Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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vavinash
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 05 Oct 2008 01:19

Nirbhay is 1000 km rang to start of with. Secondly how much would a hypersonic brahmos weigh? Is it even required?

ChandraS

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby ChandraS » 05 Oct 2008 02:56

H.B.Krishna wrote:
vavinash wrote:Unless Nirbhay range increases to 2000 km wouldn't they be overlapping?


BTB No news about Nirbhay these days...Gurus please give us some gyan on the current status of Nirbhay


Generally, no news is good news. Although recently, there was a Lakshya PTA test again 8)

Just my 2 paisa speculation

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 05 Oct 2008 09:05

ChandraS wrote:
H.B.Krishna wrote:
vavinash wrote:Unless Nirbhay range increases to 2000 km wouldn't they be overlapping?


BTB No news about Nirbhay these days...Gurus please give us some gyan on the current status of Nirbhay


Generally, no news is good news. Although recently, there was a Lakshya PTA test again 8)

Just my 2 paisa speculation

The bolded part seems to be 400% true in the Indian R&D context atleast......

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Austin » 05 Oct 2008 11:37

I dont see any reason why they should test Nirbhay CM in secrecy , as they have already reveled the project in public , they may be testing certain system or sub-system related to Nirbhai via Lakshya.

But once they test the fully system aka Nirbhai cruise missile we will know , I think from what I remember they would do the first round of testing of Nirbhay in 2009

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby narayana » 06 Oct 2008 14:11

K Mehta wrote:Thats is not correct. You cannot sell a system like missile/uav which is having range moer than 300 Km but you can co-develop them. Since India would be developing the engine too, in this case co-development is possible.


I doubt it mehta saab,i am no guru though,because if escaping wrath of MTCR was so simple,there would have been new missile sprouting off porki land every year,where chinis will be cloning russian missile and selling them to porkis in name of joint development in which Porkis will be painting the missiles in green something they have mastered over the years,and if that had been so simple all ghauris and abdalis may have been in BD inventory also.

Thanks

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sarabpal.s » 06 Oct 2008 21:37

Austin wrote:I dont see any reason why they should test Nirbhay CM in secrecy , as they have already reveled the project in public , they may be testing certain system or sub-system related to Nirbhai via Lakshya.

But once they test the fully system aka Nirbhai cruise missile we will know , I think from what I remember they would do the first round of testing of Nirbhay in 2009

So we test it 3re time & forward to user nice very nice thing :D

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby renukb » 08 Oct 2008 10:16

From UPI.com

India, Russia plan new air-launched cruise missile

WASHINGTON, Oct. 7 (UPI) -- Flush with success on developing an air-launched supersonic cruise missile -- ALCM -- together, Russia and India have agreed to produce a more ambitious hypersonic one.

Sivathanu Pillai, chief executive officer of the Russian-Indian BrahMos Aerospace joint venture, announced the project in New Delhi on Sept. 29.

"Today, at a meeting of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation, we decided to set up a working group on the development of the BrahMos-2 missile," Pillai said, RIA Novosti reported.

"The new hypersonic missile will have a top speed of over Mach 5, which would make it impossible to intercept," he said.

BrahMos was created by the Russian and Indian governments in 1998. RIA Novosti said sea- and land-based versions of its Mach-2.8 supersonic cruise missile already had been successfully developed and operationally deployed by the Indian army and navy.

Pillai said BrahMos had completed work on its air-launched cruise missile and the Indian air force already had elected the Russian-built Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Flanker-H multirole fighter as its launching aircraft.

RIA Novosti said the BrahMos cruise missile could fly 180 miles with a 660-pound warhead and could fly as low as 30 feet above the ground, making it exceptionally difficult to track and lock on radar or to shoot down. The BrahMos-2 can fly three times as fast as the subsonic U.S. Tomahawk cruise missile.

According to the report, Pillai said the company was going to be able to boost its annual production of cruise missiles to 50 a year, thanks to its recent purchase of an assembly factory in India's Kerala state from Kerala Hitech Industries Ltd. The company's main plant is located in the high-tech city of Hyderabad in southern India.

RIA Novosti said eventually the Indian government might buy as many as 1,000 cruise missiles from BrahMos for its own armed forces and sell 2,000 more to other countries around the world.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 08 Oct 2008 10:19

From above article:
Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Flanker-H

Is it Flanker-H or is it a mix of Su-30 flanker and Mirage-2000H?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 08 Oct 2008 14:18

it is flanker h, NATO reporting name.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby asbchakri » 08 Oct 2008 14:20

Rahul M wrote:it is flanker h, NATO reporting name.


So what does H means, 'Hybrid', with all the Russian-French-Israely-Indian components 8)

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby neerajb » 08 Oct 2008 14:33

asbchakri wrote:
Rahul M wrote:it is flanker h, NATO reporting name.


So what does H means, 'Hybrid', with all the Russian-French-Israely-Indian components 8)


A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H..... Flanker H. Simple isn't it.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 09 Oct 2008 12:45

AGNI man on the glacier

Manu Pubby
Posted: Oct 06, 2008 at 2002 hrs IST
Leh, October 06: An Indian Express team begins a trek to Siachen and keeps you posted, every day.

Till a few weeks ago, Dr Kartikeyan was engrossed in the development and trial of India's strategic delivery systems – the Agni series of missiles. Now, more than a thousand kilometers away from the Hyderabad missile complex, he is more interested in maintaining his blood oxygen levels and learning the tricks of surviving extreme temperatures at high altitudes.

The only DRDO representative taking part in the 30 member civilian expedition to Siachen, Kartikeyan is set to become the first missile scientist to walk up the icy heights of the glacier. Other than, of course, former President APJ Kalam, who set foot on the glacier several times but never actually trekked up it.

The nonchalant scientist, who has a PhD degree in Missile battery technologies, was one the first to put in his name for the two slots reserved for DRDO in the Siachen trek this year.

The motivation being to see the working conditions of soldiers for whom he designs missile systems. "As soon as I saw the notice for the trek, I knew that I had to go," Kartikeyan says.

A part of the secretive Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL), the scientist doesn't want to talk much about his work – other than that he works with the Agni team – but opens up when asked about his background in mountaineering and the reason for his selection for the trek.

"I have never taken part in a mountaineering expedition before. But am a regular table tennis player and assumed would be fit enough for the expedition," Kartikeyan, who represents DRDO in table tennis tournaments, says.

The only thing that scares him, and most members of the expedition, is the daily morning medical checkup. The "elimination round", as some members have termed it, has become the focus point of many lives.

The scientist seems fit – his blood oxygen levels ad blood pressure is more or less normal – but another member has not been so lucky. The first elimination, called by some as "Big Boss ke ghar se pehele bahr", took place on Saturday.

A senior member of the expedition – 51 year old JS Dhaliwal from the MoD ceremonial department – will have to go back home after his pulse rate and blood pressure just refused to go below the danger level.

On a lighter note, signs of altitude sickness are reducing but stray incidents still come to light. A media person on the trek has suddenly got a new disease – hysterical laughing. Even a mundane observation like "Look, the trees are green" suddenly sends her in splits, much to the amusement of other members. Doctors say these symptoms would go away once the cold Siachen breeze shivers her bones.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 14 Oct 2008 08:27

X-posted from space thread:
Gerard wrote:
The new path to space: India and China enter the game


Quote:
During the panel discussion, several members of the audience asked Kasturirangan and two of his colleagues questions about the Indian space program. His colleagues included S. Chandrashekar, a professor of corporate strategy at the Indian Institute of Management in Bangalore, as well as a 20-year veteran of ISRO. Chandrashekar’s recent work at NIAS includes an assessment of Pakistani and Chinese ballistic missile capabilities. In response to a question about Pakistan’s missiles he said that it is clear that they are not entirely based upon Chinese technology and that Pakistan clearly has significant ballistic missile design expertise of its own. Chandrashekar also said that his assessment of China’s missiles disagrees with that of the United States. For instance, he said that while the Americans have concluded that the Chinese DF-5 ICBM is a two-stage missile, his group has concluded that it is actually a three-stage missile. His research also disagrees with the American assessment of China’s newer DF-31 ICBM.

Is the bolded part about Pakis having significant ballastic missile expertise true?? :eek:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby abhischekcc » 14 Oct 2008 10:42

Arun_S's post on Kartikeyan being in Siachen is significant. I mean the guvrmand istrying its best to dress it as a picnic, but my crystal balls tell me that he has gone there to 'soak up the atmosphere' for a different purpose.

>>The motivation being to see the working conditions of soldiers for whom he designs missile systems.
Which IA unit in Siachen is going to use missiles :lol:

OTOH, the media lady is probably suffering from low oxygen in her brain which keeps her laughing like The Joker. Frankly, media people are vacuous north of their ears anyway :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 14 Oct 2008 12:11

sum wrote:X-posted from space thread:
Gerard wrote:
The new path to space: India and China enter the game


Quote:
During the panel discussion, several members of the audience asked Kasturirangan and two of his colleagues questions about the Indian space program. His colleagues included S. Chandrashekar, a professor of corporate strategy at the Indian Institute of Management in Bangalore, as well as a 20-year veteran of ISRO. Chandrashekar’s recent work at NIAS includes an assessment of Pakistani and Chinese ballistic missile capabilities. In response to a question about Pakistan’s missiles he said that it is clear that they are not entirely based upon Chinese technology and that Pakistan clearly has significant ballistic missile design expertise of its own. Chandrashekar also said that his assessment of China’s missiles disagrees with that of the United States. For instance, he said that while the Americans have concluded that the Chinese DF-5 ICBM is a two-stage missile, his group has concluded that it is actually a three-stage missile. His research also disagrees with the American assessment of China’s newer DF-31 ICBM.

Is the bolded part about Pakis having significant ballastic missile expertise true?? :eek:


Fellow Picketien "sum", here is a cross post on the subject from another thread:
Arun_S wrote:Firstly I know that Prof S. Chandrashekar's group is very capable. Believe his group has been using ROCKSIM for quite some time now ;).
Prof S. Chandrashekar mentioned sometime ago that BR website has been a useful site for them to do their studies on Paki and Chinee missiles.

I & BR big-Boss treasure few photos with the team and Dr.Kasturirangan during last Aero India.

My recommendation is that what ever Prof S. Chandrashekar's group says on Pakistani and Chinese missiles is the most credible assessment, that even I will not argue against. I have a printed copy of that paper, somewhere is my messy pile. The group under Prof S. Chandrashekar's are so to say "trade professionals, engineers, scientist and strategists". A very good meeting of minds and mutual respect with his group ;)

In Picketien lingo: Usko nakko ignore kanay-ka.

Think of dealing with it, E.g. arousing the Pakis and then cutting off the offending organ with a KLPD. :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Singha » 14 Oct 2008 12:25

chipanda has another and less-blowback TOT channel in operation. retired/free ukrainian,russian,
byelorussian minds go and work freelance in North Korea and then Noko sells the technology
to iran, pak, syria. this takes care of the design and some critical items.

the manufacturing tech can be TOTed from chipanda under various covers, there is always
legitimate machinery and tools purchases going on between countries.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 14 Oct 2008 12:56

Arun_S wrote:
Firstly I know that Prof S. Chandrashekar's group is very capable. Believe his group has been using ROCKSIM for quite some time now ;).
Prof S. Chandrashekar mentioned sometime ago that BR website has been a useful site for them to do their studies on Paki and Chinee missiles.

I & BR big-Boss treasure few photos with the team and Dr.Kasturirangan during last Aero India.

My recommendation is that what ever Prof S. Chandrashekar's group says on Pakistani and Chinese missiles is the most credible assessment, that even I will not argue against. I have a printed copy of that paper, somewhere is my messy pile. The group under Prof S. Chandrashekar's are so to say "trade professionals, engineers, scientist and strategists". A very good meeting of minds and mutual respect with his group ;)

In Picketien lingo: Usko nakko ignore kanay-ka.

Think of dealing with it, E.g. arousing the Pakis and then cutting off the offending organ with a KLPD. :twisted:

Arun guru, i had read that part about prof.Chandrasekhar being a top gun in missile studies.

Thats why im surprised that he mentions that paki ballistic tech is pretty good and bit of it is "homegrown". From whatever i had seen in BR till now, the impression was that the only indigenous Paki contribution was the green paint!!!

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 14 Oct 2008 13:34

sum wrote:Arun guru, i had read that part about prof.Chandrasekhar being a top gun in missile studies.

Thats why im surprised that he mentions that paki ballistic tech is pretty good and bit of it is "homegrown". From whatever i had seen in BR till now, the impression was that the only indigenous Paki contribution was the green paint!!!

BRF also spins Psy-ops, dont be mesmerized by your own spell. As Mrs B.Kaur will say "If wishes had wings Pigs will fly".

For me it takes lots of conscious effort to keep separate facts from analysis and fiction. Not all Pakis are idiots, and rocket science is no more a mystique it used to be few decades ago. As I heard a senior instructors in Dundigal say: "Even a monkey can be taught to fly (a plane)". Bakis still have a baaki way to go before they reach Monkey state capable of eating green and painting green.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Prabu » 14 Oct 2008 16:07

Arun Garu,

What happend to teh supposed test of AGNI III + / IV,. WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE TESTED BY END OF 2008 ? DID WE WAITING FOR 123 deal ?? or to be timed after Chandrayan I ?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby asbchakri » 14 Oct 2008 17:03

Prabu wrote:Arun Garu,

What happend to teh supposed test of AGNI III + / IV,. WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE TESTED BY END OF 2008 ? DID WE WAITING FOR 123 deal ?? or to be timed after Chandrayan I ?


Technically i dont think there is any reason for us to wait for Chandrayan-1, but maybe they might wait until Chandrayan is launced sucessfully before testing. As for 123 agreement since it is cleared, i dont hink that would cause any hurdles. :)

Actually did they give any specific date for launch?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 14 Oct 2008 20:39

Arun_S wrote:
sum wrote:Arun guru, i had read that part about prof.Chandrasekhar being a top gun in missile studies.

Thats why im surprised that he mentions that paki ballistic tech is pretty good and bit of it is "homegrown". From whatever i had seen in BR till now, the impression was that the only indigenous Paki contribution was the green paint!!!

BRF also spins Psy-ops, dont be mesmerized by your own spell. As Mrs B.Kaur will say "If wishes had wings Pigs will fly".

For me it takes lots of conscious effort to keep separate facts from analysis and fiction. Not all Pakis are idiots, and rocket science is no more a mystique it used to be few decades ago. As I heard a senior instructors in Dundigal say: "Even a monkey can be taught to fly (a plane)". Bakis still have a baaki way to go before they reach Monkey state capable of eating green and painting green.

Thanks for that myth-bursting post,Arun guru...
It would be great if you could give a link or pointer to any paper giving the true picture of Paki missile capabilities in a objective and honest fashion...The link to NIAS site seems to be down. :(

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby hnair » 14 Oct 2008 21:26

Arun_S wrote:
The group under Prof S. Chandrashekar's are so to say "trade professionals, engineers, scientist and strategists". A very good meeting of minds and mutual respect with his group ;)

In Picketien lingo: Usko nakko ignore kanay-ka.

Think of dealing with it, E.g. arousing the Pakis and then cutting off the offending organ with a KLPD. :twisted:


Aye, since we are firmly at the high table, we too need our version of Brookings/Cato/Rands etc, that scare the daylights out of both our political-policy making establishment, as well as keeping a semblance of credibility for the Paki nation. Better the pakis being impotent yet happy in paper than impotent and wretched in reality.

I say we need a Carlo Kopp grade analyst for every wish list item we have :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby p_saggu » 14 Oct 2008 23:18

What is the Agni V ?
I thought that the Agni IV was A3 + 3rd stage (BRF : 51 tons, 17 meters, 8100 Km)

DRDO says they are not testing A4 but going on to A5.

Please enlighten.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 14 Oct 2008 23:24

There is no Agni-4 only Agni-5 (5000km). Maybe Agni-3SL is Agni-4 :wink: :wink:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Gerard » 15 Oct 2008 02:20

link
Avinash Chander, Director of the Laboratory under DRDO, explained that the ASL already maintains a composites production centre (Comproc) responsible for the fabrication of lightweight missile material. However, Chander noted that the ASL wanted to make "all the stages of the Agni missile composite structured."

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Avinash R » 17 Oct 2008 21:44

Breakthrough tech to increase range of high speed missiles

Scientists from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, have developed a new technology for increasing the range of high speed space vehicles including missiles.

"This technology reduces drag of high speed space vehicles which dictates the range of the missile for a given amount of fuel," Prof K P J Reddy of Department of Aerospace Engineering. "The thrust generated by the rocket engine must compensate for the drag encountered by the missile in its path," he said. "This technology involving spray coating of the high speed missiles and other space vehicles can be used in the existing stockpile of missiles," Reddy, leading a team of scientists who developed it, said.

"This method will ensure that without spending any additional energy the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle can be controlled and this in turn will improve the efficiency of the hypersonic flight of the vehicle. This is a very attractive technique for controlling aerodynamic drag of the vehicles flying at hypersonic Mach numbers," Reddy said in the recent issue of Physics of Fluids Journal.

The technology has been demonstrated by the scientists Vijay Kulkarni, G M Hegde, G Jagdeesh and E Arunan of the high enthalpy aerodynamics laboratory in the Department of Aerospace Engineering.The IISc scientists have got Indian patent for the technology, Reddy said.

The main advantages of this innovative hypersonic drag control techniques are that it is a completely passive device that is non-intrusive and does not need any additional power during the actual flight to control the aerodynamic drag of the missile flying at hypersonic speeds.

Also, the amount of heat energy released into the shock layer of the body can be altered to suitably control the aerodynamic drag of the hypersonic vehicle.

The nose of the missile is essentially blunted in order to reduce the heating problem but the drag encountered by the blunt bodies when they travel at hypersonic speeds (five to six times the speed of sound approximately 2 km per second) is larger, he said, adding hence one way of increasing the range of the missile or any vehicle is to reduce the drag force.

The new method involves a radically different technique in the sense that no additional device or power is required for controlling the aerodynamic drag in the proposed technique during the actual hypersonic flight, Reddy said. The technique is to coat the nose portion of the missile with a thin layer of material such as chromium, the aero scientist said.

This metal coating evaporates due to the heating of the missile nose or vehicle during its hypersonic flight and the evaporated metal particles in atomic form react exothermically with the oxygen atoms surrounding the body to release additional heat into the air in front of the missile. This heat addition reduces the drag force up to about 47 per cent, he said.

In fluid dynamics, drag is the force that resists the movement of a solid object through a fluid. For a solid object moving through a fluid, the drag is the component of the net aerodynamic or hydrodynamic force.

One of the features of the new method is that it is expected to enhance the commercially viability of the technology. In addition, this technique will also be useful for development of space vehicles which consume lesser fuels and thus reduce the cost of space travel in future, Reddy added.

Asked how it can be considered a breakthrough, Reddy said, the existing techniques for reducing the drag force involve addition of an aero spike at the nose of the missile or blowing a supersonic gas jet from the missile nose tip.

Implementation of these techniques involves major modification to the missile structure and hence cannot be applied to existing missiles which are in stockpile, he said.

While in the new technology developed by IISc, straight away you can spray the existing missiles or space craft without doing any modification, he added.
Last edited by Avinash R on 17 Oct 2008 22:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 17 Oct 2008 21:53

please provide the link and avoid posting in full if possible. copyright issues ! :)
btw, this has been reported before.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Avinash R » 17 Oct 2008 22:03

Rahul M wrote:please provide the link and avoid posting in full if possible. copyright issues ! :)

no copyrights. they are paid by our taxes.
link added.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Katare » 17 Oct 2008 22:31

This is just professor talking with big mouth based on lab/paper research/modeling IMO. It would require a very significant amount of metal (several pounds at least) on nose to generate enough heat with exothermic oxidation of metal into metal oxide to have any significant heating of atmospheric gases around nose. If that is done than there is a weight penalty. Making coating that thick which would not crumble/peel off due to stress is next to impossible except with very exotic methods. The amount of energy that is needed to control drag can only be provided with re-channeling a part of the exhaust into the shock wave which is free energy available at the exhaust.

If they have invented a composite metal that has significantly higher exothermic reaction with O2 than elemental chrome/Aluminum than I would have classified it as very significant.

It is good research and good patent but as of now that's about it.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 17 Oct 2008 22:32

This news report is more complete and free of DDM, compared to earlier report on the subject.

My observations as below:
Avinash R wrote:Breakthrough tech to increase range of high speed missiles

Scientists from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, have developed a new technology for increasing the range of high speed space vehicles including missiles.

"This technology reduces drag of high speed space vehicles which dictates the range of the missile for a given amount of fuel," Prof K P J Reddy of Department of Aerospace Engineering. "The thrust generated by the rocket engine must compensate for the drag encountered by the missile in its path," he said. "This technology involving spray coating of the high speed missiles and other space vehicles can be used in the existing stockpile of missiles," Reddy, leading a team of scientists who developed it, said.
Very true.
"This method will ensure that without spending any additional energy the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle can be controlled and this in turn will improve the efficiency of the hypersonic flight of the vehicle. This is a very attractive technique for controlling aerodynamic drag of the vehicles flying at hypersonic Mach numbers," Reddy said in the recent issue of Physics of Fluids Journal.

The technology has been demonstrated by the scientists Vijay Kulkarni, G M Hegde, G Jagdeesh and E Arunan of the high enthalpy aerodynamics laboratory in the Department of Aerospace Engineering.The IISc scientists have got Indian patent for the technology, Reddy said.
Excellent. Protecting IP for a change.

The main advantages of this innovative hypersonic drag control techniques are that it is a completely passive device that is non-intrusive and does not need any additional power during the actual flight to control the aerodynamic drag of the missile flying at hypersonic speeds.

Also, the amount of heat energy released into the shock layer of the body can be altered to suitably control the aerodynamic drag of the hypersonic vehicle.
yes, will be very relevant in Avatar design.

The nose of the missile is essentially blunted in order to reduce the heating problem but the drag encountered by the blunt bodies when they travel at hypersonic speeds (five to six times the speed of sound approximately 2 km per second) is larger, he said, adding hence one way of increasing the range of the missile or any vehicle is to reduce the drag force.
Yes that is the reason not only RV but nose tip of Avatar although made of Carbon composite the shape is blunted to generate a separating shock wave that pushes the hot plasma away from missile body.

The new method involves a radically different technique in the sense that no additional device or power is required for controlling the aerodynamic drag in the proposed technique during the actual hypersonic flight, Reddy said. The technique is to coat the nose portion of the missile with a thin layer of material such as chromium, the aero scientist said.

This metal coating evaporates due to the heating of the missile nose or vehicle during its hypersonic flight and the evaporated metal particles in atomic form react exothermically with the oxygen atoms surrounding the body to release additional heat into the air in front of the missile. This heat addition reduces the drag force up to about 47 per cent, he said.
Surely heating the incident air will reduce drag. But this process essentially consumes the chromium metal, so the thin film will be expended quickly (yet he talks of just spray coating a film !!! ). it is not clear how much of current heat shield and structural mass of the nose can be substituted with chromium?

One of the features of the new method is that it is expected to enhance the commercially viability of the technology. In addition, this technique will also be useful for development of space vehicles which consume lesser fuels and thus reduce the cost of space travel in future, Reddy added.

Asked how it can be considered a breakthrough, Reddy said, the existing techniques for reducing the drag force involve addition of an aero spike at the nose of the missile or blowing a supersonic gas jet from the missile nose tip.

Implementation of these techniques involves major modification to the missile structure and hence cannot be applied to existing missiles which are in stockpile, he said.
Irrespective of its potential drawbacks, this tech will definitely help Agni-SL. If one can get rid of need for mechanical contraption called aero-spike and the other constrain aerospike puts on the small upper motor, the range and reliability will be significantly superior. .

While in the new technology developed by IISc, straight away you can spray the existing missiles or space craft without doing any modification, he added.
Well this the million dollar question. Will just spraying the missile with a thin film carry enough chromium mass to generate the heat for the duration of many minutes of hypersonic flight?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Katare » 17 Oct 2008 23:20

Aurn,

Based on the information given in the article, answer of your last question is no. The heat generated in reaction of chrome oxidation is miniscule as compared to the ~2000C temp generated by drag and the heat value of missile fuel. It would help but a thin or even several micron/mil thick chrome layer would not have enough mass to generate enough heat as compared to drag losses.

Now there may be more to it than what the article reveals like the heat generated right at the surface of missile may be more effective or incremental heat (over drag generated temps) having exponential effects etc.

Long back I was involved in synthesizing passivated aluminum particles for rocket/missile fuels, which is a well known and practiced art. The concept was to make aluminum particles with equal mass distribution but several sizes ranging from nanometer to 1000micron in aerodynamic diameter. When mixed with fuel these particles would burn/oxidize at a different distance from the nozzle depending on their size. Smaller nanosize particles would burn closest and largest would burn furthest but since total mass of all sizes was equal they would generate same heat giving a more uniform or tailored plume. The project was abandoned due severe safety concerns but a similar mechanism may be in play here. Chrome is chosen over aluminum probably because of its much better adhesion properties than almost any other metal. At drag temp the chrome layer may emit atomic particles (sorta like sputtering) giving a tailored heating zone in front of the nose?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby narmad » 23 Oct 2008 23:13

IAF conducts missile simulation
By Aharon Etengoff @ Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:55 AM

The DRDO and Indian Air Force have successfully conducted a missile target simulation exercise.

The Russian-manufactured missile reportedly locked onto and destroyed a tow body suspended from a micro-light aircraft (MCLA). "First the MCLA, also known as unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was flown from the launching complex-II of the ITR. After making two laps it released a tow body, which was targeted by the missile fired from a Sukhoi-30 lifted up from Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal," explained an anonymous defence official.
Which missile is this report talking about ?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 23 Oct 2008 23:32


Singha
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Singha » 23 Oct 2008 23:52

wow - very good reporting onlee - 4km range cutting edge AAM. they might get better
results with the WSO using a 0.22 sako hunting rifle :mrgreen:

seriously we should take a good look at Sako for sniper rifles. enjoys a good rep
as a finely machined maker of hunting rifles. matched with Lapua ammo (not OFB
for sniping please!) can be a lethal combo.

http://www.sako.fi/sakotrgmodels.php?trg22

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vipins » 23 Oct 2008 23:56

same news with a pic

Image

this looks like akash :?: :?: ...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby narayana » 24 Oct 2008 08:24

narmad wrote:IAF conducts missile simulation
By Aharon Etengoff @ Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:55 AM

The DRDO and Indian Air Force have successfully conducted a missile target simulation exercise.

The Russian-manufactured missile reportedly locked onto and destroyed a tow body suspended from a micro-light aircraft (MCLA). "First the MCLA, also known as unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was flown from the launching complex-II of the ITR. After making two laps it released a tow body, which was targeted by the missile fired from a Sukhoi-30 lifted up from Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal," explained an anonymous defence official.
Which missile is this report talking about ?


They Mentioned "Russian Made Missile" but didnt spell out the name,this "anonymous" missile was fired from "SU-30 MKI" do all these point to KH-172 :)

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Singha » 24 Oct 2008 08:48

my guess - a new improved version of the archer. sorely needed to match the aim9x, asraam and python5.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Mihir.D » 24 Oct 2008 11:43

Singha wrote:my guess - a new improved version of the archer. sorely needed to match the aim9x, asraam and python5.


Aren't the Python5 and AsRaam available to India ? This is not counting the Mica-IR. The python5 is already in the IAFs arsenal. Perhaps the "Russian" thing is only to SDRE way of confusing people. It might have been the Python5 fired from Su-30MKI.

BTW... I have a question.. Are the Pythons coming as a part of SPYDER same as the air launched Python

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 24 Oct 2008 12:37

Are python-5's integrated with mig-29's or 21's? I assumed python-5 was for MKI's and mirages while ASRAAM will come after M2k upgrades.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sarang » 24 Oct 2008 12:58

I don't think DRDO will make efforts to test a already proven design. They can simply say 'design validation' of certain type like they did with 73's and 77's on MiG-29's sometime back. I think it is a new untested design or at least untested after integrating Indian components.

JMT,
Sarang :)


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