It is the drones that is the biggest worry for the Taliban both in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It remains to be seen how successful would the eradication of poppy be in Helmand.

[negi]

-deleted...OT -

[SSridhar]

No more discussion on the above particular issue in this thread. I will delete all posts as they are all OT here.

[chetak]

What!, no protests from the porkis or Indian dhimmis


‘Mosques shutdown in Urumqi ahead of Friday prayers ’

URUMQI: The normally bustling mosques of China’s Urumqi city were ordered shut on the main Muslim day of prayers on Friday with police out in force to prevent new outbreaks of deadly ethnic unrest.

Uighur Muslims said they had been directed to pray at home, as armed forces saturated the streets of the northwest Xinjiang region’s capital five days after clashes that authorities said left 156 people dead.

[Vivek_A]

TFT is out

bloviator in chief

Pakistan’s assets and liabilities

Najam Sethi's E d i t o r i a l

President Asif Zardari has a lot of guts. He has publicly admitted past facts that are a source of much current anguish, pain and embarrassment for the state and government of Pakistan. He recently told a foreign newspaper that Pakistan’s former “assets” – the Jihadis and Mujahideen and Taliban – had now become “liabilities” who were posing an existential threat to the state and country. He delivered much the same message the other day to a gathering of retired bureaucrats in Islamabad: “the terrorists of today are the heroes of yesteryear…militancy and extremism emerged on the national scene and challenged the state not because the civil bureaucracy was weakened and demoralised, but because they were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives.”

This is an articulation of “change” through a “redefinition” of an old policy. It was necessary after the “new policy” of confronting the Taliban was actually executed on the ground by the military last month when it went into Malakand and then into Waziristan. It is, of course, a good sign that the troika of prime minister, president and army chief have met twice in the last few days to send the right signals to all the internal and external players.

Events support Mr Zardari’s bold assertion. Qari Ilyas Zain, a Guantanamo Bay veteran and an Al Qaeda commander who was behind the bombing of a restaurant in Islamabad in 2008, has been arrested by the police, like all the terrorists behind the attack on Rescue 15 and ISI office in Lahore, the terrorists involved in the attack on the Manawan police training centre and those who tried to kidnap the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore. The army is killing the Taliban in the Malakand region and the drones are doing their bit too – on Tuesday a drone strike in South Waziristan destroyed a stronghold of the Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud, killing 12 including two commanders and some “foreign” terrorists. More significantly, the Taliban “emirate” of Baitullah Mehsud is fraying at the seams. His commanders are now becoming rebellious because the military operation is having the desired psychological effect of convincing them that Baitullah’s enterprise is doomed. It is even more significant that there is now a counterforce in Tank and Dera Ismail Khan – headed by “Abdullah” and “Turkistan” groups – willing to fight the Taliban.

President Zardari has also had the courage to speak up in favour of unconditional peace and normalization with India. In a sense, he is carrying the torch forward from where General Musharraf himself left it in 2007 after a radical about-turn in strategic thinking in 2004 about the nature of the threat from India and the future prospects of Kashmir. But there is one difference. Even as both say that the Taliban is the real threat rather than India, Mr Zardari makes no bones about the need for an unequivocal about-turn in India policy while General Musharraf hums and haws tactically in deference to decades of carefully nurtured “anti-India sensitivities” in the military.

Three factors are also compelling a rethink in the military establishment about the demerits of the Taliban as future assets in Afghanistan. First, America seems to have dug in for the long haul. It has strengthened its agreement with Kyrghistan which provides it an airbase for operations in Afghanistan. The summit between Presidents Barack Obama and Dmitri Medvedev at the Kremlin last Monday also produced an agreement that will let the NATO-US forces fly their troops and weapons in 4500 military flights per year across Russian territory, enabling the US to further diversify the crucial transportation routes used to move troops and critical equipment to re-supply international forces in Afghanistan. The joint statement issued after the summit was significant: “The two countries (Russia and US) will work together to help stabilise Afghanistan, including increasing assistance to the Afghan army and police, and training counter-narcotics personnel. They will work together with the international community for the upcoming Afghan elections and they will help Afghanistan and Pakistan work together against the common threats of terrorism, extremism and drug trafficking.”

Second, the recent troop surge in Helmand and the intensification of the drone attacks on Pakistani-Taliban positions in Waziristan suggest that both Pakistan and America now see a common enemy.

Third, President Zardari has openly said that Afghan President Hamid Karzai is a “friend” with whom the government of Pakistan is prepared to work in the long run. This means that Pakistan will not try to destabilize the forthcoming Afghan elections which are sure to return Mr Karzai as president for another term. This is a far cry from the military establishment’s earlier point of view of Mr Karzai as a long-tern Indian asset.

All this is for the good of the region. The best part of the news is that India is no longer prickly at the mention of a solution to Kashmir by the Pakistanis or even the Americans. Indeed, a string of American and British diplomats have gone to India to say as much. This is because India knows that the solution that everyone, including Pakistan, has in mind for Kashmir is one which India can live with – maximum autonomy minus secession.

[pgbhat]

deleted OT sorry

[Vivek_A]

Such Gup


True patriots

The son of our highly efficient Min for Water and Power affairs told a friend an interesting story. His dad, he said, is such a true patriot that he does not allow generators and the like in his home. He says he wants to be just like ordinary mortals who suffer in this blinding heat without electricity and water. The min’s family naturally objected to these enforced privations and the gent had to think up a solution which did not compromise his obvious patriotism. He sent the family away to London for the summer, reported his son to his friend in all sincerity.

Good buddies

Jemima Khan and Fatima Bhutto have apparently become good buddies. Our mole says they meet occasionally in London and have discovered that they have much in common. One is a visceral aversion to the Bhutto-Zardaris, including the late Mohtarma, and especially her Hubby. Another is their interest in politics and the world of letters. Jemima has apparently vouched for the fact that the George Clooney-Fatima Bhutto rumour is just that and has no basis in reality.

From Waziristan with love

Two young Waziri women were packed off to Peshawar by their parents so that they could be out of harm’s way. They were given a cell phone each with which to stay in touch with the family. In the city, away from the prying eyes of their relatives and the suffocation of tribal ways, cell phones at the ready, the girls came into their own. They got themselves a laptop and an internet connection and they set about making friends. They traced the cell number of Lahore’s most famous bon vivant and began to call him. Intrigued, he took their calls only to discover that the young ladies had no notion of decorum. Having been raised in a suffocating atmosphere, they lost their heads and hungered for contact with men, regardless of social mores. They told the bon vivant that they were avid consumers of internet ***** and were dying to visit Lahore and Karachi to meet people and to party. Asked what they looked like, both held forth on their physical merits (fair and comely, green-eyed and long-haired) and asked for an invite to Lahore. And when that came forth, they had the good sense to warn the bon vivant that if their folk found out, they would cut him down in cold blood. “In that case, please stay in Peshawar” he said, “and I’ll call you, don’t call me”.

[Akshut]

Indians be feared. Be very feared.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_90YidmyWA
.
Pakistanis must be put in Guinness Records for their ability to keep on barking even after so much spanking.