Indian Naval Discussion

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 30 Apr 2010 07:21

Moskva @ Kochi

Russian Federation Naval Ship (RFNS) Moskva , a Guided Missile Cruiser would call at Kochi on 30th April. Captain 1st Rank Igor Vladimirovich Smolyak, Deputy Commander of the Naval Formation, Black Sea Fleet is embarked onboard. The Ship is commanded by Captain 1st Rank Sergey Ivanovich Tronev and has a complement of 51 Officers and 464 enlisted Men.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Boudhayan » 30 Apr 2010 08:58

I know this might be a stupid question, please do not start jumping on me. :(

Why does the Shivalik not carry the Brahmos missiles ? They are supposed to be one of the best and deadliest cruise missile available and produced in India ( would add to the indigenous element to our Shivalik also). Atleast by that the enemy ship's air defence will not have time to react as would be the case with Klub missiles (its not a fully supersonic missile, it goes for a supersonic dart towards the end of it's flight).

Frankly speaking I am not finding any reason for not adding this "super-slayer" Brahmos to the Shivalik(s). I know I might have missed this in the different articles that have been published on Shivalik but doing a re-check on the articles I find no mention of Brahoms. Any Gurus ready to help out this novice please ????

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 30 Apr 2010 09:43

Is the classification Frigate given to the shivalik because it is somewhat limited in offensive capability? It only carries 8 anti ship missiles and only 1 Shitl-1 MR-SAM.

Compare the 3000 tons Kashin - Rajput class are classified as Destroyers. While they all carry 4 styx now 4 brahmos missiles. Only two of that class has Brahmos and one has the universal missile launcher that can launch a dhanush - so far.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby b_patel » 30 Apr 2010 10:08

Frankly speaking I am not finding any reason for not adding this "super-slayer" Brahmos to the Shivalik(s). I know I might have missed this in the different articles that have been published on Shivalik but doing a re-check on the articles I find no mention of Brahoms. Any Gurus ready to help out this novice please ????

The Brahmos is expensive for one, and it is also a very large missile. Where could you actually fit a decent amount of them on the Shivalik? I think it might have come down to the lack of room on the Shivalik, I'm not sure. Or in actual combat missions the Shivaliks would work in tandem with a Dehli or Kolkata destroyer which are armed with the Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2010 10:27

people should be demanding more helicopters , torpedoes, UUVs and asroc style missiles and better ciws than beating the tired old horse of "we need more brahmos". what for? to sink some 50 yr old paki ffg that can barely crawl out of harbour on its own power?

subnarines of PN and PLAN are and will be the biggest threat to indian shipping for the next couple of decades atleast. and we sure do not have a fleet of SSNs to manage that threat nicely.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 30 Apr 2010 11:04

One of the solutions is to have more ASW helos in a 24x7 ring around a fleet.
Pakistan's 3 new Agosta 90bs are a threat that the IN will have to bring into calculations.

But I can see what the IN has in store for Pakistan should a war break out.

1. The larger platforms will enforce a naval blockade. The range of the missiles on board will give the IN sufficient standoff range to take out Karachi, Port Qasim, Gawadar, the radars in Sonmiani and Manora. ASW assets are principally required for these large platforms from lone wolf agostas out on soosai missions.

2, IN's small platforms, the ones which can do 40 knots - the missile boat fleet with upto 16 Kh-35s has sufficient speed and firepower to ingress and obliterate coastal and inland targets, while at the same time exit the area before pakistan with its poor detection capabilities even knows what hit them.

The IN will be operating under the umbrella of Su-30 MKIs and Mig-21 Bisons, with Maritime Jaguars also attacking pakistan's naval assets.

The US and Chinese supplied warships will allow them to survive some more but there is so much excess firepower with INs western fleet, that the poor pakistanis just don't stand a chance.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 30 Apr 2010 11:13

Gentlemen,we will have far newer PN warships and subs to deal with,JIangwei-2 Chinese frigates and the largesse of 8 OH Perry class ASW frigates that Uncle Sam is so generously gifting Pak to fight the Taliban with.The Perry frigates are being transferred in "hot condition",meaning that whatever USN sensors and weaponry is aboard stays with the Pakis.I am sure that the IN will relish the thought of some target practice at sea in the future!

As for B'Mos on the Shivaliks,definitely will be on the 17-A follow on vessels,just as the second batch of Talwars are to carry them.The P-17s designed well over a decade ago,has taken almost a decade to build! Hopefully,the P-17As will be able to carry 16 B.Mos missiles just as the Kol DDGs.What the frigates lack though is a long range ASW missile.Now theoretically the Klub silos can carry them and so can they be launched from 21" TTs.This would however require long range detection capabilities through ASW helos or from other sensors/warships through NCW.Apart from ASW Klubs,the Russians also have the Medvedka system,which is the equivalent of an ASW rocket launcher with a crucial difference in that the warhead is a lightwieght torpedo which can hunt an enemy sub down several hundeds of meters.The follow on Shivaliks can be further upgraded to carry multiple systems for ASW/anti-ship and anti-air.The single arm launcher for theShtils can also be replaced either by Shtil VLS or the Barak LR missile,whichever is to become the standard MR missile for the IN.Building the follow on series is going to be a massive challenge for the IN as we have had in recent times delays in virtually every homebuilt warship or sub,with only foreign purchases coming relatively on schedule (other than the Gorshkov!).The follow on ASW frigates should also be equipped with another force multiplier,UUVs! Unmanned underwater vehicles are being used by "major league" nuclear subs as o now,to penetrate shore defences,clandestine ops,etc.ASW frigates with a couple of UUVs working in tandem with the mother ship could prove to be invaluable as it reportedly takes a min. of three platforms to accurately locate a sub.

PS:Regarding the threat froim subs,pl. take note of NoKo's assymetric warfare strategy/tactics against the SoKo fleet as quoted below.
According to the Chosun Ilbo, "North Korea has over the last 10 to 20 years been developing what is called an 'asymmetric strategy,' which involves focusing on areas, however small, where South Korea is inferior to the North or lacking altogether. One part of this strategy is submarines. The North is believed to have a fleet of around 70 submarines, including some 20 1,830-t Romeo-class subs and 20 330-t Shark-class subs."

Due to their age, the submarines had been deeemed only a minor threat, since they had noisy engines and inability to operate in the shallow coastal waters of the East China Sea. Yet, the sinking of the South Korean navy corvette Cheonan could significantly alter that perception.

As reported by the Chosun, "there are growing concerns in the South Korean military that it's anti-submarine warfare capabilities may not be up to the challenges. The South Korean Navy's battleships, 10 submarines and P3C Orion anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft can detect subs, but there is considerable skepticism about their ability to incapacitate the entire North Korean submarine fleet. Former South Korean defense minister Kim Jang-soo said recently that he heard the military is capable of detecting less than 50 percent of North Korean submarines."

To learn more about how North Korea can easily defeat South Korea, link here:
Tmcgregordallas@yahoo.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sombhat » 30 Apr 2010 11:35

Singha wrote:suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.

Chhindits blog will go off the public view due to Arihant pics. Now the generous mohtarma will invite other worthies for the pics only. I am sure I will not be one of the invitees. Now can Singha ji's heron get itself invited??

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 30 Apr 2010 11:40

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 730565.JPG

The surface of the ship is not a smooth one.
What are the reasons for this? Isn't the curvature of the surface adding to the stealth properties. Why are there undulating forms on the surface

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2010 12:03

Et tu marcus aurelius? as a centurion in a elite legion this was not expected!

welcome to the "hungry horse effect" - lets the games begin.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 30 Apr 2010 14:29

ramana wrote:Pioneer reports:

First indigenous warship commissioned

IANS | Mumbai

INS Shivalik, the first indigenous stealth frigate in the Indian Navy, was commissioned Thursday by Deffence Minister AK Antony at the naval dockyard here. {Snipped} ....................

The frigate, built at Mumbai's Mazagaon Dock Ltd (MDL) as part of the Indian Navy's Project 17, is a 143-metre-long warship with 6,000-tonne displacement. It has numerous new design features to effectively reduce the probability of the warship being detected at sea.

The navy will get 10 more stealth warships in the next 10 years.
{Snipped} ................


I like the frigate description for ship 6000 tons displacement! used to be cruiser in the old days. And the 130 ship navy is a good thing. IN should work on a servce to service agreement with the neighborhood navies(other than the terrorists) to increase the strength say 200 ships.


INS Shivalik’s displacement is not 6,000 tonnes but rather is 6,200 tonnes going by the below article by Rajat Pandit in TOI 8) .

The 6,200 tonne displacement figure for INS Shivalik has been independently confirmed by BR’s very own Kapil who was there for the commissioning along with Maz.

Extract from the TOI article:

……………….. India's stealthiest warship till now, the 6,200-tonne frigate INS Shivalik, with a lethal mix of weapons and sensors, was commissioned by defence minister A K Antony at the naval dockyard here on Thursday. ………………..

"She is not invisible to enemy radars...after all, she is 6,200 tonnes of steel. But stealth is all about hitting someone before he hits you. The aim is to ensure shorter ranges at which you can be detected, not invisibility,'' he added. …………………


Read it all:

Country's first indigenously-built stealth warship commissioned

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nrshah » 30 Apr 2010 14:37

NS Shivalik’s displacement is not 6,000 tonnes but rather is 6,200 tonnes going by the below article by Rajat Pandit in TOI 8) .


Current edition of wiki is saying 6000 Tones as standard displace with max being 7462 tonnes....

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 30 Apr 2010 14:41


arun
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 30 Apr 2010 14:47

sombhat wrote:
Singha wrote:suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.

Chhindits blog will go off the public view due to Arihant pics. Now the generous mohtarma will invite other worthies for the pics only. I am sure I will not be one of the invitees. Now can Singha ji's heron get itself invited??


If that is what will happen then it is reminiscent of antics best suited to a self publicist teen rather than conduct becoming of a professional journalist :shock: .

Fret not. If those photographs are meant to be in the public domain they will be available with other journalist and newspapers. Else they are either a fabrication or a breach of the Official Secrets Act.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 30 Apr 2010 14:58

If the Arihant's pictures are to be released, they will be taken by a Navy Photographer, the photos vetted by the Navy brass, agreed to by GoI and then released to the media.

No question of ONE blog writer getting a scoop out of thin air. If a photo comes out, rest assured shukla ji and shiv aroor will publish too.

This is a cons-pee-racy by GoI to supersede my diagrams from wiki - now everyone'll know.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 30 Apr 2010 15:01

8)

Guys,I am still recovering.
I have attended every commissioning in Mumbai since January 2001 (INS Mumbai) and I must say this is the most sophisticated and well-built ship that has ever flown the Indian Ensign.
Fabrication is top-notch;fit and finish are like a super cruiseliner.
Habitablity,work spaces,living spaces are generous.
You have to realise this was a concept;nopbody knew what will they end up with.And what has happened is beyond anyone's expectations.
The main gun had its first firign on its very first sortie!!
The whole ship is always under an NBCD envelope.It does not have to be 'activated'

Why is it a frigate?i think the IN classifies its ships by dimensions and in this case also by the fact that she is not as heavily equipped as the 15As.

It is the most nework centric ship that we have. She cane mbark a fleet staff and serve as a flagship if required. The bridge,machinery control etc are all built with multiple redundancies.
She has completed all pre-commissioning checks ,workups with ease. She is a frontline fighting unit as of yesterday ready to sail at 4 hours notice anywhere int he world.
She can stay out longer than any other ship we have . We are devloping our own prorietory datalinks for these ships.
The CO gave a hypothetical scenario where ships at different locations can transfer sensor data to the Shivalik and the ship can respond as required. They will plug in with the Phalcons too eventually.
The fiber-optics,the various software make it a class apart.
The CO ,Capt M D Suresh ,has previously been the commissioning XO of the INS Talwar.
This ship is more lethal and stealthier than that class of ships.
Also the crew complement of the 6200 tonne Shivalik is the same as that of the 4000 tonne Talwar.

They have an interesting logo which shows an open spiral superimposed on a diamond.The diamond signifies the RCS of the ship and the spiral signifies infinity which is also their motto of 'No limits'

This ship is the template for all other indigeneous programmes such as the P15B,P17 follow on,the P28 etc and that is why they spent more time validating and ensuring everything works pre-commissioning. She is the most complete ship that has been commissioned ie she doesnt have to do any major trials etc now.
She will test fire certain weapon systems now ,because there are certain things you can do only if you fly the flag of a country and not a dockyard.
Similarly,her helo phase workup will also commmence now.
The only pending work-up now is the FOST workup (Flag Officer Sea Training).This is going to be a demanding workup because here both the men and systems will be tested in various situations.
The startlingly young crew are rather looking forward to it.

More later.Pics also later.
Shoot your questions in case I have overlooked something.

Cheers

Kapil

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby narayana » 30 Apr 2010 16:03

Kapil wrote:8)
Guys,I am still recovering.
Kapil


Hi Kapil,

Long back i posted a note requesting payment mode for aero india 2009 cd,can you please let me know if i can do a direct deposit in any bank for that,i am not interested in online payments

sorry for OT,but even after repeated requests i didn't get reply from you then

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 30 Apr 2010 16:25

narayana wrote:
Kapil wrote:8)
Guys,I am still recovering.
Kapil


Hi Kapil,

Long back i posted a note requesting payment mode for aero india 2009 cd,can you please let me know if i can do a direct deposit in any bank for that,i am not interested in online payments

sorry for OT,but even after repeated requests i didn't get reply from you then


Hi Narayana,

Sorry.I must have goofed that time.
Pls mail me on kapil at bharat hyphen rakshak dot com
and I'll revert

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Mayuresh » 30 Apr 2010 16:26

Gagan wrote:One of the solutions is to have more ASW helos in a 24x7 ring around a fleet.
Pakistan's 3 new Agosta 90bs are a threat that the IN will have to bring into calculations.

But I can see what the IN has in store for Pakistan should a war break out.

1. The larger platforms will enforce a naval blockade. The range of the missiles on board will give the IN sufficient standoff range to take out Karachi, Port Qasim, Gawadar, the radars in Sonmiani and Manora. ASW assets are principally required for these large platforms from lone wolf agostas out on soosai missions.

2, IN's small platforms, the ones which can do 40 knots - the missile boat fleet with upto 16 Kh-35s has sufficient speed and firepower to ingress and obliterate coastal and inland targets, while at the same time exit the area before pakistan with its poor detection capabilities even knows what hit them.

The IN will be operating under the umbrella of Su-30 MKIs and Mig-21 Bisons, with Maritime Jaguars also attacking pakistan's naval assets.

The US and Chinese supplied warships will allow them to survive some more but there is so much excess firepower with INs western fleet, that the poor pakistanis just don't stand a chance.


Asked this Q on Newbie too, but without a reply :(

If the IN has ground-based forces, can the IN raise a ground-based regiment of BrahMos-LACM (i.e. MK-2) on mobile autonomous launchers mounted on Tatra Trucks and position them on the Gujarat coast (say near INS Dwarka, but spread out around it, or probably near AFS Bhuj/Jamnagar and operated by the IAF, if IN does not have ground-based forces). Have the co-ordinates for key installations in Karachi, Gwadar and all other Paki naval bases hard-coded into to them and have them on launch alert all the while. In the event of a war, take out all the Paki naval bases in the first hr. - Paki Ships either stranded at sea or destroyed if they are berthing on any port

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Nandan D » 30 Apr 2010 17:22

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 729221.JPG

Is this opening, next to the door for the torpedoes? Or are the torpedoes behind the boat deck radar suppression screens? Anyone spot them?


I am almost certain that this is the opening for the torpedoes. This is similar to Talwar.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Nandan D » 30 Apr 2010 17:23

Sorry if this has been covered, but what are the two helos?
Kamovs or Dhruv?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2010 17:31

hopefully EC725-N :evil:

we need sea kings all retired or restricted to training sorties and kamovs for smaller frigates like talwar but retired from any large p17 type ship.
maybe surplus can be used as spares reserve or shore based ASW patrols around major naval harbours and chokepoints.

we need around 50 EC725 to start with, if one includes the ADS and Vikramaditya coming online with 10 x 2 and 20 more spread between
10 capital ships. plus 10 as training and reserve.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 30 Apr 2010 18:26

Any impartial observer would immediately notice the similarity in concept between the French stealth frigates/destroyers,the La Fayette class and the P-17s.However,the interesting fact is that the P-28s ,the Kamorta just launched,with their "X" section of the superstructure, resemble the German Meko classes of surface combatants rather than the French/Shivalik.One would hope that the IN' design teams get adventurous and begin to design build catamarans,trimarans,SWATH ships and other concepts which offer tremendous advantages over traditional hulls,both in terms of speed and stealth.These concepts could be first tried out in the smaller corvette/fast attack craft.patrol craft classes around and below 1000t and then employed on larger ships.The USN and RN have their littoral warfare frigate and tri-maran designs already in service.

The large displacement of the Shivalik and the apparent lack of "heavy" weaponry like B'Mos or even more Klubs is interesting.The Delhi class,not much larger displacement wise carry quite a punch,16 SSMs,two MR SAM Shtil launchers and Barak PDMS + gatlings.The 15-As will carry Brahmos.One hopes that the later versions of the Shivalik class will carry a heavier weaponload with VLS modules for missiles and upgraded weaponry.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ArmenT » 30 Apr 2010 21:35

sombhat wrote:
Singha wrote:suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.

Chhindits blog will go off the public view due to Arihant pics. Now the generous mohtarma will invite other worthies for the pics only. I am sure I will not be one of the invitees. Now can Singha ji's heron get itself invited??

If that's her idea of security, she's truly crazy. So she's going to post pictures on a server that is located god-knows-where and owned by an American company. What makes her think a sysadmin admin can't get to those pics?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 30 Apr 2010 21:40

A small clip of the CO giving his perspectives.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z381nIdibXM

Kapil

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 30 Apr 2010 21:41

Philip wrote:Any impartial observer would immediately notice the similarity in concept between the French stealth frigates/destroyers,the La Fayette class and the P-17s.However,the interesting fact is that the P-28s ,the Kamorta just launched,with their "X" section of the superstructure, resemble the German Meko classes of surface combatants rather than the French/Shivalik.One would hope that the IN' design teams get adventurous and begin to design build catamarans,trimarans,SWATH ships and other concepts which offer tremendous advantages over traditional hulls,both in terms of speed and stealth.These concepts could be first tried out in the smaller corvette/fast attack craft.patrol craft classes around and below 1000t and then employed on larger ships.The USN and RN have their littoral warfare frigate and tri-maran designs already in service.

The large displacement of the Shivalik and the apparent lack of "heavy" weaponry like B'Mos or even more Klubs is interesting.The Delhi class,not much larger displacement wise carry quite a punch,16 SSMs,two MR SAM Shtil launchers and Barak PDMS + gatlings.The 15-As will carry Brahmos.One hopes that the later versions of the Shivalik class will carry a heavier weaponload with VLS modules for missiles and upgraded weaponry.

DCNintl was consulted for Shivalik's design hence the resemblance to La fayette. As for its displacement it is primarily due to the fact it was based on Talwar frigate and extending the design (improved mast design and other RCS reduction in its superstructure, hangers) contributed to the gain in displacement while it was still limited to same armament load of Talwar.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 30 Apr 2010 21:47

I want to see the new frigate/destroyer they are building from Shivalik to P-17A and P-15A , P-28 focuses its effort on ASW and Air Defence as primary system and antiship/LACM as secondary feature.

We really need good ship and in numbers focus on ASW and Airdefence task due to proliferation of silent submarines and supersonic anti-ship missile

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ManuJ » 30 Apr 2010 22:47

Austin wrote:Maz has confirmed after todays event that the SSR we see on P-17 is the new Israel "AMDR ER" , so this should rest all speculations on SSR we had till date.

Kapil, can you please confirm whether the new "AMDR ER" is the EL/M-2238 STAR or a new radar? If new, what are the specs? Thanks.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupesh » 30 Apr 2010 23:46

Ideally we should order 10 ships of the Shivalik class. It will be a long time before the next design is finalized. Atleast this will help in building up the numbers.

****Dreaming**** by 2025 IN should look towards having a fleet of 30 destroyers , 45 frigates, 40 corvettes, 24 minesweepers, 30 diesel+16 nuke subs, 4 carriers and 6 LDP's... ***end of dream**** :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Katare » 30 Apr 2010 23:55

wow!! you are some dreamer!

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Anoop. A. » 01 May 2010 02:32

Rupesh wrote:Ideally we should order 10 ships of the Shivalik class. It will be a long time before the next design is finalized. Atleast this will help in building up the numbers.

If the Indian Navy likes the P17 ships, it is an ideal solution to go for larger number in the P17 series itself. 10 ship class is a good solution(theoretically) provided indian ship builders can churn out the remaining 7 ships in 5 to 6 years, by using a combined public/private sector involvment.

Practically, we all know that's not going to happen. :(

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 01 May 2010 08:27

One error on my picture outlining the various sensors and weapons on the Shivalik.
There does not appear to be a Shikari Director on board the Shivalik. The various domed mounts over the helo hanger are SATCOM equipment.

Click to get a larger image
Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shukla » 01 May 2010 09:44

Shiv Aroor reports..

Project-17(A) Frigates To Have Indian Weapon Fit, 127-mm Main Gun


According to Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) chairman Vice Admiral (Retd) HS Malhi, the follow on Alpha series will carry the BrahMos anti-ship and land attack supersonic cruise missile in vertical configuration and the Barak-8 long-range surface to air missile (LR-SAM). MDL will build four of the P17(A) frigates, while the Garden Reach Shipbuilders (GRSE) will build the other three in Kolkata. The class feature frigates that will be longer and broader than the Shivalik-class. And instead of the Italian Otobreda 76-mm super rapid gun mount (SRGM), the P17(A) warships will have a 127-mm main gun, most likely the Otobreda 127/64 light weight gun.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 01 May 2010 10:58

What is very interesting and a great coup for the IN's warship designers is how they have been able to pack such a powerful multi-purpose punch in a hull of 6,200t. I was comparing the P-17 design with the RN's future "C-1" combatant concept ,a medium sized frigate of similar size 6,000t,meant to arrive from 2012 onwards.It is very well designed with excellent forward superstructure shaping,but which has a less powerful punch.The fo'csle has only a main gun in "A" position,and VLS missiles (appear to be 32 in number) in "B" position.8 anti-ship missiles are mounted amidships between the funnel/stack and the helo hangar,which looks as if it can house only one large ASW helo or two med. sized ones.Though the hangar size is full width of the beam,there are side recesses for what apepars to be space for the launch/cutter.Ant-missile gatlings are atop the superstructure fore and aft.The key differences between the two in favour of the P-17 is that the Shivaliks have two anti-air missiles (instead of one),medium range Shtil and anti-missile Barak,plus I'm sure Manpads are also carried.In addition,it has space for an two large ASW/multi-role helos and also carries two anti-sub rocket launchers along with TTs! This is a very formidable class of ship and when the second batch comes along with Brahmos,a larger main gun,plus new longer range SAMs,the frigate will pack the most lethal punch of any warship of its class worldwide.One can't wait to see them arrive.
Last edited by Philip on 01 May 2010 11:01, edited 1 time in total.

Kapil
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 01 May 2010 10:59

Have to consolidate all images together;working on it.
Enjoy these for now



http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... /Shivalik/

Austin
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 May 2010 12:08

Snapshots From The Scorpene Production Line At Mazagon

As a result of major slippages and Mazagon Dock's inability to absorb certain technologies expediently -- but mostly through shoddy forward planning -- India's first Scorpene will only be delivered in the second half of 2015, instead of 2012. Scam or incompetence?



The MDL chief in "n"i number of interviews given to Force mag has insisted that Scorpene will be ready by 2012 , now that GOI has confirmed it would only be ready by 2nd half 2015 , Wonder if any action will be taken against MDL bosses.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby RoyG » 01 May 2010 12:16

2015 :eek:

Philip
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Philip » 01 May 2010 12:34

Tx Kaps for your great pics,however,what is that dreadful "cage" surrounding the Shtil launcher? It is anything but "stealthy"! One hopes that it is just temporary as it has not been seen on the other IN warships which use Shtil.Even small clutter topsides like the "cage" and other protuberances become reflectors.It reminds me about the HAL/DRDO boffins who wanted a "hole cut in the hangar" and allow a part of the Dhruv naval helo to stick out because the helo was too large for the Dhruv designed hangars! The interiors are certainly refreshing,however,the "white" ceiling lights could be yellow instead.Scandinavian behavioural studies have found out that the "colder" white coloured lights psychologically depress humans and cities with such lighting (MV) have higher crime stats,whereas those with "yellow" light fittings (SV) have a warmer feeling.It is why new energy saving bulbs come with "yellow" colour options.The all glass washbasin fitting in the toilet though would be lethal if broken or shattered if th ship suffers battle damage.An SS fititng would be safer and more practical.RN studies after the Falklnds War also found that gangways and access doors/hatches between the various ships' zones,had to be larger to allow sailors equipped with firefighting gear to pass through easily.The std. narrow hatches were obstacles to efficient fire-fighting. In materials used for interiors,they should all conform to the latest military fire norms where some plastic and other poroducts could cause highly toxic fumes to emanate if they caught fire.Furniture like chairs also preferably should be fixed to the floor so that they do not become internal missiles if the ship is hit! One wonders whether a behavioural psychologist was consulted when the ship's interiors were designed,as colour,lighting,shapes,etc. can have a profund influence upon the mood of the ship's company.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kapil » 01 May 2010 12:50

Hi Philip,

Thanks.
We wondered about the glass basin too. Hope its just a showpiece now.
The passageways etc are quite spacious for people to move about in.

The cabins and departments look ergonomically designed.I suppose they have mood lighting available.this is all off-the-shelf stuff
and furniture can be secured.
my picture shows the senior sailors dining room.it's lavish! well-deservedly so

ther interior pics are with The Maz.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 01 May 2010 13:52

India Rolls Out First Indigenous Stealth Warship
The Tribune

Image
In future the Navy is looking to have a data exchange system with the IAF’s Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS). A system is being integrated with the AWACS to provide data that may be out of the range of the ship. This will provide an edge in firing of weapons.

The naval satellite to be launched in the near future will help this ship to coordinate with other ships in the fleet for firing of weapons and will form the network centric operations. The combat management system developed by the Bharat electronic systems will give the ship’s captain a view of all weapons and data in one screen. For first time a battle-ready ship has been commissioned. Almost all the guns have been tested, the Commanding officer, Captain MD Suresh, said, adding that some of these were fired in the first test sortie with the ship builders on board.
Last edited by Juggi G on 01 May 2010 14:03, edited 1 time in total.


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