Indian Space Program Discussion

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 25 Feb 2013 23:00

15 or more launches is possible if you include sounding rocket experiments etc. I will be happy with 6-7 a year for the next 5 years and then ramping it to 10 a year. 1 GSLV-III, 2-GSLV-II and 3-4 PSLV should be doable by ISRO.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby veerav » 25 Feb 2013 23:41

It looks like only one of the three strapons was ignited before the core Stage-1 started. the fourth strap on might have ignited too but it was no visible. Makes sense since the total payload is not that large. Any other thoughts?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Feb 2013 00:04

^^^Can't tell, all of them appear to have ignited.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby veerav » 26 Feb 2013 00:08

The marking on the strapons are different; The one that got ignited was 'RED' and the other two which are visbile are 'black/white checkered' which could mean that they might be dummies but were there for blanancing....

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Feb 2013 00:10

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Thanks, but spaceref.ca and SpaceFlightNow.com are not sites the average person is going to see today! They will see "Indian doctor performs sex selection test to screen female births" No more from me on this!


Does anyone care about these countries? Australia/Canada/NZ or even UK? Neither has the capability to support a space program and will simply look up to US for foreign policy directives and their satellite/space needs? Why deal with the lapdog when you can deal with the master. Are you upset if trinidad and tobago, laos, niger or somalia did not report the space launch?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Indranil » 26 Feb 2013 00:13


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Sridhar » 26 Feb 2013 01:07

This was the PSLV-CA version, which does not have any strap on motors. The motors that ignited a couple of seconds before the ignition of the first stage were reaction control thrusters, small motors that are used for course correction of the vehicle so that it stays on its pre-designated path.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby akashganga » 26 Feb 2013 01:57


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby TSJones » 26 Feb 2013 02:03

Bheeshma wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:Thanks, but spaceref.ca and SpaceFlightNow.com are not sites the average person is going to see today! They will see "Indian doctor performs sex selection test to screen female births" No more from me on this!


Does anyone care about these countries? Australia/Canada/NZ or even UK? Neither has the capability to support a space program and will simply look up to US for foreign policy directives and their satellite/space needs? Why deal with the lapdog when you can deal with the master. Are you upset if trinidad and tobago, laos, niger or somalia did not report the space launch?


They are however, paying customers. India isn't competing against the US, in the long run it is competing against Space X, Sierra Nevada, Blue Origin, Boeing and LockMart. All of them for-profit coporations. True, right now they are fighting for NASA business but Space X has already landed a nice foreign contract. To a certain extent you have to think about customer relations.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Feb 2013 02:58

When it comes to money, all of them will see the light of the day and go with the best that is available. If SpaceX or Sierra Nevada do well then good for them . No reason for ISRO to change their goals and go on a PR blitz. ISRO knows its priorities and need to work on meeting those goals.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby harbans » 26 Feb 2013 03:42


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Lilo » 26 Feb 2013 06:02

Congrats ISRO.

I have a noob question ..
AFAIK PSLV is a relatively low cost vehicle (90 crore rupees), why cant ISRO attempt another Chandrayan with PSLV say Chandrayan 1b and put some sats and sensors continuously monitoring the moon ?
We may even attempt a cushioned landing of a set of sensors over the moon's surface in the vicinity of chandrayan 2 's rover landing site.

The original Chandrayan went dead after 300 days and was actually supposed to operate for 3 years - yet even launched today chandrayan 1b will generate 3 years of data in prep for chandrayan 2 especially on prolonged solar environment around moon and may help ISRO develop more failsafe equipment both for moon orbit and moon surface .

Also is there any reason for russian withdrawal from chandrayan 2 esp regarding their rover ?
their phobos grunt failed in the earths orbit itself and that has nothing to do with their rover - so i dont really get why they wanted to withdraw their rover

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby arun » 26 Feb 2013 07:21

A pinhead sized PSLV C-20 photographed at high altitude leaving a beautiful contrail in a clear blue sky:

Clicky

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 26 Feb 2013 08:17

Sridhar wrote:This was the PSLV-CA version, which does not have any strap on motors. The motors that ignited a couple of seconds before the ignition of the first stage were reaction control thrusters, small motors that are used for course correction of the vehicle so that it stays on its pre-designated path.


Yes, and those are quite distinct from the SITVC tanks that look like 'strap-ons', right?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby shiv » 26 Feb 2013 09:43

indranilroy wrote:

8) Anyone notice the stereo sound?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby chiragAS » 26 Feb 2013 12:37

Also is there any reason for russian withdrawal from chandrayan 2 esp regarding their rover ?
their phobos grunt failed in the earths orbit itself and that has nothing to do with their rover - so i dont really get why they wanted to withdraw their rover


AFAIK Weight issues. both India and Russia wanted a rover. dupicating efforts.
Then finally ISRO decided that it will only go by its own rover and use a Russian Lander.
After Phobos grunt failed. russians have decided to review everything (probably budget issues).
ISRO doesn't want to further delay.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby mody » 26 Feb 2013 12:48

As per the link of ZEE news below, there are 10 launches planned for this year by ISRO.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19926

Anyone know which are the other launches planned for this year are going to be?

Also, as per WiKi, a high performance variant of the PSLV, PSLV-HP was to be developed. This is what is given in WiKi:
PSLV-HP (Under development / Proposed)
As reported on the website of The New Indian Express newspaper (April 26, 2007), PSLV project director N Narayanamoorthy spoke of another version being planned called the PSLV-HP, standing for ‘high performance.’ It will have improved strap-ons motors,[6] and the payload capability will be raised to 2000 kg.[6] The HP version will be used to launch a constellation of seven navigation satellites between 2010 and 2012. Among other things, the efficiency of the stage 4 engine will be improved in this version.

Any news whether this is going to be done or is in the works?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby pankajs » 26 Feb 2013 13:05

Congrats ISRO.

A rather detailed article on the latest PSLV mission and its payloads @ http://www.nasaspaceflight.com

Indian PSLV successfully lofts multiple satellites

Image
At the end of powered flight the upper stage yawed to an orientation 20 degrees off the axis of flight, and thirty seven seconds later, SARAL separated from the carrier rocket.

The upper stage then performed another yaw manoeuvre, to five degrees off-axis in the opposite direction, and jettisoned the upper portion of the Dual Launch Adaptor, or DLA-U, atop which SARAL was mounted. This separation will occurred 30 seconds after SARAL separated.

The fourth stage then yawed a further 20 degrees in the same direction, and 30 seconds after the adaptor separated, Sapphire was deployed. NEOSSat separated 25 seconds later, the rocket first having yawed another 10 degrees off the line of flight.

Both of these satellites were located underneath the Dual Launch Adaptor, and separated by use of IBL-298 mechanisms.

After NEOSSat separates, the upper stage then yawed through a further 48 degrees away from the axis of flight, and rolled 40 degrees. AAUSAT then separated fifty seconds after NEOSSat, and its separation was followed by another 40 degrees of yaw.

TUGSAT-1 separated 40 seconds after AAUSAT-2, followed 20 seconds later by UniBRITE. Between these two separation events, the upper stage performed a 20 degree roll manoeuvre.

The three NLS satellites used the XPOD separation mechanisms for deployment, and were attached to the sides of the fourth stage; AAUSAT and TUGSAT on one side, and UniBRITE on the other.

Following the separation of UniBRITE, the rocket added a further ten degrees of yaw, and roll through 30.

The final payload, STRaND-1, separated 30 seconds after UniBRITE, using an ISIPOD deployment system. It was mounted on the same side of the fourth stage as UniBRITE.

Once all payloads separated, the fourth stage yawed a further 60 degrees in the same direction, and passivation began 430 seconds after powered flight ended.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby varunalh » 26 Feb 2013 13:08

Here is the link from isro site which give info on planned future missions Clicky

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby pankajs » 26 Feb 2013 13:10

PSLV C20 – SARAL, another Dog-Leg
The work will be done by the PSLV second stage causing the ground track to bend and trace an arc around the island of Sri Lanka before the third and fourth stages take the payload stack into sun-synchronous orbit.

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Hiten » 26 Feb 2013 13:16

The raw almost un-edited footage from much before the launch. Can hear the periodic radio chatter of the technicians in-charge of the launch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZULmt9KH3Cw

President sahib spoke so much, the Mission directors & other others got no chance to do so.

Hope to see them beaming again, this time wearing a slightly differently stenciled LAb coat - May is the month

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby pankajs » 26 Feb 2013 13:21

Apologies if this has been posted before.

ISRO's 2nd space port to be a ‘polar shift'?
The national space agency may be planning to separate its two satellite launchers fully or partially and move some or all polar or PSLV launches to a new second site when — or if — it happens in the coming years.
Mr M.C. Dathan, Director of SDSC, told Business Line, “Theoretically, if we go slightly towards the North (of Sriharikota) there will be an advantage of steering the polar launcher. We can get a payload benefit (or capability to lift an additional) 300 kg or so.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby juvva » 26 Feb 2013 16:25

PSLV launches are getting routine for even us jingos @ BR.

AFAIK this is the first launch, without a dedicated thread for the launch.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby vina » 26 Feb 2013 16:56

pankajs wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before.

ISRO's 2nd space port to be a ‘polar shift'?


Good. We had discussed this earlier . Rather than a brand new one, instead of Balasore, maybe the VSSC centre at Thumba could be considered. It is ideal I would think, but then Kerala is thickly populated and we might not be able to get enough land to ensure range safety around Thumba.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 27 Feb 2013 06:16

Guess this is the STRaND sat from United Kingdom launched in the recent PSLV mission

Smartphone sent into space from India to see if screams can be heard

A smartphone has been sent into the Earth’s orbit from India by a team of researchers from the University of Surrey.

They hope to use a purpose-built app to test the theory, immortalised in the film ‘Alien’, that “in space no-one can hear you scream.

The phone will play out several of the screams submitted by people online, the BBC reported.

The test will monitor the durability of standard commercial components in space.

It will also test two new innovative propulsion systems.

The first - named Warp Drive (Water Alcohol Resisto-jet Propulsion De-orbit Re-entry Velocity Experiment) - uses the ejection of a water-alcohol mixture to provide thrust.

The second technology is pulsed plasma thrusters. These use an electric current to heat and evaporate a material, producing a charged gas that can then be accelerated in one direction in a magnetic field to push the satellite in the other direction.

The mission will see the so-called “smartphone-sat” - a world first - orbit the Earth for six months.

Weighing 4.3 kg (9.5lbs) and measuring 10cm by 30cm (4in by 12in), the satellite has been developed by the University of Surrey’s Space Centre (SSC) and Surrey Satellite Technology (SSTL).


“This mission is a fantastic achievement and a great tribute to the hard work of the engineers involved,” Sir Martin Sweeting, director of SSC, and also executive chairman of SSTL said.

At first, the Strand-1 satellite will be controlled by a standard onboard computer, but in phase two of the mission, a Google Nexus phone will take the reins - equipped with a number of special apps.

One of them, iTesa, is to record the magnitude of the magnetic field around the phone during orbit.

The 360 app will take pictures using the phone’s built-in five megapixel camera, and will act as a method of establishing the satellite’s position.

Images captured by the app will be posted on Facebook.

The Scream in Space app, developed by Cambridge University Space Flight, makes use of several screams that were submitted by visitors to the project’s website.

At various points, the app will play videos of the screams and monitor if the phone’s onboard speaker picks up the noise.

The screams set for intergalactic broadcast include this ear-busting effort from Year 6 at Chudleigh CE Community Primacy School and this very dramatic “nooooooo!” from Richard Barrington.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby vsunder » 27 Feb 2013 07:58

Current issue of Current Science has several articles on Risat and C-19 and the upcoming Astrosat mission, telescope on a satellite.

http://www.currentscience.ac.in/

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Neela » 27 Feb 2013 11:13

pankajs wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before.

ISRO's 2nd space port to be a ‘polar shift'?
The national space agency may be planning to separate its two satellite launchers fully or partially and move some or all polar or PSLV launches to a new second site when — or if — it happens in the coming years.
Mr M.C. Dathan, Director of SDSC, told Business Line, “Theoretically, if we go slightly towards the North (of Sriharikota) there will be an advantage of steering the polar launcher. We can get a payload benefit (or capability to lift an additional) 300 kg or so.



Does anyone know how much India charges per kilogram?
That 300kg advantage translates to about 300x$7000 or $2million extra per launch if we useSpaceX's metric here
Indian costs are probably not that high. With PSLV's unmatched track record, the need to unburden SHAR , with more Asian and African countries wanting to launch satellites, this makes very good business sense no?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 11:25

TSJones wrote:They are however, paying customers. India isn't competing against the US, in the long run it is competing against Space X, Sierra Nevada, Blue Origin, Boeing and LockMart. All of them for-profit coporations. True, right now they are fighting for NASA business but Space X has already landed a nice foreign contract. To a certain extent you have to think about customer relations.


ToesJi,

Why are you bothered about ISRO's customer relations and losing business to SpaceX etc.... particularly when SpaceX is heavily subsidized by the COTS program and all of NASAs launch facilities, rocket technology etc is ready to be exploited by SpaceX etc for a song ... Let Musk build a non-subsidized viable model and then you can maybe complain. Till then you should be complaining how your tax dollars are working.

So what if ISRO is reduced to launch only small Injun satellites and SDRE gaganviharins ... it is anyway barely able to keep up with launch orders from India itself anyway.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 11:26

TSJones wrote:... but someone should feature India's projects in this area. That was my point.


Why do not you contribute? We are like this only - left admiring ISRO's shiny website : www.isro.org

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 11:44

Lilo wrote:I have a noob question ..
AFAIK PSLV is a relatively low cost vehicle (90 crore rupees), why cant ISRO attempt another Chandrayan with PSLV say Chandrayan 1b and put some sats and sensors continuously monitoring the moon ?
We may even attempt a cushioned landing of a set of sensors over the moon's surface in the vicinity of chandrayan 2 's rover landing site.

The original Chandrayan went dead after 300 days and was actually supposed to operate for 3 years - yet even launched today chandrayan 1b will generate 3 years of data in prep for chandrayan 2 especially on prolonged solar environment around moon and may help ISRO develop more failsafe equipment both for moon orbit and moon surface .

Also is there any reason for russian withdrawal from chandrayan 2 esp regarding their rover ?
their phobos grunt failed in the earths orbit itself and that has nothing to do with their rover - so i dont really get why they wanted to withdraw their rover


Lilo ji, you are not raising one question but bunch of questions. Hopefully the following should be addressed:

1. When launching projects like Chandrayaan or Mangalyaan, it is not just assemble a "satellite" and shoot into space to earn bragging rights. That is what people who occupy TAR do. All this missions are multi-year missions where a small core team has to be dedicated and sustained and during events the team grows (for example when Chandrayan finds water) and then again goes into a lean phase where the massive amount of data is being processed, discussed, debated and then published. It takes multi-year, diverse team time commitment. Even if there is a budget to spare, you may not find the right team. So it is not simply assembly and shooting it up.

2. Is data from Chandrayaan-1 already well understood? What is the mission goals for Chandrayaan-1b and what data can be used from C-1 for C-1b? If the mission is delayed by say 2 years, then can C-1b morph into C-2? Like the IAF now wanting LCA-MkII when all they needed was a Mig-21 replacement? Glad that ISRO itself is a consumer, but then the PMO may do a budget cut nautanki for Jean-Druize's pet project - what about that?

2b. Communication bandwidth. Does the deep space network has the bandwidth to manage communications with all this satellites being sent into deep space missions?

3. Russians are re-assembling their team and concentrating resources where they think they can get most bang for the buck. Why help SDRE nation with rover then? It has been there and done that by the Russians. Why not try to go to Mars?

4. The order book for PSLV is full. If ISRO launches one PSLV a week (52 launches), it will still not suffice. ISRO has to launch weather monitoring satellites, IRNSS satellites, communication satellites, other payloads (like RISATs) and still allow for other countries to piggy back on its launch services (like Israel). Maybe VSSC is not able to crank out satellites fast enough even if PSLV launches are routine. Could it be a chicken-egg problem?

Should not ISRO concentrate on GSLV Mk III, SRE, Human spaceflight and TSTO instead? And still have to deal with Maun Maun Sigh? Imagine going to PMO for your science proposal and then have to answer Jean Druze's roti vs. ghee argument?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 27 Feb 2013 12:07

Bengaluru students track UK-built satellite - ToI
Some 90 minutes after the launch of Indo-French satellite Saral at 6.01pm on Monday, Bangalore-based Nitte Meenakshi Institute of Technology erupted in cheer. The staff and students broke into applause as at 7.30pm sharp, the students successfully tracked the UK-built STRand-1 satellite which passed over Bangalore. This satellite was the sixth and final one to be placed into orbit. The mission placed seven satellites in orbit in intervals, in less than a minute, at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota on Monday.

"It was a great moment for the students when they tracked the satellite," said Prof. Sankar Dasiga, co-ordinator of the space project at the institute, which had earlier designed and developed Studsat-1 satellite in 2010.

Dasiga explained that the request to track the satellite came from Surrey Space Centre in the UK. "We received the tracking parameters from Isro and fed it into our tracking system. We received the transmission as it passed over Bangalore at 7.30pm and it was there for 11 minutes," he said.

They were witness to it

Among those who witnessed the event was college principal HC Nagaraj. He said in the next few days, the Nitte Amateur Satellite Tracking Centre will acquire transmission from the satellite and the data will be shared with Surrey Space Centre.

The tracking system in the institute was designed by the students themselves.

"Tracking the satellite will be a considerable learning experience for our students," Dasiga added.


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 12:15

^^^ Suggesting a better title for it: UK satellite tracking now Banglored.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby nvishal » 27 Feb 2013 12:17

Forget PSLV and focus on the GSLV for the time being.

GSLV launch in may. Most importantly, this article is a reality check against all the PR going on unabated
Desi engine to power GSLV
The ISRO has plans to launch GSLV with its indigenous cryogenic engine in May this year.

S. Ramakrishnan, director, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, said Isro had done extensive review of what went wrong in the cryogenic stage in the GSLV. “We also did a detailed analysis of the booster pump which failed during the mission”, he said.

Saraswat: India’s tech gap with other countries widening

V.K. Saraswat on Thursday lamented that India had to depend mostly on foreign nations for technology and the gap between India and other developed nations had widened in the recent past.

He said even though India had made greater advancements in technology based on solid and liquid rocket propulsion it needs to develop a lot in tactical missile propulsion system.

The present state of engine technology in our country is not up to the mark and the aerospace industry in our country is at crossroads. We have achieved partial success with Kaveri engine flight tested in flying test bed abroad”, he said.

Raising concern over the dependence on foreign technology in aircraft, both defence and civilian, Dr Saraswat said the import cost of technology would cripple national economy and endanger national security, if the country’s scientists didn’t’ develop indigenous technology.

“We don’t have state-of-the-art indigenous system worth mentioning. Even simple fuel injection systems are not made on par with international standards”, he added.

Dr Saraswat pointed out that Indian war tanks had no engine manufactured in India and the defence forces had to rely on foreign technology for it.

They products we make are the itna paisa main itna ich milega type products; cheap. While they work, they are still of sub-standard quality. It is our strategic imperative to acquire the capability to put large payloads in the geostationary orbit. Kaveri engine HAS to achieve success. There's no other significant purpose.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby symontk » 27 Feb 2013 17:27

Maybe VSSC is not able to crank out satellites fast enough even if PSLV launches are routine. Could it be a chicken-egg problem?


Small nit pick, VSSC Trivandrum, doesnt built satellites. It is done in Bangalore. Only satellite that I know of which VSSC built was APPLE. Also the launch vehicles like PSLV is fully outsourced. Only testing is done. Then there is project team for PSLV which is totally different from the research and development ones

VSSC always concentrates on future projects and technologies. So current flavour is GSLV-Mk3 and host of technology ones like Cryo, Semi-Cryo, Air breathing engines, Reusable engines etc

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby srin » 27 Feb 2013 18:54

vsunder wrote:Current issue of Current Science has several articles on Risat and C-19 and the upcoming Astrosat mission, telescope on a satellite.

http://www.currentscience.ac.in/


The Astrosat seems to have been delayed significantly. There was work going on at Raman Research Institute as far back as 10 years ago when I was interning there. The target date at that time was 2005-2006.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 27 Feb 2013 19:17

^^^
According to the ISRO annual report last year, all the technological hurdles of Astrosat have been crossed. But there are other satellites in the queue which have greater priority/importance(i.e IRNSS), hence the delay probably.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 22:07

symontk wrote:Small nit pick, VSSC Trivandrum, doesnt built satellites. It is done in Bangalore. Only satellite that I know of which VSSC built was APPLE. Also the launch vehicles like PSLV is fully outsourced. Only testing is done. Then there is project team for PSLV which is totally different from the research and development ones


1. I was meaning to write SAC, Ahmedabad (and ended up writing VSSC).

2. Internally, PSLV is "outsourced", still falls under the ISRO umbrella. The point is with a shoestring budget, ISRO has lot on its plate and still has to accomplish a lot.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 22:15

nvishal wrote:Forget PSLV and focus on the GSLV for the time being.

GSLV launch in may. Most importantly, this article is a reality check against all the PR going on unabated


Can you please take your Rona-Dhona regarding Kaveri to appropriate thread?

And now coming to a different question, can you tell me what India/ISRO will achieve if they put a human in space today? Of course flag waving has its advantages., but try to go beyond that.

Also can you tell us why heavy lift vehicles are needed? How many were launched worldwide in 2012?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby Sridhar » 27 Feb 2013 22:30

Space Applications Center Ahmedabad does not build satellites either!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Postby AbhiJ » 27 Feb 2013 22:34

disha wrote:4. The order book for PSLV is full. If ISRO launches one PSLV a week (52 launches), it will still not suffice. ISRO has to launch weather monitoring satellites, IRNSS satellites, communication satellites, other payloads (like RISATs) and still allow for other countries to piggy back on its launch services (like Israel). Maybe VSSC is not able to crank out satellites fast enough even if PSLV launches are routine. Could it be a chicken-egg problem?


It takes 60 days from the assembling of the rocket to Launch. So the Launch Pad is blocked for 60 days for a launch.

India can only launch 12 Satellites Per Year assuming ISRO works entire year and discounting idle time.


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