Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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Neilz
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Neilz » 25 Jan 2009 13:10

^^^^

Yup exactly that was our thought. But I am wondering how come DRDO guys talk so openly about this. Especially the detail they said how the target was placed, how the decoy was implemented, nature of decoys, how it missed. May be am a newB, but I still wonder if we should discuss this in open forum like this.

Bcoz after reading the detail even a less knowledgeable person like me can understand exactly what DRDO trying to achieve by "rectifying the small issue".

And my biggest surprise is that this came straight from a DRDO person on defense expo to an unknown person/visitor. How can they give such detail info on a missile test. Which revel some of the specification of the missile itself. God forbid but if any enemy agent get some innocent DOSTI with any of these scientist then they can get half the blueprint of the missile in drawing room chat. :-?

mods I think you should have a relook to all the related post regarding this info. :idea:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Shishir P » 25 Jan 2009 14:16

Even my point is the same.......can a DRDO guy tell something in detail or was just trying to tell some crap....
But it could also be because he was frustrated answering silly questions like why use launcher for a missile n that they have not seen forein missile launchers......just 290 thats bad :rotfl: ....wat is cruise missle....why not use nuclear missile as US does :P ...etc....probably I asked questions which he dint expect even from student @iitb....he looked eager to answer my questions.....took me @ a distance away from junta...negelcted the rest......FYI the display is there for today n tomo too @ IITB KV grounds......other exhibits from DRDO
--Light Armoured wheeled vehicle
--Daksh Robo( two versions)
--Arjun BLT(as per them First time on display)
--Lakshya
--Some UAV looked like a a basic make urself model with different engines
--Insas (assault, with grenade launcher, LMG)
--Modern sub machine carbine with MARS sight(a beauty.....allowed me to hold it :lol: )
--Nag n Prithvi warhead mock ups(as per them some pune lab of DRDO has made vaccume bomb for prithvi :twisted: )
--EW components(samyukta)
--BFSR
--explosive detection kit

Each display had a different person from respective lab.....spent quite a time @each display
I have brouchers of some......n if someone needs further info i can ask them...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Shishir P » 25 Jan 2009 14:18

I will be posting details of each of them in respective forums

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Shishir P » 25 Jan 2009 14:21

heres the techfest link--
http://techfest.org/exhibitions/drdo/

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 25 Jan 2009 14:42

neilz, nothing in this that shouldn't be out in the open.
we would have pounced on it otherwise. DRDO guys do know how much to reveal, one reason why we don't get such detail usually is the paucity of good journos among DDM.

@ shishir, in case you/a friend of yours visit again, may I request you to get as much info as possible about the INSAS and variants and the MSMC ??

especially if MSMC has been accepted and production plans(factory, OFB or not) if any ?

thanks a lot in advance.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Shishir P » 25 Jan 2009 15:12

I can visit again im a student here....but tomo im going home to watch the parade peacefully away from pop loving tech freek :evil:

@ Rahul hey nothing new other then wat BR knows....MSMC is still in devlopment.....theres Zitara also but its a different program in DRDO.....they had a video palying in background of MSMG looked very impressive n comfy

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Gerard » 25 Jan 2009 19:20

Air defence drill in February
For the first time the target missile will be fired from a ship in the Bay of Bengal and the interceptor, which will be fired from the Wheelers Island, located off the Orissa coast, would kill the target outside the atmosphere.
This time an attempt would be made to destroy a long range missile at an altitude of nearly 80 km. The enemy missile will be a modified version of Dhanush,’’ said a source in the integrated test range (ITR) at Chandipur.
‘‘The exo-atmospheric missile, which has been renamed ‘Pradyumna’ has a killing probability of above 99 percent. It can also carry a warhead of about 25 kg

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 25 Jan 2009 22:12

Please find out more about the vacuum warhead for Prithvi. What they are refrring o si the thermobaric warhead like the earth penetrators used in Afghanistan. So to mate one for Prtihvi means it will have earth penetrating role. Earlier some journos were fed the line that was a deficiency. You kow the ex-Major who used to write about Prithivi etc in Janes.

Arun_S some one is reading thoughts!



A link to google videos on Brahmos tests

Might already be known.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sum » 25 Jan 2009 23:27

Air defence drill in Feb

Isn't there a mega difference between a "air defence drill" and a "BMD drill"? :-?

Damn DDM...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vasu_ray » 26 Jan 2009 02:22

This might be already on the cards, Brahmos class missile converted to a reusable missile, which has 'F-117 kind' of bay doors, delivers bomb payloads at predetermined points at high mach and returns to recovery base landing on a 1-2 meter wide magnetic rail mounted on a
tractor trailer, airfield or a water channel. Payloads can be JDAMs or have their own seekers if released at high altitude or have high kinetic punch at low altitude. The payload can be tailored based on the target(s) and range. Re-arming and propellant refill can be quick.

There, you already have a 1 ton payload UCAV with 150-200 km range and economic enough.

or once the missile has traveled the g stresses have already taken their toll that its not usable again?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Shishir P » 26 Jan 2009 19:45

@Ramana : Vaccum bomb, air feul explosives and thermobaric bomb are essentially same , they are just explosives and not the earth penetrators. Earth penetration is done by strenthening the shell which carries the explosives(Tungsten + Carbon composites in case of US bunker busters) and using delayed fuse which burn when the shell reaches required depth.

When i had asked the drdo guy explaining prithvi warheads about the thermobaric technology he just said "one of our lab in pune has that"

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Baljeet » 26 Jan 2009 19:54

Shishir
I hope that is true, not just the technology but a tried and tested product. A product that is accepted by IAF and IN. In case of war with pakis whenever that happens, thermobaric bomb will become very handy in wiping out Sargodha AF Base, Rawalpindi, chaklala.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 26 Jan 2009 21:57

India’s missile defense: changing the nature of the Indo-Pakistani conflict by Taylor Dinerman: The Space Review

During a panel talk at New York’s Asia Society on January 21, Professor Ashutosh Varshney of Brown University claimed that some “right wing” forces in the US and India were interested in seeing Pakistan break up and that they imagined that somehow India would be able to “neuter the nukes” and prevent them from getting into unfriendly hands, something he considered highly risky and likely to lead to catastrophe. During the same event former Pakistani diplomat Munir Akram claimed that any war between India and Pakistan would escalate uncontrollably and go nuclear quite quickly.
Even if they give missile defense a big budget and a high priority, it will be many years before India has a moderately effective, indigenous missile defense shield.

At this moment, they are both right. The India-Pakistan nuclear stand-off is stalemated to Pakistan’s advantage, in that they can launch (or allow) terror attacks such as the November 2008 one on Mumbai and India can do essentially nothing in response. The unmistakable smugness of the former Pakistani diplomat made this evident. However, this situation will not last forever. India is now seeking way to neutralize the majority of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and within a decade or perhaps a little longer they may come up with a solution.

In 2006 India began testing a missile defense version of its Prithvi medium-range ballistic missile. This test is just one sign that New Delhi is seeking to develop a multi-layer complex that can defend against Pakistan’s nuclear missiles. Due to its liquid-fueled first stage, the Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) is certainly not an ideal system, but it is both available and locally made. The Indian military is comfortable enough with this weapon’s effectiveness to make it their main battlefield ballistic missile for both conventional and nuclear applications.

Even if they give missile defense a big budget and a high priority, it will be many years before India has a moderately effective, indigenous missile defense shield. The claim last year by the head of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) that they will have a multi-layered system ready in 2010 is taken with a grain of salt by observers both inside and outside the subcontinent. However, unless the geopolitical situation radically changes, there is no doubt that India will continue work on the systems for the foreseeable future.

If they wanted to they could buy systems from the US, Israel, or Russia, and they have already bought themselves a pair of Israeli Green Pine radars originally designed for the Arrow ABM system. If they were ready to spend the money they could combine, for example, the US PAC 3 version of the Patriot with the Israeli Arrow and have an effective but limited defense system within a fairly short timeframe. While the US may have blocked India from buying the Israeli system in the past, this no longer would be the case.

What is more likely, though, is that they will continue to build up their own technology while procuring a few items from overseas and entering into collaborative development programs with carefully selected foreign firms. The hard part may not be the interceptors themselves but building up the network of sensors and command and control systems needed to make the whole thing credible.

One requirement will be for some sort of space based early warning system to supplement the powerful long-range radars they will have to deploy both in the air and in the western Himalaya mountains. India is lucky in that it does have a few good places where it could place radars that, if they were powerful enough, could cover most of the possible launch sites. But they will still need satellites to cover the whole of Pakistan and to provide a secure and unambiguous warning of a launch event.

India could, if they wanted to, gain access to the US DSP (Defense Support Program) and SBIRS (Space Based Infra Red System) information the same way that NATO, Israel, Japan, and South Korea all have this data available to one degree or another. However, given the history of the subcontinent, and the shaky basis on which the new US-India relationship rests, the government may not be willing to put its trust in Washington’s goodwill.

They may choose to build their own heat detecting satellites. The IRS (Indian Remote Sensing) and Cartosat series of remote sensing spacecraft have given India some of the expertise required to build an equivalent of the DSP. Such a system does not have to be as heavy or as sophisticated as the US one; it could, in fact, consist of a larger number of small satellites in low Earth orbit. This would certainly be expensive by Indian standards and would take at least as long to develop and deploy as the indigenous interceptor missiles themselves.
India could, if they wanted to, gain access to the US DSP and SBIRS information, but given the history of the subcontinent, and the shaky basis on which the new US-India relationship rests, the government may not be willing to put its trust in Washington’s goodwill.

Another factor that will add to the expense of this project is the fact that India is a big country and will need a fairly large number of long-range and short-range BMD missiles. The better that they can do in the boost phase the better off they will be, but there are few signs that they, or anyone else except the US, are seriously looking at this capability.

As long as India vigorously pursues this capability it will put Pakistan into the same kind of dilemma that faced the Soviet Union after President Reagan announced the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) program in March 1983. Islamabad has neither the resources nor the technology to compete with India in this field. Indian missile defense will not, by itself, prevent a Pakistani “loose nuke” situation, but it will reduce the value of their atomic stockpile.

They also lack the resources to build up a very large and diverse force of reliable, sophisticated, nuclear-tipped missiles that could overwhelm an effective Indian defense system. If they tried to build such a force they would either have to weaken their already limited conventional defense forces or spend themselves into economic oblivion. India’s robust and growing economy is a strategic asset that is slowly but surely making itself felt in the military balance between the two subcontinental rivals.

Taylor Dinerman is an author and journalist based in New York City.


Another 10 years. Then TSP will be left with no more grass to eat, as it will bite the dust. :)

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 26 Jan 2009 22:31

I find a Truck which towed Agni 3 missile was parked on the roadside near Old fort opposite Zoo during rehearsal days [i don't remember date] in delhi my quick view some kind of vehicle trouble.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Jan 2009 00:27

Shishir P wrote:I can visit again im a student here....but tomo im going home to watch the parade peacefully away from pop loving tech freek :evil:

@ Rahul hey nothing new other then wat BR knows....MSMC is still in devlopment.....theres Zitara also but its a different program in DRDO.....they had a video palying in background of MSMG looked very impressive n comfy


Can you please tell what you mean by "its a different program in DRDO?" you mean to say drdo is working on some other bullpub rifle apart from msmc & zitara?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Kailash » 27 Jan 2009 01:08


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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 27 Jan 2009 01:28

RajeshA wrote:India’s missile defense: changing the nature of the Indo-Pakistani conflict by Taylor Dinerman: The Space Review

During a panel talk at New York’s Asia Society on January 21, Professor Ashutosh Varshney of Brown University claimed that some “right wing” forces in the US and India were interested in seeing Pakistan break up and that they imagined that somehow India would be able to “neuter the nukes” and prevent them from getting into unfriendly hands, something he considered highly risky and likely to lead to catastrophe. During the same event former Pakistani diplomat Munir Akram claimed that any war between India and Pakistan would escalate uncontrollably and go nuclear quite quickly.
Even if they give missile defense a big budget and a high priority, it will be many years before India has a moderately effective, indigenous missile defense shield.

At this moment, they are both right. The India-Pakistan nuclear stand-off is stalemated to Pakistan’s advantage, in that they can launch (or allow) terror attacks such as the November 2008 one on Mumbai and India can do essentially nothing in response. The unmistakable smugness of the former Pakistani diplomat made this evident. However, this situation will not last forever. India is now seeking way to neutralize the majority of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons and within a decade or perhaps a little longer they may come up with a solution.

In 2006 India began testing a missile defense version of its Prithvi medium-range ballistic missile. This test is just one sign that New Delhi is seeking to develop a multi-layer complex that can defend against Pakistan’s nuclear missiles. Due to its liquid-fueled first stage, the Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) is certainly not an ideal system, but it is both available and locally made. The Indian military is comfortable enough with this weapon’s effectiveness to make it their main battlefield ballistic missile for both conventional and nuclear applications.

Even if they give missile defense a big budget and a high priority, it will be many years before India has a moderately effective, indigenous missile defense shield. The claim last year by the head of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) that they will have a multi-layered system ready in 2010 is taken with a grain of salt by observers both inside and outside the subcontinent. However, unless the geopolitical situation radically changes, there is no doubt that India will continue work on the systems for the foreseeable future.

If they wanted to they could buy systems from the US, Israel, or Russia, and they have already bought themselves a pair of Israeli Green Pine radars originally designed for the Arrow ABM system. If they were ready to spend the money they could combine, for example, the US PAC 3 version of the Patriot with the Israeli Arrow and have an effective but limited defense system within a fairly short timeframe. While the US may have blocked India from buying the Israeli system in the past, this no longer would be the case.

What is more likely, though, is that they will continue to build up their own technology while procuring a few items from overseas and entering into collaborative development programs with carefully selected foreign firms. The hard part may not be the interceptors themselves but building up the network of sensors and command and control systems needed to make the whole thing credible.

One requirement will be for some sort of space based early warning system to supplement the powerful long-range radars they will have to deploy both in the air and in the western Himalaya mountains. India is lucky in that it does have a few good places where it could place radars that, if they were powerful enough, could cover most of the possible launch sites. But they will still need satellites to cover the whole of Pakistan and to provide a secure and unambiguous warning of a launch event.

India could, if they wanted to, gain access to the US DSP (Defense Support Program) and SBIRS (Space Based Infra Red System) information the same way that NATO, Israel, Japan, and South Korea all have this data available to one degree or another. However, given the history of the subcontinent, and the shaky basis on which the new US-India relationship rests, the government may not be willing to put its trust in Washington’s goodwill.

They may choose to build their own heat detecting satellites. The IRS (Indian Remote Sensing) and Cartosat series of remote sensing spacecraft have given India some of the expertise required to build an equivalent of the DSP. Such a system does not have to be as heavy or as sophisticated as the US one; it could, in fact, consist of a larger number of small satellites in low Earth orbit. This would certainly be expensive by Indian standards and would take at least as long to develop and deploy as the indigenous interceptor missiles themselves.
India could, if they wanted to, gain access to the US DSP and SBIRS information, but given the history of the subcontinent, and the shaky basis on which the new US-India relationship rests, the government may not be willing to put its trust in Washington’s goodwill.

Another factor that will add to the expense of this project is the fact that India is a big country and will need a fairly large number of long-range and short-range BMD missiles. The better that they can do in the boost phase the better off they will be, but there are few signs that they, or anyone else except the US, are seriously looking at this capability.

As long as India vigorously pursues this capability it will put Pakistan into the same kind of dilemma that faced the Soviet Union after President Reagan announced the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) program in March 1983. Islamabad has neither the resources nor the technology to compete with India in this field. Indian missile defense will not, by itself, prevent a Pakistani “loose nuke” situation, but it will reduce the value of their atomic stockpile.

They also lack the resources to build up a very large and diverse force of reliable, sophisticated, nuclear-tipped missiles that could overwhelm an effective Indian defense system. If they tried to build such a force they would either have to weaken their already limited conventional defense forces or spend themselves into economic oblivion. India’s robust and growing economy is a strategic asset that is slowly but surely making itself felt in the military balance between the two subcontinental rivals.

Taylor Dinerman is an author and journalist based in New York City.


Another 10 years. Then TSP will be left with no more grass to eat, as it will bite the dust. :)


The following paragraph is from an article by yours faithfully in next issue (January-2009) of "India Defense Review" :
WAY TO A CREDIBLE DETERRENT
... .. . . Detection
First and foremost is the authentication of the first strike- whether it really is nuclear, where it came from and who is responsible.

The first requires highly mobile units spread across the nation that can quickly sample the air to determine if a nuclear attack has occurred by using on-board equipment to analyze fallout residue. Analysis of the atomic signature of fissile nuclear material used in the attack will narrow down the nationality/pedigree of nuclear weapon.

An attack by challenger nation-state will very likely involve ballistic missile or air-cruising vehicle. Missile launch detection by a constellation of space bourn optical/IR sensors is a highly effective method to locate the launch point and source of nuclear missile. A compliment of 3 - 4 satellites in geo-synchronous orbits and 4 - 5 more satellite in medium earth orbit can reliably locate missile launch from land or sea that can also feed Indian ABM sensor network. These satellites of between 900 - 1,200 kg mass can serve other military functions (E.g. communication and ELINT). India has proven capability to build and lunch such satellites . Ground based surveillance radars that are part of ABM network along the perimeter of Indian border can also locate the launch location and determine the type of hostile missile. Submarine launched missiles also leave a tell tale acoustic signature during launch, and a global array of hydrophones will increase reliability in determining the source of nuclear attack. Detection and identification of small and/or low flying cruise missile or aircraft require interlocking grid of bi-static radars and conventional mono-static radars. Bi-static radars are strategic assets and not commercially available thus it warrants urgent indigenous development.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby SKrishna » 27 Jan 2009 01:29

Arun Sir

I was eagerly waiting your update on Shaurya in BR missile section. IIRC you promised it by 26 Jan 2009. Still Waiting !!! 8)

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 27 Jan 2009 01:36

SKrishna wrote:Arun Sir

I was eagerly waiting your update on Shaurya in BR missile section. IIRC you promised it by 26 Jan 2009. Still Waiting !!! 8)

My apologies to keep you waiting. The Shourya article is being printed in the 'India Defense Review' magazine and the editor advise me to not publish that on the web before IDR does its major publicity campaign during Aero-India in Feb. So it has to wait till 15 Feb before I can put it on BR.

And people who visit AeroIndia-09 can pick up a free copy of the IDR magazine (with two articles by yours faithfully), IDR will be laid on each chair during inauguration or from Lancer Publications stall.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby m mittal » 27 Jan 2009 01:39

Any info about the hush hush Surya ICBMs...........???

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby N Jhawar » 27 Jan 2009 01:49


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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Jan 2009 01:56

i thought nag went successful and army is happy about it.. 1/2 billion gone to the frenchies..
Last edited by SaiK on 27 Jan 2009 02:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 27 Jan 2009 02:06

m mittal wrote:Any info about the hush hush Surya ICBMs...........???

there is no such thing.

saik, different system, different requirements. it's DDM confusing issues as usual.

milan is javelin equivalent, nag is hellfire equivalent. remember unkil forces have both.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby m mittal » 27 Jan 2009 02:08

Nag underwent Phase I user trials......Phase II user trials ware due in May-June 2009.

And after Nth User Trails IA will say it does not meet requirements.

Sigh!

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby N Jhawar » 27 Jan 2009 02:08

In any case, no harm in increasing our fataka-count ;-).

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rajsunder » 27 Jan 2009 02:15

SaiK wrote:i thought nag went successful and army is happy about it.. 1/2 billion gone to the frenchies..


From TOI link
This can be gauged from the fact that the latest order for 4,100 "advanced'' Milan-2T missiles with "tandem warheads'' to replenish the Army's dwindling ATGM stock comes barely a few months after the Rs 1,380-crore contract for a staggering 15,000 Konkurs-M missiles.

Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), incidentally, manufactures variants of the second-generation 2-km-range Milan and 4-km-range Konkurs ATGMs, under licence from French and Russian companies, at around Rs 4.50 lakh per unit.

things dont seem to match.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Kailash » 27 Jan 2009 04:28

rajsunder wrote:things dont seem to match.


I think you are confused between man-portable ATGMs like Konkurs-M and vehicle-mounted ATGMs like Nag.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 27 Jan 2009 06:23

Indian Missile Defence: Changing the nature of Indo-Pak Conflict - by Taylor Dinerman in The Space Review

In 2006 India began testing a missile defense version of its Prithvi medium-range ballistic missile. This test is just one sign that New Delhi is seeking to develop a multi-layer complex that can defend against Pakistan’s nuclear missiles. Due to its liquid-fueled first stage, the Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) is certainly not an ideal system, but it is both available and locally made. The Indian military is comfortable enough with this weapon’s effectiveness to make it their main battlefield ballistic missile for both conventional and nuclear applications.

Even if they give missile defense a big budget and a high priority, it will be many years before India has a moderately effective, indigenous missile defense shield. The claim last year by the head of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) that they will have a multi-layered system ready in 2010 is taken with a grain of salt by observers both inside and outside the subcontinent. However, unless the geopolitical situation radically changes, there is no doubt that India will continue work on the systems for the foreseeable future.

If they wanted to they could buy systems from the US, Israel, or Russia, and they have already bought themselves a pair of Israeli Green Pine radars originally designed for the Arrow ABM system. If they were ready to spend the money they could combine, for example, the US PAC 3 version of the Patriot with the Israeli Arrow and have an effective but limited defense system within a fairly short timeframe. While the US may have blocked India from buying the Israeli system in the past, this no longer would be the case.

What is more likely, though, is that they will continue to build up their own technology while procuring a few items from overseas and entering into collaborative development programs with carefully selected foreign firms. The hard part may not be the interceptors themselves but building up the network of sensors and command and control systems needed to make the whole thing credible.

One requirement will be for some sort of space based early warning system to supplement the powerful long-range radars they will have to deploy both in the air and in the western Himalaya mountains. India is lucky in that it does have a few good places where it could place radars that, if they were powerful enough, could cover most of the possible launch sites. But they will still need satellites to cover the whole of Pakistan and to provide a secure and unambiguous warning of a launch event.

India could, if they wanted to, gain access to the US DSP (Defense Support Program) and SBIRS (Space Based Infra Red System) information the same way that NATO, Israel, Japan, and South Korea all have this data available to one degree or another. However, given the history of the subcontinent, and the shaky basis on which the new US-India relationship rests, the government may not be willing to put its trust in Washington’s goodwill.

They may choose to build their own heat detecting satellites. The IRS (Indian Remote Sensing) and Cartosat series of remote sensing spacecraft have given India some of the expertise required to build an equivalent of the DSP. Such a system does not have to be as heavy or as sophisticated as the US one; it could, in fact, consist of a larger number of small satellites in low Earth orbit. This would certainly be expensive by Indian standards and would take at least as long to develop and deploy as the indigenous interceptor missiles themselves.

Another factor that will add to the expense of this project is the fact that India is a big country and will need a fairly large number of long-range and short-range BMD missiles. The better that they can do in the boost phase the better off they will be, but there are few signs that they, or anyone else except the US, are seriously looking at this capability.

As long as India vigorously pursues this capability it will put Pakistan into the same kind of dilemma that faced the Soviet Union after President Reagan announced the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) program in March 1983. Islamabad has neither the resources nor the technology to compete with India in this field. Indian missile defense will not, by itself, prevent a Pakistani “loose nuke” situation, but it will reduce the value of their atomic stockpile.

They also lack the resources to build up a very large and diverse force of reliable, sophisticated, nuclear-tipped missiles that could overwhelm an effective Indian defense system. If they tried to build such a force they would either have to weaken their already limited conventional defense forces or spend themselves into economic oblivion. India’s robust and growing economy is a strategic asset that is slowly but surely making itself felt in the military balance between the two subcontinental rivals.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby kit » 27 Jan 2009 06:53

Well for all that Pakistan is just another province of China.What is there to prevent the chinese from transferring ABM tech? Remember they have a lot of S300 s .. am sure they have reverse engineered it by now

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Anabhaya » 27 Jan 2009 08:42

India goes for 'urgent' purchase of anti-tank missiles

....the latest order for 4,100 "advanced'' Milan-2T missiles with "tandem warheads'' to replenish the Army's dwindling ATGM stock comes barely a few months after the Rs 1,380-crore contract for a staggering 15,000 Konkurs-M missiles.

As for the third-generation Nag ATGM, with a 4-km strike range, Army has already placed an initial order for 443 missiles and 13 Namicas (Nag missile tracked carriers). But the Nag is still to become fully operational almost two decades after it was first tested.

DRDO contends that Phase-I of Nag's user-trials were successfully completed last month, with Phase-II now slated for May-June.


Report by Rajat Pandit. Bliss to take it FWIW onlee.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 27 Jan 2009 10:18

This new is nothing but sensationalization and the unnecessary DRDO bashing. The decision for purchase of the Milan-2T was taken quite some time back. There is nothing 'emergency' about this. Maybe because the approval came in less than the usual chai-biskoot timelines, it became an 'emergency' decision.

Also, for once and for all, NAG and Milan-2T/Konkurs are not the same thing. They are poles apart. The Milans-2T will be part of the Anti-Tank sections of the Infantry Regiments. As for NAG and NAMICA, they're in different leage and will most porbably form of the Anti-Tank Units and Recce & support Regiments.

PS: Does anyone have any dope on the Konkur-M deal? 15,000 missiles is quite a big number. Could these be for the Mechanized Infantry/Gaurds units for mounting on the BMP-II?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vasu_ray » 27 Jan 2009 10:54

Brahmos-2 in 5 years time frame

http://article.wn.com/view/2007/12/30/B ... ive_years/

and hopefully they make it reusable as envisaged by Kalam

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby narayana » 27 Jan 2009 10:57

Did the russians test brahmos on their soil? they already have subs which can fire missiles,they can do a bit of modification to their subs and test it.

i dont understand why its always our effort and headache to test even after this being a joint venture,either testing in air to air mode or vertical launch testing,we are taking the extra step by sending MKIs to them to modify it for Air to Air Mode etc etc,as a JV its their responsibility also.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 27 Jan 2009 11:07

m mittal wrote:Any info about the hush hush Surya ICBMs...........???

Richard Speier parked the surya in drdo's backyard but then forgot to test-launch them.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 27 Jan 2009 11:11

vasu_ray wrote:Brahmos-2 in 5 years time frame

and hopefully they make it reusable as envisaged by Kalam

I dont recall kalam making any comments regarding brahmos being used as reusable vehicle. Any links?
Are you confusing the DRDO's project on reusable vehicles with brahmos?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby vasu_ray » 27 Jan 2009 11:19

Avinash, on record,

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullst ... wsid=88508

he could have meant or DRDO might realize, it as Avatar too

http://www.hindu.com/2007/02/16/stories ... 201400.htm

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Philip » 27 Jan 2009 11:58

Here is a piece from Asia Times on our missile developments in the sub-continental context.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KA23Df02.html
Last edited by Gerard on 28 Jan 2009 02:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited - copyright

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 27 Jan 2009 14:09

vasu_ray wrote:Avinash, on record,

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullst ... wsid=88508

he could have meant or DRDO might realize, it as Avatar too

http://www.hindu.com/2007/02/16/stories ... 201400.htm

Thanks for the links, Compared to brahmos1 the main difference will be the speed of the missile and i dont think it's being designed as a reusable vehicle.

BrahMos-2 will see design, development of hypersonic missiles: CEO
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 481500.htm

India has embarked on project BrahMos-2, which will see the design and development of hypersonic missiles, according to Dr A. Sivathanu Pillai, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of BrahMos Aerospace.

The hypersonic missiles, will fly at Mach 5-7 speeds ( one Mach is equivalent to velocity of sound or 330 metres per second), Dr Pillai told Business Line here.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Yusuf » 27 Jan 2009 15:57

Rahul M wrote:
saik, different system, different requirements. it's DDM confusing issues as usual.

milan is javelin equivalent, nag is hellfire equivalent. remember unkil forces have


Milan is not an equivalent of Javelin. Milan is a wire guided missile, the Javelin is fire and forget. Nag is touted as a third gen missile.
I dont know why the IA went for the Milan again. Would have been great to get the Javelins. I saw it on probably Discovery Channel, amazing weapon system. Besides our neighbor has it as well.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ajay_ijn » 27 Jan 2009 16:26

Yusuf wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
saik, different system, different requirements. it's DDM confusing issues as usual.

milan is javelin equivalent, nag is hellfire equivalent. remember unkil forces have


Milan is not an equivalent of Javelin. Milan is a wire guided missile, the Javelin is fire and forget. Nag is touted as a third gen missile.
I dont know why the IA went for the Milan again. Would have been great to get the Javelins. I saw it on probably Discovery Channel, amazing weapon system. Besides our neighbor has it as well.

I think what rahul means is Milan n Javelin are light n man portable while Nag was only meant to be launched from Tank destroyers and Helicopters.

It was reported in past that Army rejected Milan ER. So now whole competition to replace these missiles would be between Javelin, AT-14 Kornet and Spike.

wonder why would army order 15000 Konkurs, when there are lotof new ones on offer from Russia like Kornet and Metis.


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