Indian Military Aviation

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Feb 2010 00:54

Indian fighters to be armed with BrahMos missiles in 2012

06 Feb 2010 8ak: India’s frontline fighter aircraft Su-30MKIs will be armed with BrahMos missiles the vice president of the Irkut Corporation, Vladimir Sautov, said at the Singapore Air Show 2010 on Thursday. As of now IAF Su-30s are being modified in order to incorporate the new BrahMos missiles as a part of its arsenal. The modification work is being carried out by Rosoboronexport, the Sukhoi Design Bureau and NPO Mashinostroyeniya.

Once the induction of the airborne version of BrahMos begins, all three arms of the forces will have the supersonic missiles in their inventory. The Missile developed jointly by India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Russia’s Mashinostroeyenia is considered to be the most sophisticated and fastest in its class around the globe.

There is a possibility that the two nations will jointly develop a hypersonic Mach 8 version of BrahMos in the future. Mach 8 version if developed, will fulfil an Indian Navy requirement of a formidable Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) LACM and also pose a deadly threat to enemy warships sporting elaborate air defence radar systems like the "AEGIS type" vessels under construction for the Chinese People Liberation Army Navy (PLAN).

BrahMos supersonic cruise missile can be launched from land, aircraft, Submarines and Ships and has a maximum range of 290 km. The acronym BrahMos is perceived as the confluence of the two nations represented by two rivers, the Brahmaputra of India and the Moskya of Russia. It travels at speeds of Mach 2.5 to 2.8 and is about three-and-a-half times faster than America’s subsonic Harpoon and Tomahawk cruise missile.

The ship-launched and land-based missiles can carry a 200 kg warhead, whereas the aircraft-launched variant (BrahMos A) can carry a 300 kg warhead. It has a two-stage propulsion system, with a solid-propellant rocket for initial acceleration and a liquid-fuelled ramjet responsible for sustained supersonic cruise. Air-breathing ramjet propulsion is much more fuel-efficient than rocket propulsion, giving the BrahMos a longer range than a pure rocket-powered missile would achieve.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 07 Feb 2010 00:59

Mach 8 , thats a surpise.

I thought the last report which came in was about it being lab tested to a speed of Mach 5. Never knew they planned to increase speed furthur.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Feb 2010 01:08

not to jump the gun or anything but this is still unclear... Mach 8 for 290KM is highly doubtful..Will be a feat of sorts if they can physically achieve this (keeping the weight/size and fuel requirements the same, SCRAMJET perhaps

)TBD.
I think it will have an average speed of around mach 5~ 6 and a TOP speed of Mach 8, but I guess only time will tell..

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Feb 2010 03:09

perhaps, it can do an escape velocity to hit enemy sats [air-space variant].

any news about the lean-mean variety?

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 07 Feb 2010 07:22

escape velocity on the surface of the Earth (sea level) = ~11km/s

mach 8 = 2.7km/s at sea level

"escape velocity" changes as altitude above sea level increases.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2010 08:38

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/secti ... 113&page=0

top right of the page is a clever ad by boeing. a group of kids are playing cricket
in a desolate area of ladakh....then suddenly a Chinook flies across the screen.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2010 12:34

TOI - now the boot should be applied to BELs backside to complete the entire order within
2 yrs. our rates of production of even basic dal roti stuff is ridiculously bad. the ussr
stockpiled a estimated 100,000 SAMS by early 1980s.

it might well prove necessary to fire 5 missiles per attacking ac to bring them down or
deter them. a week of high intensity war will see us running out of missiles.

I strongly think a alternate missile production facility under the control of someone like
Tata or Mahindra be established to have a backup to BEL/BDL.

* IAF orders 750 Akash missiles

BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has ordered an additional 750 Akash medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) from state-run defence behemoth Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) at a cost of Rs 42.79 billion ($925 million), it was announced on Tuesday.

"A decision to place this fresh order with BEL was taken after the IAF expressed satisfaction with the performance of the Akash missiles that are deployed in two squadrons," defence minister AK Antony said on Tuesday.

The IAF will deploy 125 missiles each in six squadrons as and when BEL delivers them.

"The first order for 250 missiles was placed last year on a pilot basis. The IAF has decided to deploy the weapon in more squadrons for optimal use," Antony said after inaugurating the digital flight control (DFC) computer facility at BEL here.

BEL chairman and managing director Ashwani Kumar Datt said that the first order was worth Rs 12.21 billion.

Designed and developed by the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the Akash missile defence system is part of the country's integrated guided missile development programme.

"The missile can target an enemy aircraft up to 30 km away, at altitudes up to 18,000 meters and can be fired from both tracked and wheeled platforms," Datt told reporters on the margins of the function.

The missile is capable of carrying conventional as well as nuclear warheads with a payload of 60 kg.

On the occasion, BEL also handed over to the defence minister an advanced gun fire control system for the Indian Navy.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 08 Feb 2010 06:33

Talk of Sukhoi's getting a base in Andaman & Nicobar islands. The Sukhois which flew for the Indian Naval conference, were flown from West Bengal and were refueled mid-flight.
India looks to play facilitator's role in Indian Ocean Region

With Sukhoi-30MKI fighters generating sonic booms over the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago on Sunday, even as the 3,500-km Agni-III missile created fireworks off the Orissa coast, India sent a strong strategic message across Bay of Bengal that it is ready to play the role of a security facilitator in the larger Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

The endeavour to build "interoperability" with other friendly Asia-Pacific maritime forces can be gauged from the fact that a "table-top exercise" conducted at the ongoing multilateral Milan conclave with 12 foreign navies revolved around the security challenges of dealing with the problems of piracy, gunrunning, drug trafficking and illegal migration.

India is now belatedly countering China's massive build-up of military infrastructure all along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control by raising two new infantry mountain divisions with 35,000 soldiers, basing Sukhois in the North-East and developing Agni-III and the still-to-tested 5,000-km Agni-V.

While Agni-III will be able to strike high-value targets in south China, the easy-to-move and deploy canisterised Agni-V will bring virtually the entire country within its strike envelope. Similarly, with a cruising speed range of 3,200-km, the Sukhois being based in Tezpur to be followed by Chabua and other airbases -- are part of the overall "dissuasive deterrence posture" against China, which has clear conventional and nuclear military superiority against India.

But even as it upgrades military infrastructure in the North-East, India is also now increasing turning its attention to the strategically-located cluster of 572 islands in the A&N archipelago, which is much closer to countries like Thailand and Indonesia than the Indian mainland.

There is even the possibility of India permanently basing a couple of Sukhoi-30MKI squadrons in the joint-services Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC).

"The geo-strategic importance of this location has been realised and projects have been approved at the highest levels. There are no specific plans at the moment to base Sukhois here but when the infrastructure comes up, we can see," said ANC chief Vice-Admiral D K Joshi.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 08 Feb 2010 07:12

Indigenous attack copter ready for first flight

New Delhi: India’s first indigenous light combat helicopter (LCH) may embark on its first flight this month.

Being built at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) facility in Bangalore, the LCH completed its first ground run on February 4.

Based on the LCH’s performance that day, its developers believe that the attack helicopter will be ready to fly soon.

“There are some minor issues to be taken care of. Its performance [during the first ground run] was more than satisfactory,” a senior HAL official said.

There have been enough indications that the LCH — to be armed with guns and different types of missiles and rockets — would be inducted in large numbers into the air force and the army by the end of 2011.

Almost 200 of them are expected to be in service with the Indian military.

The ground run, carried out for the first time on February 4, would be repeated regularly in the next few days. During these ground runs, the LCH would be fine-tuned for its first flight.

The LCH was announced in 2006 to meet the operational requirements of both the air force and the army for close air support and anti-infantry and anti-armour roles. It would also work in very high altitudes.

The twin-engine LCH is derived from the HAL’s Dhruv advance light helicopter, which is already in service. The LCH flies on the Shakti engine, which is jointly developed by HAL and Turbomeca of France.

Over the next two years, HAL officials are hopeful of obtaining the final operational clearance for the LCH and starting December 2011, it could be ready for induction.

According to the present design projections, the LCH would be heavily armed — it would carry a 20-mm cannon, four types of missiles (air-to-air, air-to-ground and anti-radiation, and anti-tank), rocket pods, grenade launchers and cluster bombs.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2010 09:01

sumshyam wrote:Indigenous attack copter ready for first flight

The ground run, carried out for the first time on February 4, would be repeated regularly in the next few days. During these ground runs, the LCH would be fine-tuned for its first flight.

I guess the bast part about testing a helicopter in this way is that it can be tethered to the ground by cables and power greater than that required to lift it off can be applied. heck - I am guessing that it can even be allowed to "lift off" the ground for a distance of 50 cm or so, so that it is technically flying although it is a ground test. I wonder if this is actually done??

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Feb 2010 09:33

I have seen a pic of a F22 being tied down and engines going full
blast for some kinda stress test on airframe

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2010 10:59

Singha wrote:I have seen a pic of a F22 being tied down and engines going full
blast for some kinda stress test on airframe

Yes but without airflow and stresses on the wings/tail a plane can't be tested, unlike a helo where the lift generation and power come from the same source.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Feb 2010 11:26

I guess they just wanted to ground test the engine with a few mins of run. usually its taken to a rig but here it was in-plane.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 08 Feb 2010 17:45

Bob V wrote:^^
could you please tell, which part of it you felt awkward ?

Under carriage. It looked very small for the huge body it has. Ground clearance is dangerously low.

I also feel that the rear wheel is in a wrong place. If they are going for a high tail rotar design, they should have gone for the conventional undercarriage like as on Mi-17's. In the current configuration, rear wheel cannot withstand heavy impacts.

Don't you feel same when you saw the pic?

I know that this is only a mockup and the original one might have it different.

Rahul M wrote:yeah, I hope they hire a beautician to do the job and an image consultant to give it a 'makeover' !

I wish!

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 08 Feb 2010 20:02

^^ There is a reason it is called a 'mockup'. We should probably reserve our criticisms for the real thing. Also I'm sure we have a few engineers in the LCH team who might have considered these points which we experts can see from a mere pic of a mockup!

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 08 Feb 2010 21:48

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... apons.html

A disturbing development....

, now the airfields upgradation are going to be stalled, Seems RM believes that he can dazzle all enemies away with his Mr.Clean image if and when they come......

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Feb 2010 22:42

that is a damn well written report. thalia shukla.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 09 Feb 2010 08:11

israel develops capabilities india pays the bill

India's first Phalcon AWACS was delivered by Israel on 25th May 2009. Here it touches down on Indian soil for the first time, at Jamnagar Air Base.

by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 9th Feb 09

For many Indian commentators, especially those on the right, Israel provides an inspiring example of how to deal with external threat. One could equally argue that notwithstanding its comfortable position as the regional hegemon, Israel and its citizens remain insecure, xenophobic and afflicted by a disturbing sense of victimhood. It’s a debate that continues, especially in that country.

What Israel unquestionably does illustrate for India --- with this country paying hundreds of millions of dollars annually for the lesson --- is a well-considered plan for building their defence industry. In becoming India’s biggest defence supplier, Israel has bared a hard-nosed strategy that our policymakers must grasp and emulate.

Since Israel does not market aircraft or ships, its defence companies have focused on the lucrative market for upgrading India’s predominantly Russian weaponry, including MiG-21 fighters; ship-borne missiles; and T-72 tanks. Their first step was to understand Russian technology, for which Israeli defence companies accepted initial contracts at cost price to build their engineers’ capabilities. With that experience gained --- at India’s cost, one must note --- Israeli systems designers progressively graduated up the complexity scale. Today, Israel’s defence industry, with capabilities honed across a generation of Russian platforms, can bid across the globe.

The opportunities for Israel are vast. Some 30,000 T-72 tanks are in service worldwide, including 2500 in India. But Israel, not India or Russia, will feed off that upgrade market. India provided Israel with the tanks, the opportunity and the money for creating that capability. Ironically, the MoD ignored India’s own defence industry; its undeniable competence could have been as easily translated into capability.

Israeli industry garnered another windfall from its offer to build the Phalcon Airborne Warning & Control System (AWACS). This airborne radar mounted on a Russian IL-76 aircraft, allows airborne controllers to monitor and control airspace for hundreds of kilometres around. No Israeli company had ever designed such an AWACS before, but India handed over US $1.1 billion (Rs 5000 crores) to Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Elta. Hundreds of Israeli designers learned on the job, building AWACS capability on Indian money. Israel will now build another three AWACS for India, several for the Israeli Air Force and export more to Chile and Singapore.

Another feeding trough is the ongoing upgrade of Indian Navy ships, especially the technologically challenging system for “net-centric operations”. This digitally interlinks the fleet’s sensors and weapons --- in the air, on the surface and underwater --- into seamless information and command networks. The two Israeli companies bidding for this strategic contract, Rafael Advanced Defence Systems and IAI, began building capabilities while fitting Indian warships with the Barak missile early this decade. With detailed knowledge of the warships’ Russian combat management system, Israeli engineers are now ready to design the net-centric operations system, the crucial nerve centre in war.

In this, as in other upgrade contracts, India’s MoD has ignored the advantages of building indigenous capability. Precision Electronics Ltd, a Delhi-based company that engineers high-tech defence electronics, joined hands with US giant, Raytheon, to bid cheaper than Rafael and IAI. It seemed as if, at last, Indian capabilities would also be built. But, mysteriously, the MoD scrapped that tender last month. There is no way to verify the industry buzz that the Israelis contrived that cancellation; the only thing known for sure is that Rafael and IAI are being investigated by the CBI for corruption in the Barak sale. But it would be safe to bet that, when fresh bidding is ordered, the Israelis will come in with cheaper prices.

The Israeli strategy is: a financial loss is acceptable, to curb Indian defence industrial capability. Each time an Indian company develops capability in a strategically vital domain, foreign companies will be shut out from that realm forever.

Strangling the competition at birth is business, not criminal activity. Israel can be expected to do that. What defies logic, though, is the MoD’s dogged refusal to nurture Indian R&D the way it has Israel’s. This is of a piece with the MoD’s approach to Russia during that country’s troubled 1990s. With Russia’s economy bankrupt and military design bureaus and manufacturing units in dire straits, India placed a string of equipment orders --- Sukhoi-30MKI fighters; Talwar class frigates; and T-90 tanks, amongst others --- providing life support to that dying establishment. China, in contrast, simply bought over a bevy of top Russian design engineers, paying them to live in China and build capabilities within China’s defence industries.

Ashok Kanodia, the MD of Precision Electronics, admires and envies the Israeli companies. Admitting that his own strategy involves bidding at cost price, Kanodia explains, “My gain will be the engineering capability and experience that is created, with the MoD paying the bill. Monetary profits are for later.” But he ruefully admits that, with the MoD apparently unconcerned with developing Indian capabilities, Israeli firms are now unstoppable.

The MoD, it would appear, has failed to understand that the essence of defence indigenisation is about building domestic design capability. All that South Block seems to have is an oft-repeated target: moving from 70% reliance on foreign equipment to 70% supply from Indian companies. But how exactly this will be done, the MoD has never pronounced. Since a target cannot substitute for a strategy, it is time that South Block implements a clear policy that would allow Indian companies --- especially in the private sector --- to build their capabilities with some assurance of business. That might be the best thing that Israel has done for India.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 09 Feb 2010 08:49

and suddenly the good Col Shukla smokes some of the finer stuff??

err Tanks - Israel had access to both captured Arab stuff which unlike us they put to good use , then came the East Europeans needing something slightly western but unable to afford the full fledged purchases - so it did not start with India

AWACS - err The Israelis had their Phalcons (707) and while there was something diff in terms of Aircraft and type of radar - thats Indias request not their wish

net centric - err again they have a small navy and only way to multiply their force was electronics - and Barak is one small part and to consider it as equivalent to net centric is silly

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 10 Feb 2010 07:07

India demands $10 million from British military firm

BY : DNA INDIA

India is asking British military firm BAE Systems to pay millions of dollars for the troubles it faced in assembling jet trainers bought from the firm.

In its demand for compensation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) cites the difficulties faced in assembling the Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJT) which were bought for the Indian Air Force (IAF). Under the original contract of 2004, 42 of these single-engine aircraft were to be assembled by HAL and 24 to be delivered directly by BAE.

Several tools and equipment supplied by the British military firm had to be “reworked”, said a HAL source. “We faced plenty of problems with the entire programme” that delayed the assembling of the aircraft, the source added. The defence PSU had to “re-tool and re-design” many of the equipment supplied by BAE and there were issues with spare parts too which created trouble for HAL.

Because of the “unwanted trouble” that was “not mandated by contractual conditions”, the organisation has now asked BAE to pay it around $10.5 million, a sources said. Negotiations are under way between the supplier’s representatives and HAL officials in Bangalore, the source said.

It is unusual for such a compensation to be sought by an Indian firm in a military contract. The contract with BAE took shape after two decades of negotiations. In a strong signal of its unhappiness with the firm, the IAF had last year issued a fresh tender for another global competition to buy a new batch of 57 advanced jet trainers. Originally, these were also to be bought from BAE.

http://idrw.org/?p=447#more-447

Finally they are sueing them ,is there any legal department attached with Indian armed forces to take dispute matters to court since India imports so many filayati stuff

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Feb 2010 07:52

SivaVijay wrote:http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... apons.html

A disturbing development.... , now the airfields upgradation are going to be stalled, Seems RM believes that he can dazzle all enemies away with his Mr.Clean image if and when they come......

Once i was at business seminar and one of the subjects was weather to keep an honest employee who makes 2200 bucks for the company or a crook on same position who makes 8k for the company and pocket 2k on the side . Almost every one agreed that honest one need to go.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Feb 2010 08:59

Prem wrote: Once i was at business seminar and one of the subjects was weather to keep an honest employee who makes 2200 bucks for the company or a crook on same position who makes 8k for the company and pocket 2k on the side . Almost every one agreed that honest one need to go.

Kali yug!!! When most people turn crooked then there will be no such seminar. Waiting for that day.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 10 Feb 2010 11:47

I would rather keep the honest guy, and hire the other fellow as an external consultant at 25% commission rate

.

Of course, I would put the honest guy to manage the other.

Management gyan onlee!!!

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 10 Feb 2010 18:49

A Perspective on Regional Air Power
http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/APerspe ... dke_100210

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Feb 2010 22:04

OT for sure.

Mis-management a-gyan.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Feb 2010 23:55

abhischekcc wrote:I would rather keep the honest guy, and hire the other fellow as an external consultant at 25% commission rate .

Of course, I would put the honest guy to manage the other.

Management gyan onlee!!!

25% is still bigger than 2k of 10k and the crook still have job and less responsibilty.
In military business when the security of the nation is at stake, we cant afford honesty which bring quarter of the capability to provide defence. If india has taken Bofor deal to logical end, we wont be in such sad shape in lacking heavy Artillery, doing so much evaluations and not making decision.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Feb 2010 00:43

Would someone PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME why India need AgustaWestland AW-101 VVIPs helicopters for executive transport of the President, Prime Minister, visiting heads of state and other leaders WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF ECUADOR travels in LOCALLY ASSEMBLED HAL's Dhruv for VVIPs???What the Fc-uk is wrong with this picture????
India Signs Up For 12 AW-101 VVIP Choppers - LIVEFIST

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2010 01:09

oh puleeez! is it okay for you when khan prez travels in VVIPs and not Indian one? whatsup dude?

btw, fyi: we do have nuke buttons.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Feb 2010 01:19

SaiK wrote:oh puleeez! is it okay for you when khan prez travels in VVIPs and not Indian one? whatsup dude?

btw, fyi: we do have nuke buttons.

oooo should I piss in my pants because you have nuke buttons???
Maybe you need to learn to read in between the lines! I am NOT DENYING the Kaid-e-Azam of India his privy transport. I would rather have him travel with HAL Dhruv than a phoren mall!!
and
"BTW, FYI-" Khan president DOES NOT travel in an Indian One, maybe HE SHOULD, then India would BUY an Indian one and not A KHAN KNOCK OFF for their president!

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 11 Feb 2010 01:24

"Because we can"... Its sad that just to not return the unspent budget the defense ministry indulges in these extravagance. I hope that money was spent to promote/speed up the indigenous projects. Also why was DC contracted to design the interiors of VIP dhruvs if they were not intended to be used in that configuration. Well i guess "if unkil travels in one why not our netas".
Having said that, one requirement posted for VVIP helicopter was a high tail boom so that the VIP car can come close to the chopper and it may offer better counter measures and avionics.
Still

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Feb 2010 01:50

understand the sadness, that I join with you all.. but dhruv is smaller in vvip capacity as is, compare to AW-101.

I'll vote for VIPs we must choose Dhruv-VIP, and for VVIP, we may perhaps ask HAL to build an equivalent.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 11 Feb 2010 02:06

^^ I agree that Hal Dhruv and AW 101 are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT beasts/category. The former has a carrying capacity of 8 in vvip, while the latter has anywhere from 10 to 30 plus amenities like gallery and a toilet amongst other things. When I mentioned what was wrong with the picture, I wasn't referring it to them in terms of size but just in terms of VVIP configuration capabilities. When it is good enough for Ecuadorian President, I'm sure it must have CERTAIN capabilities/requirements that got it to qualify as an vvip transport suitable enough for the Ecuadorian President. In the worst case scenario, if India had approached HAL to make DHRUV on the lines of AW 101's, maybe HAL could make a longer/taller version of it with the same Shakti Engine, but I guess someone in the MoD decided, otherwise.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 11 Feb 2010 02:47

Pretty good read from Rediff News

Why India's military needs an urgent update

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 11 Feb 2010 04:18

Apart from snubbing the Dhruv these babus have put IAF in a spot. Consider this, the COMM Squad (VVIP transport squadron) operates out of IAFS Palam and operates Mi-8 choppers and other fixed wings.Now most IAF chopper pilots (if not all) are qualified on 4 choppers or atleast either group of chetak/cheetah or Mi 8/17 due to their similarities. This puts COMM Squad as a (desirable coz delhi) but regular posting for all qualified pilots. When AW 101 becomes operational:
1. Each pilot posted into COMM Squad will have to be trained on type. AW being a completely different system than what IAF today operates means a lengthy and probably overseas training.
2. Will they keep a all 12 choppers in a 10+2 config at palam, that means a lot of new pilots have to be trained each year. It also means they will have conversion training whenever they are posted out to their original types. Makes no sense.
3.Will they have a separate pool of pilots for COMM squad who are never posted out and spend their full careers in VVIP flying? I think most people who join IAF for flying instead of commercial airlines will not appreciate being limo drivers and never see and fly in siachen,thoise,tawang, carnic..the real chopper flying.
4.Of course, all this applies to the ground staff who will operate the AWs.
5.12, atleast 10 active choppers in delhi means capacity to transport upto 100 VIPs ..where do such number travel together. If 1or 2 out 10 are utilized at a given point and others are just parked there..well what a waste of resources.
6.Will they be spread over all commands?
I hope the babus have ready answers to these questions, but again whos there to ask.
Do you think they ever listen to the IAF about its requirements. First BBJ now AW. What the FFFK

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 11 Feb 2010 05:32

Natt wrote: .
3.Will they have a separate pool of pilots for COMM squad who are never posted out and spend their full careers in VVIP flying? I think most people who join IAF for flying instead of commercial airlines will not appreciate being limo drivers and never see and fly in siachen,thoise,tawang, carnic..the real chopper flying.
4.Of course, all this applies to the ground staff who will operate the AWs.

Comm Squadron Posting is a prestige posting - so only the best pilots - with good number of operational hours and flying record and with ratings etc get posted there. Its not necessary to have a specialised aircrew for the type .

There is also a precedent Comm Squadron is the only unit that operates the Boeing 737 and the Embraer, yet the pilots who fly the aircraft are your regular joes who cut their teeth on An-32s and Il-76s. They get posted there after several operational stints with other units. I would expect the posting policy would be the same for AW 101s. No need to have a separate pool of pilots or ground crew.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Feb 2010 07:21

Speaking of the Communications Squadron, CCS has approved a deal for the IAF to purchase 12 Agusta Westland AW 101 helicopters at INR 37,260 Million for VVIP use:

VVIP helicopter deal finally cleared

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Feb 2010 07:41

Folks - the Agusta-Westland has facilities for a galley and toilet and can fly for something like 6 hours I think. The Dhruv was never designed to meet those requirements.

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 11 Feb 2010 07:50

arun wrote:Speaking of the Communications Squadron, CCS has approved a deal for the IAF to purchase 12 Agusta Westland AW 101 helicopters at INR 37,260 Million for VVIP use:

VVIP helicopter deal finally cleared

Exactly, thats the news which started this conversation.

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 11 Feb 2010 07:56

shiv wrote:Folks - the Agusta-Westland has facilities for a galley and toilet and can fly for something like 6 hours I think. The Dhruv was never designed to meet those requirements.

The VIP layout designed by DC does have a toilet though. Dhruv at cruising speed can go for about 3.5 hours whereas AW 101 doesnt go more than 5 hours at the most.

Natt · Post by **Natt** » 11 Feb 2010 08:06

Jagan wrote:
Natt wrote: .
3.Will they have a separate pool of pilots for COMM squad who are never posted out and spend their full careers in VVIP flying? I think most people who join IAF for flying instead of commercial airlines will not appreciate being limo drivers and never see and fly in siachen,thoise,tawang, carnic..the real chopper flying.
4.Of course, all this applies to the ground staff who will operate the AWs.
Comm Squadron Posting is a prestige posting - so only the best pilots - with good number of operational hours and flying record and with ratings etc get posted there. Its not necessary to have a specialised aircrew for the type .

There is also a precedent Comm Squadron is the only unit that operates the Boeing 737 and the Embraer, yet the pilots who fly the aircraft are your regular joes who cut their teeth on An-32s and Il-76s. They get posted there after several operational stints with other units. I would expect the posting policy would be the same for AW 101s. No need to have a separate pool of pilots or ground crew.

I know, and I agree, but talking about choppers, you do agree that flying and maintaining a squadron of Mi8 or dhruv for that matter is easier, cheaper, logical than having just 12 choppers of a completely different type in an inventory of approx 330 choppers with many more dhruv in the pipeline. ?
and the COMM Squad isnt really a podium for the best pilots.