Indian Naval Discussion

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Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Apr 2010 14:04

Talk about the Gorshkov delay! These are new subs for heavens sake,not some upgrades! The incompetent fools who signed away this asinine deal should be punished severely for causing huge extra losses to the GOI/taxpayer in billions and placing the In in an acute sub capability crisis.The GOI should also accelerate the second line of subs armed with B'Mos,which the delayed Scorpenes will not even have in their armoury! A third buy of a few more German U-214s to augnment/replace the old U-209s should similarly pursued.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2010 14:08

^^^ The way to offset delay without much complication in existing logistics is to order 4 - 5 Kilo 636M , these are very capable missile equipped sub and IN has been operating older version of these subs for nearly 2 decades.

IMO U-214 , Amur etc wont cut the ice as far as quick induction and cost effectiveness goes.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 06 Apr 2010 14:56

Philip wrote:Talk about the Gorshkov delay! These are new subs for heavens sake,not some upgrades! The incompetent fools who signed away this asinine deal should be punished severely for causing huge extra losses to the GOI/taxpayer in billions and placing the In in an acute sub capability crisis.The GOI should also accelerate the second line of subs armed with B'Mos,which the delayed Scorpenes will not even have in their armoury! A third buy of a few more German U-214s to augnment/replace the old U-209s should similarly pursued.


Maybe we should have built 2 in France first, as is as a prudent decision. Anything and everything to justify the Russians, Right.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 06 Apr 2010 18:57

Austin wrote:^^^ The way to offset delay without much complication in existing logistics is to order 4 - 5 Kilo 636M , these are very capable missile equipped sub and IN has been operating older version of these subs for nearly 2 decades.

IMO U-214 , Amur etc wont cut the ice as far as quick induction and cost effectiveness goes.

Going by the IAF experience (MRCA tamasha) IN brass or MOD or GOI will not be in too much hurry and will want to satisfy the beancounters.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Apr 2010 19:33

Kavu,it's what I wondered about right from the start,why we didn't build the frst two in France,watched them being built and simultaneously built the rest in India.The fiasco with the German U-boats,delays in "assembling " them,should've warned the MOD/IN/GOI that building subs is not an easy task,that too when thanks to a myopic regime of the time,we abandoned our lead in sub-building totally to the Koreans,Japanese,and Pakis! Even Malaysia now operates Scorpenes while the In will have to wait for another 4 years before the first arrives,that too without AIP,which will make it inferior to other subs in service in the region.Thanks to these delays,we will be operating obsolete Scorpenes in the decade to come.

Extra Kilos will make sense only if they are equipped with Brahmos.Instead,I would try and get a couple more Akulas from Russia on lease,even older Akula-1s as a stop-gap arranegement,which will be far superior to any conventional sub.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby SNaik » 06 Apr 2010 20:11

Austin wrote:^^^ The way to offset delay without much complication in existing logistics is to order 4 - 5 Kilo 636M , these are very capable missile equipped sub and IN has been operating older version of these subs for nearly 2 decades.

IMO U-214 , Amur etc wont cut the ice as far as quick induction and cost effectiveness goes.


Amur is definitely nowhere near. They have managed to iron out the problems with faulty circuitry of the main engine and most of the software glitches in Lythium ASBU (that's the new Russian name for BIUS), but Lyra sonar is a total failure (it was designed by Rubin itself with NPO Volna - producer of radiocomm equipment - as subcontractor) and now Morfizpribor (the Institute designing Rubikon sonar suite for Kilos) has been tasked to start from the scratch. This means a delay of several years at the best and is the reason why the lead boat will be accepted by the Navy only on terms of ''trial exploitation". Chief designer of Lada Yuri Kormilicin was fired in 2007 together with Boris Spassky, Head of Rubin Bureau and this year Vladimir Zdornov, the new Head of Rubin has been fired as well.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sathyaC » 06 Apr 2010 20:35

wat about the the IAC 1 ????? :?:
any update???? :eek:
it was supposed 2 be launched this year!!!!!! :((

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 06 Apr 2010 21:08

Philip wrote:Kavu,it's what I wondered about right from the start,why we didn't build the frst two in France,watched them being built and simultaneously built the rest in India.The fiasco with the German U-boats,delays in "assembling " them,should've warned the MOD/IN/GOI that building subs is not an easy task,that too when thanks to a myopic regime of the time,we abandoned our lead in sub-building totally to the Koreans,Japanese,and Pakis! Even Malaysia now operates Scorpenes while the In will have to wait for another 4 years before the first arrives,that too without AIP,which will make it inferior to other subs in service in the region.Thanks to these delays,we will be operating obsolete Scorpenes in the decade to come.

Extra Kilos will make sense only if they are equipped with Brahmos.Instead,I would try and get a couple more Akulas from Russia on lease,even older Akula-1s as a stop-gap arranegement,which will be far superior to any conventional sub.


Getting old Akula's isnt an economically viable idea nor is getting 636 Kilo's either, it is too outdated a technology.The best bet would be to order 6 more Scorpene's at the French Yard. We need atleast 30 Diesel SSK's, 10 SSN's and 6 SSBN's.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2010 21:33

SNaik wrote:Chief designer of Lada Yuri Kormilicin was fired in 2007 together with Boris Spassky, Head of Rubin Bureau and this year Vladimir Zdornov, the new Head of Rubin has been fired as well.
,

Thanks for the update

They should thank their fate that they are not in Soviet Era else for the failure they would have ended up in Siberia in some coal mines

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 07 Apr 2010 12:52

Kavu wrote:
Philip wrote:.


Getting old Akula's isnt an economically viable idea nor is getting 636 Kilo's either, it is too outdated a technology.The best bet would be to order 6 more Scorpene's at the French Yard. We need atleast 30 Diesel SSK's, 10 SSN's and 6 SSBN's.


Philip, Kavu,

How difficult will it be to design our own conventional submarines now that the Arihant has been launched and is undergoing tests pending its commissioning. As the difference between the two should only be the nuclear reactor.

Is this route being perused by the IN.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 07 Apr 2010 13:58

Pratyush,

It would take so nearly a decade or a little less to design from ground up and another 5 to
Produce it in numbers, we need to reach according to vision 2027 atleast 24 SSKs by then, keep in mind that we have to replace our kilos by this time. That is in the next 17 years we have a requirement of 24 brand new SSKs, we might be able to replace the Kilos circa 2022-2027 by our own orginial design, but that leaves another 14 subs. My opinion make'em all scorpenes or improved scorpenes

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Apr 2010 14:08

Old Akulas on lease for a short period,like the Chakra lease,is merely a stop-gap arrangement,because three teams of sub-mariners have been trained on Akula-2/s reportedly.I'm not sure as to how long the next Akula-2/3 will take to arrive,but in tne interim,there are a large number of Russian N-boats worth operating,to be returned as the new N-boats arrive.In addition,China operates 636 Kilos,so buying more of them would not be much of an advantage,even if they were B'Mos equipped,as other sensor and performance paramaters would be the same or marginally better.

Conventional sub building is a very complex affair,we do not know how to design or build an AIP sub and have just started our own N-reactor series with the Arihant and full-scale mock-up at K'pakkam.We are supposedly designing and going to also build a series of SSGNs based upon the ATV .Extra Scorpenes is a non-no because the Scorpenes cannot carry B'Mos and will be obsolete (second series) as the French have an even newer design available now which they hope to entice India into ordering.Without experiencing for a few years the Scorpene design,it would be impractical for the IN to buy an uproven boat.We do have experience with German U-209 boats which is why I've strongly advocated that we buy the AIP U-214 meant for Greece which they have rejected.This will make an immediate augmentation to our sub fleet.In previous posts it has been shown that the Greek complaints (not made by any other navy operating similar boats) were a device to wriggle out of payments,as the Greek economy is in sh*t street,ironically being bailed out by the Germans! Buying a few more (2) U-214s will be additions and possible future replacements for our 4 U-209s,which cannot fire missiles.In addition,Germany has done us a signal favour by denying the Pakis U-boats which they desperately want from Germany,as their French Agosta-90Bs will be inferior to Indian Scorpenes in the future.The U-212/214s are very successful with the SoKos building them in large number.

The Amur/Lada design has hopefully been perfected by now with the first two boats in Russian service put through their paces.Rubin have a ready Amur + B'Mos design available and this should be our second line to replace the aging Kilos,the subs built by L&T preferably in their proposed new yard on the east coast near Madras.The Hazira yard should be the primary yard for churning out our components/hulls for N-subs in "sausage" fashion as did the Germans during WW2,where they were producing more than 30 subs each month even at the close of the war!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Apr 2010 16:21

Philip wrote:We do have experience with German U-209 boats which is why I've strongly advocated that we buy the AIP U-214 meant for Greece which they have rejected.This will make an immediate augmentation to our sub fleet.In previous posts it has been shown that the Greek complaints (not made by any other navy operating similar boats) were a device to wriggle out of payments,as the Greek economy is in sh*t street,ironically being bailed out by the Germans! Buying a few more (2) U-214s will be additions and possible future replacements for our 4 U-209s,which cannot fire missiles.In addition,Germany has done us a signal favour by denying the Pakis U-boats which they desperately want from Germany,as their French Agosta-90Bs will be inferior to Indian Scorpenes in the future.The U-212/214s are very successful with the SoKos building them in large number.


By opting for U-214 you add a new type and logistics burden , its fine if you want to add as new 2nd line of sub.

But to take care of depleting strength and add quality the latest version of Kilo 636M is the best bang for the buck , it can fire LR Klub missile which the U-214 cant.

Remember the 636M is not your old grandpa model with IN uses , it has combat system of Lada and is a very mature line of the Kilo family.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby narayana » 07 Apr 2010 16:51

when can we expect Arihant-2?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Apr 2010 18:57

True,the latest Kilos are better than earlier ones,but the Kilo is around 3000t fully loaded and the smaller SSKs are perhaps better suited for littoral warfare in the anti-sub role.The Kilos,especially if also fitted with an AIP system,would be ideal for the IOR equipped with 300+km B'Mos.The Amur is supposed to be far quieter and cheaper too,so it would be a better bet.WE are going to have for some time three sub techs.German,Russian and French simultaneously along wit the Indo-Russian designed ATV.The two western sub types can be evaluated along with the Kilo/Amurs so that past 2020,just one conventional indigenously designed type could perhaps progressively replace all older types in service,barring N-subs.A maintenance headache agreed,but just imagine the headache for the enemy when faced with 3 different types of conventional sub tech and the cocktail of weaponry at the IN's disposal,an absolutely lethal combination!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby VinayG » 07 Apr 2010 19:10

hi to all the forum members this is my first post pardon me if i am wrong or if it is a re post my question is why dont indian navy and ministry of defence go for off the shelf subs until we finish familiarisation with building scorpene sub

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Venu » 07 Apr 2010 20:23

narayana wrote:when can we expect Arihant-2?


After 'Arihant-1' comes out flying colors in all its tests and gets operational.

Even I am longing to see Ar-2's arrival.

Btw, any news on whether Ar-1's testing is underway? If yes, where?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 07 Apr 2010 21:14

Btw, any news on whether Ar-1's testing is underway? If yes, where?

Somewhere out in the deep ocean. Dont expect a more precise answer :mrgreen: :P

Anyways, there was a lookout notice to ensure no fishermen to be allowed near Chennai( or Kochi, not sure) waters about 3-4 months back. So, that must have been the commencement of the trials.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 07 Apr 2010 22:07

Our requirement is for 24 SSK's and -10 SSN's 6 SSBN's
Leasing Akula's in lieu for our SSK's requirement is not a prudent idea. The Russians dont come Cheap, 600 million for 10 years is no way cheap. I have mentioned the Greek idea a while back, it is the most easiest and best decision, especially since the Navy wants a second line of a different type of Sub.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Apr 2010 22:46

Philip wrote:True,the latest Kilos are better than earlier ones,but the Kilo is around 3000t fully loaded and the smaller SSKs are perhaps better suited for littoral warfare in the anti-sub role.The Kilos,especially if also fitted with an AIP system,would be ideal for the IOR equipped with 300+km B'Mos.


The Kilo is quite capable sub in littoral and open ocean and the fact that its still being exported as one of the most capable SSK says a lot about it.

We wont get a AIP or Brahmos on it , not unless we fund the R&D effort for it and its not worth as Kilo has a endurance of ~ 45 - 50 days and the Klub has no match for it.

Since we have customised the kilo with Indian Sonar and ESM , Kilo 636M is natural successor with similar Indian systems and not much logistics hassle

A maintenance headache agreed,but just imagine the headache for the enemy when faced with 3 different types of conventional sub tech and the cocktail of weaponry at the IN's disposal,an absolutely lethal combination!


Well it will be a logistics and training nightmare for the IN to operate 3 types of SSK :shock:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby VinayG » 08 Apr 2010 00:47

Kavu wrote:Our requirement is for 24 SSK's and -10 SSN's 6 SSBN's
Leasing Akula's in lieu for our SSK's requirement is not a prudent idea. The Russians dont come Cheap, 600 million for 10 years is no way cheap. I have mentioned the Greek idea a while back, it is the most easiest and best decision, especially since the Navy wants a second line of a different type of Sub.


sir the biggest problem with MOD is it dosent yeild till it burns its fingers. most of the time when it comes to buying new weaponary or modernization we do the things in the hard way.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby VinayG » 08 Apr 2010 01:00

Austin wrote:
Philip wrote:True,the latest Kilos are better than earlier ones,but the Kilo is around 3000t fully loaded and the smaller SSKs are perhaps better suited for littoral warfare in the anti-sub role.The Kilos,especially if also fitted with an AIP system,would be ideal for the IOR equipped with 300+km B'Mos.


The Kilo is quite capable sub in littoral and open ocean and the fact that its still being exported as one of the most capable SSK says a lot about it.

We wont get a AIP or Brahmos on it , not unless we fund the R&D effort for it and its not worth as Kilo has a endurance of ~ 45 - 50 days and the Klub has no match for it.

Since we have customised the kilo with Indian Sonar and ESM , Kilo 636M is natural successor with similar Indian systems and not much logistics hassle

A maintenance headache agreed,but just imagine the headache for the enemy when faced with 3 different types of conventional sub tech and the cocktail of weaponry at the IN's disposal,an absolutely lethal combination!


Well it will be a logistics and training nightmare for the IN to operate 3 types of SSK :shock:


austin sir actually the the Rubin Central Maritime Design Bureau, St Petersburg. Subsequent developments have led to the current production versions, the Type 877EKM and the Type 636. A successor, the Lada (Project 677) was launched in November 2004.were it is developing an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system which could be available for retrofit to the other versions of kilo class subs.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo/

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 08 Apr 2010 01:05

Navy Takes Charge Of Shivalik For Systems Evaluation Before Commissioning

It may not be normal practice to hand over a ship or a submarine to the service before commissioning, but MoD sources confirmed to Mohtarma, while South Block denied today, the handing over of the country's first indigenous stealth frigate, Shivalik, to the Navy on March 30.


She was handed over by MDL, to carry out mandatory systems checks and is currently undergoing systems evaluation and crew training before the commissioning which is likely this month.


The ship is doing sorties in the Arabian Sea, while its 300 strong crew gets ready for her commissioning. As was first reported by Mohtarma, Naval spokesperson Cdr P V Satish today denied the report which appeared here on April 3, that there was nothing in between a launch and commissioning of a ship, therefore handing over of Shivalik to the Navy before its commission had not taken place. Sources have confirmed that handing over was not normal but has taken place for Shivalik, before her commissioning which will take place later this month.


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 08 Apr 2010 04:47

RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik
This raises a series of questions, above all concerning the ability of the Russian industry to build an aircraft carrier now. Seeing the Plodding Way in which Admiral Gorshkov is being Upgraded for India, Russian shipbuilders are unlikely to do without foreign assistance, and the Russian naval commander-in-chief's interest in French shipbuilding is understandable.
Link

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 08 Apr 2010 09:00

From shyamd's x-post:
IOL: French govt has ruled that ATE will not be able to sell gear for JF-17, but DCNS will be allowed to make an imminent sale to TSP. HDW is also negotiating sales to India for 6 subs. HDW was supposed to sell U214s to TSP, but talks have broke down. DCNS is allowed to sell to TSP only because India has completed the purchase for scorpene's and looks like Delhi has made it clear it wont be buying anymore and no chance of sales to India.

What ( for the bolded part)??

We will not be getting even the 6+6 scorpenes and we are ending up at only 6 scorpenes? Where will the rest come from given any new deal will take atleast 8-10 years to fructify?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 08 Apr 2010 09:07

er, vinay, could you go easy on the flag waving ?
thanks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 08 Apr 2010 12:02

We already are operating Kilos,Foxtrots and U-209s,plus the new N-boats ATV and Akula on its way.So operating 3 types of conventional subs should not be beyond the IN's capabilities,remembering that newer types will replace older types in service,such as say Amurs for Kilos.In addition,a lot of commonality can be worked out within the types such as NHPP scopes,sonars,if our indigenous sonar has proved its worth,and some other items of eqpt.It is worth the IN trying out both MESMA and a fuel-cell AIP and determine which is the most practical to operate in our IOR context.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 08 Apr 2010 12:29

More the number of types, lesser the sortie rates and more the cost of operations. India needs to cut down on types. Subs are all about sensors, Germans and French excel in this, better keep Russians to the Nuclear side of things.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 08 Apr 2010 12:40

Philip wrote:We already are operating Kilos,Foxtrots and U-209s,plus the new N-boats ATV and Akula on its way.So operating 3 types of conventional subs should not be beyond the IN's capabilities,remembering that newer types will replace older types in service,such as say Amurs for Kilos.In addition,a lot of commonality can be worked out within the types such as NHPP scopes,sonars,if our indigenous sonar has proved its worth,and some other items of eqpt.It is worth the IN trying out both MESMA and a fuel-cell AIP and determine which is the most practical to operate in our IOR context.


In reality we operate 2 conventional subs for Operational purpose , the foxtrot is more of a training sub.

If operating 3 types of sub is such a compelling operational advantage , then navies around the world would have operated 2 to 3 types of SSK. Infact I do not know of any Navy that operated 2 types of SSK in the world one from East and other West , they operate a single type in numbers and blocks which is good enough.

Infact we operate 2 SSK mainly because for historical reasons where buying x from SU was mandatory and buying y from West was to maintain the right political balance.

The most cost effective approach is to pick one design and build up on in various blocks with capability enhancement added as technology matures.

Its insane enough to operate 2 types of SSK adding 3rd types will be a circus.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 09 Apr 2010 12:41

One has to look at the advanced navies with nuclear boats,who operate several different types and with the Russians,French,Chinese and earlier British,also operate convetional subs.It is not "insane",just look at China.They operate 3 types of modern conventional subs-2 Chinese designs and Kilo 636s.Older boats are still in service to make up numbers for coastal defence and training.They also operate thre nuclear boat types.As the older types retire,fewer newer types will replace them.In the IN's context,we have to look at the weaponry that the sub is carrying.A larger B'Mos equipped sub will by virtue of its larger size,be less effective in the SSK role that smaller subs dedicated for that purpose.Conversely,the SSK will have less ocean-going capability and stand-off strike capability against land targets and LR attacks against surface shipping than a sub with B'mos.

Now even Russia operates Kilos,Amur/Ladas and yet another secret type,the B-90 Sarov class which is rumoured to have a hybrid small N-reactor and regular diesel engines.Apart from these classes,it operates several classes of SSBNs and SSGNs.The IN is actually in a unique position where it can gather together the best of the world's conventional sub manufacturers (we already operate German,Russian and will be adding French to the list and will for at least a decade operate three types of convetional subs,Kilos,Scorpenes and U-209s),determine which tech suits littoral and open warfare best (design our own sub for the future to fill these roles,perhaps like the Amur a "family" of different sized subs for diff. roles) and operate SSBNs and SSGNs too.

What we need is a small-med sized AIP sub .very quiet, with weaponry required to pick off enemy subs in shallow littoral waters,primarily aimed against Pak. and which can be based/stationed in the Andamans to sanitise the Malacca Straits choke point and also operate in confined Gulf waters.It would require two sizes of tubes so that Shkval cab be carried.It could carry all the Klub versions and AIP would also give it a two week totally submerged endurance.Because of its size,Brahmos equipped subs with AIP would be considerably larger and these subs would have about 8 B.mos missiles in addition to the 18 or so torpedoes/missiles in the torpedo compartment.These "all-rounders" would be required to operate in waters all over the IOR and even in the S.China Sea/Pacific if required.Operating in these waters,their role would be to destroy PLAN warships and subs entering or exiting the Malacca Straits and attacking PLAN naval bases in any major conflict with China.The nuclear powered boats would have true blue-water capability anywhere on the globe.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 15:39

Russia just operates just one class, The other two types are test platforms or research platforms. Lada/Amurs when inducted will replace the Kilos.

Chinese are still running Russian designs from 40's and 50's, Romeo class. They are nobody to be emulated, and their other classes are copies of the Russian classes with other names. If by the 2030, we can reduce the type to one model of SSK, SSN and SSBN and in sufficient numbers coming up to 75 or above, then we have succeed

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 09 Apr 2010 15:49

The US has a single SSN ,SSBN model and still maintained an advantage over Soviet Union for most of the time. They took a single SSN and build it in blocks and improvised with each block.

The Virginia SSN are too being built in blocks with capability enhancement added as technology matures , the Russian too improved on Akula and Kilo SSK and build a better model of the basic type.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby maz » 09 Apr 2010 15:51

Chennai launch photofeature is up at
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 3eb4b5fdde

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby bodhi » 09 Apr 2010 21:47

thank you!!!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Apr 2010 05:34

Now would be a good time to update the BR Kolkata class webpage, which does not even list the name of the just-launched INS Chennai:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Kolkata.html
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 10 Apr 2010 08:38

Suraj wrote:list the name of the just-commissioned INS Chennai:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Kolkata.html


Its launch of INS Chennai with just hull completed , it will be 5 years more before its commissioned

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sum » 10 Apr 2010 10:18

Karwar port harbours a white elephant

The powerful, completely bullet-proof interceptor, with engine packing 275 HP of power and capable of doing 80 nautical miles an hour did just that for a while, vrooming around off the coast. And then, mysteriously it went into a limbo, anchored in the harbour.

The boat, equipped to carry 16 policemen and four crew, and an impressive light machine gun (LMG) mounted in the bow, did not stir out in the aftermath of 26/11, when suddenly there was all-round concern about the porosity of the western coast. The Coast Guard, for some reason, hired private boats to patrol the coast.

Moored in the harbour, the boat developed barnacles and is now upended for repairs to its keel and hull.

Asked about the boat, authorities cite the non-avilability of operating crew and fuel to power it. Apparently, it was sent to Karwar without any personnel to operate it. Fuel to operate it is also not available. The hi-tech boat which was supposed to strengthen the preparedness of Coast Guard never did fulfil its mandate.

In short, the security interceptor is anchored in the Port Authority like a white elephant.

:-?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21055
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 10 Apr 2010 11:48

More "sub"-servience to Uncle Sam! The rot has really set in to the MOD.Almost all defence decisions these days are in favour of ther US.

"Consequently, as CAG reports have lamented, India continues to remain dependent on 'a foreign source' (US navy) for robust rescue facilities. "


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 780037.cms

Excerpt:
India, US to enhance sub rescue measures
Rajat Pandit, TNN, Apr 10, 2010, 02.12am IST

NEW DELHI: Away from the glamour of the forthcoming Malabar naval wargames and battling terrorism-piracy on the high seas, India and US are now on course to enhance measures to rescue Indian sailors if they get trapped deep underwater in a disabled submarine.

Even as the US chief of naval operations Admiral Gary Roughead is slated to hold talks with defence minister A K Antony, Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma and other top military brass next week, India is looking to extend the scope of US Navy's "global submarine rescue fly-away kit service" for its requirements.

When India had first inked the contract for the rescue service in 1997, with an initial payment of $734,443, it was meant to be more of an interim measure till Navy acquired DSRVs (deep submergence rescue vessels) of its own.

A DSRV or 'mini submarine' can, after all, rescue 24 sailors at a time from a depth of around 600 metres after 'mating' with the hatch of the stricken submarine, equipped as it is with pressurised chambers, sonars, cameras and other advanced facilities.

But, 13 years later, Navy is still far away from getting something as basic and critical as DSRVs, despite the country spending big bucks on importing military hardware and software.

.

Kavu
BRFite
Posts: 127
Joined: 18 Mar 2010 18:42

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 10 Apr 2010 12:42

Philip wrote:More "sub"-servience to Uncle Sam! The rot has really set in to the MOD.Almost all defence decisions these days are in favour of ther US.

"Consequently, as CAG reports have lamented, India continues to remain dependent on 'a foreign source' (US navy) for robust rescue facilities. "


This kind of slander is uncalled for, Do you know even Russia has given Sub-Rescue contracts to US and UK. What do you mean MoD has given US, some C-17, Artillery pieces, C-130J's etc, which has no comparable russian systems, but to Russian 270 MKI, Subs, Talwars etc and what not.

Read up, and hopefully you can see it through neutral eyes and stop the slander against my Defense forces and Government just because they dont buy it from your favorite vendors.
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=43014
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/us ... escue.html
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/SID-16C81F4C ... ?mode=news

UK, France and Norway has a new model which is just about equal to the American model, The Russian models failed to work during the Kursk disaster, and the UK send their job, which finally got the job done. Russia has joined up in ISMERLO, singularly because their equipment and design was found lacking.

Kavu
BRFite
Posts: 127
Joined: 18 Mar 2010 18:42

Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kavu » 10 Apr 2010 16:27

Now that is a beautiful Ship, Mulitple pictures of INS Shivalik at High Seas @ Livefist.

Gentlemen, We have outdone ourselves here.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/04/ex ... ndias.html

Credit to our dear friend at Livefist.


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