LCA news and discussion

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Katare
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Katare » 19 Apr 2010 21:24

We should be getting good news on LCA IOC anyday now?

suryag
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby suryag » 19 Apr 2010 22:31

Katare ji, why do you want to cause additional heartburn for jingos like me, whenever there is reports of chaiwala/panwala anticipation increases and the hope then dies a painful death. I am eagerly waiting for some news on tejas but it seems to take forever and to rub salt, nowadays the ada website is not updated very regularly :(

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Neshant » 20 Apr 2010 02:43

December 31, 2018


People keep saying 2018 but in fact Dec 31, 2018 is 2019.

9 more years...

I'm beginning to think that these guys just stretch projects out to span their entire career.

If there ever is a future plane project, it should not be put in the hands of the public sector units. They have proven incapable of meeting any deadline. It should definately be done by the private sector.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Kartik » 20 Apr 2010 03:33

Neshant wrote:People keep saying 2018 but in fact Dec 31, 2018 is 2019.

9 more years...

I'm beginning to think that these guys just stretch projects out to span their entire career.

If there ever is a future plane project, it should not be put in the hands of the public sector units. They have proven incapable of meeting any deadline. It should definately be done by the private sector.


Hmm..So you want the LCA Mk2 to be ready by when? Yesterday? 2014? 2015? Day after tomorrow?

Could you do us a favour? Could you go research on what all changes are going to be made for the LCA Mk2? And then give us some breakdown of what effort is required to make them happen, who makes what part of the associated technologies in India (feel free to include private sector companies too) and maybe benchmark some other fighter programs to give a proper idea of the time-scale that we should aim for...

Oh and also, which private sector company has built fighter jets in the past, or civilian jets or even civilian turboprops or even has set up an MRO at the very least..and how many dedicated chief designers, lead designers, designers, stress analysts, manufacturing engineers, technicians, etc. do these private sector companies employ in the aerospace field ? I’m assuming that if there are private sector companies that can build India’s next fighter then they must have thousands of such engineers at their disposal, all with the requisite experience..otherwise you see, its like getting civil engineers who’ve only worked on bridges, to go build your next space station. You may find that their work and educational experience is not quite in sync with the work you want them to do.

BTW, I wonder why EADS is still working on the Typhoon Tranche 3 capabilities..they have some of the brightest aerospace engineers in Europe, and yet those lazy guys (as I’m sure they are since PSU guys are like that only, na?) are even now, more than 25-30 years since the program began, still working on new capabilities for the Typhoon which still isn’t fully multi-role..But isn’t EADS a private sector company? Wait, if that didn’t work, and PSU’s obviously don’t work, then who works?

Or let’s look at Dassault. Rafale F3, F3+..backed by a national industrial and technological base that is more than a decade advanced than India and even they are still working on capability enhancement for the Rafale. Lazy Frenchmen, na?

Or lets take Lockheed Martin..F-35 delays, cost escalations, engineering issues, you name it they have it..and this is the world’s largest defence contractor we’re talking about with several decades of fighter design and manufacturing experience..and a private sector company to boot.

I’m assuming the private sector companies in India that you want to have design and build our future plane project are better than EADS, Dassault and Lockheed Martin so no issues, cost escalations or delays are seen.

Best of luck in your search for such a company in India to replace HAL/ADA/DRDO. I’m going to eagerly wait for your detailed analysis on this aspect.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Neshant » 20 Apr 2010 04:11

The time for excuses is fast running out. For every project generates a long list of them such that it becomes tiring to even read through. At the end of the day, if there is no deliverable product or it takes forever to deliver it, its all for naught.

The private aerospace sector of the west did not come out of nowhere. It has been developed mainly through government sanctioned projects which adhere to timelines and meet expectations. The circular logic where not having private aerospace infrastructure becomes reason for not transferring R&D work to the private sector is nonsensical. It begs the question of how can you have a private aerospace infrastructure if not a single project comes their way.

All of the foreign aircrafts mentioned have met their deployment specs initially laid out and are/have been deployed. My fear is the LCA will just drag on and on until the day it is cancelled as deadlines come and go.

IMO the govt should start the process of dismantling the aerospace PSU by transferring UAV and UCAV projects to large engineering firms in the private sector. It will at least build up residual capability that if nothing else will be useful when manned combat aircraft become obsolete putting them in a position to take over.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Gaur » 20 Apr 2010 04:46

^^
Neshant,
Please note that there is some confusion regarding the Dec 2018 date. It may not be the target date for mk2 foc. As pointed out in a previous post, it may very well be the date till which the funding of mk2 is approved.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby sunnyv » 20 Apr 2010 07:22

Austin wrote:


Strategypage is not a reliable source but ASRAAM is a good missile


Today's morning news from IDRW.ORG
Source- http://idrw.org/?p=1358

IAF may acquire AIM-132 ASRAAM for Jaguar and Mirage-2000
BY: IDRW NEW NETWORK
Indian Air Force wants to replace Matra R550 Magic-II short-range missile designed in 1968 ,with new generation “heat seeking” British made AIM-132 air-to-air missile
Request for Information was send last year to five missile manufacturers including the Raytheon Corporation from United States, Israeli Rafael and European missile consortium MBDA.
Indian air force has requirements of over 100 short-range missiles ,which will be replacing Matra R550 Magic-II , which are armed by Jaguar and Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft’s in Indian Air force .

US manufacturers had offered AIM-9X for close range combat , while Israeli offered Derby-5 missile , while Britain offered AIM-132 ASRAAM


How much reliable IDRW is ??????, :roll: :roll:
They had some contacts- LCH flying was first broken on IDRW site.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 20 Apr 2010 07:40

My guess is that the 2018 date is for an LCA with KAVERI. NOT EJ-200/GE-414, these should come by 2014. JMT

CM.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby RKumar » 20 Apr 2010 13:44

LCA-Tejas has completed 1341 Test Flights successfully. (12-Apr-10).

LCA has completed 1341 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-134,PV3-210,LSP1-59,LSP2-147,PV5-11).

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby pralay » 20 Apr 2010 15:07

still no LSP3 :cry:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby nachiket » 20 Apr 2010 16:12

Cain Marko wrote:My guess is that the 2018 date is for an LCA with KAVERI. NOT EJ-200/GE-414, these should come by 2014. JMT

CM.


You really think there is going to be a LCA with Kaveri? The IAF would end up having LCA's with three different engines. I don't think they'll ever go for it. Besides, the current Kaveri can't match the performance of the F404. What makes you think it can better the F414/Ej200 in the near future? The only applications of the Kaveri we might see could be on the MCA (if the MCA program ever comes to fruition) since by then I am hopeful that the Kaveri's performance could be improved, and possibly a marine turbine variant in the IN.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Shatack » 20 Apr 2010 16:47



CGP production to be delivered in 2011 will add much cost efficience and power, and still be 2 cooled channels for IR reductions more efficient than Ej200 and F414 1 channel cooled ones! :wink:

NRao
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby NRao » 20 Apr 2010 17:26

nachiket wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:My guess is that the 2018 date is for an LCA with KAVERI. NOT EJ-200/GE-414, these should come by 2014. JMT

CM.


You really think there is going to be a LCA with Kaveri? The IAF would end up having LCA's with three different engines. I don't think they'll ever go for it. Besides, the current Kaveri can't match the performance of the F404. What makes you think it can better the F414/Ej200 in the near future? The only applications of the Kaveri we might see could be on the MCA (if the MCA program ever comes to fruition) since by then I am hopeful that the Kaveri's performance could be improved, and possibly a marine turbine variant in the IN.


No matter what an Indian "solution" HAS to contain - at the very least - an Indian engine and an Indian radar. Without these there cannot be an "Indian" air craft.

So, I think this realization (as reported by news reports - attributed to the just past ACS) will produce these elements. The urgency to produce them should produce results in the near term.

I do not think that there are two ways about this situation. A world class solution has to be found in about 5 years.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby RKumar » 20 Apr 2010 17:48

Second to NRao :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Srivastav » 23 Apr 2010 05:08


karan_mc
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby karan_mc » 23 Apr 2010 06:22

Srivastav wrote:LCA LSP-3 to fly today (?)
http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2010/04/t ... -elta.html


Hope it does i am tried of waiting for it , i am also eager to have new vodka which i had picked up few days ago , vodka party :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby suryag » 23 Apr 2010 07:18

^^^ I have in fact stopped believing that there was something called lsp-03, ADA has to do something for us jingoes

I know i cant be asking this question and calling myself a jingo, but who cares, could any of you point me to some info that clearly states what Elta's contribution is in the MMR ? is it just the rx/tx elements or the DSP algos are yehudi too ?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby karan_mc » 23 Apr 2010 07:51

First flight will occur if the weather condition remains normal in Bangalore today ,while Meteorological Department of India have predicted that Bangalore city will be Sunny with cloudy periods with a chance of showers or thundershowers. but also have said that it will be cloudy if no rains occur.


I hope weather holds and the test flight is possible :((

http://idrw.org/?p=1395#more-1395

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2010 09:15

so far weather is optimum with no rain or dark clouds and no wind either. its now or never. no flight toward the west today morning

I hope it comes up loaded for bear with 8 AAMs on the first flight itself and painted a dark shade of strike eagle grey :mrgreen: lots of fake targets to practise the radar on using the airlines into BIAL.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby krishnan » 23 Apr 2010 10:06

karan_mc wrote:
First flight will occur if the weather condition remains normal in Bangalore today ,while Meteorological Department of India have predicted that Bangalore city will be Sunny with cloudy periods with a chance of showers or thundershowers. but also have said that it will be cloudy if no rains occur.


I hope weather holds and the test flight is possible :((

http://idrw.org/?p=1395#more-1395


Expect rains

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Pratik_S » 23 Apr 2010 10:07


vina
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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby vina » 23 Apr 2010 10:16

Confirmed. ONE Tejas took off and banked over my window 30 secs ago (haah.. nice working from home after all). Now is that the one with the MMR ? :rotfl:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Vivek K » 23 Apr 2010 10:24

Man, we need JCage back on the forum. Paging JC!!!

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Vivek K » 23 Apr 2010 10:25

From Angle-of-Attack's blog

According to a HAL engineer the Indian MMR is also AESA which might be true with so much confusion and a abnormal silence by HAL on this matter.

What?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby pratik » 23 Apr 2010 10:25

Confirmed. ONE Tejas took off and banked over my window 30 secs ago (haah.. nice working from home after all). Now is that the one with the MMR ?


Check your face in the mirror. If you are glowing :D then yes that was the correct LCA... This is the beauty of radiation therapy :lol: .

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Anantz » 23 Apr 2010 10:45

The bird flew at around 10:25; was followed by a chase aircraft, sounded more like a Jaguar, but could also be another LCA, didnt get a good glimpse of the 2nd aircraft. But the first one was definitely the LCA. Lets hope we hear some good news soon. Oh and it hasn't returned yet and it already been more than 30 mins since it took off. :wink:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Gagan » 23 Apr 2010 11:00

Indian MMR is also AESA

:eek:

:twisted:

Wow

Two good news at once - LSP-3 in the air + AESA-MMR on board!

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby arnab » 23 Apr 2010 11:36

Gagan wrote:
Indian MMR is also AESA

:eek:

:twisted:

Wow

Two good news at once - LSP-3 in the air + AESA-MMR on board!


From the blog it appears that the current MMR is the Elta 2032 (which is not an AESA). IAF is hoping to get the Elta 2052 AESA from israel.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2010 11:54

details on the stage where 2052 is at in Israel is itself sketchy. all I see is they have a 707 testbed few yrs ago and claimed tracking-while-scan for 64 targets in a defexpo board. but is it a qualified product now and ready for service and does Israel
have the production facility to manufacture it.

for prototype they could easily have procured the parts from all over like raytheon or northrop grumann etc.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Brahmananda » 23 Apr 2010 12:06

i pray the home made MMR is actually an AESA, that would be excellent. Nice cant wait to see how this phase of testing goes. So we can expect BVR a2a missile firing soon right?

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby pralay » 23 Apr 2010 12:08

vina wrote:Confirmed. ONE Tejas took off and banked over my window 30 secs ago (haah.. nice working from home after all). Now is that the one with the MMR ? :rotfl:

Yaallaa
Looks like vina ji was on the terrace since dawn waiting for the kufr aircraft :D
bhery bhery good newj to start day with :D

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Boudhayan » 23 Apr 2010 12:15

Brahmananda wrote:i pray the home made MMR is actually an AESA, that would be excellent. Nice cant wait to see how this phase of testing goes. So we can expect BVR a2a missile firing soon right?



AESA or not, the BVR missile firing testing should be soon after the first few flights of LSP3.

Though I would surely do a "lungi" dance if its an ASEA radar :D 8)

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Viv S » 23 Apr 2010 12:27

Its my understanding that the radar uses the MMR's antenna but the back-end assembly, signal processor etc have been taken from the 2032. In BR lingo its a SDTA(SDRE+TFTA) radar. I still think we should go for the 2052 AESA while buying a token number of Indian MMRs. The higher cost is less of issue considering the IAF's impending MMRCA aircraft and the eventual PAK FA. The MMRs should instead be fielded on any Jaguars or MiG-27 aircraft that are not being phased out.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby bodhi » 23 Apr 2010 12:47

any news yet! :x :x :x

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Sid » 23 Apr 2010 13:56

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

BREAKING NEWS: TEJAS LSP-3 COMPLETES SUCCESSFUL FIRST FLIGHT WITH ELTA MMR ONBOARD. IT FLEW FOR 40 MINUTES AT 0.8 MACH SPEED.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Boudhayan » 23 Apr 2010 14:02

Sid wrote:http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

BREAKING NEWS: TEJAS LSP-3 COMPLETES SUCCESSFUL FIRST FLIGHT WITH ELTA MMR ONBOARD. IT FLEW FOR 40 MINUTES AT 0.8 MACH SPEED.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



any confirmation on whether it is the AESA one or the normal MMR ??

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby derkonig » 23 Apr 2010 14:03

AoA AoA AoA
AK phyrr......

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Sid » 23 Apr 2010 14:18

Maybe we should have a new Thread "Tejas", since this is a watershed event in history of LCA. This baby has come of age finally, as it can phyrrr with open eyes :)

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Srivastav » 23 Apr 2010 14:22

AoA....what will make my day even better is some more info on the radar.

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Re: LCA news and discussion

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2010 14:40

as reported earlier it will be pulse doppler MMR antenna and 2032 back end. 2032-I should be in range of the APG68v9
seen in F-solah-52.

we could see 2052 on Tejas mk2 as the definitive radar.


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