LCA news and discussion

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Pratyush
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Pratyush » 20 Mar 2010 14:02

Reading this tread one gets the impression on Tejas Mk1 is to reach FOC 2011 and 40 MK 1s will be built.(engine GE 404). What about the followup orders. As the order will need to be placed by now if the aircraft is to be in service in substantial numbers beyond 2012-13.

Dose any one has any idea regarding the MK2 or will it be just an engine change with corresponding modification to air intakes (If required) ??. or it will be a complete redesign of the airframe along with the avionic package.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby neerajb » 20 Mar 2010 14:32

Rahul M wrote:ground run tests happened in 2001, long after PVNR.


The first Engine Ground Run (EGR) of TD1 took place in April 1998. First taxi trial happened on 17 Feb, 1999.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2010 14:43

One of the first thing you do is to choose an engine and then the combat system (radar) and then design the fuselage around that

a french designer has allegedly said thats the way americans design it - first
get a powerful engine then wrap an airframe around it. the euros he said
first designed a airframe then fitted a engine into it.

it must be said either approach can work - IF YOU HAVE THE ENGINE EXPERTISE AND BASE - which India does not yet :((

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rahul M » 20 Mar 2010 15:02

neerajb wrote:
Rahul M wrote:ground run tests happened in 2001, long after PVNR.


The first Engine Ground Run (EGR) of TD1 took place in April 1998. First taxi trial happened on 17 Feb, 1999.

Cheers....

what happened in PVNR's time was the roll-out. engine ground run and ground run/taxi trials are different. when he wrote ground run I assumed he meant taxi trials since we layman don't hear much about EGR's. :wink:

and yes you are correct, a number of taxi trials took place in the couple of years in the run up to the first flight in jan 2001.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby dhiren k » 20 Mar 2010 17:07

irrelevant.
Last edited by Rahul M on 20 Mar 2010 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT post.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby dhiren k » 20 Mar 2010 17:09

The above article is old but still relevant.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Himalay » 20 Mar 2010 17:58

self deleted.
Last edited by Himalay on 21 Mar 2010 14:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rahul M » 20 Mar 2010 18:05

people, why bother responding to an article that has shredded apart enough times on this thread ? it only adds to the noise. just a point though, it is by Adm Nadkarni, so by definition not DDM, but it's a poor hatchet job all the same. the best proof is that his own service has hit his arguments for a six and fully backs the LCA.

dhirkummnnit wrote:.........

username changed to dhiren k in accordance with forum guidelines.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rahul M » 20 Mar 2010 18:15

the point being that a 10 year old opinion piece that has been discredited often enough, even on this forum, doesn't add anything to the discussion. another pointer being that Adm Nadkarni has been extremely quiet for all these years, ever since the LCA started delivering on its promise.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 20 Mar 2010 18:34

Rahul M wrote:the point being that a 10 year old opinion piece that has been discredited often enough, even on this forum, doesn't add anything to the discussion. another pointer being that Adm Nadkarni has been extremely quiet for all these years, ever since the LCA started delivering on its promise.


And NLCA.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby narayana » 22 Mar 2010 10:32

Rahul M wrote:ground run tests happened in 2001, long after PVNR.


Yep it was a roll out in 1995 Indigenous LCA makes its maiden flight

It had been a painful wait for the maiden flight of the first fly-by-wire technology demonstrator, which rolled out of the HAL hangers in November 1995 in the presence of Prime Minister P V Narasimha Rao.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby neerajb » 22 Mar 2010 14:14

narayana wrote:
It had been a painful wait for the maiden flight of the first fly-by-wire technology demonstrator, which rolled out of the HAL hangers in November 1995 in the presence of Prime Minister P V Narasimha Rao.


This hasty roll out was the reason behind 18 months delay between taxi trials and first flight.

Cheers....

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Ashish J » 23 Mar 2010 14:26

LCA-Tejas has completed 1330 Test Flights successfully. (22-Mar-10).


LCA has completed 1330 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-208,LSP1-58,LSP2-146,PV5-8).

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby nachiket » 23 Mar 2010 14:33

Ashish J wrote:
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-208,LSP1-58,LSP2-146,PV5-8).


Why did they skip the PV-4 designation?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Ashish J » 23 Mar 2010 14:57

nachiket wrote:
Ashish J wrote:
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-130,PV3-208,LSP1-58,LSP2-146,PV5-8).


Why did they skip the PV-4 designation?



Maybe to make a distinction between single seater and a trainer version??..Just a guess..

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby rushiamit » 30 Mar 2010 15:43

Any updates on Tejas. Seems like it is a dead project. No new milestones are achieved or reported. :roll:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Tanaji » 30 Mar 2010 15:54

rushiamit wrote:Any updates on Tejas. Seems like it is a dead project. No new milestones are achieved or reported. :roll:


Sirjee, the next milestone is the IOC for which tests are being carried out as detailed in the earlier posts. What other "milestones" do you want?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Viv S » 30 Mar 2010 16:19

Tanaji wrote:
rushiamit wrote:Any updates on Tejas. Seems like it is a dead project. No new milestones are achieved or reported. :roll:


Sirjee, the next milestone is the IOC for which tests are being carried out as detailed in the earlier posts. What other "milestones" do you want?


First flight of the LSP-3? :)

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby rohitvats » 30 Mar 2010 17:47

rushiamit wrote:Any updates on Tejas. Seems like it is a dead project. No new milestones are achieved or reported. :roll:


...........and counting time for impact of hell-phyyrr.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby neerajb » 30 Mar 2010 17:53

After reading "The Tejas Story", I felt like watching a great suspense thriller movie till intermission only i.e. it covers events from 1993 to 2003. Just curious to know if some gent is already working on the post intermission story?

Cheers....

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 01 Apr 2010 05:30

Just for the record, in case we hear more whining about HAL's rate of production for the LCA, while going through a Defence Standing Committee report on Demand for Grants, I came across a paragraph that basically confirms what I've been saying all this while.
5.5 In response to the clarifications sought by the Committee during oral evidence of the representatives of Ministry of Defence regarding force level and Lines of Production in HAL, the Committee was appraised as under:

...
He further stated that:
"As far as bringing in the LCA into our planning process is concerned, I assure you that this homework has already been done. We are very clear about the rate at which the LCA is going to be inducted into the Air Force. However, the milestones that are there need to be crossed, whether it is with regard to engine or the radar or the weaponisation of the aircraft. They are the teeth of the aircraft. We are watching that very closely. As regards induction, we have even decided with the HAL as to what stage the aircraft will get ramped up from 8 to 14 and from 14 to 20 so that the per year production can increase substantively."

5.7 The Defence Secretary, in this regard, also added as under:

"The Air Force is pretty confident that it will go, because it is shaping up well...The LCA will fit very well into the front line requirement for a Light Combat Aircraft."


the Standing Committee on defence basically re-iterated what I've been saying. that they need to order more otherwise HAL cannot invest more to establish a bigger assembly line.

The Committee desire that the facilities created by HAL should be put for optimum use before any such further investment is made in such projects. For this, the Committee desire that firm order for the manufacture for required number of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) should be given to HAL by the Air Force.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby vina » 01 Apr 2010 09:44

Dark gray Tejas in the air boys.. Just flashed past my window standing on the left wing..Usually flies wings level.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kailash » 01 Apr 2010 10:27

just a thought - instead of issueing RFP/RFQ etc for the mk-2 engines, is it possbile to actually ask the engine manufacturers to also mate their engine in the shortest possible time to LCA?

Each engine manufacturer will be given one airframe - the one whose engine performs better, and integrated the fastest will have an assured follow up order. There can be two different teams from ADA coordinating the activities with each contender. In other words we dont have to wait so long to select an engine. We just pay for one ej200 and f414 upfront along with the effort to integrate it with the airframe.

On a different note, any idea what is taking so long for the engine selection - the ej and f414 have sufficient technical and political differences right?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby nachiket » 01 Apr 2010 11:03

^^ And what of the Mk1 hain ji? We can't spare even one (let alone 2) airframes at this stage if IOC and FOC are to be achieved on time.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kailash » 05 Apr 2010 10:10

ok mk-1 already has one guaranteed customer(IAF). The second (IN) in the pipeline. What about mk-2?

Can someone please tell me what is taking so much time in deciding the engines? Considering the difference between the engines, IMHO, ej200 seems to be the fastest fit on the LCA. Not to mention the ToT, TVC, level of technology itself and political aspects.

If we need to produce more airframes for this, let it be so. But if we leave the integration to the vendors, it would proceed at a much higher pace, not to mention that the risk is borne by them. And we dont have to commit ourselves to one of the two engines immediately.

The single factor that can make or break this program is the speed at which Mk-2 is developed tested and delivered.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby K Mehta » 05 Apr 2010 11:47

Chaiwala News Network reports
LSP 3 is being held back by just one component problem (not radar related), It is on test already on iron bird, LSP-3 may be flight tested the same or the next day after that component is qualified. The component is almost ready, so lets hope for the best.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 05 Apr 2010 12:07

K Mehta wrote:Chaiwala News Network reports
LSP 3 is being held back by just one component problem (not radar related), It is on test already on iron bird, LSP-3 may be flight tested the same or the next day after that component is qualified. The component is almost ready, so lets hope for the best.


Thanks K Mehta. Any idea what the component might be ? Has to be quite important if LSP-3's first flight cannot take place till it is certified. And that also makes it clear that MMR is ready for flight testing on board ?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby K Mehta » 05 Apr 2010 12:24

On MMR he said its ready. I am a novice at avionics and dunno the significance of news, but the way he was telling it, it was a significant component. This component deals with both S/w and H/w. Earlier the problems had been incorrectly attributed to s/w, now they know its hardware and are correcting it. He said the recent version is now on iron bird.
"agar aaj problem solve ho gaya to kal lsp-3 to udaenge"

So rest all problems appear to have been licked, lets wait and watch. fingers crossed!

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Carl_T » 05 Apr 2010 12:32

So does that mean...the Elta EL/M 2052 is not going to be on this production run? My apologies if this has been discussed.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Apr 2010 12:39

EL/M-2052 was never supposed to be on any production run.

kartik, does that sound like a part of the FCS ?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 05 Apr 2010 12:57

Rahul M wrote:EL/M-2052 was never supposed to be on any production run.

kartik, does that sound like a part of the FCS ?


No Rahul, the FCS will get software updates that will allow LSP-3 to fly at whatever limits are now set. Unless they're changing the computer hardware as well, but that had been done earlier itself. this is some flight critical item though, and there are way too many for me to be able to guess..I do recall that some other equipment like TACAN was not installed on either PV-3 or earlier prototypes that didn't permit them from flying above 29,000 feet or so. Maybe the LSP-3 is getting those installed, but that shouldn't have delayed first flight. They could've flown it and later on grounded it to install them as the components were certified.

In short I can't guess what the item may be..maybe K Mehta could go drink another cuppa chai and ask the chaiwallah ? :)

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sbangera » 07 Apr 2010 18:26

India to flight-test first indigenous jet engine next month
Rao said GTRE is now looking to reduce the weight of the Kaveri engine to 50 kg from 60 kg. "It has to be fine-tuned. We will go in for lot of optimisation in future".


Takes the "Light" in LCA a whole new level.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 07 Apr 2010 18:42

sbangera wrote:India to flight-test first indigenous jet engine next month
Rao said GTRE is now looking to reduce the weight of the Kaveri engine to 50 kg from 60 kg. "It has to be fine-tuned. We will go in for lot of optimisation in future".


Takes the "Light" in LCA a whole new level.

^^ I think that's the usual DDM. Kaveri I think weighted 1115kg or somewhere near that, but the goal was to get it to weigh around 950KG. I think the statement should probably state that it will bring it down 50 to 60 kg or around 950 to 960Kg

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Apr 2010 19:05

How this engine is supposted to be tested gurus. On one LCA or some other aircraft. I thought our people done lot of testing in Russia on some Russian aircraft. Is there any clear news on that.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Apr 2010 19:07

data points.

I saw a grey painted tejas with wheels down flying over the ORR a few days back.

today a grey painted tejas (or mirage?) took off very quietly around 5.45pm towards west
and landed 15 mins later. the engine was throttled back and hardly made any noise at all
both ways.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby neerajb » 07 Apr 2010 19:09

Narayana Rao wrote:How this engine is supposted to be tested gurus. On one LCA or some other aircraft. I thought our people done lot of testing in Russia on some Russian aircraft. Is there any clear news on that.


Above link says this:

It would be flight-tested using the IL-76 aircraft in Russia, he said.


Cheers....

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby maitya » 07 Apr 2010 21:32

neerajb and Narayana Rao ... pls refer the Kaveri thread.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kersi D » 07 Apr 2010 21:51

K Mehta wrote:Chaiwala News Network reports
LSP 3 is being held back by just one component problem (not radar related), It is on test already on iron bird, LSP-3 may be flight tested the same or the next day after that component is qualified. The component is almost ready, so lets hope for the best.


Where is this CNN ? I am not getting THIS CNN channel on my TV !!!!

K

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby shukla » 11 Apr 2010 05:31

Mr P S Subramanyam honoured with National Aeronautics Award by the Aeronautical Society of India (AeSI) for work on LCA.

The award was given away by Karnataka Governor H R Bharadwaj. Dr Vijay Mallya, business tycoon, was also present. The award was conferred on him for his contributions towards successful development leading to more production of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), 'Tejas'.


A DRDO official said the scientist Mr Subramanyam aims to achieve weapon integration trials and induction of additional LCA Vehicles into Flight Trial Phase, Initial Operational Clearance(IOC) and Final Operational Clearance (FOC) of Tejas aircraft within the stipulated time frame.

He was also spearheading the design and development of LCA Naval Variant and production of Tejas aircraft for operational service.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby karan_mc » 11 Apr 2010 07:13

K Mehta wrote:Chaiwala News Network reports
LSP 3 is being held back by just one component problem (not radar related), It is on test already on iron bird, LSP-3 may be flight tested the same or the next day after that component is qualified. The component is almost ready, so lets hope for the best.



so it confirms earlier Chaiwala News Network report that still many of the components come from Labs then production house ,this is the reason why it takes ages for HAL to put Birds into Air


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