LCA news and discussion

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 08:01

The moment these DDM journalists arrive at the course, the course instructor should yell at them, make them do 50 pushups on the trot, and then make them crawl them treches in mud and crap.

That'll drive some sense and respect into these civvies.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 16 Jul 2009 17:25

SanjibGhosh wrote:Full-fledged IAF fighter base likely in Kayathar

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/16/stories ... 421800.htm

That, however, will soon change in view of the evolving geopolitical situation and the increasing strategic pertinence of the peninsula. “Sulur, to begin with, is going to be the country’s first Tejas LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) base and will be operational by the end of next year or the beginning of 2011. Despite hiccups pertaining to its engine, the aircraft should be a very potent platform,” the Air Marshal said.

I was scratching my head thinking as to why are Tejas required down south when I saw the place Kayathar on the google maps. it then hit me that there are two new reactors coming up near Kanyakumari and ofcourse Kalapakkam and Chennai City are also not very far. I am sure the LTTE bombing last year of Srilankan airports must have made the IAF wake up to this threat and hence the base.

But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?

vina · Post by **vina** » 16 Jul 2009 17:40

But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?

That is the "undefended" part of India as of now , because only Unkil could possibly mount an offensive from that direction. However, if you want to project power in the Indian ocean, you need the air assets in the deep south. What the Su 30 MKI squadron in Andamans is to sea control in S.E Asia, the fighter squadrons in TN will be to the entire southern part of the peninsula from Southern Arabian sea to the middle of Bay of Bengal to Northern portion of Indian ocean. Will give the IN the shore based air cover to operate effectively under a protective umbrella.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 16 Jul 2009 18:42

vina wrote:
But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?
That is the "undefended" part of India as of now , because only Unkil could possibly mount an offensive from that direction. However, if you want to project power in the Indian ocean, you need the air assets in the deep south. What the Su 30 MKI squadron in Andamans is to sea control in S.E Asia, the fighter squadrons in TN will be to the entire southern part of the peninsula from Southern Arabian sea to the middle of Bay of Bengal to Northern portion of Indian ocean. Will give the IN the shore based air cover to operate effectively under a protective umbrella.

Come on guys! How can you forget the route China takes to reach Africa/Gulf? How can you forget to defend our backside while we keep beefing up our defence on our NE border?

IIRC, our planes have always spied on Chinki littoral vessels operating from the peninsula. So its imperative to have a strong AF presence there.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 21:57

Any badmashi by china in the NE or J&K and chinese shipping will get bombed in the Indian ocean. This is , will remain china's soft under belly. No amount of string of pearls is going to protect chinese trade from this.

This is merely Chankyan koot niti out classing tsu tsu.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 17 Jul 2009 00:26

VikB wrote: I was scratching my head thinking as to why are Tejas required down south when I saw the place Kayathar on the google maps. it then hit me that there are two new reactors coming up near Kanyakumari and ofcourse Kalapakkam and Chennai City are also not very far. I am sure the LTTE bombing last year of Srilankan airports must have made the IAF wake up to this threat and hence the base.

But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?

Indian Ocean Region... they will base LCAs and MKIs at these places to help control the SLOCs... part of our new assertive posture.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 17 Jul 2009 01:36

Indian Engine RFP Expected This Week
The long-awaited request for proposals (RFP) to provide 99-125 engines for the Indian Air Force’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is expected to be released this week.

Proposals for the two candidate engines — GE’s F414 and Eurojet’s EJ200 — will be due by Oct. 12 if the RFP is released on July 17.

In October 2007, Eurojet signed a nondisclosure agreement with the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which is developing the LCA and evaluating alternatives to the GE F404 engine powering the Tejas prototypes and initial production aircraft.

A senior official of Eurojet says it will transfer data under the agreement to India’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), which is responsible for developing the indigenous Kaveri engine planned for the LCA.

“We have interest in doing more with GTRE. However, we shall wait for milestones to be reached,” an official says. “Once you have a ticket to ride….synergies [with other projects] are quite natural, though the customer might think different.”

With severe delays to the Kaveri program and performance limitations with the initial LCA, the Indian air force is keen to push ahead with an off-the-shelf engine acquisition. Former air force chief Fali Homi Major said early this year: “We need five squadrons of the Mk2 LCAs. When integrated with the new engines, the LCA Mk2 should fly in 2013.”

The GE414 powers the Boeing F/A-18E/F and Saab Gripen NG, while the EJ200 powers the Eurofighter Typhoon. All three aircraft are contenders in India’s 126-aircraft multirole fighter competition now under way.

“Our engine needs minimum changes and will not delay the LCA,” the Eurojet official said.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... his%20Week

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 17 Jul 2009 03:54

good news..finally some action on that front..if a decision is made in early 2010, then it would mean that the engine choice could (although I'm quite sure its not even a criteria for flight and technical evaluation) at least have a very slight bearing on the final choice for the MRCA, due to engine commonality.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 17 Jul 2009 17:27

Several reasons for having a full-fledged airbase down south. To name a few
1. It is better to operationalise a new asset (LCA) away from prying eyes. You could argue that most other bases must be well covered by interested parties.
2. It takes a long-time to build up airbases to full capability. China is moving towards naval air assets. Maybe in 10 years time they'll be able to reach upto Indian Ocean. It is better for us to be prepared for such eventualities.
3. We talk of India's strategic depth as compared to Pak. But unless that depth is available to use then it is pointless.
4. As US has increased focus on Afganistan, the air traffic has increased considerably from Diego Garcia. This needs to be monitored

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 17 Jul 2009 17:42

k prasad wrote:
VikB wrote: I was scratching my head thinking as to why are Tejas required down south when I saw the place Kayathar on the google maps. it then hit me that there are two new reactors coming up near Kanyakumari and ofcourse Kalapakkam and Chennai City are also not very far. I am sure the LTTE bombing last year of Srilankan airports must have made the IAF wake up to this threat and hence the base.

But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?
Indian Ocean Region... they will base LCAs and MKIs at these places to help control the SLOCs... part of our new assertive posture.

I think I didnt articulate myself well. Ofcourse we need the southern bases for control on IOR area. However, having two bases for LCA was what set me thinking. Given the role of LCA as primarily Air Defence/Point Defence duty, how many do we need down south? Won't the longer leg Su30 be more appropriate? Please dont jump on me for suggesting anything about the range of LCA. I well remember that we have refuelling capability and availability of external fuel pods, etc. but will we really use LCA to take out naval assets on sea? There are hardly any land targets except Sri Lanka around. I remember someone beautifully explaining on this forum on the differences between 'look down' radars for surface terrain being vastly different from radars for the oceans. Maybe it is time to see what area gets covered by this aircraft once positioned at the new bases.

Plus, the LCA is being produced in limited numbers ( 40 if I remember the figure correct). If we use them at Southern bases, that means we will continue to rely on Mig 21s for the North West and East area for many more years to area. Is it a conscious decision to first try the new machine in relatively 'less heavy' areas?

Just a few rumblings of my mind.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 17 Jul 2009 17:44

AFS Sulur will be to the Tejas what Pune is to Flanker MKI.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Jul 2009 18:06

VikB wrote:
k prasad wrote: quote="VikB"
I was scratching my head thinking as to why are Tejas required down south when I saw the place Kayathar on the google maps. it then hit me that there are two new reactors coming up near Kanyakumari and ofcourse Kalapakkam and Chennai City are also not very far. I am sure the LTTE bombing last year of Srilankan airports must have made the IAF wake up to this threat and hence the base.

But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?
Indian Ocean Region... they will base LCAs and MKIs at these places to help control the SLOCs... part of our new assertive posture. /quote

I think I didnt articulate myself well. Ofcourse we need the southern bases for control on IOR area. However, having two bases for LCA was what set me thinking. Given the role of LCA as primarily Air Defence/Point Defence duty, how many do we need down south? Won't the longer leg Su30 be more appropriate? Please dont jump on me for suggesting anything about the range of LCA. I well remember that we have refuelling capability and availability of external fuel pods, etc. but will we really use LCA to take out naval assets on sea? There are hardly any land targets except Sri Lanka around. I remember someone beautifully explaining on this forum on the differences between 'look down' radars for surface terrain being vastly different from radars for the oceans. Maybe it is time to see what area gets covered by this aircraft once positioned at the new bases.

Plus, the LCA is being produced in limited numbers (124 if I remember the figure correct). If we use them at Southern bases, that means we will continue to rely on Mig 21s for the North West and East area for many more years to area. Is it a conscious decision to first try the new machine in relatively 'less heavy' areas?

Just a few rumblings of my mind.

VikB ji,

The stomach rumbles.
The mind rambles.

The Indian Navy has a very air large base at Arakkonam which is hardly 50 - 60 miles from Chennai and another at a location close to Rameshwaram. The Coast Guard air assets operate out of Chennai.

There are plenty of Naval and Coast Guard air and sea assets to interdict any targets at sea around the Tamilnadu coast.

What's so special about the LCA that with a single engine it's going to be operating extensively over the sea.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 17 Jul 2009 18:10

Although LCA was developed to retire Mig 21, but it was never meant to take interceptor role only.
With TVC Engine (If EJ) is selected, AESA radar (Israel / Indigenous), Weapons pylons increased in M2 version, next gen EW suite which DRDO is developing, it can be very effectively used as Air superiority / multi role aircraft.

Remember the payload of Tejas is more than 4000kg as against 4000 kg of Mig 27, 4540kg of sepecat Jaguar, Mirage 6300 Kgs
Range is also comparable - Tejas 3000Km (without refuel) Jaguar 3500Kms, Mig 27 2500 Kms and M2K - 3300 Kms

In air superiority context, No of pylons(In M2 version), range, types of missiles compares well with Mig 29

Also, with chinese policy to encircle India, we actually need to improve our defense infra there in south. Further, a host of defense establishment are located in southern India (HAL / ADA / SBC / Cochin shipyard / Nuclear sites etc), we need to have adequate infrastructure to rule out any emergency.

Just my 2 cents

-Nitin

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 17 Jul 2009 19:46

It may be a naive suggestion, but I think when naval version of Tejas is developed, then this airbase could be handy.
Aircrafts may take-off from this base and land on an air-carrier in sea - kind of dual use aircraft.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 17 Jul 2009 21:09

What is the possibility of exporting lca ?
We could easily turn a consortium with israelis and the 'engine maker'
to give a not too expensive 4th gen aircraft with less maintenance ,is light weight ,carrier operable, and with no strings attached.

One could easily see a huge market for not too expensive aircraft from a neutral country, to those nations who are trying to get dependable technology but could not get them because of sanctions or no seller factor, .These could be s.american, african, some asian countries

Maybe they wont have a aircraft carr. but still a lot of the countries are just potential markets , who are gearing up to phase out their soviet/american donor aircrafts and buy a new one

some of them could be, vietnam,malaysia,indonesia,nigeria, s.africa, iran*(lesser possibility or with no-israeli radars) ,algeria ,afghanistan, iraq, columbia,venezuela,panama,argentina,,brazil *.

Just a possibility ,that mod does not have any cost issue for increasing lca fleet ,.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Jul 2009 21:39

guarding IOR is probably a small part of the rationale for developing these bases. not every airbase is built with a potential adversary in mind.

think of USAF bases in continental US(excluding alaska). how many are maintained with a particular adversary in mind ? let me guess, none ?

moreover, it is always a good idea to develop excess infrastructure for redundancy, keeping the nuclear angle in mind. these bases would also be excellent for regular large exercises without worrying about pesky neighbour's opinions and the 'inter-na-zonal kommunity'.

bala · Post by **bala** » 20 Jul 2009 07:16

I recently saw a demo of a compact projector using Corning's green laser. (Blue and Red color lasers already exist). Microvision (Redmond, WA) codeveloped an Integrated Photonics Module with Corning (Corning, NY) green laser for projection-modules. The images are sharp and can be projected on to large screens. Heads up display modules using less power can use this module and already car manufacturers like GM/Delphi are showcasing this technology. The US Army is using the technology to project directly onto a eye wear glass for soldiers.

LCA can perhaps start using such technology for their HUD if they already haven't.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 20 Jul 2009 07:23

VikB wrote:But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any other reason for such strong fortification?

http://pakobserver.net/200907/01/Articles01.asp

Admiral Alfred T. Mahan (1840-1914) of the United States Navy highlighted strategic importance of the Indian Ocean in these words: “whoever attains maritime supremacy in the Indian Ocean would be a prominent player on the international scene". The Indian peninsula (i.e. the Deccan and below) juts 1,240 miles into the Indian Ocean. 50 per cent of the Indian Ocean basin lies within a 1,000 mile radius of India, a reality that has strategic implications.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 20 Jul 2009 07:31

> But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in > my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any
> other reason for such strong fortification?

The Indian peninsula is an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Indian Ocean. Something like Malta or Midway but better connected from the supply point of view.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jul 2009 08:15

Bishwa wrote:> But then Sulur and Thanjavur are also being prepared for LCA and Su30. Why do we need so many air assets down south? Three bases in > my view is quite a bit of resources. Even considering the value of Lakshwadeep emerging as an important defence asset , yet is there any
> other reason for such strong fortification?

The Indian peninsula is an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Indian Ocean. Something like Malta or Midway but better connected from the supply point of view.

In another thread, I was having a rant about "strategic bombing". Japan, it was said, could have been isolated by Naval power and defeated, but was instead defeated by strategic bombing with nukes.

Why did a heavier degree of conventional bombing on Vietnam, and similar bombing of Korea fail? The links of both these countries to the mainland (China) was a decisive factor. Supplies kept pouring in - something that proved impossible for Japan, an Island.

That is what makes the Indian peninsula an ideal place to ensure raksha (safety and security) of our pond. Three bases is nothing. China is said to be building a "string of pearls" bases around India. These will mean little if India can exert air dominance over them.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Jul 2009 08:41

The "String of pearls" has value ONLY when the local forces are used against India - first diplomatically, then otherwise. China does not have to do anything.

Any force used on these countries by India will result in a UN resolution of some sort.

It is best India removes these pearls ASAP. The cost later will be much less.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 20 Jul 2009 11:13

Rahul M wrote:guarding IOR is probably a small part of the rationale for developing these bases. not every airbase is built with a potential adversary in mind.

think of USAF bases in continental US(excluding alaska). how many are maintained with a particular adversary in mind ? let me guess, none ?

moreover, it is always a good idea to develop excess infrastructure for redundancy, keeping the nuclear angle in mind. these bases would also be excellent for regular large exercises without worrying about pesky neighbour's opinions and the 'inter-na-zonal kommunity'.

I recently saw a map of air bases in US and the sheer density of them on the mainland was mind boggling. I still cant figure out why they need so many air bases on the mainland. Maybe they are kind of reserves for the many bases that they have abroad. Also, I strongly believe that a lot of it has to do with their WW II fixation with producing humongous numbers which 'maybe' they have not been able to roll back. Is there any other country doing similar thing?

In our case , it is imperative to have many more bases down south - no doubts about that. Just that having Tejas there in two bases with its air interception role, led to my query.

I see now with a bit more filtering the reasons MIGHT be -
-as only two squadrons have been ordered then better to put the Tejas in new bases where anyway the infra is being built bottom-up.
- The area is close to Bangalore - the mother hub of the aircraft where all the allied industry are also located that are supplying critical technology/components. Will be important in the initial years of induction.
- IAF still does not see the current Tejas replacing Mig s in near future. The Tejas MKII might be different but by then MRCA will also be around.

"The stomach rumbles.
The mind rambles. "

Chetak ji, thanks for the correction though now I find the term 'rumblings of my mind' even more appropriate

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Jul 2009 11:31

^^^ The potent coverage of the Indian Ocean region comes from our setup in the Andaman Islands - its usefulness as a permanenet aircraft carrier to "lord over" the straits of Malacca as well as project power deep insode the "Far East" cannot be overemphasized..The Deccan is at best a sideshow as far as the IOR is concerned.

IMHO the reason for Sulur as the base for LCA (and now Thanjavur) is simply that the IAF still has no confidence that the LCA will meaningfully replace anything in its inventory operationally. Therefore it is basing the aircraft deep down south so that its operational evaluation and tactics development can proceed without getting in the way of anything else that is more "important" operationally. It also uses the LCA excuse to build up some infrastructure in the South, which otherwise would be difficult to justify to the bean counters in MoD!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2009 12:11

its inevitable that PRC will arm its ally with a ever increasing assortment of weapons in which the babar GLCM is only a start. its also inevitable PRC will have its own GPS sats in space to provide the guidance.

our current basing plan heavily oriented to keeping lots of planes within 250km of the border is very vulnerable to a mass strike that Pak/China can unleash without any warning of air movement simply with GLCM and SRBMs.

we need big bases in the deccan plateau which would be peacetime training and
permanent stations for the bulk of IAF and INs naval air arm, with units periodically
using the fwd bases for training and exercise but not permanently stationed.

with the departure of short legged Mig21, we will finally have a fully AAR qualified inventory should the need arise. and the Tejas/MRCA/M2k/su30 would have a decent range on drop tanks. the Jags would still need to be based a bit fwd.

we need a strong buildup of AEW, 3D radar and AAR assets to support this 'deep basing' imperative. it will no longer be possible for point defence jets to sit atop the potential targets, so we'd need more advance warning.

afaik onlee Pune, Bidar, Gwalior and Nagpur would qualify as major bases in central India. We need another 4 such bases in Khajuraho-Orchha, Chattisgarh,
Orissa, West bengal to provide a 'fallback option' should our bases in northern WB, Assam, Bihar come under severe and sustained attack - as they will.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Jul 2009 23:00

I still cant figure out why they (US) need so many air bases on the mainland.

Local politics. Many DefSecs have tried - and failed.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 21 Jul 2009 00:00

India seeks bids from GE and Eurojet to supply engine for Tejas
http://www.livemint.com/2009/07/2022090 ... E.html?h=B

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 21 Jul 2009 00:21

We are still awaiting bids

- All this while I was under the very incorrect impression that we were evaluating the proposals from both of them and looking at design modifications needed,

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Jul 2009 00:42

Is there an hurry?

Pakistan will adopt a Gandhian attitude. Tibet will rule China.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2009 00:45

VikB wrote:
Rahul M wrote: I recently saw a map of air bases in US and the sheer density of them on the mainland was mind boggling. I still cant figure out why they need so many air bases on the mainland. Maybe they are kind of reserves for the many bases that they have abroad. Also, I strongly believe that a lot of it has to do with their WW II fixation with producing humongous numbers which 'maybe' they have not been able to roll back. Is there any other country doing similar thing?

In our case , it is imperative to have many more bases down south - no doubts about that. Just that having Tejas there in two bases with its air interception role, led to my query.

"The stomach rumbles.
The mind rambles. "

Chetak ji, thanks for the correction though now I find the term 'rumblings of my mind' even more appropriate

Rumble right on VikB ji.

There is a slowly gathering storm of kashmir type proportions in the lakshadeep area. Many strange and jehadi type activities are taking place in these scenic environs with the placid Indian state standing and staring (shades of Wordsworth!)

These extra southern bases may well come in to be of some use.

Google the UK and continent as well. There are numereous active airbases there as well. The sheer numbers cannot simply be explained away as WWII remnants.

Somebody had posted earlier that the US and UK pilots had more hours because they flew longer bacause of holding patterns, delays in getting landing slots and what not.

A majority of military flying abroad takes place only from military airports. Many commercial airports will refuse military flights when busy.

Sandipan · Post by **Sandipan** » 21 Jul 2009 02:52

I don't agree with the opinion of some of the members that "LCA is not a potent aircraft, IAF does not have confidence in it, so it wants to hide it deep down south". LCA i think is the only aircraft ultimately to be there to used both by IAF and IN, apart from Mig 29K. IAF maybe trying to develop it as martime strike aircraft like Jaguar IM maybe and it can work in tandem with Naval LCA. my 2 cents

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 21 Jul 2009 18:10

Exclusive interview with P S Subramanyam of ADA on HAL Tejas

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 21 Jul 2009 18:29

Has PV-5 been painted in Airforce colors, like the model behind Subramanyam. Looks coole than single seater though!!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Jul 2009 18:50

The LCA's first sqd. being stationed at Sulur Coimbatore,is because of its proximity to B'lore,so that the aircraft can be tested in service as close as possible,where it can receive whatever support it requires from HAL easily.The terrain,close to the Western Ghats and Cochin also makes the location favourable for a variety of flying terrain,mountains,sea,etc. However,the aircraft is just too shortlegged to be a true defender of our airspace from here and that is why Tanjore and Trivandrum are being considered for the Su-30MKis,which will be able to scour the seas of the IOR from virtually the tip of India.The Chinese involvement in developing Sri Lanka's new port at Hambantota,which will give logistic support to PLAN assets in the future,need to be "sanitised" during a crisis.Chinese future carrier task forces will also make their forays into the IOR transiting from the Malacca Straits and the other Indonesian entrances into the IOR to the Gulf and Africa.Add to that the potential use of Trincomalee by an enenmy naval force and the importance of southern air bases becomes even more crucial.

The bases in the Andamans can be attacked by Chinese forces operating out of Burma and as we saw thanks to the tsunami,are vulnerable.We also do not have STOVL aircraft like the Harriers or JSF,which can operate from the islands without the need for large prepared conventional runways.These would be ideal for the Andamans and other island territories,where they could be easily hidden in the jungle.As a fallback if any of our bases in the islands are put out of operation,the land bases in the southern tip will be available for us to attack any enemy forces entering the IOR from the Far East or transiting to and from the Gulf/Pak in support of the IN's ops.In addition,one must not forget that Diego Garcia is also due south of the Indian landmass where a massive US force of B-2 stealth bombers,B-52s and even F-022 Raptors will be operating out of,assisted by a large naval force including carriers and nuclear subs.In any future conflict with Pak,the US might as it did in '71,try and come to the rescue of its rent boy and disrupt operations by the IN.

India was conquered by the Europeans not from any invasion from the north,but by the penetration of the south by their naval forces.The south is the soft underbelly of India and has been poorly protected all these years.With terrorism rampant,and we have seen the effect of the LTTE's Eelam wars on T'Nadu,affecting and influencing the politics of the south,in the future defending India from the south will be of equal perhaps of more importance than defending it from he north,where the Himalayan mountains make it difficult for our northern enemies.With the race to ensure energy security by the world's nations and most of that energy transiting the IOR from the Gulf,the geo-strategic importance of South India and Sri Lanka become critical to control of IOR energy shipping.

One need still underestimated by the IN and MOD is the ned for amphibious LRMP aircraft like those built by Beriev.These aircraft can conduct naval surveillance and ASW/strike operations from any patch of water apart from using runways on land.With just refuelling facilities at our minor ports and coastal bases,the aircraft can be operated from any part of the country and our iland teritories,especially the Andamans & Nicobar islands and Lakshadweep.Pawan hans has seen the light and is acquiring a few for the tourism industry,when will the IN see the light?

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 21 Jul 2009 20:08

Philip wrote:The LCA's first sqd. being stationed at Sulur Coimbatore,is because of its proximity to B'lore,so that the aircraft can be tested in service as close as possible,where it can receive whatever support it requires from HAL easily.The terrain,close to the Western Ghats and Cochin also makes the location favourable for a variety of flying terrain,mountains,sea,etc. However,the aircraft is just too shortlegged to be a true defender of our airspace from here and that is why Tanjore and Trivandrum are being considered for the Su-30MKis,which will be able to scour the seas of the IOR from virtually the tip of India.The Chinese involvement in developing Sri Lanka's new port at Hambantota,which will give logistic support to PLAN assets in the future,need to be "sanitised" during a crisis.Chinese future carrier task forces will also make their forays into the IOR transiting from the Malacca Straits and the other Indonesian entrances into the IOR to the Gulf and Africa.Add to that the potential use of Trincomalee by an enenmy naval force and the importance of southern air bases becomes even more crucial.

that is just your jingoism shouting aloud with no basis..

Real strategists/aviation gurus know that LCA is just to satisfy the jingoism of a few guys like you - that is the "only reason" why we have spent so many crores on this aircraft.. to satisy your fantasies.. IA has no use for it.. will never use it.. will not feel confident to use it in a war -- and that is the truth.. Thats why they have decided to base it in a place of no importance..

What use is LCA if it needs to be close to Bangalore for maintainence.. How will it fight close to western/northern borders?
What is the use of flying in the plains of deccan.. can it fly in the deserts or altitudes of north? It cant - thats why IAF is basing it out of Sulur..

It is plain clear that LCA is an useless aircraft on which we have wasted 25years.. LCA will never fly.. and when it flies it will never fly in IAF colors.. when it does that it will never enter squadron service.. when it does that it will only do in Sulur.. total waste..

Sarcasm alert -- sorry.. just could not resist vomiting the bile.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 21 Jul 2009 20:24

Hi
I just couldn't resist me to see LCA only to see its flight control system. The software which would give our pilot the comfort and control he wants. The same thing was shared by the Field marshal Mr. Rajkumar in his book(he remembers him saying to the american general that our flight control system was better to the F-16s). We have come half way in making the aircraft.It would be a good plane in the indian inventory.I read that HFmarut was even a agile fighter,But ameriks killed it to sabres(now they have started called bunders lightweights sabres) .I see the same think happening again.Hope somebody rescues this plane.In my opinion if we have done something to the Marut and kept it barely alive definitely we would have fighter of decent nature.
I have no experience in aerospace to comment.but my 2 cents.Just give some credits to those guys who have done something.I had a experience of talking to Cmd.balaji.The confidence and energy he had was amazing.
The mission control computer which runs the rambha is still indian(If somebody says it came out vacuum i have no argument).If nobody wants why the hell these IAF guys testing it (maybe they have little work to do)

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 21 Jul 2009 20:32

^^ Your post is a little confusing. Are you comparing the LCA to the Marut or the Sabre? AFAIK the Marut was mainly used in the ground attack role.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 21 Jul 2009 20:33

prabhug wrote:Hi
I just couldn't resist me to see LCA only to see its flight control system. The software which would give our pilot the comfort he wants. The same thing was shared by the Field marshal Mr. Rajkumar in his book(he remembers him saying to the american general that our flight control system was better to the F-16s). We have come half way in making the aircraft.It would be a good plane in the indian inventory.I read that HFmarut was even a agile fighter,But ameriks killed it to sabres(now they have started called bunders lightweights sabres) .I see the same think happening again.Hope somebody rescues this plane.
I have no experience in aerospace to comment.but my 2 cents.Just give some credits to those guys who have done something.I had a experience of talking to Cmd.balaji.The confidence and energy he had was amazing .

Cheers

Prabhu.G

Were you in the large group of people talking to Cmdr.Balaji at AI09?

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 21 Jul 2009 20:37

My opinion was that to have decent aircraft
the main think would be it's aerostructures,flight control system,other avionics.Once we master this, making planes to specialized roles would be easier.I meant Keeping the R&D investment is more important than saying it's just another trash.i read that HFMarut had same issue of engine(which was underpowered).It was dead for the same reason. Then after 30 years we started all again.

No i met Cmd.balaji at the ADA stall.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 21 Jul 2009 20:39

prabhug wrote: trash.No i just met Cmd.balaji at the ADA stall.

I meant -- were there a large group of people talking to him at that time? A little while later Capt. Moulankar joined?

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 21 Jul 2009 20:44

No i just had chat when he was there at the stall.