Indian Naval Discussion

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sunilUpa
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 05 Dec 2009 23:14

Rahul M wrote:an excellent, excellent article by the Admiral.
Three Imported Destroyers, with BMD (ballastic missile defence) Capability

it doesn't necessarily have to be imported, but the capability is a must.
a design perfectly suited for IN isn't available off the shelf either and whatever is available comes with HUGE strings (nay ropes) attached.

a better option would be to plan for a 10000 tonne ship class of batch size 3 (one for each of the carrier battle groups, two of them in the near future and a battle group built around a large amphib of the jalashwa type) for construction to start sometime around 2013-14 and commissioning within 2020 for the first one.

the ideal weapons fit would be a combination of LR-SAM + naval derivatives of the AAD/PAD system, along with the usual CIWS, torpedoes, some SSMs and a couple of ASW helos.


Build where? MDL will be busy with 15B and 17A, (assuming that Shivaliks and 15A will be delivered in next 5 years), Submarines, Kochi - IAC I, II. Gardenreach - still waiting for the corvettes.

No clarity on Pvt. yard participation.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 05 Dec 2009 23:17

The geography of India and its potential enemies are such that Naval BMD will be of little use to India.

Naval BMD systems are good for countries like US and Europe where potential enemies BM will pass through areas over land and sea where midcourse intercept is possible

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Dec 2009 23:24

GRSE is progressing well on the P28 according to latest reports IIRC. the hold up was at kirloskar's end. their recent record has been quite good on the timely delivery front.
(yes I understand the P16 fiascoes are hard to forget ! :P )

it can be something like :

GSL --> moves up to P28, taking some of GRSE's load
GRSE --> takes up some of MDL's load in frigate manufacturing i.e P17A. possibly also P15B.
MDL --> takes up the lead ships of the P17A and P15B and then on to this AAW destroyer.

austin, perhaps the Admiral is not speaking of BMD for protecting mainland India but for protection again the new chinese threat ? you do have to think ahead, at least the IN does !

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Dec 2009 00:26

Rahul M wrote:GRSE is progressing well on the P28 according to latest reports IIRC. the hold up was at kirloskar's end. their recent record has been quite good on the timely delivery front.
(yes I understand the P16 fiascoes are hard to forget ! :P )

it can be something like :

GSL --> moves up to P28, taking some of GRSE's load
GRSE --> takes up some of MDL's load in frigate manufacturing i.e P17A. possibly also P15B.
MDL --> takes up the lead ships of the P17A and P15B and then on to this AAW destroyer.

austin, perhaps the Admiral is not speaking of BMD for protecting mainland India but for protection again the new chinese threat ? you do have to think ahead, at least the IN does !


Sorry Rahul, I will believe GRSE's progress after I see first P28 delivered, even if there is 400% delay or cost escalation, same goes for Shivalik, remeber the board with '58 days remaining' from Shuk-law visit?

Yess yes I know it is the Kirloskars, GE, or some one else to blame. But still I find it very hard to understand why Shivalik is drydocked after sea trial?

MDL has no chance in hell of completing P15B and P17A within next decade, let alone taking something else.

Let them complete One ship within 150% of delivery time...then I will believe.

IN is better off buying from Russian/European yards, with P17, 17A, 15A and 15B we have enough to keep public sector and babus happy for next 2 decades.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby negi » 06 Dec 2009 00:40

It is AN-124 and not AN-132 which ferried the Mig-29K in knocked down condition.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 06 Dec 2009 01:05

Image


That photo was posted on March 20..

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Niraj_D » 06 Dec 2009 02:53

negi wrote:It is AN-124 and not AN-132 which ferried the Mig-29K in knocked down condition.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navys-new-mig-29-k-fighters-arrive/550254/1

After a long wait, the first four of the Navy’s new MiG 29 K fighter aircraft finally arrived on Friday evening, filling a wide gap in the aerial combat capabilities of the naval force.

The first batch of the advanced fighters, which recently completed carrier flight deck testing in Russia, arrived onboard a special AN 132 cargo aircraft, one of the largest planes in the world. Interestingly, the aircraft arrived on Navy Day which is celebrated on December 4 every year.

Sources said that the knocked down fighters arrived in container form onboard the cargo aircraft. However, it may take several weeks before the fighters take to Indian skies, as they would first be assembled and test flown by a Russian technical team.

The fighters, two single-seater aircraft and two twin-seater trainers, will be based at Goa and will operate from the shore till the Gorshkov aircraft carrier is delivered by late 2012. India has ordered 16 of the advanced carrier borne aircraft from Russia.

With the aircraft completing all tests, including the crucial carrier deck landing exercise as well as weapons trials, the Indian Navy has also decided to place a follow-on order for the fighters. Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma said that the follow-on order could be placed in the current financial year.

As reported by this newspaper, the Navy has already been given the go ahead to procure 29 additional fighters over the next few years to raise additional fighter squadrons. The Navy eventually wants to have a total of close to 50 fighters to operate from two aircraft carriers.

Senior Navy officials said that while the DRDO has promised to develop the naval version of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) by 2013, the Navy is keeping its options open about operating the MiG 29 K fighter from the Vikraant class indigenous aircraft carrier that is being built in Kochi. While the original plan was to equip the Vikraant aircraft carrier with the naval LCA, expected delays in the project would force the Navy to deploy MiG 29 K fighters onboard the warship.

The Navy Chief said that the second aircraft carrier that is being planned after the Vikraant would be even more capable, indicating that it would be larger and be able to operate longer ranged or heavier fighters. The Navy has incidentally issued global Request for Information (RFI) for a new class of carrier borne fighter aircraft.


What a blunder! :oops:
What has happened to media? There is no reference available about existence of AN-132 :roll:
Thanks for correcting.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nachiket » 06 Dec 2009 03:00

Niraj_D wrote:
What a blunder! :oops:
What has happened to media? There is no reference available about existence of AN-132 :roll:
Thanks for correcting.


This one is quite insignificant compared to some of the gems they have come up with in the past, such as "Surface to Air missiles with nuclear warheads, "heavy lift anti-submarine warfare Commando helicopters" and "Anthrax (antrix) Corporation". You can find some here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3694&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2009 11:15

khukri wrote:[quote="ramana
Partially right. Full name please.

Hint: Named after Arjuna's son.


Abhimanyu?[/quote]


No the other famous one: Babruvahan

He is Cdr. Babruvahan Yadav.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 06 Dec 2009 12:33

for every carrier group one ideally needs 2 P15B type AAW CG. this will cover refit cycles at unhelpful times
and also beef up redundancy and firepower in a real war situation. CVBGs of khan tend to have up 4 cruisers attached in a real war situation.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 06 Dec 2009 15:46

India and Russia break stalemate in aircraft carrier deal
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article60980.ece

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 18:52

Now a salvo from me

Which was the first IN major vessel to get surface-to-surface missile launchers ? By major vessels I exclude those cute little missile boats; incidentally PN did not find them very cute in 1971 !!!

Which was the first IN vessel to get surface-to-air missiles launchers ?

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 18:55

Which was the first IN vessel to be fully air conditioned ?

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 18:57

Which was the first major IN vessel to have full diesel propulsion ? Major means greater than say 1000 tons displacement.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 18:59

Which was the first IN vessel to have gas turbine propulsion ? Any size !!

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 06 Dec 2009 19:02

Generally all the ships of the same class are very similar if not exactly identical.

What is the difference between the 6 Leander class frigates of the IN ?


K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 06 Dec 2009 19:25


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 06 Dec 2009 19:27

:!: :!: BREAKING NEWS ALERT :!: :!:
India, Russia reach agreement on Gorskhkov, to ink nuke deal tomorrow

MOSCOW: India and Russia have reached a broad agreement to break the logjam over the protracted price renegotiation over Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and the two sides are expected to sign a landmark civil nuclear pact during summit talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Dmitry Medvedev tomorrow.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby pralay » 07 Dec 2009 14:05

Austin wrote:The geography of India and its potential enemies are such that Naval BMD will be of little use to India.

Naval BMD systems are good for countries like US and Europe where potential enemies BM will pass through areas over land and sea where midcourse intercept is possible

Austin saar,
What i feel is, Naval BMD will be useful to protect Our Carrier Strike Groups. Mainly against the Chinese Anti-ship Ballistic Missiles which it will soon proliferate to Pakistan for sure.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Dec 2009 15:38

Weren't the first IN frigates to get SSMs the Talwar and Trishul, lifted from old Osas? Wasn't the Nilgiri the first indigenous warship to have Air-con too?

Looking at the good admiral's article,he has made his observations from the current cost factor,given the naval/defence budget as of now.I would enlarge upon his observations,as given currnt trends,the defence budget must be raised if we are to meet current and future challenges,especially the huge Chinese threat looming on the horizon in the IOR and its aggro on our borders.Pak being pumped up with "steroids" thanks to the asinine US remains the irritant factor to be added to the Chinese gameplan.

Therefore,for the air defence role,escorting three carrier task forces/groups (Viraat,Gorshkov and IAC-1),a number which will most probably remain with a larger 60,000t carrier acquired to replace the Viraat,plus a few-ideally 3 LHPDs with flat tops like the Mistral or Juan Carlos for the amphibious role,the IN requires large multi-role destroyers/cruisers of at least 12000t,which can carry an assortment of LR SAMs for air defence/BMD ( a small number of ships would be of little use and unless stationed along both coastlines defeating their main purpose protecting the carriers and land based missiles could be larger,swifter and more lethal),a QR anti-missile SAM ,a large main gun ,a gun/missile CIWS,a large number of Brahmos or other LR SSMs,plus anti-sub weapons/missiles/TTs and two large ASW/MR helos and at least one compact UAV.A minimum of 3 such vessels will be required.add to this about 12-18 DDGs of the Delhi (A,B,C) and Brahmos equipped Rajput class (which will also require replacement by 2020),24+ FFGHs of Shivalik (10+),Talwar (9),B/G class (6),18-20 corvettes of P-28 and Kukhri/Kora class and around 16-20 AOPVs,the size and capability of the surface fleet will be quite substantial apart from minor combatants like the missile craft,etc.The 16+ AOPVs should be capable of quick and easy add-on weaponry in a crisis,just as our current OPVs are Dhanush capable.

He is spot on reg. the need for more subs to sanitise choke points and used for sea denial,but for power projection,there is nothing like a carrier and a nuclear powered one better still for the job.Showing the flag around the region and beyond ,especiailly in a future era of extensive PLAN operations outside its traditional waters,is an absolute neccessity.As a good friend (starred landlubber) recently told me,the IN is the "force for the future".

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 07 Dec 2009 18:35

Philip wrote:Weren't the first IN frigates to get SSMs the Talwar and Trishul, lifted from old Osas? Wasn't the Nilgiri the first indigenous warship to have Air-con too?


Hey Phillip.

OLD FOGGIES, LIKE YOU AND ME, AIN'T ALLOWED TO ANSWER THEES QUESTION !!!!!!!!!!

Let us leave it to some of our younger members to use their grey cells.


K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Shankar » 07 Dec 2009 19:01

He is spot on reg. the need for more subs to sanitise choke points and used for sea denial,but for power projection,there is nothing like a carrier and a nuclear powered one better still for the job.Showing the flag around the region and beyond ,especiailly in a future era of extensive PLAN operations outside its traditional waters,is an absolute neccessity.As a good friend (starred landlubber) recently told me,the IN is the "force for the future".


well beg to differ

while Ilike the carriers a lot but our unique geographic location allows us to perform most roles in the indian ocean region including south china sea with long range strike aircraft like Su30 mki with IL78 refuellers and Phalcon support much better than a carrier task group whcih itself becomes a vulnerable unless protected by a large support fleet .

cost of new carrier or even Gorky 3 billion plus another 2 billion for the support group plus another 2 billion for two submarine one of which has to be akula class

toatl cost for launching a 16 aircraft strike mission in 4 waves carrying 3 tons of ordnance max in a day = say 6 billionfor 48 tons of explossive

for the same price we can have 60 su-30 mki = 3 billion
3 il 78 refueller = 400 million
2 phalcon - 800 million

total 4,2 billion

this package can deliver 6 x 60 =360 tons of explosive power that is 7times the payload at around half the price

iT CAN HAVE SAME 4 aircraft strike package in 15 waves spaced out at one hour for 24x7 operation at say western coast of africa same as would be possible with a large 60000 ton carrier

and much more flexible - much less attrition possibility -why 60 sukhois in air will totally dominate any battle space with phalcon support

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Dec 2009 19:35

The IN begs to differ! The mobility of a carrier,which can move 500nm in a day makes it exceptionally potent and able to strike anywhere .Land based aircraft will take time to reach a target area and in contemporary warfare a minute is a long time.Land based aircraft cannot loiter in the Gulf for example,where a carrier with its on-board aircraft can stay on station for a month or more.The US's two Gulf Wars would've been impossible without the role that was played by its carrier strike aircraft.Even in Afghanistan and Iraq,British Harriers have played a most important role in the conflicts.If you take the carrier's capability in prosecuting subs in the ASW role,heavy ASW helos aboard a carrier can quickly track and corner a sub when first detected,far faster than a land based aircraft which could be hundreds of miles away at its base.If the IN has set out its goal to be a true blue-water navy,then it has to possess several carriers which can operate in any ocean.It is why China has embarked upon a crash programme to buld carriers,including nuclear powered ones,to defend its interests far away from home waters.

Given their stealth character,subs are better suited to defending choke points,surveillance off the enemy's coastline,the role in which they are used most often in peacetime,and inserting special forces on highly sensitive missions.Unfortunately the speed of subs,including nuclear subs,is far slower than even turbo-prop aircraft hence the sea denial role suits it best and the SSBN,the key weapon of nuclear deterrent that can remain undetected in the oceans.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby NRao » 07 Dec 2009 20:15

Boeing to invest $600 mn for making P-8I planes

US aircraft manufacturer Boeing Co said on Monday it has started sourcing equipment worth more than $600 million from Indian firms for anti-submarine warfare planes that it is manufacturing for India.

"We have started to place contracts worth over $600 million with Indian companies for supply of indigenous equipment for manufacturing the P-8I planes," said India country head of Boeing's Integrated Defense Systems Vivek Lall.

India signed a $2.1 billion contract with Boeing in January to procure eight P-8I aircraft for its navy.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vishnu.nv » 07 Dec 2009 22:34

Philip,
I completely Agree with Shankar on this. The need of the hour is to secure the Indian Maritime Domain which is Indian Ocean.Base the MKI's in A&N islands permenently. The other option is to open up a airbase some where in the Male Islands. The Doctrine of navy calls for the total control of Indian Ocean which we can have by more LRMPA and Long Range Fighters.
The navy could also buy some LPD's for Helicopter based ASW operations or can have more number of P-28 ASW coverts.

As of now we have two carriers one being built at cochin and vikramadithya for Force Projection.

The reason behind Navy insisting on carriers that any land based fighter aircraft will be coming under the IAF.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Katare » 08 Dec 2009 00:35

AC carrier group uses Aircrafts as one of the offensive arms, it can bring out a lot more firepower from its other assets like missiles, artillery guns, torpedoes etc. The biggest advantage of AC is that it provides integral/organic air cover to your own navy. No other platform would dare confront a naval flotilla containing an AC without obtaining substantial support from its own Air force. So most of the time enemy naval platforms will be hiding/running away from a group containing AC until their own air support appears in the scene.

Although ACs are expansive to buy/operate and they present a large & lucrative target to enemy but they could also provide decisive advantages in battle.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 08 Dec 2009 01:10

while there can be little doubt that A&N needs to be made a truly 'Fortress Andaman & Nicobar Islands' to counter any force projection through malacca and myanmar overflights, it will remain a special case. for choking and countering forces in other areas (sunda straits for example) there will be no alternative to carriers.

ideally, FA&N would develop as India's principal military respondent in case of any PRC misadventure in SE asia, with a full panoply of land based fighters, AEW&C and tanker aircraft.

the naval contingent should comprise of at least one carrier battle group permanently based there, along with a healthy representation of submarines, MPAs and amphib forces. amphib forces should include a couple of brigades from IA earmarked for such operations along with a LPD, in addition to the LSTs.

the establishments would ideally be protected by LR-SAM cover, coastal AShM batteries and at least a rudimentary BMD, should such a system be commisioned.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 08 Dec 2009 02:31

Kersi D wrote:Now a salvo from me

Which was the first IN major vessel to get surface-to-surface missile launchers ? By major vessels I exclude those cute little missile boats; incidentally PN did not find them very cute in 1971 !!!

Which was the first IN vessel to get surface-to-air missiles launchers ?

K



Wasn't that the INS Talwar (F40) and Trishul(F 43) (Whitby class) with Seacat Missiles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seacat_missiles

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 08 Dec 2009 10:53

ramana wrote:
Kersi D wrote:Now a salvo from me

Which was the first IN major vessel to get surface-to-surface missile launchers ? By major vessels I exclude those cute little missile boats; incidentally PN did not find them very cute in 1971 !!!

Which was the first IN vessel to get surface-to-air missiles launchers ?

K



Wasn't that the INS Talwar (F40) and Trishul(F 43) (Whitby class) with Seacat Missiles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seacat_missiles


INS Talwar (F40) and Trishul(F 43) (Whitby class) were the first 'large' vessels to get SSMs, Styx launchers from the Osa I missile boats. This refitting was done under Mr. C K Vishwanathan who I think was the Chief Engineer when this transplanting was done in 1972/73. Mr. C K Vishwanathan retired as Vice Admiral. Those who remember (and care) Vice Admiral Mr. C K Vishwanathan was present in one of our BR Meets in Bangalore, during AE 2003. Admiral Dawson was also present in this BR Meet. Incidentally Admiral Dawson was the IN Chief when INS Talwar and INS Trishul got their SSMs. We had some very interesting discussions with these gentlemen on this issue. They were very surprised and happy that BR members knew about this

I think INS Nilgiri must have been the first ship to get SAMs, Seacat launchers.

BY the way there has been several differences in the various Leander class frigates. Any contributions ?

Any idea which was the first IN ship to get a towed sonar array or a variable depth sonar ? I know INS Nilgiri had one but I do not know any ship before that.

Perhaps Phillip or Austin can contribute some thing from their treasure chest

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby aditp » 08 Dec 2009 11:04

GORSHKOV DEAL FINALISED
Posting in full
India and Russia have 'successfully' concluded the agreement on the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, ending a long standoff over the key defence deal, Indian Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao said.

The issue, Rao said, came up during the summit level talks between visiting Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev Monday.

'Both the leaders discussed the issue and noted excellent progress on negotiations on price and technical issues which have been brought to a successful conclusion,' she told reporters in a late night briefing.

But the foreign secretary gave no details about the price. Sources had earlier said that it was 'satisfactory' for both sides.

The delivery of the aircraft carrier, now rechristened INS Vikramaditya, was agreed years ago but has been long delayed due to bargaining over refitting prices.

The haggling of the Soviet-era carrier had come to symbolise the strains in relations between the two Cold War allies.

Russian media quoting Kremlin sources confirmed that Moscow would finally deliver the refurbished aircraft carrier to India.

However, there was no word on when the vessel might be handed over to the Indian Navy.

Manmohan Singh was on a three-day trip to Moscow during which he signed six bilateral pacts, including a deal on the peaceful use of atomic energy that guarantees uninterrupted uranium fuel supplies for Indian reactors and transfer of technology.

The two sides also inked three military pacts.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vina » 08 Dec 2009 12:20

Vice Admiral Mr. C K Vishwanathan was present in one of our BR Meets in Bangalore, during AE 2003. Admiral Dawson was also present in this BR Meet. Incidentally Admiral Dawson was the IN Chief


Ye'Gad! . Are you telling me that BR is taken seriously by the brass (former and present) and has a wider audience , including in policy making circles. :eek: :eek: !

I thought this was just a place to shoot off in Nukkad, Benis and spout verses in Pinglish on Enqyoob's days in the Madrassa and A1 Dasaprakash ice creams which were the height of haute cuisine in the old days!.. :(( :((

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 08 Dec 2009 13:04

vina wrote:
Vice Admiral Mr. C K Vishwanathan was present in one of our BR Meets in Bangalore, during AE 2003. Admiral Dawson was also present in this BR Meet. Incidentally Admiral Dawson was the IN Chief


Ye'Gad! . Are you telling me that BR is taken seriously by the brass (former and present) and has a wider audience , including in policy making circles. :eek: :eek: !

I thought this was just a place to shoot off in Nukkad, Benis and spout verses in Pinglish on Enqyoob's days in the Madrassa and A1 Dasaprakash ice creams which were the height of haute cuisine in the old days!.. :(( :((


The Chief of IAF Eastern Command was in our BR Meet at AE 2001.

BR has a very large following amongst the serving defence personnel though amny of them will not admit, due to several reasons.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby krishnan » 08 Dec 2009 13:12

vina wrote:
Vice Admiral Mr. C K Vishwanathan was present in one of our BR Meets in Bangalore, during AE 2003. Admiral Dawson was also present in this BR Meet. Incidentally Admiral Dawson was the IN Chief


Ye'Gad! . Are you telling me that BR is taken seriously by the brass (former and present) and has a wider audience , including in policy making circles. :eek: :eek: !

I thought this was just a place to shoot off in Nukkad, Benis and spout verses in Pinglish on Enqyoob's days in the Madrassa and A1 Dasaprakash ice creams which were the height of haute cuisine in the old days!.. :(( :((


You have no idea the kind of impact and following that BR has

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 08 Dec 2009 17:13

Baltiysky Zavod has delivered second set of shafts and propellors for Indian P15A. The first set was delivered in December 2008 and the final one is scheduled for December 2010. Total sum of the contract - 20 mln USD.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 08 Dec 2009 21:24

vina wrote:
Vice Admiral Mr. C K Vishwanathan was present in one of our BR Meets in Bangalore, during AE 2003. Admiral Dawson was also present in this BR Meet. Incidentally Admiral Dawson was the IN Chief


Ye'Gad! . Are you telling me that BR is taken seriously by the brass (former and present) and has a wider audience , including in policy making circles. :eek: :eek: !

I thought this was just a place to shoot off in Nukkad, Benis and spout verses in Pinglish on Enqyoob's days in the Madrassa and A1 Dasaprakash ice creams which were the height of haute cuisine in the old days!.. :(( :((



Who do you think all those guest are?

And we had the chief of air ops during Kargil as a regular.

It is taken quite seriously among babulok also.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Nihat » 09 Dec 2009 00:14

Any new update on commissioning of the lead frigate (Shivalik Class) , pics. of sea trials were released , generally how long would it take from Sea trials to commissioning. Even the second ship of this class was to be on sea trials by now (according to wiki though) , is this info accurate in the first place.

Gkin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gkin » 09 Dec 2009 08:04

Uncle of mine is a Joint Director of SIB.

He loves BRF!

sum
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Dec 2009 08:59

SIB= subsidiary Intelligence bureau?

Gkin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gkin » 09 Dec 2009 10:03

Yep.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby vishal » 09 Dec 2009 11:21

sum wrote:SIB= subsidiary Intelligence bureau?


State Intelligence Bureau. The Maharashtra SIB has one of it's large offices very close to my office building and till a couple of years ago the office was in the building next to SIB. Typical drab sarkari building and in those days with just a couple (most days just one) 303 toting pandu. Nothing to mark it as anything but just another govt. building. Hiding in plain sight I guess.


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