MRCA News and Discussion

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putnanja
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 24 Nov 2009 05:45

Kartik wrote:yeah I heard that too, from another source who is pretty well connected. it seems that some electronics didn't particularly do well in the heat-soak tests. they actually got away easy. if they'd have done it in Nagpur's blistering heat in mid-summer (like they did for the IJT and LCA), they'd know what heat-soak in the Indian hinterland means. it gets close to 50 deg ambient on the tarmac. but the solution is simple. temporary shelters could do the trick.


IAF currently just covers the canopies to prevent the electronics inside from getting fried. Did they do the same to the SH too? Because if it was just due to canopies not being covered, temporary shelters will do the trick as it is almost equivalent. Otherwise, they would require temperature controlled hangars.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby suraj p » 24 Nov 2009 06:31

SH? === Super Hornet????????

they did not perform well in heat-soak conditions and that too in Nagpur ............
thats silly...

F/A18 are tested in Mojhave and the temp. goes beyond 50c easily...

IAF personnel had little worries during RedFlag exercises due to excessive heat...

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby enqyoob » 24 Nov 2009 07:26

Its hot and humid in India. Unlike Mojave.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 24 Nov 2009 08:22

As hot and humid as the Arabian Sea and equatorial areas ............... desk of USN carriers?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 24 Nov 2009 08:23

Time IAF built a few cow sheds on their properties.

Good camo for IAF sites too. Them Baburs cannot id such things for sure.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 24 Nov 2009 09:11

Goat sheds will be a better idea. The barber mijjiles will steer clear of them.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Nov 2009 10:46

BS has a report today on the search for an engine for the Tejas/LCA,nearing a decision.The two contenders,the GE-414 and EJ-200 are the contenders with details that the 414 still needs to be "tweaked" for extra power when compare with the EJ.During A-India at B'lore,the EJ was discreetly shown in a visual with a TVC option.I believe that this option will be offered for the LCA and would give it an extra advantage over the US engine.However,pressure from the O-Team with MMS an "honoured guest" right now,could still swing it for the US.Alternatively,the US could be given the Jaguar upgrade instead for Honywell engines against RR-another hotly contested deal,but as the report says,the winner of the engine deal will have an inside lane for the MMRCA contest.One must remember here that the MIG-35 also has a similar advantage as its engine too (TVC an option) is being built in India for the MIG-29 upgrades.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... nd/377460/

Decision likely before March 2010, price will determine winner.

- Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight
- US puts Lockheed off Tejas flight path

For two years, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) — the agency developing the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) — has searched for an engine to boost the performance of India’s homegrown fighter. With bids for two engines — the General Electric F-414, and the Eurojet EJ200 — submitted on October 12, Business Standard has learned that ADA will select one before March 2010.

The GE F-404, one of fighter history’s iconic engines, currently powers the Tejas. But its 82-85 kilonewtons (KN) of thrust does not provide the acceleration or the sustained turning ability needed by the Tejas in air-to-air combat. ADA wants the Tejas to have 90-95 KN of thrust, which both the EJ200 and the GE F-414 provide. And, so the F-404 will power only the first two Tejas squadrons; all subsequent LCAs, including the naval version, will fly with either the F-414 or the EJ200.

DRDO’s Chief Controller of Aeronautics, Dipankar Banerjee says, two crucial factors will determine the winner: which engine fits into the Tejas with minimal re-engineering; and which one works out cheaper (acquisition cost + operating cost).

The DRDO officer, who guides the Tejas programme, debunked the long-held belief that the Tejas would require major re-engineering for fitting the new engine. “We have evaluated both engines and we believe only minor changes will be needed in the fuselage of the Tejas”, said Banerjee. “Which engine is selected will be largely determined by its cost.”

Both engines, however, need minor design modifications by their vendors to meet the specific requirements of the Tejas. According to Banerjee, “The Eurofighter Typhoon is powered by two EJ200 engines, but the LCA just has a single engine. For safety reasons, it must have a re-ignition system to restart the engine automatically if it goes off in mid-flight.”

And since the selected engine will also power the naval Tejas, the EJ200 needs to be protected against the corrosive salt-water naval environment.

The EJ200’s rival, the GE F-414, has neither of these concerns; it already powers the single-engine Gripen fighter, as well as the F/A-18 Super Hornet, which the US Navy operates off aircraft carriers. But there are two other concerns over the F-414. Firstly, it needs to be tweaked to provide greater thrust during some periods of a flight, when it appears to deliver less power. And, since it is an American engine, export controls are potentially troublesome.

Eurojet, however, insists that re-ignite software is an integral part of the EJ200. Managing Director, Eurojet, Hartmut Tenter, explained to Business Standard, “If the EJ200 goes off in mid-flight, the aircraft decelerates sharply. The engine software recognises that and automatically initiates the re-ignite procedure. It’s automatic; the pilot has to do nothing.”

Both Eurojet and General Electric consider this engine contract as vital. The order for 99 engines (plus options for another 49) is worth an estimated US $750 million. But, far more importantly, both see this contract as a way of getting a foot in the door for the US $11 billion Medium Fighter contract. Eurojet EJ200 engines power the Eurofighter Typhoon, while GE F-414s power both the F/A-18 and the Gripen NG. Getting a contract for the engine is seen as a giant first step towards getting a contract for the aircraft as well. Fighter pilots say that a world-class engine makes a world-class fighter. Whenever two fighters face off in a dogfight, as pilots term an aerial duel, the one with the better engines almost always wins. In the old days, better engine power allowed a pilot to twist and turn sharply, to get behind the enemy, and then shoot him down with a burst of cannon fire.

Now, with missiles the primary air-to-air weapon, engine power is more important than ever. The enemy usually appears as a blip on the radar, which the pilot usually detects while “loitering” at low speeds to conserve fuel. He immediately guns his engine, accelerating hard towards the enemy, and launches his missile at nearly twice the speed of sound (Mach 2). As the missile screams towards the enemy fighter at around Mach 4, the pilot throws his fighter into a high-gravity U-turn to dodge the missile that his opponent would have launched by now. The pilot who can accelerate faster, launch first, and then turn away harder — in other words, the pilot with the more powerful engine is usually the one who comes home alive.


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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 24 Nov 2009 13:05

Rafale performing maneuvers in the Dubai air show:

[youtube]bkWQcUHuLYA&feature=player_embedded#[/youtube]

Typhoon doing the same:


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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 25 Nov 2009 01:05

SaiK wrote:i was googling for info on marinization of EJ200s, and the only thing it hit was Brits trying to come of JSF F35B project, and considering EF2K.. but the interesting thing I found from that article about canards:-

The MOD appears to be internally considering the implications of converting its planned Tranche 3 batch of 88 Eurofighter Typhoon’s in to a navalised “Sea Typhoon” variant suitable for operation from CVF. However the likely costs and difficulties can not be underestimated, expected modifications include changes of materials to reduce corrosion, the addition of an arrestor hook, a larger and thicker wing with power folding, and more powerful vectored thrust EJ200 engines. Even then, there would remain fundamental issues and risks such as the aircrafts canards restricting the pilots view during high angle of attack carrier landings.
http://frn.beedall.com/jca1-2.htm


so , sukhlaw is right from the sense, its expensive to have EJ200 marinized. but never know what is the deal after the product is ready, and when they want to create a bigger market, would have to come down on cost, and having a longer RoI, since order from India could span both MRCA and LCA, and its worth tucking the extra cost, to getting the market share.

shall take it MRCA thread



from the above article:- [24 November 2009 ]

While now a historical debate, it's still interesting to compare the approximate unarmed unit costs for the JCA contenders as being suggested in 2001. Derived partly from export prices offered in fighter competitions, in Year 2000 prices they were:

F-35 JSF - $50-60m depending on variant [DOD/MOD estimate]
Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon - $71-80m * [RAF estimate & Greek Fighter competition]
Dassault Rafale M - $60-70m [French Parliamentary Finance Committee estimate, offer to India :eek: , Greek fighter competition]
Boeing Super Hornet FA-18E - $65-75m [DoD estimates]
*A navalised Typhoon would reportedly have cost at least 25% extra, i.e. $89-100m.

Although these costs are significantly more than the basic configuration "fly-away" unit costs that are often and somewhat misleadingly quoted (e.g. as little as $40-50 million for Rafale) and presumably include a small profit for the manufacturer, they still exclude most research & development and in-service support costs. Development costs are high for the F-35 (for just the UK alone, approximately $3.3bn in total at 2001 prices), would have been significant for Sea Typhoon and substantial for a Anglo'ised Rafale. A Super Hornet could be bought nearly “off-the-shelf”. :!: {geo-political-costs?}
more costs details are available on the link.. for JSF.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 25 Nov 2009 01:12

suraj p wrote:SH? === Super Hornet????????

they did not perform well in heat-soak conditions and that too in Nagpur ............
thats silly...

F/A18 are tested in Mojhave and the temp. goes beyond 50c easily...

IAF personnel had little worries during RedFlag exercises due to excessive heat...


read carefully before giving us your opinion of whats silly. I said that IF they had tested them in Nagpur during peak summer, they'd have struggled. the actual heat-soak tests were done in Jaisalmer, that too during the relatively mild weather of August.

do you know what the SOP for the USN is for heat-exposure ?

and where on earth does IAF personnel with their Su-30MKIs come into the picture when we're discussing the MRCA trials in India ?! talk about going off on a tangent.. :roll:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 25 Nov 2009 01:14

enqyoob wrote:Its hot and humid in India. Unlike Mojave.


not necessarily. Jaisalmer is not the least bit humid. my own home town could have done with a little bit of humidity because it was baking hot and very very dry during summers. Nagpur would be the same because its not near the coastline. Its only in the South that humidity becomes a factor to be accounted for.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 25 Nov 2009 02:01

the most humid places are in kerala, and perhaps during hot summer we need to test the engines. greater than 50% should be enough to cause corrosion to jets. coastal regions are even worse.,, besides the thrust/pressure aspects for jet engine take off.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 25 Nov 2009 20:04

At this rate forget about the F-18SH!

From India Today,crossposted from the Indo-US thread.

Another sticking point is that despite several reminders US has refused to alter its entities list, or the black list that bans trade in sensitive technology for some Indian companies, including a dozen key government companies like Indian Space Research Organisation and Defence. This is despite the fact that the matter has been raised several times with the US as India is in dubious company of countries like North Korea, Pakistan and China that have a past track record of proliferation.

Then why India, is it a pressure tactic because all it is required is for the US President to issue an order to the US Department of Commerce which can remove these companies off the list. While the Prime Minister may be feeling good about getting to dine with Obama at his first state dinner, for the moment the strategic dimension of the relationship is on the backburner and for now it has become a relationship under tremendous strain.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Katare » 25 Nov 2009 22:11

Philip wrote:At this rate forget about the F-18SH!

From India Today,crossposted from the Indo-US thread.

Another sticking point is that despite several reminders US has refused to alter its entities list, or the black list that bans trade in sensitive technology for some Indian companies, including a dozen key government companies like Indian Space Research Organisation and Defence. This is despite the fact that the matter has been raised several times with the US as India is in dubious company of countries like North Korea, Pakistan and China that have a past track record of proliferation.

Then why India, is it a pressure tactic because all it is required is for the US President to issue an order to the US Department of Commerce which can remove these companies off the list. While the Prime Minister may be feeling good about getting to dine with Obama at his first state dinner, for the moment the strategic dimension of the relationship is on the backburner and for now it has become a relationship under tremendous strain.


India, US set to resolve n-deal problems in two weeks: PM

"We agreed on the early and full implementation of our civil nuclear cooperation agreement. This paves the way for transfers of high technology items to India," Singh said.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 26 Nov 2009 04:00

lets put it this way.. the abstract agreements clearly defines what concrete steps we can take.. we have left it at so abstract, that nothing concrete is imminent for high end advanced technology systems that India is seeking.

Most advanced systems are only given to poodling nations and spawned off countries. How in the world after the cold war, we can get going for everything under our terms, when unkill hyphenate with all kinds of relationship and geo-politics from his controls and management.

If SH or F16 is chosen, then IAF is pretty much becomes another poodle </ . >

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 26 Nov 2009 07:48

Katare wrote:
India, US set to resolve n-deal problems in two weeks: PM

"We agreed on the early and full implementation of our civil nuclear cooperation agreement. This paves the way for transfers of high technology items to India," Singh said.


In addition, the Obama admin is doing, what they call, a comprehensive eval of all things. I would not be surprised if they allow a lot more than what India expects. IMHO.

It is taking time, but I feel that is fine.

WRT the F-18 itself, Boeing seems to be doing things India would not expect, I would think.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby prashant_singhal » 26 Nov 2009 18:40

Hi All,
Is there any document or report which compare the capabilities of all MRCA fighters on "Enemy Radar suppression capabilities". Expecting SH to be the best in view of US has developed it for their advanced F-22, F-35. What about rafale? I am mainly looking for Advance comparision , basics i also know.

Thanks In advance
Prashant singhal

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Baldev » 26 Nov 2009 20:32

prashant_singhal wrote:Hi All,
Is there any document or report which compare the capabilities of all MRCA fighters on "Enemy Radar suppression capabilities". Expecting SH to be the best in view of US has developed it for their advanced F-22, F-35. What about rafale? I am mainly looking for Advance comparision , basics i also know.

Thanks In advance
Prashant singhal
out of AGM88/ASMP which one is superior?

ALE 99 pods are no why superior to the escort jammer built with AESA technology by THALES for rafale,m2000

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 27 Nov 2009 00:47

Baldev wrote: out of AGM88/ASMP which one is superior?


ASMP compared to the AGM88 to tell which one is supeior ?? the ASMP is a air-launched nuclear missile..whereas the AGM 88 HARM is an anti-radiation missile..whats there to compare between 2 missiles with such different missions ?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 27 Nov 2009 00:50

just a very interesting image of what the Super Hornet could've looked like, seen in this article from Flight International's archives..cross-posting from Keypub forums..certainly would've been a much better fighter than the Super Hornet currently is, thanks to the higher sweep delta (or cranked arrow as per the article) and the canards. I guess they figured that the USN didn't require those benefits and they could save on non-recurring engineering expenditure by keeping the same wing planform.

link

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Baldev » 27 Nov 2009 03:14

Kartik wrote:
Baldev wrote: out of AGM88/ASMP which one is superior?


ASMP compared to the AGM88 to tell which one is supeior ?? the ASMP is a air-launched nuclear missile..whereas the AGM 88 HARM is an anti-radiation missile..whats there to compare between 2 missiles with such different missions ?
since rafale has no other supersonic air to surface missile so its obvious ASMP can be used as anti radiation missile

and its not necessary that ASMP remains only neclear capable missile but the warhead can be replaced with conventional warhaed.

and the missile range definitely exceeds the range of agm88

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 27 Nov 2009 08:25

Baldev wrote:since rafale has no other supersonic air to surface missile so its obvious ASMP can be used as anti radiation missile

and its not necessary that ASMP remains only neclear capable missile but the warhead can be replaced with conventional warhaed.

and the missile range definitely exceeds the range of agm88


thats your logic ? that because it doesn't have a supersonic missile, the ASMP, designed specifically for the nuclear strike role, and not available for export to any nation, will be used for anti-radiation missions with the warhead replaced ? what source do you have ? I've never heard of the ASMP being used for something like taking out SAM sites..back it up with a source. AFAIK, the AASM will be used for anti-radiation missions.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Nov 2009 17:45

Take a look at the latest AWST pics of China's 5th-gen fighter,rumoured to be arriving as early as next year,10 years earlier than thought of by US experts and Def.Sec.Gates who made fun of the Chinese.Report in the Intl. thread.If true,then the arrival of the Chinese 5th-gen is yars ahead of even the Europeans who haven't even got an offical programme ready.The aircraft looks v.imprssive and if it arrives anywhere near the expected timeframe mentioned,will in the fullness of time,also be a poss. acquisition of China's all-weather friend,Pak.In the light of this,for the IAF to acquire for the MMRCA contest ancient albatrosses like th F-16 or F-18 would be an act of immense stupidity.It also brings into question the relevance of the late arrival of the 4th-gen light LCA a decade+ henc,when our enemies might be flying a vastly superior 5th-gen fighter.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 27 Nov 2009 17:56

Philip wrote:China's 5th-gen fighter,rumoured to be arriving as early as next year,10 years earlier than thought of by US experts.


I think...that would not be introduced with OPERATIONAL tag...!

but..yes I do agree that there is no point in pursing anything American....!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Jean_M » 27 Nov 2009 19:21

ASMP as an anti radiation missile... :D quite the opposite actually. By the way, any idea of the price tag ?
If you are looking for anti-radiation missiles for Rafale, look at Denel's catalogue. Denel is said to be on the verge of joining the MBDA consortium. There is also AASM, the 125kg version is said to have a range of 100km.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 27 Nov 2009 19:36

If this has not been posted before

FLIGHT TEST: Dassault Rafale - Rampant Rafale

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby johnny_m » 27 Nov 2009 23:08

Those who read the above post should also read this.

http://www.combataircraft.net/reports/rafale.php

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 28 Nov 2009 00:25

Engines are two Snecma M88-2E4s generating a combined 22,500lb (100kN) of thrust dry and 34,000lb in full afterburner.

vs.

Each EJ200: At its maximum dry thrust of 60kN (or 13,500lbf) the EJ200's SFC is in the order of 23g/kN.s. With reheat the engine delivers around 90-100kN (or 20,250-22,500lbf) of thrust with an SFC of some 49g/kN.s.


q: what would be combined dry and wet thrust for EJs?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Anoop. A. » 28 Nov 2009 02:08

Austin wrote:If this has not been posted before
FLIGHT TEST: Dassault Rafale - Rampant Rafale

johnny_m wrote:Those who read the above post should also read this.
http://www.combataircraft.net/reports/rafale.php

lol :lol:

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby dorai » 28 Nov 2009 14:26

Notice a 5th gen design in Saab presentation...

27 November 2009
Saab's view on technology transfer, 8ak interviews Pär Rohman

27 Nov 2009 8ak: With the amendments to DPP 2008 made this November the priority of the nation has moved away from research to transfer of technology. This is one area where European companies can stand a chance to win against U.S. companies who are disadvantaged by their country’s stringent export control and monitoring restrictions.

Pär Rohman, Vice President, Industrial Cooperation, Saab was in India for the CII/CAPS Seminar on Energising Indian Aerospace on Nov 19 and made a presentation (download) on transfer of technology. Manu Sood, Editor, 8ak had the opportunity to interview him.

Image

8ak: India has had a lot of problems with ToT in the past. How can Saab help address these issues?
Rohman: The main problems India had are a foreign country’s government intervening to deny access to technologies, the vendor’s reluctance to part with technology fearing cannibalisation and the inability to absorb technology. Saab has a different approach based on long-term partnership and mutual growth. Saab has a proven model that enables the receiver to utilize and apply the technologies transferred. This means that it involves much more than just “technical information”.


With the Swedish Prime Minister and defence delegation’s visit there has been an inter-government commitment to partner with Indian defence and neither country is bound by a third country’s dictats. In terms of ToT, Saab’s approach is unique. We don’t just give away the technology, we partner with you to build on and further develop in collaboration right from the start. This will give the Indian firm the ability to maintain and modify the system.

8ak: What is in it for Saab?
Rohman: Your recent article mentioned the Swedish minister suggesting that Sweden is looking at India not as a buyer but as a long term partner and the same is true for Saab. We believe the relationship will be for mutual benefit. So while we transfer technology, we gain new knowledge in the process and at the same time benefit from India’s engineering & software expertise and low operating costs. This will help Saab further develop the products and jointly market it globally for export.

8ak: Have you successfully implemented such programs in other countries?
Rohman: Yes. For the Gripen alone, we have successful offset programs in e.g Hungary and South Africa.

8ak: Do you have a preference for public or private sector in terms of ToT?
Rohman: We have relations with the major Indian DPSUs, so will do as directed by the terms of the RFP.

At the seminar, a question raised was lessons India should learn from the Embraer’s success. My view is that it proves privatisation works but requires long-term, government support. If you look around globally, all major successful companies have transformed themselves in to systems integrators. There are significant lessons for India.

8ak: What are the problems that Saab faces in India in terms of ToT?
Rohman: The biggest problem is FIPB’s 26% cap on FDI which is discriminatory and adds to the country risk. As benchmark, 2 countries with successful defence programs Brazil and Dubai both have a much higher 49% cap. At 26% the best foreign companies will either not bid or be in a position where they are forced to part with technologies. Neither of these have worked for India in the past.


http://www.8ak.in/8ak_india_defence_new ... ohman.html
http://www.8ak.in/documents/SAAB%20CII% ... 091119.pdf

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 28 Nov 2009 23:04

A question to tje learned hawa-bahadurs of BRF:

How rational is choice of LCA as a fighter for future Aircraft Carrier of IN? The reason I ask is the range and payload capability of the aircraft versus something like MiG-29? Is the loiter time for CAP and combat radius for strike requisite?

While I understand that LCA is improvement over Harriers but is an a/c like MiG-29? and are we looking at a mix complement of LCA and Mig-29 for the ADC?

Link to earlier threads or gyaan on this topic will be greatly appreciated.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 28 Nov 2009 23:10

take it to the LCA thread and I'll answer you there ?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 29 Nov 2009 00:23

Rahul M wrote:take it to the LCA thread and I'll answer you there ?


OK.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 01 Dec 2009 07:45

WRT the MRCA we talk about AESA radar code, check this out:

Singh’s nuke gamble II - PM leads effort to get India a place in nuclear club

As of now, it is unlikely that either the US or China will support the idea of amending the NPT.

However, if the idea gains momentum, India will use its plans to buy 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA), the biggest military aviation deal in the history of mankind, to woo key signatories to the NPT.

There are six contenders for the MRCA deal, including companies from France, Russia and the US. If the Obama administration wants to find the big-ticket item in its ongoing search for catapulting Indo-US relations, Bush-style, support for an NPT amendment is just what it could hit on.

But Barack Obama is expected to face stiff opposition to an amendment to the NPT — even if he were to support it — from America’s non-proliferation lobby. Besides, adding one more nuclear weapons state to a treaty that was supposed to curb proliferation may not sit well with Obama’s ambitious plan to rid the world of nuclear weapons.


Bigger fish to fry, eh?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby sumshyam » 01 Dec 2009 08:03

NRao wrote:WRT the MRCA we talk about AESA radar code, check this out:

Singh’s nuke gamble II - PM leads effort to get India a place in nuclear club

However, if the idea gains momentum, India will use its plans to buy 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA), the biggest military aviation deal in the history of mankind, to woo key signatories to the NPT.


Bigger fish to fry, eh?


I would call it a better politics and much needed stance by Indian Govt.

kit
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 01 Dec 2009 11:52

sumshyam wrote:
NRao wrote:WRT the MRCA we talk about AESA radar code, check this out:

Singh’s nuke gamble II - PM leads effort to get India a place in nuclear club

However, if the idea gains momentum, India will use its plans to buy 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA), the biggest military aviation deal in the history of mankind, to woo key signatories to the NPT.


Bigger fish to fry, eh?


I would call it a better politics and much needed stance by Indian Govt.


Risky Gambit BUT if done it would be nothing short of a coup in the Global pecking order ! America should go along with India on this unless it wants to regret big time with a belligerent Panda in Asia that would soon be breathing by its neck in Latin America.This probably is big time geopolitics .. question is whether America is short sighted or has good strategic sense !

venkat_r
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby venkat_r » 01 Dec 2009 12:14

For US to do that would defnitely have all my votes for FA18 for sure. It is not easy for Obama to do such a thing, considering his stance in general and the Lobby in the US agianst proliferation. Though US aid to Pakistan might not raise many eyebrows even in this economy, any nuke discussions would invite a lot of attention, especially owing to the experience that most baby boomers have had since their school years. Not impossible, but a very steep mountain.

I will even vote for the 200 FA18, if this goes through.

kit
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 01 Dec 2009 15:16

Its not impossible.If the nuclear deal can go through so can this.The American public just need a good reason to digest this thats all.How about a new strategic partnership ? Lets see America needs the Indian market now more than ever,especially since the dollar value is coming down American products are definitely more attractive.The economic downturn can be turned into a very pragmatic reason for America to better integrate the Indian economy to its own, that would surely be one of the most symbiotic and enduring relationships ever to happen.There should be just a willingness on the part of both governments to keep a open mind across party lines.It happened with Germany,with Japan both countries which fought wars against America.Now India which all along had the same democratic principles that America was founded on is the only true Nation that can embody its spirit.Lets all hope and pray that MMS succeed in his endeavor and take his place in history as the architect of a truly emergent India.The way I see all this and much more can happen.It is in American interests as much as India s. India is going to take Britain s place in the new century as America s foremost ally.

yossarian
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby yossarian » 01 Dec 2009 15:32

India is going to take Britain s place in the new century as America s foremost ally.



Ha ha ha :rotfl: and you are proud of that? I mean I love the bargains we may get too, but to be an ally is something much more than we asked for or we would even like. Being an ally of US would mean letting go of independent ambitions to be a regional power and play surrogate to US Foreign policy. Careful what you wish for... you just might get it...

kit
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 01 Dec 2009 18:10

I think it is a rather pragmatic approach to realities.Being a heterogenous society with different languages and cultures it is not possible for India to toe any country s line politically, it would probably be impossible anyway but economically and culturally India would probably be in sync with the americans more than any other country.PRC itself achieved its status because of what Nixon started many years ago as a bulwark against the soviets.India needs technology for its development across all the sectors.America needs new markets for its products and services.It promises to be a symbiotic relationship.And then there is China.It is already 3 times Indias size economically and militarily.It is good sense to build alliances and start to think about realistically why India is not where it thinks should have been.India would do well to emulate China in a lot of respects.


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