Indian Space Program Discussion

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Arun_S
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 08 Oct 2008 04:47

Sanjay M wrote:So then Falcon1 with its $8M cost is priced lower than PSLV?

Falcon1 an falcon9 are different birds.
The $8M pricie tag is not the only criterion to compare it with PSLV.
Can you please also contrast Falcon1's payload x orbit capability vs PSLV?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby hnair » 08 Oct 2008 05:29

Not to mention the reliability of the whole deal with SpaceX. Both the technology as well as the organization is not yet proven to be reliable or did anything in a cost effective and time bound manner.

However, IMO, Space X has its potential uses for India, but it is not as a space launcher: this is the right time to pay back in the same coin as was done with the "PSLV is a giant ICBM" lie against ISRO. As I mentioned earlier (and which Sanjay M has started running with in a different direction), Indian government should express some opinion like this:

"India has concerns about the non-proliferation aspects of this launcher. If used as an ICBM, this launcher can reach a lot of places in the world. SpaceX, being a small start-up company with no identifiable revenue and no big defense contract buffers like Boeing or LM, could be tempted to sell this technology to regimes hostile to democratic nations of the world. Some smaller US companies have been known to bend rules and sell proscribed high tech stuff to countries, without getting all US government clearances."

In other words, the only countries that dont care about the overall reliability of a partner like SpaceX are those with "lots of money but not known to have any discernible scientific establishments". And those countries are in our near/far neighbourhoods

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby prao » 08 Oct 2008 20:28

vavinash wrote:The cost of PSLV is absolutely wrong. The GSLV costs around 36 mil. There is no way PSLV costs around 30 mil.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 861000.htm
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/20070423_pslv.htm

The links provide the cost of PSLV as Rs 80 crore in 2007 which is about 18 mil for PSLV-CA it is Rs 68 crore or 16 mil. The vega is simply too costly and they have been trying to peddle it by offering to launch the first 5 customers for a discounted price of 17 mil.


Boss, it's very easy to do a quick Google search and write stuff. Give it some thought, it is not a trivial question that I've asked. There are several issues here.

(1) It is very difficult to compare satellite launch costs because the amount charged for a launch may only be loosely related to the actual cost of the launch. For example the PSLV launched several small satellites early on for almost nothing. Even the first purely commercial launch probably just recovered actual cost if that. Then there are friendship prices, prices to load up the launch vehicle (when marginal cost to add another satellite may be lower), political considerations where prices may go up because not many countries are willing to launch a particular country's satellite, effect of the launch site on the cost etc. etc. I have never found two purely commercial quotes for the same satellite launch which would really allow a good comparison (Here's another Google search for you to do :) )

(2) France is (one of the countries) paying for the Vega launch vehicle development. Why are they doing that if they want to go for the PSLV and if the PSLV is more cost effective?

(3) Why a "long-term" agreement rather than a case-by-case agreement? What is the agreement really saying? Who is getting what?

And so on... See the devil is in the details and unless you're in the thick of it, you'll have to do a fair amount of research to really understand it.

Prao

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vavinash » 08 Oct 2008 21:06

1) The link I gives gives the actual cost not how much ISRO charged the users. So read again. 23 mil for vega is also the actual cost does not include R&D cost etc.

2) So? Israel has shavit why did they use PSLV? France is paying for vega but the main contributors are italians. If italy signs such a pact with ISRO rest assure vega is in trouble. When vega was started they might have wanted it to be cheaper than PSLV but as experiences with A-380/A-400M and now Vega shows, europeans simply can't control the prices.

3)If Vega is costly now I don't see its price ever going below PSLV unless ESA wants to take a financial hit and offer discounted prices for a long long while.

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Indian Naut ?!

Postby kit » 11 Oct 2008 14:43

Guys
We have to get a name for the Indian space traveller ! Name him or well her !... we have Cosmonauts , Astronauts and Taikonauts .... we need a cool name for the Indian ..naut ! asap ! Dont know why but I was thinking about Captain Nemo and Nautilus :) So what is it going to be .... some one well versed in sanskrit ..?
Last edited by kit on 11 Oct 2008 14:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby kit » 11 Oct 2008 14:44

No .. not vayunauts ! can the moderator start a new thread for putting up names ? we ll need it and the matter is important enough to deserve a separate thread. 8)

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby harbans » 11 Oct 2008 16:09

Kit, need not worry too much. Astronaut is a Sanskrit derived word itself. From Star in English in turn from Sitara in Sanskrit and Naut from Navgath, same derivative as Navigation from Navgatih..

But there's a debate on and a few Articles/ suggestions too:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 623487.ece

http://ekawaaz.wordpress.com/2006/11/03 ... ut-a-name/

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rahul M » 11 Oct 2008 16:57

the one we use in bengali in turn sanskrit derived is pretty good IMO.
navoshchar= navo + char /equiv to 'star wanderer/traveler'.

else stick to gaganviharin ! :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arya Sumantra » 11 Oct 2008 17:19

Antrix-Yatri or gaganyatri or gaganpathic

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rahul M » 11 Oct 2008 18:53

yatri has inactive connotations IMHO. yatri is the one in the back of the cab twiddling his thumbs !

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby K Mehta » 11 Oct 2008 19:18

vyomonaut? how about that?
I like gaganvihari(n) too

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 11 Oct 2008 19:38

Rahulji......since airlines and railways generally address the travellers as yatri ala yatri kripya dhyan de...........IMHO the term is appropriate for space travel also.

My vote goes for Antrixyatri.

On a side note ....I remember superman being addressed as
JOR-EL putra :wink: in a dubbed version.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Rahul M » 11 Oct 2008 19:49

that is precisely the point, yatri is passenger.
whose image would you rather have flashing on minds on hearing the term space passenger, armstrong or dennis tito ? :wink:

I just hope thay move away from another naut. anyway that's a bit far-off.

on another note, what can WE commoners expect from the upcoming chandrayaan launch in terms of images and such ? any ideas ?

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 11 Oct 2008 20:28

Well I agree with you on the naut issue NOT ANOTHER NAUT PLEASE.

Looking forward for the image of the far side of the moon.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby vavinash » 11 Oct 2008 22:07

The first Indian in space was a cosmonaut. Why not continue the same? The americans because of their inferiority complex came up with astronaut (star-traveller??? :rotfl: ). Why do we need to do the same. Cosmonaut sounds perfectly ok to me.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arya Sumantra » 12 Oct 2008 02:34

The first Indian in space was a cosmonaut. Why not continue the same? The americans because of their inferiority complex came up with astronaut (star-traveller??? ). Why do we need to do the same. Cosmonaut sounds perfectly ok to me.

Cosmonaut is a soviet term. You become a leader by creating your own terms/ways/techniques and getting others to follow you. Followers don't become leaders. Highest position for a follower is a 2nd position. Even two competing american profs doing research in a new upcoming area create different terms to refer to the same thing and make sure their students publish papers using "their" terms onlee. Eventually the term that gets wider acceptance among the research community and tech-companies wins.

Antrixmargi or Gaganmargi or better still Vyomchari

Should be able to create a Google Moon with chandrayaan images.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanjay M » 12 Oct 2008 02:55

Why not change the G to a J, and go with Jaga-naut (Jagannath)? ;P

After all, those launch vehicles are pretty hefty things to move

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arya Sumantra » 12 Oct 2008 03:58

Sanjay M wrote:Why not change the G to a J, and go with Jaga-naut (Jagannath)? ;P


ndtv, dna and cnn-ibn will brand it a communal launch

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby disha » 12 Oct 2008 06:38

K Mehta wrote:vyomonaut? how about that?
I like gaganvihari(n) too


Would not that be a copyright violation? :twisted:

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby disha » 12 Oct 2008 06:40

Rahul M wrote:the one we use in bengali in turn sanskrit derived is pretty good IMO.
navoshchar= navo + char /equiv to 'star wanderer/traveler'.

else stick to gaganviharin ! :mrgreen:


Sure - with due acknowledgements to me!!!!

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 12 Oct 2008 06:55


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Sanjay M » 12 Oct 2008 08:18

Here's an interesting concept I'd come across some time ago:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/searagon.htm

1962 - Sea Dragon low cost heavy-lift vehicle proposed
Sea Dragon was a two-stage design capable of putting 550 tonnes into low Earth orbit. The concept was to achieve minimum launch costs through lower development and production costs. This meant accepting a larger booster with a lower performance propulsion system and higher stage dead weight then traditional NASA and USAF designs.


Why couldn't India try something like this?
After all, India could probably boast of comparatively low production costs on such a bulky system.
Is efficiency really everything? After all, it's really cost that counts in the end.

The first stage had a single pressure fed, thrust chamber of 36 million kgf thrust, burning LOX/Kerosene. The second stage was ‘considerably smaller’ (thrust only 6.35 million kgf!) and burned LOX/LH2. The complete vehicle was 23 m in diameter and 150 m long. The all-up weight was 18,000 tonnes. The launch vehicle would be fuelled with RP-1 kerosene in port, then towed horizontally to a launch point in the open ocean. It would then be filled with cryogenic liquid oxygen and hydrogen from tankers or produced by electrolysis of sea water by a nuclear aircraft carrier (such as the CVN Enterprise in the painting). After fuelling, the tanks at the launcher base would be flooded, and the vehicle would reach a vertical position in the open ocean. Launch would follow. The concept was proven with tests of the earlier Sea Bee and Sea Horse vehicles. Aside from the baseline two-stage expendable version, a single-stage-to-orbit reusable vehicle with a plug nozzle was designed. Costs to low earth orbit were estimated to be between $60/kg and $600/kg - eg one fourth that of the Saturn V or less.


Image

This type of launch system would dovetail with India's ATV submarine, which could use nuclear power to fuel up the large rocket at sea. Furthermore, India's proposed thorium-fueled Compact High-Temperature Reactor is supposed to be very suited for efficiently generating hydrogen in bulk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby K Mehta » 12 Oct 2008 15:31

disha wrote:
K Mehta wrote:vyomonaut? how about that?
I like gaganvihari(n) too


Would not that be a copyright violation? :twisted:

that is why i said i like it, not i propose
with due acknowledgment to you.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby SwamyG » 12 Oct 2008 19:45

How far is fusion experiment from 'fission' India's grip?
Chandrayaan-I , India's first mission to the Moon, could be the precursor to extensive research on fusion energy in India. Fusion, said
to be the future source of energy , is not yet a major research concern in top science institutes in the country, including the Indian Institute of Science, Indian Institute of Astrophysics and Tata Institute of Fundamental Research.

The general feeling in the scientific community is that fusion as a source of energy is too far away in time and that anything significant would happen only 30 to 50 years from now. Scientists also say fusion experiments are highly challenging and require vast amounts of resource and time.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby sum » 13 Oct 2008 08:45

Link
IDSN tracks Japanese lunar mission

R. Ramachandran

Bangalore: The impressive communications infrastructure called the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN), set up by the Indian Space Research Organisation to transmit and receive signals from Chandrayaan 1, successfully tracked last week the Japanese lunar mission SELENE (Koguya), launched in 2007 and now orbiting the moon.

“We have been able to establish downlink with the spacecraft with the help of JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency),” S. K. Shiva Kumar, Director, ISRO Telemetry Tracking and Command (ISTRAC), told The Hindu.

“We have also been able to bring uplink fairly quickly, establish contact with the spacecraft and track the spacecraft successfully. That has given us ample confidence. If you have tracked a similar object closer to the moon and have been able to establish links with it with good margins, to that extent your comfort level is high. You don’t have to worry about our capability to do [it] with Chandrayaan,” he said.

The IDSN has been set up at Byalalu, a village 40 km from Bangalore. It is an important and critical element of Chandrayaan, expected to be launched on October 22, as it is the constant communication link to the lunar satellite from the ground. It will be used for tracking as well as for orbit control and housekeeping operations for the entire duration of the moon mission of about two years.
Different game

Doing this for a deep space mission such as the moon mission is a different ball game altogether as compared to the satellite missions that ISRO had undertaken hitherto, which included Low Earth Orbit (LEO) remote sensing IRS system of satellites and geostationary communication INSAT satellites. Missions that go beyond a distance of 1,00,000 km from the earth are usually termed as deep space missions.

The IDSN comprises a 32-metre antenna designed and built indigenously and an 18-metre antenna built by a German agency to ISRO’s specifications. As the launch of Chandrayaan approaches, the natural question is how do we know that DSN-32 will perform as desired, given that ISRO has had no earlier experience in deep space missions? How is DSN-32 calibrated to say with confidence that Chandrayaan will be accurately tracked throughout its lifetime? The IDSN will take over the tracking of Chandrayaan 17 minutes after its launch from the Satish Dhawan Space Launch Centre at Sriharikota, when the satellite would have separated from the launch vehicle.

While, in principle, it would suffice for the IDSN to take over after the lunar satellite reaches the Earth Transfer Orbit (ETO) of 1,00,000-km apogee, being the first deep space mission, the IDSN plans to track in parallel beyond the first ETO apogee of 22,000 km itself, according to Dr. Shiva Kumar.
Link with ROSETTA

“When Chandrayaan goes near the moon, we will be there to track it,” Dr. Kumar said. In addition, beginning this week, DSN-32 will be put into calibration and test mode with another deep space probe of the European Space Agency (ESA) called ROSETTA, a probe launched in 2004 with the objective of landing on the Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenkoin 2014.

When a link with ROSETTA would be established, DSN-32 would have truly proved itself as the real deep space tracking system. In addition, the IDSN is being put to regularly track radio stars. “We have been tracking Cygnus, Cassiopeia (supernova remnant stars) and, of course, sun and moon which are all good radio sources in their own right. We have been able to obtain signals from them and track them,” Dr. Kumar said. “This has also given us ample experience… we now know how to maximise our signals,” he pointed out.

Good show by ISRO so far.....


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby svinayak » 14 Oct 2008 02:35



During the panel discussion, several members of the audience asked Kasturirangan and two of his colleagues questions about the Indian space program. His colleagues included S. Chandrashekar, a professor of corporate strategy at the Indian Institute of Management in Bangalore, as well as a 20-year veteran of ISRO. Chandrashekar’s recent work at NIAS includes an assessment of Pakistani and Chinese ballistic missile capabilities. In response to a question about Pakistan’s missiles he said that it is clear that they are not entirely based upon Chinese technology and that Pakistan clearly has significant ballistic missile design expertise of its own. Chandrashekar also said that his assessment of China’s missiles disagrees with that of the United States. For instance, he said that while the Americans have concluded that the Chinese DF-5 ICBM is a two-stage missile, his group has concluded that it is actually a three-stage missile. His research also disagrees with the American assessment of China’s newer DF-31 ICBM.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 14 Oct 2008 03:14

Acharya wrote:


During the panel discussion, several members of the audience asked Kasturirangan and two of his colleagues questions about the Indian space program. His colleagues included S. Chandrashekar, a professor of corporate strategy at the Indian Institute of Management in Bangalore, as well as a 20-year veteran of ISRO. Chandrashekar’s recent work at NIAS includes an assessment of Pakistani and Chinese ballistic missile capabilities. In response to a question about Pakistan’s missiles he said that it is clear that they are not entirely based upon Chinese technology and that Pakistan clearly has significant ballistic missile design expertise of its own. Chandrashekar also said that his assessment of China’s missiles disagrees with that of the United States. For instance, he said that while the Americans have concluded that the Chinese DF-5 ICBM is a two-stage missile, his group has concluded that it is actually a three-stage missile. His research also disagrees with the American assessment of China’s newer DF-31 ICBM.


Firstly I know that Prof S. Chandrashekar's group is very capable. Believe his group has been using ROCKSIM for quite some time now ;).
Prof S. Chandrashekar mentioned sometime ago that BR website has been a useful site for them to do their studies on Paki and Chinee missiles.

I & BR big-Boss treasure few photos with the team and Dr.Kasturirangan during last Aero India.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby krishnan » 14 Oct 2008 10:38



Kasturirangan said that ISRO has not yet made a decision concerning launch vehicles, but is considering a 2.5-stage rocket for carrying a manned spacecraft into orbit. ISRO is studying two possibilities, the current Geostationary Launch Vehicle (or GSLV), which has flown successfully several times, or the planned GSLV Mark 3, which is scheduled for first launch in 2010. The Mark 3 will be more capable, but as of yet it is only a paper vehicle and therefore higher risk.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 15 Oct 2008 02:14


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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 15 Oct 2008 02:49

krishnan wrote:


Kasturirangan said that ISRO has not yet made a decision concerning launch vehicles, but is considering a 2.5-stage rocket for carrying a manned spacecraft into orbit. ISRO is studying two possibilities, the current Geostationary Launch Vehicle (or GSLV), which has flown successfully several times, or the planned GSLV Mark 3, which is scheduled for first launch in 2010. The Mark 3 will be more capable, but as of yet it is only a paper vehicle and therefore higher risk.


Dr Kasthurirangan must be lying, because Indians must always trust & believe the crap emitted by divine Anglo Saxon . The gem excreted by one such high class Anglo Saxon Eric Margolis, the most authoritative and credible person who even visited some of the Indian N plants.

Cross posting from the nuclear thread.
Arun_S wrote:
ramana wrote:The Marogoli article is a compilation of half truths and fears that led to the Hyde Act. Very interesting and revealing of the mindset that he represents. The mofo is Canadian and is preaching to US on how to suck an egg!

Whats the veracity of his 286 pounds a year claim? And not its not in tens or hundreds as if he has isnider info! Whys isnt it 786? 8)

N^3 a lot of gems to mine and will be lost if the whines are not documented.


Judge a subject matter expert by having presented no idotic claims/data. This article by the so called expert shows he is no expert but as good as the crap he vomits.
RajeshA wrote:The White House's Final Folly by Eric Margolis: Huffington Post
.... ... The Senators and Representatives who voted for this profoundly unwise deal simply had no idea that India is fast-emerging as the world's newest strategic nuclear power - and one whose increasingly long reach will soon threaten the U.S. While fulminating against Iran, which has no nuclear weapons and no long-ranged delivery systems, Washington will now aid India to build nuclear armed inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM's).

For the past decade, India has been quietly developing a series of ICBM's under cover of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO). The GSLV-III heavy space launcher, which India has used to put numerous satellites into orbit, has been transformed into its new, three-stage Surya ICBM with a range of 6-7,000 miles. A missile that can launch heavy satellites can also deliver warheads at long range.

First ISRO's GSLV-3 is still under initial development and has not even made one flight. And here Eric Margolis states as black and white fact that GSLV-3 has put multiple satellites in orbit. Stretching it further by saying it has transformed into a 3 stage missile (again a clear unfounded lie). Then further he talks of a yet non-existing Surya missile that is based on liquid fueled and cryo fueled GSLV-3 space launcher. Can someone please tell him to hire Gen Musharraf as his proxy writer for 400% accurate information and anal-is-is? Gen Musharraf also famous for GUBO service.

Since India is most unlikely to war with Europe, Australia, or Latin America, the only other conceivable target for India's long-ranged ICBM's would be the United States. Thanks to President Bush and the powerful pro-India lobby, the US will now help India with the high-speed computers and electronics to make its missiles more accurate, powerful and long-ranged.

Eric Margolis may well ask by the same token "since India is most unlikely to war with Europe, Australia, or Latin America", by what imagination will India go to war against a friendly country like USA or Canada? Unless of course USA or Canada have design for a overt war with India? Or is it is really his fear (chor ki dadhee main tinka) that US or Canada have been waging a covert war against India all these years (as against countries that have not waged covert war against India like Europe, Australia, or Latin America); the recent ones being Khalistani terrorism, K...... and K..... .

India is also rapidly developing a new sea-launched missile with a 450 mile range, `Sagarika.' This nuclear armed weapon will complete India's nuclear triad of air, land, and sea-launched weapons. `Sagarika,' carried on up to five new strategic missile submarines India is building, must also be counted a potential threat to North America.
Looks like Eric Margolis is convinced that Gwad did not give any rights to heathen Indians. India cant arm itself living in a dangerous neighborhood and growing economy. No weapons it develops against China etc that can hit US sovereign acreage floating in Gulf or Indian ocean are legitimate. Oh well might as well keep those sovereign acreage closer to shore and all will be fine w.r.t. the 450km range mijjile. Why invite rape by walking in dangerous neighborhood being drunk and wearing miniskirt? Especially true for a Canadian who does not need Canadian visa!!

India's growing fleet of Russian-supplied attack submarines, like the formidable 'Akula' are armed with the world's fastest and deadliest anti-ship missile, 'BrahMos,' a weapon designed to sink aircraft carriers. Besides India, the only nation operating carriers in the Indian Ocean is the United States Navy. Indian strategists claim this ocean as India's `Mare Nostrum.'

Am surprised as to why the word "Monroe Doctrine" is so alien to the gospel preacher.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Nitesh » 15 Oct 2008 16:29

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bang ... 592628.cms

Kalam: India set to step into Earth-Moon-Mars complex
14 Oct 2008, 0610 hrs IST,TNN

BANGALORE: Former President and scientist Dr A P J Abdul Kalam, who has been in the forefront of India's scientific and defence endeavours for over 40 years, is a man with a mission and vision. He would like India to be a superpower by 2020, for which the country has to undertake mega missions. The Moon mission is one such. India is set for its date with history on October 22, when the PSLV blasts off from Sriharikota to launch Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft to the Moon. The Times of India, which is carrying a countdown to India's first Moon mission, contacted Dr Kalam for his message.

What is the most important value of India's Moon mission?

I visualize an Earth-Moon-Mars complex to become an economic entity of strategic importance to many nations. In this situation, India's Moon mission will give a boost to space research. Young scientists will look towards studying the physical geological structure, mineral potential and availability of helium-3 in large quantities on the lunar surface.

What signal does India's Moon mission send to the world?

India has the capability to build any type of launch vehicle , any type of spacecraft and launch it not only in Earth's orbit, but also in the lunar orbit. It will give a signal that India is ready to become a partner in international space missions. This will also enable the evolution of the Earth-Moon-Mars complex, leading to inter-planetary economic activity and evolution of an alternative habitat.

What does the Moon mission mean to the scientific community and students at large in India?

Already, the young in India are aspiring to become astronauts. The scientific community and students will find many research challenges in material science, exploration, transportation and low-cost production of energy.

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 15 Oct 2008 20:05

Vidyarthi-sir: What is the reason NRSA was initially formed under DOS and what is the advantage of moving it under ISRO?



ISRO: National Remote Sensing Agency becomes an ISRO Centre
Considering the importance of the activities carried out in the area of aerial and satellite remote sensing, the National Remote Sensing Agency (NRSA), an autonomous society under Department of Space (DOS) has been converted into a full-fledged Government organisation called National Remote Sensing Centre (NRSC) from today (September 1, 2008).

NRSA was established as a registered society under the Department of Science & Technology in 1974 with the objective of undertaking and facilitating remote sensing activities in the country. The administrative control of NRSA was transferred to the Department of Space during early eighties and with the growth of indigenous efforts in space borne remote sensing, NRSA played a major role in the ground segment under the Indian Remote Sensing Programme. NRSA, through its training establishment Indian Institute of Remote Sensing (IIRS), Dehra Dun, has become an institution of international repute for capacity building.

It is expected that, with the conversion, NRSC will, as part of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), fully integrate with other ISRO Centres in the development and operations of the ground segment of the large constellation of India Remote Sensing Satellites and will also take a bigger role during the R&D phase of IRS programme.

NRSC as a Government entity, is expected to fulfill its goals playing a major role in important national programmes, through linkages with all concerned Government departments/agencies such as Ministries of agriculture, water resources, urban development, Home Affairs, etc., including the National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA).

DrVJayaraman.jpgDr V Jayaraman has been appointed as Director, National Remote Sensing Centre (NRSC), Hyderabad and he took charge from Dr K Radhakrishnan, the out-going Director.

Dr Jayaraman holds a Bachelor’s degree in electronics engineering from University of Madras, Master of Science in electrical engineering from IIT, Madras and a Doctorate in Physics from Bangalore University. He is recognised for his contributions in the areas ranging from spacecraft systems engineering to applications development and positioning of policies & regulatory framework for integrating the high technology inputs into national development. Dr Jayaraman has brought coherence amongst technology, research and applications of direct relevance to Earth science.

Dr. Jayaraman is a fellow of institution of Electronics and Telecommunications Engineers, Fellow of Indian Geophysical Union, Member of the Indian Society of Remote Sensing, Indian Society of Geomatics and Astronautical Society of India.

Arun_S
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arun_S » 15 Oct 2008 21:26

IMVHO some interesting progress/status news. From
http://www.isro.org/Accounts/OutcomeBudget2008-2009.pdf

Cyrogenic Upper Stage Project (CUSP)
Cryo stage is planned to be transported to SDSC-SHAR for integration with the GSLV D3 during Mid 2008.

GSLV Mk III
    Propellant Plant, Thrust Chamber Test Facility, Integration and Test Facilities.

    Completion of S 200 Static Tests, C25 Engine tests, L110 Stage tests, realisation of propellant tanks for C 25 and L110 and readiness of avionics systems and SAS for ground tests.

    Partial Outcome: Realisation of technical facilities and development hardware required for GSLV Mk III. The project is currently in intermediate stage. The final outcome of achieving self reliance in launching 4T class of INSAT satellites will accrue upon successful flight testing of GSLV Mk III vehicle.

PSLV-C {Aruns_S: Notice the official name of the PSLV configuration}
    To fabricate seven PSLV operational launch vehicles (PSLV C7 - C13) and take advance action for procurement of materials for two more flights PSLV C14 and C15 for launching Remote Sensing and Scientific satellites of 10th plan and beyond.

    PS 01, PS0 motors, PS3 motor, PS4 stage, PS02 stage, avionics systems, control systems, stage auxiliary systems and interstage strucutres for PSLV C12 - C18. Qualification of High performance PS2 propellant tank and PS4 high peformance Engine for High performance PSLV. Missions: Vehicle assembly, integration, testing and launch of PSLV C9, 11 & 12

    Launching of Chandrayaan-1, Cartosat-2A, Ocensat-2, Third World Satellite and other customer satellites.

Space Capsule Recovery Experiment (SRE-1& 2): SRE-2 launch is planned during 2009.

Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC)
To develop critical and advanced technologies related to satellite launch vehicles including Reusable Launch Vehicles (RLV), Sounding rockets and allied subsystems and provide infrastructure support for development and fabrication / testing of Indian launch vehicles.

    Airbreathing Propulsion:
      Scramjet combustor tests in flight configuration, Commissioning of MACH 6 high speed combustor test facility, RH 560 (M) DMRFFTD 01 vehicle characterisation flight with dummy scramjet engines followed by 2 Scramjet characterisation flights with H2 fuel injection. Sounding rocket launchings for atmospheric studies.

    Reusable Launch Vehicle - Technology Demonstrator:

      Fabrication and assembly of Engineering Model, Structural Model and Proto model air frame, interstage and base shroud with fin, total aerodynamic characterisation using CFD and Wind Tunnel, Realisation and testing of all flight hardware. Installation of 6MW Plasma wind tunnel facility, Realisation of 1m HWT and 1m Shock tunnel facility, Installation and commissioning of Indigenous 250kN Shaker and Angular Motion Simulator. Production of Ammonium Perchlorate for Solid Propulsion systems Technology development initiatives in the area of avionics, aeronautics, advanced materials, propulsion systems, mechanisms, control and guidance and manufacturing technology. Launch Vehicle Hardware development and realisation for PSLV, GSLV and GSLV MK III launch vehicles

      Technology development initiatives and hardware development and realisation lead to state-of-art launch vehicles for Indian Space
      Programme.

      RLV-TD and air breathing propulsion are targeted for completion during 2009-10.

      As a part of Air Breathing Propulsion technology, Supersonic combustion has been successfully demonstrated through ground tests in Nov-Dec 2005, which is a major achievement in the area of launch vehicle technology development.

ISRO Inertial Systems Unit. (IISU)
    Research, Development and realisation of inertial sensors and systems for launch vehicles and allied satellite elements.

    Realisation of flight and standby units of RESINS Mk IV for RLV-TD
    Realisation of qualification model of miniature RESINS MkV
    Realisation of MEMS gyro based RGP
    Realisation of AINS flight model for GSLV Mk III
    Realisation and delivery of inertial systems for Resourcesat-2, Cartosat-2B, Youthsat, GSAT-5, RISAT, ASTROSAT and IRNSS.
    Realisation of flight and flight standby units for PSLV and GSLV flights.
    Development of advanced inertial systems

    Realisation of tested and qualified inertial systems such as Inertial Navigation systems, Servo Accelerometers, Mission management unit, Momentum Wheels, Reaction Wheels, Solar Array Drive Assembly, Gyros, inertial reference units, scan mechanisms, etc., for Launch Vehicles and Satellites.

    Inertial systems are intermediate products / subsystems used in satellites and launch vehicles.

    Technology development, improvement and scaling up is a continuous process to remain state-of-art in satellite and launch vehicle technology and to achieve maximum self-reliance in this strategic area.

Propulsion Systems Unit (LPSC)
    Development of earth storable liquid propulsion and cryogenic propulsion technology/systems for launch vehicles and satellites.

    Development, integration and testing of first CE20 engine.
    Completion of L 110 development stage with Al alloy propellant tanks.
    Augmentation of PTS for L110 engine.
    Realisation of Electric propulsion system for GSAT-4.
    Realisation of Liquid and Cryogenic Stages for launch vehicles (PSLV C9-C14) and GSLV D3, GSLV F03 and F05.
    Realisation of spacecraft propulsion systems for satellites. (GSAT-4, INSAT-3D, INSAT-4D, ASTROSAT and RISAT)


    Realisation of tested and qualified
    (a) liquid and cryogenic stages for PSLV and GSLV and
    (b) Reaction control systems for IRS and GEOSAT Satellites.

    Liquid and Cryogenic propulsion systems are intermediate products / subsystems used in satellites and launch vehicles.

    Technology development, improvement and scaling up is a continuous process to remain state-ofart
    in satellite and launch vehicle technology and to achieve maximum self-reliance in this strategic area.

    Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre is the lead centre for development of liquid and cryogenic propulsion
    systems and has established unique technical infrastructure (test and fabrication facilities) at Mahendragiri, Valiamala and Bangalore.

Manned Mission Initiatives
    Develop a fully autonomous manned space vehicle to carry crew to low earth orbit and safe return to earth.
    (Pre-project phase)
    Mission design and analysis.
    Initiate development of critical / new technologies
    for crew module, service module, launch escape system, etc.,
    Initiate establishment of long term facilities.

    The proposal is in initial stages and the pre-project activities proposed in 2008-09 are prelude to identify the detailed elements required for undertaking a manned mission. The final outcome, in terms of availability of technologies for manned mission would take about 8 -10 years.

    A detailed project report is expected to be formulated for approval of the Government during 2008-09.


Semi-cryogenic Engine / Stage
    Development Developing a higher thrust semicryogenic core stage for the unified modular launch vehicle.
    (Project not yet approved)
    Finalisation of the project report.
    Initiation of the design and development efforts.

    The proposal is in initial stages. The final outcome, in terms of availability of higher thrust semi-cryogenic stage is expected after six years.

    The approval of the project is targetted during the FY 2008-09

Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology
    To develop high quality manpower required for Space Science, technology and applications programmes.

    Conduct of the courses for the academic year 2008-09
    Initiation of building the campus and other infrastructural facilities.

    The institute is in initial stages. The final outcome, in terms of availability of manpower for ISRO is expected after four years.

    Government have approved the proposal of setting up the Institute.

    IIST has started the courses from the Academic year 2007-08 around the existing infrastrucutre of VSSC.
    About 140 studnets have been admitted to three courses in Avionics, Aerospace engg and applied science.


SATELLITE TECHNOLOGY
Oceansat-2: The launch and operationalisation of Oceansat-2 is planned in 2008-09
Resourcesat-2: Resourcesat-2 is planned for launch in 2009 onboard India's PSLV.
Radar Imaging Satellite: Launch and operationalisation of RISAT is targeted for 2009 onboard PSLV.
GSAT-4: GSAT-4 is planned for launch onboard GSLV D3 in 2008-09. Ka band communication payload, which is an advanced communication technology, is being developed for the first time in the country.
Navigational Satellite System: IRNSS is a constellation of 7 satellites and the first satellite in the series is planned for launch in 2009-10.
Advanced Communication Satellite: Advanced Commun. Satellite (ACS) is under preliminary stages and the project report is planned for approval of the Government in 2008-09. Launch of ACS is expected during 11th plan period.

Earth Observation - New Missions (GEO HR, SARAL, Carto-3, TES-HyS, DMSAR)
    To undertake New Earth Observation Missions of 11th plan such as GEOHR mission for enhanced repetivity, Saral small satellite mission for Ocean and atmospheric studies, TES with Hyperspectral sensors, Cartosat-3 and SAR for Disaster Management Support.

    The approvals of the Government for GEO-HR and Saral are planned during 2008-09.

Semi-conductors Laboratory (SCL)
      products and leading R & D effort in the area of microelectronics.
      Establishment of component screening setup for space grade components.
      Fabrication of various Application Specific Integrated Circuits (ASICs), MEMS, System products,foundry and IT services against specific requirements.
      Development of TDI CCD imager for space applications.
      Development of Radhard technology /process.

      Realisation of microelectronic devices such as ASICs, MEMS based devices, CCDs, memories, etc, for strategic applications.
      The output of this unit is an intermediate product used as components / devices insatellites and launch vehicles. Technology/process / device development, improvement and scaling up is a continuous processto remain state-of art in the area of micro-electronics technology and to achieve maximum self-reliance in this strategic area.

      SCL has integrated capability comprising of design, wafer fabrication (up to 0.8 micron technology), testing, packaging, quality assurance and system /board level assembly of micro-electronics devices.
      It has developed VLSI products, sensing devices and MEMS for strategic orgnisations such as DRDO, DAE and ISRO.

    SPACE SCIENCES
    Megha- Tropiques: Launch and Operationalisation of Megha-Tropiques is targeted for 2009-10.

    ASTROSAT: satellite launch is planned for 2009-10

    Indian Lunar Mission Chandrayaan-1 : is slated for launch in Mid 2008.

    Small Satellites for Atmospheric Studies and Astronomy: Approval for the project is envisaged during 2008-09

    INSAT-3 satellites (including launch services): Launch and operationalisation of INSAT-3D is targeted for 2009.

    INSAT-4 Satellites(including launchservices): INSAT-4D satellite is targeted for launch in 2009.





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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Arunkumar » 15 Oct 2008 21:46

Arun_S wrote:IMVHO some interesting progress/status news. From
http://www.isro.org/Accounts/OutcomeBudget2008-2009.pdf

..............................

Cyrogenic Upper Stage Project (CUSP)
Cryo stage is planned to be transported to SDSC-SHAR for integration with the GSLV D3 during Mid 2008.

Semi-cryogenic Engine / Stage
    Development Developing a higher thrust semicryogenic core stage for the unified modular launch vehicle.
    (Project not yet approved)
    Finalisation of the project report.
    Initiation of the design and development efforts.

    The proposal is in initial stages. The final outcome, in terms of availability of higher thrust semi-cryogenic stage is expected after six years.

    The approval of the project is targetted during the FY 2008-09
...................

[/list]


Thanks for the pdf
From the above , the LOX-kerosene engine will fructify around 2014-2015. So is it specifically for manned mission?

arun
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby arun » 15 Oct 2008 22:54

Indian Deep Space Network tracks the Koguya and Rosseta space missions news

14 October 2008

Bangalore: As preparation for its own lunar mission, Chandrayaan-I, the Indian Space Reserach Organisation's communications infrastructure, the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN), set up to transmit and receive signals from Chandrayaan 1, successfully tracked the Japanese lunar mission Selene (Koguya) last week. Launched in 2007 this satellite is currently in orbit around the moon.

According to ISRO Telemetry Tracking and Command (ISTRAC) officials they were able to uplink with Koguya with the help of JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency). They said IDSN established contact with the spacecraft and tracked it successfully.

This operation has provided the IDSN setup ample confidence that it will be able to track the Chandrayaan-I with ease.

In addition, starting this week, the IDSN'S 32-metre antenna at Byalalu will be put into calibration and test mode with another deep space probe of the European Space Agency (ESA) called Rosetta.

This probe, launched in 2004, aims to land on the Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko in 2014. Establishing a link with Rosetta would establish the IDSN's capabilities as a deep space tracking system.

The IDSN

Space missions that travel beyond a distance of 100,000 km from the earth are usually termed deep space missions. For ISRO, a deep space mission such as Chandrayaan will be in a different league altogether from the kind of space missions it has handled so far. Apart from development of launch vehicles these have included Low Earth Orbit (LEO) remote sensing (Indian Remote Sensing) system of satellites and geostationary communication INSAT satellites.

The IDSN set up at Byalalu, a village 40 km from Bangalore, will provide constant communication link to Chandrayaan-I from the ground. It will be used for tracking, orbit control and housekeeping operations of India's lunar mission for its entire duration of two years.

The IDSN infrastructure itself comprises a 32-metre antenna designed and built indigenously along with an 18-metre antenna built by a German company to ISRO's specifications.

The IDSN will begin to track Chandrayaan 17 minutes after its launch from the Satish Dhawan Space Launch Centre at Sriharikota, when the satellite would have separated from the launch vehicle.

Apart from the Koguya and the Rosseta the IDSN is also tracking radio stars, such as Cygnus, Cassiopeia (supernova remnant stars) as well as the sun and the moon which are all radio sources. ISTRAC sources said all these operations had already provided them with ample experience and they now knew how to maximise their signals.

Domain B

arun
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby arun » 15 Oct 2008 23:00

The W2M satellite is manufactured by ISRO.

I think the W2M will the first Indian manfactured satellite bought by a non-Indian entity :

News Date: 2008-10-15 06:33 pm

Arianespace Flight 186 with Eutelsat's Hot Bird and W2M satellites

Paris, France - For end November

"Arianespace and Eutelsat Communications (Euronext Paris: ETL) confirm that the upcoming launch of the Ariane 5 ECA will orbit Eutelsat’s HOT BIRD™ 9 and W2M satellites. The launch of Flight 186 is planned to take place in the last week of November and will be the sixth Ariane 5 launch in 2008.

The modification to the Arianespace launch manifest enables Eutelsat to ensure timely entry into service of HOT BIRD™ 9 and accelerates the deployment of the W2M satellite.

Built by EADS Astrium, the construction of HOT BIRD™ 9 was completed in July and the satellite arrived in Kourou from Toulouse on September 16 to be prepared for launch. W2M, which is built by EADS Astrium / ISRO is due to be shipped from Bangalore (India) to Kourou by mid-October to initiate final preparations for launch.

Designed for consumer broadcasting to satellite and cable homes across Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, the high-power Ku-band HOT BIRD™ 9 satellite, equipped with 64 transponders, will join Eutelsat’s 13 degrees East position to increase in-orbit sparing at the Group’s premium video neighbourhood. HOT BIRD™ 9 is identical to HOT BIRD™ 8 which was launched to 13 degrees East in August 2006 and HOT BIRD™ 10 which will be orbited by Arianespace beginning of 2009.

W2M will be positioned at Eutelsat’s 16 degrees East position which represents one of the Group’s fastest-growing neighbourhoods for digital broadcasting in central Europe and Indian Ocean islands. Equipped with 26 Ku-band transponders and up to 32 depending on operational modes, the new satellite will replace W2 and provide additional capacity for further service expansion".

Avionews

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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby prao » 15 Oct 2008 23:24

Arun_S wrote: ... deleted...
Cross posting from the nuclear thread.
Arun_S wrote:
ramana wrote:The Marogoli article is a compilation of half truths and fears that led to the Hyde Act. Very interesting and revealing of the mindset that he represents. The mofo is Canadian and is preaching to US on how to suck an egg!

Whats the veracity of his 286 pounds a year claim? And not its not in tens or hundreds as if he has isnider info! Whys isnt it 786? 8)

N^3 a lot of gems to mine and will be lost if the whines are not documented.


Judge a subject matter expert by having presented no idotic claims/data. This article by the so called expert shows he is no expert but as good as the crap he vomits.
RajeshA wrote:The White House's Final Folly by Eric Margolis: Huffington Post
.... ... The Senators and Representatives who voted for this profoundly unwise deal simply had no idea that India is fast-emerging as the world's newest strategic nuclear power - and one whose increasingly long reach will soon threaten the U.S. While fulminating against Iran, which has no nuclear weapons and no long-ranged delivery systems, Washington will now aid India to build nuclear armed inter-continental ballistic missiles (ICBM's).

.... more stuff deleted .....

Am surprised as to why the word "Monroe Doctrine" is so alien to the gospel preacher.


Quite simply, this turd knows which side of his bread is buttered. He's protecting his source of income. He's a regular contributor to Puki papers, generating fantasy articles designed to appeal to Puki "sensibilities". At least he is consistent.

Gerard
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 16 Oct 2008 01:49

Quite simply, this turd knows which side of his bread is buttered. He's protecting his source of income.


Nope. Margolis doesn't need the money. He is the heir to and owner of the Jamieson Vitamin company. His motivations are more basic.

Gerard
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion - 23 April 2008

Postby Gerard » 16 Oct 2008 05:02

China needs sharper eyes in space
ISRO in particular is probably what compels Chinese officials to lie awake at night as they try to figure out how they might aggressively outmaneuver India and its relatively down-to-earth approach.

Besides having a coastal rocket launch facility already in operation - ISRO's Satish Dhawan Space Center is far closer to the equator than China's new facility on Hainan Island - India is making rapid inroads into Southeast Asia, Africa and other parts of the world, while inking several launch contracts and satellite deals with the Israelis and Europeans.

Not only is India's prowess in the EOSAT realm attracting considerable attention, but India has already undertaken ambitious satellite-based distance education and telemedicine projects covering vast rural areas. India is the first country to launch the dedicated distance learning satellites known as EDUSAT, and is demonstrating that it can be an effective integrator of terrestrial networks and satellite infrastructures after working its way through a somewhat painful learning curve.


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