INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Hey Rahul,
The swedes did this with a bottle of champagne The sub is off to Singapore. As you can see, kaboosh, sub conning tower meets champagne bottle. Hopefully, our coconut hits the side of a plexiglass next to the hull.
http://www.kockums.se/news/svensknews/R ... mpagne.jpg
The swedes did this with a bottle of champagne The sub is off to Singapore. As you can see, kaboosh, sub conning tower meets champagne bottle. Hopefully, our coconut hits the side of a plexiglass next to the hull.
http://www.kockums.se/news/svensknews/R ... mpagne.jpg
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Amazing! This is the first picture of the ATVGagan wrote:This is all the ATV we are going to get to see.
I am going to use it for my desktop.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
They usually stop at Kamat Sagar Yatrinivas for food supplies.kasthuri wrote:Even if they run out of food, can any other submarine deliver food, like mid-air refueling? In that case, they don't have to come out of water at all...Gagan wrote:Of course they are for extracting oxygen on subs. The distilled water is electolyzed to give oxygen for breathing. It is just that DE subs don't have the space and the electrical power to run this level of power hungry operation.
This is why nuclear subs are said to have unlimited endurance limited only by the food running out. They don't have to surface for air.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Off topic - but I am happy to note that all major national channels are busy commemorating Vijay Diwas and the ATV is relegated to a scrolling line.
If the government can be accused of ignoring Vijay Diwas on partisan political grounds - I must give it out to the media who are making sure the day does not go unmarked.
If the government can be accused of ignoring Vijay Diwas on partisan political grounds - I must give it out to the media who are making sure the day does not go unmarked.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
So far this is the best image of the ATV released anywhere. I have scoured all TV channels and could not find a better image
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3938/19946657.jpg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3938/19946657.jpg
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
^^^
It does capture the exact moment the coconut broke.
It does capture the exact moment the coconut broke.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
shiv, I am going to kill you for making me almost die laughingshiv wrote:So far this is the best image of the ATV released anywhere. I have scoured all TV channels and could not find a better image
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3938/19946657.jpg
PS: You forgot in your image that the 1st VIP (one breaking the coconut) doesn't wear pants.
Last edited by Raja Bose on 26 Jul 2009 12:47, edited 1 time in total.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Atleast DD-1 should have released some pics!
Last edited by KrishG on 26 Jul 2009 12:58, edited 1 time in total.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
First things first-- DDM is visible based on the Russian Borat-class as*clown(moments before we never really saw the actual sub in its dock, we noticed DDM were officially trying to pass off a retired sub in a park as the Arihant, indicating they are almost definitely based on Borat).First things first -- the submarine is visible based on the Russian Borei-class SSBN (moments before we saw the real sub in its dock, we noticed the official invitation had a silhouette of the submarine indicating that it's almost definitely based on the Borei). The submarine has a launch crew commanded by Captain Anshuman Dutt. A phenomenal sight in the Matsya Dock of the Shipbuilding Center (SBC), the submarine was slowly towed out, as we I and other journalists sat ten metres from it, pretty much just in absolute amazement, and simply overwhelmed by the moment. The advanced technology vessel!
A dark matted olive shade, its anechoic tiles clearly demarcated (or a bad weld job?) The boat, bearing all the obvious signs of Russian influence, will undergo harbour acceptance trials (HATs) and full systems trials over the next one year, followed by sea trials and then weapon systems trials. The boat does not have a towed array sonar pod, and has a gradual gradiented hump. According to the official figures released today, the submarine is 110-meters long, 11-metres wide and has a submerged displacement of 6,000-tons.
Dark shade of brown, confused, their faces covered in sweat and a half-grown moustache (or a bad grooming job?) The DDM, with their horrible accent and false facts, bearing all the obvious signs of As*clown influence will have to undergo BRF acceptance trials(BRFATs), get their heads out of their as*es, full chastisement of body and soul before dispensing information in the media again.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
This is the "Let me save my honor while I view Indian stuff with disdain and show what I know that others don't" mode being switched on..somnathmukherjee wrote:Gerard,
Are we talking of nuclear missiles or nuclear subs??? Are we disputing geo-politics/hegemony or engineering/shipbuilding skills?
I was refering to this:
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations- ... ubmarines/
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations- ... submarine/
http://www.baesystems.com/BAEProd/group ... asheet.pdf
Need to save some of this stuff for the Indian piskology thread
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
somnathmukherjee wrote:Gerard,
What do you suggest ... 're-invent the wheel'???
To us it appears UK is dependent on US...to them its collaboration (unlike ours with Russia arm twisting all the time)
What are YOU trying to suggest? You were the one who came up with the absurd question that UK is building indigenous nuclear sub and whining about India not building futuristic subs , without realizing that this is the first Indian designed and built submarine, whether conventional or nuclear. Gerard was pointing out that even the UK didn't design and build their nuclear sub from scratch, and that they had US help all the way. He was replying to your absurd comments.
And you are a coconut with you head up the gora's asssomnathmukherjee wrote:Shiv...you think you are a smart ass..... I think you are a dumb ass living in a constant denial mode
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Hmmm.....from this:
to this:somnathmukherjee wrote: So much hogwash for 'indigenous design' 'blah...blah...blah....' !!!
Quite some wiggling out I say BTW if you cant build the wheel, during war your cart won't run unless the wheel maker desires sosomnathmukherjee wrote: What do you suggest ... 're-invent the wheel'???
Have you ever followed US 'collaborative' efforts and all the draconian EUMA/blah-blah restrictions on exported US technology? Don't worry Mukherjee babu, BRF is here for ya and will educate you if you are willing!somnathmukherjee wrote: To us it appears UK is dependent on US...to them its collaboration (unlike ours with Russia arm twisting all the time)
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Someone quoted on the previous page that it looked like a video from a phone camera...sunilUpa wrote:Looks like official video release. Apparently there were three photo/videographers.
[Edited later]
It was Gerard himself. I went off that post...
Gerard wrote:BBC just ran video of coconut breaking (water streaming from the midline pre-cut), MMS speaking (Arihant behind him with sailors standing on top) with a quick pan of the people inside the SBC. The <1 sec pan looked like camera phone quality.
Last edited by putnanja on 27 Jul 2009 07:02, edited 1 time in total.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
Well the backwardness of Yindian technology is so obvious...they break a coconut instead of Champagne bottle like all other 'Adcanced Technology' countries do.
Can we open another thread titled whining/throwing towel -INS Arihant Dhaga..
Can we open another thread titled whining/throwing towel -INS Arihant Dhaga..
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
tauba tauba tauba so much secrecy no clear picture of submarine,even chinese don't have this much secrecy.
how long both russkies and americans took to operationalize their first nuke submarines?
this submarine is tech demonstrator and follow on submarines will have all required systems and sensors.
how long both russkies and americans took to operationalize their first nuke submarines?
this submarine is tech demonstrator and follow on submarines will have all required systems and sensors.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion
well its first nuclear submarine and future submarines depend on the performance of this submarines so its at least testbed.Gagan wrote:The indigenous content is said to be about 40% as per the interview of Vice Admiral A.K. Singh, which will go up to about 70% in the next two subs.
Tech demonstrators don't have anechoic tiles on them. Besides I don't think India has $700 million to blow on just a tech demonstrator.
and i am sure that india can operationalize this submarine in 2 years because russians will be there to help in operationalizing the submarine.
Last edited by Andrew DeCristofaro on 27 Jul 2009 08:09, edited 1 time in total.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Another perpective
THE dream of over a quarter of a century will be fulfilled today when Ms Gursharan Kaur, wife of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, breaks the coconut on the hull of India’s first indigenously constructed nuclear- propelled ballistic missile submarine — called a boomer in popular parlance — at a super- secret Naval base in Visakhapatnam.
At that moment, the 112- metre long black marine monster, now named Arihant ( destroyer of the enemy and it will only be "INS" Arihant after it is commissioned), will be pulled out of its lair — a covered dry dock, nearly halfa- kilometre long and 50 metre deep — where it has been conceived and grown. The building, called the Ship Building Centre at INS Virbhau, the Navy’s base in Vizag, is at the very end of the harbour.
The Indian Navy and the Defence Research and Development Organisation ( DRDO) have expended a great deal of treasure and sweat to reach this point. A year from now, after harbour and sea trials, the Arihant, with a complement of 23 officers and 72 sailors, will join the naval fleet.
What is so special about a boomer? Everything, if you see it from the point of view of the country’s nuclear deterrent.Because of India’s “ no first use” pledge, our weapons must survive a first strike for retaliation.
So the Arihant’s primary weapon is stealth. It can lurk in ocean depths of half a kilometre and more and fire the Sagarika from under the sea. The key lies in its nuclear propulsion. The nuclear reactor of the sub generates heat to turn water into steam in a generator which, in turn, drives the turbine generators which supply the ship with electricity and drive the main propulsion turbines and propeller. There is no stage which requires air or oxygen.
SUBMARINES can be detected by sonar, or sound ranging, and so not only has the Arihant’s propulsion system given a double shield, its outer hull is covered by thick rubber tiles studded with conical gaps that trap sound.
After the first trial of the steam cycle and turbines, the Arihant will be hooked up to the nuclear reactor. The reactor’s fuel rods are currently locked and sealed.They will be unlocked and neutrons will be introduced to start up the 85 MW pressurised water reactor. The reactor will work continuously for anything up to 10 years till the fuel runs out.Then it will be brought back to the dock, the reactor compartment will be cut open, new fuel rods inserted and resealed.
Arihant’s construction got underway in 1998 with Larsen & Toubro machining 13 sections of the hull at its plant in Hazira to a design provided by the Malakit design bureau of Russia. These were then taken in a barge to Vizag and outfitted with their respective equipment — missile launchers, combat information systems, torpedo tubes, ballast tanks, living spaces, sonars, steam generator and turbine and so on. Then they were welded into three distinct sections. The first contained the sonar equipment, torpedo tubes and control systems. The second section comprised of the combat information systems and an array of electronic equipment, accommodation as well as the ballistic missile launchers. The third section, distinct and specially shielded, comprised of the reactor and the steam turbine and gearings.
Considering that India began its first project for the sub in the late 1970s, you could well ask why it has taken so much time.The short answer is that we are not as advanced as we think we are when it comes to engineering, metallurgy, and nuclear science.
The first glimmer of this was visible when in the early 1980s the first project ran aground after spending some $ 4 million ( Rs 20 crore). The second project under the auspices of the DRDO worked on different assumptions, but even it has had a rocky ride.
The plan was for India to acquire the drawings of the Russian Charlie II submarine and fabricate it, and at the same time design its own 100 MW reactor. A new Advanced Technology Vessel programme was created. At the same time, in 1988, a Charlie II, renamed Chakra, was leased from the Soviet Union. The idea was to run it till we had made our own.
UNFORTUNATELY, the Soviet Union collapsed and there was no extension of the lease. By then we had created a number of facilities which included a special pier with a 60- tonne crane, radiation safety services, swimming dock, slipway and workshop, but the project remained in the doldrums.
This was the time, in the mid- 1990s, when the ATV organisation realised how much of a long haul it would be. Components and assemblies for nuclear- propelled submarines had to have a very high quality requirement, something the country lacked.For obvious reasons, precision welding is one of the most important aspects of submarine construction.
More troubling was the fact that the reactor made by the Indira Gandhi Atomic Research Centre, Kalpakkam could not make grade. Once again the Russians helped, quietly.They provided equipment for two VM- 5 pressurised water reactors, one of which was assembled and tested at Kalpakkam’s Prototype Testing Centre in 2004. The Russians have also been helping with the design of the Sagarika, the ballistic missile that will be the main weapon of the Arihant.
The big challenge for the engineers was to use the Charlie II design and modify it by adding one more compartment, the one that carried the ballistic missile tubes which increased its length by 10 m or so. But they managed this and earlier this year the reactor and propulsion unit was finally welded to the other two units. Many Indian companies have been involved. The uranium, enriched at around 20 per cent, has been provided by the Indian uranium enrichment facility at Ratnehalli, near Mysore.
India has another nuclear- propelled submarine en route in 2010, an Akula- class Russian attack submarine which differs from the Arihant which is a ballistic missile sub. Such subs are used to hunt down enemy submarines and ships. Curiously, no one seems to know who wants the Akula. The Navy brass insists it is not them. But the country is expected to spend $ 700 million ( Rs 350 crore) to lease it for a period of 10 years. But then this is what keeps the country’s defence purchases booming.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Strictyly FYI onlyNRao wrote:Sure, that is one aspect I did not think of.
Anonymous said...
Shiv, can you please list the noticeable features. Screw propeller or water jet? where were the torpedo tubes located? any stabilizers? Type of tail fin assembly(ie cross, X)? Did it really resemble the Borei-class. Was the hump straemlined like the Borei's or protruding above hull?
9:37 AM
Anonymous said...
Shiv, was the hump like this Chinese Type 094? ie protruding above the hull unlike the streamlined Borei's one?
10:08 AM
Raoul said...
Hi, can you please post some photos of the sub please?
10:57 AM
Anonymous said...
hi everyone: the hump was gradual and streamlined, not abrupt. we didn't get a look at the propeller, it was already submerged by the time we got there. and there's no towed array sonar pod.
12:42 PM
Dont know, considering the no.of posts logged you are in better position to answer that.But that is what we do on BR too?
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Folks, we (the mods) will be moving posts from the original ATV thread into this one and prepare it for archiving. Some good posts from this thread might also get moved there in due time. The oldest posts take precedence and the thread starter's name may keep changing as the posts are moved into this thread. Just wanted to state this in case people wonder what is going on.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
OK, ok, I deleted the sensitive post with the hi-res satellite photos showing the true shape of the thing. But now comes the reaction:
INS Arihant launch a destabilising step, says Pakistan
(might have gone better if they hadn't murdered the French submarine engineers just to extort baksheesh)
And to help the Pakis "go":
INS Arihant launch a destabilising step, says Pakistan
"a destabilising step which would jeopardise the security paradigm of the entire Indian Ocean region"... government will have to decide about Pakistan making its own nuclear submarine though the navy is fully prepared to implement any decision taken by the government...
(might have gone better if they hadn't murdered the French submarine engineers just to extort baksheesh)
And to help the Pakis "go":
Defence Minister A K Antony said the nuclear submarine was crucial for a credible second strike capability in view of India's voluntary 'no first use' nuclear weapon policy.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Excellent block diagram description ..but the image description does not talk about towed sonar pod or i am missing that ...
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Rahulji, Gurus, all,
This thought occurred to me when reading about intelligence and all.
The next few years of will be spent on testing INS Arihant in the Bay of Bengal. Now with some careful co-ordination, it is possible for countries to monitor the port with satellites and have subs wait in the area to learn its sound signatures.
What are the chances of the above happening?
If it is the case, will the Navy offer some kind of protection every time it is in water?
This thought occurred to me when reading about intelligence and all.
The next few years of will be spent on testing INS Arihant in the Bay of Bengal. Now with some careful co-ordination, it is possible for countries to monitor the port with satellites and have subs wait in the area to learn its sound signatures.
What are the chances of the above happening?
If it is the case, will the Navy offer some kind of protection every time it is in water?
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
100%. Nobody plays nice in this game...Neela wrote:What are the chances of the above happening?
Yes, 100%. Presently nuke-nude yindoo submarine with still healing coconut scar will be escorted by ASW equipped ships and some non-Foxtrots to mask propellor noise and keep foreign submarines at kosher distance. Expect an underwater traffic jam around Visakhapatnam when it is time for Arihant's full-fledged Baptism.Neela wrote:If it is the case, will the Navy offer some kind of protection every time it is in water?
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Some graphics uploaded by junta at livefist that are said to be close to arihant.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4056/atv2.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arihant.svg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4056/atv2.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arihant.svg
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
the white patch on front of sail might be location of a mine avoidance sonar.
the shape of white on bow indicates a cylindrical not spherical sonar.
the shape of white on bow indicates a cylindrical not spherical sonar.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
does IN use frogmen, for providing protection to its vessels during foreign port calls ?Neela wrote: If it is the case, will the Navy offer some kind of protection every time it is in water?
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Puki media says, India to build Vanguard Class sub
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg7_4
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg7_4
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
So the negative foreign press reports start.....
Since when has anything Pakistan has to say become news?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8171715.stm
Since when has anything Pakistan has to say become news?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8171715.stm
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Based on Sandeep Unninathan's/Shiv Aroor's drawings of Arihant, I have come up with a new 3d-model. I'm still working on it. I'll post the basic hull shape of this design.
Sorry for the bad asymmetrical seven-blade design!
Sorry for the bad asymmetrical seven-blade design!
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
It does look cute like a gigantic dolphin. Was checking out the power plants of various nuclear subs and apparently wikipedia says 'Reactor sizes range up to 55 MW in the larger submarines and surface ships' ? Arihant reportedly has a 80 MW reactor.. ddm ?? And the sonar mounted is one of the largest installed in any sub ! This baby boomer seems to keep a lot of surprises in store.Any real pics of arihant in open media ?
Hope they will do away with the conning tower and put in electronic masts in the next edition
Hope they will do away with the conning tower and put in electronic masts in the next edition
Last edited by kit on 28 Jul 2009 18:46, edited 1 time in total.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Hi Krish thats awesome. One samll suggestion to the drawing. The bow section should be little curved downwards as you see in dolphins, seawolf class sub...that would make it littile closer, i guess.
You may find the diagram useful
http://www.naval-technology.com/project ... awolf3.jpg
R u using 3d max for the diagram?
You may find the diagram useful
http://www.naval-technology.com/project ... awolf3.jpg
R u using 3d max for the diagram?
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Speaking of Vanguard, these chaps have active noise cancellation techniques making them near invisible .. a la Triumph collision in the high seas , so that also goes into the wish list for Arihant 2nd edition
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
akula 2 also has active noise cancellation. navyheads may correct me but I think it was the first in-service sub to feature that tech.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Thanks Rahul ..didnt know that
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
Krish,
Nice job - what software is this?
Coming to the design, I'd think the hump would be flatter, given that it's the portal for the SLBMs/SLCMs, and it won't have such a pronounced 'spearhead' shape (as seen from the top view), more likely a simple rectangle, or at least more elongated, a gentle bullet shape.
Would the sub also be a bit longer?
Hadn't Austin said something about a very interesting sail design? I'm thinking something like the Borei, with a jutting portion at the rear and sloping forwards in front. And would the fore horizontal stabilisers/planes be mounted on the sail or on the hull? Russian designs tend to have them on the hull, yes?
Of course, if being accurate is not such a good idea, maybe we should stop this thread and sit back in the warm (if slightly frustrated) glow of simply having this monster on our side.
Nice job - what software is this?
Coming to the design, I'd think the hump would be flatter, given that it's the portal for the SLBMs/SLCMs, and it won't have such a pronounced 'spearhead' shape (as seen from the top view), more likely a simple rectangle, or at least more elongated, a gentle bullet shape.
Would the sub also be a bit longer?
Hadn't Austin said something about a very interesting sail design? I'm thinking something like the Borei, with a jutting portion at the rear and sloping forwards in front. And would the fore horizontal stabilisers/planes be mounted on the sail or on the hull? Russian designs tend to have them on the hull, yes?
Of course, if being accurate is not such a good idea, maybe we should stop this thread and sit back in the warm (if slightly frustrated) glow of simply having this monster on our side.
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
No the sail is like Delta3/4 types with large hydroplanes on sail , knowledgeable people who have seen the sub say the hull looks more streamlined which is very good from broadband noise pov and looks closer to Borei.
Again i am not saying this is more like this or that sub , it is possible that our folks who were initially trained at Rubin might have tried different design , there may be some ideas or influence and consultancy from Rubin which may influence our design , plus our sub designers will feel this is the optimum design that meet our needs.
Atleast in our first attempt we could do what looks like far better than Chinki panda did with many decades of sub design experience , credit to our designers and engineers who helped us leap frog and build modern sub , even the latest Chinki design have Hump which looks to me more ugly than Delta
Again i am not saying this is more like this or that sub , it is possible that our folks who were initially trained at Rubin might have tried different design , there may be some ideas or influence and consultancy from Rubin which may influence our design , plus our sub designers will feel this is the optimum design that meet our needs.
Atleast in our first attempt we could do what looks like far better than Chinki panda did with many decades of sub design experience , credit to our designers and engineers who helped us leap frog and build modern sub , even the latest Chinki design have Hump which looks to me more ugly than Delta
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
KrishG wrote:Based on Sandeep Unninathan's/Shiv Aroor's drawings of Arihant, I have come up with a new 3d-model. I'm still working on it. I'll post the basic hull shape of this design.
Hi krish..
I dont know why your solid model shows a seam at the sonar section & also the hump behind the sail.. some suggestions
1. try to get rid of the seam at both places
2. behind the sail - make it a small hump blending into the circular section as gradual & smooth blend..
3. Immediatly behind the hump - make it a gradual sloping to reduce diameter till the screw..
4. Is your model 11m dia & 110m long -- aspect ratio does not look like that.. Try to fix that if required.. (it doesnt look long enough in the pics posted -- looks too stubby)
5. Dont know if it is optical aberration - but the sail looks too high.. Try to reduce the height of the sail..
There is an ATV-speculation2 in the comments section of Shiv's blog.. try to model based on that..
Good luck.. cant wait to see your final model
Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2
It looks like you have used the solidworks s/w for rendering the Sub surface.KrishG wrote:Based on Sandeep Unninathan's/Shiv Aroor's drawings of Arihant, I have come up with a new 3d-model. I'm still working on it. I'll post the basic hull shape of this design.
THe bow should have tear drop shape than a stub shape.
http://www.nstcenter.org/writeup.aspx?t ... bMain.html
http://www.nstcenter.org/writeup.aspx?t ... rHull.html