Indian Military Aviation

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rohitvats
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby rohitvats » 28 Aug 2010 22:40

^^^The whole number and a/c type equation depends on the rate of induction of planned a/c and domestic production run of the LCA.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 28 Aug 2010 22:52

No Bisons will stay beyond 2020. The MiG-21Bis airframe has been certified upto 2400 hours or 2685 hours (as per the 16th report of the Standing Committee on Defence Parliamentary report) as per the OEM's specifications and after NAL did fatigue testing on a Bis airframe it was found that it an extension of 1000 hours or 10 years could be given to the airframe, but after that without major rework it won't be possible to extend their operational lives anymore.

And since all the Bisons were MiG-21Bis upgrades and not new build airframes, they've already used up a major portion of their airframe lives. HAL built MiG-21Bis starting from 1980 to 1987 and so the oldest of the Bis airframes that were converted to the Bison will run of TTL around 2015 (if they were used at 1000 hours per decade and not any more) and the youngest ones will all be out of airframe life by 2017-2020. But the older Bis frames will be starting to retire earlier itself, so the Bison fleet will start a phased retirement from around 2015 or so.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Telang » 29 Aug 2010 02:19

Just think, each LCA or any other fighter that we induct needs a pilot and it takes more than 4 years for him to get relieved from the tag of a rooky after taking his first flight. Each fighter also needs trained ground maintenance staff in every field of speciality (engine, airframe, armament etc.) and it takes atleast three years for a recruit or six months for the seniors to get converted to the new fighter maintenance. Together a squadron needs an Air Force station a lot of support staff as well as infrastructure / logistics. Each AF station can only hold a limited number of squadrons. There are hundreds of other details which need to be worked out well in advance. Topping all these woes, you need the Babus to sanction all this against their will.

By habit babus sanction your application for a marriage loan at the time of your retirement. So, schedules shall have no meaning.

Induction should have been progressive, but future scenario seems to be too many deliveries, and all of them all of a sudden!!! All this is because we were hibernating during the time we should have been sweating in planned acquisitions. Will it be an instant journey from starvation to indigestion??

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby darshhan » 29 Aug 2010 03:00

Mig 21 and 27s should definitely be retired as soon as possible.Those who are hoping to extend its life till 2020 or 2025 are forgetting that these aircrafts are extremely unsafe compared to other aircrafts in IAF inventory and are extracting a huge cost in the form of pilots' lives.

By 2020's dozens of pilots more would have perished or injured due to crashes.As a nation we should do everything that is possible to prevent this.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby archan » 29 Aug 2010 03:30

chackojoseph wrote:Instead of UCAV's, it should be converted as one way long range artillery. The airframes don't have UCAV potential. Load a lot of gun powder with trigger, add a cheap gps, an auto pilot. Feed a paki or Chinese base co-ordinates and send it, never to return. Let the blastid thing put the base or around fire (screw accuracy). Let 200 of these tech the terrorist or commies a lesson.

Please check your PM inbox.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby adhee » 29 Aug 2010 03:43

ya ...600 in numbers
I assume tht it will be like

200~250 PAK-FA
MMRCA may be elongated from its 126 to minimum of 200(hope we will stop in 200)
SU 30 MKI numbers also may go up may be a 100 more
I believe the rest will go for our Tejas M 2 tht will be around 100 or so..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby VinodTK » 29 Aug 2010 05:06

IAF planes, missiles to avert 9/11 type attack

Full artical posted below

New Delhi, Aug. 28: The Joint Command Analysis Centres (JCAC) at Delhi, headed by an Indian Air Force officer, which is an establishment comprising both IAF and civilian functionaries is likely to be weaponised.

Government sources said that currently, in case a threat is detected from any civilian aircraft over Delhi, the JCAC meets and decides issues such as authorisation to scramble IAF aircraft to neutralise the threat, if any.

But the weaponisation of JCACs with surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) will add a whole new dimension. It will mean that once a civilian aircraft is identified as a rogue aircraft posing a terror threat, it can be knocked out of the sky with SAMs.

In any case, the anti-hijacking policy of the government — formulated in 2005 — permits shooting down of a civilian aircraft if the aircraft is being used as a “missile” in a 9/11-type attack. New Delhi has some prohibited airspace over it on account of the presence of important buildings like Parliament, Rashtrapati Bhavan and North and South Blocks.

But, as was seen during the Mumbai terror attacks, even high-profile private buildings can be attacked by terrorists to cause maximum damage. Following the Mumbai terror attacks, intelligence agencies had received inputs that terror groups may now attempt to strike at high-profile targets using small aircraft or attempt to hijack aircraft and use them as missiles in an operation similar to the 9/11 attacks in the US.

Sources said the objective is to integrate airspace so that the JCACs can identify all aircraft flying in Indian airspace at any given time. The proposed induction of the satellite-based navigation system “Gagan” will help immensely, sources added.

Government sources, however, said extreme caution has to be exercised to ensure that a civilian aircraft is not shot down by mistake.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby chackojoseph » 29 Aug 2010 08:30

archan wrote:Please check your PM inbox.


Thanks, got it. It will be done.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Pratyush » 29 Aug 2010 12:42

Marten,

I think he is saying that 600, is the number of new build airframes from 2015 to 2030. Which is what I have suggested in om of my previous posts.

As I have taken the sanctioned sq strength of IAF at 60 combat sqs, by 2030.

That translates to approx 960 jets @ 16 combat planes / sq,

Of this 270+126 are MKI and the MRCA (Not counting attrition ) respectively. So you will still need 600 combat jets + combat capable trainers for the rest of the force.

Which is a respectable number. For any air force.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Manish_Sharma » 29 Aug 2010 13:08

By 2030:

1.) AMCA = 300
2.) Pak FA = 150
3.) LCA Mk2 = 250
4.) LCA Mk 1 = 100
5.) MRCA = 126
6.) Su 30 =300

Total = 1226

Around 68 squadrons

if we increase MRCA = 200, it adds 4 more squadrons taking the number to 72 squadrons :twisted:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 30 Aug 2010 13:04

Manish_Sharma wrote:By 2030:

1.) AMCA = 300
Haah, thats a very very long shot.

Manish_Sharma wrote:4.) LCA Mk 1 = 100
By 2030, LCA Mk1 will be what Mig 21s are now. May be even more outdated.

If we are to increase numbers, upping the total no. of MKIs and Tejas' will not really generate the punch we need to, as at the current rate we're only replacing the older Migs. We need additional assmebly lines to work in tandem...thats where we're hoping the MMRCA and later, the PAK-FA can fill in.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 30 Aug 2010 13:18

DM, LCA Mk2, not Mk1 will be at same tech level as MRCA, tech wise the MKI might fall behind a little but it will still be enormously capable. there is no way in hell LCA in 2030 will be as mig-21 is today, anymore than typhoon or rafale would be. in fact in some aspects Mk2 will likely end up more tech advanced than some of the MRCA contenders. ;)

we are not buying MRCA for tech beyond MKI but to make up numbers with a capability that does not call for MKI like operational costs. no doubt they will have a couple more advanced features than MKI but that is because they are newer designs, not because that was the objective of acquisition.

as for AMCA, I will be more than happy if we have anything between 60-100 airframes in 2030, anything more is plain unrealistic.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 30 Aug 2010 15:25

Rahul M wrote:DM, LCA Mk2, not Mk1 will be at same tech level as MRCA, tech wise the MKI might fall behind a little but it will still be enormously capable.
Arre RM, looks like you misunderstood me. I'm saying Tejas Mk1 will be due for phase out in 2030 like the Migs are now.

And I was pointing to IAF's numerical needs when I talked of MKI and Tejas. Issuing a top-up order of 40-50 more MKis will show its benefit only in the second half of next decade, when they will be manufactured only after the initial 230 are delivered since there is a limit to how fast we can build them. Ditto with Tejas. We may order 300 Tejas', but they'll be built at a certain rate onlee. At this rate we'll only be replacing the outdated a/cs rather than boosting the numbers. We need more assembly lines to gain over the attrition/phaseout rate.

JMT.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nrshah » 30 Aug 2010 19:00

Cross Posting from Space related thread

dinesha wrote:Payloads for Chandrayaan-2 finalised
http://www.indiablooms.com/EnvironmentD ... 00810a.php
Chandrayaan–2 will have an orbiter (satellite), a lander and a rover.

...................
L and S band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) from Space Applications Centre (SAC), Ahmedabad for probing the first few tens of meters of the lunar surface for the presence of different constituents including water ice. SAR is expected to provide further evidence confirming the presence of water ice below the shadowed regions of the moon.

.........................


From the above, SAC has developed L and S band SAR and also radar that can penetrate upto 10 meters of Lunar surface....
Can DRDO collaborate with them for its own radar to tackle IEDs (The one it wants to develop with SAAB as was reported sometime back)?
Also, our own AESA can also have SAR mode?

Or i am not getting anything? Gurus Please through some light..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 30 Aug 2010 19:02

Livefist PHOTOS: IAF Upgraded MiG-27 Avionics Part Trainer http://tinyurl.com/28qfjb5

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Sep 2010 00:07

Dmurphy wrote:Arre RM, looks like you misunderstood me. I'm saying Tejas Mk1 will be due for phase out in 2030 like the Migs are now.


Its interesting that you're saying that the Tejas Mk1 will serve only 20 years..

I have it on good authority from a source who was a very high up composites guy in ADA, that the LCA was being designed for a TTL in the range of 6000 hours.

Even with a much longer endurance than the MiG-21Bis due to IFR (and hence longer duration sorties meaning more hours on the airframe), as well as the flogging of the intial fleet due to the training needs as the fleet is built up, the Tejas Mk1 fleet may last longer than just 20 years.

Although, one interesting comparison point may be the RAF Typhoon fleet, which is fast using up its life, and the first Tranche 1 Typhoons are due to retire in 2020 unless a structural upgrade program is carried out by then.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Prem Kumar » 01 Sep 2010 02:42

nrshah wrote:Cross Posting from Space related thread

From the above, SAC has developed L and S band SAR and also radar that can penetrate upto 10 meters of Lunar surface....
Can DRDO collaborate with them for its own radar to tackle IEDs (The one it wants to develop with SAAB as was reported sometime back)?
Also, our own AESA can also have SAR mode?

Or i am not getting anything? Gurus Please through some light..


I am not an expert, but from what I understood, L & S bands (lower frequency) are useful for assessing mineral compositions, vegetation cover etc - i.e. applications where a fine resolution is not required. For detecting IEDs, you would need higher resolution & therefore a higher frequency radar like X-band. Plus the associated signal processing algorithms to classify an object against its background. Its a more difficult problem to solve.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Dmurphy » 01 Sep 2010 08:32

Kartik wrote:Its interesting that you're saying that the Tejas Mk1 will serve only 20 years..

I have it on good authority from a source who was a very high up composites guy in ADA, that the LCA was being designed for a TTL in the range of 6000 hours.
Kartik, I'm not putting a a value on its shelf life. But IMHO, in this Aquarian age, when things are changing so fast in the field of technology, I'm afraid the Mk1 might get irrelevant in 2030, much faster than the Mig-21s did in our times - irrespective of how much life it has left in it. Don't you think so?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Telang » 01 Sep 2010 14:41

Kartik wrote:
Its interesting that you're saying that the Tejas Mk1 will serve only 20 years..


Not only just for the LCA or JSF, but for any thing and everything that involves technology. I am afride nothing IN FUTURE will stay, with out being drastically superceded tecnologically, for more than 10 years.

My cell phone, alas, I purchased for 24 thousand just two years back. It is outdated now, and better ones are available for muh cheaper rate. I think the same will be the case for everything.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2010 14:47

Telang wrote:
My cell phone, alas, I purchased for 24 thousand just two years back. It is outdated now, and better ones are available for muh cheaper rate. I think the same will be the case for everything.


If you have not changed your cellphone - it means you are bucking the trend. It may be cheaper for you and equally effective to continue with your old phone.

The same argument can apply to aircraft also. It may be cheaper and equally effective to go on for 10 more years even if newer and less expensive ones are available later.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby neerajb » 01 Sep 2010 15:13

Telang wrote:I think the same will be the case for everything.


Definitely the newer planes will be technologically more advanced but with upgrades even an old dog can be kept relevant. But newer planes costing less is something hard to swallow, at least going by the past trends. In fact the next gen planes are getting obscenely expensive as compared to their previous counterparts.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 01 Sep 2010 15:29

I would expect the tejas, in whatever version to continue till 2040 if not 2045. write it down somewhere in case I'm still around then. ;)
the timegap between successive generations has increased by a very large margin for the 5th gen aircrafts. while we had hardly 10 years passing between 1st and 2nd or 2nd and 3rd gen fighters, currently it takes 20 or even more years. heck the 2nd 5gen aircraft of US itself will enter service about 15 years after the first one.
an aircraft after all is not a cellphone, analogies like this only go so far.

DM, we can always start a line of the same aircraft isn't it ? it doesn't have to be a new model, does it ? if a new model is chosen it probably means there are other reasons than to make up numbers.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby manum » 01 Sep 2010 16:46

The same argument can apply to aircraft also. It may be cheaper and equally effective to go on for 10 more years even if newer and less expensive ones are available later.


until unless, you are not forced to keep updated and receive mails on the go...minimum of new things...if not a data storage and gr8 gps and many more...and ya check BRF...when you are somewhere...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 01 Sep 2010 17:25

manum wrote:until unless, you are not forced to keep updated and receive mails on the go...minimum of new things...if not a data storage and gr8 gps and many more...and ya check BRF...when you are somewhere...


Correct. And that is why any similarity between someone's cellphone preferences this year and the IAF's aircraft preferences as predicted in 20 years from now is a strawman waiting to be knocked down. If there is any serious analysis about aircraft technology trends, cost trends and warfare trends it is one thing. But saying that your cellphone of two years ago is outdated and that is why IAF will retire an aircraft in 20 years is not an argument that is convincing on any logical, technical, scientific or economic grounds that I can discern.

The last pair of sneakers I bought lasted five years - so why on earth do aircraft tyres not last that long? Sneaker technology has changed no? Why not aircraft tyre tech?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Manish_Sharma » 01 Sep 2010 20:33

Rahul M wrote:as for AMCA, I will be more than happy if we have anything between 60-100 airframes in 2030, anything more is plain unrealistic.


Rahul my dream of 300 AMCA by 2030 is based on:
1. 2012 Project officially starts.
2. We already have FBW experience.
3. The composites are getting indiginiesed.
4. Experienced design team.
5. Kaveri gets another 8 years time to power AMCA, plus with tot from EJ200 would give some boost atleast.
6. AESA tech from MRCA would also be fairly digested by 2018.
7. Astra, Meteor & Python 5 available as air to air.
8. IRST of FGFA can be used.
9. So by 2020 IOC and 2022 FOC then we have 8 years of production till 2030. By 2022 Production lines of Su 30, MRCA and Tejas Mk II will be free, only FGFA will be in production.

So going by the rate of 35 - 40 planes per year, we may get there!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby JimmyJ » 01 Sep 2010 20:59

Manish_Sharma wrote:9. So by 2020 IOC and 2022 FOC


Wouldn't that be too optimistic considering the fact that engine selection for Mk2 is not yet done, structural modifications for mk2 would require experienced resources as mk2 is the top priority.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Sep 2010 21:15

Dmurphy wrote:Kartik, I'm not putting a a value on its shelf life. But IMHO, in this Aquarian age, when things are changing so fast in the field of technology, I'm afraid the Mk1 might get irrelevant in 2030, much faster than the Mig-21s did in our times - irrespective of how much life it has left in it. Don't you think so?


No, I was only talking from the airframe life point of view. Obsolescence of the technologies on board the Tejas Mk1 can be resolved by mid-life upgrades or periodic technology insertions, and not all the fighters in our neighbourhood will be 5th gen fighters or UAVs by 2020 or even 2030. Otherwise what you're saying is that the PAF will deinduct 150 (or 250) JF-17s and replace them with equal number of J-XX fighters ? Impossible economically alone for them..and what will then follow is that the PLAAF will be deinducting hundreds of Su-27s, Su-30MKKs, J-11s, J-10s, and replacing all of them with whatever their 5th gen J-XX design is ? I don't think its economically feasible nor is it required. The only drawback with 3rd or 4th gen fighters will be the lack of all-aspect stealth but that in itself will not kill them so fast. Otherwise what the hell are we investing billions of $ for a 4th gen MRCA for?

Keep in mind that technologies for avionics, radars, electro-optics, etc. may be advancing rapidly but the most time-consuming and hard to attain maturity is that of the airframe, its aerodynamics and its reliability. No OEM will dump a fighter platform if there is any life left in it because there is just so much money invested in perfecting it in the first place.

What is required is that the DRDO and ADA be very proactive in identifying technologies and new weapons that can be incorporated into Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 variants throughout their lives, be able to do R&D or JVs (whatever works) to get those technologies and carry out such upgrades in a quick and efficient manner at a feasible cost.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Kartik » 01 Sep 2010 21:41

Telang wrote:Not only just for the LCA or JSF, but for any thing and everything that involves technology. I am afride nothing IN FUTURE will stay, with out being drastically superceded tecnologically, for more than 10 years.

My cell phone, alas, I purchased for 24 thousand just two years back. It is outdated now, and better ones are available for muh cheaper rate. I think the same will be the case for everything.


with all due respect, when you compare cellphones going obsolete to fighter jets (each program on an average lasting longer than a decade for development and another half for testing and entering operational service) then your whole argument about technological obsolescence of fighters loses its relevance. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The cellphone companies vie for millions of customers who have hundreds of different options. if they don't come up with newer features that attract buyers, then someone else will. And someone else will because the overall program development costs for new cellphones are nowhere even in the ballpark as those for fighters. And the overall life span of a cellphone is about 2-4 years after which most people will buy a new one. There may be a dozen or so big cellphone manufacturers and how many products do they sell ? Hundreds ? Thousands ? Compare that to the niche fighter development and manufacturing business where less than 10 major companies are around and around 10 or so different fighters are basically available today from existing assembly lines. Technologies do not rapidly move on since reliability is the key and funding is not available for multitudes of new technologies to be finetuned, integrated and then flight tested. Only the most promising or the most affordable ones make it to the assembly line.

Take for instance the fighter's cockpit. There is more technology and software embedded in there than any cell phone and Mid-life updates generally address technological obsolescence by adding new generation displays, better MMI, newer avionics to help in navigation, landing, etc. If by 2020 the IAF feels that the Tejas Mk1's cockpit is no more good enough, then elements from the PAK-FA or AMCA could be used to develop a new layout..only a fool would dump the entire Tejas Mk1 platform due to such technological obsolescence issues.

The only way that the Tejas Mk1 could be dumped by 2020 or 2025 would be if they're flogged like the Su-30Ks in order to raise a large number of qualified pilots to man Tejas Mk1 and 2 squadrons as fighters roll off the lines. Or if the Tejas Mk1 has severe reliability issues that preclude normal operations. Only time will tell if those are true, but the arguments you're presenting to talk about 2020 as a possible date for Tejas Mk1 retirement are not true.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby manum » 01 Sep 2010 21:56

that is why its called air...craft, its crafted not mass produced...which china is exactly attempting...making air crafts also a mass produced items...just like cellphones...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Telang » 01 Sep 2010 23:44

Rahul M, Kartik and shiv wrote above and read them (since quoting the whole message will be lengthy repetition)


Yes I have compared apples with oranges. The underlying message has been missed. A $30 million aircraft is meant to cause certain amount of damage to the enemy. The enemy attempts to have means to counter it with equal ability. Wars do not breakout on daily basis. A generation of the Air Force pilots joined and retired with out seeing combat. This generation and the aircraft that were flown by them caused expenditure on daily basis. Wars in future will not be the same. The warfare too will not be the same. There are lot many technologies under development in the west which have not been advertised or shown to others but when time comes they will suddenly appear, as did Cruise missile, laser guided smart bombs and stealth bombers.

Though we can not do away with standing armed forces, we may find some economical and technologically superior alternatives soon. That alternatives with respect to the Air Force need not be strictly a new fighter to replace an older one. Cost effective and safer alternatives will emerge and that alternatives functionally be the same as a fighter. It could be UAV, UCAV, Cruise missile, Ballistic missile or anything new and not foreseen as yet. That new thing will be an apple while the fighter concept will be an orange. Though one is not to be compared with the other, functionally the apple may be able to do safely, cheaply what the orange would do with risk to life while being economically very costly on initial investment and on day to day maintenance for as long as a period of one generation, or even more. The apples here have another advantage; their strenght estimation will be difficult for the enemy, since most of them can remain in shelf, and can provide a lot of surprise element in a war. When I hinted a new technology, it was necessarily not another fighter, but anything that would do the same as a fighter.

One small addition. Mrichakatikam was written about two thousand years ago. Bullock carts almost with the same tech are plying on the roads even today. Use of a car or a bullock cart depends on ones economy and need, rather than the uselessness of the bullock cart. Ofcourse, the bullock cart will always be useful as long as the bullocks are available, that in my opinion will be for one more thousand years atleast. In the warfare, what counts is sound tactics, numbers, morale, training and superiority of equipment.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby manum » 02 Sep 2010 07:52

Ya, if one finds the technology relevant or doable as per person's context...technology will exist in his/her hands...so if bullock carts, are relevant, there must be contextual reasons...anyway I remembered something from your post...is the MMRCA decision, that how IA decided to stick to determinable in their reports than trying for intangibles...now it's we and many others discussing what we'll fly, Bullock cart or a plane...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 02 Sep 2010 08:06

Telang wrote: A generation of the Air Force pilots joined and retired with out seeing combat. This generation and the aircraft that were flown by them caused expenditure on daily basis. Wars in future will not be the same. The warfare too will not be the same. There are lot many technologies under development in the west which have not been advertised or shown to others but when time comes they will suddenly appear, as did Cruise missile, laser guided smart bombs and stealth bombers.


A beautiful post. But like the cellphone straw man - this offers no explanation whatever about how or why the LCA will be retired in 20 years.

In fact if you look closely at what you have written - it makes a very strong case for sticking to the LCA for even longer. If you have a reliable aircraft that can be upgraded with avionics or even modified in house to keep up with capabilities, and its maintenance is easy and friendly and its costs are fully recovered and the weapons system is totally and seamlessly integrated with the forces it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to suddenly go for a change in 20 years and get a new system that costs 400 to 450 crore Rupees per aircraft (why do we talk in US dollars?) per piece and still has to be integrated.

And neither the former (old LCA) nor the latter (expensive new aircraft) will protect against new secret technologies that we do not know about. So that sentence only adds more fluff without explaining how it is in any way more relevant to retiring the LCA than your two year old cellphone.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby shiv » 02 Sep 2010 08:15

Telang wrote: In the warfare, what counts is sound tactics, numbers, morale, training and superiority of equipment.


Sir please either reject or support your original idea rather than changing the subject with well known truisms that few can disagree with.

And you are saying that changing over from a 120 crore aircraft to a 450 crore aircraft in 20 years is sound tactics because your cellphone is old and that new and secret weapons will emerge?

To remind you of the original exchange that started this discussion:
Telang wrote:
Kartik wrote:
Its interesting that you're saying that the Tejas Mk1 will serve only 20 years..


Not only just for the LCA or JSF, but for any thing and everything that involves technology. I am afride nothing IN FUTURE will stay, with out being drastically superceded tecnologically, for more than 10 years.

My cell phone, alas, I purchased for 24 thousand just two years back. It is outdated now, and better ones are available for muh cheaper rate. I think the same will be the case for everything.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Telang » 02 Sep 2010 22:50

do not shout and do not derail threads with completely random visions of future.
this is the 3rd time I'm saying this, you better get the message for you are only
2 steps away from a perm ban.
Rahul.
Last edited by Rahul M on 02 Sep 2010 23:27, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: 3rd warning, 1 month ban.


nrshah
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Posts: 577
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 16:36

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nrshah » 03 Sep 2010 14:33



Poor insight on the party of IAF and MOD is responsible for such head lines... It is pity to see a country designing 4th gen A/c and in process of developing 4.5G and awaiting sanction for 5 G a/c has to import basic trainers...

nrshah
BRFite
Posts: 577
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 16:36

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby nrshah » 03 Sep 2010 14:54

Jaguar reengine program is going no where, neither is Mig 27... Does it speak of any thing related to LCA induction?

Just thinking loud...

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby sum » 03 Sep 2010 15:09


Truely a shame for a country aspiring to be a "superpower" to be importing even basic jet trainers...

Austin
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Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Austin » 03 Sep 2010 16:03

sum wrote:

Truely a shame for a country aspiring to be a "superpower" to be importing even basic jet trainers...


Who says we are aspiring to be a "superpower" beyond ofcourse BRF

Aditya Watts
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Posts: 50
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Location: Netherlands

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Aditya Watts » 03 Sep 2010 16:05

sum wrote:

Truely a shame for a country aspiring to be a "superpower" to be importing even basic jet trainers...

My thoughts exactly.

In the article I was surprised to see one of the candidates if I compare it with the others included: The Italian M-311. This appears to be a jet-powered aircraft and seems to be of a heavier class. How does this fit in the basic trainer aircraft story?


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