Indian Naval Discussion

[Rahul M]

u mean 2032 in SHARs ? they are meant to be ? for Dog fight ?, so Us navy will not have P8 with AIR 2 Air mode ?

I meant with the airborne Maritime Radars on the IN patrol aircraft.
.........

you mean the ones on Do-228 ?

[Singha]

IN needs those EMB145 AEW from CABS to guarantee proper surveillance. the P8I thing is more for self defence only to prevent hostiles from sneaking up the back door....its not going to be a hugely functional set for sure.

and Midas for sure to ensure those EMBs can maintain station longer.

[Rahul M]

sorry for the late reply.

Chandragupta II, of the gupta dynasty adopted the name vikramaditya and is widely acknowledged as one of the foremost military leaders of ancient India, along with his father Samudragupta and Chandragupta Maurya

Rahul,

naming something Vikramditya to honour Chandragupta Maurya doesnt really sound right. So the assumption is that the name Vikramditya was picked to honour the "original" Vikramditya - that may have inspired Chandragupta.

Jagan, you have got me all wrong. this is what I said :

historically, Vikramaditya is invariably associated with Chandragupta Vikramaditya and is undoubtedly fit to be the name of an IN warship.

chandragupta vikramaditya (also known as chandragupta II, since his grandfather's name was chandragupta too, nothing to do with chandragupta maurya who reigned about 700 years earlier) was the 3rd emperor of the Gupta lineage and his reign is considered 'THE' golden age of ancient India. he is a great ruler and an able military ruler in his own right.

Unlike kings who fought invaders or oppressive regimes, Samudragupta expanded his regime by subduing internal petty kingdoms. Chandragupta II Vikramaditya simply consolidated his father’s gains.

that was how unification was done in the absence of general elections ! vikramaditya's reign as emperor is hardly as unexceptional as you make him out to be !

[Kartik]

A very interesting development. I'd expect that the IN would be interested in something of this sort that would allow it to take on PN and PLAN submarines with its P-8Is..
Raytheon's new long-range air-launched torpedo for the P-8

SINGAPORE 2010: Raytheon unveils long-range torpedo for P-8
By Stephen Trimble

Raytheon has revealed plans to challenge Boeing and Lockheed Martin for a US Navy contract to modify a torpedo for high-altitude launch by a P-8 Poseidon.

The Raytheon Fish Hawk programme integrates a wingkit, flight-control surfaces and a guidance system to a Mk 54 or Mk 46 torpedo, says Mark "Smoke" Borup, senior business development manager for Raytheon's advanced missiles and unmanned aircraft systems unit.

The objective of the USN's High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Concept (HAAWC) programme is to allow the P-8 to launch at high altitude. The stand-off distance protects the P-8 from an emerging new class of submarine-launched, anti-aircraft missiles. The concept also would reduce the stress caused by diving to low altitude on the P-8 airframe.

Raytheon's approach with the Fish Hawk is unique among its competitors in a key area, Borup says. Instead of modifying an existing wing-kit for the Fish Hawk, Raytheon developed an all-new design over the last three years, he says. The purpose-built design allows the Fish Hawk to be loaded on each of the P-8's internal and external weapons stations.

The Raytheon design also includes a unique pivot-wing, with a spring-loaded mechanism releasing the wing into position after the torpedo is launched. The Fish Hawk is designed to be launched upside-down and right itself after the wing deploys. A tail guidance section, which includes four fins, is also deployed at the same time as the wing.

Raytheon has performed a single flight test in March 2008 to demonstrate that the technology works, Borup says. Raytheon had planned to perform two flight tests, but the single event achieved all of the desired test results, he adds.

The Fish Hawk uses a global positioning/inertial navigation system to glide to a location in the proximity of the targeted submarine. As the weapon reaches a specific point in space, the wingkit and guidance section is jettisoned. The torpedo drops into the water, using its terminal guidance system to fix the position of the target.

Raytheon has not integrated a datalink on Fish Hawk. However, Borup says, the company is aware that the USN eventually plans to adopt a datalink for such weapons, and has made provisions for the Fish Hawk to accept a datalink.

[chetak]

you mean the ones on Do-228 ?

Yes saar and also...........

[Rahul M]

you mean the ones on Do-228 ?

Yes saar and also...........

the UAVs ?

[chetak]

the UAVs ?

Let it lie peacefully saar.

[Singha]

Kartik, it is on offer to IN. it was inevitable for P8 because the
737 isnt exactly in its prime at sea level weaving around like
a orion or bear.

livefist:

The US is also making available to India the new Raytheon Fish Hawk GPS-guidance wing kit along with MK-54 anti-submarine torpedoes as part of the weapons package.

Rahul M - I think he meant the roof mounted radar on IL38-upg

[tsarkar]

Rahul,

I do admire the Gupta kings for their administrative qualities. I also do concur with D Roy that the Gupta empire was a bulwark against Hunnic incursions. However, the major contributor to the Gupta empire was Samudragupta.

No battles/campaigns are known, for which I have referred R C Majumdar. No exemplary deeds are known either, unlike Shivaji, Kanhoji, Kunjali Marakkar or Tipu Sultan after whom naval units have been named. A cruise ship or airliner named after Vikramaditya would have been fine.

A ship’s name needs to inspire its crew. We do draw inspiration from places, rivers, mountains, nautical terms. And from a purely behavioral sciences perspective, the inspiration should be tangible, rather than religious/mythical/unknown quantities.

We need to avoid legalizing thought processes not based on sound facts. Look how Pakistan’s 1:10 logic terribly misfired. During that war, they airdropped the SSG based on shoddy planning that relied on 1:10 logic and the result was for all to see.

Singha, the contraption above the cockpit is the ESM suite. The radar is on the dome under the belly.

[negi]

Tsarkar we never know the name could have been decided in one of those NWWA's kitty parties. I remember mother asking me and my bro to suggest names for Admiral Gorshkov when I was in school (yeah its been a long time) I had suggested 'Vikraal' pretty much on the lines of Vikrant and Viraat guess some one in Dilli had a better idea.

[D Roy]

-deleted-

[D Roy]

All hail Samudragupta, the greatest king who has ever graced our holy land!

we better name our first nuke powered carrier after him.
INS Samudragupta- awesome. its going to scare people all the way to Uzbekistan.

[chetak]

the UAVs ?

Let it lie peacefully saar.

Rahul M saar,


We could take this off line.

PM your email id if you want to.

[Yagnasri]

The name Vikrama - Adithya is for its meaning and may not denote any one king. Let us not forget it was regular title for many great kinds. For example Hemachadra Vikramadithya one of the great Hindu genearls and Kings whose tragic death robbed us our freedom from Moghals.

[chetak]

Tsarkar we never know the name could have been decided in one of those NWWA's kitty parties. I remember mother asking me and my bro to suggest names for Admiral Gorshkov when I was in school (yeah its been a long time) I had suggested 'Vikraal' pretty much on the lines of Vikrant and Viraat guess some one in Dilli had a better idea.

The Indian carriers will all have names starting with "V".

Even the one being built in desh will have a "V" name.

Obviously, options will be limited. One cannot have venu or vinod, no?

Have a heart guys. From all the discussions about the name, let me assure you that such deep, historic and cultural discussions hardly take place in any HQs. Some discussions yes but nowhere on the scale and breadth that this little discussion has generated.

[vipins]

Moreover, the Andaman and Nicobar Command, set up in 2001 as a joint services formation, would also add to its number of the existing 15 ships stationed here in the near future.

Naval officers pointed out that the plan was to have a "string of airfields" in the archipelago with the capacity to operate all types of aircraft including fighters such as the potent Sukhois.

The airstrips would also be able to handle large transport aircraft like IL-76 and AN-32s in all of these airfields for better coverage of the region, which is close to the Indian Ocean choke point, the Malacca Straits.

link

[sunny y]

What about INS Ranjit after Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab.
After all He was the one who along with his Generals like Hari Singh Nalwa & Jassa Singh Ahluwalia demonstarted the true power of Indians to the world by capturing as far as Afghanistan.
It would be nice to have a ship named after him, constantly reminding our western neighbours the terror that people like Nalwa struck in their hearts

[tsarkar]

Yes, indeed, wardroom, mess and NWWA parties are places where names are discussed, though Chetak, I have witnessed frenzy of activity whenever signals went out asking for names with everyone at their poetic best. More enthusiasm shown than while naming their own babies.

[chetak]

What about INS Ranjit after Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab.
After all He was the one who along with his Generals like Hari Singh Nalwa & Jassa Singh Ahluwalia demonstarted the true power of Indians to the world by capturing as far as Afghanistan.
It would be nice to have a ship named after him, constantly reminding our western neighbours the terror that people like Nalwa struck in their hearts

Thought we had one.

D53 is the second INS Ranjit, in fact. The first INS Ranjit (1942) was a R class destroyer acquired in 1949 from the Royal Navy.

INS Ranjit (D53) is the third of the five Rajput class destroyers built for the Indian Navy. Ranjit was commissioned on 24 November 1983.

[sunny y]

Thought we had one.

D53 is the second INS Ranjit, in fact. The first INS Ranjit (1942) was a R class destroyer acquired in 1949 from the Royal Navy.

INS Ranjit (D53) is the third of the five Rajput class destroyers built for the Indian Navy. Ranjit was commissioned on 24 November 1983

I wasn't aware of it. Thanks for the info Chetak ji

[Jayram]

All hail Samudragupta, the greatest king who has ever graced our holy land!

we better name our first nuke powered carrier after him.
INS Samudragupta- awesome. its going to scare people all the way to Uzbekistan.

I love that name in Telugu Samudram means Sea or Ocean.

[Aditya G]

even i thought of they may go same way ,i am little confused regarding Air to Air mode in P8 made by IN , what thats for ? air to air combat ? or for air surveillance ?

Air surveillance.

The Israeli radars used on IN aircraft also have this mode.

How does this capability compare to say, the A-50EI?

[prasadha]

Dear all

While discussing about historical conquests of Indian rulers, who can forget the deeds of Cholas, especially their naval conquests.

For those who want more info, check out [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Dynasty]Chola Dynasty[/url]

Regards

Prasad

[Rahul M]

Naval officers pointed out that the plan was to have a "string of airfields" in the archipelago with the capacity to operate all types of aircraft including fighters such as the potent Sukhois.

The airstrips would also be able to handle large transport aircraft like IL-76 and AN-32s in all of these airfields for better coverage of the region, which is close to the Indian Ocean choke point, the Malacca Straits.

some good news. A&N should be decked with all the paraphernalia required by a self-contained military base to defend itself and exert influence on the maritime routes in that area. IIRC basing an mki sqn there has been planned/recommended.
what we have
>patrol craft
>amphibs
> Do-228 MPA sqn
> Mi-8 sqn (still Mi-8 or replaced by Mi-17 ?)
> infantry brigade

what we should have
> 1-2 long legged fighter sqn, mki or mig-29k
> A2A re-fueling tanker
> AEW&C cover
> more MPA and of a higher endurance than do-228
> at least one modern destroyer/frigate sqn
> at least 2 sub SSK sqn but that looks highly unlikely in near future.
> expansion of the permanent garrison strength to division with complete amphib capability
> additional helo sqn for the utility role

in Telugu Samudram means Sea or Ocean.

sanskrit origin, hence true for most Indian languages. somehow I suspect samudragupta and chandragupta will be reserved for more 'impressive' ships than the 40000 t ones.

[jaladipc]

A quick question.

What is the power source for A&N? is it coal based or gas based?

If it is based on either,I would suggest an under ground nuclear based power supply to deal with in any critical situation. Both coal based and gas based are highly un reliable considering the supply during the war time.

If no power? Every thing will come to stand still and makes people depend on oil generators for every task.

better late than never.After all its a good idea which will send jitters down the chinese spine.

Is there any relation to this recent decision to the US stand on china while supporting Indian influence in Asia and beyond?

[jaladipc]

Naval officers pointed out that the plan was to have a "string of airfields" in the archipelago with the capacity to operate all types of aircraft including fighters such as the potent Sukhois.

The airstrips would also be able to handle large transport aircraft like IL-76 and AN-32s in all of these airfields for better coverage of the region, which is close to the Indian Ocean choke point, the Malacca Straits.

some good news. A&N should be decked with all the paraphernalia required by a self-contained military base to defend itself and exert influence on the maritime routes in that area. IIRC basing an mki sqn there has been planned/recommended.
what we have
>patrol craft
>amphibs
> Do-228 MPA sqn
> Mi-8 sqn (still Mi-8 or replaced by Mi-17 ?)
> infantry brigade

what we should have
> 1-2 long legged fighter sqn, mki or mig-29k
> A2A re-fueling tanker
> AEW&C cover
> more MPA and of a higher endurance than do-228
> at least one modern destroyer/frigate sqn
> at least 2 sub SSK sqn but that looks highly unlikely in near future.
> expansion of the permanent garrison strength to division with complete amphib capability
> additional helo sqn for the utility role

in Telugu Samudram means Sea or Ocean.

sanskrit origin, hence true for most Indian languages. somehow I suspect samudragupta and chandragupta will be reserved for more 'impressive' ships than the 40000 t ones.

Lol...... your wishlist might be full pledgly satisfied IF IN likes to base IAC in A&N. A CBG will have all sort of things,hence a floating base supporting an unsinkable base

[chetak]

How does this capability compare to say, the A-50EI?

Sirjee,

Please remember that this is basically a very efficient and sophisticated maritime patrol radar that also has a limited but extremely useful air to air mode of operation.

Obviously it's air to air capabilities will not be favorably comparable with a specialized radar optimized specifically for air to air work.The MPR, in air to air mode is a compromise because the sea surveillance optimized antenna + associated hardware + signal processing + software has to shift gears and do a very specialized job for which is not specifically built.

It has some other pretty fabulous modes too. Its easily the most sophisticated maritime radar in this neck of the woods.

The airborne capabilities of the AWACS is entirely in another league. Since both come from the same country, the MPR and the AWACS, It would be very interesting to find out how both compare in the sea surveillance mode!

[chetak]

A quick question.

What is the power source for A&N? is it coal based or gas based?

Mostly diesel.

[Juggi G]

Navy Multi-nation exercise not to create anti-China bloc

While the Army has an Assault Brigade on the Island and the Air Force can Operate Fighters as well as Transport Aircraft from Different Air Strips on the Island Chain, A New All-Weather Airbase is Coming Up North of Port Blair.

[Cybaru]

The airborne capabilities of the AWACS is entirely in another league. Since both come from the same country, the MPR and the AWACS, It would be very interesting to find out how both compare in the sea surveillance mode!

Horrible is the word on the street. The sea remains shimmery at best.

[Jamal K. Malik]

'2 yrs for Arihant's induction in operational roles'

[VinodTK]

Australian Navy agrees to India assuming policing role in Indian Ocean

[VinodTK]

India plans to ease China’s squeeze

[Craig Alpert]

India to setup new airbases in Andaman Island

07 Feb 2010 8ak: Increasing security concern and emerging need of revamping security in the Andaman and Nicobar Island has prompted India to set up new airbases and upgrade the existing ones in the Island. The Admiral said that the existing air-strip was not suitable for meeting the security requirements and plans were in place to build new air-strips in the 572 islands to establish better control over the territory and provide adequate security cover to the island, which is 700-km from the mainland.

The airstrip up north (Northern Andaman Islands) needs to be refurbished. Even for smaller aircraft it is a tight fit,' Verma told reporters in Port Blair. Adding further, he said that night landing facilities would also be established at the air-strips.

The airfield at Shibpur is about 1,000 feet in length and is inadequate for smaller cargo aircraft like Dornier and AN-32. Currently, only helicopters are capable of conducting operations from the airfield. Other airbases in the region are situated at Port Blair, Car Nicobar, and Campbell Bay, with plans to establish new ones in Katchul and Hut Bay.

The decision comes at a time when China is focussing on establishing their stronghold in the waters by expanding its navy at an unprecedented pace. Additional airbases would augment the capability of Indian armed forces to enhance the pace of troop mobilisation and logistical support in wake of any Chinese hostility. It will also enable India to extend its sphere of influence South China Sea.

The IAF has also opened three Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs) in the past two years to counter China’s military expansion. The latest being Nyoma in eastern Ladakh, just 23 km from the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, which was opened in September 2009. The other two ALGs are Daulat Beg Oldi, the world's highest airfield at 16,200 feet, in May 2008 and Fuk Che in November in the same year.

The Indian army on its past is modernising their artillery in a US$4 billion modernisation program to counter China. The big neighbour continues to be a threat to India, with whom it has a border dispute and even fought a war in 1962.

[kit]

Fortress Andaman should be complemented by another naval base preferably in south Sri Lanka., that would give operations more depth.

[krishnan]

I dont known whether SL will allow it. How about kanyakumari

[Singha]

there is already a base near rameswaram - visible from highway partially but maybe CG not IN.

[Singha]

planeman's blog (is he SOC @ AFM) has pix of the varyag being remodelled for entry into service and more
importantly a land based replica of her flight deck for training.

http://planeman-bluffersguide.blogspot. ... power.html

[D Roy]

Kalam has talked about putting in place a small PHWR in the andamans. and we must remember that the Indo-US nuke deal explicitly puts nukes used to power bases out of scrutiny.

The andamans also has geo-thermal potential and that might be tapped as well.

We must make this island chain self contained in every way.

and we must also allow the island to pay for itself by simultaneously developing tourist infrastructure.

[Rahul M]

planeman's blog (is he SOC @ AFM) has pix of the varyag being remodelled for entry into service and more
importantly a land based replica of her flight deck for training.

http://planeman-bluffersguide.blogspot. ... power.html

nope, planeman posts as himself at keypubs. he is the guy who did that aircraft carriers analysis. SOC's blog is different.