Indian Military Aviation

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Katare
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Katare » 28 Sep 2009 22:07

When the first batch of refueler was ordered way back when in late 90s I guess that's what all IAF could afford and get easily. In last 10+ years IAF's thinking, budget and threat perceptions have changed. It makes sense to choose a modern platform that'll be supported in future (next 30 years and beyond) by a large global company and it's domestic market. Il-78 family may not survive in next 2-3 decade or it'll survive on life support with bills being footed by IAF and Russian govt.

I think they should order at least a dozen Airbus refuelers to begin with. All future combat aircrafts of IAF/IN would need IFR support to exploit their entire capabilities.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gagan » 28 Sep 2009 22:34

The IL-78s arrived a few months before POK-2 ~ Feb - Mar 1998.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya G » 28 Sep 2009 23:28

Rahul, Airbus was IAF's choice per Livefist report - not by the 'babus'.

Airbus is a much more capable refuler compared to IL-78. Vivek Ahuja had posted some graphs here on the forum per which this refueler can supply more fuel at a longer distance from the base. It simply outclasses IL-78 on range and fuel payload.

IL-76 is a superb military transport and has served us well. For sake of commonality IL-78 does make sense. However it is not an ideal aircraft for all roles. Other advantages of IL-78 which I can see is lower cost and ability to convert to transport role.

We are comparing apples and oranges here - so lets hope that the combined IAF-GoI decision making selects the best choice. However the decision making should not postpone the purchase indefinitely :roll:

PS: Perhaps IAF can evaluate IL-78 with PS-90 engines? And also re-engine IL-76 with same.

Rahul M wrote:at one level it makes sense. if you are buying only 6 new refuelers you should go with the IL-78 only. makes no sense to introduce yet another type.

new type makes sense only if the number is much larger and frankly, IAF does need a much larger fleet of refuelers. unfortunately due to the bean-counters @ MoF and MoD, IAF has had to develop a strategy of ordering one sqn at a time, a decidedly inefficient and costly way to place orders.

typical of babus, penny wise and pound foolish. :roll:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2009 23:43

AG, I didn't say that the choice was made by babus but the low numbers are more than likely due to funding restrictions imposed by babus.

let me quote the relevant part
.......new type makes sense only if the number is much larger and frankly, IAF does need a much larger fleet of refuelers. unfortunately due to the bean-counters @ MoF and MoD, IAF has had to develop a strategy of ordering one sqn at a time, a decidedly inefficient and costly way to place orders.......

we can be pretty certain that IAF would ideally want at least 25-30 tankers. (rough rule of thumb - 6 each for the WAC, EAC,CAC and SWAC + reserves)
for a country India's size a lesser number makes no sense. RAF, guarding a much smaller country and expecting to operate a force many times smaller than IAF in future is looking at 14 !

coming to other point, ordering unit by unit is a fact of life for Indian armed forces. almost every major platform has been ordered that way, from the jaguars to the sukhois. all because of bean counters. my point is simply that 6 will not be the eventual size of new tanker orders for IAF. we may as well stop fooling around and place an appropriately large order that will give us the financial and other benefits.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vijyeta » 28 Sep 2009 23:49

Gagan wrote:The IL-78s arrived a few months before POK-2 ~ Feb - Mar 1998.


The IL78s were inducted in 2003

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 30 Sep 2009 06:28

Kartik wrote:what if the same happens when such a fighter meets the MiG-21 Bison with its Kopyo ? same result. the MiG-21 won't be aware of the otehr fighter and will be fired upon well before its aware of the other fighter's presence. the Bison's Kopyo only has a detection range of around 55 kms, not 80 kms and thats because of the size of the radar array, which is limited by the nose diameter on the MiG-21. the same is true of the SHar and thats why its detection range won't be great either. the regular Elta 2032 with a bigger array has a much higher detection range, claimed by its manufacturer to be around 120 kms not 46 kms for a regular sized array.

elta 2032 comes in different power rating and sizes for different fighters just like kopyo,zhuk me,zhuk 27 and thats why the detection range varies according to the variant

elta 2032 radar comes for

mig21(lancer upgrade),SHAR,F5 fighter which have relatively small nose cone about 500mm or less

second type of elta2032 radar comes for mig29(sniper upgrade),f16 620mm-700mm nose cone dia

third type comes for f15 size fighters which have 900mm diameter nose cone

this is just like GRIFO radar family

GRIFO radar for F-7, MIRAGE 3/F1/5, F5(freedom fighter) has around 500mm diameter of antenna
link http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/GRIFO_FAMILY.pdf

GRIFO radar for mig23,29,f16,m2000,jf-17,mig25 which have nose cone of diameter of over 620mm
http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/GRIFO_S.pdf

nose cone of SHAR isn't bigger than mig21 nose cone so only 500 mm diameter of antenna can be fitted to SHAR and mig21,so elta2032 can't have bigger array more than 500mm so its detection range at this is just 46 km

elta 2032 radar 120km detection range corresponds to larger array radar in the class of zhuk me,apg68(v9)

kopyo M radar has 80 km detection range which is better than kopyo 21I radar with detection range of 55km on indian mig21bison

kopyo M and kopyo 21I difference which i already posted before but posting link again scroll down and clear your doubt
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craft/aircraft_99-102.pdf

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gagan » 30 Sep 2009 07:01

vijyeta wrote:
Gagan wrote:The IL-78s arrived a few months before POK-2 ~ Feb - Mar 1998.


The IL78s were inducted in 2003

According to this: NTI: Nuclear Chronology - India 1998

1998
India receives six Il-78 flight refueling tankers from Russia.
—W.P.S. Sidhu, "India Sees Safety in Nuclear Triad and Second Strike Potential," Jane's Intelligence Review (Coulsdon, Surrey), July 1998, p. 23.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby George J » 30 Sep 2009 10:25

Gagan wrote:According to this: NTI: Nuclear Chronology - India 1998...............


Here try this:
http://tinyurl.com/yklb4rc

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 30 Sep 2009 10:40

Baldev wrote:elta 2032 comes in different power rating and sizes for different fighters just like kopyo,zhuk me,zhuk 27 and thats why the detection range varies according to the variant

elta 2032 radar comes for

mig21(lancer upgrade),SHAR,F5 fighter which have relatively small nose cone about 500mm or less

second type of elta2032 radar comes for mig29(sniper upgrade),f16 620mm-700mm nose cone dia

third type comes for f15 size fighters which have 900mm diameter nose cone

this is just like GRIFO radar family

GRIFO radar for F-7, MIRAGE 3/F1/5, F5(freedom fighter) has around 500mm diameter of antenna
link http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/GRIFO_FAMILY.pdf

GRIFO radar for mig23,29,f16,m2000,jf-17,mig25 which have nose cone of diameter of over 620mm
http://www.selexgalileo.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/GRIFO_S.pdf

nose cone of SHAR isn't bigger than mig21 nose cone so only 500 mm diameter of antenna can be fitted to SHAR and mig21,so elta2032 can't have bigger array more than 500mm so its detection range at this is just 46 km

elta 2032 radar 120km detection range corresponds to larger array radar in the class of zhuk me,apg68(v9)

kopyo M radar has 80 km detection range which is better than kopyo 21I radar with detection range of 55km on indian mig21bison

kopyo M and kopyo 21I difference which i already posted before but posting link again scroll down and clear your doubt
http://www.roe.ru/cataloque/air_craft/aircraft_99-102.pdf

Baldev, I know that the 2032 array and power requirements can be sized for a given fighter. Eltas brochure claims a detection range of upto 80 NM (what is not clear is what RCS target) and air-to-sea detection range of upto 160NM. the Kopyo on the MiG-21 has the following specs
Kopyo has an air-to-air track-while-scan ("SNP") mode, it tracks 8 targets, and engages 2 simultaneously. The simultaneous engagement capability has been demonstrated.

It retains a single target track mode. Search range in lookup is 57km headon and 30 km in pursuit, with a tracking range of 45km, against a 3 sq m RCS target. Lookdown mode ranges are the same in headon but slightly reduced in pursuit mode (20km).

It has vertical scan, automatic HUD scan (± 14°), optical (pilot selected target on HUD) and helmet close combat modes.

Air-to-surface operating modes are comprehensive, something Phazotron only introduced in the current crop of radar designs. There are three mapping modes; low resolution (real beam) at ; medium resolution (Doppler beam sharpening, 10:1); high resolution (synthetic aperture, 100:1). Resolution in low res at 80km is 300x300m, in medum res at 60km is 30x30m, and high res at 60km is 10x5m.

Range against a large ship is 200km, a railroad bridge is 100km, a missile boat 80km and a moving group of tanks 20km.

Allows detection of moving ground targets, sea surface search, map freezing and interfaces with the Kh-31A antiship missile for target handoff.


all in all, no big difference between the two, but the IN decided to go with the Elta.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sunny y » 30 Sep 2009 11:18

India to get Israeli killer drones by 2011

http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090929/80 ... nes-b.html

How difficult is it to convert a simple UAV into lethal UCAV ??
I mean we already have excellent nishant....Shouldn't we try to convert it into UCAV ??
Is something related to this currently going on ??


Regards

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 30 Sep 2009 11:41

gagan, you should have looked at the most reliable source on Indian military, right ? :wink:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircr ... Il-76.html
Defence Minister Jaswant Singh, in a written reply to Parliament in July 2001, said the IAF is acquiring six IL-78/78M in-flight refueling aircraft from Uzbekistan. The price negotiation committee completed its work in February 2001 and the contracts were signed in April 2001. The price per aircraft has been put at approximately $50 million.

The first two Il-78s arrived in the first half of 2003 and are believed to be part of a newly raised No.78 "Battle Cry" Squadron. We should however mention that the information on the Squadron is yet to be confirmed by official sources. The Il-78MKI as it was designated in the IAF made its first public appearance in the Air Force Day Parade on 8th October 2003. It is evident from photographs that the Il-78s had carried out operations with the Su-30MKIs and various variants of the Jaguar family.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rakall » 30 Sep 2009 13:29

sunny y wrote:India to get Israeli killer drones by 2011

http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090929/80 ... nes-b.html

How difficult is it to convert a simple UAV into lethal UCAV ??
I mean we already have excellent nishant....Shouldn't we try to convert it into UCAV ??
Is something related to this currently going on ??


Regards


Nishant has already been tested (secretly) with 50lb bombs (or is it 50kg bombs) under the wings.. this is part of the learning curve effort..

Ultimately Rustom will be equipped with missiles under the wings..

PS: the info as per uys at ADE pavilion at AI09 hosuing the full-scale mockup of Rustom..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 30 Sep 2009 16:55



Will Pakis get the predator? I doubt, because Pakis can use them against Uncle?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby ashish raval » 30 Sep 2009 17:37

I strongly believe that India should invest much more in technology of "Drone killer" than just acquiring "Killer Drone".

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 30 Sep 2009 18:28

Kartik wrote:Baldev, I know that the 2032 array and power requirements can be sized for a given fighter. Eltas brochure claims a detection range of upto 80 NM (what is not clear is what RCS target) and air-to-sea detection range of upto 160NM. the Kopyo on the MiG-21 has the following specs
Kopyo has an air-to-air track-while-scan ("SNP") mode, it tracks 8 targets, and engages 2 simultaneously. The simultaneous engagement capability has been demonstrated.

It retains a single target track mode. Search range in lookup is 57km headon and 30 km in pursuit, with a tracking range of 45km, against a 3 sq m RCS target. Lookdown mode ranges are the same in headon but slightly reduced in pursuit mode (20km).

It has vertical scan, automatic HUD scan (± 14°), optical (pilot selected target on HUD) and helmet close combat modes.

Air-to-surface operating modes are comprehensive, something Phazotron only introduced in the current crop of radar designs. There are three mapping modes; low resolution (real beam) at ; medium resolution (Doppler beam sharpening, 10:1); high resolution (synthetic aperture, 100:1). Resolution in low res at 80km is 300x300m, in medum res at 60km is 30x30m, and high res at 60km is 10x5m.

Range against a large ship is 200km, a railroad bridge is 100km, a missile boat 80km and a moving group of tanks 20km.

Allows detection of moving ground targets, sea surface search, map freezing and interfaces with the Kh-31A antiship missile for target handoff.


all in all, no big difference between the two, but the IN decided to go with the Elta.

here is brochure of elta 2032
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/6/27546.pdf

air to air detection range generally corresponds to fighter sized target of f16,mig29 class :)

you are looking at the range but not on Physical Characteristics

Weight: 72-100 Kg depending on antenna size.

Power: 2-3 KVA. depending on Transmitter configuration.

Antenna Size: adapted to aircraft nose limitations.


the 80NM of air to air detection range corresponds to largest variant of radar

you can't expect the 80NM or 150km detection range when radar fitted to mig21,f5 ,SHAR

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 30 Sep 2009 21:40

Baldev wrote:air to air detection range generally corresponds to fighter sized target of f16,mig29 class :)

you are looking at the range but not on Physical Characteristics

Weight: 72-100 Kg depending on antenna size.

Power: 2-3 KVA. depending on Transmitter configuration.

Antenna Size: adapted to aircraft nose limitations.


the 80NM of air to air detection range corresponds to largest variant of radar

you can't expect the 80NM or 150km detection range when radar fitted to mig21,f5 ,SHAR


what physical characteristics am I not looking at ? the 2032 is also lightweight and the array is sized to the SHars nose as has been advertised by Elta since years and is known on this forum for years as well, so you're not pointing out something that no one else knew.

and I have'nt at any time claimed that the Elta 2032 on the SHar has a detection range of 120 NM. I have clearly said its for a regularly sized array, and the SHar has a smaller array. we all know that ok ? what is pure conjecture is the size of the array fitted on the SHar and what power it requires and based on that what detection and tracking range the Elta 2032 has.

the point is, the Kopyo doesn't seem to offer any better detection or tracking performance for a similar sized array, so I really can't see what you are arguing about. I showed you how the MiG-21's Kopyo detection and tracking in look-up mode in head-on is 56 kms for a 3m2 target (F-16 sized target) and 30 kms in pursuit and lower in look-down mode and its from an authoritative source. there is no advantage that the Kopyo has over the Elta 2032 in weight, detection range or any other aspect. I don't see how any of your points prove anything to the contrary.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 01 Oct 2009 01:49

Kartik wrote:what physical characteristics am I not looking at ? the 2032 is also lightweight and the array is sized to the SHars nose as has been advertised by Elta since years and is known on this forum for years as well, so you're not pointing out something that no one else knew.

and I have'nt at any time claimed that the Elta 2032 on the SHar has a detection range of 120 NM. I have clearly said its for a regularly sized array, and the SHar has a smaller array. we all know that ok ? what is pure conjecture is the size of the array fitted on the SHar and what power it requires and based on that what detection and tracking range the Elta 2032 has.

the point is, the Kopyo doesn't seem to offer any better detection or tracking performance for a similar sized array, so I really can't see what you are arguing about. I showed you how the MiG-21's Kopyo detection and tracking in look-up mode in head-on is 56 kms for a 3m2 target (F-16 sized target) and 30 kms in pursuit and lower in look-down mode and its from an authoritative source. there is no advantage that the Kopyo has over the Elta 2032 in weight, detection range or any other aspect. I don't see how any of your points prove anything to the contrary.
don't know from where you got 56km for a 3^sq target when all official data says its 5^sq not 3^sq

i am not talking about the kopyo21I radar which is fitted to indian mig21 which has range of 56 km
kopyo M isn't the same kopyo 21I fitted to mig21bison for this i posted the link as well

radar

kopyo m weighs 85kg with 80km range
kopyo 21I radar(fitted to mig21) weighs 100kg with range 56km

elta2032 fitted to SHAR has 520mm diameter same fitted to MIG21 LANCER

here is link
http://www.enemyforces.net/aircraft/mig21.htm

kopyo 21I and kopyoM have smaller diameter array compared to 520mm array of elta2032

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shanksinha » 01 Oct 2009 03:07

Couldnt Resist this.
The MiG-29 K VIDEO on the deck of Kuznetsov:
http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=245068&p=1&sort=1&sub_sort=0&cid=320

Now is that a beautiful bird or is that a beautiful bird!

P.S: Ruskies seem very gungho about the way they carry on these tests.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Anurag » 01 Oct 2009 03:33

Nice find!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 01 Oct 2009 04:16

Excellent video! WOW! compare this to the original K's kuznetsov vids and you can clearly see the difference in terms of smoke reduction! She looks great.

BTW, anyone notice the white rings on the nose cone - any ideas what they are there for?

CM.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gagan » 01 Oct 2009 04:25

My my how the russians bless the pilot and the aircraft's arrestor hook. :eek: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby John » 01 Oct 2009 04:52

Big improvement over the original video here. Comparing the two you can see few difference apart from the smoke: slower landing speed..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby vijyeta » 01 Oct 2009 06:00

Awesome Video.

Two questions -

1. There seemed be some Mig29Ks with Russian markings parked on the deck .... the original birds from the late 80's?

2. Why can't the K be used on Viraat? ( Lack of arrestor cables.... what else? )

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Oct 2009 06:58


Baldev
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 01 Oct 2009 07:09


same going to happen with MRCA,cost set for purchase is 10 billion :mrgreen:
but i rather like if a330 is choosen because il78 isn't in production
production set to start in 2011-12 :)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Oct 2009 07:50

Baldev wrote:

same going to happen with MRCA,cost set for purchase is 10 billion :mrgreen:


Yup.

They will go out and order the M2K line.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby negi » 01 Oct 2009 07:54

This is even more hilarious I thought ballpark figure of the ceiling value of whole contract is already set when RFPs are sent out and specially in case of military equipment where the amount only goes up with time for the same platform. :)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 01 Oct 2009 18:48

NRao wrote:Yup
They will go out and order the M2K line.

russia opened the closed production line of mig29k for just 16 aircraft that too in 750million
and france did not even care for M2000 production line to keep it going/opened even for 10 billion mega order :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sid_ashar » 01 Oct 2009 19:28

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8284073.stm

This seems like a continuing saga with BAE systems. Since the IAF has been a recent BAE customer for the Hawk, I thought I would post this here. Just a whiff of a scandal is enough to blacklist any firm these days so even though the Hawk deal with India is not mentioned in the report, you never know what the babus of today will do.

I thought the IN was interested in the Hawk also as a trainer even though the IAF seems to have decided to float another RFP for follow on trainers.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby krishnan » 01 Oct 2009 19:30

Baldev wrote:
NRao wrote:Yup
They will go out and order the M2K line.

russia opened the closed production line of mig29k for just 16 aircraft that too in 750million
and france did not even care for M2000 production line to keep it going/opened even for 10 billion mega order :mrgreen:


Who said they arent willing to?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Oct 2009 19:31

Baldev wrote:
NRao wrote:Yup
They will go out and order the M2K line.

russia opened the closed production line of mig29k for just 16 aircraft that too in 750million
and france did not even care for M2000 production line to keep it going/opened even for 10 billion mega order :mrgreen:


Rarely, very rarely is the problem outside India. (Just an observation on my part.)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Vipul » 01 Oct 2009 20:45

IAF to phase out HPT-32 trainer aircraft by 2014.

After losing two of its experienced fighter pilot instructors in a trainer aircraft crash in July, the IAF is all set to phase out such jets by 2014, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said on Thursday.

"The IAF lost two experienced instructors in a fatal crash of HPT-32 this year. We have ordered an inquiry and a study on the aircraft, as we have had a lot of problems since their induction in 1984. We hope to use it only till 2013-14," Naik told reporters here.

HPT-32 or Hindustan Piston Trainer of HAL is IAF's primary aircraft for basic fighter pilot training. Two of IAF's instructors were killed in the mishap near Medak involving this aircraft on July 31 following which the aircraft was grounded leading to a crisis in training.

"I have ordered a special study by Air Vice Marshal Pradeep Singh, an experienced fighter pilot on the problems with HPT-32. Other agencies are also involved in the study," Naik said.

As an alternative, the Air Force chief said the rookie pilots were now being trained on another indigenous HAL aircraft, the Kirans.

"This experiment of training on Kirans has been quite successful. May be, for another year-and-a-half we will continue with this. I am sure by then, we will be able to find an alternative to HPT-32 to continue training unhindered," he added.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 01 Oct 2009 21:25

Inducted in 1984, problemS since then, study ordered in 2009, phase out in 2013-14.

Any talk of a great replacement? Or has a study been ordered for that too?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Neeraj Bagga » 01 Oct 2009 22:29

Vipul wrote:IAF to phase out HPT-32 trainer aircraft by 2014.

After losing two of its experienced fighter pilot instructors in a trainer aircraft crash in July, the IAF is all set to phase out such jets by 2014, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said on Thursday.


HPT 32 is not a "Jet"

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Neeraj Bagga » 01 Oct 2009 22:31

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/hpt-32_2.jpg


For those few of us who don't know what the HPT 32 looks like.
Last edited by Rahul M on 01 Oct 2009 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please do not post large images inline.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Neeraj Bagga » 01 Oct 2009 22:32

Possible Replacement for HPT 32 "Deepak"
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/hansa_takeoff.jpg
Last edited by Rahul M on 01 Oct 2009 22:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please do not post large images inline.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Jamal K. Malik » 01 Oct 2009 22:41


Kartik
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 02 Oct 2009 00:10

Baldev wrote:don't know from where you got 56km for a 3^sq target when all official data says its 5^sq not 3^sq


the site is this, a very comprehensive list of all Russian avionics and a pretty authoritative source.
i am not talking about the kopyo21I radar which is fitted to indian mig21 which has range of 56 km
kopyo M isn't the same kopyo 21I fitted to mig21bison for this i posted the link as well


regarding the Kopyo M, the site whose link I gave above states that

Kopyo-M largely identical to Kopyo, but with a TS501F modern reprogrammable data processor and a TS181F digital computer. Weight is slightly reduced, to 90kg, volume also reduced to 230dm3, and reliability increased to 200h MTBF due to more modern electronics. The improved data processing capability boosts search range to 75km and tracking range to 56km. Kopyo-M has raid assessment capability, a new wide angle close combat mode, tracks 10-12 and engages 4 in TWS mode, and can track 4 ground targets simultaneously. SAR mode resolution is improved to 3m x 3m.

Baldev
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Baldev » 02 Oct 2009 03:53

Kartik wrote:
Baldev wrote:don't know from where you got 56km for a 3^sq target when all official data says its 5^sq not 3^sq


the site is this, a very comprehensive list of all Russian avionics and a pretty authoritative source.
i am not talking about the kopyo21I radar which is fitted to indian mig21 which has range of 56 km
kopyo M isn't the same kopyo 21I fitted to mig21bison for this i posted the link as well


regarding the Kopyo M, the site whose link I gave above states that

Kopyo-M largely identical to Kopyo, but with a TS501F modern reprogrammable data processor and a TS181F digital computer. Weight is slightly reduced, to 90kg, volume also reduced to 230dm3, and reliability increased to 200h MTBF due to more modern electronics. The improved data processing capability boosts search range to 75km and tracking range to 56km. Kopyo-M has raid assessment capability, a new wide angle close combat mode, tracks 10-12 and engages 4 in TWS mode, and can track 4 ground targets simultaneously. SAR mode resolution is improved to 3m x 3m.

so now you come to know that kopyo m has better detection range than kopyo21I on indian mig21s

actually kopyo M is upgraded kopyo21I
this proves kopyo M has superior detection range compared to elta2032 on SHAR

kopyo m search range to 75km and tracking range to 56km
kopyo 21I search range 56km and tracking range 45km

do note that russian analog to apg78 radar on apache. mast mounted Arbalet radar
http://aerospace.boopidoo.com/philez/Su ... rbalet.jpg
http://aerospace.boopidoo.com/philez/Su ... t-mast.jpg

Juggi G
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Juggi G » 02 Oct 2009 04:01



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