Indian Army: News & Discussion

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rahulm
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rahulm »

Echoing RayC, why do we assume India does not retaliate?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by santoshriyer »

To aditya G can you tell me where you got this pic from pls. Is it something you have shot.

BTW I only see one blue outpost on the chinese side.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

santoshriyer wrote:To aditya G can you tell me where you got this pic from pls. Is it something you have shot.

BTW I only see one blue outpost on the chinese side.
It is from daylife.com, would be proud to say I took it myself! :wink:
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Surya »

all rapids , ramids all meaningless

till I get my 155 mms (truck and SP) :((
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Paging one and all:

Does anyone has complete list of airports and ALG in NE in general and Arunachal Pradesh in particular? Please to provide link/information to this Talib.
Thank you in advance.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Tanks and carriers on army shopping list
New Delhi, Nov. 15: The Indian Army is in the market to buy hundreds of new troops carriers and tanks to reshape and re-inforce its mechanised forces, partly for deployment in high-altitude border zones and partly for counter-insurgency operations.
...
...
It has issued requests for information to buy 300 light tanks and 100 armoured personnel carriers (APCs). It expects to increase the total number of new APCs to 500 in five years.
...
...
An army source said the light tanks were to be deployed in high-altitude areas, particularly along the border with China.

The army maintains a small unit of heavy T-55 and T-90 tanks in North Sikkim, near the China border.
...
...
The Indian Army is in the process of raising two new mountain divisions. Each division will have about 17,000 troops. The first is likely to start deployment in the Northeast, including the Arunachal border, by the end of the year.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Generals told to depose on land deal
http://telegraphindia.com/1091117/jsp/s ... 749952.jsp
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

rohitvats wrote:Paging one and all:

Does anyone has complete list of airports and ALG in NE in general and Arunachal Pradesh in particular? Please to provide link/information to this Talib.
Thank you in advance.
this has the AFS list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... orce_bases

I will look for the ALGs.

added later :
http://peoples-post.com/nation/in-focus ... ounds.html
In Arunachal Pradesh, Machuka, Tuting, Ziro and Vijaynagar, are to be re-activated soon. While Vijaynagar is an ALG, the other three are airstrips.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/306 ... achal.html
The advanced landing grounds (ALG) will be upgraded so that the armed forces’ regular troop carrier AN-32 or the upcoming heavy-lift C-130J Hercules could land there, IAF vice chief Air Marshal PK Barbora said here on Wednesday.

Machuka, Tuting, Vijainagar, Ziro, Walong and Pasighat are the six ALGs being upgraded for landing of transport planes with materials and troops. This is part of a prime ministerial package to improve the aviation infrastructure in the north east.
this has some details.
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-north ... stics.html
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Babui »

In the photo on the Chinese post...is that a road snaking off in the background? If it is - then I'm deeply impressed :shock:
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

this has the AFS list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... orce_bases

I will look for the ALGs.

added later :
http://peoples-post.com/nation/in-focus ... ounds.html
In Arunachal Pradesh, Machuka, Tuting, Ziro and Vijaynagar, are to be re-activated soon. While Vijaynagar is an ALG, the other three are airstrips.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/306 ... achal.html

The advanced landing grounds (ALG) will be upgraded so that the armed forces’ regular troop carrier AN-32 or the upcoming heavy-lift C-130J Hercules could land there, IAF vice chief Air Marshal PK Barbora said here on Wednesday.

Machuka, Tuting, Vijainagar, Ziro, Walong and Pasighat are the six ALGs being upgraded for landing of transport planes with materials and troops. This is part of a prime ministerial package to improve the aviation infrastructure in the north east.
this has some details.
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-north ... stics.html
Rahul, than you for the link. BTW, the locations mentioned (Machuka, Tuting, Vijainagar, Ziro, Walong and Pasighat) are already in operation and used by the AN-32. Remember the Scenario I in C-17 thread about Air-Maintanance (AM) requirement? These location, I do not know wether to call them ALG or airstrip, are the ones used for the AM role and AN-32 do fly in to them. Yes, for use by C-130 , they will need to be extended. But the problem is availability of real estate for the expansion.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by kapilrdave »

Looks like there is no end of the 155mm howitzers.
Can anybody tell me why Bhim is not considered for this?

I searched through the forum but could not find a related post so sorry if this has been discussed before.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by RayC »

Converting ALGs to accept heavier aircraft does not only mean extension, it also means reinforcement of the tarmac!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Scam casualty: Army Deputy Chief's posting is cancelled
...
Sources said the Ministry has written to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet (ACC), withdrawing the appointment of Rath as Deputy Chief due to the ongoing Court of Inquiry (CoI) into the land scam which has also brought two other serving Lt Generals under the scanner. The process to appoint a new Deputy Chief has been initiated, the sources said.

While Rath has been attached to Kolkata for the inquiry, one of the seniormost officers of the Army, Lt Gen Avadhesh Prakash, who is the Military Secretary (MS) at Army HQ, has also been called for questioning. This has caused a lot of discomfort in military circles as the MS is in charge of making all key appointments in the Army.
...
...
Defence Minister A K Antony has sent a strongly-worded note to Army HQ, asking it to conclude the inquiry soon and fix responsibility at the earliest.

Antony, who has also ordered a separate inquiry, has written that the involvement of senior officers in such matters is “not only damaging the image of the Indian Army” but will also “adversely affect the ability of senior officers to measure up to the expectations of the men they lead”.
...
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by anirban_aim »

RaviBg wrote:Scam casualty: Army Deputy Chief's posting is cancelled
...
Sources said the Ministry has written to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet (ACC), withdrawing the appointment of Rath as Deputy Chief due to the ongoing Court of Inquiry (CoI) into the land scam which has also brought two other serving Lt Generals under the scanner. The process to appoint a new Deputy Chief has been initiated, the sources said.

While Rath has been attached to Kolkata for the inquiry, one of the seniormost officers of the Army, Lt Gen Avadhesh Prakash, who is the Military Secretary (MS) at Army HQ, has also been called for questioning. This has caused a lot of discomfort in military circles as the MS is in charge of making all key appointments in the Army.
...
...
Defence Minister A K Antony has sent a strongly-worded note to Army HQ, asking it to conclude the inquiry soon and fix responsibility at the earliest.

Antony, who has also ordered a separate inquiry, has written that the involvement of senior officers in such matters is “not only damaging the image of the Indian Army” but will also “adversely affect the ability of senior officers to measure up to the expectations of the men they lead”.
...
What the hell is going around here??? Am I to be left with no heroes to look up to at all?? Am I to listen to all those who gave me long theories of general degeneration of society in general and how soldiers are also part of the same society, etc...

Its much more comforting to be naive and I'm choosing to be that. I've always believed in the the character and quality of the man in OG. Always wanted to be one, but could not. So with a prayer and a wish I close my ears and my eyes and wish the man in OG the very best always.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Gaur »

^^
It is unrealistic to believe that any organization can be free of faults like corruption. Everyone in the organization cannot be an angel. That would be naive thinking.
So what differentiates a model organization from the rest?
A model organization would make sure that the guilty are be punished no matter what.
India is full of corrupt organizations. Could you name "one" organization which punishes its powerful and influential people? Even when s**t hits the fan, all the responsibility is thrust towards the lower hierarchy while the senior bosses, who are the real culprits, roam scott free. If you have enough seniority, no one can touch you.
IA, on the other had punishes even its most powerful and influential. Even being a Lt.Gen would not save you in IA. What more can one ask for?
When you see news reports of corruption inquiries, keep track of them.
See how nearly in all the IA inquiries, the conclusion is reached as quickly as possible and the guilty (if any) are swiftly punished.
I hope if one day, I would be able to say the same for other organizations.
So, when you see media reports of inquiries in IA, remember how many needed inquiries are not taking place in other organizations. Remember that there is at least one organization where, if you break the rules, your rank and influence would not help you.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 68#p504668
Lt-General A.K. Kalkat, a former army commander in Manekshaw's regiment, remembers a conversation between Manekshaw and a general accused of misusing funds: "Sir, do you know what you are saying?" asked the general. "You are accusing a general of being dishonest." Replied Manekshaw: "Your chief is not only accusing you of being dishonest but also calling you a thief. If I were you I would go home and either shoot myself or resign. I am waiting to see what you will do." The general submitted his resignation.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Vijai nagar = chaukan pass
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by AnimeshP »

Gaur wrote:^^
It is unrealistic to believe that any organization can be free of faults like corruption. Everyone in the organization cannot be an angel. That would be naive thinking.
So what differentiates a model organization from the rest?
A model organization would make sure that the guilty are be punished no matter what.
India is full of corrupt organizations. Could you name "one" organization which punishes its powerful and influential people? Even when s**t hits the fan, all the responsibility is thrust towards the lower hierarchy while the senior bosses, who are the real culprits, roam scott free. If you have enough seniority, no one can touch you.
IA, on the other had punishes even its most powerful and influential. Even being a Lt.Gen would not save you in IA. What more can one ask for?
When you see news reports of corruption inquiries, keep track of them.
See how nearly in all the IA inquiries, the conclusion is reached as quickly as possible and the guilty (if any) are swiftly punished.
I hope if one day, I would be able to say the same for other organizations.
So, when you see media reports of inquiries in IA, remember how many needed inquiries are not taking place in other organizations. Remember that there is at least one organization where, if you break the rules, your rank and influence would not help you.
To add to your point ... just see what happened after the Tehelka sting operation ... all the faujis were court-marshalled and punished ... and we are still waiting for any one on the civilian side to be even charged ...
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by sanjaychoudhry »

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Jagan »

Rahul, than you for the link. BTW, the locations mentioned (Machuka, Tuting, Vijainagar, Ziro, Walong and Pasighat) are already in operation and used by the AN-32.
Fellas, Are the following ALGs AN-32 capable?

Tuting
Ziro
Walong
Pasighat

Also any coordinates for these airfields so that I can look them up on GE?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

Gagan
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Gagan »

Jagan wrote:Also any coordinates for these airfields so that I can look them up on GE?
Jagan do you have an email?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Gagan »

I like it when the powers that be and consequently the media use the word "Indian Subcontinent" :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Jagan »

Gagan wrote:
Jagan wrote:Also any coordinates for these airfields so that I can look them up on GE?
Jagan do you have an email?
jagan atherate warbirdsofindia daat com
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

Kersi D
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Jagan wrote:Also any coordinates for these airfields so that I can look them up on GE?
Jagan do you have an email?[/quote]

jagan atherate warbirdsofindia daat com[/quote]

Can you als send me the coordinates on kersikdotiwalla at rediffmail dot com

K
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Sumdorung Chu revisited
By N S Narahari

Indian response to aggres-sive Chinese posturing has evolved over the years thanks to relatively greater military preparedness.

The last couple of months have witnessed high decibel media and public outcries over the Chinese intrusions across the LAC (Line of Actual Control) and McMahon Line into Indian territory. There have been diplomatic protests about the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh. The Chinese outburst about our PM’s visit to this border state spices up India-China relations.

The latest twist in this drama being orchestrated by Beijing is the identical stand taken by India and China at an international forum on global warming. This does not mean that we should make the mistake of believing that all is well. The verbal acrimony both in the Chinese media and diplomatic channels is the outcome of the long outstanding border and territorial disputes between the two sides. The Chinese strategy has always been to use this methodology to pressurise India and try to keep us in a state of strategic imbalance.

The Indian response by both the prime minister and the external affairs minister has been firm and mature. This posture has evolved thanks to relatively greater military preparedness to cope with such contingencies on the ground. For instance, the army and the air force continued with their planned exercises in Arunachal Pradesh.

All this is in stark contrast to New Delhi’s reaction to the Chinese intrusion into the area of Sumdorung Chu valley in the Tawang sector of Arunachal Pradesh in June 1986 and the events that followed during the next two years. At that point in time, India and China appeared to be on a collision course; but their bilateral relations settled down by mid-1989 after the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi visited China and the eighth round of talks took place between the two sides. By then ground realities had changed.

In this backdrop it would be in order to re-visit to Sumdorung Chu incident as it, in my opinion, was the turning point in our military and political psyche towards China.
There appeared to be some minor doubt over the alignment of the McMahon Line in a couple of areas and the China Study Group (CSG), was formed in New Delhi to provide inputs to Indian delegations before talks with the Chinese. The CSG had laid down small kinks south of the McMahon Line beyond which no army or para-military forces could patrol and Sumdorung Chu was in one such area.

On June 23, 1986, the Intelligence Bureau reported to the local army commander that a large number of Chinese troops had intruded into Sumdorung Chu. It appeared to be an abnormal pattern of intrusion. The intruders had brought five or six tents and appeared to be digging in. The Chinese troops were in a tactically unsound area but could move up.

Timely action

The local army commander occupied the Langrola heights overlooking the Chinese post. This was followed by starting the construction of a mule/vehicle track for logistics. The Chinese had a motorable track up to Leh which was close by. To give security to forward troops an artillery battery was deployed 3- 4 km short of the McMahon Line. All these actions were reported to New Delhi through army channels.
The army on its part undertook operational preparations to ensure the security and integrity of the international border or the McMahon Line. These events seem to have sent alarm bells ringing at New Delhi, more so at the CSG. The local army commander was asked to withdraw his troops from the forward posture, preferably in full view of the Chinese troops!

However, the local commander resisted any such move which would not only affect psychologically the army, but also the people of Tawang who had seen the army debacle in 1962. The Rimpoche at the Tawang monastery expressed his concern and support for the army’s actions. Meanwhile, the Research & Analysis Wing indicated the additional induction of Chinese troops into Tibet. This time Indian Army was not coming second best.

Accordingly, the military mandarins in New Delhi launched a series of operational discussions, war games and so on to mentally and physically prepare the troops on the ground to tackle any escalation. The tension passed and thereafter, for the last two decades, the tenor of the Chinese side seemed to have mellowed down till it decided to ratchet up its activities again again over the last couple of years over Arunachal Pradesh.

Lately, the Chinese military commanders must have observed the construction of the defence works, helipads and roads and would have concluded that this time there may not be any possibility of ‘low cost’ options. India now has the psychological advantage over its adversary.

While Indian military strategy should be reactive, it should not aim to start a war or a skirmish but prevent one and keep our powder dry. Meanwhile, we should expedite infrastructure development to support military operations along the India-China border. It always helps to make your adversary clearly know your strengths.

(The writer was the corps commander at Tezpur in 1986-88, and was responsible for the security of Arunachal Pradesh)
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by AnimeshP »

Got this in an e-mail today ....
Any one more secular than the army?



As a serving army officer, I never stop marvelling at the gullibility of our countrymen to be provoked with alacrity into virulence in the name of religion. I have never heard the word 'secular' during all my service -- and yet, the simple things that are done simply in the army make it appear like an island of sanity in a sea of hatred.

In the army, each officer identifies with the religion of his troops. In regiments where the soldiers are from more than one religion, the officers -- and indeed all jawans attend the weekly religious prayers of all the faiths. How many times have I trooped out of the battalion mandir and, having worn my shoes, entered the battalion church next door? A few years ago it all became simpler -- mandirs, masjids, gurudwars and churches began to share premises all over the army. It saved us the walk.

Perhaps it is so because the army genuinely believes in two central 'truths' -- oneness of god and victory in operations. Both are so sacred we cannot nitpick and question the basics.

In fact, sometimes the army mixes up the two! On a visit to the holy cave at Amarnath a few years ago I saw a plaque mounted on the side of the hill by a battalion that had once guarded the annual Yatra. It said, 'Best wishes from -....- battalion. Deployed for Operation Amarnath.

On another instance, I remember a commanding officer ordered the battalion maulaviji to conduct the proceedings of Janamashtmi prayers because the panditji had to proceed on leave on compassionate grounds. No eyebrows were raised. It was the most rousing and best-prepared sermon on Lord Krishna I have ever had the pleasure of listening to.

On the Line of Control, a company of Khemkhani Muslim soldiers replaced a Dogra battalion. Over the next few days, the post was shelled heavily by Pakistanis, and there were a few non-fatal casualties.

One day, the junior commissioned officer of the company, Subedar Sarwar Khan walked up to the company commander Major Sharma and said, "Sahib, ever since the Dogras left, the mandir has been shut. Why don't you open it once every evening and do aarti? Why are we displeasing the gods?"

Major Sharma shamefacedly confessed he did not know all the words of the aarti. Subedar Sarwar went away and that night, huddled over the radio set under a weak lantern light, painstakingly took down the words of the aarti from the post of another battalion!

How many of us know that along the entire border with Pakistan, our troops abstain from alcohol and non-vegetarian food on all Thursdays? The reason: It is called the Peer day -- essentially a day of religious significance for the Muslims.

In 1984, after Operation Bluestar there was anguish in the Sikh community over the desecration of the holiest of their shrines. Some of this anger and hurt was visible in the army too.

I remember the first Sikh festival days after the event -- the number of army personnel of every religious denomination that thronged the regimental gurudwara of the nearest Sikh battalion was the largest I had seen. I distinctly remember each officer and soldier who put his forehead to the ground to pay obeisance appeared to linger just a wee bit longer than usual. Was I imagining this? I do not think so. There was that empathy and caring implicit in the quality of the gesture that appeared to say, "You are hurt and we all understand."

We were deployed on the Line of Control those days. Soon after the news of disaffection among a small section of Sikh troops was broadcast on the BBC, Pakistani troops deployed opposite the Sikh battalion yelled across to express their 'solidarity' with the Sikhs.

The Sikh havildar shouted back that the Pakistanis had better not harbour any wrong notions. "If you dare move towards this post, we will mow you down."

Finally, a real -- and true -- gem....

Two boys of a Sikh regiment battalion were overheard discussing this a day before Christmas.

"Why are we having a holiday tomorrow?" asked Sepoy Singh.

"It is Christmas," replied the wiser Naik Singh.

"But what is Christmas?"

"Christmas," replied Naik Singh, with his eyes half shut in reverence and hands in a spontaneous prayer-clasp, "is the guruparb of the Christians."
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanju »

Animesh,

IIRC correctly that email is an exact copy of an article written by Maj. Gen. (Retd) Ashok Mehta for Rediff.com many moons ago.
Nice read though.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by RayC »

Sanju wrote:Animesh,

IIRC correctly that email is an exact copy of an article written by Maj. Gen. (Retd) Ashok Mehta for Rediff.com many moons ago.
Nice read though.
And a true one too!

Many here wonder why I am so 'secular'!

Can't help it!

Training to be an Indian and not of any religion!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by krishnan »

AnimeshP wrote:"Christmas," replied Naik Singh, with his eyes half shut in reverence and hands in a spontaneous prayer-clasp, "is the guruparb of the Christians."
[/quote]

gurpurab!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by aditp »

NEWS FLASH

The Black Cat Division of the India Army on Saturday (November 28) showcased its military firepower during a demonstration at Chhangu Lake near the Sino-India border. The display of firepower at the China Border is seen as a clear sign of military muscle flexing by India. The peaceful ambience around the Chhangu Lake reverberated with the firing on mock target from Bofors guns, field guns and mortars during the exercise named. The aerial capability of the army was displayed by the high speed and versatile Cheetah helicopters in a mock drill for tactical support to ground troops. Communication, engineering and logistics equipments were also on display.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by sum »

The Black Cat Division of the India Army on Saturday (November 28) showcased its military firepower during a demonstration at Chhangu Lake near the Sino-India border.
Which is the black cat division?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

sum wrote:
The Black Cat Division of the India Army on Saturday (November 28) showcased its military firepower during a demonstration at Chhangu Lake near the Sino-India border.
Which is the black cat division?
17th Mountain Division.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ashkrishna »

A heart warming read...
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Jamal K. Malik »

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by anirban_aim »

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/3_indian ... e_scam.php
The case involves 70 acres of land, owned by the Army, in Siliguri in North Bengal. An army inquiry has found that the three generals colluded to lease this land to a group of businessmen for a project worth 290 crore.
The same project had been rejected by their predecessors on security grounds, pointing out that any building on this land would overlook helipads and other sensitive army installations. So the new sanction raised an alarm.

The biggest offender is Lieutenant General Avadesh Prakash, the Military Secretary, one of the eight Principal Staff Officers at Army Headquarters. Being posted at the HQ, he had no jurisdiction over Siliguri. The court of inquiry says he took undue interest in the Siliguri project, possibly because of old links with businessman Dilip Agarwal. Agarwal allegedly promised General Prakash a job after his retirement in February.
Prakash then pressured the then-Commander of the 33 Corps, Lieutenant General PK Rath to clear the 70-acre deal.

Sources say that Rath has confessed to having taken the decision at Gen. Prakash's behest. It is alleged that Prakash, who was in-charge of promotions at the HQ, promised Rath a plum posting there.

And then there's Lieutenant General Ramesh Halgali. At the time of the scam, he was a Major General, and deputy to Rath. He's been found guilty on administrative grounds - not giving his boss the correct advice.
Ray C, any first thoughts?? :oops:

The reason I'm bringing this particular case the second time is that I know the place and the core in question. One of the oldest in IA. :cry: :cry:
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

anirban_aim wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/3_indian ... e_scam.php
The case involves 70 acres of land, owned by the Army, in Siliguri in North Bengal. An army inquiry has found that the three generals colluded to lease this land to a group of businessmen for a project worth 290 crore.
Another report mentioned that the land does not belong to the army. However, as it abuts the army area, NOC was sought.Whats with leasing the land to the business?
RayC
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by RayC »

anirban_aim wrote:

Ray C, any first thoughts?? :oops:

The reason I'm bringing this particular case the second time is that I know the place and the core in question. One of the oldest in IA. :cry: :cry:
I too have served in this Corps, but I am not too sure which part of the area in Sukhna is in question. Further, there was this report which stated that it was an NOC for some adjoining area, which was not Army land.

Land is not under the jurisdiction of the military and instead is with the Defence Estates organisation which is independent of the Army.

Therefore, it get curiouser! I am not too sure of the status of this land.

I am sure it is a serious case and if found guilty, then they would be cashiered.
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