India's Sharm-el- Sheikh Harakiri...

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 18 Jul 2009 20:55

narayanan wrote:Guys, time to start a bit of thinking here, just a short break from the , you can go back to that right after this. Question: What is the true international implication of this news?

INDIA DOES NOT OBJECT TO PAKISTAN REFERRING TO BALOCHISTAN IN JOINT STATEMENT! AGREES TO TALK TO PAKISTAN REGARDLESS!

I agree with you completely. When I first read the above statement, this is exactly how I interpreted it. Behave or we increase the pressure in Balochistan. Infact, IMHO I am impressed how they made the pakis say it. Note MMS/other Indian politician could never utter those words himself. If we are looking for something Chanakiyan...this is it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 20:58

In the 90s, Karachi was burning. The reasons were intrinsic to the peculiar demographics and long-standing grievances of the Sindhi population there. There is no doubt that at some point of time, the Indian intelligence planners decided to stoke the fire there as a form of retaliation for the Pakistani involvement with the Punjab and later the renewed Kashmiri violence. Pakistan felt some pain but it was not commensurate with the pain inflicted on us by Pakistan. The reason is simple enough. Being a reckless state which is quite willing to suffer enormously for its only stated objective of destroying India, it can withstand mostly anything that we throw at it. So, it endured pain in Karachi and also tackled it in some ways until finally I.K.Gujral decided to call off the Indian involvement as returns were diminishing. We never escalated to the next rung in the ladder once we knew we were not quite succeeding. However, Pakistan did not stop and has single-mindedly pursued its policy of hurting us badly. We absorbed everything except for some squealing now and then for another decade. Our approach has therefore lacked consistency and clarity. Even assuming we are playing the Balochistan card, which I don't believe for a moment, the same fate may befall this approach; but that's a moot point of discussion.

Balochistan is unlike East Pakistan. It is huge, it is sparsely populated, its various tribes have not put up a united front against Pakistan, and it is contiguous with Pakistan. PAF and FC have been very easily able to contain the insurgency, the Balochi tactics have generally not worked (except innocuous rocket firings or pylon-smashing or gas pipeline explosion which are set right the same day anyhow), even after Akbar Bugti was brazenly murdered, and if this is all that the Balochi separatists have been able to do with Indian involvement, it doesn't speak much. Iran will not help the Balochis for its own fears of insurgency in Sistan province. Balochis simply do not have enough manpower to defeat the PA and we have no border with them to help. It will be difficult to yank Balochistan off and hold it as a separate entity. Thus, Pakistan will be confident of retaining Balochistan. The Balochistan threat, if such a threat exists at all, doesn't look credible.

One of the reasons, among the many, why Op Parakram was not taken to its logical conclusion was that we were stopped by the Americans. The US certainly doesn't want Pakistan to be disturbed when it is engaged in a do-or-die situation there. India will therefore be constrained even if it wants to do some mischief in Balochistan. Pakistan is confident that unless the US cooperates with India, Indian threat will not be serious.

I therefore do not see Sharam-el-Sheikh as anything other than hara-kiri.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 18 Jul 2009 21:01

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 793136.cms

A very telling interview...

Q: You have been asked about LeT and such groups that continue to act from Pakistan, would you put pressure using your influence to advise Pakistan to act against groups like LeT?

A: We have in our dialogue with Pakistan been very clear that it is imperative Pakistan has to go after every terror group. These groups are threats to Pakistan as well. These groups are no longer working alone, now they are part of a criminal syndicate. No terrorist group can be left alone, everyone must be acted against.

Q: Secretary would you link aid given to Pakistan to tangible action against terror which would also assure India?

A: I am very proud to be in India, to deepen and strengthen our relationship; I want your viewers to know we are always stressing the counter terrorism effort in every country.

Q: Secretary when they were worries that India was being clubbed with AFPAK countries, would you see India's role as regional power in the region?

A: I consider India not only a regional power but a global power. I think India has the opportunity to resolve problems regionally and work with other nations to solve some of the global challenges. How India decides to do that is upto India. Trying to bring the understanding that India has to the table to deal with the extremist threat in Afghanistan is useful. I think that cooperation that we are building with India on counter terrorism is very good, to get India's help in our side and in what Pakistan is now doing is very welcome.

Q. Do you see any resistance from Pakistan?

A: Over the last 6 months we have seen a evolving attitude in Pak, the Army effort in Buner and Swat have been adjudged by our military leaders to be sincere and committed, there is a attitude in Pakistan today that terrorists pose a threat to them that you can't turn a blind eye to terrorism.

Q: Recently meeting between India and Pak, consensus was that India has shown maturity in de-linking terror, would you believe that Pakistan should continue its fight against terror and not stop?

A: It should be expected, I see very positive steps, India is a mature country and is able to make decisions for itself, and India is also very powerful with military capacity, if necessary. What the government is doing is finding space to eradicate poverty, increase agriculture productivity, create more jobs, the bread and butter issue that will enable India to grow. I have great deal of admiration for the difficult decision that the Government has taken.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 21:03

quote="archan"

This just in:

Knowledgeable insiders who spoke on condition of anynomity because they are not allowed to speak to the media, confirmed that 60% of the "suspected US Predator air strikes" against targets inside Pakistan actually originate in Balochistan, not Afghanistan, and are based on intelligence provided by Indian satellites and overflights. The operators of the Predator aircraft are also believed to be Indian engineers in joint operations with the US, and the communications go through ISRO satellites. This situation has caused much fuming among Pakistani senior military officers because the ISRO satellites are now able to even read documents in their hands, but they are helpless. Thus the tacit Indian acknowledgement of the situation strengthens the hand of Zardari against the military by showing that this has the backing of the US government at the highest level.

Does that mean the ISRO can also see my escapades in the goatshed?

/quote

That the predator base is in balochistan has been known for some time now.

The rest seems to be rabid propoganda to whip up porki passions against India.

ISRO satellite channels can be leased by anyone as a commercial proposition. Why not the CIA?

BTW, the link above is not loading "Could not locate remote server"

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 21:03

Manny wrote:If its true that India is meddling in Baluch, I am impressed with India.

Why the assumption about GOI interference? What about non-state actors?

India has 10000000000 insurgencies and 40000000% of Indian territory is controlled by Naxals. There may be a nexus between Naxals and miscreants in Balochistan.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 18 Jul 2009 21:04

Gerard wrote:India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani
Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."

During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

Just watched the relevant clip on India. My understanding is that he is not in hurry to do anything on Balochistan matter. At least it did not look that way from the way he put it. Was kind of down-playng it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 21:05

Pranay wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 793136.cms

A very telling interview...

Q. Do you see any resistance from Pakistan?

A: Over the last 6 months we have seen a evolving attitude in Pak, the Army effort in Buner and Swat have been adjudged by our military leaders to be sincere and committed, there is a attitude in Pakistan today that terrorists pose a threat to them that you can't turn a blind eye to terrorism.

Army action in Buner, Swat etc. were against bad Taliban. India should not derive consolation from such efforts.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Jul 2009 21:12

chetak wrote: BTW, the link above is not loading "Could not locate remote server"

Are you talking about http://www.londontimes.com ....

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 18 Jul 2009 21:22

narayanan wrote:My take is that the astonishing non-objection to the "Baluchistan reference" was a clear, clear statement by India. That unless Pakistan ends terrorism, or if there is any more nonsense, Baluchistan is bye-bye. Probably followed by Sindh, Balwaristan and Pakhtoonistan. More to the point, the Indian delegation conveyed the airy attitude that they don't BELIEVE that Pakistan is going to stop terrorism, therefore, they may as well whine to the whole duniya about Indian action to break up Pakistan, for all that India cares.

This is something I said before on this thread that the Balochistan issue is in such a state (this was conveyed by various baloch leaders) that there is no point of reconciliation between Balochis and pakis. Perhaps India is coming out in the open in making her claim on it. But this stands stark in contrast to its role in Bangladesh in which we still don't overtly accept our role.

Second, the more important point, is that should we make various issues (Baloch, sindh, balawaristan, pakhtoonkhwa) etc hinge on the terror issue alone?

Balochistan is 54% of Paki-land with 3.5% of its people. Imagine advantages of having such an India friendly country in our neighborhood and the role we can play there. I was already dreaming of providing at least latin america like infrastructure to all people of South Asia.

Should we again ditch the folks who have consistently fought paki pigs, relied on us and were willing to do whatever they can and in turn screw ourselves?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 21:22

munna wrote:Just to jump in the firing line, I guess a lot of on this forum is a result of us imagining to have perfect information about the situation to make a good judgement.

Munna, that's correct. But, don't you think it works both ways, for those who think Sharm is hara-kiri and those who think otherwise ?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 21:31

'Help Pak fight terror, Clinton tells India'

How about..."Help India help Pak fight terror", India tells Clinton... extradite JUD leaders to India.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Jul 2009 21:32

In the 90s, Karachi was burning. The reasons were intrinsic to the peculiar demographics and long-standing grievances of the Sindhi population there. There is no doubt that at some point of time, the Indian intelligence planners decided to stoke the fire there as a form of retaliation for the Pakistani involvement with the Punjab and later the renewed Kashmiri violence. Pakistan felt some pain but it was not commensurate with the pain inflicted on us by Pakistan. The reason is simple enough. Being a reckless state which is quite willing to suffer enormously for its only stated objective of destroying India, it can withstand mostly anything that we throw at it. So, it endured pain in Karachi and also tackled it in some ways until finally I.K.Gujral decided to call off the Indian involvement as returns were diminishing.

SSridhar-sir,

You are usually always on the money about any thing in Pak (and the IWT) but if Bharat Karnad is to be believed, Pakis were REAALLY feeling the pinch in Karachi which India had managed to bring to a standstill with IB acting as the handler and Altaf Bhai sending in the foot soldiers. Its just that a WKK PM came in and ripped up all the good work. Karnad-ji claims that Altaf bhai even now keeps pleading with the GoI to restart their assistance to the MQM.

Thats why im scared and hoping that we dont have a IKG- part II in office right now (for full five years) who will set India back in stratergic terms.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 18 Jul 2009 21:33

I am agahst and shell shocked to see the approach of MMS. Why this profuse love making with Pakistan? Now this is sure current govt is taking dictations from US..!!
Im neither expert nor mujaheed but Im furious at MMS (look how cunning Sonia is, MMS is taking all the brunt while the lady who controls the puppet is sipping coffee)

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Jul 2009 21:35

Big fight(topic: did a sell out in Egypt happen?) on NDTV was unusually anti-Pak/seeing the declaration as a sell out (Vikram Chandra was really ripping the Pakis apart).

He also used the mad dog reared by neighbor analogy, which i have read only in BR and on a US chat show (which was again linked by BR)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jul 2009 21:35

Gerard wrote:
'Help Pak fight terror, Clinton tells India'
How about..."Help India help Pak fight terror", India tells Clinton... extradite JUD leaders to India.

Gerard, that's exactly the point. No Indian leader makes that point even obliquely. If Hillary airs this publicly, some Indian leader should retort as well. Nothing of that sort has ever happened. Not even Nepal, forget Pakistan, will take us seriously if our leaders do not show some aggression.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Jul 2009 21:37

Wah, come to country on a "bilateral visit" and preach some other stuff:
kashmir-should-be-part-of-india-pak-discussions-clinton

Ahead of her talks with the Indian leadership, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said the disputes between India and Pakistan should be looked at with "fresh eyes" and that Kashmir should "certainly" be on the agenda of discussions between the two countries.

Clinton, who will meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and other leaders in New Delhi on Monday, said the meeting between Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday has "ignited the hope" that both countries will pursue a dialogue again.

"I think that the disputes between India and Pakistan, which are historical and long-standing, should be looked at with fresh eyes, and there should be an effort to build some mutual trust," Clinton told ‘Dawn News’ in an interview.

On the Kashmir issue, she affirmed the US position that it wants India and Pakistan to resolve all such issues bilaterally and that Washington is ready to support the steps that both the countries take together.

"It certainly should be on the agenda of discussion between India and Pakistan," she said when asked whether Kashmir is still seen as a dispute that needs to be resolved.

Given the way we crumbled under US pressure recently, i would assume every word she utters in the Indian context will happen soon.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 18 Jul 2009 21:38

Egypt being such an uber-chamcha of Unkil, should we think that the venue played a big role in influencing India? That may explain why MMS himself seem to have done another U *after he returned home*?

Is it something possible? Are there any precedents?

munna · Post by **munna** » 18 Jul 2009 21:39

SSridhar wrote:
munna wrote:Just to jump in the firing line, I guess a lot of on this forum is a result of us imagining to have perfect information about the situation to make a good judgement.
Munna, that's correct. But, don't you think it works both ways, for those who think Sharm is hara-kiri and those who think otherwise ?

I agree to that SSridharji merely saying that none of us is any wiser than MMS when it gets decision making and hence suggesting that we go by past records and results not innuendos and allegations. Let us lower our BPs and give Paki deep-low-mats the opportunity to destroy their own nation by negotiating settled territories with us

.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 21:40

shravan wrote:
chetak wrote: BTW, the link above is not loading "Could not locate remote server"
Are you talking about http://www.londontimes.com ....

YES, Its very

archan · Post by **archan** » 18 Jul 2009 22:05

SSridhar wrote: Munna, that's correct. But, don't you think it works both ways, for those who think Sharm is hara-kiri and those who think otherwise ?

Which is why, Stitha-Pragya is the way to go.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 18 Jul 2009 22:10

Impeach this Prime Minister. Try him for Treason.

Within 48 hours of his betrayel, Pakis have started blaming India for all terrorist activities in Balochistan. Now India has become equal equal onlee with Pakistan in fomenting terrorism.

Here is the link

Betrayl of India by Congressi PM

Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday night blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and prime minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.
At the outset, he showered praise on Singh for agreeing to restart dialogue, saying the Indian leader had shown "political sagacity" and "statesmanship" in realising that talks were the only way forward. This Idiot PM of India is gunning for his glory at the expense of this nation. He is a non elected PM with no qualification to be Chief Executive. His economic qualifications are good for finance minister not for Prime Minister. Impeach him. What pakistanis couldn't accomplish in 60 years, this Loser has given them everything on silver platter
The statement, which has been attacked by opposition parties and commentators in India, in a brief reference to Balochistan said that Gilani had "mentioned that Pakistan has some information on threats in Balochistan and other areas."
Referring to the document, Gilani said it provides for discussion on all outstanding issues with India.
Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."
During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.

Anyone who is feeling generous and identifies with this idiot please stay out of this Dhaga.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jul 2009 22:15

SSridhar wrote:In the 90s, Karachi was burning.

Balochistan is unlike East Pakistan. It is huge, it is sparsely populated, its various tribes have not put up a united front against Pakistan, and it is contiguous with Pakistan. PAF and FC have been very easily able to contain the insurgency, the Balochi tactics have generally not worked (except innocuous rocket firings or pylon-smashing or gas pipeline explosion which are set right the same day anyhow), even after Akbar Bugti was brazenly murdered, and if this is all that the Balochi separatists have been able to do with Indian involvement, it doesn't speak much. Iran will not help the Balochis for its own fears of insurgency in Sistan province. Balochis simply do not have enough manpower to defeat the PA and we have no border with them to help. It will be difficult to yank Balochistan off and hold it as a separate entity. Thus, Pakistan will be confident of retaining Balochistan. The Balochistan threat, if such a threat exists at all, doesn't look credible.

One of the reasons, among the many, why Op Parakram was not taken to its logical conclusion was that we were stopped by the Americans. The US certainly doesn't want Pakistan to be disturbed when it is engaged in a do-or-die situation there. India will therefore be constrained even if it wants to do some mischief in Balochistan. Pakistan is confident that unless the US cooperates with India, Indian threat will not be serious.

I therefore do not see Sharam-el-Sheikh as anything other than hara-kiri.

Lalmohan ji once inspired me to do some comparisons between the break up of Yugoslavia and the situation in Pakistan.

One comparison is between Baluchistan and Slovenia. The Croats went to war with the Serbs, and as Serbs were busy Slovenia was able to conveniently declare independence. The ease in declaring Independence was because Slovenia and Serbia did not share any border. If we put it somewhat more abstractly, it was possible because Serb forces and Slovenes did not have any confrontation.

Baluchis would never be able to win their freedom through a direct confrontation with Pakjab. The only route for independence for Baluchis runs through Pushtunistan. The upcoming war for the Independence of the Pushtun regions from Pakjabi domination would weaken and thin the Pakistani Military to a level where it would not be possible for them to go after Baluchistan.

Pakistani Military has to be weakened where ever possible, on as many fronts as possible. It should be fighting the Pushtuns in FATA, NWFP. It should be worried about Extremists in South Pakjab. It should have to worry about the fighting in Karachi. The break up of Pakistan has to advance from multiple fronts. Only when the Pakistani State is fully besieged can Baluchistan gain its freedom.

In the meantime, perhaps India could help the Baluchis gain some more profile on the international scene. As far as that goes public spatting between India and Pakistan on Baluchistan in the background of the Sharm-al-Sheikh Joint Statement can help to that end. Someday there will be a new mediator, either from EU or USA. A couple of years down the line, the case will land in ICJ. Then representatives of Baluchi Groups will be asked to explain themselves. Then the ICJ may look into the technicalities of Pakistan's claims over Baluchistan. Etc. Etc.

The bone of contention and the core-issue between India and Pakistan moves from Kashmir to Baluchistan.

If India wants to get rid of American pressure, we have to ensure that America sees absolutely no hope of saving the Pig. The Pig is ready for the slaughterhouse.

That should be the Indian Policy. For public consumption, India can put any spin to it, that we want.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 22:30

Baljeet wrote:Impeach this Prime Minister. Try him for Treason.

Within 48 hours of his betrayel, Pakis have started blaming India for all terrorist activities in Balochistan. Now India has become equal equal onlee with Pakistan in fomenting terrorism.

Here is the link

Betrayl of India by Congressi PM
Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday night blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and prime minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.
At the outset, he showered praise on Singh for agreeing to restart dialogue, saying the Indian leader had shown "political sagacity" and "statesmanship" in realising that talks were the only way forward. This Idiot PM of India is gunning for his glory at the expense of this nation. He is a non elected PM with no qualification to be Chief Executive. His economic qualifications are good for finance minister not for Prime Minister. Impeach him. What pakistanis couldn't accomplish in 60 years, this Loser has given them everything on silver platter
The statement, which has been attacked by opposition parties and commentators in India, in a brief reference to Balochistan said that Gilani had "mentioned that Pakistan has some information on threats in Balochistan and other areas."
Referring to the document, Gilani said it provides for discussion on all outstanding issues with India.
Asked when Pakistan will give proof to India about its "interference" in Balochistan, he said "as and when talks take place, it will be handed over. Right now we are talking about talks."
During his long interaction with journalists, Gilani was congratulated by them for "showing courage" during the talks with Singh and getting Balochistan onto the table.
Anyone who is feeling generous and identifies with this idiot please stay out of this Dhaga.

The magnitude of this disaster and its international political import
is just now beginning to unravel and its many ramifications will become known very soon.

arundhoti must already be hard at work on her keyboard.

The muslim ummah will swallow this bilge and propogate it the world over.

In one fell swoop, we have been turned from bloody, bleeding victim to perpetrator.

Next, watch for a scathing statement from the OIC and some moron (maybe porkis themselves) dragging us to the UN and asking for India to be declared a terrorist state.

Wonderful worldwide publicity for us and a bloody goad to our own home grown jehadis.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 18 Jul 2009 22:45

Looks like there is no difference between India and Pakistan when it comes to giving in to American pressure ic concerned.

Even though India continues to say bilateral bilateral , US seems to decide what is going on, including what is on the joint statement. They are suggesting Kashmir should be discussed. Why is it that India is appearing so weak?

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 18 Jul 2009 23:01

Why is it that India is appearing so weak?

Because India's prime minister has actually been appointed by the Americans through a White Christian proxy.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 18 Jul 2009 23:02

And which self respecting nation will put up with the sermon on 'shared sacrifice' being doled out by Hillary?

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 18 Jul 2009 23:08

Why should India sacrifice just because Pakistan is in deep trouble which has been of its own making.

It is amazing that India is playing along to this American script.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 18 Jul 2009 23:09

sum wrote:Big fight(topic: did a sell out in Egypt happen?) on NDTV was unusually anti-Pak/seeing the declaration as a sell out (Vikram Chandra was really ripping the Pakis apart).

He also used the mad dog reared by neighbor analogy, which i have read only in BR and on a US chat show (which was again linked by BR)

Even WKK Seema Mustafa is critical of Indian position.
WATCH

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 18 Jul 2009 23:14

The reason why MMS chose to be so open about balochistan is because I suspect he has already gone on the I K Gujral path of showing magnanimity to pakistan.
His open ness to pakistan about balochistan and other areas is because, as far as his government is concerned, he has already ensured that india's slate is squeaky clean.

It is not hard to imagine, that the rot is much deeper than what we see, sharam-el-sharief was only a manifestation of what has been done already.

The first sign was when india chose to not respond to pakistan after 26/11, as on numerous occasions. The next was when the indian delegation was asleep on the wheels at G-8.

The fact that so many well regarded strategic experts are unanimously criticising MMS is because his proverbial 'ghara' of paaps against india's national interest is now full, that the 'paani sir ke upar jaa chuka hai'

So I will say goodbye MMS-ji, and heave a sigh of relief.

Lets get that supposedly dhimmi Rahul baba on stage and enjoy his antics a bit. (Humein dekhna hai...)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 23:16

csharma wrote:Why should India sacrifice just because Pakistan is in deep trouble which has been of its own making.

It is amazing that India is playing along to this American script.

Just remember that the amrekis are supplying weapons to both India and porkistan.

Are they a moral country? their script is just good business sense.

Knowing that their weapons will cause death and mayhem, in fact they want it so because then they can sell more weapons to both countries (new and improved!)

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 23:26

Next, watch for a scathing statement from the OIC and some moron (maybe porkis themselves) dragging us to the UN and asking for India to be declared a terrorist state.

If India is so weak in 2009 that an OIC statement could possibly matter and the UN could declare it a terrorist state, then MMS, Sonia and family are the least of India's problems.

A statement mentions Balochistan and suddenly the world is coming to an end? Is this the Bharat-Wailers forum?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Jul 2009 23:29

sum wrote:Wah, come to country on a "bilateral visit" and preach some other stuff:
kashmir-should-be-part-of-india-pak-discussions-clinton

Hope they now take a leaf out of the Pakistani textbook. The answer to such a suggestion should be 'No, Balochistan is the core issue between India and Pak. It should be discussed first.'

I subscribe to the POV that there is no value in talking to the Pakistanis. It is their major power sponsors that need talking to. As far as implicating India in terrorist activities goes, one of the marks of a global power is to conduct terrorist activities around the world in line with your national interests without getting censured for it in the global power structure.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 18 Jul 2009 23:43

Why India has decided to liberate Balochistan

See above where Hilarious Clinton claims:

Our internal expert assessment is that the Pakistan military's efforts in Swat and Buner are sincere

Taliban fighters have resurfaced and begun conducting armed patrols in Buner district near the restive Swat valley....
....carrying out armed patrols on roads in Buner district and established a check post at Pacha Killay over the past few days,.... beside a stream at a spot between Pacha Killay and Balo Khan ... They checked people at the post, singling out government officials and their opponents.

"The checkpoint was set up a few days ago but removed after shelling by security forces. However, they have set it up again and checked people here on Friday," a resident said.

People also said some 250 to 300 Taliban fighters stormed Pacha Killay a couple of days ago. The militants reportedly took away cash cards given to displaced people to obtain Rs 25,000 from state-run banks. Local residents said militants were active in many parts of Buner district, including Pir Baba, Mula Banda, Dokada, Malikpur, Balo Khan, Hisar and Gokand. {American aid, courtesy of Obama and Hilarious, From the TaxPayers of the United States of America, To the Taliban Goat-Lovers of Pakistan.}

However, the Frontier Corps, which is leading anti-militancy operations in Buner, denied reports that the Taliban had set up a check post. It also played down concerns about the regrouping of militants.
"The Taliban arrived in great numbers to Kalpani, which is a densely populated area, and Chagharzai. They terrified the people when they brazenly carried out armed patrol on a four-kilometre strip on the Kalpani-Chagharzai road a couple of days back," said another resident of Buner, who requested not to be identified.

The Pakistani military... claimed to have cleared the entire area last month.

The militants have reappeared at a time when thousands of people displaced by recent military operations in Swat and nearby areas have begun returning to their homes.

"My brother had gone back to his home after the start of the IDPs (internally displaced people) return, but the situation there was still precarious and the Taliban were active, which forced him to leave Buner again," a resident of a village near Pir Baba told the paper.

The man said the Taliban militants had suffered "meagre casualties" during the military operations and their numerical strength had remained intact.

The displaced people coming back would not be safe and could have to migrate again, he said. The 'Amn Tehrik' or local peace committee has expressed concern over the situation, saying the Taliban's top leaders are still alive.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2009 23:46

Gerard wrote:
Next, watch for a scathing statement from the OIC and some moron (maybe porkis themselves) dragging us to the UN and asking for India to be declared a terrorist state.
If India is so weak in 2009 that an OIC statement could possibly matter and the UN could declare it a terrorist state, then MMS, Sonia and family are the least of India's problems.

A statement mentions Balochistan and suddenly the world is coming to an end? Is this the Bharat-Wailers forum?

No boss, we are all well wishers of Bharath onlee. The dhimmi has messed up good.

Take a look here

‘ Gilani says India interfering in Balochistan ’

Sat-Jul 18, 2009

Islamabad / Press Trust of India
Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Saturday night blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas" and said the document reflected Pakistan's concerns over this.

The joint statement signed by him and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh "underlines our concerns over India's interference in Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan", Gilani told his first press conference after his return from Sharm-el Sheikh.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Jul 2009 23:46

vera_k wrote: one of the marks of a global power is to conduct terrorist activities around the world in line with your national interests without getting censured for it in the global power structure.

I consider India a global power: Hillary Clinton

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 18 Jul 2009 23:58

India interfering in Balochistan: Gilani

Two days after the controversial Indo-Pak joint statement in Egypt, prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani blamed India for "interference" in Balochistan and "other areas".

And FWIW
Rising disquiet in Cong over PM's Pak line

Smells like media mgmt, like throwing a consolatory bone to any potential genuine disquiet in the desi establishment. Jai Ho.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 19 Jul 2009 00:02

sum wrote:Big fight(topic: did a sell out in Egypt happen?) on NDTV was unusually anti-Pak/seeing the declaration as a sell out (Vikram Chandra was really ripping the Pakis apart).

He also used the mad dog reared by neighbor analogy, which i have read only in BR and on a US chat show (which was again linked by BR)

shameless NDTV host vikram lifted shivji's pit bull analogy word to word without giving any credit.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Jul 2009 00:08

>>>shameless NDTV host vikram lifted shivji's pit bull analogy word to word without giving any credit.
Hey, even B.Raman did not give credit to Avram & Narayanan; why expect from lesser folks - we will get disappointed onlee.

Added: Can anybody share Shivji's analogy again here please?

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 19 Jul 2009 00:14

every Indian leader thinks he is a cut above the rest and will solve the Kashmir problem in their term, while TSP has no real identity in the world other than associating with Kashmir and hence India (leaving aside the dubious "partnership" on "war on terror")

leeches clinging onto amnesic leadership, so, why is the MEA (the supposed guardian!) incoherent on their policy

politicians can have their drama but can never change the bottomline position, for TSP their army ensures that

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Jul 2009 00:27

vsudhir wrote:Rising disquiet in Cong over PM's Pak line

Smells like media mgmt, like throwing a consolatory bone to any potential genuine disquiet in the desi establishment. Jai Ho.

The well known and well documented problem with the kangressi leaders is their penchant for bootlicking the gandhi clan. They are all eager to be seen as the first to propose that a 'gandhi' occupy the high chair.

It'll be interesting to see what hillary clinton has to say in delhi. There is usually a very fine line that has to be walked while in nai dilli wrt what one says in public. The US seems to understand that indians are suckers for flattery, which is why this 'india is a global power' line, when fact is that the powers that be pulled the rug from under india's feet at G-8.