Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby archan » 17 Aug 2009 22:20

RajeshA wrote:...
6. Give financial encouragement to IMs and European Muslims to leave Islam completely or convert to a revolutionary reformist and liberal Islam-variation.
...

OK, I have to put a stop to this discussion right here. This is getting too religious for comfort. Please stick to the thread topic. Everyone, please help in keeping threads on topic.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby shravan » 17 Aug 2009 22:23

harbans wrote:Rajesh/ Shravan, don't blame me for stating the obvious, but it seems you are relying on really radical worst case scenarios.


It is going to happen even if Gandhi's rule the world.

the better less violent/ virulent solution is the conversion of the rest to Islam (thats what liberal thought will jump to)..do we need another thread to discuss this?


Given them a chance. Let there be peace. It means let them fight with themselves..... :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 17 Aug 2009 22:24

harbans ji,

I've responded to you here.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby archan » 18 Aug 2009 00:56

Shooting of Sunni militant leader sparks riots in Pakistan
The leader of a banned Sunni Islam militant outfit was shot dead in southern Pakistan on Monday, sparking sectarian rioting in Pakistan's biggest city Karachi, police said.

Allamma Ali Sher Haideri was killed along with one of his associates in the shooting at Pir Jo Goth village, Khairpur district, in southern Sindh province, senior police official Pir Muhammed Shah told AFP.

He said the attacker was killed after Haideri's guards returned fire, and that several of Haideri's men were wounded in the incident.

Haideri led the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), a Sunni extremist outfit blamed for a string of sectarian attacks across Pakistan against Shiites.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby r_subramanian » 18 Aug 2009 03:20

Yesterday there were reports that Mr.Holbrooke had offered US help in overcoming Pakistan's power problems. This morning there is some clarification on that.
US tries to lure Pakistan away from Iran-Pakistan gasline
Asking to stay away from Iranian gas pipeline for enhanced American energy cooperation, the Washington left Islamabad in a fix on Monday to choose between nearest available gas line or help line from US in tackling the ever-growing energy crisis.
...
US commitments “don’t mean electricity in Karachi next week”.
...

US tries to lure Pakistan
What can we tell Pakistan? The Tamil saying 'arasani nambi purusani kaividathe' { roughly it means 'do not abandon your husband for the favours of a king' } comes to my mind :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby symontk » 18 Aug 2009 07:14

I still didnt understand the generation logic, but thats of the topic, lets leave it

For the topic, 2B muslims is for the entire subcontinent and not for India alone, I am not understanding why is that a concern?. Hindus also will be more than that of Muslims even at that time

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South Asian or Indian: Was larger identity at root of Shahru

Postby hk_sharma » 18 Aug 2009 08:20

In imaginative accounts of the encounter between SRK and the US customs and border personnel widely distributed online, desi nationalists, who have long rankled at the ''South Asian'' appellation (which they believe is at the cost of a distinct Indian identity) surmised the following exchange, with the suggestion that the association with Pakistan is what got Khan into trouble with American authorities:

BCP: "So, Mr. Khan, what brings your here?"
SRK: "Well, I have been invited to deliver a speech at the South Asia Carnival."
BCP: "And what is that?"
SRK" "People of South Asia come together in peace and harmony to celebrate independence day."
BCP: "Ummm...South Asia. Is that a country?"
SRK: "Oh! no, no! South Asia, people of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan....(BCP cuts him off!)
BCP: "Pakistan, Afghanistan....Oh! Oh! Wait a minute here, dude! (turns around, whispers to the other BCP guy, "Man, this guy is ranting Pakistan, Afghanistan and something about being invited to deliver a speech, er... sermon..I dunno, but sure sounds creepy! No way, I am gonna get him in." (turns around)
BCP: "Sir, I will have to ask you to step aside. Please follow the red arrows on the floor to the door. Next!"

The author of this fictional exchange then goes on to ask, ''When did India's Independence Day celebrations take on a South Asian Carnival rubric? See, how easy it is for an Indian to lose his own identity and let others define it for him.'' He then goes on to present another fictional exchange that would have spared SRK the trouble.

BCP: "So, Mr. Khan, what brings you here?"
SRK: "I have been invited to deliver a speech at the India Independence Day celebration."
BCP: "India's Independence Day?"
SRK: "Yes, it is India's 63rd year of gaining Independence..."
BCP: "Yes, Gandhi...democracy. Great! Welcome to America. Have a nice day."


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 904840.cms

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Gus » 18 Aug 2009 08:54

r_subramanian wrote:What can we tell Pakistan? The Tamil saying 'arasani nambi purusani kaividathe' { roughly it means 'do not abandon your husband for the favours of a king' } comes to my mind :)


OT. That's not the actual meaning of that saying.

There is a belief that childless women will bear child if they circumambulate 'arasa maram' (arasa tree - a type of tree in TN).

Hence the saying 'don't let go of your husband and just circumambulate arasa tree to get child'

:D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 18 Aug 2009 09:04

Jounalists or Patriots ?
The highlight of our week in Sharm El-Shaikh, Egypt, in July was indeed the meeting between the Indian and Pakistani premiers – and the media hysteria surrounding it. The classic tit-for-tat between the Pakistani and Indian media, the segregated briefings and the venomous patriotism were all rather comical.

The frenzy here was reminiscent of what I observed while covering the Musharraf-Singh meetings in New York. In Sharm El-Shaikh, though, I saw some glimmer of hope. A journalist from Pakistan and two of our counterparts from India shared information, the schedule of country-specific briefings, footage and most importantly, a passion for freedom of the media. Still, I was sceptical.

When Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani arrived at Boran Resort with his delegation and embedded Pakistani media, a few of us were already there, from Samaa and Geo, and two others from an Indian TV network. We were the only South Asian journalists who were not embedded in their respective government’s delegation, and as such we arrived days in advance to cover the Non-Aligned Movement.

First the prime minister’s limousine pulled up in front of the hotel. But after some debate and confusion, the motorcade headed to the back of the hotel. Seeing this, we ran through the hotel as fast as we could to assume our new positions before Gilani entered the hotel. To our surprise, a large group of Indian journalists were already staked-out at the back entrance.

From everything that I have read in history, in biographies of successful leaders and on effective communication, it was a godsend for Gilani to establish himself as a leader of the region. The Indian media were unruly, hysterical and trying to provoke him into saying something controversial. It is in situations like these, however, that a politician can demonstrate his innate leadership qualities.

Gilani missed this opportunity. He spoke hesitantly, without eloquence or cadence. In fact, his demeanour was that of a politician-in-training.

In that frenzy, I had captured a few minutes of footage that I needed to send to our newsdesk in Karachi. I went to the media centre, set up at the Baron Resort by the Pakistani embassy in Egypt, to park my equipment and upload. Soon, I saw a journalist from Geo and two of his Indian counterparts also enter the room. The Indian journalists were asked to leave within minutes. This is not new or unilateral. In the past, I have been stopped several times from entering Indian media centres in New York and Washington DC.

Based on my experiences in New York and DC, I discouraged Khalid Hameed Farooqi, Geo TV’s special correspondent, from sharing anything with the Indians. I had told him that he was a fool for letting them know when the Pakistani PM was arriving, or the timings of media briefings. When we were subsequently not allowed in the Indian media centre, I didn’t hesitate to rub it in his face.

Media briefings and a back-and-forth between Indian and Pakistani media centres continued for the next two days. Not surprisingly, the majority of Indian and Pakistani journalists did not file any story on the NAM. This second largest multilateral summit in the world was a non-event for them. While India had fully participated for the entire week, Pakistan was not adequately represented in the first four days of the summit.

Both sides used their media as negotiating tools. A Pakistani journalist (for the English print media) was fed a story of ‘deadlock’ to adjust the Indian diplomatic temperature. It worked: India toned down its rhetoric after this story emerged on the web. :rotfl:

Then the two South Asian prime ministers met. That day was total chaos. We had to go through three separate sets of security clearance: first hotel security, then Egyptian security cleared us, and finally, Indian security. A noisy bunch of Indians and Pakistanis had pretty much taken over the lobby of this five-star resort. There was massive pushing and shoving just to get a glimpse of the leaders and hear the announcement. After almost three hours of anxiety, an Indian official brought the results of the meeting: a written joint statement. But amazingly, the tiniest of cameramen, who was probably five feet tall and no more than 100 lbs, snatched it and tried to run. {Obviously, an SDRE Hindu} It was inexplicable and hilarious. Funnier still was the Indian secretary, who was so embarrassed at losing his joint statement that all he wanted to do was rough up this brazen fellow.

The joint statement was encouraging for Pakistani journalists. The two prime ministers had agreed that terrorism (not each other’s country) was the main threat to each nation and they would cooperate in fighting it. The joint statement said that “action on terror should not be linked to the composite dialogue process and these should not be bracketed.” In theory, at least, that should allow talks to resume regardless of what’s happening on the ground. It was a great outcome.

When Prime Minister Gilani emerged from the meeting he had another chance to establish himself as a voice of reason, as a representative of a country that wants peace in the region. Indian journalists, of course, kept throwing one-liners, all on the same topic: terrorism. “How are you going to stop terrorism?” “Can you guarantee no more terrorism?” Like a broken record, they would just repeat the same question, over and over again. Their aggressive show of patriotism didn’t hide their lack of skills and creativity.

Some advice for the Pakistani prime minister: Don’t walk and talk at the same time – that puts you in a weak position, as if you are running away from the media; respond in a loud and clear voice, even if your response is circular; take few questions and then clearly say, “Thank you, no more questions,” and then walk away and don’t look back.

It was a chaotic event, but the outcome was decent. In regards to the cross-border media collaboration, I am still of two minds. I am not sure if my friend Khalid’s collaboration with Indian journalists will yield any results in the near future. My personal experience tells me otherwise. But I would rather be proved wrong.

Ibrahim Sajid Malick is a New York-based correspondent for Samaa TV.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Aug 2009 09:26

rohiths wrote:We are being too paranoid.
Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)They have a TFR is 2.1 already whereas India is still in 2.5-2.6 range.
Their population will peak and decrease from 2040 onwards. [Refer UN population statistics 2009]


Here is a chart listing the tfr (total fertility rate) of all countries

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=pk&v=31

Pakistan 3.58
Bangladesh 3.08
India 2.76
Sri Lanka 2.02
China 1.77

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2009 10:58

The population "bomb" is not just one of increasing population,but one of an increasing population among the illiterate and lowest poorest levels of society in the developing world.Both India and Pak suffer from this problem.The educated lot,the Middle Class,are marryiing later and have smaller families thes days.If I'm not mistaken,a recent survey showed that in India,in the south,the fertility rate was declining when compared wiht the north.

Pak is displaying the added feature that its population of poor illeterate souls are like trapped rats in a cage,unable to escape from their misery and are fighting with themselves as a result.

PS:MMS will probably after the next terror atrocity say that he will meet with his paki counterpart to discuss their future meetings,to further discuss their future meetings as to how Indo-Pak cooperation against terrorism can be worked out despite there being no way that Pak would stop its terrorism against India and no way that India would do anything about it either!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby dipak » 18 Aug 2009 15:20

8 ways India can hurt Pakistani economy

Writer is Sanjeev Nayyar, founder of esamskriti.com.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:41

Pakistan To Launch First Satellite In 2011

ISLAMABAD, Aug 18 (Bernama) -- Dr Samar Mubarakmand, a renowned Pakistani nuclear scientist said that Pakistan would launch its first space satellite in April 2011.

Dr Samar is a nuclear scientist and nuclear physicist, and was the chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission in 2001-2007, according to local news agency.

He largely contributed to the nuclear program of Pakistan and he was awarded three highest civil awards of the country.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsw ... ?id=433890

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:42

Heroin seized at Indo-Pak Border

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 906012.cms

GURDASPUR,PUNJAB: Twenty five kilograms of heroin, worth Rs.1.25 billion, was seized by the Border Security Force (BSF) near the India-Pakistan
border in this district of Punjab Tuesday.

"We have seized 25 kilograms of heroin that is worth Rs.125 crore (Rs.1.25 billion) in the international market, in the wee hours Tuesday," Jagir Singh, Punjab frontier deputy inspector general, told IANS.

The BSF arrested four Pakistani smugglers Saturday and recovered two kilograms of heroin, a night vision device, arms and ammunition from their possession, while they were trying to cross the Khemkaran sector in the border district of Ferozepur.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:46

My tryst with Cabbies around the World

http://blogs.siliconindia.com/arvindaka ... 58642.html

Somewhat Asian looking, I picked up a conversation with this cabbie, who had earlier greeted me Guten Tag (Good Day in German). The cabbie turned out to be an Afghan, who had settled down 6 years ago at Munich. He tried to speak with me in broken Urdu and became very emotional when I asked him about his homeland and his thoughts on India- Afghanistan relations. Most of the cabbies, be it in India or abroad, are often well read and I think their political opinion is well sought after since their attachment to the print media is more than anyone else. The newspapers give them the right company, while they wait for their next Customer. This Pathan, too, was well read. He felt bad about the war in his country and was very glad about India’s role in transforming his country. He echoed the feelings of his countrymen, by showing lot of interest in Bollywood and India’s rich cultural heritage. When I got down at the Airport, the Pathan embraced me in true Afghan style; wished me happy journey back home and asked me to pray for his country. Maybe the thought that my flight to India passes over his Motherland’s airspace, excited him more……

Early this year (February 2009), I was in London for couple of weeks on an official trip. The Asians must be forming almost 80% of the cabbies in the UK just as in US or Australia or UAE. Most of the cabbies in this sleepy suburban town called Slough, where I stayed, are from Pakistan. Normally these cabbies desist from making any political statement about India-Pakistan relationship but rather feel that we should live as friendly neighbours and squarely blame the politicians for the current state of affairs. I have seen the Indian and Pakistani cabbies mingle so freely in a foreign land as if they belong to the same hometown. Maybe it has got to do with the common language and culture that bind both these countrymen. Most of these cabbies have to send money back home and hence work almost round the clock, unlike the locals who prefer 8 hours shift and a relaxing weekend. Someone in the office, where I worked, slipped a Visiting card of a Mr. Khan, London Taxi Driver. Let me try Mr. Khan’s service for the journey back to my Hotel, I thought. Little did I know that this Khan would become my “un”official chauffeur for rest of my stay in Slough. He ensured that I never engaged another cabbie, by offering me a reasonable fare and prompt service at all times. Once while driving back to the Hotel, we stopped for a few minutes, while my friend had to make some purchase in the local store. I asked Khan as to why he was slogging so hard. His eyes moistened and he began by telling me his story.

He had come to London 20 years ago after his marriage. His 3 kids were born in the UK and had adopted the English culture that included pubbing and dating. They could not be disciplined since he feared they may go to the local Police and complain against him. Two of his kids were girls of marriageable age and he feared they would run away with local British boys. He was hence planning to take his children to Pakistan and get both the girls married, without their knowledge. He was slogging to earn the air fare for his large family and the marriage ceremony back home. I could not say a word since I did not know how to react and what to suggest.

I felt he was wrong in not letting his daughters know about the plan but after all he was a parent and wanted his kids to follow the culture of his motherland, which is fast diminishing in a foreign land. He had to leave the next day for Pakistan and asked his brother to be his replacement for rest of my stay at Slough. I wished him good luck and hoped he took the right decision.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:47

87 percent Pakistanis against religious suicide attacks : Poll

http://www.littleabout.com/news/29598,8 ... -poll.html

According to a poll conducted by Washingtons Pure Research Centre, 87 percent Pakistanis did not support the suicide attacks.

The survey also revealed that 69 percent people considered India as the prime threat to the country, while 57 believed that it was the Taliban which possess real threat to Pakistan. :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Philip » 18 Aug 2009 16:48

Jinnah or Nehru?The real villain of Partition.
In truth it was neither of them.They were both deceived by "Perfidious Albion",Britain,who preferred a partiitoned India rather than a united India where both Hindus and Muslims lived in peace."Divide and rule" was the British policy of Empire right until they left.

What Jaswant has illuminated after his 5 years of research is that there was an option,of which we are all aware of,that of Jinnah being offered the PM's post to prevent partition.Would the rest of India have accepted it? We can never tell.After decades of struggle,11 years in British prisons,Nehru too like the other Congress leaders was exhausted.As much as the British wanted to dump us,so were we impatient for freedom.So Radcliffe took a map and drew lines on it.Jaswant also remarked about ..."the sheer horror of Mountbatten's casual untruthfulness".
The British could've simply refused to partition India,but from other writings,we are told that they deliberately sidelined other popular Muslim leaders and propped up Jinnah as the rival of Nehru.Jinnah's own stated disappointment at the "moth-eaten" Pakistan he was given by Mountbatten,indicates that he too was betrayed by Mountbatten who probably promised him much more.Knowing that his "boarding card" was in his pocket and that he had little time left,Jinnah signed on and as they say the rest is history.

This must mark as Britain's most ignominious act of Empire ever,the sheer calllousness and chicanery with which they dismembered a civilisation of over 10,000 years,the millions who perished in its aftermath !
Lord Mountbatten was given the task of granting India independence,therefore the true villain of partition should be none other than him.

Muntbatten was the villain.

Search for the real villain of Partition divides India again

The bloody birth of Pakistan has always been blamed on its first leader Jinnah. No longer, reports Andrew Buncombe.

...



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 73486.html
Last edited by archan on 18 Aug 2009 17:09, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: edited, copyright. Please do not paste huge articles in their entirety.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:49

Pakistan to help Nigeria build solid defence sector

http://www.afriquejet.com/news/africa-n ... 33533.html

Abuja, Nigeria - Pakistan Monday offered to assist Nigeria build a veritable defence sector through the sharing and transfer of military technology and partnership between Pakistani Defence Industries and the Defence Industries Corporation of Nigeria (DICON).

We have the capacity to assist in defence technology, on sharing and transfer, especially in mid-range (equipment). We can also look into the areas of joint exercises, exchange of cadets and collaboration between DICON and Pakistan Defence I ndustries.

Abbe said in recognition of the existing relationships between the two countries, the Pakistani proposal would be given due attention and treated on merit. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby GuruPrabhu » 18 Aug 2009 16:50

Pak cultural troupe heads for China for Asian Arts Festival

http://english.cctv.com/20090818/101597.shtml

ISLAMABAD, Aug. 17 (Xinhua) -- A 14-member cultural troupe from Pakistani Ministry of Culture has left here for China to participate in the 11th Asian Arts Festival, the official APP news agency reported Monday.

The 11th Asia Arts Festival is slated to open on Aug. 18 in Ordos, China's Inner Mongolia.

"Peace, Friendship and Future" is the theme of the festival in which children from over 100 countries representing five continents participated in the festival.

Highlighting the rich cultural norms and traditions of Pakistan,18-member team comprised students from Roots School International, School of South Asia and Pakistan National Council Dance School.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby shravan » 18 Aug 2009 17:23

PSO dues on public, private institutions reach Rs 87b

KARACHI: Dues of Pakistan State Oil (PSO) owed by public and private institutions have reached up to Rs 87 billions.

According to the industry sources, due to the non-payment of these dues, PSO is unable to pay off Rs 12 billion to Kuwait Petroleum. :lol:


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby shravan » 18 Aug 2009 17:47

Af-Pak strategy recognises Qaeda shifting base to Pak: Obama
Washington, Aug 18 US President Barack Obama today said the new Af-Pak strategy of his administration recognises that al-Qaeda and its allies have shifted their base from Afghanistan to remote tribal areas of Pakistan.
----
My favorite terrorist organization.... :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Dilbu » 18 Aug 2009 19:22

GuruPrabhu wrote:Pakistan To Launch First Satellite In 2011

Lets hope for the sake of Bakistan that at the last moment Chinis will not decide that it is better to target practice their anti-sat missile on the ageing satellite than gifting it away.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby surinder » 18 Aug 2009 19:37

Philip wrote:After decades of struggle, 11 years in British prisons, Nehru too like the other Congress leaders was exhausted. As much as the British wanted to dump us, so were we impatient for freedom.


And who was at fault for this? JLN & MKG had worked hard to prevent any new leadership from rising in India. They prevented both other parties & new leadership to take the reigns. Having waged an unseemly fight against Bose, and also against other alternate ways to fight the British, they were left as sole, but tired leaders. JLN had already gotten used to the PM-like role, living in Posh Lutyen's Delhi, along with other trappings of power. He could not postpone the full realization of his dreams.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 18 Aug 2009 19:51

The US has a plan for Afghanistan by Syed Saleem Shahzad: Asia Times Online

The Pakistani ambassador to Kabul recently visited the Panjshir Valley in north-central Afghanistan, where he paid his respects to the shrine of slain Tajik Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud, who was known as the "Lion of Panjshir". The envoy met with top leaders of the Jamiat-e-Islami Afghanistan, an Islamic political party, as well as with Abdullah.

The meeting was significant in that Abdullah is traditionally portrayed in Pakistan as close to India and Iran. Islamabad is clearly resurrecting the ties the Pakistani military establishment once had with northern leaders. These links were broken when Pakistan threw its support behind the Taliban when they came to power in the mid-1990s. The wheel has turned full circle, as Pakistan is also pulling back from its support of the the Pashtun Taliban.


:shock: :shock:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Mihaylo » 18 Aug 2009 20:21

GuruPrabhu wrote:87 percent Pakistanis against religious suicide attacks : Poll

http://www.littleabout.com/news/29598,8 ... -poll.html


Correction:
87 percent Pakistanis against religious suicide attacks in Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby svinayak » 18 Aug 2009 20:30

In Pakistan, where Jinnah died from the effects of tuberculosis barely a year after the country secured independence, news of this reassessment of the country's founder has been gladly seized upon. Mr Singh's book has become front page news and the subject of television talk shows and opinion columns. The book's publisher, Delhi-based Rupa and Co, said an initial order of books from Pakistan had already been tripled prior to publication.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 18 Aug 2009 20:38

^^^
To me it looks like somebody needs to reassured that they did the right thing. :P

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby shravan » 18 Aug 2009 21:02

Secret $2.2 bn Pakistan Steel deal without bids

KARACHI: Already running into losses and liabilities worth about Rs21 billion, the Pakistan Steel has signed a non-transparent secret memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Metallurgical Corporation of China (MCC) for $2.2 billion expansion programme to raise its current production capacity of 1.1 million tons to five million tons, according to investigation carried out by this correspondent.

The government of Pakistan will provide sovereign guarantees for full repayment loans from Chinese banks to the Metallurgical Corporation of China for this project.Without an in-house technical and financial feasibility for an ambitious five-million ton expansion plan by the Pakistan Steel, the Chinese company has already been allowed to conduct a feasibility study of its own. Under the MoU the government of Pakistan has already committed to make all necessary approvals.

Contrary to relevant government rules and regulations as well as basic norms of transparency, the Pakistan Steel didn’t place any advertisement in the local and international press to seek the best international offers before entering into secretive negotiations with the Chinese company, which was long seeking to clinch this deal.
.
.
Most shocking element of this MoU, available with this correspondent, which will bind Pakistan with an additional foreign loan of $2.2 billion, is a clause that requires complete secrecy of this understanding.

Clause 6.1 of this MoU states: “This MoU and any discussions related to it shall remain strictly confidential between the parties and no public announcement shall be made without written consent of both parties.”

When Moin Aftab Shaikh was asked by this correspondent why such secrecy was made an integral part of the memorandum when the Pakistan Steel is a public organisation, he replied: “This was not our requirement but the Chinese company asked for this secrecy clause and we agreed.” Mr Shaikh, however, didn’t agree that this secrecy clause has made this MoU even more suspicious.
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The next day, a 12-member delegation from the MCC was at the office of the ministry of production and industries in Islamabad where the minister of production and a high-powered delegation of the ministry received a blueprint for the implementation of $2.2 billion Pakistan Steel expansion plan from the visiting Chinese team.

The Pakistan Steel chairman, however, denied any involvement of Mr Riaz Lalji, a businessman of growing clout and powerful friends in the government, in the project.

While struggling to cope with the mounting losses and liabilities of around Rs21 billion, the Pakistan Steel consumed around Rs10 billion of cash injection provided to it by a consortium of government-owned financial institutions in July.

The cash injection was also against the guarantees of the government of Pakistan, but it is not known if the finance ministry has approved the financial elements of this current MoU that broadly stretches the government of Pakistan’s capacity to extend sovereign guarantees for its near bankrupt government institutions.

PIA, currently facing a cumulative losses and liabilities of Rs140 billion, is seeking similar government guarantees worth about $2 billion for an ambitious purchase plan of 27 aircraft from Boeing and Airbus Industries.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby archan » 18 Aug 2009 22:06

^^ huh secrecy? I hear background chants of:
"Chor hai.." "Chor hai.." "Chor hai.."

One day the pakis will be burnt badly and they will realize that the new age baniyas (NAB) are not the ones they had been loathing for 60+ years. The NABs will suck even the last drop of juice from the paki dekho-no-money.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby Shalav » 19 Aug 2009 00:06

Mushy tried to sell it to some Saudi group 3 years ago, but it was reversed by the supreme court.

I think part of reason for the secrecy is the civilian govt. has sold out again, this time to the chini. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the secrecy clause was put in at the behest of the bakistanis as a CYA tactic.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby ramana » 19 Aug 2009 00:35

Nightwatch 16 August 2009 update.....

Pakistan: President Zardari on 14 August lifted a ban on political activity in the Pashtun tribal belt on the Afghan border, Reuters reported. Zardari said Pashtun tribesmen should not have a different identity, and because they are Pakistani citizens, all laws and rights should be apply to the people who live in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA).

The story behind the story is that the government is slowly using its political powers to break the political autonomy of the tribal agencies. The Constitution guarantees the agencies a large measure of political and administrative autonomy, under the Presidency, not the parliament.

In opening the agencies to Pakistan’s political parties, the Presidency is undermining the isolation and provincialism of the tribes that the current Constitutional arrangement promotes. Pakistan just took an important step in the direction of breaking the hold of the elders, imams and the district agents.

Security. At least 17 members of the Maulvi Nazir faction of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP aka the Pakistani Taliban), including Maulvi Nazir himself, have been killed in fighting with the Baitullah Mehsud group, rival leader Turkistan Bhittani told a private TV channel on Sunday.

The significance of this is that Maulvi Nazir and his fighters were pro-government militants for more than a year. The Maulvi sought to steer the movement to support fighting in Afghanistan to force US forces to leave. Baitullah Mehsud focused the movement against the Pakistan government as an agent of the US. The two factions regularly skirmish.

Pakistan-Turkey-Iran: For the record. The BBC reported on Friday that Pakistan has begun its first international freight train service from Islamabad to Istanbul. The 6,500km (4,040 mile) trial service via Tehran is a pilot project of the regional Economic Co-operation Organization.

The train will pull 20 cars on its maiden journey from Islamabad railway station, delivering 14 to Tehran and six to Istanbul a fortnight after it sets off. The first journey will also take railway experts from the three countries on board to gauge performance and check for obstacles over the vast route.

Officials expect it to boost Pakistan's trade with Turkey and Iran - currently estimated at $1bn - by as much as 50%. There are also hopes the route will eventually provide a link to Europe and Central Asia, and carry passengers.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby dipak » 19 Aug 2009 01:56

Pak terror camps a threat to India: Antony

No problem - now that official talks dissociated from terror attacks, the chai-biscuit can continue between two countries.
Otherwise, what else is the way out other than the warm hug, chai-biscuit, pappi-jhappi and baat-cheet?

These threat warnings, alerting to state agencies can go hand-in-hand with pappi-jhappi diplomacy.

Even Kissinger would sure, find something to learn from this kind of handling of foreign-affairs.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 19 Aug 2009 05:54

How many times will we be duped? ---- Shireen M Mazari :((
We have also had the Pakistani leadership jumping with joy over the apparent US intent to help us overcome our energy crisis – which some sober analysts have pointed out as being partially self-created as a result of bad policies (KESC), vested interests and non-payment to the IPPs. So what has Holbrooke committed to? Nothing on civil nuclear energy similar to the 123 Agreement with India despite the fact that our official energy need projection by 2030, put out by the Planning Commission was over 1,62,000 MWs. Out of this 8,800 MW was to be acquired through nuclear energy, so if the US was serious about helping this nation on the strategic energy issue, there should have been some civil nuclear deal forthcoming. Instead, all we have seen so far is the demand that we renege on the Iran Pipeline in case we wanted US energy cooperation. We are being asked to give up something already in hand for a vague promise for the future. The arrogance of the blackmail is what stands out, because we are being told that if we withdraw from the IPI project, only then will the US move towards getting us the funds promised but not delivered by the so-called Friends of Democratic Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 19 Aug 2009 05:59

Editorial: Sectarian violence from Sindh to Gilgit ---- DT edit.
Excerpt
The Pakistan Ulema Council has condemned the killing of Allama Ali Sher Hyderi and has announced three days of mourning across the country. It thinks that the murder is a “conspiracy” to restart the sectarian war that Pakistan has been going through in the recent past. Some TV channels also took up the conspiracy theory — usually implicating India — for reasons of self-defence in the days to come when violence at the national level is expected. However, it is wrong to assume that sectarian violence is at a low ebb. It is there in DI Khan and Parachinar and is clearly one-sided against the Shia.

A lot of research is available on Sipah-e-Sahaba because it is the mother of all jihadi organisations fielded by the state of Pakistan as “non-state actors” against India. Living in civil society, these organisations have injected violence into the lives of ordinary citizens.


In the past, the Sipah targeted the Shia and killed them inside mosques and imambargahs and the country shook under the intensity of the sectarian hunger for death. But then, one by one, most of the leaders of the Sipah were killed, including the father of Allama Ali Sher Hyderi;
most of the clerics supporting the Sipah have been done to death too. And both sides engaged in this terrible war blame the state of Pakistan and vow revenge against it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby r_subramanian » 19 Aug 2009 06:25

Who is an Allama?
Reading about the death of Allama Ali Sher Hyderi makes me ask this question. (I do not know any Urdu.) Is Allama a religious title? I have tried googling but wihtout success.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby RayC » 19 Aug 2009 06:26

Cold-starting Pakistan
Thursday, January 22, 2009
By Ikram Sehgal
"Cold Start" is the Indian military doctrine meant to allow rapid deployment Special Forces units "to strike Pakistan within hours of any terrorist attack on Indian soil. It assumes that militants from Pakistan, and not home grown Indian radicals, are responsible for any actions". Such a rapid response would not allow time for diplomacy, Stephen Cohen, who helped India in the formulation process, maintains "cold start" was developed with the help of external strategists, borrowing heavily from Israeli tactics, notably from the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.

The assumptions of the new Indian Doctrine are: (1) to act offensively against Pakistan for any perceived acts of strategic destabilisation of India, proxy war and terrorism (2) move away from India's defensive mindset of last 50 years (3) prepare to undertake offensive military operations at the outset (4) undertake offensive operations short of the nuclear threshold (5) vast majority of Indian public will support any war putting Pakistan into place and forces it "to desist from proxy war and terrorism against India."

Pakistan's assumptions about cold start are: (1) offensive operations commencing without giving Pakistan time to bring diplomacy into play and (2) such offensive operations will not cross the nuclear threshold or prompt Pakistan into crossing it. India implies that, should Pakistan opt for crossing the threshold, the onus would lie squarely on Pakistan. The assumptions by New Delhi are dangerous: (1) the ability to hold limited portions of Pakistan with military might and (2) use this for political leverage against Pakistan. Holding of Pakistani territory will be unacceptable, triggering a ground war as well as a possible nuclear exchange.

Exercise Vajra Shakti further developed the cold start doctrine. "Against the backdrop of a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare threat from Pakistan, Special Forces were employed in pre-emptive strikes for furtherance of offensive operations by a Pivot Corps employing an infantry division, armoured regiments and an independent mechanised brigade from its own resources. Envisaging swift, day and night operations, offensive strikes were supported by advanced C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence) network and systems, including establishment of a Force Multiplication Command Post for integration and flow of real-time information to combat units, collected by satellites, UAVs, aerial reconnaissance, radar networks, communication intercepts etc. Digital photographs of "the enemy areas" were transmitted real time to forward combat units, facilitating speedy decision-making by Commanders, the commencement of network-centric warfare in the Indian Army. Information-dominance of the battlefield was practiced by use of electronic warfare systems. The Indian Aerospace Force (IAF) role was paramount, providing 130 sorties for this Exercise in reconnaissance, fighter aircraft strikes, attack helicopter and Special Forces operations. "With lessons learnt in Ex Vajra Shakti, the other pivot corps of the Indian Army were similarly exercised."

Rumours are afloat about a game plan where India will conduct surgical strikes against "known" terrorist camps, and Pakistan will helpfully turn the other cheek. Our rather helpless response to daily "Predator" attacks, bluster rather than any substance, has given weight to this belief. Bob Woodward's book "Bush at War" describes how, agonising over how to convince Pakistan, the US hierarchy was nonplussed by Pervez Musharraf's "ready and willing" acceptance of all seven US demands without even a murmur. Was diplomatic pressure recently brought on Pakistan to fall in line in the "supreme" interest of the "war against terrorism," the logic being that since only "terrorist" targets were to be engaged this was in "Pakistan's interest"? Wonder of wonders, for once we did not roll over and play dead! Our rulers probably calculated that the people of Pakistan would give them short shift.

Initiating preliminary actions of their "Cold Start" Doctrine, the IAF was geared into a "first strike" mode. Picked up by our intelligence, the PAF responded by a "show of force" on "high alert." A dense fog then engulfed most areas of the likely military options. During this time-lag some strategic reserves were extricated from FATA and rushed eastwards, that "window of opportunity" for India passed. Mere coincidence that three Strike Corps are in "winter collective exercise" mode in the Rajasthan Desert? That too carrying their first- and second-line ammunition? Movement of their Amphibious Brigade and dumping of fuel for forward deployment of troop-lifting helicopters has also been detected.

Pakistan's history is replete with strategic blunders of monumental stupidity, we have only been saved by tactical successes achieved by the great sacrifices and outstanding bravery of our soldiers, sailors and airmen, those who have actually taken part in action, and not just talked about it. Some morons thought up the "Defence of the East lies in the West," and we left East Pakistan defenceless. Subsequently some more morons came up with the "Afghanistan gives us strategic depth" concept and we are now in trouble up to our eyeballs on our western borders. Those who think that "the defence of the South lies in the North," i.e., putting the bulk of our Armed Forces protecting our main population centres and communication in the Punjab and AK, may be theoretically correct in a long-drawn-out war, in the short Indo-Pak version it is stupid, monumentally stupid, particularly in the face of the known Indian deployment.

To quote my article on the 2002 crisis, "Talk of a limited Indian offensive across the LoC in "hot pursuit" or the targeting of Mujahideen training camps in Azad Kashmir means to contain the battleground to Kashmir, the premise being that all the other Strike Corps are then positioned to go on the offensive if Pakistan does not opt for limited war and goes on an all-out offensive. With all 3 Armoured Divisions and 4 RAPID Divisions, with 2 out of 5 Independent Armoured Brigades concentrated in Rajasthan, the resource allocation makes the offensive targets obvious, either along the Jaisalmer-Rahimyar Khan axis or along the Barmer-Mirpurkhas axis. No ground offensive being possible in the desert without heavy air cover, their air deployment suggests that the focus of attack could well be in the deep south (Western and Southern Commands), the same principle applying for a combined heliborne, para and/or amphibious operation. Both the Indian Strike Corps have been reinforced with additional Divisions with integral Helicopter Attack Squadrons, Engineer, Artillery and Air Defence Brigades. Jodhpur has a concentration of heavylift MI-8/M-17 helicopters, could be supplemented by the 50th Independent Parachute Brigade air-lifted by AN-32s from Agra, attempting helicopter troop transportation/amphibious LST landings with XXI Strike Corps going for a link-up. The Indians have been practicing this. The area between Badin and Sajawal east of the Indus thus becomes vulnerable."

My recent article was based on their 2002 ORBAT, a number of my friends corrected me that this was outdated, the Indians had restructured their ORBAT in 2005. Not surprisingly, the "South-Western Command" was created at Jaipur, in line with the IAF's existing South-Western Command. Western Command has an additional 9 Corps created at Yo1 and RAPID Divisions have increased from 4 to 5, all concentrated in the Rajasthan Desert. Furthermore a new Artillery Division has been raised. Their likely main thrust remains the deep South Barmer-Mirpurkhas axis with secondary effort in the Jaisalmer-Rahimyarkhan area. The "COLD START" Doctrine is in keeping with the likely fulcrum of their offensive.

As night turns into day, the Indians will put their main effort in the deep South. 18 Div was almost overwhelmed in 1971. Two brigades of 33 Div were force-marched from the Rahimyarkhan area to stem the rot. Only the outstanding courage of individual unit commanders like Lt Col (later Brig) Mohammad Taj, S J & Bar (44 Punjab now 4 Sindh), saved Pakistan when "the barbarians were at the gate" in Chhor and Umerkot on Dec 12, 1971. Taj was symbolic of many brave officers who went up and down the line in the Thar Desert exhorting the rank and file, the line held. It was touch and go for a couple of days! Later, no one did more than Lt Gen Lehrasab Khan as Commmander 5 Corps for improving our defences in the area but even his soldierly persistence did not succeed penetrating military obduracy to get the resources in men and material required for the Chhor-Badin-Sujawal area. Kayani must ensure that this time around we have enough in the Thar Desert and the adjacent coast. Our existence is a zero-sum situation, can we afford to take chances?



The writer is a defence and political

analyst. Email: isehgal@pathfinder9.com

Cold Start Pakistan perspective


A bit dated, but good for info as to what the Pakistani think!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby archan » 19 Aug 2009 06:35

r_subramanian wrote:Who is an Allama?
Reading about the death of Allama Ali Sher Hyderi makes me ask this question. (I do not know any Urdu.) Is Allama a religious title? I have tried googling but wihtout success.

Allama
An Allamah (Arabic and Persian: علامه), also spelled Allameh and Allama, is an honorary title carried by only the very highest scholars (marjas) of Islamic thought, jurisprudence, and philosophy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Postby r_subramanian » 19 Aug 2009 06:46

Thanks Archan for clarifying the meaning of 'Allama' for me


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