Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 20 Apr 2010 18:58

Army Chief reviews security on Sino-India border

On his maiden visit to Jammu and Kashmir after taking charge, new army Chief General V K Singh today reviewed the security situation of strategic Sino-India border in the Ladakh region.

Gen Singh, accompanied by his wife Bharti Singh, who arrived on a three-day maiden tour to Leh this morning, was received by the General Officer Commanding in Chief, Northern Command Lt Gen B S Jaswal, Leh-based 14 Corps Commander, Lt Gen S K Singh.

Soon after his arrival, the army chief reviewed the security situation along the Sino-Indian and Indo-Pak borders in Ladakh region, defence sources told PTI.

He was briefed by the field commanders about operational preparedness and various other security measures in the frontier region. Later Singh flew to Srinagar to review the security situation, counter terrorist operation and cross-border infiltration in the area, they said.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 23 Apr 2010 22:59


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby atreya » 23 Apr 2010 23:16

Tejas.P wrote:http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22714&Itemid=1


This is great news! Finally, the Army, will get to do its "real" job, thanks to the CRPF! Lets hope the CRPF does its job equally well, and continues replacing the Army in other areas in J&K.
A question though: Is there any talk of RR being replaced? I don't think so, because the RR is tailor-made for J&K. CRPF is trying to replace ONLY the Army, not RR right?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sum » 23 Apr 2010 23:21

If media reports are/were to be believed, CRPF wasn't still doing a great job like the BSF/Army units it is progressively replacing in J&K.

The singular reason seems to be the lack of a good CRPF intel setup, unlike the MI or the famous "G Branch" of the BSF. Am hoping that CRPF is working towards this and will be fully competent to handle entire J&K internal security in the near future, giving much needed relief to the IA ( though it seems to be the CRPF which is currently getting overstretched with deployments all over the country!!!).

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Tejas.P » 24 Apr 2010 04:38

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/07/28/st ... 600100.htm

The report is dated--2006.I wonder what the progression of SELO and this newly formed intelligence wing has been. Can anyone find any recent information on this?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 24 Apr 2010 13:11

Old army shell explodes, two injured

The incident occurred at Kharar Mangoli, a slum rehabilitation colony, around 15 km from Chandigarh. The victims were identified as Roshan and Lakshman, both in their late 20s.

"Lakshman found an old army shell near Ghaggar river here today (Friday). To extract metal out of it, he hit it with a stone due to which the shell bounced and fell few metres away from him. Immediately on touching the ground it exploded. An onlooker Roshan also sustained injuries," inquiry officer Jangsher Singh said. "Both of them were immediately shifted to a civil hospital here in Sector 6 from where Lakshman was referred to PGIMER (Postgraduate Institute of Medical Education and Research) in Chandigarh in critical condition," he added.

Indian Army's Western Command headquarters is situated at Chandi Mandir, two km from here. "Army cantonment area is near to this place and there is a possibility that an unexploded shell floated down a canal and was found by the victim," said a police official.


Thats tragic..

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby pmund » 27 Apr 2010 22:52

Another tragic case of fragging. The report seems to have got the unit wrong. There is no such thing as 'Maratha Rifles'. A TOI report says it's 12 Madras. I think it's a TA battallion.

---------------------------------------------------

Two JCOs killed by colleagues in Manipur

Imphal, Apr 27 (PTI) In a case of fratricide, two Junior Commissioned Officers of 12th Maratha Rifles were shot dead allegedly by their colleagues in Manipur's interior Churachandpur district, officials said here today.

The incident occurred at Khengjang camp near power station under Churachandpur police station, about 70 km from here, last evening.

The motive behind the incident was not immediately known but initial reports suggested that there was a quarrel between the JCOs and some riflemen.

The army personnel, whose headquarters was located at Khugadam area, a few kms away, were posted at Khengjang post, sources said.

The names of the victims were not yet disclosed by the officials although post mortem has been conducted at Imphal. PTI

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Atri » 28 Apr 2010 17:14

What is "light infantry"?

Why only 3 regiments in India are accorded the status of "Light Infantry"?

What are the factors which lead to raising a particular regiment (Eg Maratha Light infantry, Sikh light infantry etc) as "light infantry"? What role does it serve in attack or defense corps of army column? In modern "Cold Start Doctrine" what will be the relevance of "light infantries"?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ParGha » 28 Apr 2010 18:12

Light Infantry in this sense is a honorific. The Bombay Native Infantry and Sikh Pioneer units that went on to become MLI and SLI had given exceptional service before being given this honor. Same with Rifles designation. JAKLI and JAKR come from state forces, so they were so named by the Dogra princes.

In operational sense light infantry in modern language simply means non-mechanized infantry. Most IA inf bttns can be considered light in that sense.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 28 Apr 2010 18:28

Atri wrote:What is "light infantry"?

Why only 3 regiments in India are accorded the status of "Light Infantry"?

What are the factors which lead to raising a particular regiment (Eg Maratha Light infantry, Sikh light infantry etc) as "light infantry"? What role does it serve in attack or defense corps of army column? In modern "Cold Start Doctrine" what will be the relevance of "light infantries"?


Google is your freind. You can read about history of Light Infantry here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_infantry

Excerpt from the same link:

Traditionally light infantry (or skirmishers) were soldiers whose job was to provide a skirmishing screen ahead of the main body of infantry, harassing and delaying the enemy advance. Light infantry was distinct from medium, heavy or line infantry. Heavy infantry were dedicated primarily to fighting in tight formations that were the core of large battles. Light infantry often fought in close co-ordination with heavy infantry, where they could screen the heavy infantry from harassing fire, and the heavy infantry could intervene to protect the light infantry from attacks of enemy heavy infantry or cavalry. Heavy infantry originally had heavier arms and more armour than light infantry, but this distinction was lost as the use of armour declined and gunpowder weapons became standardized.


By the late 19th century the concept of fighting in formation was on the wane and the distinctions between light and heavy infantry began to disappear. Essentially, all infantry became light infantry in practice. Some regiments retained the name and customs, but there was in effect no difference between them and other infantry regiments.


As stated above, even in Indian Army there is no distinction per se, between LI and other Regiments.

There is no relation between Light Infantry and Cold Start.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ParGha » 28 Apr 2010 18:38

Rohit,
Modern literature does make a distinction between light and mechanized infantry. Because of the very high level of mechanization during Cold War on both sides it became common to refer to any units or formation not equipped with same level of armor and firepower as a standard mech unit as 'light'.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 29 Apr 2010 10:55

ParGha wrote:Rohit,
Modern literature does make a distinction between light and mechanized infantry. Because of the very high level of mechanization during Cold War on both sides it became common to refer to any units or formation not equipped with same level of armor and firepower as a standard mech unit as 'light'.


Sirji, I did stumble upon that fact. That is why I said 'in case of Indian Army'.

And as is expected, it is our amir khan which came out with this concept - especially because it raised division level formations tasked for expeditionary role. Case in point - 10th Mountain Division where the equipment profile and design was customized for reduced weight to allow for rapid deployment and mobility.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Kailash » 30 Apr 2010 14:03

Army foils infiltration bid, 3 dead

"The army has foiled an attempt by militants to infiltrate into (Indian) Kashmir from across the Line of Control (LoC) by killing three militants," army spokesman Lieutenant Colonel J.S. Brar told AFP.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby svinayak » 30 Apr 2010 19:31

Image

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... -year-fast
Seeking Troop Longevity, Indian Military Taps a Holy Man on a Supposed 70-Year Fast

India's Defense Research Development Organization thinks it may have found a new secret weapon: an 82-year-old holy man named Prahlad Jani. His tactical advantage: longevity. Jani claims via the UK's Telegraph that he has not consumed food or drink for 70 years, and military authorities are conducting a rigorous study to see if he's onto something they could use.
Skeptical? You should be. Medical science says -- and there's some variability here based on differences in metabolism, environment, etc. -- that after 3 to 5 days of fasting your glucose levels get seriously out of whack. If you're still hanging around at day 50, you're tougher than most. That's if you're drinking water. If not, "your body can survive a maximum of 3 days without the intake of water, assuming you are at sea level, at room temperature, and a relative humidity," says Bruce Zawalsky of the Boreal Wilderness Institute. That's a far cry from seven decades.
But Indian authorities seem to think Jani could be on to something, and they're trying to find out exactly what it is.
RELATED ARTICLES
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TAGS
Science, Clay Dillow, disaster relief, fasting, health, India, medicine, military, spiritual healthCurrently, Jani is on day six of a 15-day observation session in which he has yet to eat or drink (or perform any of the usual bodily processes that follow ingestion of liquids and solids) according to Indian authorities. And so far, his body has not shown any adverse effects commonly associated with hunger or dehydration.
Jani claims to have left home as a child, living in the streets of Rajasthan as a holy man who lives on spiritual force alone after being blessed by a goddess. He also claims that his body is supported by a hole in his palate, through which the goddess pours a spiritual potion that keeps his body ticking. Naturally he's been called both holy and a fraud, but the fact is he's still humming right along under strict medical observation.
Indian military agencies are interested less in Jani's tales of spiritual blessing and more in mental or physical techniques he could teach soldiers and civilians. They think he could help keep disaster victims hanging tough until help arrives (don't forget India has a large impoverished population that lives in a global neighborhood renowned for vicious monsoons) as well as keep troops in the field longer. From a special forces perspective, there's a certain luster to putting operatives in the field for extended periods without requiring a supply chain.
Indians are known to fast for up to a week at a time in observance of religious traditions, so Jani's six days certainly don't prove anything. In a similar 2003 trial he underwent a 10-day observation session in which independent sources confirmed he consumed no food or water. But those results were later placed in doubt, since Jani did lose a little bit of weight in the final days.
So is Jani a holy man, a natural anomaly, or neither? Safe money says there's some kind of hoax afoot here -- and we certainly don't think he's gone 70 years without food and water -- but all that really doesn't matter. If the man really does go a full 15 days without sustenance and doesn't show any signs of wear or tear, the Indian military may learn something valuable from him anyhow.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shukla » 01 May 2010 06:32

Major General Nair appointed Judge Advocate General

Major General C.S. Nair will take over as the 14th Judge Advocate General (JAG) of the Army on Saturday. A post-graduate in English, Major General Nair was commissioned to the Army Education Corps in December 1978. He is an alumnus of the Kerala Law Academy and practised as a lawyer in the Kerala High Court before joining the Indian Military Academy, Dehra Dun, for pre-commission training, a Defence Ministry release said.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 03 May 2010 22:44

I met a young Capt of JAKLI regiment. Some interesting points came out of the discussion with him. Some were confirmation of known facts while some were new info for me.

1> He cited severe problems with 84 mm rocket launcher (Carl Gustav I assume?). He said that sometimes, when firing the weapon, the ammunition does not get released. This leaves the the soldier with the severe problem of whether the rocket will explode or not.
He also said that while firing the rocket at a terrorist shelter, the rocket was sometimes found to not explode on impact. It just went through walls.

2> I asked him why the INSAS lmg was not replacing bren lmg. He said the reason was that soldiers preferred 7.62mm caliber. He said that 5.56mm kills eventually, but not instantly. So even if the terrorist gets hit by a 5.56mm round, there is a chance of him returning fire. This possibility is eliminated with 7.62mm round.

3> He also was very critical of the 9mm sten gun and 9mm pistols being issued to them. He said that they were very unreliable.

4> He mentioned that allocated UBGLs where somewhat insufficient in no. (This was also mentioned by RayC Sir).

5> I asked him about scopes and optical sights. He said that they were available but troops preferred iron sights. I asked him the reason for that. After all, scopes and optical sights are said to make aiming easier. He said that they are just more comfortable with iron sights. When he was not able to give a satisfactory answer for this preference, I asked if it was because they were trained from the starting with iron sights? He said, Maybe.

6>He also said that they have got orders that they should avoid entering a terrorist shelter at all cost. They should either fire from safe distance or blow the shelter. He said this is because while clearing the shelter, there used to be many causalities. So, unless there is some good reason to enter (like a hostage situation), they are ordered to avoid it.

7> He said that most of JAKLI TA consisted of ex militants. I asked him if they ever had any reliability issues with them? He replied in negative. He said that they were a most important factor in reducing militancy in J&K.

8> I asked him about using air support for in CI ops in forests. I asked him as per popular belief, was it due to avoid collateral damage. He said that it was one of the reason but even if one ignored it, use of attack helicopters would be more problematic to IA than terrorists. He said that jungles were so thick there that it would be very difficult for helis to spot the terrorists while it would be relatively easier for the terrorists (who would be in relative dark and heli would be against bright sky) to take out the helicopter.

9> I asked him whether they were happy with the quantity and performance of NVGs provided to them. He said that NVGs were in sufficient nos and had good performance. He said that they were equipped with both IR and Thermal vision NVGs in sufficient quantities. He said that thermal NVGs provided better vision specially in bad whether but the range of IR NVGs was more.

10> This reminded me of discussion regarding night ops during 26/11. It was mentioned by some knowledgeable forum members about the difficulties of conducting night ops even with NVGs. The forum member had said that sudden increase in light (due to grenade, high muzzle flash or even switching on the lights), causes temp blindness to the user as NVGs basically amplify the light.
I asked the Capt about this. He said that this limitation was for IR NVGs but not for thermal NVGs ( as expected). Then I asked why were thermal NVGs were not used by NSG? He looked at me and said that leave alone thermal NVGs, most of NSG personnel in 26/11 were not equipped with any kind of NVG. They were fighting in the dark. This goes against what BRFites (including me) thought.
Then he said a very shocking thing. He said that he had heard that some NSG personnel (including Major Unnikrishnan) were not equipped with BPJs. :eek: He said that there was shortage even of BPJs. He said that he could not give confirmation for this so take it FWIW.

The discussion went beyond that but I cannot remember anything worth posting for now. Will post if remember something new.

ADDED LATER: He said that some of the NVGs procured were also modified for F-INSAS program. He also mentioned that 2 new BPJs are being tested by them. He said that while firing AK at them, one suffered dents while the bullets passed through other. I asked him about the effectiveness and wgt of their current BPJs. He said that they were reasonably effective. About wgt, he said that he does not know their exact wgt but thinking about it, the BPJs felt around 4kgs to him.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 03 May 2010 22:53

1) and 3) are due to OFB sub-standard products. The round not leaving the launcher is a mis-fire and happens with ordnance. The round passing thru the walls is a fusing issue. Both are big quality problems.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby atreya » 03 May 2010 23:07

That was very informative Gaur. Thank you for posting it.
The first point scared me a lot! Not being able to know whether the rocket will explode or not :shock:
Is there any replacement for Carl Gustavs?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 03 May 2010 23:16

^^
AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with Carl Gustav. It is a fine weapon. As ramana pointed out, the problem lies with OFB's quality control.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby pmund » 03 May 2010 23:50

Sandeep WAS wearing a BPJ. Can't say much abt NVGs but AFAIK, the NSG team in the Taj did have NVGs

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 04 May 2010 00:01

Gaur, NSG had used HHTIs - the terrorists had set fire to most floors and this can confuse any thermal imager. What the captain may be referring to is the fact that each NSG commando did not have a NVG - that might be true but afaik, it is based on the way they operate as a hit.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 May 2010 00:07

As I wrote, he said that "most" were not equipped with NVGs. Also as for the BPJ, I wrote that he could not give any confirmation and said to take it FWIW.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby atreya » 04 May 2010 00:14

What can be a possible solution to point 3? Regarding the INSAS LMG vs Bren?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Babui » 04 May 2010 01:35

Gaur - informative post. However, I think point 6 should be removed as it's tactical info. Just saying.....

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 May 2010 02:04

^^
IMO, this is not a sensitive info. However, if mods feel otherwise, then they will surely edit it out.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sunny y » 04 May 2010 02:23

Thanks a lot Gaurji.....Very informative post...
I almost had an heart attack when i read that some of NSG personnel didn't even have BPJ's :evil: until I read the next sentence.

Did you by any chance get to know whether those NVG's & TI's were indigenous or imported.... I hope they are DRDO/BEL developed one's :|

Thanks

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 May 2010 03:08

^^
Sorry, I did not occur to me to ask him about that. However, AFAIK, the NVGs are imported from Israel and hand held thermal imagers are from Isreal and France. However, as I wrote, he did mention that the NVGs were being tinkered with and upgraded for F-INSAS program.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 04 May 2010 11:54

Light Infantry

If memory serves right, there are subtle distinctions between infantry and light infantry even today. I may be wrong on the numbers, but infantry marches are usually 120 steps/minute whereas light infantry does quick march 150-180 steps/minutes. I believe this is still being followed during drills.

I believe until WW2, LI carried less ammunition & rations to enable effective scouting, skirmishing, recce in force, flanking and outflanking.

Aircraft and Mechanization have taken over the above role, however, LI regiments were effective in the Burma campaign where weather often obscured aircraft and terrain often prohibited mechanized from fulfilling the above roles.


Scopes and optical sights -

Scopes and optical sights get smudged, smeared, scratched, chipped, fungus growth and corroded by mud, dirt, snow, humidity and seawater. Bumps might cause loss of sight alignment that takes time to readjust. Since scopes and optical sights are not part of original design and mostly add ons, they may result in a weight imbalance. Hence soldiers prefer iron sights anytime. Now dont give examples of yankees from HVAC camps or amphibious ships making one patrol per day or Israeli patrolling in close vicinity of their bases.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 04 May 2010 14:56

tsarkar wrote:but infantry marches are usually 120 steps/minute whereas light infantry does quick march 150-180 steps/minutes. I believe this is still being followed during drills.

Another trivia I have heard is that Light Infantry marches out directly from the "stand at ease" position. In other units, troops standing "at ease" are brought to "attention" and then the order for quick march given. Where as for LI, on the command to quick march the troops come to "attention" first, and then marches out. Again this tradition seems to be based on the fact that they were the "Light" Infantry (lighter weapons and less personal stuff to carry) and so could march out quickly.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sum » 05 May 2010 09:39

Army to sack Purohit, but there’s no proof he sourced explosives

The Army has decided to sack Military Intelligence officer Lt Col Srikant Purohit who was arrested in November 2008 for his alleged involvement in the Malegaon blasts in September that year.

The Army took the decision after a court of inquiry found Purohit blameworthy on several counts. It has recommended that Purohit should be dismissed at the earliest by withdrawal of the ‘President’s pleasure’, a stringent clause that is usually applied in serious matters like sedition and spying that require immediate dismissal.

There will be no need for a formal court martial. The final decision will be taken by the Defence Ministry, which will have to forward the matter to the President.

However, no proof has been found to substantiate allegations that the officer sourced the RDX used in the blasts from Army stocks in Jammu and Kashmir. A thorough check of all Army units with which Purohit was even remotely connected has revealed no evidence of missing ammunition or explosives, sources said.
.......

The sources added that investigations have also concluded that Purohit, currently facing trial in a civilian court, was not in a position to get hold of explosives seized during military operations in J&K. Purohit has been found blameworthy on other, less serious grounds. These include a charge that he purchased a bullet-proof jacket for himself without the required permissions. Another charge pertains to his purchase of an unauthorized debugging device with his own money.


Why is he being discharged if there is zilch proof? :-?

Sad that a promising career of a intel officer has ended ( no sympathy if he was what the secular brigade thinks him to be though)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sum » 05 May 2010 09:53

Army Captain and jawan killed in encounter
A Captain was among two army personnel killed in a gunbattle with militants in Bandipora district of north Kashmir on Wednesday

The gunfight broke out in Chattibandi, 60 kms from Srinagar, after army launched a search and cordon operation to flush out militants, a defence spokesman said.

The operation was still continuing when reports last came in.

:x :x :x

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 May 2010 11:20

some LAW type weapons are such once armed they need to be fired else the operator cannot run with them. this is worse as one doesnt know if its going to explode or not in the tube itself.

the managers of the CG line in OFB ought to be taken to task by the raksha mantri.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 05 May 2010 11:44

Odd that there is no proof against Purohit, yet he is being dismissed. The fact that he bought a BPJ with his own cash, can simply be because there is a chronic shortage of quality items of the sort in the Army. He cannot be blamed for it.

Purohits case also came out at the height of the pay commission imbroglio, and immediately after the Armed Forces had refused to implement the suggestions of the VICPC with regard to downgrading Lt Cols vis a vis police counterparts.

The media headlines were blaring with LIEUTENANT COLONEL arrested soon thereafter (which is odd, almost noone refers to Lt Cols as LIEUTENANT colonels, the proper form of address is just 'colonel'- someone had obviously coached them as to what to say). There was something shady about this whole scene. Maharashtra police which arrested him of course, is run by IPS, just as every other police institution is. Very suspicious. Army should just let law take its course, instead of dismissing him without cause.

If it does dismiss him, wait for another 'sambha' type disaster to ensue, with the matter dragging on in courts forever.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 05 May 2010 13:23

From Orbat.Com. Pasting in full:

The term "Cold Start" is itself is pointless jargon. There is no such thing. Never has been. Never will be. You cannot maintain 100% readiness for any except a few select units. You always need warning time. Sure you can fool the other person or he can misread your moves. Pakistan in Kargil; 1999. Egyptian crossing of the Suez 1973. Indian crossing of the international frontier 1965. Barbarossa, 1941. But that's quite different from a Cold Start. In all four cases months of preparation was needed, but the other side misassessed the likelihood of war.

In any case, while India has been talking Cold Start, the Pakistanis have countered Indian doctrine. Time to return to the drawing boards, people. Why not start with a simple vow: "I will not count on gimmicks to defeat the enemy". And a second vow: "I understand there are no short cuts in war."

And since the Indians are ah so veddy American these days, no better place to start, people, than consulting your great pals, the Americans. Talk to them about how they prepared for Gulf I, Kosovo, Gulf II, and Afghanistan.

In theory, the Indian Army takes 10-days to mobilize (pre-Cold Start) and Pakistan takes 3-days. That's because India is a much bigger country than Pakistan, and many of its formations are far from the border for a bunch of reasons we won't bore you with. So many of India's strike and reserve (reserve in the sense of held in reserve, all divisions are active duty) take time to arrive at the border.

In 2001-02 the full concentration took 30-days. Not bad as far as Editor is concerned. Indian Army decided this was pointless because by the time the Indians were ready to go, the Pakistanis were also fully mobilized. Thus Cold Start.

But Cold Start requires 4-days of mobilization, and that is in reality very, very fast if you're talking an offensive. So Pakistan has cut its mobilization time too. (We're waiting information on just how much Pakistan's mobilization time has been reduced.) In any case, one of its strike corps sits right on the border (I Corps) and the other (II Corps) can send units forward within 24-hours and be fully mobilized within - say 96-120 hours. Pakistan was short of units to cover the desert sector in case of a surprise attack: its reserves were at Karachi, Quetta and so on. So it has for a decade been assiduously working on changing this.

The whole problem is that no one, for no reason, attacks out of the blue. There has to be a provocation. Since the Pakistanis will be the ones causing a provocation, don't the Indians think that next time they will be fully prepared before the provocation, unlike 2001-2002 when they were surprised at India's mobilization following the attack on the Indian Parliament?

Further, as we've said many times, the idea of Cold Start borrows - whether the Indians know this or not - from Soviet offensive doctrine as refined for Central Europe in the 1970s and 1980s. Attack with minimum warning time (the refinement), and attack across multiple axes so that the enemy does not know which are the real axes, so the enemy sends in his reserves to counter Axis A, only to find Axis B is the real one.

Okay, people, a few reality checks. The Soviets could do this - as they did very well in the latter stages of World War II - because they had a whacking great superiority in divisions and in the strength of their divisions. Like five-to-one, often more. Where does the Indian Army envisage this kind of superiority vis-a-vis Pakistan?

Second, the Soviets used a tactic the Indian Army cannot duplicate - or any army. They reinforced only success. The division that was failing had its assets taken away to reinforce the one that was succeeding, and too heck with the failing division, no one cared if they got overrun and finished off because after it all evened out, the Soviets would be deep inside enemy territory with the axes that succeeded.

Moreover, the Soviets mechanized their entire army so that it could advance rapidly. Only one-third of India's plains forces are mechanized, and a lot of that is with the strike reserves.

So India's idea was ( we say was because Editor pronounces Cold Start - well, Cold as in Dead) was force Pakistan to commit its strike reserves against the 8 Cold start axes of thrust, and then make the real offensive with India's three strike corps, which Pakistan would have nothing to counter with.

Frankly, we always thought that a concept for losers, but anyway. So what Pakistan did, despite is lack of resources, was to create armored/mechanized reserves for its four holding corps. They'll take care of the Indian axes of advance, still keeping their strike corps in reserve.

In other words, its back to the status quo ante. Well, actually no, because now Pakistan has (raised or under raising) four more divisions and India has to counter that. So its worse than status quo ante.

Here's our advice to the Indians - read what Indian Field Manekshaw told Mrs. Indira Gandhi when she wanted a lightning strike against East Pakistan. For your convenience, the quote is included in a letter written to us. There are no short cuts. The only way a war with Pakistan can be won is by the old-fashioned knock-down/drag-out strategy. It could take as little as 30-days, but it would be foolish to plan for less than 90-days.

Sachin
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 05 May 2010 13:24

ASPuar wrote:If it does dismiss him, wait for another 'sambha' type disaster to ensue, with the matter dragging on in courts forever.

What chances are there that he can take this case with the Armed Forces Tribunal which is like an appellate courts when it comes to Courts Martial?

Kailash
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Kailash » 05 May 2010 14:22

Indian Army Seeks Loitering Missiles

NEW DELHI - The Indian Army wants to equip its troops with missiles that can loiter over a target for 30 minutes, and it sent a global request for information (RfI) in March, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the parliament here in a written response.

The loitering missile would be able to send critical data on enemy installations and later self-destruct on the target.

In the RfI, the Defence Ministry has sought details from the vendors on the missile's cruising speed, the maximum range at which it can engage a target, its loitering time, the range of its data link, its accuracy, ability to attack from the top, and if it can abort after locking onto a target and be redesignated to a new target.

After receipt of the RfI, a formal request for proposals will be issued and the missiles are likely to be procured by the end of 2011, a Defence Ministry official said.

Singha
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 May 2010 14:25

is there any such bomber drone anywhere except harop ? apparently there are few from MBDA and germany

http://defense-update.com/products/l/LMCD.htm


ParGha
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ParGha » 05 May 2010 19:33

LI regiments can be tasked for any role - in WWII itself I can recollect one MLI bttn tasked for anti-tank role, SLI detachments were used for HMG etc. Up until the Mech Inf Regt was setup most regiments had a mech battn, including LI and Rifles. So today, as a proper noun, it is just a historic title with only ceremonial significance.

And they historically carried MORE ammo than regular infantry, because they first engaged in skirmish order and then fell back to fighting lines.

ParGha
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ParGha » 05 May 2010 19:41


Why not simply use armed drones? They do everything this does, plus they are reusable (most components) and recoverable (if mission is canceled).
Last edited by ParGha on 05 May 2010 23:22, edited 1 time in total.


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