Indian Army: News & Discussion

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RayC
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 26 Oct 2009 23:21

negi wrote:^ These are select few from thousands that sign up for the SSC ,services definitely encourage officers to pursue MBA or even masters in relevant fields in top institutes (IIMs and IITs) but only a select few are offered courses in top institutes subject to merit and vacancies. Point being majority of the folks who sign up for SSC usually end up being absorbed as permanent commissioned officers subject to their performance appraisals and vacancies , only a select few who find better career opportunities outside and do not necessarily get a high with fauji lifestyle opt to leave for greener pastures.

Imho 10 year tenure for SSC entrants is a welcome step as it gives IA ample time and a seasoned officer who can contribute to the organization and at the same time does not affect the individual's aspirations of pursuing a career in the civilian sector.In this day and age of competition 5yrs of experience and a MBA degree might not guarantee a huge paycheck (if this is indeed the reason for not continuing with the IA) unless of course one is amongst the few bright one's who end up with IIMs .


Going for post retirement academics is entirely the officers choice and most opt for HR and land up in the XRLI. It seems to be a popular choice.

I personally favour a 5 year tenure for a variety of reasons.

1. The officers are still young and can adjust to the new situation.

2. All said and done, the Army regimen does make one a trifle rigid and that cannot work smoothly in a civil setup and more so when you work with labour and the political parties backing them.

3. I am not sure, but a longer tenure till retirement age in civil organisations, would allow the ex officer a better prospect in pension, promotions, PF and gratuity etc!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sam_kamath » 27 Oct 2009 01:14

RayC wrote:
negi wrote:^ These are select few from thousands that sign up for the SSC ,services definitely encourage officers to pursue MBA or even masters in relevant fields in top institutes (IIMs and IITs) but only a select few are offered courses in top institutes subject to merit and vacancies. Point being majority of the folks who sign up for SSC usually end up being absorbed as permanent commissioned officers subject to their performance appraisals and vacancies , only a select few who find better career opportunities outside and do not necessarily get a high with fauji lifestyle opt to leave for greener pastures.

Imho 10 year tenure for SSC entrants is a welcome step as it gives IA ample time and a seasoned officer who can contribute to the organization and at the same time does not affect the individual's aspirations of pursuing a career in the civilian sector.In this day and age of competition 5yrs of experience and a MBA degree might not guarantee a huge paycheck (if this is indeed the reason for not continuing with the IA) unless of course one is amongst the few bright one's who end up with IIMs .


Going for post retirement academics is entirely the officers choice and most opt for HR and land up in the XRLI. It seems to be a popular choice.

I personally favour a 5 year tenure for a variety of reasons.

1. The officers are still young and can adjust to the new situation.

2. All said and done, the Army regimen does make one a trifle rigid and that cannot work smoothly in a civil setup and more so when you work with labour and the political parties backing them.

3. I am not sure, but a longer tenure till retirement age in civil organisations, would allow the ex officer a better prospect in pension, promotions, PF and gratuity etc!


Sir,
I have a simple solution for all this..
Just make it mandatory to serve in the army for at least 5 years before one is eligible for a public service exam and a posting wit IPS, IAS, IFS etc etc...

If some one really wants to do "desh seva" let them start the right way.

:-)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 27 Oct 2009 15:47


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 27 Oct 2009 17:15

sam_kamath wrote:
If some one really wants to do "desh seva" let them start the right way.

:-)


My thoughts, exactly

kancha wrote:Why not make a year's military training followed by another one year attachment with units serving in field areas a compulsory before sending prospective IAS officers to the Lal Bahadur Shastri Academy in Mussoorie? I believe that the army is actually doing so for the officers it inducts in the technical arms before giving them their arm related training.

Not only will it prevent such fiascos and other related problems in future, but also to some extent help overcome the shortage of officers in field areas, besides giving us a babudom that is a lot fitter.

I know that this may be impractical as of now, but worth a thought maybe.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 28 Oct 2009 04:13

Two Generals under scanner in probe into Darjeeling real estate fraud

An inquiry into a controversial land deal in Darjeeling has brought two of the seniormost Generals under the scanner and has put on hold the appointment of one of them as the Deputy Chief of Army Staff (DCAS).

The inquiry was ordered after it came to light that an institution, allegedly posing as an affiliate of the Mayo College in Ajmer, obtained no-objection certificates (NOCs) from the Army for the transfer of a large portion of land near the 33 Corps HQ in Sukna, Darjeeling.

The inquiry has put on hold the appointment of Lt Gen P K Rath, who was commanding 33 Corps when the matter came to light, as the DCAS (Information System and Training). The inquiry will also look into the role of all officers involved in granting the NOCs, including current Military Secretary Lt Gen Avadhesh Prakash who was then commanding the Darjeeling-based 17 Mountain Division.
...
...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby svinayak » 28 Oct 2009 07:24



Looks like the British Indian Army again for imperial wars = even mentioning the old British base
While joint foreign deployments may be some time off, the most complex war game between the two countries has made one thing clear — India and US can now operate together in a hostile environment like Iraq or Afghanistan and deliver the goods.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 28 Oct 2009 11:26

sam_kamath wrote:If some one really wants to do "desh seva" let them start the right way.
:-)

May be a good idea :). It would also bring in a sort of camraderie between officers in Armed forces and the civil service officers. These two groups should work hand-in-hand, rather than the case now. Where ego clashes are way too common. It will also cancel out the "civil service fellows dont know the rigours of military life" claims as well :).

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 28 Oct 2009 11:32

Sachin wrote:
sam_kamath wrote:If some one really wants to do "desh seva" let them start the right way.
:-)

May be a good idea :). It would also bring in a sort of camraderie between officers in Armed forces and the civil service officers. These two groups should work hand-in-hand, rather than the case now. Where ego clashes are way too common. It will also cancel out the "civil service fellows dont know the rigours of military life" claims as well :).


Possible.

But will they have the exacting physical standards?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 28 Oct 2009 11:48

RayC wrote:But will they have the exacting physical standards?

I am not too sure about the IAS chaps, but IPS folks would have to have the same physical standards which are required for a police/para military job. Is that physical standard way too low for what is required in the Army? BTW, I have also not seen IAS people with very high level of handicap as well.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 28 Oct 2009 18:06

I don't think SSBs are as much about physical standards as they are about the requisite officer qualities. Physicals should rather be taken care of by the training institutions.
But since we are on a daydream kinda trip over here, why not make certain physical standards mandatory for the babus too ... :lol: :lol:

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 28 Oct 2009 22:30


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 28 Oct 2009 23:58

I dont know if its such a good idea. The reason is the services are a tradition and precedent bound organizations. Soon enough the recruits will claim seniority for their earlier stint in the armed forces and if granted 9pension /vension reasons) it could lead to slow Praetorization.

I would rather have the folks get selected to the civil services and spend a year or so attached to the armed forces as part of the probationary period.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Oct 2009 00:13

ramana wrote:
I would rather have the folks get selected to the civil services and spend a year or so attached to the armed forces as part of the probationary period.



Some civil types do indeed land up in Defence services staff college at wellington, ooty.

I wonder how much good that really does.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 29 Oct 2009 00:19

make NCC training compulsory for all govt/govt aided schools and a necessary criterion for govt jobs. making military service compulsory for civilian govt jobs doesn't look too practical to me in India.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Oct 2009 00:21




It would also leave them aghast at the sheer scale, quality and quantity of support the amreki jawan receives in terms of logistics, air support, communications and battlefield inputs from electronic and other reconnaissance assets.

The reconnaissance assets may however not be very effective as iraq and afghanistan has proved but still they exist.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Oct 2009 06:35

A still think a couple of divisions in Ladakh would be a good hedge.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 29 Oct 2009 09:19

chetak wrote:
ramana wrote:
I would rather have the folks get selected to the civil services and spend a year or so attached to the armed forces as part of the probationary period.



Some civil types do indeed land up in Defence services staff college at wellington, ooty.

I wonder how much good that really does.


Civilians attending DSSC get to know of procedures of the IA.

Compulsory NCC training is a good idea, but it should be more realistic than what is the case now.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 29 Oct 2009 09:25

Rahul M wrote:make NCC training compulsory for all govt/govt aided schools and a necessary criterion for govt jobs. making military service compulsory for civilian govt jobs doesn't look too practical to me in India.


I don't know how the rich states would respond to such a proposal but, I think there might be support for this idea in and around areas affected by Mao-wannabees.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 29 Oct 2009 10:31

RayC wrote:Compulsory NCC training is a good idea, but it should be more realistic than what is the case now.

The NCC training is certainly not upto the mark these days. The syllabus have to be totally revamped. Right now it is more of a parade and rifle drill training. The quality of NCC units depend upon the CO (deputed from the Army) and the local Associated NCC Officer (ANO, a college teacher). If the combination is good, they have good NCC units but if one of them falters the quality comes down quickly.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 29 Oct 2009 10:32

ramana wrote:I dont know if its such a good idea. The reason is the services are a tradition and precedent bound organizations. Soon enough the recruits will claim seniority

If my understanding of IAS,IPS is correct they too are a very tradition and precedent bound group. Their batches, cadres etc. are too important for them. Have heard about few fightings because of some one from a lower batch reaching a senior rank (bypassing senior batches) etc.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby George J » 29 Oct 2009 10:47

Sachin wrote:...........If my understanding of IAS,IPS is correct they too are a very tradition and precedent bound group. Their batches, cadres etc. are too important for them. Have heard about few fightings because of some one from a lower batch reaching a senior rank (bypassing senior batches) etc.


Not anymore...politically interference can be very demoralizing, donno if the services face this level of uncertainty. There was a time when the mere utterance of CS would shiver the timber of all ye babus...now all gone...its about political connections. Cadre loyalty really is not that prevalent...batch mates maybe...in fact its a good idea to be nice to your batch mates. Your batch mates (same batch different cadres after you leave LBS) will rise up the ranks along with you. And eventually either you will be in Delhi and your batch mate will need center's approval for something for his/her state and it really helps that your old batch mate is now Sec, addl. sec in the dept that you have work with. See even babus need babus. :D

Also reservation does not play havoc in the services....or not as much as it does in bureaucracy.

OT: very recently I found out WHY most babus have an intrinsic hatred for the services. It's comical and if you put yourself in the babus shoes you will agree it's the services fault. But there are exceptions too.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 29 Oct 2009 11:13

George J wrote:.

OT: very recently I found out WHY most babus have an intrinsic hatred for the services. It's comical and if you put yourself in the babus shoes you will agree it's the services fault. But there are exceptions too.


An elaboration on this would be most welcome.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 29 Oct 2009 12:05

The elaboration would be most welcomed!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 29 Oct 2009 12:48

George J wrote:Not anymore...politically interference can be very demoralizing, donno if the services face this level of uncertainty.

Perhaps it is different from state to state. In Kerala I have noticed that politicians too cannot act too smart in front of the "IAS/IPS Association" ;). Yes a bit of one-up-man ship is okay with politicians, but when push comes to shove the civil services top brass gangs up. The present CM had a tussle with then Chief Secretary and the lady resigned. The next incumbent (as per seniority) was facing some corruption charges. The case was filed in the court by the present CM when he was in the opposition. Every thing was tried, but the association ensured that the chap was made the Chief Secretary.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Raju » 29 Oct 2009 12:54

Kerala's bureaucrats are the laziest, slackiest and most underprepared lot in entire India. They are the prime cause behind the state losing out on many an allocated central govt budget because they do not get their act together and on time. Please do not pump up this useless lot.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 29 Oct 2009 19:02

well the mallus are at the very heart of indian beaurcracy ... there is even a proverb within govt of india...

from pillai to pillai ( the newer version of from pillar to post !!) ...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby George J » 29 Oct 2009 20:57

RayC wrote:The elaboration would be most welcomed!


Well the crux of the story (the shortest version) is E_G_O. The story goes that when these IAS babus were young, pure and impressionable and in their training days in LBS Massori, they have to do military attachment which lasts for a month or so. Usually it's with the Army. So these babus to be, who burned the mid-night oil during the IIT, REC, AIIMS, MA, MSc days to clear the UPSC in the top 50 (general category) to get into IAS must now be temporarily subjected to the whims and fancies of some "army wallah". They actually order these babus to get up at 5:30am for parade and do all the stuff. And again...these are babus to be so they are already used to the concept of power and being lorded over by "army wallah" who is only their boss for a few weeks is too much for them. So when they part "Army wallah" think these babus are lazy pussies, the IAS youngling think the "Army wallahs" are parade marching, rum drinking jocks who are lost in their own world.

Now most babus will NOT see another "army wallah" for a very very long time*, unless they go to Delhi MOD or they become collector of a district that houses a Cantonment. And when they do go to Delhi or become collector all the "horrors" inflicted on them comes rushing back. But now the tables have turned...THEY are in the position of authority and they carry emotional baggage and their peer from the army who they interact with...who had NOTHING do with the "ragging" since that poor chap was undergoing the same at his training at around the same time....gets to bear the brunt of the ire.

Senior babu traumatized by all the marching he did wrote:Instead if the "Army Wallahs" used a little foresight and massaged the young babu ego when they were impressionable....wined and dined them...not marched them around...they would have left with a wonderful impression about their service attachment and that goodwill will certainly come handy later in life. If the idea of all that marching was to show a poor soldier life then it must be a two way street.


Or something like that...it was a lot more funny in Malayalam-English with all the gestures.

Sachin:
The Lizzie Jacob incident....yes...that is truly a KL thing...I don't think IAS/IPS associations in any other state are that powerful. But even there....it was the "association" which is a non-judicial entity that did it...not the out-going CS.
__________________________________________________________
* the other time they meet is in a State Raj Bhavan. The Governor's have Aide-De-Camps or ADC who come from the three services + IPS and they have their own secretariat headed by usually by a joint-sec level IAS officer. The IPS guys are usually from the home cadre as IAS babu so they already know how things work. The three service blokes are pretty young/smart/naieve...I believe ADC is like one of the first appointment you get and it's like some sort of badge of honor (they get to put ADC in their title). ADC's job is more ceremonial while the babu has to run the Governor's legislative duty schedule. ADC mistakenly assume that since they are always behind/around the governor that they are in some position of authority and this delusion leads to all kinds of "misunderstandings".

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 29 Oct 2009 21:22

Is it a shortened version of a real incident ?? This is the first time I am hearing about IAS trainees undergoing a month long military attachment. :|

All in all, it looks like the reaction of someone who holds a serious grudge against the armywallahs. Imagine, even as trainees they are

already used to the concept of power :roll:


and expect some serious sucking up to

Instead if the "Army Wallahs" used a little foresight and massaged the young babu ego when they were impressionable....wined and dined them :roll: ...not marched them around :roll: ...they would have left with a wonderful impression about their service attachment and that goodwill will certainly come handy later in life


And of course, the redemption typical babu style :roll:

f the idea of all that marching was to show a poor soldier life then it must be a two way street.


I think this story has some serious authenticity issues, unless of course you can clarify the source. :|
Last edited by kancha on 29 Oct 2009 21:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 29 Oct 2009 21:22

Let us not go off topic. But .... :)
Raju wrote:Please do not pump up this useless lot.

Kerala people deserve what they get in form of ministers, and civil servants. I was not "pumping" up any one, but just a narrated to the incident in which the IAS/IPS triumphed over the elected goons of Kerala.

manjgu wrote:well the mallus are at the very heart of indian beaurcracy ... there is even a proverb within govt of india...

Some news paper had done a survey, it was all about the general feeling that the entire Indian parliament is filled by folks from the "cow belt" and others are getting side-lined. The survey then checked up the various senior posts in the bureaucracy. And this had a sizeable number of Southies, mainly Mallus.

Perhaps the trend might have started with Shri. V.P Menon, who was the right hand man of Sardar Patel.

George J wrote:But even there....it was the "association" which is a non-judicial entity that did it...

Yes of course. But the fact is that when one of their compatriots got kicked, all of them joined up and stood their ground. The only happiness I find in this is that the current ruling government were the folks who introduced militant trade unionism in the state, and this incident was a good pay back to them. With the current level of ministers we have, the state can only run with good IAS/IPS officers who have much more over-all understanding of how things work.

They actually order these babus to get up at 5:30am for parade and do all the stuff. And again...these are babus to be so they are already used to the concept of power and being lorded over by "army wallah" who is only their boss for a few weeks is too much for them.

In this case the problem would be purely with IAS folks and not for chaps from the IPS. They have to go through the basic PT,parade etc. during their training and even for a majority part of their career ahead. And yes I can understand the 'babu' mentality of an IAS chap. In the civil service world IAS-wallah has the maximum clout on the ground. The IPS-wallah is always the 2nd in the ladder. Even in case of a District, the Dist.Collector is the final authority, Supdt. of Police is at a lower level.

But it seems when the British were in charge even though there was a distinct hierarchy and pecking order defined, the District Collector, the Supdt. of Police and the Judicial Magistrate there were all in good talking terms and ran the show as a joint effort, rather than each one becoming an egoist.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby George J » 29 Oct 2009 21:41

Kancha:
Keeping with the fine traditions of BR, please contact your neighbourhood IAS officer and ask them if they had a military attachment and if so how long. I was only a fly in the wall in this conversation.

Sachin:
The Tambram/Mallu generation of IAS almost over, they are the MOST visible because they are the senior most officers today. You see in the 70's there was no such thing as IT-Vity....the best one could aspire to was UPSC. The next gen will be from UP/Bihar and Orissa according to a more informed BR jingo. How do I know this....coz all good mallus scan the IAS/IPS list for suitable boys. :D

With the current level of ministers we have, the state can only run with good IAS/IPS officers who have much more over-all understanding of how things work.


This applies to EVERY state. There are very few ministers who are competent or care enough to understand the minutiae of running a government. A politician is considered powerful if he gets votes, but that does not make him/her a good administrator. A shrewd politician is one who get the good babus...to do the work right with ALL the political backing and then takes all the credit (Lalu ji). From what I am told in the current UPA set up with a DISTINCT bifurcation of the political center and administrative center is really working well. The PMO does not deal that much with politics, someone else does so they are busy running the country (sure most DONT jingos think so) not playing politics, appeasing coalition ammas/appas/ammamas. It's not devoid of political interference...that's never going to be possible...but for once the bifurcation is very useful for actual governance.

Finally, what the "Army Wallahs" don't get the "IAS and IPS wallah" gets from day one. If you get posted as Zilla Parishad CEO then the Zilla Parishad President is also starting their political career along with your administrative career. Or the local MLA...or MP. So when you finally leave the district and go back to the state capital or Delhi...you WILL meet these same people in the coming decades. They are very mindful of this. And even the young & pure novice politicians remember this. If district collector was nice to them/polite to them...offered them tea while they were sitting on dharna outside the collectorate...all that comes back. There is a certain kinship. And being a double edged sword....the animosity also gets carried over. That necessary lathi charge can prove very costly in about 3 decades.....we are humans after all.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Oct 2009 21:46

A senior babu I know has the fondest memories of his attachment to a unit in J&K during his LBS days. So like all generalizations this is general.

A CS level person told me the antagonism harks back to Lord Kitchner and Lord Curzon spat about primacy of the branches: civil- military. Having said that a lot of water has flown down the Jamuna and things are better due to the interaction at Collector level, Staff College and NDC. Yes there are petty viewpoints but hopefully they are in a minority and dont effect major national security issues.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Tanaji » 29 Oct 2009 21:51

Finally, what the "Army Wallahs" don't get the "IAS and IPS wallah" gets from day one. If you get posted as Zilla Parishad CEO then the Zilla Parishad President is also starting their political career along with your administrative career. Or the local MLA...or MP. So when you finally leave the district and go back to the state capital or Delhi...you WILL meet these same people in the coming decades. They are very mindful of this. And even the young & pure novice politicians remember this. If district collector was nice to them/polite to them...offered them tea while they were sitting on dharna outside the collectorate...all that comes back. There is a certain kinship. And being a double edged sword....the animosity also gets carried over. That necessary lathi charge can prove very costly in about 3 decades.....we are humans after all.


And so begins the unholy politician-babu-police nexus.

OT...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby AnimeshP » 29 Oct 2009 22:14

On the topic of Civil Admin - Army relations ... I know of instances wherein they have come together to thwart our politicians from laying hands on prime property in Army cantonment's .. There have been other issues as well where there has been tremendous co-operation between the two .. Of course, there are issues where they differ significantly as well ...
So I guess it is not fair to generalize one way or the other ...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 29 Oct 2009 22:26

Kancha

not sur eif it is one month but there was an article on the web (first hand accounts ) from some young IAS guys about their visit to the Chinese border.

google it and you may get lucky.

When they are young they are all good - and that goes for young Lts and young civil service types.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby George J » 29 Oct 2009 22:41

In this instance....ALL the IAS babus hated their experience, I guess this was the only time they ALL agreed on something. For you to have a pleasent experience either you have the right mindset from the start...or you were actually treated well. In my vignette...I guess both did not happen.

Tanaji:
It's not as devious as you might think it is. If you are a professional working for major IT-Vity company on some major project in some remote area you will remember who you worked with even after 10-30 years. And in this case.....all three parties are in the same "company" ALL the lives. You are looking at it very coldly...if you are ZP CEO or Asst. Collector...your kids were probably born in the district hospital...same OB/Gyn.....your kids play with Dy. SP's kids...or other politician's kids...the forestry service officer's kids...the medical sup's kids...who all attend probably the only half decent English medium school around. That is not nexus. Its a community. And a district is a small community, everyone knows everyone and likes to know what is going on. Including what they cooked in the collector's house.

Nexus would be when individual with nothing in common would get together for personal gain. In the above vignette there is a lot in common. All their kids get chicken pox at the same time. :)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 30 Oct 2009 07:59

I did try the LBS site for the training curriculum but didn't have any luck over there. I'll take your word for it.
But I still have a doubt, is it an attachment or just an orientation visit? As I see it, attachment to regular battalions is what some logistics officers do before sidestepping to their primary corps. The IAS trainees would, or rather should, be on more of an orientation visit to the various agencies all across the country to understand their functioning. And yes, the fauj does need to make a decent impression because in any case, they are not there to stay with them for long (still not sure on the duration though)

PS: on a second read, my previous post seemed to be a bit too loaded with sarcasm, but it was primarily due to the portions quoted from GeorgeJ's post.

kancha
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kancha » 30 Oct 2009 08:07

Surya wrote:Kancha

When they are young they are all good - and that goes for young Lts and young civil service types.


Touche !

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Patrick Cusack » 30 Oct 2009 09:01

PICTURES: Pilots escape as Ecuadorian Dhruv helicopter crashes
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ashes.html

How safe are these or should we assume sabotage?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Shameek » 30 Oct 2009 09:05

Patrick Cusack wrote:How safe are these or should we assume sabotage?


Sabotage??

This is being discussed in the Flight Safety thread. Please continue there.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby George J » 30 Oct 2009 10:06

http://pib.myiris.com/features/article.php3?fl=02060608832 wrote:The IAS Professional Course, Phase-I lasts 24 weeks. After completing the Foundation Course, the IAS Officer Trainees undergo the Professional Course Phase-I. This course aims at developing and hone their professional skills in handling a large range of responsibilities that an officer shoulders within the first ten years of service. The course seeks to strengthen the understanding of the environment in which an IAS officer has to function. It helps develop values, ideals and attributes desirable in an IAS officer. Emphasis is laid on understanding of public systems and their management, together with a grounding in public administration, law, economics and computer-applications. During Phase-I, the IAS Probationers are sent on a winter study tour-cum-Bharat Darshan comprising of a number of attachments such as with the three Armed Forces, public and private sector units, municipal bodies, voluntary agencies, non-government organisations and attachments in disturbed areas. The Winter Study Tours end with an attachment to the Bureau of Parliamentary Studies and Training (BPST) where officer trainees get an opportunity to meet parliamentarians and various other dignitaries in the capital.


It does not specify length of attachment...even the person I was listening to did not refer to length...I am pretty sure it was long enough for them to come up with a solution (don't ask me what it was) so that the young and impressionable babus and lady babus had to figure out how to put a stop to the 5:30am parades and eventually they did. Again this was a private conversation...so things should be left unstated at some point. The outcome was they were finally given a concession that they can get up at 7:30am and not attend parade.....again it has something to do with when breakfast and chai was served. Babus do not function without chai. :)

Oh and there is another fact that IA might lacks or the IN person I spoke to had better exposure.

Just like you can be a good politician but a lousy administrator, you can be a fine soldier/sailor/airman but a lousy administrator/manager. And when you goto Dilli-MOD/or whatever Sena Bhavan/or other places that require your services you are now in an integrated team. This might be second nature in the private sector but apparently due to reasons unknown in some instances they put the wrong person in the mix. And when you talk to your peers from FinMin, MOD etc you REPRESENT one of the services.

They do not care/may not be aware how many al-keeda you killed with your bare hands, you are there to talk to them about xxx project and you might know how important that is in al-keeda killing but you are still dealing with babus from FinMin and MOD who have a zillion projects and your xxx happens to one of them. It is unfair to expect FinMin or MOD babu to assume your xxx Project which will help kill al-keeda is more important (hypersimplification) than next guy they meet who is a IN guy who has yyy Project which might deal with next gen ECM. You piss (again hypersimplication) off the babu by telling him how you killed al-keeda with bare hands the IN guys bares the brunt of it.

And we are talking about jingo type projects, you need FinMin and MOD for bread & butter stuff like infrastructure etc. People management is very important.


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