Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby K Mehta » 05 Mar 2010 16:25

^ The Colonel browses BRF i think. we had some discussion on this some time back.
Put automated doors and lowering machines, no need to go back 100 metres though!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 05 Mar 2010 22:51

Fall back 100 meters? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND??? this article i'm sorry to say is nothing more than a POS. Indian Army has NEVER fallen back, and I hope will continue to NEVER FALL BACK, even if it is for half an inch!!! The intensity, anger, and motivation one can get staring down their arch nemisis is well worth the Flag hoisting at the ACTUAL border line!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Craig Alpert » 05 Mar 2010 22:53

Maoist objective is to overthrow Indian state: Home Secretary
Analysis of Naxal attacks has revealed detailed and precise planning. Some aspects that point to possible involvement of ex-army and ex-para military personnel:

Lethal use of improvised explosive device (IED)
Precise, pin-pointed intelligence-based attacks on vulnerable posts/camps
Practice of swift retreat/melting away after attacks with arms looted from security forces

It was a virtual face-off between the Home Secretary and writer-activist Arundhati Roy who challenged Pillai's statement that Maoists are virtually building an army to overthrow the state of India.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 05 Mar 2010 23:00

ASPuar sahab, I don't think it was bumbling, rather a well calculated move by a certain lobby.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 07 Mar 2010 11:24

Rahul M wrote:ASPuar sahab, I don't think it was bumbling, rather a well calculated move by a certain lobby.



Similar motivated morons also diluted the Army -- DRDO equivalence and landed all service officers in a mess.

We have even had some equally motivated DRDO lab directors claiming to be equivalent to the COAS, before they were laughed out of the meetings.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 08 Mar 2010 14:56

chetak wrote:
We have even had some equally motivated DRDO lab directors claiming to be equivalent to the COAS, before they were laughed out of the meetings.


:shock: Which lab director claimed such a thing? :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 08 Mar 2010 15:40

ASPuar wrote:
chetak wrote:
We have even had some equally motivated DRDO lab directors claiming to be equivalent to the COAS, before they were laughed out of the meetings.


:shock: Which lab director claimed such a thing? :rotfl:


They were the "legend in his own mind" type of gentlemen.

Let them enjoy their retirement in peace!!

Their accounting will come soon enough.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2010 15:55

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deep_battle

soviet deep battle theory - emerged from intellectual generals and writers but honed and refined in
the harsh crucible of WW2 in the steppes of ukraine, russia and belarus and the hills of eastern europe.
----

The theory moved away from the Clausewitzian principle of battlefield destruction and the annihilation of enemy field forces, which obsessed the Germans. Instead deep operations stressed the ability to create conditions whereby the enemy loses the will to mount an operational defence. An example of this theory in practice is Operation Uranus in 1942. The Red Army in Stalingrad was allocated enough forces to hold the German Sixth Army in the city, causing attrition which would force it to weaken its flanks to secure its centre. Meanwhile reserves were built up, which then struck at the weak flanks. The Soviets broke through the tactical zones of the German flanks and exploited the operational depth, closing the pocket at Kalach-na-Donu.

The operation left the German tactical zones largely intact. But by occupying the German operational depth and preventing their retreat the German Army forces were isolated. Instead of reducing the pocket immediately, the Soviets tightened their grip on the enemy forces, preferring to let the enemy weaken and surrender, starve him completely, or a combination of these methods before delivering a final destructive assault. In this way the Soviet tactical and operational method opted to siege the enemy into submission, rather that destroy it physically and immediately.

In this sense, the Soviet deep battle, in the words of one historian, “was radically different to the nebulous ‘blitzkrieg’” method, although it produced similar if more strategically impressive results

,,,,,,,,,,,,

Soviet military analysts and historians subdivide the war into three distinct periods. The Red Army was primarily on the strategic defensive during the first period of war (22 June 1941–19 November 1942). By late 1942 the Soviets had recovered sufficiently to put their concept into practice. The second period of war (19 November 1942 – 31 December 1943), which commenced with the Soviet strategic counteroffensive at Stalingrad, was a transitional period marked by alternating attempts by both sides to secure strategic advantage. Since then, deep battle was used to devastating effect, allowing the Red Army to destroy hundreds of Axis divisions. After the Battle of Kursk the Soviets had firmly secured the strategic initiative and advanced beyond the Dnepr River. The Red Army maintained the strategic initiative during the third and final period of war (1944 – 1945) and ultimately played a vital role in the Allied victory.[35]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Isserson, much like Varfolomeev, divided his Shock Armies into two. One to undergo the tactical mission of breaking the enemy forward (or front line defences) and the other to exploit the breakthrough and occupy the operational zone whilst destroying enemy reserve concentrations as they attempted to counter the assault. The exploitation phase would be carried out be combined arms teams of mechanized, airborne, infantry and motorised forces.[18]

The breadth of the attack zone was a critical factor in Soviet calculations. Isserson asserted an attack over a frontage of 70 to 80 kilometres would be best. Three or four Rifle Corps would make a breakthrough along a front of 30 kilometres. The breakthrough zone (only under favourable conditions), might be expanded to 48 to 50 kilometres, and addition of another Rifle Corps. Under these conditions, a Rifle Corps would attack along a 10 to 12 kilometre front, with each division in the Corps' first echelon allocated a 6 kilometre frontage. A fifth supporting Rifle Corps would make diversionary attacks along the flanks of the main thrust to tie down counter responses, confuse the enemy as to the area of the main thrust and delay his reserves from arriving
.[18]
...............
Isserson calculated the Red Army's attack echelon must be of 100 to 120 kilometres in length. He estimated the enemy tactical defences, which would layer about two lines, would be shallow in the first instant; stretching back some 5 to 6 kilometres. The Second line would formed behind, and be made of 12 to 15 kilometres of defensive depth. Beyond this lay the operational depth. This would be larger and more densely occupied than the first, embracing the railheads and supply stations to a depth of 50 to 60 kilometres. Here the main enemy forces were concentrated. The third zone, beyond the operational depth was known as the strategic depth. This zone served as the vital link between the country's manpower reservoirs and industrial power-supply sites and the area of military operations. In this zone lay the headquarters of the strategic forces, which included the Army Group level.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2010 16:01

seems to me the T-80 and T-55 was intended to break the thick hide of the NATO defences in
europe, in co-operation with gun ship helis and lots of artillery, while "operational manouver groups" of T-72 / BTR / BMD and BMP mechanised and tank divisions would be unleashed into the rear through
gaps and ignoring any fight, head straight for the logisitical and industrial centers deep in the rear :twisted: ably supported by the 10+ airborne divisions in the red army

sher khan would have to fight without a logistical tail at the front with the germans, belgian and dutch,
while simultaneously moving 1000s of tanks and IFVs from east coast to french, portugese, dutch and spanish coasts.

I'd bet the war would go tactically nukular in around 5 mins from H-Hour. definitely a brown khaki kind
of war when the biggest elephants fight.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby anirban_aim » 08 Mar 2010 20:51

Rahul M wrote:ASPuar sahab, I don't think it was bumbling, rather a well calculated move by a certain lobby.


Rahul Ji, though it may have been a move orchestrated by a certain lobby, but can we overlook the fact that the letter was actually signed by the MS in the end? What shall we call it harakiri??? Or are they are getting just too uninspired after multiple failures to defend their turf. :-?

I'm willing to google and learn as I go. Request any pointers as to from where can I start.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 08 Mar 2010 21:04

^^^Singha, while the Soviet evolution of Deep Battle over the course of WWII is impressive, one needs to understand that the period over which the Soviet Deep Battle Concept/Operational Art matured was also the period when German Nation became week. The allied bombing reduced the ability of German industries to produce the necessary amount of tanks and other reinforcements.

Even with their limitations, the German generals like the Manstein were repeatedly able to beat the Soviets and extract their forces from the encirclement while destroying the Soviet Mechanized forces during the battles..............In the end, it was a fight between the industrial production capabilities of nations..If the German Army had been able to maintain the required number of strength, it might not have been all that easy of Soviet Mechanized Forces....

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Nayak » 08 Mar 2010 22:51

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Courtesy Vayu

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Nayak » 08 Mar 2010 23:07

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Courtesy vayu

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby narmad » 09 Mar 2010 05:36

India may hand Swiss Army Knife to its 1.3m troops
The company, which supplied the original knife to the Swiss Army in 1891, has produced a prototype, built according to specifications supplied by the Indian Army, that it hopes will lead to an order to supply the 1.3 million-strong force.

The Indian Army, which has to operate from the freezing peaks of the Himalayas to the deserts of Rajasthan, insisted on two: a saw to cut metal and a marlinspike, used to untangle knots.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 11 Mar 2010 12:06

Army doesn't want any more Arjun tanks! - from Shiv Aroor's blog

The month-long "comparitive" trials of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank end on March 15, but the DRDO's Combat Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE) will have to gear up to face its worst fear, this time officially -- the Army will not order more tanks over and above the 124 already ordered. I've just spoken with a senior Defence Ministry official, who said that the DRDO would be formally told later this month that no further orders will be placed on the current configuration of the Arjun by the Army, and that further orders would be only possible on the Mark-2 or the FMBT as and whe


http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/ar ... arjun.html

That's a real blow to DRDO...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 12 Mar 2010 08:36

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aqs2SBacwhA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aqs2SBacwhA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Would such a soldier be what the Future Infantry man that the IA is wanting to achieve?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Brando » 12 Mar 2010 09:32

^^ Not likely. This the kind of "show" that militaries that don't have the fight put on.

All those electronics and sights use power and once the batteries start dying and you are far from base, the $100,000 equipment and scopes amount to dead weight that is slowing you down, tiring you out and impeding you survivability. Most likely all the officers would be getting the data management systems while the rest of the soldiers get more important things like better uniforms, shoes, helmets, body armor and guns. Especially in India where soldiers are deployed for extended periods in remote areas! Plus, it would hard for the common jawan to keep actively typing and reading text messages and entering target data continuously- something like a battlefield wiki map, when most of them are less than fluent in English and aren't tech-savvy.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 12 Mar 2010 09:48

Image

The 1.1 million-strong Indian Army is going hi-tech to turn its troops into fighting machines of the 21 century, complete with the latest multi-function weaponry and uniforms with sensors to monitor their health parameters.

"We have put in place an action plan to modernize the armed forces in all dimensions. A project, code-named F-INSAS (Future Infantry Soldier as a System), has been taken up to train futuristic soldiers, equipped with latest weaponry, communication network and instant access to information on the battlefield," Chief of Army Staff General Joginder Jaswant Singh said.

"In my view, the next war will be won by the side that is adept at high technology with all-weather fighting capability," the army chief said on the sidelines of a military function here.

With IT and electronic gadgets calling the shots in the armed forces worldwide, the Indian Army is gearing up to equip its soldiers with war-fighting capability and to prevent battle fatigue.

"As in civilian and other sectors, we would like to make optimal use of ICT (information and communication technology) for which Indian tech firms are known worldwide. We will be investing substantially to make our operations -from war zones to civil lines - digital, with seamless connectivity for online access to information systems," Singh said.

Under the F-INSAS project, the troops will be put on a multi-mission mode to accomplish different tasks with speed, precision and lethality. In the first phase, to be completed by 2012, the infantry soldiers will be equipped with modular weapon systems that will have multi-functions.

Thermal imagers, sensors and night vision equipment, currently deployed in weapon systems such as artillery and main battle tanks, will be customised to make them portable for carrying by the soldiers in the battle ground.

"Apart from imparting modern training and providing hi-tech gadgets, we are also working on a new attire that will enable the troops carry the extra load and resist impact of chemical warfare. The new uniform will have vests with sensors to monitor their health parameters and provide quick medical relief," Singh pointed out.

Indian Army To Invest In F-INSAS (Future Infantry Soldier as a System) Programme


I had this mind when I asked the question.

I am aware the F-INSAS as a project has been initiated, I have some inkling of the same but not in detail and so I thought someone out here who has the detail could educated without going in details of fact that are not in the open forum.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 12 Mar 2010 12:33

RayC wrote:Would such a soldier be what the Future Infantry man that the IA is wanting to achieve?


Ray sir, Since you have extensive combat experience, would you want to carry a plethora of sophisticated electronics which need your attention to work or would you want to carry a lighter-weight converged device which provides integrated comms and situation awareness but in turn doesn't require active engagement from the soldier? The former is what is shown in the YouTube video, the latter is what is turning out to be more desirable (at least in trials I have attended). It seems the average soldier prefers 2 things: (1) max. availability of awareness for himself and immediate squad/platoon members. Any prompting must be discreet, any information display must be glanceable (an example of a glanceable display is your car's speedometer);(2) min. burden on himself to provide info back. In fact if he is being used as a battlefield sensor (a growing requirement), he would prefer #2 to be automated 100% and #1 to be real-time, localized and simplified. And the communication unit of desire which is at the center of it all right now is a hardened version of what you carry in your pocket. Note though that I am primarily talking of infantry here and not of mech./arty etc.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 12 Mar 2010 13:48

I can't say about the soldier since it would require greater IT education and yet let me tell you, though one may think they are duds, they are not. They have already mastered many things that when I visited the unit I thought was tough for me!


I am sure with training, they will rise to the occasion and today's boys are not total illiterates!

In fact, one jawan got the software okayed when I visited the unit for the Reunion!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Samay » 12 Mar 2010 18:28

For F-INSAS ,............
[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D7tObbS1IN8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D7tObbS1IN8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 12 Mar 2010 18:54

Raja,

You all are tech savvy. I cannot claim that distinction and so cannot quite comment, more so since I have not experienced any such gadget, except a demo on the GPS.

Indeed, if there was a single gadget doing everything that one would require in a battle, that would be ideal.

The issue that I think that is important is that of knowing the combat situation at the moment. This is not only for the soldier but for commanders at all level so that the situation can be approached with a synergy.


The soldier has to know his interse capability with his own group, while the commanders at all level have to be aware how to move resources (including manpower, reinforcement, supplies) to supplement the combat power of the group in action.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 13 Mar 2010 20:58


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 14 Mar 2010 09:49

Miracle Mission
The Indian Express

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 14 Mar 2010 13:03

RayC wrote:Indeed, if there was a single gadget doing everything that one would require in a battle, that would be ideal.

There will never be such gadget - the trick is in ensuring the right trade-off and finding that sweet spot of utility.

RayC wrote:The issue that I think that is important is that of knowing the combat situation at the moment. This is not only for the soldier but for commanders at all level so that the situation can be approached with a synergy.

The soldier has to know his interse capability with his own group, while the commanders at all level have to be aware how to move resources (including manpower, reinforcement, supplies) to supplement the combat power of the group in action.


Exactly. I was mainly referring to the former - namely, the soldier at the bottom of the pyramid. Right now the commander-level capabilities for such visualization and control already exist for US which has all sorts of inputs and feeds tied in (came into public prominence during 1993 Somalia incident), but as one goes down the pyramid, thats where the pinch is. Thats why you have all these initiatives where the individual soldier is the main focus, where he gets plugged into the higher layers. But the Achilles heel of any such effort is when the soldier gets over-burdened with all sorts of whiz-bang tech just because the technology exists and is cool and the fact that the "smart" technology is still not smart enough to operate autonomously and intelligently at the same time. Regardless of all the 1000s of papers churned out in HCI, context awareness and what-not, the basics of computer science behind them still remain fairly primitive. Hence, designing any such system which makes a smart soldier is still a pretty uphill battle and one only sees cool demos like the above video, till now and not deployments.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 14 Mar 2010 14:23

India’s Stalled Arms Buying Leaves Its Army Outgunned by China

The government in five years has canceled two tenders for artillery guns, a contract for ammunition propellant and two helicopter tenders, together worth at least $4 billion. No contract exceeding $100 million has been awarded through competitive bidding in at least 23 years, said military analyst V.K. Kapoor. Defense Ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar said he couldn’t immediately identify the last such deal.
India’s “military capacity and preparedness are being reduced because of the inadequacy of the procurement process,” said Uday Bhaskar, director of the National Maritime Foundation, a New Delhi research institute on strategic issues. The military’s upgrading is “on hold and its obsolescence is increasing.”

The cancellations have disrupted attempted weapons sales by Textron Inc.’s Bell Helicopter unit in Fort Worth, BAE Systems Plc and South Africa’s Denel Ltd. Bhaskar said they have hurt troop readiness along more than 4,200 kilometers (2,600 miles) of Himalayan frontiers, where India has fought three full-blown wars with Pakistan and one with China. India took 20 years to negotiate a 2004 contract for jet trainers, even as 157 pilots died in three decades of jet fighter crashes blamed partly on inadequate training craft.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 14 Mar 2010 15:33

RayC wrote:
Image

The 1.1 million-strong Indian Army is going hi-tech to turn its troops into fighting machines of the 21 century, complete with the latest multi-function weaponry and uniforms with sensors to monitor their health parameters.

"We have put in place an action plan to modernize the armed forces in all dimensions. A project, code-named F-INSAS (Future Infantry Soldier as a System), has been taken up to train futuristic soldiers, equipped with latest weaponry, communication network and instant access to information on the battlefield," Chief of Army Staff General Joginder Jaswant Singh said.

"In my view, the next war will be won by the side that is adept at high technology with all-weather fighting capability," the army chief said on the sidelines of a military function here.

With IT and electronic gadgets calling the shots in the armed forces worldwide, the Indian Army is gearing up to equip its soldiers with war-fighting capability and to prevent battle fatigue.

"As in civilian and other sectors, we would like to make optimal use of ICT (information and communication technology) for which Indian tech firms are known worldwide. We will be investing substantially to make our operations -from war zones to civil lines - digital, with seamless connectivity for online access to information systems," Singh said.

Under the F-INSAS project, the troops will be put on a multi-mission mode to accomplish different tasks with speed, precision and lethality. In the first phase, to be completed by 2012, the infantry soldiers will be equipped with modular weapon systems that will have multi-functions.

Thermal imagers, sensors and night vision equipment, currently deployed in weapon systems such as artillery and main battle tanks, will be customised to make them portable for carrying by the soldiers in the battle ground.

"Apart from imparting modern training and providing hi-tech gadgets, we are also working on a new attire that will enable the troops carry the extra load and resist impact of chemical warfare. The new uniform will have vests with sensors to monitor their health parameters and provide quick medical relief," Singh pointed out.

Indian Army To Invest In F-INSAS (Future Infantry Soldier as a System) Programme


I had this mind when I asked the question.

I am aware the F-INSAS as a project has been initiated, I have some inkling of the same but not in detail and so I thought someone out here who has the detail could educated without going in details of fact that are not in the open forum.


Mr Ray,

Don't you think that these type of systems will overwhelm the foot soldier / tank commander with data / information which may or may not be useful to him at that point of time ? I have also read a bit (not much) about such systems being developed by a number of countries.

In my humble opinion what our foot soldier needs is
1) "Fool proof" BPJ
2) Unjamable guns with lots of ammo.
3) High quality battle dress and helmet. This would vary for different regions like desert, high altitude, plains, tropical forests etc. The dress should be light comfortable, provide protection without affecting flexibility and mobility
4) Indirect fire power. Mortars, artillery CAS.
5) Protection against enemy air attack, plenty of MANPADS and air superiority provided by IAF.
6) NVG

These are my suggestions as an arm chair expert. I look forward to your reply based on REAL expertise !

K

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 14 Mar 2010 15:38

Juggi G wrote:Miracle Mission
The Indian Express


GREAT

But why doesn't our great FREE PRESS publish such events in detail ?

Surprisingly BR is very silent on such achievements.

K

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 15 Mar 2010 03:14

Kersi D wrote:
...
2) Unjamable guns ...


Has such a gun even been invented? I know the AK series comes close but most of our COIN troops already have that. And it has its drawbacks as well.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby D Roy » 15 Mar 2010 07:25

What is the point of showing a nice newspaper gameboy graphic of the Future Combat Systems that has been cancelled by the great US Army?

It was one of those Rumsfeldian NCW wet dreams that would never have been realized.

And after "incorporating" the lessons of Eyeraak the US Army now wants a 70 ton Ground Combat Vehicle. :eek: ( ooh aaah so much for strategic mobility)

And guess why the FCS was cancelled-

1. Information overload.

2. the unmanned systems were far from maturity

3. All the new vehicles proposed under the program i.e the MGV platforms were just tooo phucking light skinned to see any serious combat in today's scenarios.

4. The much vaunted active protection systems despite "impressive" tests are far from being active.

5. The NLOS-LS i.e the box launched missile system has repeatedly failed tests even though it continues under a separate program.



So now after shoock and AAAh the Yamrikis are thinking of moving beyond the TUSK upgrade on the Abraams to an M1A3 vehicle.


oh and for all those who came late and are partial towards links ,


http://www.deagel.com/news/US-Armys-Fut ... 06236.aspx
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01 ... ic-future/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/04 ... why-i-kil/
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/22/imagine-a-70-ton-gcv/ ( so much for weight and ooh aah strategic mobility)

see that graphic is DDM at best. Take a poster from a cancelled US "foooturistic program" and paste it in an article where you talk about the Indian Army's "Transformation".

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby RayC » 15 Mar 2010 09:42

Kersi,


One has to understand Network Centric Operations and the vertical and horizontal spectrum that it is intended to encompass.

There is no doubt that information of the battlefield has to be known to all those who have planned the operation and by those who are conducting it. The issue is down to what level this spectrum should be realtime. There is no doubt that one of the drawbacks of battlefield is that commanders who are conducting the operation as also those who are actually conducting the actual battle on ground are immensely ‘blind’ to what is termed as ‘situation awareness’ since the battlefield is dispersed even at the company and even the platoon level; more so during the night (those who are in the battle). Hence, it is not in its true sense ‘relatime’.

It will be appreciated that as in every field of life or occupation, the value of realtime information cannot be ignored.

Therefore, Situational Awareness becomes a paramount need. It will permit timely actions that could be taken to minimise casualties or synergise the progress the battle suitably through changes, even if they are minor, and that would indeed change the complexion of the battle. It would also ensure sustainability and speed of operations. This structure maybe called Plan Decision Shooter Grid.

On the issue of the Indian soldier being capable or not to handle technology, already the Indian soldier is handling many a technologically modern gadgetry and systems. For instance the Signal equipment or the EW equipment, missiles etc. The infantry soldier is no longer the archetypal one. When I last visited the unit, I was totally taken aback at the knowledge, determination, drive and ingenuity of the soldier. Their knowledge of the computer, computer and electronic based system and their use was most impressive. Further, I found that they were capable of independent decision making without waiting for directions from the top! That is a very good sign.

I am not too sure about the equipment shown whether it will befuddle the trooper and I cannot comment since I have not seen the equipment. A YouTube demonstration is not adequate to understand a weapon or system.

However, that NCW maybe a reality in India is borne out by this link
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ntric.html

A Network Centric soldier is not quite a fantasy.

Here are some examples:
FELIN (Fantassin à Équipements et Liaisons Intégrés) - Future Infantry Soldier System, France will provide the soldier with improved close-combat capability in terms of lethality, survivability, mobility and C4I (command, control, computers, communications and information).

Under the FELIN contract, Sagem will deliver up to 22,500 FELIN V1 sets for 20 infantry regiments and an additional 9,000 FELIN sets for use by the troops of the armoured, engineering and artillery regiments of the French Army.
50 pre-production FELIN systems were delivered in September 2007 and trials with these are underway. 358 pre-production FELIN sets are scheduled for delivery in 2008 for operational evaluation. Three infantry companies will undertake a series of trials of the pre-production systems of the FELIN systems. The trials are scheduled to last 12 months.

A major U.S. defense subcontractor is taking another step toward developing a wearable computer system to link infantry soldiers to DOD networks on the digital battlefield.

The Raytheon Co. Network Centric Systems segment in McKinney, Texas, delivered 10 Ground Soldier System (GSS) Increment 1 prototype wearable computers in September as part of a rapid development program to deploy rugged computer systems for foot soldiers who must connect to network centric systems.

Raytheon GSS Inc 1 links the infantry leader to the battlefield network for real-time tactical situational awareness. The soldier system incorporates human factors engineering and analysis for a comfortable fit made to endure harsh environments and long warfighter missions.

The issues you raise are also very valid. Without them, Network Centric Operation would be invalid.

Admiral William Owens is said to be the one who visualised Network Centric Operations.

Lastly, if one studies the ideas of Rumsfeld dispassionately (the US may have lampooned him, but they had to find a scapegoat since Iraq tarnished their uber alles image), he has said and done many a thing which the US are still doing. Or else, why is the Futuristic Soldier programme still on in the US?

What Rumsfeld said was nothing new. It falls under the RMA, which in actuality is a programme that initially was started in USSR.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 15 Mar 2010 13:41

CNN-IBN: 4 Army Jawans killed in blast in Pokharan

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby biswas » 15 Mar 2010 14:59

abhishek_sharma wrote:CNN-IBN: 4 Army Jawans killed in blast in Pokharan


RIP Jawans!

Hope this was an accident not a terrorist strike.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Nihat » 15 Mar 2010 17:05

yes , it most certainly was an accident

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Juggi G » 16 Mar 2010 07:37

Bangla Army Chief to Visit Siachen
The Indian Express
Manu Pubby
Posted : Tuesday, Mar 16, 2010

In a First, the Bangladesh Army Chief, who is on a five-day tour to India, will on Tuesday visit the disputed Siachen glacier and interact with troops at the highest battle ground in the world. Military Leaders have in the Past Shied away from visiting the Glacier — a source of a bitter boundary dispute between India and Pakistan.

General Mohd Abdul Mubeen will fly down to the Thoise air base and will be given a tour of the Siachen base camp and the Siachen battle school. While the Indian Army is in control of the glacier after it launched Operation Meghdoot in 1984, Pakistan has made several military and diplomatic attempts to gain possession of the area. General Mubeen’s visit to the glacier will be the Latest in a Series of Steps over the past few years to Send Out Signals to the International Community that Siachen is an Integral Part of India. :D :D

In October 2008, US Army Chief General George Casey was Given a Tour of the Glacier where he Interacted with Soldiers.
Since 2007, India has given permissions for several international treks and expeditions in the region surrounding the glacier. A regular annual civilian trek on the heavily militarised glacier is also being conducted for the past three years.

General Mubeen’s visit, however, will be the First by a Senior Military Leader from the Indian Sub-Continent.
The General will fly down to Thoise, the airbase used as a logistics base for soldiers deployed on the glacier, in a special aircraft on Tuesday morning. He will then take a chopper ride to the Siachen base camp where he will interact with senior army officers and troops. He will also be given a tour of the Siachen battle school where troops undergo up to three months of intensive training for deployment on the glacier.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 18:11

A little something that all those "crusaders for justice" media outlets are not bothering to report (AT ALL!):

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_su ... 29_1359735

Sukna scam: Relief for Lt Gen Prakash as SC puts court of inquiry on hold till March 29


PTI
Tuesday, March 16, 2010 16:20 IST

New Delhi: Lt General (retired) Avadhesh Prakash today got interim relief from the Supreme Court, which directed the army not to go ahead with the court of inquiry against him in the Sukna land scandal till March 29.

The court decided to hear Gen Prakash's petition against the order of the armed forces tribunal refusing to quash the court of inquiry against him.

While posting the appeal against the tribunal's order for hearing on March 29, a bench headed by chief justice KG Balakrishnan said that "till such time there shall be no proceedings against him [Gen Prakash]".

Senior advocate Mukul Rohatgi and Jyoti Singh, appearing for the general, alleged that it was a case where the trial had not taken place in a fair manner as witnesses were not examined in the presence of the aggrieved officer.

They said that even the armed forces tribunal held that there was a violation of the principle of natural justice and the court of inquiry was bad in law since the officer was not allowed to be present during the proceedings before the court when the witnesses were examined.

But the bench, also comprising justice Deepak Verma and justice BS Chauhan, disagreed and said the tribunal had given Prakash subsequent relief to cross-examine the witnesses.

"You have been given subsequent relief. All witnesses have been recalled for cross-examination. What else do you require? What else is a fair trial?" the bench said when the counsel argued that the whole inquiry should have been stayed.

Responding to the bench, Rohatgi said the proceedings before the court of inquiry had been termed a "mockery of natural justice" by the armed forces tribunal as 18 witnesses recorded their statements in Prakash's absence.

He said Prakash, who was the 19th witness before the court of inquiry, was converted into an accused.


Without prejudice to the merits of the case, I had said that things as they were being done 2 months ago, would run up against a pretty hard wall when they reached a court of law. Whether he is guilty or not is to be decided by evidence, and not by media circus. Sad that it had to go all the way up to the hon'ble Supreme Court, before the media tamasha came to a halt, and the real proceedings were given a chance to take place.

No less a person that the Defence Minister were hustled and rattled by the media hullabaloo, into ordering a hasty "disciplinary action", without letting the due process of law take its course. Now, this obvious countermanding of his instructions make the ministry look easily manipulable.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby pmund » 16 Mar 2010 19:00

The Pokhran blast was indeed an accident. An 81 mm mortar shell blew up. IIRC a similar incident happened at the Indian Military Academy in 2005, in which a cadet and a couple of instructors were killed. In 2007, a grenade went off accidentally at the range and a cadet and an instructor were killed. Unfortunate, but these things happen.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 21:24

Why do these things happen?

In general, if one goes by the news, because of poor handling of stores, and shoddy production at OFB. Not even one life should be lost because of the use of out of date stores, or bad production. What a terrible waste, and complete self goal! :(

Sad news. I hope their families are at well cared for by the establishment.
Last edited by ASPuar on 16 Mar 2010 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sum » 16 Mar 2010 21:26

pmund wrote:The Pokhran blast was indeed an accident. An 81 mm mortar shell blew up. IIRC a similar incident happened at the Indian Military Academy in 2005, in which a cadet and a couple of instructors were killed. In 2007, a grenade went off accidentally at the range and a cadet and an instructor were killed. Unfortunate, but these things happen.

Can hope and pray its not a QA issue of OFB. :|

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 21:39

:(


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