Indian Military Aviation

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Rahul M
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

precisely, that's why I wrote "from there to something actually tactically useful". while AAR can solve some of the problems, the point about weapons and maintenance stays.

another tidbit, just found on youtube that RSAF (s'pore) landed an E-2 on a road during a recent exercise.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Jagan »

Yeah, the highways are at best a distraction - both for us and for them. We have to think about plonking a bomb every half a mile along the motorway and the paf had to worry about defending them!. In the end the utiility might be in helping recovery efforts - helping that stray aircraft coming back from sorties, low on fuel etc ..
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

or we can send PWD that way to eff up their road network ! :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Surya »

We do not have to plonk a bomb on every mile :)
just the straight stretches with possible points for support vehicles plus nearest exits
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Jagan »

Surya wrote:We do not have to plonk a bomb on every mile :)
just the straight stretches with possible points for support vehicles plus nearest exits
Ofcourse I meant the straight stretches onleeee. Not the entire goddam NH1 or whatever they have over there.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Surya »

We are on BRF expect specifics :mrgreen: even from senior senior senior adminullahs. Else other mujahids would be calculating tonnage required for every mile and claim PAF has won onleee :mrgreen:

(I amsure there is going to lots of notes against my userid after this )
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

While making the assumption about the PAF capability to sustain operations from dispersed sites and comapring the same with the Swedes, we need to understand that Swedish system was from 'ground-up' designed for such operations. This is what fas.org says about this concept (http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avgrpn.html):
Swedish defense plans include a concept known as "BAS 90", which envisions dispersal of aircraft in groups of four to six to "road bases" defined around specially reinforced lengths of highway with associated dispersal areas. This scheme dictates the Gripen's short-field capabilities. The Gripen can take off and land in less than 600 meters (2,000 feet).

Once deployed to a road base, the Gripens are serviced by a team of six, including one highly trained specialist and five minimally trained conscripts. A service team can refuel and rearm a Gripen in ten minutes. The Gripen features an auxiliary power unit (APU) to reduce its dependence on ground systems, and the fighter's onboard digital systems include "built-in self-test" capabilities that can download diagnostic data to a tech's laptop computer. Service doors to critical systems are at head level or lower, allowing easy access by technicians. Flygvapnet experience shows that the Gripen requires 40% less maintenance work-hours and only half the fuel of the Viggen
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Even if pak has the ability to disperse its aircrafts on motorways in times of emergency, it comes to naught in the event of an actual war since the logistics and infrastructure nodes are will be the targets for the second wave of attacks, be it missiles or fighters...
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

Iph thij ij naat the Indian Military Aviation dhaaga pleej point me to the shame .. :oops:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Samay »

pandyan wrote:Shri PMji initiated a 5 year plan to construct a series of golden surrenderalaterals in the border states complete with goats. Roads will be visible onlee during war times
Image
pandyan ji ,ju have taken my words,I resisted becoause this is milavi thread .
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Juggi G »

India Inks Mirage Deal, France says No to Pak
The Indian Express
Image
At $2.2 billion, the Cost of the Upgrade is Considered to be on the Higher Side, Given that Several Countries are Offering New Fighters for that Price. :shock: :x :evil:
However, the French argue that the upgrade, which will give the aircraft new radar systems, a new weapon suite, missiles, electronic warfare system and modern electronic warfare, will convert the combat-proven aircraft into next-generation fighters.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Dmurphy »

Juggi G wrote:At $2.2 billion, the Cost of the Upgrade is Considered to be on the Higher Side, Given that Several Countries are Offering New Fighters for that Price.
We should look a little deeper into it for added clauses like ToT. Or have we reimbursed for the lost Paki upgrade deal?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Viv S »

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that we're looking to import a basic trainer. I wish this got as much attention as our MCA/PAKFA/FGFA ambitions.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kartik »

Dmurphy wrote:
Juggi G wrote:At $2.2 billion, the Cost of the Upgrade is Considered to be on the Higher Side, Given that Several Countries are Offering New Fighters for that Price.
We should look a little deeper into it for added clauses like ToT. Or have we reimbursed for the lost Paki upgrade deal?
International contracts don't work on the basis of "reimbursement" for other deals. Pakistan simply doesn't have the funds right now to get the French avionics for its JF-17s and the IAF deal includes weapons which don't come cheap for a 51 strong aircraft fleet.

And the talk of buying brand new fighters for that price is nonsense. you cannot buy 51 of ANY Mirage-2000-5 equivalent fighter for $2.2 billion along with weapons. Just take a look at Romania purchasing 24 second hand USAF F-16 Block 25 fighters (simply refurbished, not upgraded) alongwith support/training/spares/weapons for $1.2 billion. Or even Thailand's recent deal with LM for upgrading 6 of their F-16Bs which cost them around $185 million which works out to around $30 million and it doesn't include weapons.

Considering how deep this upgrade is, these Mirages will be able to take on even PAF's newest acquisitions, the F-16 Block 50s. the IAF has a pool of trained and experienced Mirage pilots, who can easily exploit this fighter for another 15 years at least.

But this decision makes me wonder why on earth the MoD didn't take up Qatar on its offer for its 12 Mirage-2000-5s. They had plenty of life on them and Qatar had a large stockpile of MICAs that it was willing to sell alongwith the fighters for $650 million..if the MoD had made a decent offer of at least $500 million or so, I'm sure Qatar would've sold us those fighters allowing the IAF to raise another Mirage-2000-5 squadron.

I for one think that its a very good decision to keep these great fighters operational for another 15 years after getting them upto date.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

H&D aside its a lot cheaper to import basic trainer than a fighter like Tejas. if resources are limited, its better to do the more costly and sanction prone stuff first.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Singha wrote:H&D aside its a lot cheaper to import basic trainer than a fighter like Tejas. if resources are limited, its better to do the more costly and sanction prone stuff first.
True.. But when we already have experience in designing and manufacturing both Basic and intermediate trainers, then should we not go ahead with them, instead of importing something similar..
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Viv S »

Singha wrote:H&D aside its a lot cheaper to import basic trainer than a fighter like Tejas. if resources are limited, its better to do the more costly and sanction prone stuff first.
Well I'm no expert but I would say, the resources required to develop a basic trainer would be peanuts relative to a fourth/fifth generation fighter development program.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

Kartik wrote:....<SNIP>But this decision makes me wonder why on earth the MoD didn't take up Qatar on its offer for its 12 Mirage-2000-5s. They had plenty of life on them and Qatar had a large stockpile of MICAs that it was willing to sell alongwith the fighters for $650 million..if the MoD had made a decent offer of at least $500 million or so, I'm sure Qatar would've sold us those fighters allowing the IAF to raise another Mirage-2000-5 squadron....<SNIP>
Kartik,internet tells me that UAE operates Mirage-2000-9 in substantial numbers (32-20 single seatS+12 trainers) and further 30 older Mirage-2000, which were to be upraded to -9 standard? Did that upgrade happen? And is not UAE in market to sell these and induct Rafael? Have these a/c been oferred to India? Final question - internet says that UAE Mirage -2000-9 were optimized for Strike role? Any gyaan on this?Thanx.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Andy sir, do you have anymore articles on the IAF with you that you can post???
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Dmurphy »

Kartik wrote:International contracts don't work on the basis of "reimbursement" for other deals.
They obviously won't invoice it in the final bill. They'll just quote a higher price for the purchases, thats it. And such things do happen, if not in the exact same way. Of course, the price stands justified if the rest of your post is true.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Ankit Desai »

India inks Mirage deal, France says no to Pak
India last week finalised a $2.2 billion deal with France to upgrade its fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters
The final price negotiations were held even as reports from Paris, carried by French newspapers and agencies, said that its plans to sell $1.6 billion worth of military equipment for Pakistan’s JF 17 fighters had been put on hold.

The reports said that the contract was suspended under Indian pressure and doubts over Pakistan’s ability to pay for the systems.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Ankit Desai »

India to open sixth air base in Rajasthan, 100 km from Pakistan
The Indian Air Force (IAF) will open a new air base in Rajasthan Tuesday to bridge the “strategic air gap” between three of its forward bases in the state. The new base, the sixth in the state, is nearly 100 km from the international border with Pakistan.
It will serve fighter aircraft and helicopters. As of now, no squadron has been based at Phalodi," the officer said. Sources, however, maintained that the frontline Sukhoi Su-30MKI combat jets could be deployed at Phalodi.
100 km from Pakistan ! Too close isn't it !?


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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sunilpatel »

Ankit Desai wrote:India inks Mirage deal, France says no to Pak
The reports said that the contract was suspended under Indian pressure and doubts over Pakistan’s ability to pay for the systems.
Ankit
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

having such bases really close to border helps to curb incursions by manned and unmanned ac in peacetime and during buildup phase on land.

during wartime, they would likely be used only to recover a/c low on fuel/damaged.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by karan_mc »

and i thought i had it for the day :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Egyptian diplomat offers to send Chinese made K-8 Karakorum to india for training IAF pilots
The Indian Air Force’s crisis in training its pilots saw a farcical twist recently when an Egyptian diplomat posted in India helpfully offered Cairo’s assistance. The Egyptian Air Force, he suggested to a senior IAF officer, could send a training team to Hyderabad, along with several of its trainer aircraft, the K-8 Karakorum. Was the Egyptian aware that the Karakorum trainer has been jointly developed by Pakistan and China? Nobody is certain but, since the offer was not followed up in writing, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was spared the embarrassment of having to reply.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

http://idrw.org/?p=1179#more-1179
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sumshyam »

Smallest & Lightest UAV by an Indian Firm
The UAV has vertical takeoff and landing capabilities. It can carry intelligence equipment on board and is very useful in disaster management and aerial photography. It can be programmed to take of on a preplanned mission and land back at the same location after completing it.

It is made of carbon fiber composites and weighs only 1.5 kg. It has a range of one km and is powered by Li-Pc batteries. In the first US-Asian Demonstration and Assessment of Micro Aerial and Unmanned Ground Vehicle Technology the UAV won the prize for the best entry amongst 16 other entries.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

Singha wrote:having such bases really close to border helps to curb incursions by manned and unmanned ac in peacetime and during buildup phase on land.

during wartime, they would likely be used only to recover a/c low on fuel/damaged.

There was a great story in the latest Vayu about the same unit in Jamnagar that sent a detachment to Jaisalmer for the Longewala battle in 1971. The Bhuj airfield was unused at that time and what the CO did was to ask his pilots to do pretend take offs and landings in Bhuj in the daytime, and he had runway lights set up at night. He succesfully fooled the Pakis into trying to bomb an unused airfield and trapped them. It was this unit that scored a MiG 21 kill of an F 104.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rajaneethan »

I don't think the picture in the link, is the actual uav, if it weighs 1.5kg, you cannot hold it like that.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Dmurphy »

Ankit Desai wrote:100 km from Pakistan ! Too close isn't it !?
Per <wikimapia>, its not that close either
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

Ankit Desai wrote: 100 km from Pakistan ! Too close isn't it !?
Ankit
Just check how close the Pathankot AFB is close to the international border. :P
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kakarat »

Dmurphy wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote:100 km from Pakistan ! Too close isn't it !?
Per <wikimapia>, its not that close either
I thought it was this one
http://www.ourairports.com/airports/VA2A/
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by arun »

karan_mc wrote:and i thought i had it for the day :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Egyptian diplomat offers to send Chinese made K-8 Karakorum to india for training IAF pilots
......................

:rotfl: :rotfl:

http://idrw.org/?p=1179#more-1179
:wink: Why not directly give credit to where it is due namely to Business Standard rather than the subterfuge(?) of doing so indirectly via IDRW ?:


Scrabbling for solutions
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Pratyush »

Singha wrote:having such bases really close to border helps to curb incursions by manned and unmanned ac in peacetime and during buildup phase on land.

during wartime, they would likely be used only to recover a/c low on fuel/damaged.
GD how far is the new AFB from RYK. :twisted:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by atreya »

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12679
The reports said that the contract was suspended under Indian pressure and doubts over Pakistan’s ability to pay for the systems.
:rotfl:
Something to give back to TFTAs and Amir Khan!! Wonder what the latter has to say about THIS! :D
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kersi D »

Pratyush wrote:
Singha wrote:having such bases really close to border helps to curb incursions by manned and unmanned ac in peacetime and during buildup phase on land.

during wartime, they would likely be used only to recover a/c low on fuel/damaged.
GD how far is the new AFB from RYK. :twisted:
Pardon my ignorance, What is RYK ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

rahim yar khan. a town on the indus in central pakistan.

in the old (non nukular) days of unrestricted depth war, RYK was expected to be the point where
two giant armoured pincers from north and south would meet on the Indus and effectively cut
all the N-S indus valley highway and railway network. an attack by two strike corps as the outer prongs and regular slower (rapid) corps as the inner prongs....kind of the like the double envelopments by the wehrmacht "army group center" from polish border ending at Smolensk and from Smolensk to Moscow.

parachute brigade to threaten enemy strongpoints from rear as the armour prongs advance.

Guderian and Von Kleist in charge :twisted:
Last edited by Singha on 06 Apr 2010 19:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

also famous as the location of a (future) tea party for BRFites ! :twisted:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kersi D »

rohitvats wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote: 100 km from Pakistan ! Too close isn't it !?
Ankit
Just check how close the Pathankot AFB is close to the international border. :P
Amritsar AFB is probably the closest to the pak border

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

Kersi D wrote: Pardon my ignorance, What is RYK ?

K
Rahim Yar Khan - the holy grail of Sunderji Plan to cut TSPA into two....

check this link to its location astride the Karachi-Hyderabad-Lahore road link: http://maps.google.co.in/maps?hl=en&q=r ... a=N&tab=wl
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