Indian Naval Discussion

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JimmyJ
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby JimmyJ » 27 Apr 2010 18:25

India to deploy indigenous coastal surveillance system

Being developed by the Bangalore-based defence PSU Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), the system includes radars and electro- optic and meteorological sensors and would be mounted on light- houses or towers at these locations, company officials said.

"It will give complete operational picture of the sea up to 20 km deep into the sea. So, all targets can be brought into a screen and they can be seen from regional centres,"


"We will start deploying the stations (at identified locations) by November or so," he added.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 27 Apr 2010 18:35

John wrote:
Neshant wrote:ecause it would cost too much.

Originally cost for program made it look it would have been cheaper to build them locally but after cost overruns and poor cost allocation the final price tag is much more than what Malaysians paid for French built Scorpene.


But the Indian Scorpene deal is also a TOT deal , so one needs to account for TOT cost as well . Plus we insisted all the sub will be built at MDL so infra cost to build it will make the whole deal costlier then Malaysian deal.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 27 Apr 2010 19:08


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 27 Apr 2010 19:29


Dmurphy
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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Dmurphy » 28 Apr 2010 07:01

India To Buy 50 Utility Copters for Navy

Was it not supposed to be a 360 odd chopper deal?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 28 Apr 2010 22:03

Russian missile cruiser to make port call in India

Russia's Moskva missile cruiser will make a port call in the southwestern Indian city of Kochi on Friday, a spokesman for the Russian Navy said on Wednesday.

The Moskva, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, left the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol on April 9. It is currently conducting a series of exercises in the Indian Ocean with the Northern Fleet's Pyotr Veliky heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser.

"The ships are carrying out drills on joint sailing and maneuvers, and holding combat training through interacting with each other at sea," the spokesman said.

The two vessels are due to arrive in Russia's Far Eastern port of Vladivostok in June-July to take part in the Vostok-2010 exercise. The exact date of the drills has yet to be announced.

Russia announced in 2007 that it was building up its naval presence throughout the world, and foreign port calls by Russian warships have become more frequent.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2010 08:48

All,

This thread has reached it's 72. Please post in the new thread.

Admins,

Please lock the thread.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 29 Apr 2010 08:53

arun wrote:All,

This thread has reached it's 72. Please post in the new thread.

Admins,

Please lock the thread.

arun ji, that's only for the TSP thread, this one will run upto 100 pages. please continue here for the time being.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2010 09:00

^^^ Thanks for pointing that out Rahul. I have deleted the fresh thread I created.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2010 09:02



In his interview by Bharat Verma, Rear Admiral K.N. Vaidyanathan says:

The boat deck has been concealed behind radar suppression screens.


Is this photograph on Suman Sharma’s blog the radar suppression screen :?: :

Clicky

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2010 09:23

No I think its just a perforated manhole for sea wash to clear down.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rupak » 29 Apr 2010 11:58

That 'thingy' is the Helicopter Landing Grid and is part of the traversing Systems


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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Fidel Guevara » 29 Apr 2010 12:51

World-class warships at Indian prices

Clearly the Navy proves that it is truly the Silent Service - just steadily going ahead with powerful indigeneous designs, with minimal backlash from the "import" lobby. Way to go!


Rear Admiral MK Badhwar, the navy’s design chief, explains how the navy got so far ahead of the army and air force in indigenising its weaponry. Shaken by the 1962 defeat at the hands of China, the army and the air force gratefully bought military equipment from whoever was willing to sell.

In contrast, India’s tiny navy took the far-sighted decision to build, rather than buy, its fleet. Today, the army and the air force are playing catch-up; latecomers to indigenisation, they are struggling with a technological leapfrog; attempting cutting-edge platforms like the Arjun tank and the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) without having first designed simpler weaponry.

The navy, in contrast, learned to walk before it tried to run. Starting with small landing craft in the 1960s, the learning curve rose through the increasingly complex design milestones of the Godavari class, the Brahmaputra class and the Khukri class frigates.

The first big DGND triumph came in the late 1990s, with the muscular 6,700-tonne Delhi class destroyers. Later this year, when INS Shivalik — the first of three 4,800-tonne stealth frigates — sails out of Mumbai’s Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL) to join the Indian Navy, it will feature in defence journals as one of the world’s cutting-edge warships.

India hasn’t just learned to build world-class warships; it has also learned to make them incredibly cheaply. The three Project 17 stealth frigates being built at MDL — INS Shivalik, INS Satpura and INS Sahyadri — will each cost Rs 2,600 crore (US $650 million).

The three Project 15-A Kolkata-class destroyers, bigger and more heavily armed warships, will each cost the navy Rs 3,800 crore (US $950 million), including the cost of long-term spare parts.

How does that compare with buying a warship in the global market? Ask Australia, which is buying three destroyers from Spanish shipyard, Navantia.

The three 6,250-tonne destroyers, fitted with the hot-selling Aegis radar and fire control system, will set Australia back by Rs 32,000 crore (US $8 billion). At about Rs 11,000 crore per destroyer, that is almost three times the cost India is paying for its Kolkata-class destroyers.

Despite paying a fraction of the cost, says Admiral Badhwar, the Kolkata class is the more powerful battleship. He points out: “Other than (the Aegis radar), the Australian warship doesn’t have much…. We have got much more packed into the Kolkata-class destroyer.


And by the way, what's with all this fancy new look at BRF? Where's the grey and black BRF we all know and love(d)?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sombhat » 29 Apr 2010 13:03

Chhindits blog mohtarma is reporting she has exclusive pics of Arihant. Worth a watch?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2010 13:06

suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2010 13:19

arun wrote:


In his interview by Bharat Verma, Rear Admiral K.N. Vaidyanathan says:

The boat deck has been concealed behind radar suppression screens.


Is this photograph on Suman Sharma’s blog the radar suppression screen :?: :

Clicky


Singha wrote:No I think its just a perforated manhole for sea wash to clear down.


Rupak wrote:That 'thingy' is the Helicopter Landing Grid and is part of the traversing Systems


Thanks Rupak and Singha. With that option foreclosed, I think I have figured it out.

Early photographs on Shiv Aroor’s blog dating back to the Shivalik’s first sea trial a recantugalar cavity just under the funnel with what looks like a boat on the deck within it visible: Early Photograph

Later photographs on his blog shown this cavity covered with what looks like a louvered screen: Later Photograph

Seems to me that is most likely the “ radar suppression screen” mentioned by Rear Admiral K.N. Vaidyanathan.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby parshuram » 29 Apr 2010 14:39

sombhat wrote:Chhindits blog mohtarma is reporting she has exclusive pics of Arihant. Worth a watch?

Women Have these Complicated things U know... Where the whole world cannot she can :wink:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 16:02

Singha wrote:suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.


:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 29 Apr 2010 16:04

Singha wrote:suman sharma in her blog post today promises first ever photos of the Arihant.

I would post a heron uav on her blog to report any activty.

probably gaganullah's MS paint arihant ! :P

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby shukla » 29 Apr 2010 16:27

MOD press release..

Antony Calls Upon Industry to Boost Ship Building Programmes of Indian Navy

The Defence Minister Shri AK Antony today called upon the Indian Industry to give their best in developing the country’s ship building programmes. Commissioning INS Shivalik, the first of three new stealth frigates for the Indian Navy in Mumbai, he said, over the years there has been a distinct shift in our policy from a “Buyer’s Navy’ to a ‘Builder’s Navy”.

He said the ship building industry has to modernize itself through indigenous efforts and minimize its dependence on imports. “We must continue with our efforts to transform and modernize our shipyards, so that they can not only meet the domestic demands but also achieve latest international standards in quality construction. We must be able to produce quality ships in a shorter time frame at competitive costs. I strongly urge all the participants of the Indian industry to give their best in developing our ship building programmes”.

He said time and again history has taught us to maintain a strong and vigilant navy. “Our maritime heritage dates back to the ancient times. Though we have come a long way in re-establishing our capabilities on the high seas since our independence, we still have a lot to achieve before we can consider ourselves a really potent naval force. History has time and again held out lessons in maintaining a strong and an eternally vigilant Navy”, the Defence Minister said.

Shri Antony said the security situation in and around our immediate neighbourhood poses several security related challenges. He reiterated that we have to maintain high levels of operational readiness at all times.

Shri Antony described the commissioning as a red letter day for the Indian Navy, our Armed Forces, the ship building industry and the entire nation. He said India’s long coastline and ever expanding exclusive economic zone make it imperative to defend our main land as well as maintain the sea lanes of communication. With the commissioning of the stealth frigate, he expressed confidence that the maritime interest will further secure.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Apr 2010 17:28

Maz has confirmed after todays event that the SSR we see on P-17 is the new Israel "AMDR ER" , so this should rest all speculations on SSR we had till date.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 29 Apr 2010 17:47

^ That is not AMDR (Automatic Missile Detection Radar aka EL/M 228S)

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Apr 2010 17:51

^^^ Thats the "new" AMDR ER

The ER probably stands for Extended Range.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby K_Rohit » 29 Apr 2010 18:04

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 729221.JPG

Is this opening, next to the door for the torpedoes? Or are the torpedoes behind the boat deck radar suppression screens? Anyone spot them? :?:

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 29 Apr 2010 18:20

Great achievement! What would be some of the impressive indigenous contributions to the Shivalik frigate?

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 29 Apr 2010 18:23

sunilUpa wrote:^ That is not AMDR (Automatic Missile Detection Radar aka EL/M 228S)


Will one of the learned pundits please educate this humble ignomary soul and give some details and the URL for this EL/M 228S or AMDR ER or what-ever-you-may-call-it of INS Shivalik ?

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sgopal » 29 Apr 2010 18:30

I believe this is the radar that is on INS Shivalik:
http://www.iai.co.il/34471-36667-en/Gro ... aspx?btl=1

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 29 Apr 2010 19:01

India commissions its first stealth warship
..................
The Navy currently has a 130-warship-strong fleet which includes an aircraft carrier, 20 landing ships, eight destroyers, 12 frigates and 16 attack submarines based in four commands headquartered in Mumbai (Western Naval Command), Visakhapatnam (Eastern Naval Command), Kochi (Southern Naval Command) and Port Blair (Andaman and Nicobar Joint Command).

Shivalik class warships can deal with multiple threat environment and are fitted with weapon suite comprising both area and point defence systems. It has sensors for air, surface and subsurface surveillance, electronic support and counter equipment and decoys for 'soft kill measures'.

Two more of the Shivalik class -- INS Sayahdri and INS Satpura -- would be ready for commissioning by November this year and middle of next year respectively.

"INS Shivalik has the latest stealth features to outsmart the enemy with low radar cross section, be it of the hull, infra-red or sound signatures," according to Navy's Director General for Naval Design Rear Admiral K N Vaidhyanathan.

"Shivalik is a steep jump in the indigenous design effort of the Directorate of Naval Design that has since 1954 designed 17 warships of different classes with 80 units built out of them. Currently, there are four designs from which 11 warships are under construction," he said.

Though the Shivalik project took the Navy nearly 12 years from the drawing board stage to its commissioning, Vaidhyanathan said new designs for warships the world over also had taken that much time.

The total indigenous effort accounting for 60 per cent of the cost is estimated to be Rs 2,300 crore per ship.

Shivalik class is equipped with a judicious mix of imported and indigenous weapon systems and sensors, including Barak surface-to-air missiles, 'Shtil' air defence system, rapid fire guns and basic anti-submarine warfare weapons.

The ship is powered by combined diesel and gas turbine (CODOG) propulsion system consisting one each of US-origin LM-2500 gas turbine engine and SEMT Pielstick diesel engine on each shaft driving a large diameter controllable pitch propeller.
.....................

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 29 Apr 2010 19:22

sgopal wrote:I believe this is the radar that is on INS Shivalik:
http://www.iai.co.il/34471-36667-en/Gro ... aspx?btl=1


Is this radar already used by IN on INS Beas (see http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Imag ... putra2.jpg) and probably one more 'Brahmaputra' class frigates ?

K

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby sgopal » 29 Apr 2010 19:25

I may be wrong, it may be the same radar, but, with extended range. If you read the pdf brochure attached to the link I mentioned, the radar can be configured in three different configurations, small, medium and large. INS Shivalik might be using the large configuration. It may well turn out to be a new class of radar as well.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby John » 29 Apr 2010 19:38

Austin wrote:Maz has confirmed after todays event that the SSR we see on P-17 is the new Israel "AMDR ER" , so this should rest all speculations on SSR we had till date.

it is good Maz was able to confirm that i orginally thought it was large variant of 2238 but could not find any pictures to confirm it. Specs seem pretty good to me on paper.

Austin wrote:But the Indian Scorpene deal is also a TOT deal , so one needs to account for TOT cost as well . Plus we insisted all the sub will be built at MDL so infra cost to build it will make the whole deal costlier then Malaysian deal.

But aren't there already reports that DCN was holding back on ToT to MDL on some key components of the submarine. IMO IN should have had a backup plan for the P-75 program which would have allowed us to back out of this deal if need be.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Gagan » 29 Apr 2010 19:44

Purely speculative:
The shivalik 3D radar looks a little bit like the radar on the Cavour - the italian aircraft carrier.
That one is the RAN 40L 3D D-band long-range radar.

Image

IN and Fincantieri have been collaborating for long, most recently on the fleet oiler.

Shivalik's Radar.
Image Image

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2010 20:40

the AMDR-L can detect incoming harpoon or exocet at 28km as per brochure, and assuming them at 800kmph, gives 28*5 = ~140 secs for Barak-1 and ak630 batteries to engage and chaff and floating decoys to be fired off.

if KA31 or Phalcon detect the missiles sooner we get more time.

against Klub/YJ8x missiles though the reaction time is reduced by 3-4 times. its touch and go and Klub is super deadly with small mach3.2 explosive dart.

the chinese Kilo 636 subs all have the Klub system and no doubt their Shang SSNs have some YJ missiles of similar ilk.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 02:25

Pioneer reports:

First indigenous warship commissioned

IANS | Mumbai

INS Shivalik, the first indigenous stealth frigate in the Indian Navy, was commissioned Thursday by Deffence Minister AK Antony at the naval dockyard here.

"It is a red letter day for the navy, armed forces and ship building industry of India. We can consider ourselves a really potent force," said the minister on the occasion.

He added that the "navy has to maintain eternal vigilance since we have a long coastline".

The frigate, built at Mumbai's Mazagaon Dock Ltd (MDL) as part of the Indian Navy's Project 17, is a 143-metre-long warship with 6,000-tonne displacement. It has numerous new design features to effectively reduce the probability of the warship being detected at sea.

The navy will get 10 more stealth warships in the next 10 years.


The in-built structural, thermal and acoustic stealth features augment the potent capability of the ship to address threats in all dimensions of maritime warfare.

Said MDL Chairman and Managing Director Vice Admiral (Retd) H.S. Malhi: "This ship is a testimony to the collaborative efforts of the MDL and the navy and in more ways than one, this project has raised the benchmarks in our indigenous warship design and shipbuilding efforts."

The warship is equipped with a mix of Indian, Russian, Israeli and Western weapons and sensors. A 250-member crew, including 35 officers, will man INS Shivalik.

It is equipped with state-of-the-art defence against nuclear, biological and chemical attacks.


It is also the first warship of the Indian Navy to provide for separate rooms for women crew.

"The ship has been constructed for considerable reduction in radar cross section signature and various measures have also been taken to suppress noise and vibration, infrared and magnetic signatures," said Malhi.

The other two frigates of this class are Satpura and Sahyadri. While the construction of INS Shivalik began in 2002, that of Satpura and Sahyadri started in 2004 and 2005 respectively.

The second of these ships is expected to be commissioned by the end of this year, and the other in 2011.

The follow-on of the Shivalik class would be Project 17 Alpha, under which a total of seven ships will be built.

The Indian Navy currently has a fleet of 130 warships, which includes an aircraft carrier, 20 landing ships, eight destroyers, 12 frigates and 16 attack submarines based in four commands, headquartered in Mumbai (Western Naval Command), Visakhapatnam (Eastern Naval Command), Kochi (Southern Naval Command) and Port Blair (Andaman and Nicobar Joint Command).



I like the frigate description for ship 6000 tons displacement! used to be cruiser in the old days. And the 130 ship navy is a good thing. IN should work on a servce to service agreement with the neighborhood navies(other than the terrorists) to increase the strength say 200 ships.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nachiket » 30 Apr 2010 02:36

ramana wrote:Pioneer reports:


I like the frigate description for ship 6000 tons displacement! used to be cruiser in the old days. And the 130 ship navy is a good thing. IN should work on a servce to service agreement with the neighborhood navies(other than the terrorists) to increase the strength say 200 ships.


It makes the Chennai just 800 tons heavier than the Shivalik and the Chennai is classified as a Destroyer. maybe the Shivalik should be as well.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 02:41

No. We dont want to scare folks. If IN says its a frigate then its frigate.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby nachiket » 30 Apr 2010 02:47

ramana wrote:No. We dont want to scare folks. If IN says its a frigate then its frigate.


Nothing scary. Actually, come to think of it, the P-15A class is somewhat small for a destroyer, while the P-17 class is on the larger side for Frigates.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 30 Apr 2010 06:38

Image Image
Image Image

INS SHIVALIK INTERIOR ~ Courtesy Livefist!
Last edited by Craig Alpert on 30 Apr 2010 07:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Naval Discussion

Postby tejas » 30 Apr 2010 07:00

That is one gorgeous ship inside and out. Looks like you could eat off the floors!


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