Indian Army: News & Discussion

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 15 Jan 2011 19:36

Surya wrote:The Army Chief continues to impress

terming 2011 year as year of the disabled soldier was a long time coming

may the winds of change continue to blow

What benefits will this provide to the disabled soldiers?
Thanks.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 Jan 2011 19:49

Singha wrote:about the two new mountain divs, will these form the nucleus of new mountain strike corps or that is a entirely new group of divisions yet to be raised and equipped ? (presumably with the 300 light tanks and other stuff IA is looking for)

Two already raised in NE are part of existing corps....both III and IV Corps now have 3 MD each. Plus, there has been a rationalization of AOR of two Corps. Two additional MD planned will be part of MSC.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 Jan 2011 20:58

abhishek_sharma wrote:Artillery guns by year-end

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/scamh ... g/737640/2

NEW DELHI: After a gap of over two decades, the Army will finally get over the Bofors ghost with the Army Chief assuring that new artillery guns would be added to its inventory by the end of this year. The Army Chief on Friday said “one particular variety” of artillery guns would be inducted in “certain numbers” this year as part of the modernisation plan. These would be the first new inductions into the artillery arm after the Bofors guns were procured in the 1980’s.

Didn't another news item specifically name those light Howitzers? -oh yes it's up there M777

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Jan 2011 06:47

Gaur
I am not sure what new benefits will be provided

i do not think its a question of benefits as much as taking the time to review the status of each disabled soldier and make sure their needs are not lost or discarded as flotsam and jetsam of a hectic overstretched army life

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jan 2011 06:47

Received by email.

A sad but telling comment of our present times.

Army must live up to Cariappa

SK Sinha

(The author, a retired Lieutenant General, was Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu & Kashmir)

The Indian Army celebrates January 15 as Army Day. This is a landmark date in its history. It was raised as a colonial army nearly three centuries ago and became a national Army on August 15, 1947. Yet, till January 14, 1949, the top leadership of the Army was British; only on January 15, 1949 did an Indian, for the first time, become its chief. This was the fulfilment of a demand for inducting Indians as officers in the Army made by Rammohan Roy before a Select Committee of the House of Commons in 1833.

The Uprising in 1857 ruled out the acceptance of that demand. Starting with the second session of the Indian National Congress in 1886, this demand was revived repeatedly in its subsequent resolutions. The imperialists vehemently opposed this. Two wellknown commanders-in-chief had strong views in the matter.

Lord Roberts wrote, “Native officers cannot take the place of British officers. Eastern races, however brave and accustomed to war, do not posses the qualities that go to make good leaders of men”.

Lord Kitchener wrote about deep-seated racial repugnance in the Army: “Chiefly it is due to an honest belief — which is not altogether unfounded — that any substitution of Indians for British officers must be detrimental to the interests of the Army”. It was only after the First World War that in recognition of the outstanding contribution of the Indian soldier, recognised the world over, the British government allowed a very small trickle of Indian officers into the Army. General, later Field Marshal, KM Cariappa was among the first batch of some half a dozen Indians commissioned in 1919. I was a student in Patna when I first heard of Cariappa. There was a news item with his picture in the national newspapers in 1942 saying he was the first Indian to be promoted to the rank of Lt Colonel. Soon after I joined the Army in 1944, I heard that he was the first Indian to be promoted to brigadier. Little did I then imagine that I would have the great good fortune of working closely under him.

I first met Cariappa on August 14, 1947 at a farewell party given by Indian officers to departing British and Pakistan officers. Cariappa was the chief host and among the guests were Lord Mountbatten and Field Marshal Auchinleck. In his speech he gave fulsome praise to British officers for building our wonderful Army. He was sentimental about officers going to Pakistan, saying, “We have shared a common destiny for so long that our history is inseparable. We have been brothers. We shall always remain brothers”. A silver trophy showing a Hindu and a Muslim soldier holding their rifles pointing towards a common foe was presented to Brigadier Raza, the senior officer going to Pakistan. What an irony. In less than three months Indian and Pakistan soldiers were shooting at each other on the battlefields of Kashmir. On August 15, 1947 Cariappa was promoted to major-general and became the first Indian general officer. On January 20, 1948, he took over as Western Army Commander in the rank of lieutenant-general, again the first Indian officer to hold that high rank. I was a major at that headquarters as General Staff Officer, Operations. We were conducting operations in Kashmir. I had to brief him in the Operations Room about the operational situation in Jammu and Kashmir. He complimented me on my briefing and enquired about the most threatened place in the state. I replied that there were reports of heavy enemy build-up against Naushera and a major attack appeared imminent. He said he would like to go there the next day. I accompanied him to Naushera. He went round the defences and then told Brigadier Usman that Kot feature overlooked our defences and must be secured. Two days later Usman mounted a successful attack against that feature. He named it Operation Kipper, the general’s nickname. A week later, over 10,000 enemy attacked Naushera. With Kot held by us, our troops inflicted a crushing defeat on the enemy, who retreated leaving over 900 dead. This was the biggest battle of the Kashmir war. Usman became a national hero.

Cariappa would spend some 10 days every month on tour in Kashmir and I invariably accompanied him as his staff officer. I recall two instances of his personal courage. We were travelling in a jeep to Uri. The brigade commander suggested to him that the flag and star plate on the car be removed as the area near Hemen Buniyar was under enemy observation and prone to sniping. Cariappa refused and said he wanted to see how accurate the enemy firing was.

On another occasion, Cariappa stood on a hilltop near Tithwal to survey enemy positions. The local commander told him that the enemy could observe us and we should view the area from inside a bunker. He ignored his advice. We all stood in the open for a few minutes. As we started coming down the hill, an enemy shell landed where we had been standing.

Cariappa was a few years older than my father in age. I marvelled at his stamina and energy. I found it not easy to keep pace with him. He was a staff officer’s nightmare. No detail, no matter how small, escaped his eyes. I had to keep jotting down numerous points and prepare copious tour notes.

One day, as we returned from tour, we saw his two children coming out of his other staff car. They had missed the school bus. The ADC had sent the staff car to fetch them. Cariappa was furious at the misuse of government transport. He directed me to initiate disciplinary action against his ADC. Next morning he sent for me and enquired what action I had taken. I told him that I had admonished him and he had assured me that he would not make that mistake again. He enquired, “What about the loss of petrol to the government?” I replied that we were depositing `40 in the Treasury, at the prescribed rate for the eight miles for which the staff car had been used. He said the amount should be debited to his personal account. Apart from the highest standard of personal integrity, Cariappa was a strict disciplinarian. He summarily sacked three serving major-generals, one for being drunk at a function in Raj Bhavan at Mumbai, the second for being unduly friendly with a junior officer’s wife, and the third for misuse of regimental funds.

In 2010, a year of scams galore, the image of the Army has also been besmirched along with that of the judiciary, bureaucracy, media, and, of course, the political leadership. The Army needs to recall the high standards set by Cariappa and endeavour to live up to them.
__________________

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 16 Jan 2011 09:04

Northern Command investiture ceremony: 62 soldiers decorated with medals

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 16 Jan 2011 09:16

Re. all these plans for raising new formations - where are they going to find the officers for all these new raisings? Doesn't the army already have a serious shortage of officers?

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 16 Jan 2011 09:35

Artillery guns by year-end : Indian Army

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 16 Jan 2011 10:24

What exactly does the army do to deal with the effects of the officer shortage? Do they increase the strength of each unit, so every officer ends up commanding more men than he would if there was no shortage?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 16 Jan 2011 11:17

^^
I do not know how the army deals with the shortage but AFAIK the shortage is mainly at the junior rank level. So, there is no problem at the CO level where you need Lt. Col and above ranks.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 16 Jan 2011 11:35

Gaur wrote:^^
I do not know how the army deals with the shortage but AFAIK the shortage is mainly at the junior rank level.

Actually that's what I'm more interested in. So, if you have a shortage of Lieutenants and Captains, you basically don't have enough officers to command all your Infantry sections and platoons. So what do you do? Increase the number of soldiers in each section and platoon and consequently decrease the numbers of those units to match the number of junior officers available?

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 16 Jan 2011 17:00

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/129 ... proof.html

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Jan 2011 17:15

chetak wrote:Received by email.

A sad but telling comment of our present times.

Army must live up to Cariappa

SK Sinha

(The author, a retired Lieutenant General, was Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu & Kashmir)

...................................................

Nice. Thanks.

This should go on the Army web site if possible.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Jan 2011 21:13

WRT shortage of officers:

You've cases of junior officers commanding companies;platoons are being commanded JCOs/Senior NCOs....

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Jan 2011 21:23

Wanted to share some good news: a freind of mine revcieved Southern Command GOC-in-C's commendation card this Army Day......

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 16 Jan 2011 21:34

rohitvats wrote:WRT shortage of officers:

You've cases of junior officers commanding companies;platoons are being commanded JCOs/Senior NCOs....

Wasn't that the case anyways? I remember a post by RayC in response to my doubt. He said that Lieutenants are too junior to command anything. So, platoons are commanded by JCO and companies by Majors, with Captains as 2nd-i-c.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Jan 2011 03:27

Bulletproof jackets for troops

The new jackets and helmets will not only better protect the head, neck, chest, groin and sides of soldiers but also allow them to move with greater agility than the heavy obsolete ones they are currently saddled with.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Jan 2011 04:55

rohitvats wrote:Wanted to share some good news: a freind of mine revcieved Southern Command GOC-in-C's commendation card this Army Day......

Congrats to that chap!! Is the commendation card awarded for battlefield valour?

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 17 Jan 2011 11:50

NDTV feature on T-90
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/i ... ank/187856

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jan 2011 14:34

Indian Army Skiis to South Pole
..:: India Strategic ::..

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jan 2011 14:42

ARMY Modernisation Needs a Major Push
..:: India Strategic ::..

By Brig (Retd) Gurmeet Kanwal

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 17 Jan 2011 15:26

Thought Id post this tidbit about a little known Corps of the Indian Army... the PIONEER CORPS. Commanded by Engineering officers, this is a corps of construction troops, used for forward deployment engineering, clearing of obstacles, field construction, etc. A valuable asset, the corps is one of the oldest in the Army, and still exists, although it is the smallest of the engineer corps today.

http://indianarmy.nic.in/Site/FormTempl ... zY=&flag=p

Role

Pioneer Corps units are intended to provide disciplined and well trained manpower, where civilian labour is either not available, or its employment is not desirable for reasons of security. Pioneer units are mostly committed in forward and operational areas. They may also be employed as guards and escorts for headquarters, installations, ammunition trains and convoys.

History

The birth of the Pioneer Corps is entwined with the historic struggle for the independence of India . It is the only Corps in the Indian Army that can take legitimate pride in the fact that it has emerged during 1758 in Madras Residency. The origin of the Pioneer Corps dates back to 1758 in Madras , where the first pioneer companies were formed. By the time World War-I broke out, there were as many as twelve pioneer regiments consisting of one battalion each of pioneers in the Indian Army. These were the 12th, 23rd, 32nd, 34th and 48th known as the Bengal Regiments, the 23rd, 32nd and 34th being the Sikh Pioneers; the 61st, 64th and 81st of Madras Army; the 107th, 121st and 128th of the Bombay Pioneers and 106th of the Hazara Pioneers.

Due to their proven usefulness during World War-I, twelve more battalions of Indian Pioneers, six of which were to the Sikh Corps, were added. After the first war, re-organization was carried out in 1922, and single battalion Corps were replaced by regiments of several battalions. Three pioneer regiments were created, grouped and numbered according to original historical date of raising. However, when the whole army was grouped into regiments in 1922, the historical position was taken according to the date of ancient formation, whether as Pioneers or ordinary Infantry. The three pioneer regiments now formed, had a total of nine service battalions and three training or depot battalions, with a single battalion with Hazara Pioneers. They were as follows: -

(1) 1st Madras Pioneers.

(i) 1st Battalion (raised in 1758) 61st KGO Pioneers
(ii) 2nd Battalion (raised in 1759) 64th Pioneers (The Elephant).
(iii) 10th Battalion (Training) (raised in 1786) 81st Pioneers.

(2) 2nd Bombay Pioneers.

(i) 1st Battalion (raised in 1788) 107th Pioneers
(ii) 2nd Battalion (raised in 1838) 12th Pioneers (Khelati-Ghilzie)
(iii) 3rd Battalion (raised in 1846) 128th Pioneers
(iv) 4th Battalion (raised in 1901) 48th Pioneers
(v) 10th Battalion (Marine) (Training)) 121st Pioneers (raised in 1777)

(3) 3rd Sikh Pioneers.

(i) 1st Battalion (raised in 1857) 23rd Sikh Pioneers.
(ii) 2nd Battalion (raised in 1857) 32nd Sikh Pioneers.
(iii) 3rd Battalion (raised in 1887) 34th Royal Sikh Pioneers.
(iv) 10th Battalion (Training) 2/23rd Sikh Pioneers. (raised in 1917)

(4) 4th Hazara Pioneers.

(i) 1st Battalion(raised in 1904) 106th Hazara Pioneers.

The Pioneers Corps was re-raised during the World War-II with the following role : -

(a) To provide semi-skilled labour to work with Engineer units on engineering tasks such as
demolition, construction of roads, tracks, bridges, defences and water supply.

(b) To provide un-skilled labour at store holding installations such as Engineers, Army
Service Corps, Army Ordnance Corps and Medical Corps depots.

The re-organization commenced on 24 Jun 1940 at Jhelum (now in Pakistan ), with Labour Corps Depot and a few independent pioneer units, which were designated as labour companies. The Corps was redesignated as Auxiliary Pioneer Corps with effect from 25 Nov 1941 and became the Indian Auxiliary Pioneer Corps with effect from 13 Oct 1942. During the years 1941 to 1942, its strength rose to 73 Indian Auxiliary pioneer battalions, each consisting of four labour companies.

The designation and organization of the Corps units underwent various changes. On 11 Sep 1943, the Auxiliary Pioneers battalions were re-organized into Indian Auxiliary Pioneers Group, which constituted of 416 Indian pioneer companies and 49 Indian pioneer group HQ (Each HQ Group consisted of 8 to 10 pioneer companies). During 1943, the depot was elevated to the status of a Training Centre and it moved to Jalna in Maharashtra . The Corps was redesignated as Indian Pioneer Corps with effect from 27 Nov 43, and the category of labourer was changed to Pioneer (Non combatant). ‘The total strength of the Pioneer Corps during 1945 towards the end of World War-II was 1,99,420 men, the third biggest in the Indian Army. The date of re-designation as Auxiliary Pioneer Corps, ie, 25 Nov 1941 is being celebrated as the Raising Day of the Pioneer Corps’.

A Directorate was set up in 1944 (presently Pioneer Directorate at Army HQ) for co-coordinating the pioneer activities throughout India . On cessation of hostilities in World War-II, general demobilization started from 01 Oct 1945. The total strength of the Corps was reduced from 1,99,420 to 5,740 by 01 Mar 1948. Later 46 HQ pioneer groups were also disbanded in Jan 1954.

In view of the increased operational commitments in Kashmir , Ladakh, North Uttar Pradesh border and NEFA since 1959, the inevitable need of Pioneers for construction and maintenance of roads, tracks, shelters, helipads and airstrips, and for assistance in building up logistics support was felt. As such the Corps was once again expanded.

The local porter companies were re-designated as labour companies in 1961 and became pioneer companies ( Northern Comand ) in 1963. These were subsequently reorganized and re-designated as pioneer companies in 1964.

On 28 Mar 1948 the Training Centre moved from Jalna to Mathura . On account of heavy reduction in the strength of the Corps, the Training Centre was reorganized as Pioneer Corps Records and Depot with effect from 01 Aug 1950 and it moved to Nainital on 24 Aug 1954. The Training Centre has moved to following various stations since its inception : -

Year(s) Station

1943 to 1947 Jalna ( Maharashtra )
1948 to 1949 Mathura
1950 to 1964 Nainital
1965 to 1974 Alwar (Rajasthan)
1975 to 1991 Bangalore (Hebbal)
1992 to Date Bangalore (Agram)

Ethos

The oldest and least glamourous of all services, yet it is omnipresent in all stages of warfare. Pioneer Corps units provide disciplined and well trained manpower, where civilian labour is either not available, or its employment is not desirable for reasons of security. Pioneer units are mostly committed in forward and operational areas. They may also be employed as guards and escorts for headquarters, installations, ammunition trains and convoys.

"Through all major wars the contribution of the Pioneer has been tremendous. He is an important element in all spheres of activities with the engineers he builds bridges, repairs railways, maintains roads; with the service corps he brings up vital supplies and stores; with the ordnance corps he keeps up the flow of guns and ammunition; he works in hospitals or acts as stretcher bearers with frontline troops ".

True to these words, the Pioneers have been there to support the operations of all arms and services, both in war and peace. Their resilience and eagerness to undertake all type of duties is aptly summed up in their motto; SHRAM SARVA VIJAYEE -meaning 'With Labour, everything can be won'. The Pioneer Soldier is always true to his tasks.

Achievements/Contribution in Nation Building

World War II. The Pioneers have enriched their experience under operational conditions. Indian Pioneers during World War II have been deployed all over the world like Italy , Greece , Turkey , Middle East ( Sudan , Palestine ), Indonesia , Malaya , Singapore , Burma et al. Through the jungles of Burma , across the plains and deserts of North Africa and deep into the heart of Italy , personnel of Indian Pioneer Corps have militarily done the spadework without which the victories in these theatres could never have been achieved. That they have worked like Trojans, through worst monsoons keeping the road fit for traffic, repaired landlines, filling in breaches, tarring and metalling roads, opening of the railway line from Orte to Arezzo (1217 Indian Pioneer Company) as part of the operations of the 8th Army, speaks volumes for itself for their great devotion to duty.

The Pioneers were forward troops during the 8th Army’s advance into Tunisia and Cecilia. Arduous to essential job of not only carrying supplies and ammunition in the jungles of Aragon (Burma) but also constructing tracks for men and mules, working for over 72 hours without pause to get essential supplies to the forward troops. The Pioneers also constructed flood bank in all Bailey bridges over Maricha River in Rimi , Italy , Tripoli and other roads in Italy . 8 Special Pioneer Company constructed summer camps on the sandy seashores of Nahariya near Haifa ( Palestine ).

Under mental and physical stresses by loading and unloading ships, trains and vehicles under extreme heat, sandy and stormy climatic conditions in Persia and Iraq , their tales of bravery know no bounds. The Pioneers thwarted the Germans and Italians in Tobruk and recaptured the fortress, seized their arms and drove them out. Following achievements bear testimony to the valour of Pioneers:-

(a) Lt Joseph William Wright of Indian Pioneer Corps was awarded Military Cross (MC) for
gallantry in Italy (Mt Cairo). He motivated the Indian Pioneers by sheer inspiration under
continuous artillery and mortar shelling at Mount Cairo and ensured delivery of supplies to the
forward posts.

(b) Pioneer Abdul Subhan of 1436 Pioneer Coy (27th Group of Indian Pioneer Corps) was
awarded Certificate of Gallantry while evacuating the casualties from Mandok across Tan chi
on the Sanghi River through swirling currents and carrying the wounded for 15 miles on his
shoulders.

(c) 1247 Indian Pioneer Company was awarded the US 5th Army’s Plaque and Clasp by
Gen Mark Clark. Where the mules failed, the Indian Pioneers succeeded.

(d) Pioneer Pyara Singh was awarded Indian Distinguished Service Medal (IDSM) for
delivering supplies and rations at 4,000 feet under heavy artillery and mortar fire.

(e) Jemadar Mehar Singh was awarded Military Cross in Italy (Mt Cairo).

(f) Havildar Inder Singh was awarded the Military Medal for gallantry in Italy (Mt Cairo).

(g) Subedar Subhas Elahi Bux was awarded Military Cross.

(h) Several Kaiser - e - Hind silver medals were awarded to Pioneers by Gen Sir Claude
Auchenleck for gallantry.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jan 2011 15:46

interesting to note UK and Arg antarctic stations are side by side and the Args have named it "Belgrano II"

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 17 Jan 2011 18:22

Singapore and Indian armies conduct bilateral artillery exercise

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Jan 2011 09:53

Years after Bofors, Army may finally induct howitzers in 2011
Times of India

chandanus · Post by **chandanus** » 18 Jan 2011 14:56

http://warfare.ru/store/store.html

Weapon systems on sale...any comments

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 21 Jan 2011 16:58

Army court finds Lt. Gen. Rath guilty in Sukna land scam

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 23 Jan 2011 21:57

what happen to BEMLs JV with polish OBRUM for futuristic ultra light tanks ?

almost a year is completing after they signed MoA regarding this

http://beta.thehindu.com/business/compa ... 109124.ece

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 23 Jan 2011 22:01

Indian Soldier to Be Equipped with Modular Bullet-Proof Vests

After having faced major criticism for the sad state of military gear that the Indian soldier is equipped with, the Indian Army will soon import modular light-weight bullet-proof jackets and ballistic helmets with internal communication gear. The need for better body and head armour for the soldier has been heightened due to the continual counter-insurgency operations in the country.

According to the Indian Army, the General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQRs) has been remodelled and modular jackets will be imported from potential foreign vendors. The trials for the same will be conducted at the Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory, Chandigarh and later in Rajasthan deserts and mountains of Jammu and Kashmir. The Indian Army will be equipped by these modern bullet-proof jackets by 2012.

Apparently, over ten companies have elicited their interest in supplying these modular jackets and the Indian Army’s tender indicates that 150,000 bullet-proof jackets will be inducted in the first phase and another 180,000 will be acquired in the second round.

The new bullet-proof jackets will be ergonomically designed, light-weight, modular and fitted to ensure agility and maximum protection. Two kinds of jackets are being envisaged by the Indian Army. For a “low threat perception” mission, the jacket will weigh less than 4 kilograms and have a trauma pad with a soft armour plate all around it and a high threat mission jacket which will weigh 10.5-11.5 kilograms with hard armour plates all around it. The latter will provide protection against 7.62mm x 39mm mild steel core ammunition fired from an AK-47 from 10 meters. Unlike the conventional bullet-proof jackets, these vests can be taken off part by part depending on the mission of the soldiers.

According to the report by the Parliamentary Panel, the Indian Army was short of 1,86,138 bullet-proof jackets despite being authorized 3,53,765 new ones way back in March 2004. Besides that, the current bullet-proof vests weigh over 11 kilogram thereby hampering the agility of the soldier who carries other equipment as well. These new acquisitions by the Indian Army are crucial to plug the gaps in its operational capability and enable effective and decisive actions in response to hostile situations.

http://indiadefenceonline.com/2441/indi ... oof-vests/

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 24 Jan 2011 16:04

Article on IA's newst arty div. Claims it will be stood up by year-end. Some stuff on a new SF unit as well.....

http://www.dailypioneer.com/312885/Indi ... power.html

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 24 Jan 2011 19:19

Will MBT Arjun be kept out of Independence Day parade?
I don't see it any photos.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jan 2011 19:48

getting the feeling the new SF unit might be a "Vympel" style group tasked with really unconventional missions...likely staffed with people fluent in tibetan, mandarin, and other chinese ethnic languages.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2011 21:07

Wasnt the SFF also supposed to be the same?

Problem is that we raise all the "elites" with good intentions and best of abilities but lack the political $#^% to actually conduct those sort of missions...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Jan 2011 00:42

^^^The fact that PARA SF get used in COIN does not take away from their main role. Also, SG is there if some 'elite of elite' formation is required. IMO, we might see new raising of SF unit...something along the lines of 21 MLI converting to 21 SF.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Jan 2011 00:56

Singha wrote:getting the feeling the new SF unit might be a "Vympel" style group tasked with really unconventional missions...likely staffed with people fluent in tibetan, mandarin, and other chinese ethnic languages.

Or maybe something like green berets.Such a unit can prove to be tremendous force multiplier by organizing and coordinating tibetan resistance.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Jan 2011 01:13

rohit!!!!

a thousand lashes to you

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2011 02:14

sum wrote:Wasnt the SFF also supposed to be the same?

Problem is that we raise all the "elites" with good intentions and best of abilities but lack the political $#^% to actually conduct those sort of missions...

And use them to protect corrupt looters.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Jan 2011 02:31

ramana wrote:
sum wrote:Wasnt the SFF also supposed to be the same?

Problem is that we raise all the "elites" with good intentions and best of abilities but lack the political $#^% to actually conduct those sort of missions...

And use them to protect corrupt looters.

I think its SRG not SAG which makes Mantri-Ji protection firewalls. But its still a shame they are used for this role.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 25 Jan 2011 03:21

sum wrote:Wasnt the SFF also supposed to be the same? Problem is that we raise all the "elites" with good intentions and best of abilities but lack the political $#^% to actually conduct those sort of missions...

The SFF was supposed to be the nucleus of the Tibetan Army, primarily Sino-Centric. Get down on your knees and thank your gods that no one was mad enough to set in motion World War III - because that was the only scenario in which SFF would have been thrown in full force. Tibet may or may not have gained an army, but Lop Nur, Delhi, Beijing and many other places would have been nuclear wastelands.

There is nothing in this report, except Singha saab's spidey sense, that this is anything like that. In fact, it rather sounds like a return back to the 1 Para (Cdo)'s role as the AHQ's dedicated strategic reserve special forces (from back when Cdo Bttns were geographically specialized; a perfectly good idea that was too hastily abandoned). The AHQ, of course, already has the 50th Bde as its strategic reserves - so presumably it is looking for something smaller and sharper.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Jan 2011 03:43

darshhan wrote:
Or maybe something like green berets.

If you are talking about Green Berets, in Indian context that would be the Para(SF).