MRCA News and Discussion

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Singha
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 23 Jan 2010 00:35

relax. the ambi was just trying to soothe his hosts. he wont be privy to the IAF assessment reports. afaik rafale, gripen and ef are still to be field tested in india while f16 and f18 are done. I have a feeling the french will pull out, citing monetary lack of resources to fly in a pair to india.

SaiK
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2010 00:41

you see, the khans won't pit raptor against rafale/ef2k.

negi
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby negi » 23 Jan 2010 00:46

Poor chaps from EF consortium don't know what they are up against :mrgreen: ; the ones who will be patient enough to bare with the MoD's shenanigans will have the last laugh for they are gonna make a lot more money than expected , cost overruns ,drafting goof ups and other abstract areas like ToT and stuff will be used to milk the GOI .
CAG as usual will come out with a report a few years later complaining about crores wasted due to obvious reasons.

SaiK
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2010 00:52

^^ is it not this is exactly we want to avoid every time we draft newer requirements and push for RFIs. RTI act must be enacted to know the details of past order, for the current RFI, so that we don't repeat mistakes.

I hope we don't mess up our ToT details, schedule, delivery plan and life cycle cost, in clear texts.

Cybaru
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 23 Jan 2010 01:57

Singha wrote:relax. the ambi was just trying to soothe his hosts. he wont be privy to the IAF assessment reports. afaik rafale, gripen and ef are still to be field tested in india while f16 and f18 are done. I have a feeling the french will pull out, citing monetary lack of resources to fly in a pair to india.


I think the rafales were sighted some time ago in India.. So may not pull out...

Cain Marko
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Jan 2010 02:05

Rafale certainly did its dance in the skies over b'lore, Jaisalmer and Leh circa october, so did the fulcrum.


Btw, credits to Arthuro (who I think posts here and at AFM)
Some analysts still believe that Boeing is in the lead for the MRCA, it better be with EPE engines :evil:

http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

Could have some merit, considering the somewhat lackadaisical approach taken by the russkis and the baksheesh given via extra 29ks and probly MKIs as well.

I think the final shootout will be between the Rafale/EF2K and the Shornet OR Gripen Vs. Solah.

CM.
Last edited by Cain Marko on 23 Jan 2010 02:14, edited 2 times in total.

johnny_m
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby johnny_m » 23 Jan 2010 02:11

you see, the khans won't pit raptor against rafale/ef2k.


Actually they have and Rafale guys were happy they were only beaten once out of six engagements (they never beat raptor however)

EF2K is a bit more murky but we have EF exchange pilots flying the Raptor and saying nothing comes close to it.

MarcH
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby MarcH » 23 Jan 2010 02:28

@Kartik; I disagree with some parts of your post.
When the US became aware of Pakistani modifactions of their Vipers they stopped the delivery of already paid for airframes, as well as the supply with spare parts. When Bush Jr. decided Pakistan would be useful for the Afganistan campaign, they where about to retire the complete F-16 fleet.
Without the war in Afganistan the complete Pakistani F-16 fleet would be unserivicable now.
Contrary to your believe, this example shows exactly how important it is to have the support of the supplier for such a modification.
Next is your comment about the a2g capabilities of the EF2K. Especially your comparison to the MiG-29 is lacking. While the MiG-29A was only equipped with iron bombs and rocket pods, and never intended for a2g missions, the German airforce just recently started to equip it's first fighter bomber wing with the type.
It is meant to be multirole, and in my opinion a damn tough target to intercept, with it's tendency for going supersonic even with 3 droptanks and the quite capable ECM suite.
@2 EF winning over 8 F-15-well they said they were in attacking role. So 8 F-15 low at fuel and probably with higher weapon load. I must say I'm really surprised they didn't get all 8 of them. :wink:

Kartik
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 23 Jan 2010 03:49

johnny_m wrote:No its actually a book not an article. Its a Janes Publication by Jon Lake.

Code: Select all

http://rapidshare.com/files/157405382/How_to_Fly_and_Fight_in_the_Mikoyan_Mig-29_Fulcrum.rar


how do you know what I've read ?!

THIS ARTICLE is the one that I was referring to. I've seen discussions based on this article in other forums as well.

shukla
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shukla » 23 Jan 2010 03:59


nachiket
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 23 Jan 2010 04:01

shukla wrote:EUROFIGHTER likely to win?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6 ... arketsNews


You know you could have atleast read this page completely before posting something. The news has been posted a few posts above yours.

NRao
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jan 2010 04:27

CM,

Thanks for that podcast. As suspected Typhoon is witnessing cutbacks - and, I bet this will only increase. Rafale is too expensive (nothing new there). And, Gripen may be out for good.

Stated this before. Outside the F-18 (and may be the F-16 too), the others that do not get a nod from India (and in some cases from Brazil) will pretty much die a natural death.

I fully expect the Rafale and Gripen to be on their last versions. So too the Typhoon after their Tranche 3 - IF that too survives full orders.

Let us see what happens.

SaiK
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2010 04:32

hindu wrote:“Future wars are likely to be short, crisp and intense. Hence logistics and inventory management become crucial as well as critical,” the Air Chief Marshal pointed out.

“There are a number of areas wherein we lack industrial base and simply do not possess the requisite capabilities. We have to accept that we cannot develop capabilities in each and every field.”

“We must therefore identify core technologies which have a promise of maximum potential in indigenisation and pursue them vigorously. Some of these areas, in my view, are critical areas like avionics, simulation, electronic warfare, communication and so on. It is imperative that we identify emerging technologies and concentrate on developing them. We should develop niche capabilities in specific spheres,” Air Chief Marshal said.

To DRDO:-
“In this collaborative effort, we believe that the user must be the captain,” Air Chief Marshal made it clear.


HAL is now thinking of extending its footprint in the operations at the Squadron level.


So HAL, going to take bit part in logistics and operations - maintenance of assets.

NRao
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jan 2010 04:37

supply chain too.

SaiK
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2010 04:49

supply chain could be tricky... unless, it is only inventory management (not transportation). imho, IAF has to handle the logistic transport.

NRao
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jan 2010 08:29

For building the plane and then spares, etc. Anything associated with the plane (if it involves food for pilots, so be it).

Austin
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Jan 2010 10:24

shukla wrote:EUROFIGHTER likely to win?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6 ... arketsNews


A Europe win in MMRCA is the most likely logical conclusion , as this will not cause much heartburn in Kremlin and Washington for loosing a big deal and put relations in sour.

It is also a safe choice politically and militarily to go for and will keep IAF happy.

While US and Russia would likely win other small and big deal and keep the ball rolling.

Ajay K
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Ajay K » 23 Jan 2010 10:39

Folks, the irony remains that the armed forces will never get the best in class weapon systems. Its the babu's choice which the country has to reconcile with.

Austin
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Jan 2010 10:51

Well Arms deal is never about best in class weapons , its always about the best overall deal and what we can afford.

SaiK
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2010 11:02

well that I see it as a sad state of affairs that babooze have to take this decision. well, its their choice if it is, then it was our choice to elect them in the first place.

we are driven by human politics rather than requirement and process politics. The faster we are policy driven rather baboo driven, the better would be our defence and security setup.

again our choice. /sorry OT.

SSridhar
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 23 Jan 2010 13:33

Well past its age. Post away in the new incarnation please.


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