Indian Army: News & Discussion

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 20 Jan 2010 09:40

Man!!!!! This is something. With all due respect to the Institution and the Service, let me say that This poor Gen Saar, is taking a lot of flak recently and has started to look very shaky, bumbly and now hard of Hearing......

Now that the members have throughly discussed the article by Shake Her - Gupt AA... let me add that Mr. Antony is nothing if not controversy hating ( a look at his track record in national and state politics can substantiate this), whether Gen Saar likes it or not, enough and more mud has been slung all around to ensure that Antony Saar is almost embarrassed, and this very well seals any - off the record recos Gen Saar might have thought of making regarding his successor or any plans for his other proteges. And now this news comes on top of everything. I dont know why even this had to come to open press. May be some one was trying to make absolutely sure that Gen Saar gets his extra 20% pension payout.

@ ASP:- AP, Rath, Sen All fall down, irrespective of the CoI and findings and action there of. (& I'm ready to stick my neck out on this, the best Gen Saar & AP can hope for is that AP is allowed to go into quiet retirement, but will he be allowed to so after DK retires and if the successor has an vendetta to run is another matter altogether) and Who rises?? None but VKS.

Is there something more than that meets the eye??

Lets sit back and watch the great game unfold.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 20 Jan 2010 10:37

Its not just gunners who have the problem. Some infantry folks also have it.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 21 Jan 2010 19:20

India Offers Upgrade Bangladeshi MiG-29 Jet and Mi-17 helicopters

The Indian Air Force is offering the Bangladesh Biman Bahini (Bangladesh air force) the use of its facilities to modernise and maintain fighter aircraft and helicopters, a senior defence source told. In reaching out to Dhaka with an offer to help upgrade its air fleet, New Delhi is stepping into an area in which Bangladesh has been dependent mainly on China and, to a limited extent, on Pakistan, Russia and the US.

Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik, currently in Dhaka on a week’s visit that began on Saturday, offered the use of Indian Air Force facilities in meetings with the chief of the Bangladesh Biman Bahini, Air Marshal S.M. Ziaur Rehman. The IAF is understood to have offered to liaise with defence public sector company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Bangalore, to help modernise Bangladesh’s MiG-29 aircraft and Mi-17 helicopters. The IAF flies and has upgraded the two aircraft for its own fleet. HAL is engaged in upgrading India’s own MiG-29s.

This is the first visit by an Indian Air Force chief to Bangladesh in more than five years. The last such visit was in 2004. But the Bangla air chief was here in April 2009. Military-to-military relations with Bangladesh have been resuscitated since the visit by the Bangladesh army chief in February 2008. An IAF source pointed out that while Bangladesh had mostly Chinese and some American-origin aircraft, it also had a squadron of MiG-29aircraft.

Nearly 70 per cent of Bangladesh’s flying fleet is aged, with the fighter aircraft being 20 years old or even more than that. Bangladesh has taken help from China and Pakistan for its A-5 and A-7 Chinese-origin aircraft.But the Indian Air Force has said that the facilities for its Mi-17 helicopters (the IAF flies the transport helicopter in large numbers), the MiG-29 and the Antonov 32 could be spared for Bangladesh’s limited air force. Bangladesh flies three AN 32s and 14 Mi-17s.

In Dhaka, Air Chief Marshal Naik has met President Zillur Rahman and was scheduled to meet Sheikh Hasina on Wednesday. He has also met the three chiefs of the armed forces. “The main focus of the visit will be on improving bilateral relations, promoting defence ties, outlining further areas of defence co-operation between the two countries and resolving pending issues through dialogue and understanding,” the air force source said.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 21 Jan 2010 20:55

^^Gr8 news!

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 21 Jan 2010 22:02

anirban_aim wrote:Man!!!!! This is something. With all due respect to the Institution and the Service, let me say that This poor Gen Saar, is taking a lot of flak recently and has started to look very shaky, bumbly and now hard of Hearing......

Now that the members have throughly discussed the article by Shake Her - Gupt AA... let me add that Mr. Antony is nothing if not controversy hating ( a look at his track record in national and state politics can substantiate this), whether Gen Saar likes it or not, enough and more mud has been slung all around to ensure that Antony Saar is almost embarrassed, and this very well seals any - off the record recos Gen Saar might have thought of making regarding his successor or any plans for his other proteges. And now this news comes on top of everything. I dont know why even this had to come to open press. May be some one was trying to make absolutely sure that Gen Saar gets his extra 20% pension payout.

@ ASP:- AP, Rath, Sen All fall down, irrespective of the CoI and findings and action there of. (& I'm ready to stick my neck out on this, the best Gen Saar & AP can hope for is that AP is allowed to go into quiet retirement, but will he be allowed to so after DK retires and if the successor has an vendetta to run is another matter altogether) and Who rises?? None but VKS.

Is there something more than that meets the eye??

Lets sit back and watch the great game unfold.

Im willing to go out on a limb and say that Antonys allergy seems not only to be to controversy, but the symptoms seem also to manifest themselves as an inability to correctly discharge the functions of his office. Instead of weak-kneedly lecturing the world at large, he should be taking action, and ensuring that the armed forces never reach the stage where such a time should come to pass that they have to resort to the media to clear their frustrations.

Without prejudice, and with the disclaimer that I dont know either of them, or any inside knowledge of events as they stand:

1. The current chief came across as weak when the Pay Commission Anomaly uproar happened. Look to the Navy Chief, who was a real tiger on the issue, and fought hard for his men.

2. Would any man be willing to wreck the careers of so many largely blameless men? For what reason?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 22 Jan 2010 02:45

Indian Army is Procuring Additional Accessories for TAR-21 assault rifles

The list of accessories for the modular Israeli Tavor TAR-21 rifle, which is now the standard personal weapon for special forces personnel and paratroopers includes telescopic sights and night vision sights, accessory rails for mounting additional gadgets, high-intensity flashlights, dual magazine clips and luminous sights for under-barrel grenade launchers.

Also being sought for the TAR-21 are single eye night vision goggles with headband. Providing high-resolution imagery and image intensification troops would be able to use them in conjugation with the rifle’s day sights or as an independent gadget by being worn on the forehead.Specifications for the all-terrain vehicles (ATV) include seating capacity for 10 persons and the ability to operate across a wide spectrum terrain and climatic conditions, including snowbound areas, deserts and marshes.Inbuilt GPS and navigation system, air-conditioning, fire-fighting aids, internal and external storage capacity for military equipment, cold starting system and provisions for attaching engineering support equipment like snow cutter, blades and trailers would be added features of the ATV.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Jan 2010 06:40

Watching Army chief's action in land scam: Antony

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 22 Jan 2010 10:56

xpost:
Should the Army Fight Red Terror? ---- Maj Gen Dhruv C Katoch (Retd)
http://www.claws.in/index.php?action=ma ... 79&u_id=82
The Road to Reforms ---- Dr. N Manoharan
http://www.claws.in/index.php?action=ma ... 77&u_id=42

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Jan 2010 11:18

Antony is an idiot. He should have asked the Secretary in the Ministry of Defence to put out a press statement LONG ago, saying that the land is not army land, and that what was issued was merely an NoC, for a group which owned the land to construct on it.

No controversy, no problem. Antony seems to be good only at doing nothing.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Jan 2010 11:36

If it is not army land, which it is not, then why the controversy?

Chickens Neck?

Binnaguri is surrounded by tea gardens and so are many such Army units in North Bengal.

Hashimara airbase is surrounded by tea gardens and so was my unit there.

I am curious to know what is the real problem.

There is more than what meet the eye!

As an retired person, I am all guns going to ensure we are not sullied!

Any smart guys to educate?

Amit J · Post by **Amit J** » 22 Jan 2010 12:58

New Army Chief Named

Lt Gen VK Singh named next Army chief

Lt General V K Singh, the Eastern Army Commander and senior-most infantry officer, was on Friday named as the next Army chief and will take over his new post after incumbent Gen Deepak Kapoor retires on March 31.

The Defence Ministry issued the order after the Cabinet Committee on Appointments cleared Singh's name for the top post, senior ministry sources said in New Delhi

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/ ... -chief.htm

Lt Gen V K Singh COC Eastern Army Command succeds Gen Deepak Kapoor as the new Indian Army Chief

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Jan 2010 13:01

Ray C & ASP,

When this broke out, me in all my dreamy eyed idealistic naivety had assumed that after being implicated in comparatatively minor scandals like Meat, Rum and Eggs may be some bad apples in the brass had decided to take an upwardly (or should it be downwardly) jump into BBDs (Bigger, Better Deals).

But having spent some time going through almost every published news report, and going through the past histories of all the stake holders involved (Of Course from whatever was available in open source), one thing was clear to me. This is nothing but another badly managed PR disaster.

Like you say this is not an army land. But this issue has been played up in the media on two lines. "A Land Scam" and "The biggest scam in IA's history" though no one and I assert NO ONE has provided any substantial proof of monetary favors being provided to the accused. Only assumptions have been made and motivces attributed.

About IA's Image being sullied, its a little late in the day, damage has already been done. Public Memory is short and I dont think many bother to follow up and find out the results of CoIs etc; IMHO, the way the defence forces have been projected in the public's mind, is that they are above such things. In this situation just an allegation even without conclusive proof will do enough to sully the reputation. The fact repeatedly asserted in this forum, that Defence Forces are the only organisations which have taken most swift action in such cases needs to be brought out more effectively in popular media.

This is a case where motives have been arbitrarily assigned. Actions assumed and verdict delivered.(By the media). I have no doubt in my mind that this has been orchestrated by people with vested intrests, within the army by indulging in selective leaks and character assasination.

The fact that the Chief has been unable to stamp this out with a firm hand, shows his lack of complete control (at least to some degree) over his subordinates. Further his inability to take into confidence the defence minister aggravates the fault.

Well we have to say one thing on his behalf, may be he was hard of hearing all this while

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Jan 2010 13:04

Lt Gen V K Singh COC Eastern Army Command succeds Gen Deepak Kapoor as the new Indian Army Chief

@ ASP:- AP, Rath, Sen All fall down, irrespective of the CoI and findings and action there of. (& I'm ready to stick my neck out on this, the best Gen Saar & AP can hope for is that AP is allowed to go into quiet retirement, but will he be allowed to so after DK retires and if the successor has an vendetta to run is another matter altogether) and Who rises?? None but VKS.

Is there something more than that meets the eye??

Lets sit back and watch the great game unfold.

I would say "Mission Sukna" accomplished.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Jan 2010 13:07

I'm taking bets:

I say the next guy to be found guilty of some thing would be Lt Gen. PC Bharadwaj.

or atleast a sincere and honest attempt will be made.

Anmy Body In???

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 22 Jan 2010 13:41

^^^ You mean for the Arjun Tank scam

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 22 Jan 2010 17:58

Guys any news about LCH....the month is about to end...!

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jan 2010 21:34

sumshyam wrote:Guys any news about LCH....the month is about to end...!

Yet another case of a PSU/DRDO shooting its mouth off ( w.r.t deadlines) and not achieving it while not even clarifying as to reason for the delay

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jan 2010 21:54

HT reporting that Chinese hacked into 33 Corps, Sukna computers and got info on bunkers along the Indo-China border.

Some of the unused bunker on the border were very accurately targeted and destroyed by the Chinese in recent past. The IA apparently couldn't understand as to how this was happening ( info about the exact bunker locations leaking to Chinese) and a enquiry led to discovery of hacking of HQ computers.

Given that HT broke the story of the PMO hacking a week before it was acknowledged, wouldn't bet on this story being wrong.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 22 Jan 2010 22:04

anirban_aim wrote:
Lt Gen V K Singh COC Eastern Army Command succeds Gen Deepak Kapoor as the new Indian Army Chief

@ ASP:- AP, Rath, Sen All fall down, irrespective of the CoI and findings and action there of. (& I'm ready to stick my neck out on this, the best Gen Saar & AP can hope for is that AP is allowed to go into quiet retirement, but will he be allowed to so after DK retires and if the successor has an vendetta to run is another matter altogether) and Who rises?? None but VKS.

Is there something more than that meets the eye??

Lets sit back and watch the great game unfold.
I would say "Mission Sukna" accomplished.

The Army badly needs leadership.

The MoD badly needs a minister.

Will we see these emerge in the coming years?

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 23 Jan 2010 13:59

India's snow warriors

http://www.upiasia.com/Security/2010/01 ... iors/4083/

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 23 Jan 2010 14:54

The Army badly needs leadership.

The MoD badly needs a minister.

Will we see these emerge in the coming years?

well, if only looks could reveal anything, the incoming chief appears to be a tough guy. Maybe RayC can comment.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Jan 2010 15:00

sanjaychoudhry wrote:India's snow warriors

http://www.upiasia.com/Security/2010/01 ... iors/4083/

The article seems to be a patch work of various unrelated factoids thrown together in an incoherent manner.....not to mention some of the stuff is really nonsense....snow warriors, allright...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jan 2010 15:13

sud sahab shouldn't write on mil affairs. he makes far too many mistakes.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Jan 2010 16:13

Rahul M wrote:sud sahab shouldn't write on mil affairs. he makes far too many mistakes.

True words...Raul da......I guess we had a run-in many moons ago on when he had written a similar article...........

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Jan 2010 16:17

aditp wrote:
The Army badly needs leadership.

The MoD badly needs a minister.

Will we see these emerge in the coming years?
well, if only looks could reveal anything, the incoming chief appears to be a tough guy. Maybe RayC can comment.

I don't know the Chief designate professionally. I have met him socially quite a few time.

He is, as I have experienced, is a very matured person and I am sure he will be able to deliver. A man of few words and total grace is what I would say!

I would also like to state that it is not the Army that takes the call, it is the politicians and the Army must obey what they and their policies dictate.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Jan 2010 16:44

I think it would be unfair to not allow Hari Sud some journalistic licence. If Campbel can sex up the Int report on Saddam Hussein and his 40min WMD capability, why deny our good old Hari his fun?

The Kumaon Regiment was not specially equipped and trained snow warriors. It was a KUMAON battalion under Lt Col Sarwate and that means just a battalion and not the Regiment. They were the pioneers and then there were many volunteers who were called in and they had to be unmarried and ready for a risk that could call for the ultimate sacrifice. Many volunteered including married folks. I was there too. What the KUMAON Bn achieved and what the volunteers consolidated is something that should be written down in golden letters of Indian history. I am not aware of any such literary or military historical record. The then Army Commander’s foresight was most commendable. He was a person with a great insight of history. He has even published a copious pamphlet on the history, culture, habits, customs etc that was a must read for all of us.

There is nothing like ‘snow trained troops’. Every unit goes through its paces in all types of terrain without fail and so we are all trained for all types of terrain and environment. This is all journalistic hoohah! And so any unit would be as good as the next in Sumdorong Chu. It amazes me how such journalistic claptrap can state “This eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation lasted a few years and then diplomacy took over. If India did not have snow-trained troops at the ready, the Chinese would have been at Tawang once again”.

What utter nonsense!

India does not have troops specialised in Jungle Warfare and CI. We are all trained for every situation since we keep rotating in our tenures. Sud talks nonsense when he states “Their temporary success was quickly turned into defeat by India’s high-altitude and snow-warfare trained troops.” 8 Mtn Div was in CI and hardly a “India’s high-altitude and snow-warfare trained troops”. The man is a journalistic weirdo!

I could go on, but I a bored with this journalistic flourish!

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 23 Jan 2010 17:17

The article written by Sud Sahib is a well written psy ops article filling it its purpose admirably.

Time to get a grip, climb out of the well and move on.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 23 Jan 2010 23:13

Army to showcase Arjun tanks at Republic day parade
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/cities/De ... e93879.ece

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 23 Jan 2010 23:51

RayC wrote:I think it would be unfair to not allow Hari Sud some journalistic licence. If Campbel can sex up the Int report on Saddam Hussein and his 40min WMD capability, why deny our good old Hari his fun?

I guess the article was written for the non-military masses - not nitpickers ...sorry subject specialists like brfites.

I agree a bit of peer review wouldnt have hurt.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Jan 2010 10:49

Jagan wrote:
RayC wrote:I think it would be unfair to not allow Hari Sud some journalistic licence. If Campbel can sex up the Int report on Saddam Hussein and his 40min WMD capability, why deny our good old Hari his fun?
I guess the article was written for the non-military masses - not nitpickers ...sorry subject specialists like brfites.

I agree a bit of peer review wouldnt have hurt.

If I go by Letters to the Editor, I daresay the non military masses are like their compatriots of yesteryears.

It is good to see the common man aware of national defence, even if not perfect, that will not let things go by.

I wish our MPs took interest in Defence so that thing can improve!

Articles like that of Sud appears impressive but are totally extra free with the reality! Misleading the people is very incorrect just for journalistic voyeurism!

Hari Sud · Post by **Hari Sud** » 24 Jan 2010 20:47

Hello! This is Hari Sud reading your unpleasant remarks.

I did not give permission to any of you fools to post my paper on this website. This point was made clear to Rahul M and Ramana along time back.

RaYC is an out of control person who wish to research nothing but indulge in unpleasant remarks. I wish he writes something and give me an opportunity to tear it apart.

For this paper you are not the audiance. The readers are elsewhere and they read papers like this very carefully. They translate these into many languages. Already a general of the army who has retired had asked to reprint this paper in his magazine. I hold the copy rights.

Do you think I did not know the difference between Kumaon Regiment or two battlions of the Kumaon regiment who scaled the Siachen ahead of Pakistani onslaught. It still is Kumaon regiment under any circumstances.

How many of you have seen the business end of a gun. Do you know what differntiates a gun, from a rifle or cannon.

Everything is a fact in this paper written in a bit plain english for other readers to translate and read. this is how psy. warfare is fought gently.

I suggest you cease and desist. Also take link to this paper off.

Suggestions to improve are always welcomed. Unsavoury comments are unwelcomed.

I do not wish to thank any of you.

Hari Sud
Toronto, Canada.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 24 Jan 2010 21:11

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 24 Jan 2010 21:45

Was this posted before? if not......

Eco-bus adventurer freed in India
Pag, 35, who left London in his biofuel bus in September, was arrested in the town of Pushkar on Wednesday after Indian army radar detected the signals from his satellite telephone.

http://www.biofueldaily.com/reports/Eco ... a_999.html

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 24 Jan 2010 22:35

Hari Sud wrote:Hello! This is Hari Sud reading your unpleasant remarks.

I did not give permission to any of you fools to post my paper on this website. This point was made clear to Rahul M and Ramana along time back.

RaYC is an out of control person who wish to research nothing but indulge in unpleasant remarks. I wish he writes something and give me an opportunity to tear it apart.

For this paper you are not the audiance. The readers are elsewhere and they read papers like this very carefully. They translate these into many languages. Already a general of the army who has retired had asked to reprint this paper in his magazine. I hold the copy rights.

Do you think I did not know the difference between Kumaon Regiment or two battlions of the Kumaon regiment who scaled the Siachen ahead of Pakistani onslaught. It still is Kumaon regiment under any circumstances.

How many of you have seen the business end of a gun. Do you know what differntiates a gun, from a rifle or cannon.

Everything is a fact in this paper written in a bit plain english for other readers to translate and read. this is how psy. warfare is fought gently.

I suggest you cease and desist. Also take link to this paper off.

Suggestions to improve are always welcomed. Unsavoury comments are unwelcomed.

I do not wish to thank any of you.

Hari Sud
Toronto, Canada.

"Vidya Dadati Vinayam" : With Knowledge comes politeness.EDIT.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Jan 2010 22:45

Hari Sud,

So far as I can see, only a link to your article has been provided. That, in itself, as far as I know is not a copyright violation.

Meanwhile, the comments about your article have been both critical and supportive.

Please try and be decent towards your readers.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 24 Jan 2010 22:54

BIG Sigh....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jan 2010 22:55

hari sud sahab, AFAIK none of your articles have been posted in full. even excerpts haven't been posted. only links have been posted and it is my understanding that this is expressly allowed under fair use regulations. which means that your permission is not required and neither do you have the right or authority to dictate what is discussed here, as long as no other guideline is being violated (and no other guideline has been violated to my knowledge).
please correct me if I'm wrong.

secondly, I fully understand your anger at the (justified, IMHO) criticism your articles have faced here but if you want to defend your articles on BR you have to follow the posting rules just like everybody else. as of now you have received 1 official warning for the less than civilized comments in your last post. more warnings could result in your posting rights being revoked.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 24 Jan 2010 22:56

How many of you have seen the business end of a gun. Do you know what differntiates a gun, from a rifle or cannon.

Browse through BR forums for an answer to your questions. Maybe, you are confusing us for a large number of journalists (Refer to Tracking errors thread). There are many here who have "seen the business end of a gun", thanks for your concern. And yes, I know what differentiates a gun from a rifle and a cannon as does almost everyone here on BR, unlike you, I suppose?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Jan 2010 23:14

hmm...he got banned and then it got commuted to a warning.

Hari Sud wrote: I did not give permission to any of you fools to post my paper on this website. This point was made clear to Rahul M and Ramana along time back.

Posting a link is not the same as posting the text. Gerard ensures quite strictly that all copyrights are honoured. If you post it on a public website which can be accessed for free, it can be linked to by anybody - you don't get to decide who links to it. And interestingly the criticism has been quite constructive hence, unless you are someone who is afraid of being questioned I don't see the reason for your going postal.

Hari Sud wrote: How many of you have seen the business end of a gun.

Have you? Quite a few of us have. People like RayC have seen it when it was being held by the enemy.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 24 Jan 2010 23:15

Hari Sud wrote: Do you think I did not know the difference between Kumaon Regiment or two battlions of the Kumaon regiment who scaled the Siachen ahead of Pakistani onslaught. It still is Kumaon regiment under any circumstances. .

Not in India. The correct terminology is always "4th Battalion, The Kumaon Regiment" and NEVER the 4th Kumaon Regiment. "4 Kumaon" is fine.. 4th Bn, Kumaon is acceptable. As i said before, BRFites are nitpickers.. you would be wasting your time trying to convince us otherwise.