Indian Military Aviation

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chetak
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2010 20:52

merlin wrote:
chetak wrote:We must be idiots to put all our eggs in the same basket even after we learned a fairly harsh lesson.


But isn't that precisely what MMS wants - to put all our eggs in one basket?


Yes sir.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby arun » 19 Feb 2010 15:47

X Posted. Just a reiteration of what was already disclosed namely that the Indian Navy would be increasing its MiG 29K / KUB fleet from 16 (4 delivered, 12 on order) to 45 by ordering 29 more .

Defence Minister A.K.Anthony:

India to order 29 more combat jets for navy
19 Feb 2010 ………………….

“As per the navy's requirements we will be buying 29 additional fighter aircraft from Russia," Antony told reporters after formally inducting the navy's first four MiG-29Ks.

He, however, did not lay down a timeframe for signing the fresh contract and the delivery of the additional jets…………………..

ET

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chiragAS » 19 Feb 2010 17:03

Hmm.. Gone are the days when we had only 9 pages. now we are going in 2 digits. very difficult to read all and then comment. so applogies.

The ranting by an Indian on an Indian military aviation thread is his birth right. People who dont like
can please go to teen sites. they are 400% without ahm.. any political overtones.

Suddenly there is huge surge in number of american fanboys here. guess Boeing guys think marketing on BR
is as important as greasing up MOD guys. well good luck to them.

It is very important to remind the new kids the history, cause they are getting blinded by sexy looking birds being marketed.
These fanboys have no clue of what a CISMOA or EULA is really is.
they dont understand the difference between Object codes and source codes.
I can give u all the object codes to you and still hold u by your balls. i can write an underlying function code in such a way that if i want i can make these birds fall from air for no reason. or can continously capture gps data and transmit to nearby communication satellite without your knowledge. may be once in an hour or so.
or can write a code to tranfer weapon data to threat library (aka black shahine missile) and then on basis of CISMOA and EULA
they have offcial right to take the threat librarry. so they are always the winner.

Weapons specially costly ones are an instrument of foregin policy. the day we buy teens that is the end of the freedom.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 19 Feb 2010 18:03

................................
It is very important to remind the new kids the history, cause they are getting blinded by sexy looking birds being marketed.
These fanboys have no clue of what a CISMOA or EULA is really is.
they dont understand the difference between Object codes and source codes.
I can give u all the object codes to you and still hold u by your balls. i can write an underlying function code in such a way that if i want i can make these birds fall from air for no reason. or can continously capture gps data and transmit to nearby communication satellite without your knowledge. may be once in an hour or so.
...............................


True.

I do not see any nation that is an exception out there.

Until India comes up with equally good products and the region has threats India will have to live with being a fanboy of someone.

The problem has been and still is India. Seems like the MMRCA effort is an attempt to overcome some or all of these problems. Till then we have to live with either the fear that GPS data will be transmitted, planes falling out of the sky ( :roll: , never figured that one out so far) or the cost of a FGFA/ship part made in some other nation will triple for no rhyme or reason.

That "fear" will exist till an alternative is found. And, there is no alternative in sight so far.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gagan » 19 Feb 2010 18:06

Found this video on youtube about the various air maneuvers of the Su-30 MKI. Well explained with graphics also. (The video says Su-37 but the plane shown is a triplane like the MKI)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uTfZLQdkHo&feature=related

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Austin » 19 Feb 2010 18:13

Su-37 was the first plane to validate the triplane and TVC concept which was later implemented on MKI.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 19 Feb 2010 19:07

India speeds up $11 bln fighter jets purchase
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE6 ... arketsNews

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 20 Feb 2010 07:33

Didn't see this news being reported..if it was, then sorry for re-posting. thank goodness the pilot ejected safely.

IAF MiG-21 crashes in West Bengal, pilot safe
2010-02-19 17:30:00
Last Updated: 2010-02-19 17:33:27

New Delhi: An Indian Air Force MiG-21 combat jet crashed soon after take-off from Bagdora in West Bengal on Friday but the pilot ejected to safety, an IAF spokesman said.

'The aircraft crashed around 3 p.m. soon after take-off and the pilot, Squadron Leader Rahul Tiwari, ejected safely,' the spokesman added.

'The pilot was picked up by an SAR (search and rescue) helicopter and has been taken to hospital,' the spokesman said.

This is the second crash of an IAF fighter in three days. A MiG-27 had crashed near the Hashimara air base, also in West Bengal, on Tuesday.


IAF MiG-21 crashes in West Bengal

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby VinodTK » 20 Feb 2010 08:01


Singha
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 20 Feb 2010 08:25

Rus has abandoned the tri-control concept in later planes like Su35BM and Pakfa.
I think the MKI/MKM is the first and last of that noble breed.

they say with new FCS and better TVC, the benefits of the canard can be obtained without
the complexity, rcs and weight penalty

Typhoon TVC might be developed but wont get deployed due to lack of money, same
for rafale. it may be tough in them for 3D tvc due to closely spaced engines restricting
the side to side movement, so F22 style 2D up-and-down tvc is all they can get.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Gagan » 20 Feb 2010 14:48

Would the LREX on the PAK-FA technically not be considered a triplane version? I know it wouldn't but doesn't it provide similar capabilities, but is even better in that it helps the air intakes regulate air flow.

Gurus am I correct here?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby mukul_chou » 20 Feb 2010 17:39

Gagan wrote:Found this video on youtube about the various air maneuvers of the Su-30 MKI. Well explained with graphics also. (The video says Su-37 but the plane shown is a triplane like the MKI)



Probably no single seater MKI was ever built... this is a single seater.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby arun » 21 Feb 2010 09:00

PTI via Zee News reports that while the short take off component of the Shore-based Test Facility (SBTF) at INS Hansa at Dabolim for the MiG 29K of the Indian Navy will be “ready soon as the Goa Shipyard Limited will complete it” the arrested landing component is “delayed”:

MiG 29K pilots should wait till 2012 for arrested landing training

TOI has a bit more on the SBTF:

Navy to begin expansion at Dabolim

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chetak » 21 Feb 2010 09:46

Craig Alpert wrote:
:((
:?: is then why did India Invite Boeing and Lockeed Martin for the MMRCA tenders??? It's not as if the "massa" was dying to sell you the weapons, it was INVITED!!! The same goes wit the Nuke Deal and the Weapons Locating Radar and everything else!!!


:wink: :wink:

To be absolutely fair, one cannot entirely rule out the fine and cheesy hand of the french in planting such an article, no?

All is maya and un elected politicians onlee!!

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/feb/ ... -deals.htm


US dictating India's big defence deals?
February 20, 2010 20:02 IST

Is the government under pressure from the United States to cancel fat defence orders to the European companies and go for purchases from the American firms?

The question is being raised after Union Defence Minister A K Antony recently struck down a $1.6 billion order bagged by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company for supply of the Airbus transport planes to the Indian Air Force.

This was yet another order legitimately won by an European defence company last year with IAF selecting the multi-role tanker transporter Airbus A330 after four years of labour to pick up the best suiting its needs, but arbitrarily cancelled by Antony without giving any reason.

Last year, a concluded deal for 197 helicopters from Eurocopter, a French-German conglomeration, was similarly cancelled by the defence ministry, which gave a very dodgy financial argument to explain why Boeing's P81 Poseidon reconnaissance aircraft was preferred over Airbus in another deal.

Another decision to award a large tender for the secured defence communication to Motorola, an American firm, over EADS, is also mired in red tape and secrecy, with no explanation coming forward from the defence ministry for dumping the winner to oblige an American firm.
.................
France President Nicholas Sarkozy led a sustained and aggressive diplomatic campaign over the past couple of years to regain and revive the strategic relationship between Europe and India. He must be also at a loss to understand this phenomena.

Analysts point out that unlike the United States, the European firms have always agreed for full transfer of technology of the latest weaponry, and that too, with no strings attached and hence denial of opportunity to them is astounding.

Is it all because the United States helped India get into the nuclear nations' family after over two decades of isolation that the same India, that would not buy a pin from the US a decade ago if it had any sort of military application, is bending backwards to have first preference for the American supplies.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nrshah » 21 Feb 2010 19:05

Will the fate of VVIP helicopter same as helicopter tender?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/si ... -vvip.html

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shukla » 21 Feb 2010 19:53


Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Feb 2010 09:21

Dunno if this was posted before:

http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-46203920100216

Apart from the news on the planned Mirage 2000 upgrade for INR 10000 cr :shock: and the induction of Micas for the same, there is news that MBDA will be involved in upgrading the Jaguar. The Magics will be replaced by the ASRAAM. This apart from the Maitri JV of course.

The M2k upgrade will be deeper than the MiG-29 one according to one source! What the devil are they stuffing it with? RBE-2 AESA? AL-31s?
"The scope of Mirage upgrade will be much larger than the MiG-29 one...it will be more high-end. It will cost half of the fighter's worth. After the upgrade, the Mirages will serve us for another 15-20 years,'' said another officer.

[url]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 604361.cms[/url]

CM.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Austin » 23 Feb 2010 09:34

Cain Marko wrote:The M2k upgrade will be deeper than the MiG-29 one according to one source! What the devil are they stuffing it with? RBE-2 AESA? AL-31s?[/url]

CM.


Same stuff as discussed before forms part of M2K upgrade , but French being more generous and big hearted the wealth is equally distributed among the faithful hence it costs more :wink:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Feb 2010 09:40

Austin wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:The M2k upgrade will be deeper than the MiG-29 one according to one source! What the devil are they stuffing it with? RBE-2 AESA? AL-31s?[/url]

CM.


Same stuff as discussed before forms part of M2K upgrade , but French being more generous and big hearted the wealth is equally distributed among the faithful hence it costs more :wink:
+

Atrocious! Hope the buggers get caught on this - to paraphrase Marko Ramius, "a bofors every now and then is a good thing!"

CM.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Ravishankar » 23 Feb 2010 14:34

India, China to undertake joint air exercise in 2012: IAF chief

http://sify.com/news/india-china-to-und ... gbcff.html

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nachiket » 23 Feb 2010 14:50

Cain Marko wrote:Atrocious! Hope the buggers get caught on this - to paraphrase Marko Ramius, "a bofors every now and then is a good thing!"

CM.


OT, but what was the original quote? I don't recall Ramius saying anything similar in the book or the film.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sumshyam » 23 Feb 2010 15:13

India, France to finalise upgrade of Mirage jets in Rs 10,000 cr project

NEW DELHI: India and France are now finally close to inking the around Rs 10,000 crore project to upgrade the Mirage-2000 fighter jets in the IAF combat fleet after protracted negotiations.

The first four to six IAF Mirages will be upgraded in France, while the rest 50 will equipped with new avionics, weapon and sensor suites to enhance their combat edge by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in India under transfer of technology in the project.

"It (the project finalisation) should happen shortly,'' IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik told TOI on Monday. This will be the second such big programme with the upgrade of 63 MiG-29s already underway under a $964 million contract inked with Russia in March 2008.

It will also be the second big defence deal to be inked with France after the ongoing Rs 18,798 crore project to construct six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks, which incidentally is running two years behind schedule amid huge cost escalation.

"The scope of Mirage upgrade will be much larger than the MiG-29 one...it will be more high-end. It will cost half of the fighter's worth. After the upgrade, the Mirages will serve us for another 15-20 years,'' said another officer.

The multi-role fighters will be `souped-up' with new avionics, radars, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites, jam-proof communication with data links, weapon delivery and precision-targeting systems, including the all-weather, fire-and-forget MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems.

"A French team will be coming again in early-March to finalise the details. The CNC (contract negotiation committee) should conclude in another two months. The Cabinet Committee on Security's approval will then be sought,'' he added.

The inking of the deal could be well be timed with French President Nicolas Sarkozy's proposed visit to India later in the year. The project has been hanging fire for the last few years because the package offered by French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer), Thales (weapons systems integrator) and MBDA (missile supplier) was around 30% higher than what India was ready to pay.

Having first inducted 40 Mirages in the mid-1980s, India had procured over 20 more in later years. With the Mirages successfully conducting `targeted bombings' during the 1999 Kargil conflict, IAF had some years ago even pitched for the advanced Mirage-2000-Vs for its gigantic $10.4-billion project for 126 new medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).

But even as France shut down its Mirage assembly line, the defence ministry also told IAF to go in for `a global tender' for the MMRCA project. Now, the French Rafale is competing with American F/A-18 `Super Hornet' (Boeing) and F-16 `Falcon' (Lockheed Martin), Russian MiG-35 (United Aircraft Corporation), Swedish Gripen (Saab) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies) in the hotly-contested MMRCA race.

Faced with a depleting number of fighter squadrons (each has 16 to 18 jets), down to just 32 from a `sanctioned strength' of 39.5, IAF is going for a mix of upgrades and new inductions like Sukhoi-30MKIs to maintain its combat readiness.


for a long time I heard the buzz that Israel is offering a better deal in terms of money..why then finance ministry allow it this time....isn't cheapest is the policy.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rakall » 23 Feb 2010 15:44

Just seen the twin seat jags preparing for VayuShakthi demo.. Atleast the two twin-seat jags in the foreview have a "single" pilot in the cockpit.. :!:

lack of pilots :?:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby K_Rohit » 23 Feb 2010 15:55

rakall wrote:Just seen the twin seat jags preparing for VayuShakthi demo.. Atleast the two twin-seat jags in the foreview have a "single" pilot in the cockpit.. :!:

lack of pilots :?:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 714320.JPG

This must be an old photo. The 27s have been grounded and wont be part of Vayushakti. Shame that the premier CAS aircraft aint part of a firepower demo! :eek: :eek:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Juggi G » 23 Feb 2010 16:35


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Pratik_S » 23 Feb 2010 16:49

sumshyam wrote:for a long time I heard the buzz that Israel is offering a better deal in terms of money..why then finance ministry allow it this time....isn't cheapest is the policy.


The upgrade of the M2000 is quite extensive and I think it justifies the cost. Dassult has closed down the its Mirage lines for a long time it will certainly cost them more to upgrade now. Considering the MiG-29s upgrade which is around a billion and technologically is not as extensive as this one. Israelis would have taken more time to finish the program so I think that must have cost them this deal.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Feb 2010 17:53

Also wouldnt the M-2000's be the only aircraft with NATO radar for us, i.e the ones which the Paki F-16 threat library is not updated with?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kersi D » 23 Feb 2010 22:51

K_Rohit wrote:
rakall wrote:Just seen the twin seat jags preparing for VayuShakthi demo.. Atleast the two twin-seat jags in the foreview have a "single" pilot in the cockpit.. :!:

lack of pilots :?:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 714320.JPG

This must be an old photo. The 27s have been grounded and wont be part of Vayushakti. Shame that the premier CAS aircraft aint part of a firepower demo! :eek: :eek:


Any idea from whee (which airfield) is this MiG 27 taking off ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby neeraj » 23 Feb 2010 23:08

Mig 27's are part of Vayushakti 2010

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/ex ... heyre.html

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Singha » 24 Feb 2010 13:08

how does the AN32 carry these bombs?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 2+BOMB.jpg

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sharma.abhinav » 24 Feb 2010 13:39

A noob question to all gurus. What are the chances of DRDO/ADA developing MCA in collaboration with French Dassault, as they don't seem to have a 5th gen fighter in plan or development. Besides we are already collaborating with them for Kaveri. :?:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shukla » 24 Feb 2010 17:04


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby NRao » 25 Feb 2010 00:43

sharma.abhinav wrote:A noob question to all gurus. What are the chances of DRDO/ADA developing MCA in collaboration with French Dassault, as they don't seem to have a 5th gen fighter in plan or development. Besides we are already collaborating with them for Kaveri.


the same French who declined to collaborate on the Typhoon/EF (to come up with the Rafale)?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 25 Feb 2010 01:00

NRao wrote:the same French who declined to collaborate on the Typhoon/EF (to come up with the Rafale)?


and the same French who pulled out of the LCA project when they did not have a say on which type of FCS it would have.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Craig Alpert » 25 Feb 2010 01:54

Singha wrote:how does the AN32 carry these bombs?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 2+BOMB.jpg

Pajji galla nal maafi chahidaa, par tussi, walked rite into this one! Two AF personnel in the back, opened the bay doors and started throwing these 500lbs bombs one after the other! :lol:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby KrishG » 25 Feb 2010 18:40

Antonov to start Indian An-32 upgrade during March

The project involves fitting the aircraft with up-to-date equipment, including an "air collision avoidance system, ground proximity warning system, satellite navigation, distance measuring equipment, upgraded radio altimeter, new radar with multifunctional indicators, new oxygen system and improvements to the crew seats," the company official says.

Indian pilots will test the upgraded An-32s, the source adds, with the entire modernisation programme to take about five years to complete.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Cain Marko » 26 Feb 2010 02:20

With the recent MiG-27 crash, the chances for the AL-31 upgrade might just go up. Btw, anybody know how many 27s the IAF still has and when they are due to retire (2020?).

@ Natchiket,

Re. Ramius - substitute bofors with revolution and it might ring a bell. :wink:

CM

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kapil » 26 Feb 2010 07:56

The Mig-29K Induction galleries are up.
We need to caption and resort them but heck,take a look anyways...
Will try to sort things soon.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... kPanthers/


Kapil

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shukla » 26 Feb 2010 07:58

Lockheed to Deliver Hercules In Dec, Expects More Tenders

He said the company was preparing for the delivery of the C-130J to the Indian Air Force and was ready to deliver the first aircraft in December this year, three months ahead of their planned induction in the first quarter of 2011.


Thats one of the plus side of ordering from uncle Sam I guess.. At least orders guaranteed 'on time' (if not before time)..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby merlin » 26 Feb 2010 09:46

shukla wrote:Lockheed to Deliver Hercules In Dec, Expects More Tenders

He said the company was preparing for the delivery of the C-130J to the Indian Air Force and was ready to deliver the first aircraft in December this year, three months ahead of their planned induction in the first quarter of 2011.


Thats one of the plus side of ordering from uncle Sam I guess.. At least orders guaranteed 'on time' (if not before time)..


Timing, quality, support - those are not really issues when dealing with unkil stuff. Sanctions, EUAs and other "political" stuff is.


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