MRCA News and Discussion

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rohiths
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby rohiths » 21 Jul 2009 20:25

I have a strong feeling that F-16 will win given the equating of Pakistan and India.
Sorry folks. I have lost whatever little respect I had for MMS.
MRCA decision ultimately will be a very dumb decision which will not have to do anything with Indian defence requirements. Then you will have some objections about corruption and an unending investigation and you will not have any plane in the end :(( :(( :((

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 21 Jul 2009 20:35

Lets see.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby abhiti » 21 Jul 2009 20:54

rohiths wrote:Then you will have some objections about corruption and an unending investigation and you will not have any plane in the end :(( :(( :((


I agree with rest of your post but I think this will not be the case. Have you ever seen a Russian firm under investigation for corruption? Why not? It will be the same with American firms.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Anthony Hines » 21 Jul 2009 21:02

I thought the EUMA was agreed upon - not signed. Maybe I'm mistaken
Last edited by Gerard on 21 Jul 2009 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: username changed to conform with forum guidelines

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SanjibGhosh » 21 Jul 2009 21:23

3. MRCA contract might go to the F-18, I hope not hoping that the Typhoon will pull through. For some reason ppl on this board are convinced that sinces the EUMA that the F-18 is the clear winner. The EUMA needed to be signed so the P-8I and C-130J could be delivered. India needs the P-8I badly. I don't know about the TOT and manufacturing rights of A2G weapons, that would cost a lot of money and I don't know if India plans on buying enough for this idea to be feasible.


I agree. To me, agreeing to US term and condition will reduce the chance of F-16/F-18. It might happen that in future India would not buy any sensitive weapons from US if their physical verification cause a threat to national security. This agreement was urgently need for P-8I and C-130J.

I think the adamant attitude of US on EUMA will cause damage their chance to win it.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 21 Jul 2009 21:48

It is only part of the "agreement" that is an issue - that too depending on the item being purchased.

So, for a Weapon Locating Radar - the "agreement (per India) should be one and for a VVIP air craft it should be another and for a "F-1X" it should be a third.

What India has BEEN suggesting is that there should be a core or a generic "agreement" - one that is common to ALL purchases and then depending on the item being purchased India would like to add an addendum. So, for the Weapon Locating Radar addendum (as an example) India would prefer that no US personnel would visit the border area for sure and the details from there on need to be worked out. They have already worked out the agreement for the VVIP - which could be split into the generic agreement + one specific for the VVIP. Similarly for the MRCA they can work out an "addendum" and attach it to the "generic" "agreement".

That I think is the Indian argument.

But like someone else stated (K Prasad?) that such changes need US Congressional approval.

However, no matter what, the situation IMHO is a win-win for both sides - so far. They have resorted to kicking the can it seems - typical political solution.

What is of great interest to India is that India did send DM "out-of-town" - unlike the climate minister (who confronted Clinton head on - and made a big splash on FT) (both did actually). The person who is supposed to sign they send out. The person who is not supposed to sign did not sign and both sides made it appear as thought every this is copacetic. 8)

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 22 Jul 2009 02:07

For anyone the best condition would be to develop homegrown weapon system, there are unlimited benefits from it,.
End user or any other agreement aren't entirely bad ,they can not effect the security unless babu-politician want it to,.
The issue is raised because current scenario shows the least welcome part of it , that is a govt with people who have very little self respect and concern for India are weak and could turn the tide against us, as it has always happen in our history,.
For us it will be better to attach some strings in the agreement if Usa ever wants to sell some technology which they think that only they can make in the whole World,.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jul 2009 03:26

For anyone the best condition would be to develop homegrown weapon system, there are unlimited benefits from it


Develop = life cycle? Which country?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 22 Jul 2009 10:24

I have a strong feeling that F-16 will win given the equating of Pakistan and India.

I hope your leaders don't choose the F-16 its the second worst choice ahead of the Mig-35. Seriously Typhoon Rafale or Super Hornet pick one! They're the only logical choices, but knowing that its india it will probably be a competition between the Super Hornet or Rafale vs the Grippen/Mig-35. The other contender having no chance of winning. I would love to see final choice come down to Typhoon vs Rafale! That would be interesting to see who wins!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 22 Jul 2009 14:10

The argument that the EUM signed does not mean that the US will have access to our "bases" etc.,but that the eqpt. can be taken out and shown at some remote spot,is specious and ridiculous and is meant to fool us.How on earth can an AESA radar and accompanying integral eqpt. be removed flown elsewhere,refitted without considerable loss of capability to the IAF.With so many pieces of eqpt.,will we then have a permament "shuttle service " of US made eqpt. going back and forth from our aircraft and bases.Or will we be flying all our aircraft back and forth at whose expense?! This is an insane argument that "India has won" over the US in this matter.We've dropped our pants and are to be be buggered in style if we buy US.Secondly,if we give in to the US,other nations can demand similar agreements which will make us the laughing stock of the world.

As I've described before,the MRCA deal is a case of the MOD/GOI "not being able to see the wood for the trees",that is the actual masterplanning for the IAF's requirements taking into account all the aircraft in the inventory,which are being upgraded,adding/uopgrading more of the same that are contemporary and focussing upon the cutting edge projects on hand (LCA ,upgraded SU-30MKI plans where all the existing SU-30s will be upgraded to 4+ gen. in the near future,two aircraft reportedly being sent for integration with Brahmos,and the 5th-gen fighter),which are going to be the mainstay of the IAF in the future.Buying a new vintage type of US make,where virtually no one is buying anymore (except Oz for an interim nature) would be truly cretinous and a sheer waste of money.

The cost-effective and common-sense approach would be to build more upgraded Jags,acquire more SU-30MKIs and upgraded MIG-29/35s ,a combined total of around 160-200 of the types,and with the money saved invest in the LCA MK-2 ,5th-gen fighter and UCAV development.Once the LCA is perfected,work can then start on an indigenous MCA if the need is felt to develop such a manned aircraft to replace the numerous types in service being upgraded.Buying a new MMRCA that is alien to the IAF would be putting a square peg in the IAF's roundel.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 22 Jul 2009 15:22

The argument that the EUM signed does not mean that the US will have access to our "bases" etc.


ONCE AGAIN government is fooling the people and the loksabha with silly statements .EUM means US inspectors will visit our bases period. No way you can take 200 odd F-18 to kolkata for end use verification and then return to ambala pune etc.

Russians never put in such clauses -so this may be the final nail in the coffin of F18/16

welcome Mig 35 - Shankarosky

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Shankar » 22 Jul 2009 15:28

------- snip ------------
Last edited by JaiS on 22 Jul 2009 17:55, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Shankar, you've been here long enough, post news with links, or cut it out ...

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby nrshah » 22 Jul 2009 17:59

Rediff news says End user agreement not signed



Link is
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/ ... eement.htm

-Nitin

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jul 2009 19:00

How on earth can an AESA radar and accompanying integral eqpt. be removed flown elsewhere,refitted without considerable loss of capability to the IAF


:scratch-head:

The entire F-16 or F-18 can be flown to some place? Why would ANYONE remove the AESA? Unless of course India decides to buy the Grippen - for instance - and insists on a US AESA. Yes, in that case we can agree that will be a headache - 126 times.

Does anyone know what the deal is with the locatring radars from raytheon? Does the US send someone to the LoC to check it out? Or would google-maps or US sats do?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby SanjibGhosh » 22 Jul 2009 20:08

Not sure why they are so happy .... I don't see any chance for f16/f18 ....

Boeing, Lockheed hail US-India defence deal

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... xNZnBYiPLg

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Andrew DeCristofaro » 22 Jul 2009 20:15

SanjibGhosh wrote:Not sure why they are so happy .... I don't see any chance for f16/f18 ....

Boeing, Lockheed hail US-India defence deal

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... xNZnBYiPLg

let them hail ,its going to be a delta wing aircraft.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jul 2009 21:03

let them hail ,its going to be a delta wing aircraft.


The F-18 is NOT a delta AD.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Jul 2009 21:37

So does the F22 decision make one of the majors at risk of being inthe a/c business?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Anthony Hines » 22 Jul 2009 22:42

Given that both the F22 and F35 are made by LM, I see little impact IMHO, if any. Jobs in several states are at stake and hence the fight. Historically, F22 may be viewed as a logical successor to F15. Question is : How many times did the F15 fight in a real battle versus the number of times either F16 or F18 have seen combat. Ultimately, the number of F35s will be ramped up to more than compensate for losses sustained in the F22 order curtailment.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jul 2009 23:17

So does the F22 decision make one of the majors at risk of being inthe a/c business?


$1.75 Billion dollars? Not even a leaf on a peanut plant.

The non-AC related software is TonS of time more than that.

And, USAF "lost" 7 F-22s!!!!!!

The hurt -for sure - is on the employment.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Vinito » 23 Jul 2009 00:17

Anthony Hines wrote:Given that both the F22 and F35 are made by LM, I see little impact IMHO, if any. Jobs in several states are at stake and hence the fight. Historically, F22 may be viewed as a logical successor to F15. Question is : How many times did the F15 fight in a real battle versus the number of times either F16 or F18 have seen combat. Ultimately, the number of F35s will be ramped up to more than compensate for losses sustained in the F22 order curtailment.


The F-15 has been involved in a number of war scenarios. To begin with, Israeli F-15's have downed Mig fighters from the Egyptian and Syrian forces.

Apart from the interceptor role the F-15E strike eagle has also played a key role in dropping bombs during the Gulf War and also the recent "US War on TError". Although we will never know the number of sorties it carried out compared to the F-16 & F-18 it was nevertheless a key player in the ground attack role.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Andrew DeCristofaro » 23 Jul 2009 01:22

f15 has stable aerodynamic configuration. and if one has to opt among
f15/18,rafale,typhoon for air force he will always select f15 over rafale
typhoon and f18

f16 over f18.

f15 is better than both rafale and typhoon in all aspects and also longer range on internal fuel.

and if an air force has to select a lightweight fighter they will select f16 over f18 because f18 costing as much 80-85% of f15e,so its better to procure either f15 or cheaper f16

rafale, typhoon,f16/18e don't carry gbu28 only f15 does,

compare this with

eurofighter
http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Ima ... -hours.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/ph ... loaded.jpg

http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/eurofight ... aveway.jpg

all in all eurofighter able to carry 6 230kg paveway4 LGB or 4 HARM or 2 storm shadow
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now rafale

http://pacdg.free.fr/pages/missions/raf ... lte%20(web).jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... C04186.JPG

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/pi ... ureid=1091

all in all rafale able to carry just 6 230kg paveway2 LGB or two apaches or 2-3 AASM or 2-3 exocets

with

f15e
http://pds12.egloos.com/pds/200810/14/2 ... 05c268.jpg
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 947169.jpg
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 953839.jpg
http://www.deagel.com/library1/viewer.a ... 6112700369

now looking at the price and capabilities of rafale,typhoon,f18e compared to f15e one will definitely shift towards f15e or for lighter aircraft one will buy f16 because its cheaper.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 23 Jul 2009 05:59

I hope that the F-15 can carry more ordinance than the Typhoon or Rafale! It is a larger aircraft! The Typhoon was never intended to be a bomb truck like the Super Hornet and the F-15 are. I was always surprised the US never fielded the F-15 for this competition. I know its a heavy class fighter but it would have boosted inida's A2G capabilities.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 23 Jul 2009 07:15

b_patel wrote:I hope that the F-15 can carry more ordinance than the Typhoon or Rafale! It is a larger aircraft! The Typhoon was never intended to be a bomb truck like the Super Hornet and the F-15 are. I was always surprised the US never fielded the F-15 for this competition. I know its a heavy class fighter but it would have boosted inida's A2G capabilities.



The F-15 was never designed as a bomb truck. It started off with a primary air superiority role and a secondary strike capability.

Why do you think a "bomb truck" would be useful BTW as compared to a stealthy, smart moltirole aircraft? What is it that makes people slobber after "bomb trucks"?

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 23 Jul 2009 07:37

The F-15 was never designed as a bomb truck. It started off with a primary air superiority role and a secondary strike capability.

I was referencing the F-15E and later derivatives (F-15K, F-15SG etc) I believe that's what crisifaro was referencing aswell The F-15E is designed as a long range bomb truck and its damn good at it!!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Shameek » 23 Jul 2009 08:40

^^ I would not call the F-15E just a bomb truck. It is more of a multirole deep penetration strike aircraft. It has not lost its air-to-air prowess.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kuldipchager » 23 Jul 2009 09:36

Why we are talking about F 15.We have su 30 which is way better to F 15.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby andy B » 23 Jul 2009 09:42

Errrr.... :-? Why are we even discussing ze F-15 we have a very very capable bomb truck that can do deep penetration strikes while defending itself during ingress and egress and the last time I checked we ordered a whole 230 of these babies!

So lets keep the discussion on the available final candidates as it is this thread is a bit of a joke given most of the stuff discussed is hoo-laa-laa due to lack of meaty developments as of yet hopefully that'll improve soon enough.

JMT :)

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Jul 2009 11:22

Some interesting news which could affect the MMRCA contest(Courtesy Flight Intl. 14-20 July '09).

1."Sorry Bob,No",said Air Marshal Mark Binskin to Bob Gower,Boeing's VP on buying more additonal F-18F SHs for the Oz air force.Due to weight problems,the JSF is being delayed,but the Oz air force would rather wait for the delayed JSF than buy more magnificent upgraded F-18F SH's,of that excellent vintage from the '70s!


2.The IAF is to double the SU-30MKI fleet by 2015 (Hurrah!).We have around 100 SU-30MKIs at the moment,but whether all the extra ones will be built at home is unclear,as the usual delays in our aircraft production takes its time and toll on older aircraft in the inventory,leading to crashes especially of older Soviet era aircraft. This is a very welcome decision.One wonders however whether the IAF is hedging its bets with the MMRCA deal as the competition for this will be intense with enormous pressure being brought to bear from the US,Russia and the EU nations and might also suffer decision delays,since the aircraft is meant to also be an "interim" acquisition to keep numbers healthy.

3.The US has banned the Israelis from selling their AESA radar for the Gripen! This is to scuttle the chances of the very cost-effective Gripen from winning the contest,because even if it doesn't,it "will make India force the US manufacturers to lower their prices said a source"! Now this will have a serious effect on the Gripen's chances,as if the US has such influence over a foreign Israeli radar for a Swedish aircraft,it will be able to interfere much later if and when the aircraft is in IAF service,stopping spares,etc. in any crisis with its bum-chum Pak.The Gripen will therefore be offered with a "Vixen 1000E/ES05 AESA radar supplied by the Finmecannica co. Selex-Galileo".

This will also force the Israelis to now offer their AESA radar to the Russians for the MIG-35,if they want a substantial piece of the massive MMRCA pie which could be around 200 aircraft.Not for the first time too,as the SU-30MKI has Israeli inputs in it.In fact,the Russians would be very happy to win the contest with an Israeli AESA radar,as it would mean India keeping both the Russians and Israeli's happy.In addition,if the radar being offered is the same or a variant of that being selected for the LCA,it would be a most judicious decision,bringing down cost significantly all round.Watch the Russo-Israeli lobby carefully on this one.

4.Boeing has unveiled its "6th-gen" concept to replace the F-18SH by 2025.The aircraft features a blended wing without a tail,with a cockpit,which could be manned or unmanned if desired.The USN revealed last year that it wanted a manned/unmanned F/AXX for subsnic cruising speed and a "50hr" endurance.Grumman-Northrop have also proposed their X-47 UCAV selected by the navy for the same programme.

So within another 15 years,the US will start retiring their F-18s.

5.(7-15 July issue) Pak launches the assembly of the JF-17 to fly by the year end.About a dozen have arrived from China so far.It hopes to buy 150-300 of the type which will replace all the older Chinese and Mirage variants in service.It is also looking for a European alternative (French Snecma M-53-P2) engine to replace the Russian Klimov RD -33 turbofan,one thinks this is because Russia might not deliver the goods later if requested by India,whcih would cripple the project.

One looks forward to JF-17 vs LCA/MMRCA comparisons and contests in the future.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 23 Jul 2009 11:57

It seems to be the F18 if some people have their way and GE engines for the L C A . Now lets ponder over this possibility and the American end user verification by their 'Tigers' .. !? .. where is India going .. it will be the most shameless bartering away of 'freedom' whatever it is.I thought the whole purpose of buying arms and weaponry is to protect sovereign interests and safeguarding the nations future and look whats happening here

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 23 Jul 2009 12:03

Pak launches the assembly of the JF-17 to fly by the year end.About a dozen have arrived from China so far.It hopes to buy 150-300 of the type which will replace all the older Chinese and Mirage variants in service.It is also looking for a European alternative (French Snecma M-53-P2) engine to replace the Russian Klimov RD -33 turbofan,one thinks this is because Russia might not deliver the goods later if requested by India,which would cripple the project.

300 JF-17 hahaha with what money are they going to buy 300 of them? I doubt China would provide soft loans for that many planes. Also, in other forum posters are quick to say that the Snecma engine is an alternative to the Russian one but i doubt that the French engine would fit that easily. I imagine that there would be structural changes involved, which would delay that batch of the JF-17. Also some ppl talk about a Block 2 version of that plane with western avionics, missiles, Aesa (what Aesa would be offered, most likely some chinese one) , etc. but i think most people fail to realize that Pakistan lacks the facilities to test/integrate all of these items, no western company is stupid enough to let happen in china so it would have to be done in some European country (France, UK, Italy) which is going to be expensive$$. The fighter is nothing more than a cheap stop-gap measure.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby b_patel » 23 Jul 2009 12:08

It seems to be the F18 if some people have their way and GE engines for the L C A .

But EADS is more likely to offer more TOT with their engine than the GE F414. They are also offering a TVC version of the engine if India desires it. They are doing the consultancy work on the LCA right now, so that might give them an edge, maybe! I think the engine choice for the LCA will put either the Typhoon or the SH as the front runner of the competition. Also with the Typhoon winning India would become a full partner in the Consortium and would have a say in future Tranche upgrades (weapons, engines, avionics etc). Plus like Dassault, EADS is desperate for this order; winning this competition might save the Eurofighter considering how many production cuts have been made.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Jul 2009 12:13

Uncle Sam and the Middle Kingdom will see that their bum-chum,"all-weather friend ",does not disintegrate and dissolve into history's dustbin...for as long as it can be prevented.They continue to fund the failed state,the US afearing a takeover of Pak's nukes by the ungodly.Last night,the BBC showed a poor ordinary Paki youth in Faridkot (reeling without power for industries and food shortages),shriek,"Pakistan is feenished,feenished".So while the end is inevitable,for some time,the military will be able to afford their toys at the expense of the suffering population.It is only when the people come out onto the streets and start a people's revolution,consigning the ruling elite to the flames,will the collapse of the Paki military take place.If the Paki military continue to try and keep competing with India militarily,they truly will be "feenished,feenished"!

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 23 Jul 2009 12:16

All that is true with the European consortium offering one of the best and most comprehensive industrial offset packages , the other being Gripen NG.But what we can not factor in is the political decision making process .. all about give and take .. dont think much about 'taking' ability with the congress govt and the power behind the throne ( some American special emissary has already met with the madam )

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby GeorgeWelch » 23 Jul 2009 13:13

Philip wrote:1."Sorry Bob,No",said Air Marshal Mark Binskin to Bob Gower,Boeing's VP on buying more additonal F-18F SHs for the Oz air force.


The need for the SH for Australia was driven by the gap between the retirement of the F-111 and the arrival of the F-35.

If 24 SHs are deemed adequate capability to fill that gap, it doesn't really matter how long the gap is (within reason).

Philip wrote:F-18F SH's,of that excellent vintage from the '70s!


'90s

Philip wrote:2.The IAF is to double the SU-30MKI fleet by 2015


The 230 number is ancient news and is only marginally different from the original plan.

The original plan was 50 from Russia + 140 from HAL (190 total)

Then a supplemental buy of 40 from Russia was added in 2007 (230 total)

(This is as close as I have been able to pull together from scattered news reports.)

Philip wrote:3.The US has banned the Israelis from selling their AESA radar for the Gripen!


1. The Israeli radar was never planned for Gripen.
2. The French blocked Thales from selling AESA for the Gripen-NG AFTER it had been selected and development work was underway.

Philip wrote:This will also force the Israelis to now offer their AESA radar to the Russians for the MIG-35


That makes no sense. Why would the US block AESA to the Gripen but not the MiG-35?
Either:
1. They didn't block it for the Gripen
2. They will block it for the MiG-35

Take your pick.

Philip wrote:4.Boeing has unveiled its "6th-gen" concept to replace the F-18SH by 2025.


Boeing can dream all they want ;)

The F-35 isn't planned to reach IOC with the USN until 2015, and the JSF development contract was signed in 1996, a gap of 19 years.

The notional FA/XX program isn't even to launch until 2012, and if they go with the unmanned option as expected, there will be serious development issues. Unmanned carrier landings, unmanned aerial refueling, unmanned AERIAL COMBAT. These are all very risky technologies and to expect it to proceed faster than the F-35 is a joke.

Philip wrote:So within another 15 years,the US will start retiring their F-18s.


The F-18s will actually be before then.

As for the SH, yes in 15 years the oldest ones will be 27 years old.
Also in 15 years, the oldest:
EF will be 21 years old
Rafale will be 24 years old

USN SH procurement is currently scheduled to run through 2012. If those planes last 25 years, the SH will be in service through 2037.

Philip wrote:One looks forward to JF-17 vs LCA/MMRCA comparisons and contests in the future.


Here's to hoping they remain paper competitions.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Jul 2009 15:59

India is most probably acquiring an Israeli AESA radar EL 2032/2052 for the LCA.It does not need the approval of the US for it whatsoever,neither does Israel.Therefore,by the same yardstick the US cannot stop the Israelis from selling India an AESA radar which India might use on the MIG-35 if it so desires.It did not/could not stop Israel from selling India eqpt. which is aboard the Su-30MKI,a precedent,so there is bugger all that the US can do unless it wants to "hurt" India in the process which will have its own repercussions.

Sorry,'70s.The SH is merely the final avatar of the ancient F-17,which lost out to the F-16 for the USAF and was modified for the USN as the F-18.Just take a look at the first and last of the series.The latest upgrades of the F-18s might have appeared in the '90s,but the F-17 DNA is unmistakable! No one says that the MIG-35 is not an avatar of the MIG-29 either,no matter how good the "new" fighter is.

The extra Flanker acquisitions are going to be accelerated because of shortfalls in other production programmes.Many might be built in Russia to speed up the process as Indian production on schedule cannot be guaranteed.HAL,the only aerospace manufacturer in India,has so many programmes;LCA,IJT,SU-30 production,MIG-29 engines and upgrades,Jaguar upgrades,MIG-/27 upgrades,Mirage-200 upgrades,MTA.etc.,not to mention the helo projects too! So it's good news,as it will fill faster the void in the IAF with the retirement of old MIG-21s,etc.Once there are more SU-30s in service earlier than originally planned,the number of MMRCAs might be reduced,as they will be considerably costlier and inferior to the later variant SU-30s.

Boeing's "dreams" might turn into reality now that F-22 production has been halted by Congress.Here the "6th-gen" aircraft comes with manned and unmanned options unlike the F-22 and JSF,which also is suffering from serious teething problems.With Russia about to unveil this year its own 5th-gen fighter,the US needs to be top dog always.So the creative wheel must turn and turn.

kit
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby kit » 23 Jul 2009 16:20

The American end user agreement involves components also ? not sure about this , but almost all israeli equipment do have American components .. does that mean even yehudi radars would be subject to american inspection ?

Kailash
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Kailash » 23 Jul 2009 17:13

kit wrote:The American end user agreement involves components also ? not sure about this , but almost all israeli equipment do have American components .. does that mean even yehudi radars would be subject to american inspection ?


I don't think they can do it post sales. However Israel may be obligated to let US know that they are re-exporting US sub-components to another country. The sale itself could be stopped if US feels like it. They can also stop Israel from supplying further spares etc post sale.

But I don't think they can force a check on the third country.

NRao
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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jul 2009 17:23

We seem to have a Prasun in the making on BR!!! Parts are already made.

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Re: MRCA News and Discussion

Postby Cybaru » 23 Jul 2009 17:52

130 MKI and 40 LCA to be absorbed in the next 5 years. Do we have bandwidth to absorb any MRCA?


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