MRCA News and Discussion

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Dmurphy » 09 Sep 2009 00:15

^^^ Woohoo! Cool down boy! :D

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby prabir » 09 Sep 2009 00:52

Why do we get so alarmed by the Chinese. Their equipment and training is 3rd rate. They can at best do some nibbling like incursions along LAC and stay in news.
We had problems in 1962, because of Nehru and his cronies occupying combat positions in the Army. Now, it has changed and we can force a stalemate where the chinese gain nothing.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 09 Sep 2009 01:03

What has changed now? Now we have cronies of Raj Mata. Every institution in this country from Rashtrapati Bhawan to Election Commission is occupied by her cronies. We should not under estimate the Panda.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Raveen » 09 Sep 2009 01:16

PrithviRajChauhan wrote:What has changes now? Now we have cronies of Raj Mata. Every institution in this country from Rashtrapati Bhawan to Election Commission is occupied by her cronies. We should not under estimate the Panda.


I don't think Raj Mata evokes as much public emotion as Nehru and therefore won't be as blindly trusted/followed and also the internet will make sure the public is well informed, no more DD propoganda...and that is irrespective of how true or false your statement might be

prabir wrote:Why do we get so alarmed by the Chinese. Their equipment and training is 3rd rate. They can at best do some nibbling like incursions along LAC and stay in news.
We had problems in 1962, because of Nehru and his cronies occupying combat positions in the Army. Now, it has changed and we can force a stalemate where the chinese gain nothing.


Stereotypes don't help anyone...spl if you are an Indian who does not work in IT/call center, own a convinience store, and yell 'Thank you come again' at every instance
What we need (for a constructive debate) is facts, figures, sources and a lot of thinking, most of which is already present in the China centric thread

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby saptarishi » 09 Sep 2009 01:22

yes,,why the hell are we stuck with the same cold war mentalities,chant hindi chini bhai bhai and a get a kick in ass,,chinese weapons are not as advanced as indian ones,,,but look at the numbers,,we have su-30mki ,,230 of them,,,we will get 50 more,,,1 has crashed,so in total we have 279 of them ,,,look at chinese,,they will have 100 su-30mkk,150 su-27sk,,around 250 j-11 a and b,,that makes 500 flankers,,,,we will get 200mmrca,,,they will get 400 j-10 plus 250 jf-17,,,numbers do matter,,,,lets face it we cant fight china alone,,political relationships are give and take affairs,,,be usa's friend get usa's favour,,,give them some big ticket defence deals,,thats it,,,continue brotherhood with russia.....

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 09 Sep 2009 01:34

I don't think Raj Mata evokes as much public emotion as Nehru and therefore won't be as blindly trusted/followed and also the internet will make sure the public is well informed, no more DD propoganda...and that is irrespective of how true or false your statement might be


To some extent I agree with you that Raj Mata does not evokes the same kind of public emotion but she is having a good grip of the administration. I do not think that internet will keep common masses updated with these type information. We are still discussing the outcome of Pokhran 2 and we are still do not know about the seriousness of the recent Chinese incursions specially when the MEA and defence forces are speaking in two voices. To some extent we still have to depend on official versions.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Raveen » 09 Sep 2009 02:06

PrithviRajChauhan wrote:
I don't think Raj Mata evokes as much public emotion as Nehru and therefore won't be as blindly trusted/followed and also the internet will make sure the public is well informed, no more DD propoganda...and that is irrespective of how true or false your statement might be


To some extent I agree with you that Raj Mata does not evokes the same kind of public emotion but she is having a good grip of the administration. I do not think that internet will keep common masses updated with these type information. We are still discussing the outcome of Pokhran 2 and we are still do not know about the seriousness of the recent Chinese incursions specially when the MEA and defence forces are speaking in two voices. To some extent we still have to depend on official versions.


Let's not forget NDTV during Kargil...there are sources (non-govt) if (god forbid) Indian and Chinese forces face off

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 09 Sep 2009 02:18

Raveen wrote:Let's not forget NDTV during Kargil...there are sources (non-govt) if (god forbid) Indian and Chinese forces face off

NDTV :) One of the most biased source of information. Even the defense forces were not happy the coverage it did at that time . I may not provide you the link but it would be an under statement to say that that its another crony/proxy channel of our beloved Raj Mata.
Also, Kargil was a different ball game altogether. The actual man to man war happened at the mountain tops. Although its difficult for Chinkies to replicate what they did in 1962 but if that happened I am pretty sure, the so called Barkha Dutts of our media would not be able to access and provide the same coverage as they did in Kargil.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Raveen » 09 Sep 2009 02:21

PrithviRajChauhan wrote:
Raveen wrote:Let's not forget NDTV during Kargil...there are sources (non-govt) if (god forbid) Indian and Chinese forces face off

NDTV :) One of the most biased source of information. Even the defense forces were not happy the coverage it did at that time . I may not provide you the link but it would be an under statement to say that that its another crony/proxy channel of our beloved Raj Mata.


I don't agree, but then again I don't have to...OT over...back to MRCA

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dorai » 09 Sep 2009 02:45

Brazilian President on operating costs:

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."

http://www.france24.com/en/20090904-fra ... e?pop=TRUE


Reportedly the Super Hornet also scored lowest on technical marks below both the Rafale and Gripen.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Sep 2009 03:15

dorai wrote:Brazilian President on operating costs:

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."

http://www.france24.com/en/20090904-fra ... e?pop=TRUE


Reportedly the Super Hornet also scored lowest on technical marks below both the Rafale and Gripen.


To be sure, for the Brazilian requirements.

Out of curiosity, are the Brazilians getting ToT of any sorts?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Sep 2009 03:30

Well, ................. we now have a Pokhran II. :)

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ex ... -in-p.html

According to Section 6.1 under Article 28 of the contract between the two governments, the US will be liable for no penalties in the event that any "malicious code" is detected in the software that governs the P-8I's sensors and systems. Malicious code, among other things, could include deliberately embedded bits of software designed to do one or many of a variety of things, which could include encrypted recording of platform usage information -- data that only American inspectors will be able to decrypt during end-user inspections, without making it apparently so. Sound far-fetched. It apparently isn't. Anyway, the point is, if Indian engineers are lucky enough to detect the malicious software (in some fortuitous spasm of counter-intelligence), then as per the contract on paper, there will be no penalties. All the US will have to do is to modify the hardware or software and remove the malicious code, with no other liabilities.

There are folks who believe this is precisely what the US government has seen done in contracts with Pakistan's P-3 and F-16 fleet.


Enjoy.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby GeorgeWelch » 09 Sep 2009 03:32

dorai wrote:Brazilian President on operating costs:

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."


These sort of statements made after a winner is chosen are always to be taken with a grain of salt.

After Norway chose the F-35, they claimed it had lower life-cycle costs than the Gripen.

This was basically shown to be a bald-faced lie to make the choice more politically acceptable.

However the Rafale is a smaller plane so it certainly is possible. But it's hard to account for hidden costs like lack of funded upgrades throughout its lifecycle.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby GeorgeWelch » 09 Sep 2009 03:44

NRao wrote:Well, ................. we now have a Pokhran II. :)

Enjoy.


It's standard legalese to protect themselves from any liability for anything.

I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar wording, and if they don't, it's only because their lawyers aren't as good ;)

If you want to read a conspiracy into it, that's up to you.


(Besides it's not necessary for the function described because the US could easily claim that it's not malicious.)

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Sep 2009 03:45

But it's hard to account for hidden costs like lack of funded upgrades throughout its lifecycle.


I very much doubt if things like this actually matter in the Brazilian case.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Sep 2009 03:47

GeorgeWelch wrote:
NRao wrote:Well, ................. we now have a Pokhran II. :)

Enjoy.


It's standard legalese to protect themselves from any liability for anything.

I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar wording, and if they don't, it's only because their lawyers aren't as good ;)

If you want to read a conspiracy into it, that's up to you.


(Besides it's not necessary for the function described because the US could easily claim that it's not malicious.)


True. And, Aroor seems to be crossing the line more often in the recent past.

But, on a slow day .....................................

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Katare » 09 Sep 2009 07:01

dorai wrote:Brazilian President on operating costs:

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."

http://www.france24.com/en/20090904-fra ... e?pop=TRUE


Reportedly the Super Hornet also scored lowest on technical marks below both the Rafale and Gripen.


Dorai,

You should not put words in Brazilian president's mouth. Those are views of a private journalists not the official words of the president.

A Brazilian military expert who runs a specialist magazine titled Defesanet, Nelson During, told AFP that Brazil's decision should be known in October.


The price per plane -- one of the criticisms of the Rafale by its rival bidders -- "is not fundamental," During said.

"It's the operating cost that counts. The cost per hour of flight, of maintenance, of the electronics. We are a poor country and all this has to last for the next 30 years."

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dorai » 09 Sep 2009 07:35

lol the Brazilian defence department just released a statement that they haven't picked Rafale at all.

And that negotiations with all 3 jets continue.

Now they want to milk France some more :)

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 09 Sep 2009 08:25

American legal writings don't stand by itself without the backing of a strong technical capabilities to have even invested billions of $$$ just for fielding and testing of such malicious codes, especially drafted and dedicated for sales to international forces.. that is the only way they protect F16s or F18s not to be used against those countries it wishes to be in the barred list of nations that the purchasing nation may not fight with or some intel infused malfunctioning of systems when using weapons and other defensive configuration against such geographic coordinates. its very easy to even draft such specifications, sitting even somewhere at sundarbans or some tekkadi river in kerala. what is important, is their capabilities to infuse these bugs. And.. they will do it by all means.

if we sign up for removing such malicious by way of some counter legal document, it would only enforce the maliciousness to become robust, having now a premise to fall within.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby avinash.rd » 09 Sep 2009 10:16

saptarishi wrote:funny what silly people we are,,i don' know why are people so against buying american weapons,,,this is 21st century,,cold war is over,conditions have changed,pakistan is busy with its war on terror,,real threat is china,,reports say china may attack india in 2012,,because it wants to deviate attention from its internal matters.WAKE UP TO THE REALITY FELLOW INDIANS ,,,SCRAP THE NON ALIGNMENT TREATY AND ENTER NATO,,like many american enemies during cold war like POLAND,BULGARIA ,ALBANIA,HUNGARY,SLOVAKIA,SLOVENIA,ROMANIA have done,,,with uncle sam helping us we can be very strong,,,but if we continue to be same ,,we may well have to face the same embarrassment of 1962,,,,so go and forge a strategic partnership with usa,,,the first step is buy american mmrca,,,,we already have large number of su-30mki,,,we cant put all eggs in russian basket,,french got scorpene,,may even get the artillery deal for 180 caesar truck mounnted howitzer,,,go for f/a-18,,,f-16 is obsolete,,f-18 operating with mki and pak-fa will be extremely potent,,,pak-fa and su-30mki,will knock out enemy air defenses like fighter or SAM ,,SUPER HORNET WILL GO FOR STRIKE,,KICKING out high profile enemy military and political targets


saptarishi,

Has NATO invited India to join them?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 09 Sep 2009 12:03

If the worthy members who want us to join NATO take a hard look at US and western preferences,why is the US wanting to build a secret GITMO in Pak and not India? It is because Pak and the US have been in bed with each other for decades and whatever sultry,seductive ,sensual pleasures we might promise the US,they much prefer their favourite "rent-boy" Pak! In fact,the US and Pak take turns at scr**ing each other.Right now,one wonders who is actually being scr**d! Some say that it is really India at the receiving end of both the US and Pak,as though we were promised membership of the exclusive N-club are still waiting in the verandah,while our application is being scrutinised.It appears that the US wants us to sign the CTBT/NPT membership form before we are allowed into the hallowed halls of the N-club.Pak doen't have to worry about such membership because it has its own rogue club of memebrs with AQK as president.The US simply turns a blind eye to it and allows it to proliferate as much as it wants,but for India...!

The Brazilian pres's remarks bear close examination along with my earlier posts about F-18 costs for OZ and for the US.The aircraft is simply exorbitantly expensive,that too for its DNA.No wonder the IAF wants more far more capable SU-30MKIs!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 09 Sep 2009 12:17

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ex ... -in-p.html

Thats it.The P8I has been a waste of the taxpayers money, maybe the Indians will buy American maal with the money and do the patrolling for them too All those embedded sensors in the poseidon will transmit the data in real time to the American monitoring stations they wont need anyone inside to do the snooping inside India or in the neighbour hood patrol areas .. joking hope it is not true Those american 16 and 18 should not have been in the 'race' in the first place .. the Typhoon is more looking like the logical choice with an israeli AESA

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 09 Sep 2009 12:20

NRao wrote:
GeorgeWelch wrote:It's standard legalese to protect themselves from any liability for anything.

I'm sure the other manufacturers have similar wording, and if they don't, it's only because their lawyers aren't as good ;)

If you want to read a conspiracy into it, that's up to you.


(Besides it's not necessary for the function described because the US could easily claim that it's not malicious.)


True. And, Aroor seems to be crossing the line more often in the recent past.

But, on a slow day .....................................


I don't fully agree here. Why would deliberately adding malicious code NOT be considered a conspiracy? Din't the US do something similar for the BBJs for China? And when US considers it kosher to spy on its allies like Israel etc, why will it treat India any different? These things only strengthens my opinion to not go for US aircraft for MRCA. They simply cannot be trusted.

And it is the US which makes these intrusive inspections, not other countries. As has been reported in many papers earlier, India just makes a declaration that the weapons are being used for the purpose stated to other countries. And who knows what all the malicious code contains/does?

And note that it is not just Aroor, but actually navy officials whom he is quoting in that report.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vishnu » 09 Sep 2009 13:03

Hi there ... Just had a briefing from Gripen ... heres what they have to say ... there are so many posts that there may be a repeat of info .. so sorry for any repeat ...

* The Selex Vixen radar now goes by the name ES-05 Raven ... its being co-developed with Selex Galileo, Saab Microwave Systems and Saab Aerosystems as partners.
* The beam of the radar can be tracked 100 degrees on either side courtesy the swashplate setup. Two scenarios were showcased ... in one of them ... the Gripen goes evasive post launch while still being able to track the target when other jets would easily have broken lock.
* ECCM-A/A-A/G can all take place simultaneously courtesy the interleaved set up of the radar mated to the display.
* Radar is presently on the demonstrator rig and meets expectations.
* Radar will be flight-tested in last quarter of the year.
* Gripen C/D meets all RFP requirements other than range and AESA. Both these will be showcased in NG which will be flown here in March.
* Gripen IN has 16.5 tonne max take off weight.
* Max range in excess of 4000 kms.
* Turnaround in less than 10 minutes.
* Gripen C/D has cost per flight hour of less than $3000. Statistics based on Swedish Air Force experience.
* More than 50 per cent cheaper to own and operate over the life of the aircraft than twin engine competitors
* Substantial savings over the life of the aircraft compared to F-16 ... They gave a number here which I forget.
* Gripen NG has less than 35 per cent of American components onboard.
* IAF type conversions ahead of trials will take place in late November ...
* Trials in March.

Thanks
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior Anchor, NDTV

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 09 Sep 2009 13:04

Why the US is but a babe in the woods! They wouldn't ever do anything malicious like sabotage their export hardware.

When I had brought up the true story of the French compromising Exocet missiles sold to Argentinians by leaking their codes to the British during the Falklands War as a reason to be wary, most people on this forum laughed it off.

Its funny how history often tends to repeat itself.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vishnu » 09 Sep 2009 13:47

Oh .. one more thing ... they have done 10 supercruise flights at Mach 1.2 ... most (if not all) were with 4 air to air missiles.
They have also achieved a max speed of Mach 1.6 on the NG.

I think the main point that Gripen wants to stress is that India can be a part of the Gripen NG development project. There is huge potential in developing the platform. As an example ... the core avionics of the C/D are presently running on the NG rig at just 3 per cent of the capability of the system.

Thanks
Vishnu

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby AmitR » 09 Sep 2009 14:04

From Vishnu's post it is clear that there are many parts in the Gripen that are still under development and needs further testing. However, the specs are pretty impressive and looks like they have a very good package there.

I am thinking why don't we just buy the Gripen IN and then co-develop it as LCA MKII it will save a lot of time, cost and money.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 09 Sep 2009 14:09

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/09/ex ... -in-p.html

What if the same gets published in media... will it create any pressure on government to give complete details and justify the deal?

I wanted to use right to information act but defense deals are out of its purview.

BTW, the info in on shiv aroor's blog. does it mean it is already out to news channel?

-Nitin

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 09 Sep 2009 14:12

Tx Vishnu.The Gripen is certainly an impressive little Light-Weight bird with a big punch,punching above its weight competing with the other Middle-Weights.Had the LCA programme not been there,this would've been a favourite.For the sake of national prestige the GOI/MOD will not abandon the LCA and force the IAF to buy a few sqds when available.If it is known before the MMRCA decision is taken,that LCA MK-2 is going to be even further delayed,we may see the Gripen's chances dramatically improve.

The "Heavy-Weight" role is clearly being filled by the SU-30 series and assuming that the LCA arrives in some form or the other as the Light-Weight factor,the "Middle-Weight" will in all probability be a twin-engined bird that can carry a worthwhile payload deep into enemy territory.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vishnu » 09 Sep 2009 16:01

Hi there ... I have always been a fan of the LCA ... but I disagree with comparisons being made between the Gripen and the LCA. I would suggest we just accept the fact that the Gripen is in a very different league. They have 120,000 flight hours under their belt ... 200 planes delivered to the Swedish procuring agency ... the FMV ... and a 250 plane order book. The Swedes have been developing data links since the mid sixties ... they claim to be the best in the world. They also claim to be the best in the world in developing a man-machine interface. There are those who say the Gripen NG fits the IAF's original requirement best ... Whats more the Swedes ... as was stated today ... are entirely open to sharing their expertise in developing the LCA to the standard we expect of it. I don't think this should be viewed as an either this (LCA) or that (Gripen) case and from my conversations with the Air Force, they don't see it that way either. Many suggest the pragmatic way forward is to develop the LCA and buy the jet the Air Force feels best fits their MMRCA requirement. If the Gripen proves to be that ... then the LCA argument shouldn't come in the way ...

But ... as I see it ... there are a couple of issues here. For India to seriously consider the Gripen, there has to be a leap of faith ... a willingness to recognise that come March ... the Gripen NG will be at an advanced stage of development ... it will not be the finished product. The disadvantages here lie in concerns that the Swedes may fail to deliver the finished product the way they promise it. On the other hand, there is the advantage that India can be an active participant in co-developing this jet ... a fighter which the Swedish government has now promised to back till 2040 (In fact, this was something that came up in today's briefing).

Thanks
Vishnu

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 09 Sep 2009 16:26

True , all comparison between Gripen and LCA being equal equal is a myth , better to get rid of it.

LCA is currently in flight testing and has a long way to go for FOC , that would be its litmus test when IAF inducts in squadron service and all its operational kinks are resolved.

Gripen is an operational aircraft with production numbers running into 100's and its own share of export success.

But Gripen has one serious flaw , that is uses critical American component like engine , and it will be subject to us wishes and law , it is better to avoid product where America has a veto when there are other opportunities and options available.

Memories can be short , but those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dinesha » 09 Sep 2009 16:33

"The radar will come with its software source code."
Sweden's SAAB offers advanced radar with Gripen combat jet

"
In terms of costs, including the life cycle cost, the Gripen is 50 percent cheaper that the other single-engined aircraft (in the fray) and 25 percent cheaper that the double-engined aircraft (in contention)," the SAAB official pointed out. :?:
Last edited by dinesha on 09 Sep 2009 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vishnu » 09 Sep 2009 16:47

For what its worth ... the Gripen guys insist .. and I asked them this specifically ... that the F-414 engine is a direct purchase ... and will not be affected. Also ... American content on the NG is being brought down to below 35 per cent.

Sure .. we can think up a million conspiracy theories ... and I am well aware of how we didnt end up with the Viggen decades back ... but with the changed relationship ... I can't see the US pressuring us like this. Why would they ? They are so well established now in our market.

Also ... as far as the Elta 2052 is concerned ... I have a few pointers. I have it from very well placed sources that the radar is no where as developed as the Selex Vixen 1000. Whats more, Gripen have NOT been officially told by Elta that their product is not available any longer as an option on the Gripen. Finally, the agreement between SAAB and Selex dates back two years ... well before this article appeared on US interference.

To be sure ... I am not biased towards the Gripen ... I have had the opportunity to fly on 4 of the 6 types being offered with in-depth briefings from all these firms ... I just hope the IAF gets the jet they truly want. And I see no reason to doubt that the Gripen is right up there as a possible winner.

Cheers
Vishnu

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vishnu » 09 Sep 2009 16:53

Hi ... I was there at this briefing ... and the point mentioned in the IANS article ... "In terms of costs, including the life cycle cost, the Gripen is 50 percent cheaper that the other single-engined aircraft (in the fray) and 25 percent cheaper that the double-engined aircraft (in contention)," is not correct ...

I have clarified this ... and they seem to indicate that the NG will be ... all included ... more than 50 per cent cheaper than the two engined competitors.

Thanks
Last edited by Vishnu on 09 Sep 2009 17:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby rakall » 09 Sep 2009 16:58

Vishnu wrote:For what its worth ... the Gripen guys insist .. and I asked them this specifically ... that the F-414 engine is a direct purchase ... and will not be affected. Also ... American content on the NG is being brought down to below 35 per cent.

Sure .. we can think up a million conspiracy theories ... and I am well aware of how we didnt end up with the Viggen decades back ... but with the changed relationship ... I can't see the US pressuring us like this. Why would they ? They are so well established now in our market.

Also ... as far as the Elta 2052 is concerned ... I have a few pointers. I have it from very well placed sources that the radar is no where as developed as the Selex Vixen 1000. Whats more, Gripen have NOT been officially told by Elta that their product is not available any longer as an option on the Gripen. Finally, the agreement between SAAB and Selex dates back two years ... well before this article appeared on US interference.

To be sure ... I am not biased towards the Gripen ... I have had the opportunity to fly on 4 of the 6 types being offered with in-depth briefings from all these firms ... I just hope the IAF gets the jet they truly want. And I see no reason to doubt that the Gripen is right up there as a possible winner.

Cheers
Vishnu


If IAF sticks to DPP2008 and accordingly goes for the L1 bidder - Gripen has bright chances.. being the cheapest to procure & also the cheapest to operate..

However.. surely geo-politics play the part and that is where Gripen's weakest point is..

I just wish we go for anything other than Amreekhan.. with all the fuss things like EUMA, malicious codes etc - it is better to stay as immune as possible to any possible arm-twisting

abhiti
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby abhiti » 09 Sep 2009 17:09

Austin wrote:But Gripen has one serious flaw , that is uses critical American component like engine , and it will be subject to us wishes and law , it is better to avoid product where America has a veto when there are other opportunities and options available. Memories can be short , but those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it


Exactly true but it cuts two ways. Even Mig-35 has many flaw and it includes Gorshkov and Mig-29.

govardhanks
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Location: Earth

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby govardhanks » 09 Sep 2009 17:11

I think we should also stress among the MRCA contenders that we should get source code of all the software along with the a/c. This should be a strict criteria for selection.

Cheers 8)

sunny y
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sunny y » 09 Sep 2009 17:34

Hi Vishnu Sir.....

I have seen your videos on Gripen on youtube...fantastic & very informative.....those of you who haven't seen them yet...here are the links....

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pblzipUchcg
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9zn79EY ... re=related

Do you have any other such videos about your experience with other aircrafts ?
If yes, can you please upload them on you tube or provide the links if they already exist on you tube or any other site ??


Thanks

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16815
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 09 Sep 2009 17:35

Revisiting the Aroor blog, he states:

Malicious code, among other things, could include deliberately embedded bits of software designed to do one or many of a variety of things, which could include encrypted recording of platform usage information


As we post, just to be clear, it is Aroor's imagination about what "malicious" could/may be.

Is it possible? Yes, it is. Is it probable? Yes, it is.

Since India has not signed the EMU (yet) and the thrust is towards individual agreements there could be a lot of play in what it acceptable and what is not.




On the Grippen front, do we know if the Swedes manufacture the engines? Furthermore, it was my understanding that the Swedes made sure that the Grippen was not sanctionable by the US. As was the case with the Viggen.

dorai
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Posts: 136
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dorai » 09 Sep 2009 19:01

Since this matters to the MMRCA... "defense sources" in Brazil now claim that the Gripen was prefered by the FAB as most suitable for their airforce and Super Hornet in 2nd place. The Gripen was also prefered by the majority of industrial companies for technological partnerships. Also the French offer is 40% more expensive than both of the other two bidders.

But there's alot of other political factors that play in more and the FAB is still happy with Rafale (or any other of the 3) if that is the final choice.

So the SH and Gripen still looks to have made good mark with the FAB which can be interesting for the M-MRCA....

http://www.juridicobrasil.com.br/portal ... cia=434568
http://josiasdesouza.folha.blog.uol.com ... 10045644-0


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