Indian Military Aviation

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 10 Jul 2010 03:43

India has renovated runways and hangars at Ayni, but the Indian government has never publicly stated what its longer-term intentions were for the base. Reports in the Indian press suggested that India hoped to base a squadron of MiG-29 fighter jets there, in an effort to bolster its political clout in Central Asia, and to create a counterweight to Pakistani influence in Afghanistan.

Analysts of India's military suggest those expectations may have been too ambitious. When the base renovations started in 2004, India did not have a clear plan as to how it would eventually utilize the facility, said one source close to the Indian armed forces, whose employer does not allow him to speak on the record. "The point, sadly, remains the same: While the Tajik government has kept doors open, at least in a limited sense, the government here [in India] hasn't quite gotten its act together about precisely what or how to leverage the opportunity," he said.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Jul 2010 03:57

^^It is also possible that the IAF is waiting for its squadron strength to go up before basing one of them outside India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jul 2010 09:22

Russi involvement in saras will make sure of two things
- strong structurally with stol and rough field ability in undercarriage
- able to operate in bitterly cold weather

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2010 09:58

ManjaM wrote:Couple of questions -

1. How many NAL Hansa have been sold? does anyone have details on its performance.

News from 2008
http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... sa/327159/

So far NAL has sold 12 aircraft to various agencies including two to the Chennai Flying Club.

At least one more has been delivered to the Chandigarh Flying club during the Hyderabad Air show in 2009 (or was it 2010?)

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jul 2010 13:15

shiv wrote:
ManjaM wrote:Couple of questions -

1. How many NAL Hansa have been sold? does anyone have details on its performance.
News from 2008
http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... sa/327159/
So far NAL has sold 12 aircraft to various agencies including two to the Chennai Flying Club.
At least one more has been delivered to the Chandigarh Flying club during the Hyderabad Air show in 2009 (or was it 2010?)

Cool, that's a lot of sales.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Jul 2010 19:13

Guys what is the status of MTA. Has the prototypee been rolled out. As the in servie date is supposed to be 2015. Looking at the spes of the MTA. One finds it firmly in the C 130 catogery.

Reason I ask is google is not having any updates on the project.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 11 Jul 2010 06:11

The Story Of India's MiG-27 Upgrade
Shiv Aroor

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Jul 2010 09:55

Lets hope that the engine related matter is resolved soon. So that the full potential of the upgraded mahine is realised.

Telang · Post by **Telang** » 11 Jul 2010 12:40

My confidence in Indian effort and capabilities is elevated. Kudos to techies. Thanks to Shiv Aroor.

Bihanga · Post by **Bihanga** » 11 Jul 2010 12:52

Although upgraded Mig-27 is an all weather aircraft which use Laser Designation POD for Target acuisition and release of weapon. But in case of Cloudy weather which is the case of our Himalayan Frontiers, it will become difficult to acquire the target through LDP and attack it using LGB.

Please clarify somone on the same.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 12 Jul 2010 10:26

Is it me or has a sudden epidemic of Chipanda drones just broken out?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jul 2010 10:36

laser designation doesnt work in bad weather or dust storm. the options for that are use glonass guided munitions on static targets and CCIP bombing using SAR mode of radar (but mig27 has no radar so cannot use that option).

cloudy weather or dust haze can be anywhere, not just himalaya. any AFs ops will suffer in such conditions, not just IAF. armies always like to attack when enemy air force cannot operate.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 12 Jul 2010 11:46

Doesn't the LDP generally have a FLIR camera attached??? Shouldn't that help overcome the cloud and haze...

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 12 Jul 2010 12:38

Bala Vignesh wrote:Doesn't the LDP generally have a FLIR camera attached??? Shouldn't that help overcome the cloud and haze...

Yes, I think FLIR/LANTIRN can be used for CCIP/CCRP bombing using unguided bombs and target acquisition.

trushant · Post by **trushant** » 12 Jul 2010 15:32

Once had a chance to be in Mig 27ML's cockpit...at Kalaikunda AFS..around 2006. This bird was in the tech area for engine overhaul. One word for the cockpit "Cluttered" All the time I was wondering what it would be like scanning all these dials while on a combat sortie...I guess Shiv had posted the before after type image of the cockpit some time back on Livefist

What IAF has achieved with DARE and HAL is simply phenomenal. Kudos!

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 12 Jul 2010 17:14

Telang wrote:My confidence in Indian effort and capabilities is elevated. Kudos to techies. Thanks to Shiv Aroor.

Definitely, time to appreciate. Compared to what he was doing recently, i think this deserves much kudos.
Good job Shiv Aroor.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Jul 2010 17:26

trushant wrote:Once had a chance to be in Mig 27ML's cockpit...at Kalaikunda AFS..around 2006. This bird was in the tech area for engine overhaul. One word for the cockpit "Cluttered" All the time I was wondering what it would be like scanning all these dials while on a combat sortie...I guess Shiv had posted the before after type image of the cockpit some time back on Livefist

What IAF has achieved with DARE and HAL is simply phenomenal. Kudos!

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 13 Jul 2010 03:50

The Unintended Consequences of Constant Upgrades on Fighters

Jaguar Awaits Re-engine RFP As Bidders Spar
Aviation Week

Rivals Honeywell and Rolls-Royce are trading public barbs as they await the delayed request for proposals to re-engine India’s fleet of 120 twin-engine Jaguar Fighters, which have Slowly Become Overweight and Underpowered as a Result of Avionics and Weapon Systems Upgrades.

Honeywell says its F125IN engine enables 23% shorter high-hot takeoffs, 17%-40% higher thrust and 36% greater fuel range than the Rolls-Royce engine currently powering the Jaguar.

A Fatigue Analysis Done by the Indian air force Estimates the Fleet could Last another 25 Years.

Honeywell projects savings of $1.5 billion in lifecycle costs over the life of the program with its engine, according to Pritam Bhavnani, recently appointed president for Honeywell Aerospace India.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 13 Jul 2010 17:06

Found this on strategypage regarding TACDE.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htcbts ... 00713.aspx

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 13 Jul 2010 19:19

darshhan wrote:Found this on strategypage regarding TACDE.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htcbts ... 00713.aspx

1000 Tomahawks are on their way.

get rid of strategypage, this site is haraam on BR.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Jul 2010 17:21

IAF's fifth batch to congo

The contingent will operate Mi-17 helicopters in the erstwhile volatile provinces of Kivu and Ituri. The helicopters would be employed for observation, recce, casualty evacuation, logistics supply, troop insertion-extraction and armed support, as and when required. The attack helicopters will provide deterrence and cover to Mi-17 operations and ground convoys.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 16 Jul 2010 04:49

India Expresses Interest In MQ-8B Fire Scout Sale
Aviation Week

India Expresses Interest In MQ-8B Fire Scout Sale
July 15, 2010
By Neelam Mathews
NEW DELHI

India is planning to issue a letter of request to the U.S government for a U.S. foreign military sale (FMS) of Northrop Grumman’s MQ-8B Fire Scout vertical takeoff unmanned aerial system (VTUAS).

The Indian government is expected to send a request via the U.S Embassy for FMS clearance, as “the technology is not for release,” an Indian navy official says. Northrop has made presentations on the system over the past few years to the Indian Navy & Indian Army.

With homegrown insurgency a big concern in India, interest has emerged for the Airborne Standoff Minefield Detection System (Astamids), which has been demonstrated on Fire Scout.

“The insurgents lay mines to be remotely triggered four inches below the roads in the Eastern states of India,” an army official says. “The algorithms to locate IEDs [improvised explosive devices] through processing Astamids imagery will prove a boon to the paramilitary forces having to cope with this problem.”

The sensor’s primary function is to detect minefields in support of mobile ground forces in day and night conditions. It uses quad-prism aperture-splitting technology with the aid of an integrated illuminator and target laser rangefinder and designator. The 75-lb. electro-optical infrared/multi-spectral imaging payload can detect surface-emplaced and recently buried patterned mines, as well as randomly scattered mines. The payload also can be expanded to detect obstacles, combat vehicles, camouflaged objects and other combat targets.

With the support of the U.S. Navy, Northrop and its industry partners completed a set of Fire Scout flight demonstrations in the United Arab Emirates on July 14. The demonstrations included numerous takeoffs and landings in hot, windy and sandy conditions in temperatures as high as 47 deg. C (117 degrees F). The VTUAS also conducted various test flights at altitudes up to 3,000 meters (9,800 ft.). These demonstration missions included non-line-of-sight operations that showcased Fire Scout’s ability to operate autonomously in remote locations, and its FLIR Systems electro-optical/infrared sensing capabilities used to locate and acquire targets, according to a statement. The flights also demonstrated the vehicle’s real-time imagery-transmission capability.

Based on a Schweizer Aircraft commercial helicopter airframe, the Fire Scout incorporates reliable turbine power (160 million flight hours) using standard NATO heavy fuel.

Meanwhile, the Indian government’s decision to convert its Alouette III light utility helicopters — known in India as the Chetak helicopter — into UAVs is in Abeyance for the moment.
A year and a half ago, there was a plan for the Chetak to be fitted with the sensor suite of the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Heron UAV and an IAI-developed, bolt-on flight control package.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jul 2010 02:24

Raytheon Complains To Indian Govt Against Israeli Elta In Business Surveillance Jet Deal !!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jul 2010 08:42

not sure what was special yesterday night but no less than *five* jets took off from HAL towards west in a 1 hr timespan around 7-8pm. none were fighters. atleast one was B737 sized. the rest were smaller jets of the astra/emb/learjet size.

normally all one sees at night are AN32's doing touch and go landing practice.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jul 2010 10:05

Juggi G wrote:Raytheon Complains To Indian Govt Against Israeli Elta In Business Surveillance Jet Deal !!!

Falling under the Director General (Security), under Aviation Research Center (ARC), the aircraft have civilian pilots as well as those from the Indian Air Force (IAF), who come on deputation, with the special aircraft being headed by an IAF Air Vice Marshal, called the Operations Manager, who reports to the DG (Security), who in turn is under the Cabinet Secretariat, with the entire apparatus coming under the National Security Advisor (NSA).

Quite a hierarchy for the ARC!!!

Just 2 aircraft are being procured for a country the size of India?? Hope that even this deal doesn't go into endless wait mode like the other deals seem to be going...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jul 2010 10:14

If they buy Ratheyon sourced equipment for SIGINT/COMINT aircraft you are not sure if those data end up being hooked at nearest NSA receiving station

Elta is a better and safer bet for sensitive deal

I was just looking at the Russian Airforce One pictures link link

I was wondering if our own 737NG BBJ Airforce One with many sensitive Black Boxes ( or for that matter the aircraft ) sourced from US are smartly and covertly hooked to US NSA providing range of intel as our beloved PM discusses and travels.

Does US Govt gives guarantees that these aircraft are not bugged , not that it wont but any guarantees for sensitive equipment ?

Didnt the Chinese found that at a very early stage and protested for one of their aircraft.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 17 Jul 2010 13:12

Juggi G wrote:Raytheon Complains To Indian Govt Against Israeli Elta In Business Surveillance Jet Deal !!!

"With a disturbed neighbourhood, it is important to have aviation assets seperate from the IAF, by the Cabinet which from time to time carry out missions of data collection. Sometimes they do get intercepted and the matter is taken up by the Governments of the two countries."

What gets intercepted?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jul 2010 14:48

Aircraft I suppose the SIGINT aircraft , see no reason to be intercepted if they are doing this from our own airspace , if they venture inside others they will be intercepted

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 17 Jul 2010 21:39

Singha wrote:not sure what was special yesterday night but no less than *five* jets took off from HAL towards west in a 1 hr timespan around 7-8pm. none were fighters. atleast one was B737 sized. the rest were smaller jets of the astra/emb/learjet size.

normally all one sees at night are AN32's doing touch and go landing practice.

Also saw ,for first time ,a lancer type heli yesterday morning above HAL airport.

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Jul 2010 08:38

X Posted from the radar thread.

Raytheon press release.

India to equip P-8I with the APY-10 Radar:

Raytheon Awarded Radar Contract for P-8I Maritime Surveillance Aircraft

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jul 2010 21:50

Russia's defense corporation signs contract on helicopter supplies to India

Russia's state-owned defense corporation Oboronprom and India's Vectra Group have signed a $30 million contract on the supply of four Ka-32 Helix helicopters, the Russian company's CEO Andrei Reus said on Monday.

"I signed a contract with the Indian company Vectra on the supply of four Russian Ka-32 helicopters," Reus said.

"Although this is only four aircraft, it is important that it is actually the opening of the Indian market for Russian helicopters," he said.

The Ka-32 can be employed as a transport aircraft, for ice patrol, fire fighting as well as search and rescue operations.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 20 Jul 2010 01:49

IAF begins Apache trials

The Indian Air Force (IAF) began trials for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter last week. IAF sources confirmed that the aircraft, which is competing with the Russian Mi-28 for the IAF’s tender for 22 attack helicopters, has already completed trials in Jaisalmer and is currently undergoing high altitude, flight and maneuverability demonstrations at Leh.

The trials are expected to continue till the end of next week, after which the Mi-28 is expected to be given a similar once-over. The maintenance and weapons trials of the former will be conducted in the United States in the coming weeks................

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jul 2010 08:52

Oh my that is one heck of an ugly beast from this angle.

Having said that i would prefer not to be told that I must think of capability and not looks, because exactly the opposite is said depending on country of origin

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2010 09:14

wait for a week, the Mi28N is even uglier. those use cheeks (added avionics bays and fuel tanks) make it look like darth vader.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 20 Jul 2010 09:20

Here is its competition in ugliness.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 20 Jul 2010 09:31

Reminds me of the hindi saying - "Ek to Karela,woh bhi neem chada" (bitter gourd with coating of Neem)....just imagine the plight of TSPA Tank commander who might get a glimpse of these beast before being blasted to oblivion......

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 20 Jul 2010 09:43

Singha wrote:wait for a week, the Mi28N is even uglier. those use cheeks (added avionics bays and fuel tanks) make it look like darth vader.

That Havoc is one ugly piece of work onlee...yet there is something mesmerising about these beasts...be it the longbhau or the havoc...OT but my personal fav has always been the hind 24/35 one look at it and it says "hmph I m big fat and ugly but if you mess with me I will turn you and everything around you to oblivion"

It is interesting however that the IAF is conducting these trials would have been nice IMHO to get the Army Aviation guys involved on this....yes yes I know other than the Chetaks, Cheetahs, Dhruvs ityadi they dont really operate the heavy hitters....

nishu · Post by **nishu** » 20 Jul 2010 09:56

the first thing that struck my mind after seeing the above chopper is goofy http://api.ning.com/files/IFQ5zoE4sLWCQ ... 00h418.jpg

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 20 Jul 2010 09:58

I think the Mi-24 is he best looking helicopter. It looks very smooth.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2010 10:01

imho they stand a better chance of seeing real action in ladakh/NE/sikkim than in the west. hence the high alt trials.