Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
In a few weeks he will be asking for a nuclear submarine to combat the fishyban
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
http://www.respondanet.com/index.php?vi ... &Itemid=26Five lawsuits stemming from ex-Fry's exec facing kickback charges
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12509744
Six months after a now-fired executive at Fry's Electronics was charged on suspicion of masterminding a multimillion-dollar kickback scheme to fuel his gambling habit, no fewer than five lawsuits have been filed related to the arrest of Ausaf "Omar" Siddiqui.
In this Article India is introduced as if it is a general story
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Is it not the practice with strumpetry that those who patronize and enjoy the service pay for them? Why should someone else pay Unkil's bills?The United States on Wednesday denounced the international response to Pakistan's humanitarian crisis as inadequate, with a senator saying that Gulf Arab states should contribute more.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Pakistan most important country, says Holbrooke
Pursuing peace ---- Babar SattarWASHINGTON: US special envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke said Pakistan is the most important country of the world adding that It is still unclear if Pakistan's offensive in Swat has killed off Taliban insurgents or simply scattered them, a senior U.S. official said on Wednesday, adding a note of caution to U.S. praise for the effort.
After being accused by the United States of "abdicating" to a Taliban insurgency that has heightened concerns about nuclear-armed Pakistan's stability, the Pakistani government launched an offensive in Swat in late April and says it has since killed 1,800 militants.
Independent estimates are not available and critics say few guerrilla leaders have been eliminated, making it possible for the insurgents to regroup.
"We don't know exactly to what extent the Pakistani army dispersed or destroyed the enemy," Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, told reporters after returning from a trip to the two countries.
"The test of this operation is, of course, when the refugees return. Can they go home? Are they safe? And we're just going to have to wait and see," he added.
Security forces are nearing the end of an operation launched close to three months ago in the Swat valley and the nearby districts of Buner and Lower Dir, but they still face pockets of resistance in some areas.
The second phase of the war is expected to be fiercer than the first one and could preoccupy the Army for a much longer period. What India fears is that even if the Pakistani Army succeeds in the first two phases of its war against insurgents and terrorists in the North-west, there might not be a third phase of this war where the Army would take on the India-focused militant groups based in Punjab – who have no record of attacking citizens or security agencies within Pakistan.
This is the part of Pakistan's "infrastructure of terror" that India is predominantly concerned about, and hence the erstwhile insistence that dismantling of such infrastructure be a precondition for peace talks. But abiding by India's request at this time is not possible for Pakistan for reasons of capacity and, not necessarily, will. For the same reason that Pakistan would never wish to be engaged in an external war on the eastern and western fronts simultaneously, initiating the third phase of war against militancy in Punjab, while the second phase in the tribal belt drudges on, is neither feasible nor desirable: it would overstretch the Army and its fighting capacity.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
I wonder instead of spending millions of taxpayer's (?) money on touring countries why cant 10% do video conference begging? when was he last spotted in pukistan?Rahul Shukla wrote:US disappointed by paltry Pakistan aid (AFP)
'Tis time again for Zardari's next tour of the holy lands. Having Mecca+Medina in their country is going to cost the Saudis big-time...
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
And the US may even give one. After all, if F-16s and Harpoons are needed for fighting the Taliban, why not a boomer ?vaman wrote:In a few weeks he will be asking for a nuclear submarine to combat the fishyban
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
So the LeT piglets have no record of attacking paki civilians or army.But that is not the reason why the paki army won't take on the LeT piglets. it is only because they can't fight on two fronts simulataneously!! Their typical paki behavior always shines through irrespective of how they try to couch it. stupid pakispgbhat wrote: Pursuing peace ---- Babar SattarThe second phase of the war is expected to be fiercer than the first one and could preoccupy the Army for a much longer period. What India fears is that even if the Pakistani Army succeeds in the first two phases of its war against insurgents and terrorists in the North-west, there might not be a third phase of this war where the Army would take on the India-focused militant groups based in Punjab – who have no record of attacking citizens or security agencies within Pakistan.
This is the part of Pakistan's "infrastructure of terror" that India is predominantly concerned about, and hence the erstwhile insistence that dismantling of such infrastructure be a precondition for peace talks. But abiding by India's request at this time is not possible for Pakistan for reasons of capacity and, not necessarily, will. For the same reason that Pakistan would never wish to be engaged in an external war on the eastern and western fronts simultaneously, initiating the third phase of war against militancy in Punjab, while the second phase in the tribal belt drudges on, is neither feasible nor desirable: it would overstretch the Army and its fighting capacity.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Evidently such technologies change very fast.Rahul Shukla wrote:Pakistan Seeks More U.S. Military Aid (Washington Post)
Please! Put 'em in-charge of Centcom and 200,000 years later there will still be Taliban running around everywhere. It's upto Uncle Sam to decide how long they want to put up with this nonsense.ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, July 22 -- Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani on Wednesday called on the United States to provide real-time intelligence, unmanned aircraft technology and other military assistance to help his country combat the Taliban without relying on attacks from U.S. drones.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Malthus & Zardari
We don’t even know how many we are. There is no census and there is no credible assessment of the growth rate. Lazy bureaucrats pressurised by political expediencies throw arbitrary and highly unreliable numbers at us. A good guess would be a population of 180 million and a 3 percent growth rate. At this rate, we would be 250 million in about 10 years.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Mysterey of the Taliban Funds - Edit by Najam Sethi
Excerpts
Excerpts
The fact is that the insurgency is very likely to have multiple sources of funding, not just one. Not even one source which caters to the bulk of funds being used to sustain the insurgency and terrorist operations across the region. It is difficult to estimate how much of the money is coming from what source. What makes eminent sense though is to have more than one channel to ensure that the supply doesn’t dry out if one particular source is detected.
Also, we may be forgetting Al Qaeda in all this. Al Qaeda has its old “gold stream” coming into Pakistan and Afghanistan from the UAE in general and Dubai in particular. It started with the purchase of gold and diamonds all over the world — Aafiya Siddiqi was allegedly a part of that network — and then converting them into whatever currency was needed in the area of operation. The half a million dollars supposed to have been spent on the 9/11 operation had allegedly gone to the US from Dubai via Pakistan.
One cannot ignore the “income” the Taliban count on through criminal activities. Not only do they allow criminal groups to kidnap people for huge ransoms, they levy their own taxes and “protection money” in the areas where they have replaced the writ of the state. And that includes Peshawar itself where the Governor NWFP has his residence. One reason the “emirate” took shape under Baitullah Mehsud was the need to create his own source of revenue through taxing the transporters of the area. Warlord Fazlullah was tolerated by the Taliban and Al Qaeda even when he became “excessive” — which finally led to his ouster from Swat — because he had a good source of revenue from the state-owned emerald mines he had taken over.
Opposition to the Taliban among the local influential groups in Pakistan has grown because of the need of the Taliban to extort money from them to make up the funds for the purchase of weapons and explosives, paying off its foot-soldiers and compensating the families of the “martyr” Taliban.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
It is the turn of Tajikistan to demand more
President Asif Ali Zardari pledged to work with his Tajik counterpart Emomali Rakhmon on stemming the flow of weapons and ammunition to Taliban in the region.
Rakhmon told Zardari that more needed to be done to maintain stability in the region.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Hardly surprising.
In a society where adults in Government Institutions like the Army see Jihad as an useful motivational tool for fighting as evidenced by their motto “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah “, or translated “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the Way of Allah”, it is but a matter of time before someone recognises the usefulness of Jihad as a motivational tool to get children to fight.:
The Independent
In a society where adults in Government Institutions like the Army see Jihad as an useful motivational tool for fighting as evidenced by their motto “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah “, or translated “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the Way of Allah”, it is but a matter of time before someone recognises the usefulness of Jihad as a motivational tool to get children to fight.:
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy: 'Children are tools to achieve God's will,' the Taliban commander told me
Wednesday, 29 July 2009
Twenty-five children appear in a Taliban propaganda video wearing the traditional Pakistani shalwar kameez. They sit cross- legged on the ground rocking back and forth reciting the Koran. A white bandana tied across their forehead, reads: "La illaha illala: There is no God but God."
The compound they are in is bare. In one corner, three young boys hold automatic guns keeping watch. Their teacher, dressed in brown military fatigues walks around reading aloud from a book titled Justifications for Suicide bombing and makes a list on a whiteboard – "Reasons for killing a spy". The text on the screen reads "Preparing suicide bombers".
In another chilling video, three boys speak about their desire to become suicide bombers. The video introduces Zainullah, who later blows himself up killing six, Sadique, who blows himself up killing 22, and Masood who kills 28. The video contains footage of their attacks and in the background a young child sings: "If you try and find me after I have died, you will never find my whole body, you will find little pieces."
From here:Qari Abdullah, a Taliban commander in charge of child recruitment, told me children are an essential element of Jihad. "If you're fighting, then God provides you with the means [to win]. Kids themselves are tools to achieve God's will. And whatever comes your way, you sacrifice it."
Children as young as five and six years old are being recruited from poor families, he said. "The kids want to join us because they like our weapons."
The Independent
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
I am at a loss to understand the new Indian policy of 'Trust but Verify' with respect to Pakistan. Has a single dossier detailing acceptance of some guilt and a very partial investigation that is still not attempting to unravel the complete monstrosity of 26/11, been found enough to 'trust' Pakistan ? Even this dossier has come about with great reluctance and only under great pressure from the US. Even as India expresses its trust, Pakistan has exonerated Hafeez Saeed allowing him to restart his jihad tirade against India. The GoI also has suddenly stopped referring to him as the 'mastermind' behind the 26/11 incidents.
We can begin to have trust in Pakistan three decades after Pakistan reverses its approach to school curricula, brings the ISI & the PA under complete civilian control, removes 'jihad-fi-sabilillah' from the motto of the PA, prosecutes all terrorist leadership irrespective of their affiliations with the ISI, extradites Indian terrorists who are being protected in Pakistan, stops economic subversion of India, stops anti-India diplomacy and restores normal trade relationship with us. Then and only then, can we even begin to say 'Trust but verify'. Until such time, it is simply 'No Trust'.
We can begin to have trust in Pakistan three decades after Pakistan reverses its approach to school curricula, brings the ISI & the PA under complete civilian control, removes 'jihad-fi-sabilillah' from the motto of the PA, prosecutes all terrorist leadership irrespective of their affiliations with the ISI, extradites Indian terrorists who are being protected in Pakistan, stops economic subversion of India, stops anti-India diplomacy and restores normal trade relationship with us. Then and only then, can we even begin to say 'Trust but verify'. Until such time, it is simply 'No Trust'.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Pak did not provide any evidence on India's role in Balochistan: Holbrooke
US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke on Thursday said that Pakistani leaders brought up the issue of India's alleged involvement in Balochistan, but did not give any credible evidence to support their claim.
"I would be misleading, if I said it didn't come up," Holbrooke told State Department Press Corps when asked to comment on the meetings he had with Pakistani leaders during his last week's visit to that country.
Asked if Pakistan has provided him with any "credible evidence of India's involvement in Balochistan", he said: "The narrow answer to your question is no." However, he did not elaborate any further.
He also reiterated that Kashmir is outside his ability to discuss.
Responding to questions, Holbrooke said there is no difference with India on the issue of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
"You know, India was the first country in the world I was ever aware of. I have a very special feeling for it. And if there's a rift, you have to ask the Indians. I didn't see any rift," the US envoy said.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Huh?"You know, India was the first country in the world I was ever aware of.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Pak refuses to hand over Dawood: Krishna
Krishna said whatever evidence and dossier is given, Pakistan's refrain is that it is not enough and cannot be proven in court of law.
He said Pakistan has denied presence of dreaded criminals like Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memon, Chota Shakeel and Lakhbir Singh who are among the Indian nationals in the list.
"For Pakistani nationals, Pakistan has pointed to lack of extradition treaty and lack of evidence," he said. "We have made 11 futile attempts with Pakistan to conclude an extradition treaty," he said.
"Government is endeavouring to persuade Pakistan to develop a cooperative relationship with India."
Krishna said India will continue to improve relations with Pakistan despite Islamabad's reluctance.
"In spite of Pakistan's reluctance to help us to improve our relations, India's endeavour will be to continue to impress upon Pakistan that we have to have good neighbourly relations," he said.
"Our hope is that Pakistan will see sense in such kind of approach," he added.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Amb. Holbrookes comments in greater detail.SSridhar wrote:Pak did not provide any evidence on India's role in Balochistan: Holbrooke .................
My dissection of Amb. Holbrooke’s answer, led me to conclude that the US found allegations made by Pakistan about India’s improper involvement in Balochistan’s freedom struggle, as lacking credibility.
More on India and lots more on Pakistan in the complete transcript of the press briefing which is available here:Special Briefing on July 2009 Trip to Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Brussels
Richard Holbrooke
Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan
Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs
Washington, DC
July 29, 2009 ..............................
QUESTION: And secondly, sir, in the last two weeks, Pakistani leaders have said – have given public statement about India’s involvement in Baluchistan. Have Pakistani leaders brought this to your notice? Have they given you any credible evidence of India’s involvement in Baluchistan?
AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: Have they?
QUESTION: Have they given you any credible evidence of India’s involvement in Baluchistan?
AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE: I would be misleading if I said it didn’t come up, but the narrow answer to your question is no.
Yeah. ........................
US State Department
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
PM in parliament:
But Terrorism remains an option for TSP. Therein lies the disconnect. How does ruling out our options (however unlikely) in parliament and for the record, help the situation?War is not an option [for India]
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
The S-e-S harakiri thread is rightfully locked...so let me just post my query here:
Like the US, do we have a foreign relations committee in the Indian Parliament? These folks would be privy to the highest level of confidential security details and would be constituted of key players from both sitting and opposition coalitions. It's necessary to avoid this hungama of political bickering amongst well-intended politicians on either side of the aisle (assuming such beasts actually occur - and I think they still do in our system)
Like the US, do we have a foreign relations committee in the Indian Parliament? These folks would be privy to the highest level of confidential security details and would be constituted of key players from both sitting and opposition coalitions. It's necessary to avoid this hungama of political bickering amongst well-intended politicians on either side of the aisle (assuming such beasts actually occur - and I think they still do in our system)
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/ ... dawood.htm
And this guy is an external affairs minister?India has been asking Pakistan to hand over 42 fugitives including underworld don Dawood Ibrahim [ Images ], but Islamabad [ Images ] has refused to cooperate, Union External Affairs Minister S M Krishna told Rajya Sabha on Thursday.
Replying to questions, he said a list of 42 fugitives of both Indian and Pakistani nationals, including ones involved in the 1993 Mumbai [ Images ] series bomb blasts and the 26/11 terror attacks in Mumbai, has been given to Islamabad.
Krishna said whatever evidence and dossier is given, Pakistan's refrain is that it is not enough and cannot be proven in court of law.
He said Pakistan has denied presence of dreaded criminals like Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memon [ Images ], Chota Shakeel and Lakhbir Singh who are among the Indian nationals in the list.
"For Pakistani nationals, Pakistan has pointed to lack of extradition treaty and lack of evidence," he said.
"We have made 11 futile attempts with Pakistan to conclude an extradition treaty," he said. Pakistan has not responded "positively to our proposals to conclude an extradition treaty," he said.
"We have been impressing upon Pakistan that it is in the interest of both countries that we enter into a treaty of extradition," Krishna said. "Government is endeavouring to persuade Pakistan to develop a cooperative relationship with India."
Krishna said India will continue to improve relations with Pakistan despite Islamabad's reluctance. "In spite of Pakistan's reluctance to help us to improve our relations, India's endeavour will be to continue to impress upon Pakistan that we have to have good neighbourly relations," he said.
"Our hope is that Pakistan will see sense in such kind of approach," he added.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Don't blame you. This is one more idiotic statement from the GoISSridhar wrote:I am at a loss to understand the new Indian policy of 'Trust but Verify' with respect to Pakistan.
For a country that has shown us the middle finger consistently how does our man suddenly decide to "trust"? To start trusting Pakistan today with a view to "verifying" in future one must excuse Pakistan of all that it has done in the past.
This is either the statement of a traitor or a buffoon. I strongly suspect the latter is the case. A severe case of foot in mouth disease.
pthoo.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
S e S refuses to die (no one told the outside world that N has locked the thread )
Expert says PM's stand shows strategic confusion
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/expert-says- ... 207-3.html
Expert says PM's stand shows strategic confusion
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/expert-says- ... 207-3.html
An expert on international relations, former Diplomat KC Singh said, "There is a degree of strategic confusion on his (Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's) approach. He says he must engage Pakistan. There is no option but to engage Pakistan. Now if you start a dialogue with a neighbouring country with this confession that I have no option but to engage you, it puts you at a negotiating disadvantage. What kind of a negotiation are you going to have?"
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
X Posted.
Pakistan identified as the home for the top brass of terrorism:
Pakistan identified as the home for the top brass of terrorism:
The denial from Pakistan’s Foreign Office:British HC claims presence of Osama, Omer in Pakistan
ISLAMABAD ( 2009-07-29 20:22:48 ) :British High Commissioner in Pakistan Robert Brinkley on Wednesday claimed that Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Mullah Omer are present within the limits of Pakistan.
He demanded of the Pakistan government to help apprehend Osama. …………….......
Aaj TV, Pakistan
British high commissioner claim about presence of Al-Qaida in Pakistan territory baseless: FO spokesman
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has said the claim made by British High Commissioner that Osama, Mullah Omar and Alzahwari were present in Pakistan was baseless, adding action will be taken in this respect if solid evidence is provided.
Reacting to British High Commissioner claim, foreign office spokesman Abdul Basit in his exclusive chat with Online on Wednesday said that Pakistan was committed to cleanse its soil fully of terrorists, besides initiating action with full responsibility on western borders, adding that Pakistani Nation was supportive of every action against militants and terrorists. ……………..
Online, Pakistan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Musharraf skips Pakistan court hearing on misrule (AP)
Sorry Judge! We all know how expensive plane tickets can be at such short notice. Waaay beyond the means of a poor, retired army chief...ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's former President Pervez Musharraf is ignoring a summons to appear before the country's top court to explain his 2007 declaration of a state of emergency and the firing of several dozen judges. Musharraf did not appear in court himself or send anyone to represent him on Thursday, the second day of the court hearing. The former military ruler lives in London...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Threat forces U.N. to scale back in SW Pakistan (Reuters)
The Baluch Liberation United Front (BLUF) warned Sunday, in a telephone to a Pakistani news agency office in the provincial capital of Quetta, that U.N. staff would be targeted unless they left Baluchistan. BLUF spokesman Shahiq Baluch said the threat was made because of the failure to implement promises made to secure the release of a senior U.N. agency official last April.
John Solecki, head of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) office in Baluchistan, was kidnapped on February 2 when gunmen ambushed his car and shot dead his driver. He was freed after U.N. officials assured mediators that they would take steps to obtain the release of thousands of ethnic Baluchs either being held in custody or missing.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
MMS delivered an asinine speech.He said that the only option other than talking peace with Pak was "War".But there is another clear option,that of ostracising Pak until it behaves,by diplomatically punishing it.A way not to wage "War",but expose it and tar it and stigmatise it in the eyes of the world as a rogue state.MMS never wants this option because of US pressure.The US wants India and Pak to have their continuous dialogue to bore everyone to the death while the ungodly are also butchering Indians.
By diplomatically punishing Pak-booting out its diplomutts,closing borders,stopping overflights,banning travel,etc.,and declaring Pak a "rogue state",demanding that unless Pak hand over all terrorists responsible for 26/11 and criminals like Dawood enjoying their protection,there would be a "Cold War",not the hot War that MMS was mumbling about.IN the above post the British envoy has accuse Pak of shielding Osama &co. in its territory,so Pak is already in the eeys of the world a "terrorist,failed rogue state".In effect we would just seal up our borders as best as possible,exterminate intruders and ignore the pigsty that is Pak.Let them stew in their own blood.In fact,if one saw the look on MMS's face during the debate,guilt was clearly written all over it.His look was that of a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights of a car!
The opposition must not let this surrender and collapse of Indian forthrightness and principled attitude towards Paki terror.A nation wide campaign is required to put even more pressure upon the Congress for this betrayal of the nation's interests.For the first time,even prominent babus are coming out of the woodwork to protest ,like ex-diplomats,RAW chiefs,etc.,who are in shock at seeing India's interests so casually sacrificed at the altar of Uncle Sam.
By diplomatically punishing Pak-booting out its diplomutts,closing borders,stopping overflights,banning travel,etc.,and declaring Pak a "rogue state",demanding that unless Pak hand over all terrorists responsible for 26/11 and criminals like Dawood enjoying their protection,there would be a "Cold War",not the hot War that MMS was mumbling about.IN the above post the British envoy has accuse Pak of shielding Osama &co. in its territory,so Pak is already in the eeys of the world a "terrorist,failed rogue state".In effect we would just seal up our borders as best as possible,exterminate intruders and ignore the pigsty that is Pak.Let them stew in their own blood.In fact,if one saw the look on MMS's face during the debate,guilt was clearly written all over it.His look was that of a frightened rabbit caught in the headlights of a car!
The opposition must not let this surrender and collapse of Indian forthrightness and principled attitude towards Paki terror.A nation wide campaign is required to put even more pressure upon the Congress for this betrayal of the nation's interests.For the first time,even prominent babus are coming out of the woodwork to protest ,like ex-diplomats,RAW chiefs,etc.,who are in shock at seeing India's interests so casually sacrificed at the altar of Uncle Sam.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Didnt the US try the same tactic with Iran? With North Korea? What has it done to either Iran's quest for nukes and threats to Israel or NK's testing of nukes? And the military power asymmetry is far greater there..Philip wrote: By diplomatically punishing Pak-booting out its diplomutts,closing borders,stopping overflights,banning travel,etc.,and declaring Pak a "rogue state",demanding that unless Pak hand over all terrorists responsible for 26/11 and criminals like Dawood enjoying their protection,there would be a "Cold War",not the hot War that MMS was mumbling about.IN the above post the British envoy has accuse Pak of shielding Osama &co. in its territory,so Pak is already in the eeys of the world a "terrorist,failed rogue state".
you can do all of this, while keeping the pretense of talks....Keep the "others" (read US) out of the equation that way...Do what you should, keep Pak destabilised, but give the pretense of talking about talks!Philip wrote:
In effect we would just seal up our borders as best as possible,exterminate intruders and ignore the pigsty that is Pak.Let them stew in their own blood..
To use a cricketing analogy, delivering a bouncer with a smile (or a nonchalant expression) is better than delivering it with a few curse words...
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Thats the whole problem at the end, MMS has the mandate and he interprets it to be able to do what ever he wants to. Even if it means breaking with every possible domestic agreement and vision on issues for 60 years.Philip wrote:The opposition must not let this surrender and collapse of Indian forthrightness and principled attitude towards Paki terror.
The opposition (political and from Indian society) is run rough shod over.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Somnath wrote
There should be a concerted effort in destabilizing pak or atleast make the PA run around all over pakistan and be left panting for breath. Does our leadership have the will to do it?
Third and most important , whatever is our policy it should be ours only and not dictated by others
Absolutely ok with that. But the problem is that each meeting should just end with some declaration which is vague and meaningless or each meeting should end with the pakis conceding some ground. But if the talks are anything like the sharmnaaq thing happened in sharm then it is a problem.you can do all of this, while keeping the pretense of talks....Keep the "others" (read US) out of the equation that way...Do what you should, keep Pak destabilised, but give the pretense of talking about talks!
There should be a concerted effort in destabilizing pak or atleast make the PA run around all over pakistan and be left panting for breath. Does our leadership have the will to do it?
Third and most important , whatever is our policy it should be ours only and not dictated by others
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
As of last count, they were doing exactly that! with no mean help from us I would suppose...rkirankr wrote: There should be a concerted effort in destabilizing pak or atleast make the PA run around all over pakistan and be left panting for breath. Does our leadership have the will to do it?
Third and most important , whatever is our policy it should be ours only and not dictated by others
No one dictates policy to anyone else..Countries make their choices based on their perception of national interest...Unless you are sub saharan Africa, where the leaders can be bought off wholesale!
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
I hear some quarters the clamor for 'perpetually destabilized Pakistan' as good for India. While tempted, though not adding any interesing adjectives to this line of thought, i would wonder how long that could be maintained. It is absolutely unreasonable thinking to leave a nation with nukes in that state for a long term. How much time before someone in that 'perpetually destabilized' country starts propagating the truth that India seeks to keep it perpetually destabilized as matter of policy. How long then would it take some nukes are smuggled into India and detonated. How would a denial, a pledge of solidarity mingled with "it's India's fault, they've played a policy of keeping us 'perpetually destabilized' that caused this holocast" play with the world and Indian psyche. It's a loser policy to follow for the long term. And it must be debunked for what it exactly is :CRAP!
1. India cannot have a stable Pakistan EVER that will be congenial to it. It will have to abandon it's 7th century constitution, which it will not.
2. India's ONLY option is to start working on dealing with splinter nations. Get people to start thinking of spliting that nation and managing the consequences of such.
There is no other option available to us, unless Pakistan abandons Islam as it's core.
We have to work on option 2 else within 100 years we will be demographically swamped. We ma be the worlds largest economy and powerful country in 100 years, but in the next 50, India will be surely the worlds mos powerful Islamic country.
The endgame is going to be played out in he next few decades. Eitther we manage to reform Islam or we get drowned in the deluge.
So what is YOUR vision of India 2120 or 2150?
You have to start here in 2009 for that. And a 'perpetually destabilized' Pukistan is not one.
1. India cannot have a stable Pakistan EVER that will be congenial to it. It will have to abandon it's 7th century constitution, which it will not.
2. India's ONLY option is to start working on dealing with splinter nations. Get people to start thinking of spliting that nation and managing the consequences of such.
There is no other option available to us, unless Pakistan abandons Islam as it's core.
We have to work on option 2 else within 100 years we will be demographically swamped. We ma be the worlds largest economy and powerful country in 100 years, but in the next 50, India will be surely the worlds mos powerful Islamic country.
The endgame is going to be played out in he next few decades. Eitther we manage to reform Islam or we get drowned in the deluge.
So what is YOUR vision of India 2120 or 2150?
You have to start here in 2009 for that. And a 'perpetually destabilized' Pukistan is not one.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
India, Pseudo secs, liberals, rightist, BJP, Congress wallas, BSPian whatever, whoever have to stop trying to deal with radical Islam. There is no problem with radical Islam. The problem is with Islam simply. It leaves a lot open for a significant pecentage of 'radicals' to go all out on the kufrs. Problem is right there. Don't deal with it, just take a simple calculator and see where India will be and what it will be in 2150.
Would you like the Islamic Republic of India to be the most powerful country in the world 2150? Or would you prefer a pluralist, tolerant nation that has always exemplified India to be at the helm, shedding it's light the world over as it has always done for millenia..?
Would you like the Islamic Republic of India to be the most powerful country in the world 2150? Or would you prefer a pluralist, tolerant nation that has always exemplified India to be at the helm, shedding it's light the world over as it has always done for millenia..?
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Pooki Air Farce stops using GoogleEarth
I guess, the terrain kept shifting!
Pakistan Injects Precision Into Air War on Taliban
Only kills the bad tellibunnies?
I guess, the terrain kept shifting!
Pakistan Injects Precision Into Air War on Taliban
Only kills the bad tellibunnies?
The Pakistani military has moved away from the scorched-earth artillery and air tactics used last year against insurgents in the Bajaur tribal agency. In recent months, the air force has shifted from using Google Earth to sophisticated images from spy planes and other surveillance aircraft, and has increased its use of laser-guided bombs.
The changes reflect an effort by the Pakistani military to conduct its operations in a way that will not further alienate the population by increasing civilian casualties and destroying property. But they are also dictated by necessity as the military takes its campaign into areas where it is reluctant to commit ground troops, particularly in the rugged terrain of Waziristan, where it had suffered heavy losses.
The air force’s new tools and tactics have several sources. The air force has without fanfare accepted some American assistance, like sophisticated surveillance equipment and high-grade images.
Like, The Pooki Deaf & Dumb show?But sensitive to anti-American fervor in the country, Pakistani officials have refused most outside aid, developing a small corps of ground spotters largely on their own, and occasionally tapping the Internet for online assistance
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Gilani lauds Man Mohan Singh
I am not sure if Gilani is pulling a fast one as Pakis are wont to do or Mr. Singh had really spoken of an 'honourable settlement'. If the latter is true, this is one more foolishness (aka chanakyanness) by our PM. An 'honourable settlement' connotes that India would give up some of her rights or territory or both. This is not acceptable to this nation. We are not here to humour an 'honour & dignity' based Pakistani society.He said Singh "has rightly emphasised the importance of an honourable settlement of the outstanding issues between India and Pakistan".
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
We are not here to humour an 'honour & dignity' based Pakistani society.
Absolutely. A fair solution does not necessarily mean 'H&D' of boh parties is maintained. I think some personal biases and impressions are coming into play here. I doubt MMS has studied enough about Paki perfidy. I think he's like so so many folks in the chaterretti class who think Pakis are just like us, think like us, behave like us, drink like us, party like us, are liberal like us, pluralist like us, tolerant like us. They could'nt be more mistaken. My company was hiring lots of Paki's, goodwill thing really. We had almost gone upto a 100 Paki's earning an average of 7k USD/ month..this is an Indian owned/ majority Indian run/ managed Company BTW. Not one Paki apologized for 26/11. We chucked them out then. They keep calling our Mumbai Offices for employment. Seems no one else wants to hire them too..fair solution. Sorry for the H & D blow. But we don't want them. I've outright chucked a few out. Got one almost arrested in the US (threatened the crap outta the puke ).
They go about this "ROP" thingie. One guy started thinking i'm the WKK types coz my liberal, appreciative approach at work..stared talking about the 2 K's. He was stunned when i said i had read 3 versions of THE K, and most of the 'authentic' Hadith. I was surprized at his next statement: 'you must then hate Muslims'. Now this is a guy i really gave great reports, recommended for promotion and stuff, invited him to beer many times and sincerely appreciated his inputs at work. He was the only Paki amongs mostly Indians. The only thing that i did not say was 'wow, it's a great peice of art, wonderful writeup'..etc. Just the plain truth that i read 3 different versions and understand the concept of Jihad.
The 'you must then hate Muslims' was undoubtedly wrong. Tha one even Mohammed got it wrong. I have no reason to hate muslims as individuals. I do have a good reason to be careful of those who plan to take/ interpret a lot of the K literally.
If one writes a doctrine that calls the other side Kufr, infidel etc and encourages hatred, one must not ask me to be as honorable with that doctrine as i would be with the BG, Granth or even the NT. You do something wrong, one must be prepared for some 'H&D' damage. Thats how most 'fair' solutions work..
Absolutely. A fair solution does not necessarily mean 'H&D' of boh parties is maintained. I think some personal biases and impressions are coming into play here. I doubt MMS has studied enough about Paki perfidy. I think he's like so so many folks in the chaterretti class who think Pakis are just like us, think like us, behave like us, drink like us, party like us, are liberal like us, pluralist like us, tolerant like us. They could'nt be more mistaken. My company was hiring lots of Paki's, goodwill thing really. We had almost gone upto a 100 Paki's earning an average of 7k USD/ month..this is an Indian owned/ majority Indian run/ managed Company BTW. Not one Paki apologized for 26/11. We chucked them out then. They keep calling our Mumbai Offices for employment. Seems no one else wants to hire them too..fair solution. Sorry for the H & D blow. But we don't want them. I've outright chucked a few out. Got one almost arrested in the US (threatened the crap outta the puke ).
They go about this "ROP" thingie. One guy started thinking i'm the WKK types coz my liberal, appreciative approach at work..stared talking about the 2 K's. He was stunned when i said i had read 3 versions of THE K, and most of the 'authentic' Hadith. I was surprized at his next statement: 'you must then hate Muslims'. Now this is a guy i really gave great reports, recommended for promotion and stuff, invited him to beer many times and sincerely appreciated his inputs at work. He was the only Paki amongs mostly Indians. The only thing that i did not say was 'wow, it's a great peice of art, wonderful writeup'..etc. Just the plain truth that i read 3 different versions and understand the concept of Jihad.
The 'you must then hate Muslims' was undoubtedly wrong. Tha one even Mohammed got it wrong. I have no reason to hate muslims as individuals. I do have a good reason to be careful of those who plan to take/ interpret a lot of the K literally.
If one writes a doctrine that calls the other side Kufr, infidel etc and encourages hatred, one must not ask me to be as honorable with that doctrine as i would be with the BG, Granth or even the NT. You do something wrong, one must be prepared for some 'H&D' damage. Thats how most 'fair' solutions work..
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
War with Pak no option, talks only way: Pranab Mukherjee
What the bl00dy phuck does that bolded portion mean? This is serious serious capitulation. Kind of 'Aaj UPA.. kal NDA...sab kuch chalta hai...'NEW DELHI: Ruling out war as an option, finance minister Pranab Mukherjee on Thursday reinforced Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's position that there was no alternative but to keep talking to Pakistan but made it clear that there was no surrender by the government on the issue of combating cross-border terrorism.
"Neither have we succumbed to terrorism nor will we stop talking," Mukherjee told the Lok Sabha during a debate on issues arising from the Prime Minister's foreign visits, including his trip to Egypt where he met Pakistan Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. Action on terror was independent of any composite dialogue, he asserted.
"The NDA did it. The UPA did it. This is the way the world of diplomacy moves," Mukherjee said while reminding Parliament that over the last 10 years, governments across the political spectrum in India kept talking to Pakistan despite brief disruptions after terrorist attacks.
Last edited by Dilbu on 30 Jul 2009 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
Pak hands over proof of India’s ‘covert links’ with Mehsud to US, NATO
The proof was handed over in an air tight container to supress the horrible smell emanating from it.
The proof was handed over in an air tight container to supress the horrible smell emanating from it.
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
I have a neighbor. We have never talked. We never fought. Is Pranab Mukherjee trying to tell me, I am abnormal?
Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009
With people like this author, India doesn't need enemies
But what would be disturbing for most educated self-righteous middle-class Indians, who have always seen India as a peaceful country and Pakistan as source of all trouble, is the revelation that India could have a role in instigating violence inside Pakistan. The joint bilateral statement issued from Sharm-el-Sheikh has reference to Pakistan having information on threats to Balochistan. Pakistan sees it as diplomatic victory. The response in India is that of shock, especially from the hawks. But Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has displayed rare courage and insight in saying that he is willing to discuss any issue with Pakistan. He has also encouraged Pakistan to take action against perpetrators of 26/11terror attacks in Mumbai without linking it to resumption of composite dialogue. As a leader of the senior (in terms of experience with democracy) and bigger nation only he could have been expected to be magnanimous. And he has lived up to his role. He has breached the parochial approach which constrains progress on India-Pakistan official relations.
Manmohan Singh has merely acknowledged something which is common knowledge in Pakistan . But Pakistan will have to provide concrete proof of RAW's involvement in Balochistan or elsewhere in Pakistan just like India has done in the case of Mumbai incident. But this is only a trivial matter. It is an open secret that ISI and RAW have been working at cross purposes.
Can we conceive of RAW and ISI working together, like both of them have a working relationship with CIA, to root out terrorism from the region? Pakistan, being the smaller and more insecure of the two nations, would warn up to India only if it feels comfortable. The long adversarial relationship between the two has dried up all the trust. Manmohan Singh has certainly made Gilani and Pakistan feel that they can do business with India .
Dr Sandeep Pandey, social activist and Ramon Magsaysay Award winner, has just returned from a week long trip to Pakistan.